William Dalrymple
While the media has been only too eager to praise India as an emerging superpower, neighbouring Pakistan has been portrayed as a failed state – and the only US ally bombed regularly by Washington. This contrast, Dalrymple said, was a huge exaggeration: India had its own big problems with Naxalite and Maoist insurgents, and Pakistan had an emerging urban middle class, better infrastructure and a proliferation of TV and radio channels.
Though there were huge uncertainties, such as the military’s lingering relationship with the jihadis and the emergence of madrasas funded by Gulf oil wealth, Pakistans religious parties still got a very small proportion of the vote. Despite what the alarmists predict, Pakistan is not about to fall apart.
I just checked and Rajasthan is the sixth poorest state in India; so its not the best example. At any rate I do think that both India and Pakistan teeter on a failed states simply because their in an unsustainable defence race. I think the idea of India being able to match China is somewhat laughable and furthermore I don’t see the point of grand geopolitical gesturing. The McMahon line mirrors a deep civilisation border and if I were an Indian my only real interest would be mutual prosperity.
Prosperity is a virtue, everything else is a distraction. SAARC (its members export to one another a paltry 1.3bn USD) needs to take more of a lead from ASEAN than the EU. I do think Pakistan has been annoying by constantly antagonising India but then again India hasn’t managed Pakistan well so its a double edged sword, which harms both countries as in their inability to resume cricketing ties (makes no sense to play at a neutral venue; defeats the purpose).
China and India will probably stick to the McMahon line (more or less) and Pakistan and India will stick to the Radcliffe line and the LOC (with practically no adjustments). Natural civilizational divide or not (in the case of Radcliffe, i obviously think NOT..my wife is from Ludhiana, Zachary’s family is from UP and I am from Gujrat and I see no good reason to think we are reps of separate civililzations). The crucial thing is to identify where the main levers of change are located.
e.g., the Indian state is fundamentally pro-status quo. It is relatively easy to convince the Indian state (not EVERY Indian, that would be ridiculous and unrealistic) that we can all live in these borders and should open up trade and travel. The Pakistani state has been the difficult element for the last 50 years or so, with its determination to change borders in Kashmir by force. This recourse to force was predominantly conventional in 1965, but has been delegated to “non-state actors” since 1989. That policy has created very serious problems for Pakistan. Change that policy and the rest is doable. Idiots on both sides will remain committed to genocidal ideologies of revenge and conquest, but they will no longer set the agenda.
Zachary, the target is identified.
Go for it.
I think it is obvious that the Radcliffe line was a hastily drawn line in the sand that divided along religious lines rather than ‘civilisational’ lines – sort of like the boundary between The Netherlands and Belgium. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves, trying to justify what was clearly a flawed means of ascribing nationality – religious rather than ethnic/linguistic bonds.
Highways in Pakistan are generally far better than India. The primary reason for that is Pakistan’s decision to invest heavily in highways starting in the mid 80s. It all started with the creation of NLC and need to get things from Karachi to Khyber/Chaman. India stuck with using Railways as the primary large goods transportation system. Pakistan chose to sink it’s Railways so that Army run NLC could profit (now besides original transport business, it is in construction and general tendering). Then we got Nawaz, and the Highways bug caught on.
First, Dalrymple is a douche.
Roads require petroleum to build roads. Pakistan had subsidized oil
since the 60s. If Indian had access to Oil trust me roads would be
paved with gold.
dumbass comparison.
Why don’t you compare ISRO to whatever Pakistan has.
or How about infant mortality, birth control, female education,
disease prevention, drug manufacturing, # of private corporations, # of billionaires,
# of multinational corporations. etc.
What Indians want most is for Pakistan to look West of comparison and forget about India. We are not competinng with you nor do we want to comapre with you.
You can even have Dalrymple Bahudar,
Why is it that Pakistan doesn’t compare itself to China and Saudi Arabia.
They are your friends from the same mother.
Go wild and compare yourself to them.
What you don’t feel good with that comparison. oh What a shame.
Dalrymple loves Pakistan so much, he lives in India.
He’s speaking to a Western audience and trying to inject balance to the debate methinks.
This is one of those things that Pakistanis love to say to console themselves: “We aren’t awesome but hey the Indians aren’t much better off either”. There is a huge cognitive dissonance in Pakistani middle class. Most are unable to reconcile the fact that Indians maybe ahead in spite of their supposedly inferior choice of religion. They fail to see that while religion is never a booster for success, it can be a huge impediment if managed badly.
There are innumerable examples where things are better in Pakistan than in India. But in comparing two states one can’t cherry pick the issues. India with its more socialist bent, invested heavily in railways leading it to expand substantially its rail network after 1947. Pakistan’s meanwhile is in the doldrums. Pakistan invested more in its highways since its leadership was and is pro-rich.
Just as you find the idea of India trying to match China laughable (on which I agree), Pakistan trying to match India is equally laughable!
“Pakistan trying to match India is equally laughable!”
Along which dimension? You did concede that, “there are innumerable examples where things are better in Pakistan than in India.”
Along other metrics, can’t Pakistan catch up with India in per capita terms?
It might help Pakistan that its average IQ is somewhat better than India’s
Though, of course, they’re both countries full of retards.
There are many tragic things about Pakistan, but one of the tragedies is the harshness by which the very metric Pakistan measured itself against, and the narratives it told itself, as to the superiority of Pakistan and in particular, the Muslims of Pakistan over India and specifically the Hindus of India, has been exposed over time. Essentially, you harm yourselves with this fixation. It is crippling.
“It might help Pakistan that its average IQ is somewhat better than India’s”
Wow, what are you smoking, bro? How did you come up with that? Both countries being equally retarded, in a manner of speaking, experimental and sampling biases would play a significant role in explaining the differences (which I highly doubt) in the final stats.
Of course, jokes and biology aside, I would deduct points from Pakistan for pandering to a narrow-minded, intolerant desert cult that specialises in brainwashing its adherents.
Yes of course there are things better in Pakistan than in India. Lower level of poverty, not much of a food shortage for its very poor, smaller population with a more manageable diversity, etc.
And there are plenty of things in India that are better than in China. More transparent rule of law, a robust right to information, much better success at tech innovation amongst private industry, more mature banking system, etc.
But these are cherry pickings! Like the “Roads are better in Pakistan than in India” crap.
About Dalrymple, I agree. His history books are very good reading (last moghal and so on) but his notions about contemporary affairs are very much in the White Liberal Paternalist Bullshit department. I didnt bother to see this particular speech, so cannot comment in detail.
Yup, as I’ve said before, comparing Pakistan and India is like a fight on the short-bus!
Zachary, as long as your self esteem as a Pakistani depends on India’s relations with the rest of the world and how it is perceived, you are doomed.
doom is in the eyes of the beholder. I know many Pakistanis who have been happily complaining about India for decades and given how things are in India, will get opportunities to do so for decades to come. In fact, they joyously complain about the USA, so complaining about India is easy. Whatever turns you on, as they say…
Dalrymple seems to be merely trying to find something positive to pat Paki back about. Just like a wise mother, dealing with a difficult destructive child who gets it from everyone and is developing self esteem issues. A noble effort in my opinion .
+1
My only concern is that he doesn’t need to highlight Pakistan’s positivity at India’s expense. Seems somewhat churlish actually.
To put into perspective: at Independence, West Pakistan was much more affluent than India (and make no mistake, India had and has monumental deprivations, comparable to sub-Saharan levels.)
Pakistan in fact had a higher rate of economic growth till about the early 90′s, when two things happened simultaneously: Economic Reform in India, and the reaching of a certain critical mass of fanaticism in Pakistan.
Since then the trajectories of the two nations have been drastically different …
And likely to diverge further. See deep state representative and top-of-the-line establishment intellectual Humayun Gohar’s latest piece to see why this is almost certain: http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/07/08/comment/columns/friends-not-masters-2/
Its not because he seriously believes in his jihadi crap. He doesnt. Its because he still thinks that is the best BS with which the next military ruler can establish control.
It’s also another propoganda by Pakistani ISI to appoint some western countries media experts to say something good for Pakistan & say something bad for India. Bloody Pakistani Fuck all of You.