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	Comments on: The price of Unity for India’s Dravidians	</title>
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	<description>A discussion of all things Brown..</description>
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		<title>
		By: Scorpion Eater		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scorpion Eater]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39556&quot;&gt;girmit&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;&lt;i&gt; the fanaticism of Jai sri ram culture of the gangetic people is bizarre &lt;/i&gt;&quot;

This is a very recent phenomenon; by product of Ram Janmabhoomi movement.

Many astute observers have noted that the common greeting among the people of gangetic belt in old days was &quot;Jai Siya Ram&quot; (Hail Sita and Ram). Feminine aspect of divinity was acknowledged and revered equally. Ram Temple movement converted the comforting and familial greeting to an exclusively masculine, battle-cry sounding greeting of Jai Shri Ram.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39556">girmit</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i> the fanaticism of Jai sri ram culture of the gangetic people is bizarre </i>&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a very recent phenomenon; by product of Ram Janmabhoomi movement.</p>
<p>Many astute observers have noted that the common greeting among the people of gangetic belt in old days was &#8220;Jai Siya Ram&#8221; (Hail Sita and Ram). Feminine aspect of divinity was acknowledged and revered equally. Ram Temple movement converted the comforting and familial greeting to an exclusively masculine, battle-cry sounding greeting of Jai Shri Ram.</p>
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		<title>
		By: girmit		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[girmit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39555&quot;&gt;Tolkin&lt;/a&gt;.

I can think of a number of differences that would cause fissure in society between southern and northern hindus. Meat eating is the norm amongst southerners. Animal sacrifice is still practiced by mainstream communities. Many major southern temples don&#039;t allow non-brahmins in the inner-sanctum,  many of my north indian friends are offended by this. While Ramayan is deeply enshrined in southern culture, the fanaticism of Jai sri ram culture of the gangetic people is bizarre. We would like the freedom to view these texts as myth if we choose to.  Southerners have a stronger monastic culture as manifested by Mathas as important institutions. North India seems to have more of a Baba culture. I wouldn&#039;t attribute too much virtue to what seems like an ethos of tolerance in a culture that is fractured into endogamous groups. We discriminate against people by excluding them from interaction and opportunity, not by forcefully assimilating them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39555">Tolkin</a>.</p>
<p>I can think of a number of differences that would cause fissure in society between southern and northern hindus. Meat eating is the norm amongst southerners. Animal sacrifice is still practiced by mainstream communities. Many major southern temples don&#8217;t allow non-brahmins in the inner-sanctum,  many of my north indian friends are offended by this. While Ramayan is deeply enshrined in southern culture, the fanaticism of Jai sri ram culture of the gangetic people is bizarre. We would like the freedom to view these texts as myth if we choose to.  Southerners have a stronger monastic culture as manifested by Mathas as important institutions. North India seems to have more of a Baba culture. I wouldn&#8217;t attribute too much virtue to what seems like an ethos of tolerance in a culture that is fractured into endogamous groups. We discriminate against people by excluding them from interaction and opportunity, not by forcefully assimilating them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tolkin		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39555</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tolkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jun 2019 14:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39555</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39551&quot;&gt;girmit&lt;/a&gt;.

maybe I should rephrase as &#039; There is no religious dravidian identity as distinct from hindu religious identity.&#039;
Their core belief of religion is also same as north indian hindus i.e. &#039;live and let live&#039; as opposed to semitic faiths. modes of worship folktales, custom may differ but it would not cause fissure in the society.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39551">girmit</a>.</p>
<p>maybe I should rephrase as &#8216; There is no religious dravidian identity as distinct from hindu religious identity.&#8217;<br />
Their core belief of religion is also same as north indian hindus i.e. &#8216;live and let live&#8217; as opposed to semitic faiths. modes of worship folktales, custom may differ but it would not cause fissure in the society.</p>
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		<title>
		By: girmit		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39551</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[girmit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jun 2019 13:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39551</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[\There is no dravidian as distinct from hindu identity\

People were perhaps not versed in the phylogeny of languages to have a feeling for a category greater than their own . That said, I wouldn&#039;t rule out that there was a sense of southern speech, worship and folkways that differed from the north.  How long did it take for pan-slavism or germanism to become a self conscious idea? Probably as the known world expanded in the average man&#039;s perception, his sense of difference grew.  Its quite natural now that since southerners have had recent sustained interactions with other types of indic peoples, they begin to consider their own distinctive nature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>\There is no dravidian as distinct from hindu identity\</p>
<p>People were perhaps not versed in the phylogeny of languages to have a feeling for a category greater than their own . That said, I wouldn&#8217;t rule out that there was a sense of southern speech, worship and folkways that differed from the north.  How long did it take for pan-slavism or germanism to become a self conscious idea? Probably as the known world expanded in the average man&#8217;s perception, his sense of difference grew.  Its quite natural now that since southerners have had recent sustained interactions with other types of indic peoples, they begin to consider their own distinctive nature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tolkin		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39547</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tolkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jun 2019 12:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39547</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is no dravidian as distinct from hindu identity. Hindu identity is dynamic process which started with early sanskrit speaking society headed by brahma( priest) and Rajan(elected tribal chief) and culminated with caste system of india that we have today.

Early vedic aryan (punjab, haryana, RJ, UP) which was &#039;tribe&#039; based(buddha was from shakya tribe/oligarchs of nepal) and dravidian farming &#039;castes&#039; based in river valleys of south india (cavery, krishna, Godavari) and even possibly Western Mah, Gujarat and sindh(yes probably sindh too!) are its major contributors.

Brahmins initial role as chiefs priest ( who performed fire rituals known as yajna for kings victory) later transformed into a temple/shrine priest whose deity was patron ancestor/deity of that elite kings (Rama for ayodhya chiefs, Krishna/vasudeva for shaursenis etc.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no dravidian as distinct from hindu identity. Hindu identity is dynamic process which started with early sanskrit speaking society headed by brahma( priest) and Rajan(elected tribal chief) and culminated with caste system of india that we have today.</p>
<p>Early vedic aryan (punjab, haryana, RJ, UP) which was &#8216;tribe&#8217; based(buddha was from shakya tribe/oligarchs of nepal) and dravidian farming &#8216;castes&#8217; based in river valleys of south india (cavery, krishna, Godavari) and even possibly Western Mah, Gujarat and sindh(yes probably sindh too!) are its major contributors.</p>
<p>Brahmins initial role as chiefs priest ( who performed fire rituals known as yajna for kings victory) later transformed into a temple/shrine priest whose deity was patron ancestor/deity of that elite kings (Rama for ayodhya chiefs, Krishna/vasudeva for shaursenis etc.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: VijayVan		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39098</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VijayVan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39098</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39072&quot;&gt;VijayVan&lt;/a&gt;.

\Tamil will be dead in a generation or two\

That is an overstatement. Tamil won&#039;t die . It&#039;s cultural roots are deep. In modern registers , it&#039;s presence will be symbolic and also ran.

On the whole I agree with Mikhail Andronov who wrote

 “All efforts of Tamil linguists were not directed at studying modern Tamil, at  determining its norms and preparing it for new functions in society, but at  artificially galvanizing the dead literary language.” (Andronov 1975:188).&quot;

In an effort to recreate a dead literary language, they missed the boat for the future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39072">VijayVan</a>.</p>
<p>\Tamil will be dead in a generation or two\</p>
<p>That is an overstatement. Tamil won&#8217;t die . It&#8217;s cultural roots are deep. In modern registers , it&#8217;s presence will be symbolic and also ran.</p>
<p>On the whole I agree with Mikhail Andronov who wrote</p>
<p> “All efforts of Tamil linguists were not directed at studying modern Tamil, at  determining its norms and preparing it for new functions in society, but at  artificially galvanizing the dead literary language.” (Andronov 1975:188).&#8221;</p>
<p>In an effort to recreate a dead literary language, they missed the boat for the future.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Saurav		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39085</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saurav]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2019 01:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39085</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39070&quot;&gt;Hoju&lt;/a&gt;.

For starters why would he say that to South Indians.  I think you have this view that North Indians are scheming day and night to make South Indians some “pure” Indians or something.  What North Indians have for the south is neglect. Do they think  that perhaps south  should know hindi? Yeah   Do they spend their time thinking how to push hindi to the south.  No. 

It just like the way South Indians feel North Indians are all cow belt walas.  And uneducated and couth.  No one mostly gives a damn of what the other does or whether the other speaks or does not speak some  language .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39070">Hoju</a>.</p>
<p>For starters why would he say that to South Indians.  I think you have this view that North Indians are scheming day and night to make South Indians some “pure” Indians or something.  What North Indians have for the south is neglect. Do they think  that perhaps south  should know hindi? Yeah   Do they spend their time thinking how to push hindi to the south.  No. </p>
<p>It just like the way South Indians feel North Indians are all cow belt walas.  And uneducated and couth.  No one mostly gives a damn of what the other does or whether the other speaks or does not speak some  language .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hoju		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hoju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39072&quot;&gt;VijayVan&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;This will accelerate as parents even from rural background send their children to English medium even for elementary school. In 20 years one can see the result. Tamil cult will grow as it is used less.&quot;

Agreed. Tamil will be dead in a generation or two, along with the other Dravidian languages. It&#039;ll just be Hindi and English.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39072">VijayVan</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;This will accelerate as parents even from rural background send their children to English medium even for elementary school. In 20 years one can see the result. Tamil cult will grow as it is used less.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed. Tamil will be dead in a generation or two, along with the other Dravidian languages. It&#8217;ll just be Hindi and English.</p>
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		<title>
		By: VijayVan		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39073</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VijayVan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39073</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-38925&quot;&gt;X.T.M&lt;/a&gt;.

Kurds&#039; immediate oppressors are Turks and Arabs. That can be the reason of affinity to Persian or larger indo-european languages.  When Kurds were used as a battering ram by the Ottomons against Armenians or other minorities no such affinity was there.  With the change of fortunes,  different dynamic at work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-38925">X.T.M</a>.</p>
<p>Kurds&#8217; immediate oppressors are Turks and Arabs. That can be the reason of affinity to Persian or larger indo-european languages.  When Kurds were used as a battering ram by the Ottomons against Armenians or other minorities no such affinity was there.  With the change of fortunes,  different dynamic at work.</p>
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		<title>
		By: VijayVan		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39072</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VijayVan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=10375#comment-39072</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39067&quot;&gt;Hoju&lt;/a&gt;.

/de-Sanskritisation process has reduced Sanskrit vocabulary for abstract nouns from 40% to 20%. /
This goes as a rumour rather than any academic studies.  In people&#039;s daily communication, Tamil has far less place now than say 100 years back.  That is coz English has taken over parts of communication.
This will accelerate as parents even from rural background send their children to English medium even for elementary school.  In 20 years one can see the result.  Tamil cult will grow as it is used less.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/06/13/the-price-of-unity-for-indias-dravidians/#comment-39067">Hoju</a>.</p>
<p>/de-Sanskritisation process has reduced Sanskrit vocabulary for abstract nouns from 40% to 20%. /<br />
This goes as a rumour rather than any academic studies.  In people&#8217;s daily communication, Tamil has far less place now than say 100 years back.  That is coz English has taken over parts of communication.<br />
This will accelerate as parents even from rural background send their children to English medium even for elementary school.  In 20 years one can see the result.  Tamil cult will grow as it is used less.</p>
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