What is break down for Banias and Tamil Brahmins from data you are using?

Also, how come that Narsimha paper maxed at 30% for steppe for Kalash? Is that inaccurate? Do you think if they did Haryanvi Jatts they would see like 40% then? Are you saying that my ratios are fallacious because the sub components of Indus Periphery are different for different populations? Do you have a link to data for AASI proportions for different S Asian groups? Sorry for so many questions. I just want to clear up my misunderstandings.

Where are you calculating these percentages from? The papers I’ve seen that try to use ancient DNA to explore modern admixtures seem to arrive at different percentages (sometimes dramatically so) quite often.

I think you are correct in what you are saying in terms of Haryana Jats having the highest Eurasian Steppe ancestry, I’m just not at all confident that the percentages described are accurate.

thewarlock,

None of the Rors or Haryanvi Jatts cluster with Khatris. Khatris are less genetically European, and have a very slight skew towards ancient samples from the BMAC (a skew which Rors and Haryanvi Jatts lack). Also, that’s not really how the modelling works; you can’t reduce it to a matter of basic ratios. This gets a bit complicated… but for the sake of time, we’ll keep it very basic and simple.

For example, the INP-related percentage will capture any excess ANE… which is a unique distinction held by the Kalasha. This is due to their extra affinity towards populations similar to Sarazm_Eneolithic (an ANE/West_Siberian-rich spin on Iran_N… although, it’s highly likely that Iran_N might just be a western spin on Sarazm_Eneolithic, or perhaps on the West Eurasian element which is at play with the ancestries of the IVC samples). Here’s a model of the Kalasha using aDNA:

Sarazm_Eneolithic 25.6%
IVC_West_Eurasian_Component 23.6%
Sintashta 23.63%
BMAC 16.3%
AASI 10.60%

For comparison, the Ror and Jatt of Haryana:

IVC_West_Eurasian_Component 49.25%

Sintashta_MLBA 30.85%
Saka_Tian_Shan_o 4.4%
West_Siberia_N 1.85%
Scythian_AldyBel 1.5%
(almost 40% Steppe-admixture !)

AASI 12.15%

Similar levels of AASI (around 10%-15%), but the Ror/Jatts have a much heftier share of steppe ancestry (40% vs 25%). Also, the Kalasha show a decent slice of BMAC-related admixture, while the Rors/Jatts show none. And the largest single component of Kalasha ancestry is something similar to Sarazm_Eneolithic, while again Rors/Jatts don’t show any signals. Furthermore, the Rors and Jatts are 50% IVC-affiliated West Eurasian, which along with 10%-15% AASI puts them at 60%-65% IVC-related ancestry… while the Kalasha are only 25% IVC-affiliated West Eurasian, which along with 10% AASI puts them at merely 35% IVC-related ancestry. Very different populations… in some ways that one would expect (Kalasha are clearly an ancient Central Asian relic, while the Rors and Jatts of Haryana are West Eurasians of a distinctly South Asian kind), and some ways that one wouldn’t (I wouldn’t expect the Haryanvi groups to be nearly 40% steppe, and the Kalash to be a little under 25%). Here’s a model of Brahmins (Uttar Pradesh):

IVC_West_Eurasian_Component 56.15%
AASI 29.9%
Sintashta 13.95%

Interesting differences.

There is no Greek with blue eyes. That is the same thing as their blonde Gods. Their Gods do not look like Tsipras. Have a look Alexander the Great and you will know immediately that he was not a Greek. Spartans also were not Greeks. Greeks did not consider themselves white and because they gave such name to Celts (i.e Goths, i.e Galls).

Just met a Hindu Punjabi lady with blue eyes; I thought she was Greek. I can’t think of any Hindu Punjabis (apart from the Aroras/Mahajan who are Agricultural?) who aren’t Khatris..

Very few Punjabi Brahmins

Aroras and Khatris are like 25% AASI

Reich lab picked individuals that averaged 25% AASI for their indus periphery marker. Both had about 60% Indus periphery with like 10% AASI for Khatris and 5% for Kalash. If you add the numbers you get the proportion AASI

Khatris are .610 Indus Periphery and .129 AASI.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1.supplementary-material

Link to the tables for raw data ^. The individuals that were counted as the baseline group for Indus periphery averaged 25% AASI.

[(.25(.610))+.129]*100= 28.15% AASI for Khatris or Rors or Haryanvi Jats that cluster with them

[(.25)(.679)+.032]*100= 20.175% AASI for Kalash.

So your general point remains but you underestimated AASI. In old school anthropological, somewhat pseudo-scientific, terms these people are analogous to Castizos of Latin America, people who are of 3/4 caucasoid and 1/4 non caucasoid ancestry. Some of them can pass as fully phenotypically caucasoid.

There isn’t massive homogeneity in caste for Y DNA haplogroups. Upper castes are about 23% H and 30% R. Kalash themselves are 20% H

http://www.krepublishers.com/06-Special%20Volume-Journal/T-Anth-00-Special%20Volumes/T-Anth-SI-03-Anth-Today-Web/Anth-SI-03-31-Trivedi-R/Anth-SI-03-31-Trivedi-R-Tt.pdf

I am of Bania caste. My paternal DNA is H M52 (believe variant found in many Romani people). My maternal DNA is U8b’c, found more to the West of the subcontinent. Most ethnic Indians, if one parent gave them a West Eurasian haplogroup, tend to have inherited it from their father. Interestingly, I got mine from my mother.

You’re absolutely right with respect to pigmentation variation among populations of the Bronze Age steppe; some were probably considerably darker (on average) than even contemporary southern Europeans (and thus wouldn’t fit the current North American idea of “white people”), while some (on average) were rather pale and light-eyed (and light haired). These populations were all genetically close, yet still rather heterogeneous with respect to their pigmentation genetics.

They might seem surprising in the context of contemporary northern Europe. But as a Pashtun, this isn’t surprising to me on a personal level… because I have firsthand experience of seeing Pashtun tribesmen of different tribal backgrounds showing consistent differences in average skin pigmentation and frequencies of light eyes/hair, despite being very genetically close to each other (I’m talking about geographically proximal groups). Like the Safi, who are an unusually fair-skinned group, vs the nearby Shigiwal (who nearly approach Punjabi levels of darker skin). Probably nearly identical in terms of deep (and even recent) ancestry… but clear pigmentation differences. So, the pattern on the ancient steppe still exists in places where the selection hasn’t been as intense… like southern Central Asia, or even West Asia.

And even though this is pure speculation, and I admit I might be wrong… I feel the Aryans weren’t at contemporary Northern European levels of depigmentation. I think we can surmise this by looking at current distributions of steppe ancestry. The Rors and Jatts of Haryana represent the peak of Sintashta-related admixture in South Asia. They’re at 35%… and if we count the Botai-related stuff, they’re almost 40% steppe. They’re essentially ancient steppe + ancient northern South Asian hybrids! Yet, despite being almost half BA steppe, they are not fair… at least going by pictures online. Perhaps Indian commentators could either back me up, or correct me.

The Kalash are vastly more fair than Rors and Haryanvi Jatts (and those populations don’t have much more AASI. The Kalash are around 10% AASI, and the Rors are at 15%. Hardly a difference). Yet, the Kalash are only 25% Sintashta-related! Their fair pigmentation isn’t merely a function of steppe admixture (and an Indian population with more Sintashta-related and not much more AASI is much darker).

All said and done, you hit the nail on the head.

PS: Indra is a part of Serbian ancient mythology (so as later Lithuanian, Latvian, Prussian, etc) also known as Perun (i.e. Perkunas, Perkūns or Pērkons). It had also other names.

‘Indo-European’ language and Indo-Europeans do not exist. No one can explain what is this term. For 200 years scholars have been in a quest for elusive ‘Indo-Europeans’. Previously, IE was ‘Indo-Germanishe’ for 100 years. Just replace IE with ‘Serbian’ and everything will become logical and will go to its place.