“No, I meant someone like Maximillan Tapper [Google]. ”

Yeah, he has an ambiguous look,not the typical afro-American.A bit like Dwayne Johnson(half Afro-American and half Samoan).

“Some Mestizo’s may look like Bangladeshis, but I wouldn’t really use the word “overlap”. Too many of them have this strong Native American [“Brown Oriental”] look. It would be fairly easy for me to distinguish them from Bangladeshis.”

Thats why i said “some”. For example most of these Bolivian Mestizo women can easily pass as Bangladeshi, if they wear Saree or Salwar Kameez:
https://byhisgrace52.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/bolivia-2008-2-036.jpg
In comparison with these Mestizo women from Belize, who clearly look “Brown Oriental” and can’t pass as Bangladeshi :
https://www.belizehub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Mestizo-Culture-of-Belize.jpg

No, I meant someone like Maximillan Tapper [Google]. He was on an episode of The Wire, and he looks utterly identical to one of my cousins. So much so, that I had to ring him up and ask if he had a small bit part on TW that he didn’t tell us about [my cousin that is, not the actor obviously].

African-Americans are diverse looking, so there really isn’t a single “phenotype” that fits them perfectly. Even “redbones” are quite distinguished from the more “Bantu-looking” ones. But yes, I wasn’t thinking of your typical light-skinned African-American, who still look noticeably “African”. Only certain ones.

In any case, I don’t see much point in saying that we would look like “African Americans” [as opposed to some African Americans looking like us in certain ways], in this particular instance. Hence it makes sense to me that Kashmiris would say “wogs look like us”, as opposed to the other way around.

Some Mestizo’s may look like Bangladeshis, but I wouldn’t really use the word “overlap”. Too many of them have this strong Native American [“Brown Oriental”] look. It would be fairly easy for me to distinguish them from Bangladeshis.

“i think they are people who came from somewhere else during british india period. only explanation for why they have ~0 east asian, which is present among west bengalis too (albeit lower fractions)”

Did you mean those few BEB sampls that clustered with south Indian Dalits? Yeah, they probably came from somewhere else or could be some local group that followed a strict endogamy.

Btw I didnt referred only them for 1000genome BEB, in MDLP project K16 modern calculator’s spreadsheet there are two types of bengalis, one labelled as Bengali(they are 1000genome BEB IIRC) the other is labelled as Dhaka.The former scored ~70% Indian, ~16% east Asian and only 0-1% Steppe/Caucasus/NEEuro compared to Dhaka average that scored ~56% Indian, 19% east Asian and ~10% Steppe/Caucasus/NEEuro.I clustered with Dhaka average in that calculator.
Both scored east Asian so they are bengalis, but there are significant differences in Steppe/Caucasus/NEEuro and in Indian percentage.

These factors could be due to social class endogamy?

i think they are people who came from somewhere else during british india period. only explanation for why they have ~0 east asian, which is present among west bengalis too (albeit lower fractions)

“in the 1000 genomes there are a small # of people who look like south indian dalits in the BEB samples. by their sample IDs they also look like they were collected at the same location and probably time. i don’t know who these people would be, but thought i’d put that out there”

IIRC in some gedmatch calculator(precisely MDLP) they used 1000genome BEB bengali as Bengali reference, but BEB bengalis scored lower east Asian, higher Indian and almost none Steppe/Caucasus, but the bengalis i know scored lower Indian, higher east Asian and significant steppe/Caucasus compared to them.
Even though there is not any caste endogamy in Bangladesh, there still exist social classes. During marriage time parents look for the family background and their prestige.
Also there are certain facial features typical in middle or upper classes but rare in lower classes.
These factors could be due to social class endogamy?

@Bmoney
“Tajiks have higher NE Euro and higher NE Asian/Mongoloid influence. Pashtuns have lower NE Euro higher ASI higher ANI (Iran_neolithic), higher SW Asian (Arab influence) higher Caucasian. What does this translate to? Pashtuns overall look more Iranian than Tajiks, who probably look more like the original Indo-Europeans. Also Pashtuns have bigger features and more facial hair in general.”

Maybe you are right. Pashtuns are more diverse., but in this paper their ASI is 30% : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/bin/mmc1.pdf
Thats why i said same as Punjabis(for example Jatts).
Another case is Haryana Jatts with their 20% NE Euro(same as Tajiks) and lesser ASI than Punjabis,but they look more Indian than Punjabis.

“Gujaratis have less ASI (depends on caste) but definitely 2-3x more Steppe ancestry than south Indian middle castes even if Neolithic Iran ancestry which you have alluded to is around the same levels, which would explain phenotypical difference. Also endogamy as you said.”

By Gujrati averagei I meant GujratiA in Harappadna spreadsheet or Patel Gujratis, the upper caste are equivalent to Brahmins, so they form a different cluster. GujratiA scores only 1-2% NE euro/Caucasian and the rest is same as south Indian mid-caste.

“Your particular family might not look obvious stereotypical East Asian as such, but the East Asian admixture levels would be several levels higher than a West India Gujarati for example (for which it is about 0%), and this combination would bring about the Bengali ‘look’ distinct compared to other south Asians. For example I grew up with a lot of Bangladeshis, and they can tell other Bangladeshis from looking at them. The only person who was routinely confused for a Bengali was a Nepali girl we knew, who I assume would have similar levels of NE Asian admixture
Also regarding caste system – as you mentioned i don’t think caste based endogamy existed in Bengal outside the West Bengal Brahmins. People from Bangladesh have no history of caste and are largely homogenous, which is unique in South Asia. Though Bengalis have told me people from Sylhet have a distinct look, perhaps more NE Asian ancestry
”

Yes, i scored same East Asian as Bengali average, ~12%(or 14-15% including siberian).
There are few samples that scored up to 19% IIRC.
I’ve seen some sylhetis results, they scored same east Asian as bengali average.
The only bengalis with significant difference i’ve seen were 1000genome BEB Bengalis, who score lower east Asian, higher Indian and 0% to very minor steppe/caucasus.
My question was why my family members have no east Asian influence, but some of them look almost west Asian,thats true for bengalis in general, who dont have any east Asian features.I already got the answer from Razib Khan.

and yes i was surprised too. i had assumed that the gene flow from east asia was continuous and ppl would have a high range of values. but as it is it looks like geography is the only thing that predicts….

I was very surprised when i saw how homogenous(in term of consistent amount of ANI,ASI & east Asian) we bengalis are.

in the 1000 genomes there are a small # of people who look like south indian dalits in the BEB samples. by their sample IDs they also look like they were collected at the same location and probably time. i don’t know who these people would be, but thought i’d put that out there

(also, i think one of the BEB samples is half bengali-brahmin genetically)

“plenty of my family members (cousins, etc.) look very east asian. one of my 2nd cousins works in malaysia, and malays assume she is one of them, and not an indian (who are mostly tamil).”

When I didnt know nothing about Bengali’s genetic, I had thought bengalis “genetically” would be very diverse, the reason was the diversity we have, not many homogenous ethnic group has such diversity within people that can look almost West Asian to almost Tribal to almost east Asian.I was very surprised when i saw how homogenous(in term of consistent amount of ANI,ASI & east Asian) we bengalis are.

“traits may be influenced by small # of genes so sampling variance is a major issue.”

Make sense, I suppose in future these issues will be more clear with further samples and researches.

“I dont know how the DNA influences the morphology of a person or a community. In my case it seems the east Asian percentage i scored didnt affected me or my family members, even none of my nearest relatives have any east Asian influence.
The most surprising fact is the Genotype-Phenotype relation in Afghan Pashtuns and Afghan Tajiks.The former cluster with NW south Asians(upper caste) and the latter dont, yet morphologically they are indistinguishable.”

It does influence, but its more subtle and sometimes barely noticeable. Tajiks have higher NE Euro and higher NE Asian/Mongoloid influence. Pashtuns have lower NE Euro higher ASI higher ANI (Iran_neolithic), higher SW Asian (Arab influence) higher Caucasian. What does this translate to? Pashtuns overall look more Iranian than Tajiks, who probably look more like the original Indo-Europeans. Also Pashtuns have bigger features and more facial hair in general.

“Pashtuns are fair skinned and Punjabis are brown skinned.” Pashtuns are a mixed lot, look at Pakistani cricketer Fakhar Zaman, who is darker than many Sikh/Hindu Punjabis I have met.

Overall though Pashtuns have 1/3 or more less ASI ancestry than Punjabis on average even if it still is at 20%, and this will make a huge phenotypic difference as the ASI are a very distinct population from everyone else in South and Central Asia.