No Muslim actors please; we’re Hindu..

I’m shocked that not a single Muslim star features in the shot.

I wrote a long emotional rant, which I deleted; I’m shocked. The cultural genocide of Urdu continues apace when Islam should be the common enemy.

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Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

Alia bhatt is half Muslim.

Also no South Indian actors. #stophindiimpositin #dravidanadu

S. T. Silva
S. T. Silva
5 years ago

Without Islam, what distinguishes “Urdu” from “Hindi”? Also, doesn’t the vast majority of “Urdu”-speakers care *way* more about being Muslim than about speaking “Urdu”?

S. T. Silva
S. T. Silva
5 years ago

Sure there’s “Urdu literature” (though Khusro was a little more awesome that I’d have expected, thanks), but I thought that, given that the vocabulary diverges mostly for “big words”, that most (e.g.) “Urdu poetry” would become accessible to “Hindi speakers” as soon as it was written with Devanagari script (assumed: Islam’s dead), and vice-versa for the “Urdu speakers” learning Devanagari. Wrong?

उद्ररुहैन्वीय

I think you may be under-estimating Hindi (by which you mean modern “Sanskritized” Hindi) poetic literature.

But it is true that it’s much younger than Urdu (again defined as including Hindostani register) and with less literature – in terms of size – generally.

Anyway, the term “Hindi” now actually includes a lot of Urdu and the entirety of Hindostani in India. In other words, it does not reflect tatsama (that-same Sanskrit) lexicon only.

Basically, what has happened in India is a re-labelling of the same language some people (incl most Pakistanis) would call Urdu as Hindi.

Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

Slapstik is correct. Growing up on Bollywood and its surrounding ecosystem you would be forgiven to think that “Hindi” is really a poor cousin/poor man’s Urdu. It s only when i read more in Hindi literature and stuff i had a feeling that Hindi (not the heavily urdu-ized one) can still hold its own in terms of original ideas and thoughts. You can give it a try if you are interested and know how to read Devanagari.

Konkaneya
Konkaneya
5 years ago

Amir Khusro wrote in “Hindavi” as well as Persian, but not Urdu [though one may call it a predecessor, in the same way Awadhi and Brajbhasha are of Hindi]. His Hindavi verse would be more understandable to a typical Hindi speaker than a typical Urdu speaker of current times. In Zihal-E-Miskin, he in fact alternates between Hindavi and Persian in each line, and there is a clear language switch in alternate lines [there is no borrowing of Hindavi words into Persian and vice-versa] – which indicates that there was a clear distinction and line between the two and borrowing of Persian words was at a very low extent. Arguably, it was Persian which was the High language [royal correspondence, edicts, courts] and not Urdu. Both Shivaji and Guru Gobind Singh wrote their famous letters to Aurangzeb in Persian, not Urdu or Deccani etc. Even the language of the Mughal Court and East India Company was Persian , only replaced by Urdu at the end of the 18th century. The first use of the term Urdu , as per most sources, is also in this period. That would make it at best a 100 years older than Hindi [though certainly both have older predecessors]

Arjun
Arjun
5 years ago

“Comparing Urdu to Hindi is a lot like comparing Shakespeare to Pidgin..”

lol. pot. kettle. black. before accusing others of bigotry zaraa apne girebaan mein jhaankiye huzoor.

Arjun
Arjun
5 years ago

What I meant is that you are welcome to your admiration of Urdu (I share it) but the casual dismissal of Hindi as “Pidgin” is … shall we say a bit … cavalier ?

Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

Lol. just saw Zac’s tweet trying to goad Nida Kirmani out of islam

Prats
Prats
5 years ago

Urdu is as useless today as the English Shakespeare used with its highly convoluted ways of saying simple things.
No one goes around saying “thou” and “dost” and stuff. People use street terms like “y’all”.

I am not sure Urdu will be able to keep up even in Pakistan. What is the Urdu term for computer? Is it used even in official communication?
We used to have a ‘Sanganak Vibhaag’ in college.

The future belongs to Hinglish with adequate ‘Urdu’ borrowings.

I’d recommend a trip to Benaras-Allahabad in case you want to get disabused of the notion that Hindi is not a high language.

Also, someone here mentioned Awadhi as a predecessor of Hindi. Don’t think that’s accurate.

Awadhi developed parallel to khadi boli and has a much more glorious past. It used to be the language of poetry in the north more so than either Hindu and Urdu.

Both Hindi and Urdu get far too much attention because they were spoken around Delhi. Much of the rest of the country doesn’t care.

Kabir
5 years ago
Reply to  Prats

Urdu will do just fine in Pakistan (unless you are talking about the purely literary variety of the language). It is the lingua franca of the entire country and anyone who has been to school can read and write it. A language that helps 200 million people to communicate with each other can hardly be called “useless”.

Computer in Urdu is computer. Not sure why this is a problem though. Languages adopt words from other languages all the time.

Prats
Prats
5 years ago
Reply to  Kabir

By Urdu I meant the kind of high register Zac was referring to.
Normal people talk in Hindustani which is increasingly becoming Hinglish or whatever you people call it in Pakistan.

Santosh
Santosh
5 years ago
Reply to  Kabir

Tamil and English in Chennai or rather Tanglish and English?

Santosh
Santosh
5 years ago
Reply to  Kabir

Of course that’s why it’s called Tanglish register and not just another type of English but the thing is that whatever Tamil they speak in Chennai or in any urban centre (which there are a lot in Tamil Nadu) (and increasingly in rural areas), is exactly identically like Hinglish (and Tenglish, Kanglish, Manglish, Benglish, Marathi-lish, etc.- god these all names sound so awful to the ears!), which I’m sure you don’t really dislike lol. And this process cannot be reversed and it does not have as much bad history as people perhaps imagine, I think, because most of this Anglicisation of the spoken language has happened after Independence and taken place at least significantly under the aegis of people’s will (though of an unconscious/subconscious kind and not conscious).

Kabir
5 years ago

Linguists consider “Urdu” and “Hindi” to be two registers of the same language, Hindustani. Languages are defined by their grammar and Urdu and Hindi are grammatically identical. There are vocabulary differences, but not enough to make them different languages. For political reasons, the Sankritized version of the language is called Hindi and the Persianized version is called Urdu. The different scripts are the main issue.

“Islam should be the common enemy”– There is a difference between Islamism and Islam. An entire religion being an “enemy” makes zero sense to me.

Kabir
5 years ago

An entire religion cannot be an “enemy”. This is ridiculous. If someone said “Hinduism” or “Christianity” is the enemy, those would be equally bizarre statements.

AnAn
5 years ago
Reply to  Kabir

+1008 Kabir.
Awesome comment. I agree with all of it. I mean for real. [Zack, many of my favorite people in the world are muslim . . . . 😉 many of my favorite spiritual masters from the past too.]

A question if I might. When you say “Persianized”, what version of Pharsi are you referring to?

I would love to learn ancient Farsi and ancient Avesta. Sigh. Sadly I am not the wise Slapstik.

Honestly Urdu and Hindi sound the same to me. Maybe because I “LOVE” me some Shia and Sufi (including Kabir) devotional songs and try to research the meaning of Persianized Urdu words in the songs. Is the difference between them analogous in some fashion to the difference between Brazilian Portuguese and Portugal Portuguese?

Kabir
5 years ago
Reply to  AnAn

I meant that there are two registers of Hindustani. The Sanskritized one is called “Hindi” and the Persianized one is called “Urdu”.

The languages sound the same to you because they are basically the same. If you use more Persian and Arabic words, you are speaking Urdu. If you use more Sanskrit based words, you are speaking Hindi. Ultimately, they are only classified as separate languages for political reasons. The fact that they are written in totally different scripts is an issue, but script is not language.

Kabir
5 years ago
Reply to  AnAn

A language can be written using different scripts, does that make it a different language? Urdu can be written using the Roman alphabet, but the vocabulary and grammar remains Urdu.

Bharotshontan
Bharotshontan
5 years ago

When I was a toddler/kid, my older cousins used to tease me asking “Who’s your favorite, Shah Rukh Khan or Govinda”.

I used to reply Govinda. In later years as a kid, I kept being reminded that my initial choice was Govinda not SRK lol.

As a grown adult, I reflect on why intrinsically I must have liked Govinda over a Shah Rukh Khan. I mean, Govinda is so sweet sounding and is literally the name of Shri Krishna. On other hand, a name like Shah Rukh Khan falls in the same category as the early dawn braying of the azaan, it must be an epigenetic memory embedded into us nice Hindus of the terror of skull mountains by everyone from Timur to Ajmal Kasab.

I for one support Hindu actors only. Think why blacks are pulling down statues of Confederate generals and Ku Klux Klan riders all over America. Why should the surviving ex dhimmis care for Muslim celebs? Scales of genocide are similar…

Bharotshontan
Bharotshontan
5 years ago

How are the irreligious Muslim actors of Bollywood in any way the sole upholders of Urdu high culture in Bollywood? I’d say the lyricist Gulzar is the only one fit for that title and Gulzar is Hindu.

Actors just read scripts. They’ll play Hindu Muslim Jat Dalit anything you want them to, Priyanka Chopra even played the role of a mongoloid boxer from Manipur lol.

Konkaneya
Konkaneya
5 years ago

One cannot presume that they were explicitly excluded without further evidence – its not as if Modi has not posed with Muslim celebrities before [e.g Salman Khan and him had publicly flown kites once]. Moreover, its a self-composed delegation that met him, rather than it being a set of people chosen by him, the PMO or the ministry. Its possible that they themselves chose not to be a part of the delegation, whether to avoid controversy or criticism or otherwise, as is their prerogative [this had happened during the Netanyahu Bollywood meet as well – when Imtiaz Ali and someone else were the only Muslims who attended]

Konkaneya
Konkaneya
5 years ago

The key distinction that I wished to point out is that [without further evidence] when a delegation from business/industry meets a person X [rather than the person or his office inviting a list of guests], it is the delegation that would be assumed to have decided the composition [in the absence of evidence to the contrary].
The equivalence you pointed out would indeed hold IMO if one could show that Modi or his PMO pre-selected these actors to meet him , which at the moment there is no particular evidence to suggest given it was a delegation. There is no record of Modi not having posed with Muslim celebrities [Salman Khan and Irfan Pathan being prime examples]

Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

I would not say deliberate though, Modi desperately needs as much good press as he can have now, and I dont think his base really minds a photo or two with the Khans and all. For all you know, it could really be the other way round considering the Muslims actors no more need to kowtow to Modi considering he doesn’t seem as invincible politically as he used to.

AnAn
5 years ago

Zack wrote:

“The Indian Muslim community in India needs to sharpen up; ditch Islam, keep Urdu and be less ghettoised.”
I assume you have been joking about this recently. How is “Islam” defined.

“I would ban the Azaan except for maybe 5 minutes on Friday Jummah as a cute cultural token. Also I would enforce strict Azaan regulations ..” This has got to be a joke.

You realize that many of the mosques are visited by Hindus, paid for by Hindus, built by Hindus. Many of the largest muslim centers in India are visited by more nonmuslims than muslims. Including Shirdi, Ajmer, Nizamuddin Auliya, Kabir, virtually all Sufi places and Irfan Shia (Sufi) places.

Hindus and Hinduttva would revolt against a rule like this. The BJP is deeply dependent on the support of twelvers, sixers, sufis, ahmedis, liberals, muslim femnist females. Many of their political leaders are muslim. No way in the world the BJP would ever risk losing their muslim base.

Remember many Hinduttva want to promote what they call Hindu muslims or Swadeshi muslims or Bharatiya muslims (or any other phrase you prefer). And incorporate Indian Islam into themselves. Why would they risk this?

What you can say is:
—all Azaan singers must be super high quality
—all Azaan sound systems must be super high quality
—all Azaans for various mosques in a specific area need to be coordinated so that they don’t conflict with each other
—volume should be within reasonable limits (versus allow the volume of Azaans to be much higher than the volume from non-Islamic spiritual centers)

Heck I think that Kabir and most Indian conservative Sunnis would agree with the above. Too bad no one in India has to courage to propose anything like this other than a few Indian muslims.

Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

Some woke folks on twitter are disappointed with Mr Sindh (Padmavaat controversy) and Ms Bhatt for not showing any spine unlike their wife and father respectively, by boycotting Modi. With Rajkumar Rao too since they felt their original hero Nawazudin has ditched them by playing Thackrey

AnAn
5 years ago

Zack, Modi would be outraged by being called anti-Islam. Many of this best friends are muslims. For real.

Modi publicly eulogizes Mohammed pbuh as a great prophet and spiritual master. In a way that appeals to minority muslims and liberal muslims but apparently offends Islamists and some conservative Sunnis.

Modi is a spiritual and religious man of the sarva dharma sarva sresht sarva bhaava mold. The head Swami of the Ramakrishna organization (which believes all religions are true) turned down Modi’s request to become a monk. Modi would never criticize Islam. It is haram for almost all orders of Hindus to do this. [Yeah I know Ajivikas and Chaarvaakas and a couple others might criticize Islam.]

Zack, Hindus deeply frown on any criticism of spiritual masters no matter the religion.

उद्ररुहैन्वीय

// But why was there a need for Devanagari; we could have had a Sanskrit-Urdu formula that supplanted English… //

Well, devanAgarI is a surely a better script for Urdu (or Hindi or whatever you choose to label the language as), no? It is mapped better to local phonetic inventory. And very easily extendable to the gutturals /q/, /gh/, fricative /x/ and voiced sibilant /z/ – the four main consonantal phonemes in Urdu that occur in borrowed words. The rest like /ayn/, /sawd/, /dawd/, /zhe/ etc are all remapped, i.e. have no new phonetic value in Urdu.

E.g. no Urdu speaker actually pronounces the glottal stop /ayn/ in ‘arab (let alone whether Urdu speakers can at all). So, no need for extra symbols beyond the 4.

Besides, unlike Arabic – which is based on the system of tri-consonantal roots where vowels are secondary – Urdu is an IE language and marking of vowels/diphthongs is very necessary. For that reason again devanAgarI trumps Nastaliq.

The only reason why a Muslim would not like the idea of writing in devanAgarI is religion (or some sort of quasi-religious cultural hangover). The symbols remind Muslims of Arabic. And the written word carries much more emotional significance in orthodox Islamic culture than it does in orthodox Hindu – where spoken word reigns supreme. The central canon of Hinduism is called shruti (that which is heard) for a reason. And bad pronunciation is the cardinal sin in Sanskritic high culture.

Humans of course make decisions based on much more than plain utilitarian calculus. But I think India’s choice of devanAgarI over Nastaliq is as much a result of Muslim separatism as a cause of it. The majority of Urdu-speaking Muslims were not interested, until very recently using fora like rekhta.org, in trying to win over Indians to the Urdu cause with love and a sense of belonging. The camaraderie did happen in some niche sub-cultures within UP, but never really at a scale to reach a popular tipping-point. Much of the Urdu culture remained exclusive and exclusionary in the run up to the Partition.

उद्ररुहैन्वीय

// Latin alphabet suits Chinese better than its own script //

LOL now that’s a thought 🙂

Positive advertisement is always better than negative advertisement. Though I think either way, English is going to be the top dog in India. The age of elves and hobbits is over….

Snake Charmer
Snake Charmer
5 years ago

// Latin alphabet suits Chinese better than its own script //

Banish the thought. Mandarin is a tonal language. There are as many as 5 different tones for a single syllable, each having a different meaning. It will be chaos!

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
5 years ago

Few years ago I started a project with a girl from Taiwan (left unfinished) to write Chinese texts in Serbian phonetic alphabet. This alphabet is the simplest in the world, 1 letter=1 sound, and anyone can learn to read Serbian without mistake in 5 minutes. Four-five years old kids in Serbia can read texts without complicated scientific words. There are 30 letters but could be accommodated for specific Chinese voices. This thing could provide opportunities to foreigners to quickly learn to read Chinese and simply use a dictionary. It would be easier for Chinese, too, because they could also quickly learn to read instead of spending years to learn to read (and draw) thousands of signs.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
5 years ago

PS. On my first view of the photo I was thinking that it was taken in Serbia. Two guys from his right and especially a girl from his left are some of typical faces. Moreover, one of these guys is showing a Serbian saluting sign (three fingers).

AnAn
5 years ago

“which is why all Urdu-lovers must call out against the cult of the Holy Pedophile..”

Innocent question. What are you referring to? Is this part of a multi-level multi-layered long term Murshid Jagguji type performance?

Do you believe that the account of Sahih Bukhari (second holiest book of Islam) is 100% factually accurate? You know that many muslims (twelvers, sixers, secretly many Sufis) are not sure that Hazrat Aisha really had a profound romantic physically generated event when she was 9. Many muslims believe she was older. Or that she was referring to some type of mystical transcendent meditative samadhi kundalini orgasmic experience that was not physical coitus with the holy prophet, PBUH. Or an astral or causal projection event.

Disputes over whether this event happened or not are a major reason that the great Islamic civil war started in 632 AD and has lasted 14 centuries. A civil war where Islamists have killed over 100 million moderate muslims.

Zach, surely Báb and Bahá’u’lláh would not blindly follow the conservative Islamist Sunni line 100% against the minority muslims, liberal sunnis, femnist sunnis and atheist sunnis? If they don’t, then why should we?

Snake Charmer
Snake Charmer
5 years ago

“The only reason why a Muslim would not like the idea of writing in devanAgarI is religion (or some sort of quasi-religious cultural hangover). The symbols remind Muslims of Arabic.”

Kind of agree, but there are counter examples too. Remember, East Bengal Muslims revolted, violently, against the very same Arabic letters. Turks of Turkey willingly decommissioned these letters from their language.

So, it is kinda complex.

random
random
5 years ago

But others (Hindus) should definitely write in a script that came from Arabia and is inferior to their own native scripts.
Or at the very least, accept infusion of Perso Arabic words when perfectly good native words exist.

VijayVan
5 years ago

Switching to a different script , as long as it is adequate for the language, is a good idea as it signals looking at the world through different glasses as it were and removes one of the ever present reminder of the cultural burden and overload.

उद्ररुहैन्वीय
Reply to  Snake Charmer

Really!? That is news to me!

AnAn
5 years ago
Reply to  Snake Charmer

Snake Charmer at his finest!

AnAn
5 years ago

Zach, honestly who cares? The world has real problems. Kids are starving in Africa. Who cares about a picture with a bunch of movie stars, models and entertainers? Seriously?

This is a crowd that caters to self absorbed teenage girls with 16 million instagram followers who have zero content or substance. Whose followers love to watch them eat bananas.

This is not high Islamicate syncretic culture or Bharatiya culture or pan Arya (Iranic/Turan/SAARC/South East Asian) culture. Who cares about this “culture”?

Why worry about surface level passing clouds? Isn’t Brown Pundits about deep intuition (Vijnayamaya Kosha) and deep feeling (Ananda Maya Kosha) stuff?
__________________________________________________________

Bharotshontan, I have seen speeches by Shah Rukh Khan and am deeply impressed by his sterling intellect and character. [Trust me, I am not as impressed by the large majority of “hot” actresses and actors.] I love and admire the way Shah Rukh Khan is letting his wife remain a proudly practicing Hindu and raising his own kids as practicing Hindus. If this isn’t the model for syncretic high Islamicate culture, or Hindu Islam; then I don’t know what is.

India’s 240 million muslims are leading the global reformation and modernization of Islam. The entire world should be extremely grateful to them and proud of them. It is no exaggeration to say that Indian muslims are saving the entire world from burning down. Inshallah Indian Islam will move from perfection to perfection. Now and always.

Bharotshontan
Bharotshontan
5 years ago

I liked SRK over Govinda by the time I got in my senses lol, I was just making a comment on the innate sensation of phobia just from a name…

I think rickshawala looking SRK became popular in the 90s due to acting talent and for the first time Bollywood got a rickshawala looking Indian male as prime protagonist unlike the Amitabh or Dev Anand or Raj Kapoor’s of the yesteryears. The rickshawala masses of IndoPak loved seeing one of their own getting to fawn over gori gori heroines for the first time.

Then SRK pulled a Sammy Sosa in the 2000s. I lost respect for him since. You can’t have rode to success on back of your rickshawala looks and then turn around promote light supremacy to compete with upstarts like Hrithik. I knew when SRK started the bleaching cream ads, the rickshawala masses were going to get the message “we can become white and beautiful also”. The man promoted something toxic when he was in prime position to reverse it.

Akshat
Akshat
5 years ago

This is absolute nonsense.
Traditionally Muslim actors – Shahrukh, Salman and Aamir — have LED bollywood. And they have also many times been welcomed and greeted by Modi.
The reason why you don’t see them is because they just happened not to be there. And plus their time is over. All three of them are greying, and perhaps for the first time in 20 years none of them had a hit in 2018.

Dont read abuse into anything and everything.

Saurav
Saurav
5 years ago

Oh come on. Fahad is decent actor not some true heir to anything. Most of the hype is due to his looks and look where hrithik is today

Konkaneya
Konkaneya
5 years ago

Ranveer Singh is a much more plausible successor [if there really is something like that] [long string of successes from 2013 onwards – this is when even Fawad was active, not that Fawad is not a strong actor] right into current times. Another one could be Ayushmann Khurana [everything he’s touched since 2013 except Meri Pyari Bindu has turned to gold pretty much – Vicky Donor, Dum Laga Ke Haisha right down till Badhai Ho]

Hrithik was certainly as or more popular than Fawad, except in a different time period – specifically in the 1999-2010 period – the craze about him post Kaho Naa Pyar Hai was phenomenal – he was just super-picky with his movies which hurt him.

Akshat
Akshat
5 years ago

Fahad is just good looking. Ranbir and Ranveer have some real mettle and a body of good work behind them.
They shall be taking up the khanate mantle (or have already!)

Vikram
5 years ago

Its a bit saddening to see that Pakistanis are more obsessed with Indian cinema rather than developing their own industry. I cant think of any other country that acts this way. In fact, there are states within India that curb Hindi cinema (via taxes, discriminatory laws or outright bans) so that their own cinema gets more space.

Are Pakistanis that uninterested in their own stories ?

Kabir
5 years ago

I think you are confusing religion and nationalism. Even Pakistanis who “disavow” Islam are not necessarily going to be India’s allies.

As for India being “anti-Islam”, being anti 14% of your own citizens seems counterproductive.

Kabir
5 years ago

You realize the Pakistan Movement was about the concerns of British Indian Muslims and not just Urdu right?

Your remarks about the Prophet of God and Hazrat Aisha are needlessly offensive. All I can say is that 21st century standards of behavior cannot be applied to the 7th century.

Kabir
5 years ago

It is ahistorical to apply 21st century standards to the 7th century. Girls were married off young at that time. There is some debate about whether their marriage was consummated before she reached puberty or not.

“Cultural Muslim” does not mean that the Prophet of God or his wives should be disrespected. That’s not going to win you any friends or lead to any kind of meaningful dialogue.

Your views on Islam are hardly the model of “liberalism”. In fact, they read like a right-wing screed. “Garbage religion” indeed. Do you even read what you post?

Kabir
5 years ago

I am not avoiding the question. For the millionth time, 21st century standards cannot be applied to the 7th century. Until fairly recently in history, children were considered adults when they reached puberty. Marrying a young girl is illegal and immoral today, but we are talking about people who lived in 7th century Arabia.

I’m not going to argue about Islam with you anymore. Your views are irrational and needlessly offensive. Being “liberal” doesn’t mean I will consent to having my religion abused.

Kabir
5 years ago

I’m a Cultural Muslim. But that doesn’t mean that I go around abusing the Prophet of God. I consider that disrespectful and gratuitous.

I don’t know where you get “venom towards India” from. I despise Hindutva, but so do many Indians. Political differences with India (Kashmir etc) doesn’t mean I don’t have a great affinity with our shared syncretic North Indian culture.

At this point, it is better not to dignify the things you are saying about the Prophet of God with a response. The stuff you are writing is disgusting.

Kabir
5 years ago

Luckily I don’t need you to certify my “Cultural Muslim” status. This is like when you asked Nida Kirmani if she had left Islam. You are not the authority that gets to determine these things for other people. I’m hardly conservative, so your attempts at psychoanalysis fail miserably.

I was taught not to talk smack about other people’s religions.

I have no “venom” towards India. Hindutva is not India. Having political differences (as most Pakistanis do) is not “venom”. Unless you are now taking the position that anyone who doesn’t like the Modi regime is an anti-national?

Let’s just leave it here. I have no more time for this bigotry.

Kabir
5 years ago

Haha! Advancing a “Muslim agenda”– that’s laughable.

If being against the Modi regime is being “anti-India”, fine. But that’s your ideosyncratic definition.

Kabir
5 years ago

That picture is the problem with Modi? Not the fact that he was Chief Minister during the Gujarat pogroms? OK….

Brown Pundits