Islam encourages rage-

I can’t understand the video or what Tommy Robinson was telling the young Asian Man.

But this propensity for violence and rage is a feature, not a bug, of the Ummah.

For instance when we have friends over; I am always a little tense when male friends of Pakistan/Muslim descent are speaking to Vidhi. I can notice they are simply not used to be intellectually challenged by opinionated women.

I’m extremely comfortable and very relaxed when it’s a Hindu. But I can’t ask V to modulate or moderate her tone simply because it makes other people uncomfortable.

Regardless of what Tommy Robinson was telling the Asian chap in the video; there’s no excuse to throw a drink on him. It just shows that it’s a culture that simply isn’t used to dissenting opinions.

As an aside I’ve be accused of generalising, which is what I am doing. This is not an academic blog but simply a forum for opinions mixed with a bit of fact. I’m relaying my own life experiences and speaking truth to power.

Islam has many problems and what I dislike is what its liberal advocates don’t want to address the issues clearly. I’m not an outsider to Islam; I’m hyper-familiar with it and I was a long-term ally (I assumed it could be fixed). However what has disillusioned me is that I don’t even think that “liberal Muslims” think that Islam needs to be fixed.

Most of the same liberal Muslims watching the above clip, rather than feel shame over the young boy’s actions, will instead roundly condemn Tommy Robinson. Instead the onus should be on why there is a Muslim underclass and as to why it feels the need to act on rage.

The paradigm in the Hindu community is entirely different where its blistering economic success means that it can now engage and challenge mainstream society.

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31 Replies to “Islam encourages rage-”

  1. This isn’t about Islamic culture, its about how most people respond to being insulted right to their face.

    These kind of bait videos are used by right-wing whites to try and draw-out the instinctive pearl-clutching of the genteel liberal whites; see how barbaric these Muslims are, they aren’t a downtrodden minority, they are violent cretins.

    Of course, this says more about genteel liberal white sensibilities than it does about Muslims. The average Hispanic or African in the West doesn’t react any differently than the average Muslim to such encounters.

    Indians and East-Asians tend to be more passive in these situations, so will probably lean towards the genteel whites in viewing this more negatively.

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      1. Passive but not impotent.

        Indians, East-Asians, and Jews in my experience approach conflict differently. If you gravely insult them, they won’t do anything immediately, but they’ll file complaints where you work, organize boycotts of your business, pursue legal action, etc.

        Muslims, Latinos, and Africans will just smack you on the spot, consequences be damned.

        These are of course generalities.

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        1. I think Sri Lankans fall somewhere between a certain type of Indians (cant generalize) and Latinos, and Africans.

          I have done my share of throwing hizzy fits when working in the US.
          Cant recall while in Academia.

          One incident I still recall, threw a chair and couple of blows to a co worker (white) at a startup. Jealousy on my part, I felt he was intruding on my area of expertise.

          The other was an Indian supervisor (TCS). Iam surprised I have forgotten his names. I got hired over the phone (while in Sri Lanka, end of 1st H1B, 2014) recommended by a colleague. When I got the first paycheck, had a hizzy fit re deduction of taxes etc which was not what was agreed over the phone. No throwing chairs, a “little” bit of yelling. The Indian guy tried to make my life difficult, wanting me to come for TCS only meetings, doing Sigma Xi which was a requirement for GE.

          Did neither, my Indian co workers did the Sigma Xi for me to keep me getting kicked out. I taught them and walked them thru all that I knew and was needed. Still friends with and exchange New year Greetings etc.

          Now I have to deal with the same shit but on the receiving end. Minor labor workers (temporary) throw a hizzy fit if I say the wrong words. That was few years ago. Now I really mind my p and q’s.

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      2. I wouldn’t say that it is a “fact” that Indians are passive. However, Indian Hindus seem to be consistently portrayed by multiple sources over centuries as being passive, timid, and weak.

        For example, if you go by colonial-era British literature (and to a lesser extent, current Western academic literature), Indian Hindus are often portrayed as passive beings who lack agency. They are portrayed as timid and pliable. According to them, it’s the British who had to come and rescue the Indian Hindus from the Muslims. It’s the British who constructed a nationality and religion for the Indian Hindus.

        If you look at American media, Indian Hindus are portrayed as being passive, timid, and servile. “Model minority” basically means a group that is effeminate, servile, and otherwise non-threatening.

        While I’m not as familiar with it, the limited Indian Muslim medieval literature I’ve seen seems to portray the natives as being weak and pliable.

        I may be wrong about this, but I also get the sense that when an anti-Hindu incident occurs, the response of the Hindu community is relatively muted when compared to the response of the Muslim community when anti-Muslim incidents of a similar character occur.

        Of course, religion isn’t everything. There’s culture and geography, as well. If you look at some of the colonial Muslim literature, Bengalis (including Bengali Muslims) are portrayed as timid and weak. For example, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, who was a major influence on Iqbal and Jinnah, noted in his 1887 Lucknow speech that:

        “Think for a moment what would be the result if all appointments were given by competitive examination. Over all races, not only over Mahomedans but over Rajas of high position and the brave Rajputs who have not forgotten the swords of their ancestors, would be placed as ruler a Bengali who at sight of a table knife would crawl under his chair. (Uproarious cheers and laughter.) There would remain no part of the country in which we should see at the tables of justice and authority any face except those of Bengalis. I am delighted to see the Bengalis making progress, but the question is — What would be the result on the administration of the country? Do you think that the Rajput and the fiery Pathan, who are not afraid of being hanged or of encountering the swords of the police or the bayonets of the army, could remain in peace under the Bengalis? (Cheers.) This would be the outcome of the proposal if accepted.”

        “I am glad that some Pathans of the N.-W. P. [North-West Provinces] and Oudh are here today, and I hope some Hindu Rajputs are also present. My friend Yusuf Shah of the Punjab sits here, and he knows well the mood of mind of the people of the Punjab, of the Sikhs and Musalmans. Suppose that this agitation that has arisen in Bengal — and I imagine that no danger can spring from it there — suppose that this agitation extends to these Provinces, to the Rajputs and Pathans of Peshawar, do you think it will confine itself to writing with the pen — giz, giz, giz, giz, giz [the scratching of a pen] — and to mere talking — buk, buk, buk, buk [babbling]? It will then be necessary for Government to send its army and show by bayonets what the proper remedy for this agitation is. I believe that when Government sees the Mahomedans and other brave races taking part in this stupid agitation, it will be necessary for Government to pass a new law and to fill the jails. O my brothers! Children of my heart! This is your relationship to Government: you should conduct yourself in a straightforward and calm manner; not come together to make a noise and a hubbub like a flock of crows. (Cheers and laughter.)”

        http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_sir_sayyid_lucknow_1887.html

        Similar stereotypes exist about South Indians, as well. So in that sense, some of this may be more to do with culture than religion, although it is very difficult to separate religion from culture in the subcontinent.

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        1. Caste plays a big role too. Certain Hindu warrior castes will not step down from a fight.

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    1. Exactly. What Robinson wants is to provoke a reaction both from the Muslim and from other whites. Working-class brits have come to blows over insults throughout history. The Muslim and Robinson are both working class. Notice how Robinson started punching back immediately on being hit with the drink, that’s a working class trait. Richard Spencer, for instance, is a more intellectual, elite white racist, whose first instinct on being punched was to run away, as seen in the infamous video.

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  2. Indians and East-Asians

    sikhs aren’t.

    zach, do you ever see young women or old men react violently?

    unfortunately, it’s always young bros. so there r co-factors.

    But I can’t ask V to modulate or moderate her tone simply because it makes other people uncomfortable.

    good for you.

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    1. But these young bros are “protected.” It isn’t as though the girls and old men around them are condemning the behaviour rather it’s that they are condoning it.

      Look at the hijab fetish among vocal liberal Muslim women in the West. They are aggressively donning an apparel that is used to enslave and oppress their sisters in the West.

      Islam has perfected the doctrine; “offence is the best defence.”

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  3. “For instance when we have friends over; I am always a little tense when male friends of Pakistan/Muslim descent are speaking to Vidhi. I can notice they are simply not used to be intellectually challenged by opinionated women.”

    My Punjabi Muslim friend laughs at how ‘submissive’ his Punjabi Hindu friend is to his wife. He says “we Pakis don’t take that” (these are British born 2nd generation people).

    Islam does encourage dominant and aggressive behaviour. That’s obvious if you read the Quran and see its basic ethos.

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    1. Pakistani women are to blame for that; they refuse to marry out.

      It’s horrible being a Pakistani/Muslim woman in the West (especially if you are practising).

      They are limiting themselves to Muslim men, who have the additional option of marrying outside the Faith.

      Frankly the only solution is polygamy, which these ladies will never do. The spinsters (bachelorettes in Muslim community is a thing (so it is in the Baha’i community though both genders can marry outside the Faith).

      In contrast Hindu girls are rapidly marrying Western men; for instance when V & I went away for her birthday there were two other breakfast tables White man-Hindu woman.

      Pakistani men will always feel on top when they dominate the marriage market vis a vis Pakistani woman (also BritPak men also have the choice of going home to Pak to get a wife, moreso than the girls do).

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      1. I know you are partial to hyperbole but its not at all accurate to say Pakistani-women (or Muslim-women generally) have awful lives in the West. Is it easier being a man? Sure. Would non-Muslim men becoming a threat in the sexual market-place force Muslim men to be “better”? Maybe.

        I would be careful of trying to ride this tiger however, lest Desis/Muslims end up like East-Asian men. Completely forced out of the sexual market-place by white-men basically, as what may have once been an earnest attempt at disenfranchising misogynistic Asian-male attitudes, has turned into a shameless fetish for white-men for no other reason than they are white.

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        1. “I would be careful of trying to ride this tiger however, lest Desis/Muslims end up like East-Asian men. Completely forced out of the sexual market-place by white-men basically, as what may have once been an earnest attempt at disenfranchising misogynistic Asian-male attitudes, has turned into a shameless fetish for white-men for no other reason than they are white.”

          I feel like that ship has long sailed. Hindus are viewed as effeminate, timid, and weak. They are the “model minority”. Eager to serve and posing no threat.

          Muslims are viewed as aggressive and misogynistic.

          Whites come under the goldilocks principle.

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    2. There does appear to be a cultural aspect, too. For example, I was watching Indian journalist Prannoy Roy’s coverage of the Indian elections. In the context of doing field work to determine how people are likely to vote, he noted a significant cultural difference between North India and South India. In the North, rural women tended to shy away from reporters and deferred to their husbands when asked questions. In the South, rural women tended to be more assertive and did not seem afraid to hold political views that were different from their husbands’ views.

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  4. “Pakistani women are to blame for that; they refuse to marry out.”

    Let us just diplomatically say there are a lot of disincentives for them doing so.

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  5. The Western comments on Indian “passive” nature is also informed by the types of Hindus (and disproportionately Jains), typically mercantile classes from Gujarat, Rajasthan and Sindh, who moved to the West.

    On the other hand, Sikh culture is not at all passive, cf chaRhdi kalaN.

    As far as Indian women marrying white men is concerned, it is becoming increasingly common. I actually think it is a good thing, because Indian women are better cultural influencers than Indian men – certainly in the Woke White West. What Indian families can do though is to prepare girls to be the carriers of the Indic trojan memes 😀

    kariSyante paschimamAryam should be the motto 😀

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  6. “The Western comments on Indian “passive” nature is also informed by the types of Hindus (and disproportionately Jains), typically mercantile classes from Gujarat, Rajasthan and Sindh, who moved to the West.”

    Disagree. Not sure how much sikh culture sort of represent vast majority of desi “culture”. Whether you like it or not the mercantile castes is a “better” representation of desi-ness than sikhs who make what less than 2 percent of India pops. Also not sure what other castes dont have “passive” nature. ( I am not using passive-ness as some sort of a negative trait here)
    Literally the only community Razib and you could come with were sikhs (non -passive), that says a lot for over a billion folks

    The castes which are most voluble in India are the upper caste and some OBC groups and they are also make up the vast majority who moved to the west . So yeah we are what we are, and to me i would rather have the “passive” stereotype attached rather than the other stereotypes attached to muslims,arabs (supposedly “macho”) in the west.

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    1. This seems more of a class issue than a caste/ethnic one, though not denying their role.
      Educated ‘middle-class’ constitute most of the Indians living abroad (even for Dalits, OBCs). This group is more concerned with economic and educational attainment than settling scores. I think the ratio of such people among migrants from Pakistan would be lower.

      Sikhs and Gujaratis are the only Indian groups with substantial migration across class lines and the latter is a very downside-conscious mercantile group.

      As far as picking street fights is concerned, you’d find plenty of such folks in places like UP, Bihar, Haryana. But these people are not going to move abroad.

      If this means Indians have a reputation for passivity then so be it. Stereotypes are inconsistent and change over time. Jews are considered weak and un-athletic but Israel is considered belligerent and aggressive.

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  7. // Not sure how much sikh culture sort of represent vast majority of desi “culture”. Whether you like it or not the mercantile castes is a “better” representation of desi-ness than sikhs who make what less than 2 percent of India pops. //

    You misunderstood me. I was only talking about Indians in the diaspora, rather than Indians in India. The Hindus in the diaspora are Gujaratis, Sindhis, Marwaris (esp baniyas more than any other community), Tamils and to a lesser extent Bengalis.

    Sikhs form a sizeable percentage of diaspora Indians.
    ~

    Re Tamils I would really urge everyone to see “Dheepan”, a recent French movie based on Srilankan Tamil immigrants to France. A good example of modern European portrayal of Hindus.

    One of Tamil immigrants (an ex Tamil Tiger named Dheepan) gets a janitorial job in a crime-infested banlieue where he is made fun of by the local goons/criminals (mainly N African Muslims) and seen as a harmless and passive Indian guy. Dheepan is shown to try his best to avoid conflict until the denouement.

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    1. I agree, i was asking which other communities, you have in mind, if they immigrate will not have these “passive” thing attached. To me none, actually. If you think the Jats, Gujjars etc might change this, i think you are mistaken. These groups also travel to different states in India , and for the most part they are seen as “trouble-makers” at worst, and passive workers at best. Many also come from lowest strata of society (so no upper class education and all,supposedly unruly)

      https://www.livemint.com/Politics/B2krjrdQ1N149CvxtNAplL/The-great-migration-Keralas-silent-revolution.html

      Vast majority of the same “street-fighters” of UP/Bihar travel to Mumbai, Gujarat /Middle east and there they “behave” themselves for the longest part. Because there they are no longer the top dog but some local guy is the top dog.

      Passive-ness is an “Indian” feature in “Foreign land” and that’s a good thing. Because what’s worse than losing a fight? It’s losing a fight you started.

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  8. I wonder if the prohibition of alcohol is a factor in Muslims remaining angry at the world at large. I mean, alcohol deprivation does cause frayed nerves. If one gulps down couple of pegs every night and goes to bed, lots of problems just vanish.

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    1. Scorpion Eater

      I wonder if the prohibition of alcohol is a factor in Muslims remaining angry at the world at large. I mean, alcohol deprivation does cause frayed nerves. If one gulps down couple of pegs every night and goes to bed, lots of problems just vanish.

      You sound like an alcoholic. Couple of pegs. Hopefully you can walk to your bed.

      On the other hand if you were a suicide bomber may not be able to find the right Church.

      a) Two St. Sebastian Churches in Negombo. According to my BIL the bombers hit the poorer church. There is another St. Sebastian Church on the coast, Tourist Stretch, Lewis Place. On Easter Sunday my BIL’s extended family and Tourists would be there for the English Mass. They also have a Sinhala Mass.

      b) In Kochikade, St Anthonys the bombers hit the Tamil Mass. If they had hit the Sinhala/English Mass they would have bumped off some of the upper crust of Buddhist and Catholics (not Protestants).

      I am sure Razib knows better than me.

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