“Uh, no. The vast majority of time the Indus and Ganges regions were united politically was under Muslim rule (post 1200). Prior to that, they shared 150 years under the Maurya’s (which originated in the Indus valley, not the Ganges), and about 90 years together under the Guptas. That’s it. Most of the time these regions were separate (dating back to 3300 BC, birth of the IVC).”

The Vedic period (1500 BC to 500 BC) was an era of small kingdoms constantly warring and marrying into each other. The rest of the time periods you mentioned happen to coincide with when North India was united politically. You don’t think that period in history is significant?

The IVC included parts of the Ganga-Yamuna doab and all of Gujarat. The current inhabitants of the Deccan (especially the elites) have genetic affinity to the Rakhigari samples.

Like it or not, the Indus region and the rest of the subcontinent are closely linked. Are Punjabis Indian? Well, is Obama Black?

I think we’re talking past each other. I was trying to make a simple point about how when there are very small numbers of Desis in a given place, they shop, eat, congregate in similar places (and work in similar places too if they’re not white collar). A wider sense of community, however lose, seems to be a thing. It’s ephemeral though — past critical mass, we retreat back to our own subgroups and don’t mix as much.

SP, can you share the cities that you speak of?

This is news to me.

You don’t find Desis collaborating together in I Banking, Consulting, Asset Management, Corporate Management, Technology, Venture Capital, entrepreneurship, non liberal arts academia, business associations?

Thanks for sharing.

Elites mix everywhere, my point was somewhat different. Do these well-heeled Pakistani Americans you referred to seek out other Desis in particular, or are the just as comfortable with them as they are with anyone of similar social standing? I was referring to a sense of community that transcends the national boundaries of the subcontinent. I experienced no such thing in the decade + I spent on the east coast. It might have existed in the past when there were fewer browns, but I get no strong sense of it having persisted. Pratyush was referring to Paris, and it’s definitely a thing there, and it transcends class, cos there’s just not enough of us to be picky.

I don’t know about the US but Indian urban youngsters may not be very global, at least in smaller cities like Hyderabad. I am actually forced to be kinda liberal and global-like in my thinking in my most closeted mindspace because of the way I was born and my natural, evil psychological inclination, and all of this I absolutely detest lol. Every Indian person in India seems more Indian to me than myself (and I don’t like that at all; it’s so unfair of God for making me this way lol). I cannot envy enough how all of my male cousins are all so Indian-stoic-male: generation-neverending-n^N copies of their fathers lol.

What! Seriously Saurav. I have never seen this. I am completely out of touch.

Where is this happening?

Very perceptive. High School and undergraduate SAARC ancestry kids are on another planet!

Many have deep contempt for their parent’s culture, civilization, religion, Asia, Asians etc. Many speak and think in very post modernist cultural marxist “woke” SWJ ways.

Many also have a lot of guilt over their privilege and the way they think Asians have oppressed people of color minorities and poor people.

SP, I think it “IS” generally a thing in the US.

Pakistani American muslims are liberal, are rich, and mix well with other SAARC people. Anecdotally many appear to be Sufi or Irfan. [Wonder if there is survey data on this?]

The UK is different. Indians want to distinguish themselves from Pakistanis in part because of under age molestation, rape, murder, violent assault, terrorism scandals.

I feel closer to folks 10 years older than me, i do to someone who is 3 years younger to me.

@SP @Saurav

Do you also see a dis-atomization in the second gen as they coalesce around more of a ‘People of Colour/South Asian’ identity