Open Thread – 09/19/2020 – Brown Pundits

The comments are open(ish).

Finished India in the Persianate Age. This was a much more fluidly written book from Eaton than other stuff I’ve read from him, probably because the Mughal narrative “writes itself.” Recommended.

Probably will take reader advice and focus more on “primary sources” from now on. Though finding good translations is always an issue then…

Also, check out the podcast with Matt Yglesias. And another one with Anand Kadali on hunger in India.

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NM
NM
3 years ago

Is there a way to get `anonymous` genetic test (similar to 23andme) done?

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago

Interesting.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1580453/reko-diq-stay-comes-with-bank-guarantee-condition

“… one of the conditions set by the World Bank-funded tribunal for international disputes was that Pakistan furnish an irrevocable bank guarantee amounting to 25 per cent of the penalty, which the tribunal had awarded, from a reputable international bank based outside the country.

The source explained that Pakistan would have to furnish 25 per cent of the $4.08bn penalty as guarantee.”

Ronen
Ronen
3 years ago

In the past many posts I keep coming across references of commentators here being bullied in school as kids, sometimes even physically assaulted. How common is this in America? Does this depend on how good/bad the neighborhood is, I guess wealthier migrant children in richer zip code areas are less prone to this compared to those from bad neighborhoods? How much of a factor did race factor into the bullying? Is this personal adolescent history among the reasons I occasionally find resentful comments by first-generation migrants about not being accepted?

DaThang
DaThang
3 years ago
Reply to  Ronen

Haven’t been bullied but I have gotten into some confrontations, all of which happened when I was in Indian schools.

AP
AP
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

Were you able to fend off those cowboys?
I went to Catholic primary and I experienced religious bigotry more than racial since there were other non white classmates but all Catholic. Racial fights are indeed rare in suburbs. I’ve seen only one growing up. I did have one interesting experience. During medical school, just before noon conference I entered through the side entrance to get to the back since I knew pizza would be there. A group of female students (2 Indian American, 4 white: 2 Jewish, 1 Canadian, 1 white American who was married to Afro Caribbean man and had biracial daughter) were having ‘girl talk’. Boring stuff but then I knew what it’s like to be a fly in the wall. They started talking about dating and discussed if they’d ever date a Indian guy. And we elevated voices said, “ NOOOO! Omg”. Then one of them noticed me in the back eating pizza and their faces turned bright red. 5 of them never spoke to me ever since. Maybe this is considered microagression. Months later I had a pulmonology rotation and one of them (White Jewish from California very cute/hot) was my partner. Her ex boyfriend at the time was Paul Walker from Fast and the Furious (I learned interesting things about that guy). Anyway she privately told me that she thought I was cute and would have gone out with me if I’d asked. The point of the story is brown people shouldn’t take negative experiences too seriously because sometimes people are just being stupid rather than racist and if you don’t lighten up you could miss opportunities like I did.

leopard
leopard
3 years ago
Reply to  AP

Paul walker?

APthk
3 years ago
Reply to  leopard

Paul Walker isnt that good-looking, even by Bwood standards. By American standards, he’s like your average Valley boy/High school Jock. Not exactly James Bond suave and debonair either. There are South Asians, Latinos, and MENA men that are much better looking than Walker. Of course, many Euro men also look better than him as well. And by South Asians, I dont necessarily mean just NW South Asians and Pashtuns, but other men from diverse extractions throughout the region as well. Same goes for Latinos and Hispanics, even the non-White ones have plenty of lookers among their ranks.

But the point is, White Americans dont possess some special aura that makes them that much more attractive than all non-Whites. My sister is your below-average NW Ror/Jatt and she gets hit on by predominantly White Chads/Jocks to no avail. She is far more attracted to the swarthy, tall-dark-and-handsome Mediterranean look that one rarely sees in most White enclaves around the U.S, with the exception of places like the Tri-State area and parts of the West Coast. As a result, she ends up dating men that aren’t WASP or even Western/Northern European, and mostly MENA or White Latinos with Med ancestry. Owing to the lack of Rors she doesnt date around in the desi community, but has found many folks back in the homeland rather attractive. Cultural issues stymie any lasting attraction in the aforementioned case, but its clear phenotype is not to blame.

South Asians are not born with some deformity that makes them undesirable, people just havent been exposed to the diversity of South Asia, as much as they have, to say, Latin America and MENA countries. More exposure and education is needed to do away with such juvenile nonsense as the conversation alluded to in the medical school group above. FWIW, I’ve never heard such conversations in my private life, and I’ve been around plenty of rather bigoted people (without knowing about it. Until they opened their mouth). Most people dont have such conversations anyway.

H. M. Brough
H. M. Brough
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

I feel like Razib is a massive outlier in his views on this matter. I’ve talked to a lot of Indians in my time, some level of disillusionment is the norm.

I think most of it is attributable to disappointed expectations (the failure of race-blind civic nationalism to successfully challenge race as a way of organizing society). That said, I’ve noticed a definite correlation between “disillusionment” and “having lived in the South.” So a chunk of it is probably a reaction to actual racism.

—-

To Razib’s other point: a few months ago, I was sitting through a resident forum where a chief resident raised the issue of a Black Female intern’s (alleged) rudeness and misbehavior. This surprised me, because the intern was somewhat strident and aggressive, but not a bad person.

Then I realized what was going on. She was a Black Female, and because she had one personality trait (strident) that matched up with stereotypes people have of Black females, people just filled in the rest of her personality for her.

I’m involved in residency admissions as well. Basically, behind closed doors there’s a universally negative reaction to “Asian STEMBros [terminology mine].” I’ve learned that this is true for admissions at other places (eg college) as well. It’s the same issue: member of a racial minority has one trait that matches the stereotype, and people slot in the rest of his traits for him, which redounds against him.

Conversely, if you go against the stereotype, you get a lot of credit. This is how Barack Obama got on the map: he wasn’t a libidinous thug (eg Trump), he was a coolheaded, cerebral man. If an Asian man acted like Obama, people would have written him off in seconds.

So for people who are racial minorities, I encourage them to think about what stereotypes are of their race, and how they can be counteracted. This will be different depending on race. Indians can get away with being aggressive and strident in a way that would get a Black person censured. Conversely, Blacks can be measured and cerebral in a way that would get an Indian person derided.

girmit
girmit
3 years ago
Reply to  H. M. Brough

HMB, the browns you know who experienced racism in the south may be self-selected “refugees” and their perspectives might reflect that. I grew up in a smallish place in the south before going north for college. Felt the browns from nyc suburbs had it worse than us by far (lots of bullying by ethnic whites). In fairness my brown childhood best friend now long settled in SF kind of plays up the southern racism experience, we all create different narratives for whatever reasons. I still think the south changed a hell of a lot in the last 50 years and the general warmth of the people might supersede the late start they had in reckoning with their prejudices.

principia
principia
3 years ago

I prefer physical fights over passive-aggressive bullshit which is common where I live. In the old days, boys would just fight it out 1 vs 1 and have it settled. Today you can’t even punch a bully without getting into trouble yourself. So bullies have adapted and now do passive-aggressive sniping and trying to freeze people out. This shift was not so evident when I was growing up. There was still a “boys will be boys” attitude, but I’ve noticed it among people younger than me. It’s a more feminine form of bullying you could say.

I’m not saying physical fights are good per se. I’m just saying that sometimes a fight can ‘clear the air’ and not fester and making it toxic for months on end. More generally, I’ve never understood why we as a society take physical abuse far more serious than psychological abuse, especially as the latter can be much more damaging long-term.

principia
principia
3 years ago

Santosh Mehrotra had a great interview on the Indian economy. The interview is from July this year, but every answer works just as well today.

What I appreciate about him is that he is slamming not just the ruling party but also many of the Congress-aligned economists. He’s very lukewarm about neoliberalism and has a heterodox mindset. So much of the economic debate in India is still trapped in the mantra of “land, labour reform”. Even though the evidence for those factors holding India back is flimsy at best. His different perspective is a breath of fresh air.

thewarlock
thewarlock
3 years ago

I got pushed around physically. But that’s because I was small and a late bloomer. I’d have gotten bullied in India too.

Once I lifted and basically went through puberty, life changed a lot. I realized the power of appearance much better.

Ali Choudhury
Ali Choudhury
3 years ago

Lockdown has enabled me to really get through my reading backlog to the point I actually need to get more books. There was one book a few years back on the history of India and the Indian ocean by a male Indian author that made some waves. Would anyone know the book I am talking about. Apologies for the vague description.

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago
Reply to  Ali Choudhury

Ocean of churn ?

Ali Choudhury
Ali Choudhury
3 years ago
Reply to  Saurav

Cheers, that’s it.

VijayVan
VijayVan
3 years ago
Reply to  Ali Choudhury

many male Indians have written on history of India. For last generation ppl like Jadunath Sarkar was standard , Wendy Doniger of that gen was Nirad Chaudhri who was a mevrick. Search in Archives.org for indian history – quite a few

https://archive.org/details/digitallibraryindia

Ali Choudhury
Ali Choudhury
3 years ago
Reply to  VijayVan

I have three of Nirad Chaudhuri’s books, interesting character.

GauravL
GauravL
3 years ago
Reply to  Ali Choudhury

Sanjeev Sanyal – ocean of churn ?
Take his work with a grain of salt.

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago
Reply to  GauravL

His work i would put in the average category. Almost all books in India are ideologically motivated whether fiction or otherwise. So he is not that far outside the pale.

Though the book itself has some new information which i enjoyed, so there is that.

GauravL
Editor
3 years ago
Reply to  Saurav

yes; exactly my views;
yeah and as u said – that doesnt mean its not interesting.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago

Interesting article

https://www.opindia.com/2020/09/hindu-rw-needs-to-learn-to-speak-woke-in-order-to-win-globally/

The subject in question is Audrey Truschke. White woman imposing her version of history on indigenous cultures ☺

Sumit
Sumit
3 years ago
Reply to  Ugra

I agree wholeheartedly. Hindu RW need learn to speak woke to power to win globally.

They suck at the wokeness game. Lol.

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago
Reply to  Sumit

What ? Isn’t hindu right wing already the biggest woke in town.

BTW what’s true of truschke is true for Eaton as well. White imposition and all.

Sumit
Sumit
3 years ago
Reply to  Saurav

Their impulses tend to wokeness, rather than liberty.

But they are not skilled at executing their wokeness, at least in so far as English. They need to hire that Saiket guy or someone like that.

Meanwhile the Indian National Congress needs to stop nominating unfit political dynasts at the helm.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago

David Reich once again reiterates to Frontline that IVC genes are the largest contributor of source to almost all Indians today.

https://frontline.thehindu.com/arts-and-culture/heritage/harappan-ancestryis-the-single-largest-source-population-for-almost-all-people-in-india-today/article32514104.ece/amp/?fbclid=IwAR1wIx4H1g3ptfGUfkBEgkfGDXZXkS6Pz2RvqGBmeSu4ZK7ZNwz9l41cAKM&__twitter_impression=true

He did the same last year. I mean, is a denouement coming? How hard is it to make the logical leap that IVC must also be the largest contributor to languages as well? No linguist worth his salt is processing this to ask the correct questions.

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  Ugra

PIE does not have horses — as demonstrated in a new genetics paper. Steppe Theory is pure propaganda now.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

What’s the hypothesis?

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

What you say is true: I did indulge in a little hyperbole. If scholars can convincingly demonstrate that out of Steppe can happen, I will reconsider. After all, we do have mysteries of PIE and R1a left to be resolved. I will be more neutral in the future.

My view: AMT can be true, but I have always maintained that it should be before Harappa.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

“..AMT can be true, but….. it should be before Harappa”

This can indeed be a possibility that will harmonize elements of OIT and AMT. But what if R* and it’s earliest branches were to be found in the area around Bihar, Nepal and Bengal?

The Baikal findings imply that R* went to Siberia from Burma in that direction. But there is no reason to discount that a group could have entered the Indian subcontinent as well.

Now we add a third change –

1. The original R1a entered India not from the Northwest but the East and NorthEast. They established themselves in the Gangetic belt.

2. From here they move in all directions – including to the Indus Valley and then onto the Steppes. But before mixing with the other Indian AASI bearers.

3. Then a second wave of mixing occurs within India.

This will explain why the Saraswati is mentioned first in the Rgveda (old books) instead of the Indus. And also why Indra rides a elephant instead of a horse!

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

Inferences:
1. Hittites did not possess domestic horses; no requirement of horses for PIE now.
2. Around the end of the third millennium, domestic horses in Anatolia appear suddenly.
Horses should, therefore, be introduced by either Kassites or Mitanni.
The only reason to exclude India is gone; this does not confirm that it is the homeland, though. According to me, at least — if not more — Harappans were proto Sanskrit speakers.
The only reason for the existence of Steppe Theory is over.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

@Razib

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/38/eabb0030

This is the paper. It says no domestication happened in Anatolia or Southern Caucasus. They were introduced at the end of the third millennium B.C. or 4100 ybp

Now linguistic theory holds that the earliest to leave from the so called PIE homeland were the Anatolian branch with Hittite and Luwian. And supposedly they carried the IE word for horse to those regions in the middle of the 4th millennium B.C..

This paper destroys that theory in 2 ways

1. PIE has words for domesticated horses like bay steeds with emphasis on coat colours that is only seen in livestock management practices. Impossible to do that for wild horses.

2. So if Hittite and Luwian have these words, they cannot predate 4100 ybp. That kind of destroys the PIE sequence.

If I think about it, it even destroys the concept of PIE in a subtle way!!! ? good find @timepaas

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

@Ugra
You have written a very nice reason; but there is one more: agriculture. That is why Steppe as PIE homeland does not work now. A lot of PIE words related to horse will have to be thrown away — as you mentioned.

@Razib Khan
I have done some more research on IE homeland. Should I submit a peer reviewed paper? I don’t wish IE homeland problem to affect my career right now though; it will take a lot of time investment too.

Numinous
Numinous
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

@Ugra @timepaas

I remember reading in David Anthony’s book (2007) that the Anatolian languages were pre-PIE; i.e., descending from a sister of PIE. So the fact that Anatolian doesn’t share a word for horse with the PIE languages has been well-known to linguists (and PIE theorists) for a long time, and their theories have always taken it into account.

So hold your hurrahs.

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

@Numinous
PIE is taken to include Anatolian. I am really surprised that you contest Anatolian as part of PIE.

From wiki:
“””
Phases of Proto-Indo-European

According to Anthony, the following terminology may be used:[2]

Archaic PIE for “the last common ancestor of the Anatolian and non-Anatolian IE branches”;
Early, or Post-Anatolian, PIE for “the last common ancestor of the non-Anatolian PIE languages, including Tocharian”;
Late PIE for “the common ancestor of all other IE branches”.
“””

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago
Reply to  Ugra

Reich cancelled. Where are my romila thapars at , when u need them most ?

AP
AP
3 years ago

@Razib

Do you think an Indian American who hasn’t converted to Christianity has a chance of being elected as President or high office in any of three branches of government from either party?

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
3 years ago

https://twitter.com/therealnaomib/status/1305779461934080001

Comment on the same thread-
https://twitter.com/gauravsabnis/status/1305853438115356672

Apparently anti-Hindu bigotry is a fictitious concept now.

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
3 years ago
Reply to  IsThisReal

The person who wrote that second tweet, Gaurav Sabnis, would make for an interesting Browncast episode (hopefully)

He has a blog (and also a Marathi blog)-
http://gauravsabnis.blogspot.com/

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago
Reply to  IsThisReal

The male Saira Rao. Only difference him being an immigrant while Rao is Indian American.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

@Razib, Here’s another go –

1. Mainstream Linguistic theory posits that the Anatolian IE branch (Hittite, Luwian and a few others) were the first to break away from the Urheimat. Somewhere between 4th millennium and mid of 3rd millennium.

2. Hittite possesses similar roots for the horse and associated livestock management practices – like foaling, breaking in (halter) and specifically colour coats. More importantly, it shares these with other IE families – Iranian and of course Sanskrit. Rgveda has the most widest vocab for horses in rituals, usage and breeding.

3. Now the only way for all these separated languages to have common roots is Urheimat. Hittite and other Anatolian languages do not have a lot of anachronisms and the developments of the other branches. Therefore they sit at the top of the outbound waves – the first to break out from the Urheimat where horses were common.

4. Now this finding totally falsifies the date – they did not have domestication until the end of the third millennium.

So one of the underlying pillars of IE linguistic theory has to be discarded – which one?

1. Anatolian branch was not the first wave. But then why do they not share some of the later isoglosses?

2. There were no horses in the Urheimat when Anatolian branch broke away. But how do they common words for horse and it’s practices with other IE languages?

3. The shared words are due to trade and contacts, not due to linguistic memories from a shared past. Just like the word for elephant. Indians were the source (ibha). But who were the original domesticators of the horse? This one is the most dangerous to AMT as it removes the centrality of the horse to the Aryan expansion.

All 3 explanations are interlinked, something in mainstream linguistic theory has to give way to explain the new paper.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

@Razib

Sorry, it’s not a strawman. Witzel has published umpteen peer reviewed pieces stating that IVC cannot be IE speakers as they do not exhibit any horse artifacts such as seals, toys, drawings and bones.

The connection of the horse with IE speakers has been absolute over the last 50 years. In his book, David Anthony writes with precision that horse riding IE speakers came to Anatolia and West Asia in 3500 BC. Guess he has to rewrite now.

This is the second animal genetics paper that negates consensus. The first one was the introduction of the Indian Zebu to West Asia in 2000 BC. This is the second one – again coincidentally (or not) in the same period.

We have a mystery population introducing foreign cattle and domesticated horses to West Asia and Anatolia in the beginning of the 2nd millennium.

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  Ugra

David Anthony – Chapter 4 (Page 43), also Page 42 for the terminal date. Then Chapter 10 (Page 200 to 222).

Witzel is quoted so many times and so extensively in the context of IVC papers, it very hard not to consider him as the paterfamilias of Western Indology. Very surprising to see you dismiss him. The “no horse = no IE” argument was practically invented by him. If we apply that to West Asia/Anatolia, then there were no IE speakers before 2100 BC there. It’s rather inconvenient for David Anthony’s conclusions.

Violet
Violet
3 years ago
Reply to  Ugra

Witzel argued Harappan seals doesn’t represent a language at all and they are like heraldic symbols. Let’s not take Witzel as authority on all linguistics stuff.

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

Watched the two latest uploads (for like a minute or two each, skimming) and her English seems to be good enough

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

Ten inventions of Nikola Tesla that changed the world!

(Google translated)

The most famous Serb believed that all scientific research should be focused on the betterment and progress of the human race, and not on making a profit. We represent those without whom we could not imagine a modern world.

Very little is known about the real merits and legacy of the Serbian genius Nikola Tesla, as well as about the pressures he had from American corporations, government agencies and secret services. However, today, 77 years after his death, Nikola Tesla and his work are finally beginning to attract the attention they deserve, and his works are beginning to be seriously discussed.

While the world public wonders whether he was a genius or a weirdo, little is known that Tesla was ruthlessly persecuted by the top of the energy industry, especially by Thomas Edison, whom children in American schools teach was a genius. Also, little is known to our public that after his death on January 7, 1943, the US government broke into his apartment and laboratory and confiscated all his scientific research. None of them have ever been made public.

We present you 10 (out of 700) inventions that Nikola Tesla, the man who gave to the world.

1) Alternating current

That’s how it all started … With this discovery, Tesla raised a lot of dust at the “World Expo” in 1893 in Chicago. After that, an open war began between the visions of Edison and Tesla about how electricity should be produced and distributed.

To demonstrate the fatality of Tesla’s discovery, Edison killed animals in public with alternating current. It should be mentioned that Edison, in the end, gave the world an electric chair.

Tesla showed Edison that alternating current was completely safe by transmitting it through his body to turn on the light bulb. The war between Tesla and Edison culminated in 1893, after a decade of murky business moves, stolen ideas and the annulment of a patent by which Edison and his colleagues tried to destroy Tesla and destroy his discoveries.

– I don’t care that they steal my ideas, I’m worried because they don’t have any of their own – Tesla’s response to various subterfuges and intrigues was recorded.

2) Lighting

Of course, Tesla did not invent electric lighting, but he discovered how light can best be distributed and used. Tesla used fluorescent lights in its laboratory for 40 years before they were “industrially” patented. Experts believe that Tesla’s coils are probably his most controversial and most successful work, and that is the invention that the industry most wanted to cover up and prevent from being used in public.

3) X-rays

Electromagnetic and ionizing radiation was often explored in the late 19th century, but Tesla re-examined the full spectrum of that piece of science and discovered everything from Kirlian photography, which is able to capture the aura (energy field around people and things) used in medicine today. diagnostics. In the field of radiation research, Tesla made many discoveries, all thanks to the personal belief that everything we need can be found in the nature around us, we just need to understand the universe in which we live.

In other words, Tesla believed that all scientific research should be focused on the betterment and progress of the human race, and not on making a profit.

4) Radio devices

At first, the discovery of radio devices was attributed to Guillermo Marconi, and most of the public believed that he invented radio receivers as we know them today.

However, the American Supreme Court annulled Marconi’s patent in 1943, when it was proven that Tesla invented and used radio years before him. Radio signals are just another component of remote control that Tesla demonstrated at the presentation of its remote-controlled ship in 1897!

5) Remote control

The present invention was created as a continuation of research on radio. Patent No. 613809 is the first remote-controlled product, called a “remote-controlled ship” whose work was demonstrated by Tesla in 1898. It used a pair of powerful batteries, radio signals controlled by a series of switches, an electric motor to power the ship, and a series of lights on the ship that were powered by batteries. This technology was not used for a long time after Tesla, but it shows how Tesla’s ideas were used by the army.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

Cont.

6) Electric motor

Tesla greatly improved the electric motor, which was popularized a few years ago in the form of an electric car that bears his name.

Suffice it to say that Tesla invented an electric motor with a rotating magnetic field that liberated the human race from the oil industry even though many did not realize it. Tesla’s electric motor is found in industrial machines, household appliances, water pumps, electrical appliances …

7) Robotics

Tesla’s advanced scientific mind led him to the idea that all living beings are driven by external impulses.

– With every thought and deed, I have shown, and I show every day, that I am a type of automaton that is endowed with the possibility of movement, to which I react through external stimuli – said Nikola Tesla, who was born the concept of a robot.

Nevertheless, the element of humanity remained present, because Tesla himself said that human replicas (robots) would have limits, such as growth and creation of offspring. Regardless of the shortcomings of the idea, Tesla, with all his intelligence, accepted that something like that could be done.

8) Laser

Tesla’s discovery and invention of the laser is one of the best examples of good and evil assembled in the human mind. Lasers have been transformed into surgical applications in the best possible way and because of them we have different types of digital media today.

On the other hand, that same laser is used today in defense systems that are deadly. In any case, the present invention has great potential for development in both directions, both positive and negative.

9) 10) Wireless communication and unlimited free energy

These two notions are inseparable, because they are the last step of the elite in power because – what is the use of energy if the government cannot control it?

Tesla built a tower with which he used the natural frequencies of our universe to transmit data, including a wide range of information through images, voice messages and text.

APthk
3 years ago

@Milan Todorovic

Fascinating link between my favorite Serbian and my favorite Bengali: https://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/113/11/2207.pdf

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago

https://twitter.com/vsvjt/status/1307117728642281472
https://twitter.com/kabjaking/status/1307319458168483841

Dravidans VS Khalistanis as to who is bigger collaborator of the Indian state.

thewarlock
thewarlock
3 years ago
Reply to  Saurav

They should form Khalistan in Pak Punjab and Tamils should return to Bruhai territory in Pak and from Dravida Naidu. All will be well then. Let the saffrons rot in the “mainland” 😉

NM
NM
3 years ago

@Razib
I was looking for genetic data for “Bunt” community of Costal Karnataka (Udupi, Mangalore). I came across your old blog post, which does have the data for “Bunt” although the main article is about another community.

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2020/05/17/knanaya-kerala-perhaps-there-is-some-different-down-south/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=knanaya-kerala-perhaps-there-is-some-different-down-south

I was wondering if you could link to the paper which provides more information about the “K_Bunt” population in your article.

“Bunt” community is unique from what I have observed. They are a land owning community whose name literally means “Warrior”. Aishwarya Rai, Shilpa Shetty, Sunil Shetty are from the “Bunt” community.

NM
NM
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

Thank you,

Ok, the sample size is quite small. I suspect “Bunts” contain both populations with higher South Indian component and another population which has a bit higher North Indian component.

This might have occurred because other native populations got incorporated as warriors. (Or I could be wrong)

NM
NM
3 years ago

@Razib
Also the same article mentions to TreeMix:

comment image?ssl=1

Is there a layman’s approach to understand what it means? could you please provide some inputs

Bob
Bob
3 years ago

Just listened to the MY 1B podcast. I burst out laughing at the iSteve bit come to life when MY went into his bit about his grandparents getting excluded from the country club.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

@ Francesco Borgetti

Let me refer again to your recent comment, especially the language tree diagram. I think that BPundits (both, amt and oit) are still courteous to comment.

There is one so-called dilemma, what is the Proto Indo-Iranian language at 2000BC which is at the root of the diagram. The major obstacle is the key history falsification that Serbs migrated to Balkan from unspecified location which also has a significant impact on SA history. Considering that we resolved the genetics ‘issue’ we are moving to discuss linguistics, mythology, ethnology and toponyms.

I will provide some brief linguistic facts (this area is also heavily falsified with artificially invented terms which contribute to the confusion) but before that I will provide few background details.

For example, indigenous people in Mexico were 98% decimated and only 2% of them remained. However, there are many of their words remained and became a part of Spanish. In Balkan, many tribes lived before alleged Slavic migration (e.g. Illyrians, Thracians- the most populous people in the world after Hindus, Moesians, Dalmatians, Liburnians, Dardanians, etc, etc). However, there is no ONE word from the previous population which mysteriously disappeared from the face of the earth together with their graves that remained in Serbian language. Probably, because they were the same people, i.e. the migration did not exist and there is also not one record about this.

Wiki is slightly improving and let see their text (in the next comment) about Illyro-Thracians Roman Emperors. Is it possible that after so many Emperors not one word remined from their people in newly arrived Serbian language?

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

WIKI about Serbian Roman Emperors:

The Illyrian emperors were a group of Roman emperors during the Crisis of the Third Century who hailed from the region of Illyricum (the modern Western Balkans), and were raised chiefly from the ranks of the Roman army (whence they are ranked among the so-called “barracks emperors”).[1] In the 2nd and 3rd centuries, the Illyricum and the other Danubian provinces (Raetia, Pannonia, Moesia) held the largest concentration of Roman forces (12 legions, up to a third of the total army), and were a major recruiting ground. The advance of these low-born provincials was facilitated by a major shift in imperial policy from the time of Gallienus (260–268) on, when higher military appointments ceased to be exclusively filled by senators. Instead, professional soldiers of humble origin who had risen through the ranks to the post of primus pilus (which also entailed admission to the equestrian order) were placed as heads of the legions and filled the army’s command structure.

The historical period of the Illyrian emperors proper begins with Claudius Gothicus in 268 and continues in 284 with the rise of Diocletian and the institution of the Tetrarchy.[2] This period was very important in the history of the Empire, since it represents the recovery from the Crisis of the Third Century, a long period of usurpations and military difficulties. All of the Illyrian emperors were trained and able soldiers, and they recovered most of the provinces and positions lost by their predecessors, including Gaul and the eastern provinces. Men of Illyrian or Thraco-Dacian origin however continued to be prominent in the Empire throughout the 4th century and beyond.

The emperors’ list is the following:
• Decius – ruled AD 249–251
• Hostilianus – ruled AD 251
• Claudius II “Gothicus” – ruled AD 268–270 (either from Illyricum or Moesia Superior, Thrace)
• Quintillus – ruled AD 270
• Aurelian – ruled AD 270–275 (either from Dacia ripensis, Dacia or Illyricum)
• Probus – ruled AD 276–282
• Diocletian – ruled AD 284–305
• Maximianus “Herculius” – ruled AD 286–305
• Constantine I – ruled AD 306–337
• Constantius II – ruled AD 337-361
• Jovian – ruled AD 363–364
• Valentinianus I – ruled AD 364–375
• Valens – ruled AD 364–378
• Gratian – ruled AD 375–383
• Valentinianus II – ruled AD 375–392
• Marcianus – ruled AD 450–457 (either Illyricum or Moesia, Thrace)
• Anastasius I – ruled AD 491–518
• Justin I – ruled AD 518–527 (either Thracian or Illyrianborn in Moesia)
• Justinian I – ruled AD 527–565

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

What WIKI says about the languages spoken by above Emperors:

…The languages spoken by the Illyrian tribes are nowadays an extinct
and poorly attested Indo-European languages and though it is not clear whether the languages belonged to the centum or the satem group…..

….The Thracian language is an extinct and poorly attested language,
spoken in ancient times in Southeast Europe by the Thracians. The linguistic affinities of the Thracian language are poorly understood, but it is generally agreed that it was an Indo-European language with satem features…..

….Dacian is an extinct language, generally believed to be Indo-European, that was spoken in the Carpathian region in antiquity. The language was probably extinct by the 7th century AD….

….Dalmatian is an extinct Romance language that was spoken in the Dalmatia region…

Etc, etc….

It is interesting that, according to WIKI, for eg. the Thracian language, spoken by Justinian (and by the most populous people in the world after Hindu), completely disappeared 100 years after his death so as all Thracians themselves.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

There are a couple other interesting details regarding alleged Slavic migration to Balkan:

• Romanians (i.e. Dacians) were indigenous people in Balkan but they had the same genetics as Slavics (Serbs) who were located 3000 km away and never had previous contact.
• Bulgarians came to Balkan (today’s Romania) before Serbs and took the language from indigenous people in today’s Bulgaria. This language is identical as the language of Serbs who came later to Balkan. Amazing, isn’t it?
• Let see the alleged migration from the logistics point of view in the next comment.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

RE: Migration – a logistic dimension

The official history says that Slavics (Serbs) came from at least 3000 km away. Because of the lack of roads, marshlands, big rivers without bridges, Carpathians, forests, etc. it is fair to assume that Slavics could not depart before the end of the May to reach the destination in September before the winter. It means that they needed at least 120 days (definitely more) travelling 25 km/day (probably less) with ox carts and families. If one family had 5 members and required one kg/member of food, it means that one family had to prepare 600 kg of food. Let ignore the fact how they organised the synchronised departure from large (still unknown) area without internet.

When they reached the Balkan after crossing Carpathians, they had to build winter houses and wait for spring. Which food they had for the whole winter? If we assume that they found free and fertile land they had to wait at least July to get some new food. What was their food in a period Sep-July? We could see that Romans had 1/3 of their army (12 legions) located in former Yugoslavia but they haven’t noticed incomers. What was their number if they covered the whole Yugoslavia and displaced locals (probably hundreds of thousands)? What’s happened with locals and their graves? If they crossed through Romania, how no one noticed such number of people passing? If they crossed through Hungary (Hungarians came in 896), who lived in Hungary? Why they abandoned the most fertile land in Pannonia and continued several hundreds of km to Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Adriatic islands, areas with a moon landscape and without agricultural land??

After all above mentioned, only those with strong phobia (and fobia), who sounds as morons, can state that Serbs came to Balkan in the 7th cAC.

I hope that all previous comments weren’t wasted time and, in the following comments, we can go back without distraction on the main discussion track about SA history, languages, mythology, toponyms.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

I remember one BP podcast where one Indian researcher, who works in a German Institute, is doing a research of Bactrian language accents and how some sounds were pronounced 4000 years or so ago. I am not expert in this, it sounds fantastic to me but probably scientifically possible to do.

Here, we have the Illyrian language, spoken since before Odyssey (who was an Illyrian), by dozens of Roman Emperors and elite Roman legions (1/3 of Roman army) which geographically occupied former Yugoslavia and which suddenly disappeared overnight 1300 years ago, together with all these people, without leaving one their word in the descendant language and for which we don’t know even if it belonged to the centum or the satem group…??

How someone can be such moron to believe in this?

GauravL
Editor
3 years ago

Has anyone read Douglas Murray’s – The Madness of Crowds ?
How is it ?

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago

https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/why-social-media-isn-t-really-the-real-villain-of-this-age-11600615899736.html

Why social media isn’t really the real villain of this age

“The “ethicists” of every era have always whined about the way of the world, and about how no one has time for the wonderful art of the whiner.

At the very start of the documentary, the heroes say or imply that the tech industry is not evil by design. But soon the documentary appears to realize that a successful story requires heroes, and heroes require villains. So it sets out to define the villains—the social media companies and Google and others whose products have intoxicated the world.

But then Netflix, which streams this documentary, is even more addictive than social media. Without this streaming service and the transmission of its existence by word-of-mouth on social media, the documentary would have been doomed. Hypocrisy in good people is known as “irony”

“How do you wake up from the matrix?” a good guy in the documentary asks. Some people think that just because they can ask this question, it means they themselves are not part of the matrix.”

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3102057/whos-playing-taiwan-card-india-china-tensions-modi-or-rss

Who’s playing the Taiwan card in India-China tensions, Modi or the RSS?

“In the Indian diaspora in the US, influential Hindu cadre bases built around Sangh Parivar groups since the 1970s raised funds for the 2014 and 2019 elections that Modi won by landslides. They also organised campaign events for him in New York’s Madison Square garden and a “Howdy Modi” event in Texas.

Occasionally, the groups’ influence even spills into the domestic politics of their host country.

In last year’s British election, Hindu groups urged British Hindus to vote against the opposition Labour Party, accusing it of being “anti-India” and “anti-Hindu” because of its criticism of human rights violations in Kashmir.

The Hindu diaspora in the East is less politically influential, yet still mirrors the BJP’s agenda. In Bangkok in January, OFBJP, HSS and VHP demonstrated in support of Modi’s new citizenship amendment act at a time when protests against the law – which has been criticised as discriminatory against Muslims – were spreading through India.”

NM
NM
3 years ago

@razib

I didn’t completely follow the conversation on IVC. Is the claim that IVC could be a pre-vedic, proto-indo-european language based civilization?

Could you please elaborate?

GauravL
GauravL
3 years ago
Reply to  NM

my opinion –
IVC and Vedas are quite distinct – the whole picture brought alive from archeology for IVC seems incongruous with Vedic life – Esp Rgvedic. So I firmly believe IVC to be Pre Vedic; In short i am Team AIT;

But with OIT theories –
1. there is an argument that IVC and Vedic civilization co existed in the west and east Indo-Gangetic plain – i dont buy that argument at all for variety of reasons.
2. Also there is argument that Rgveda is pre IVC and some vedic ppl went East into Ganga valley and some remained in Indus/Sarasvati and built the IVC – Frankly out of the 2 IVC theories i find the Second lot more feasible than 1 – though i personally would bet AIT or OIT by 90% to 10%.

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  NM

@NM
The conversation in the thread was all about the feasibility of Harappa speaking an IE language; whether OIT is — true or not — will be decided in the future. The only obstacle to identifying IVC as proto Sanskrit speakers — for linguistic reasons — was: horse.

There are horse remains that have been found in IVC, but these were insufficient to convince Indologists. Furthermore, recently, paintings of horse riders dating to OCP culture have also been discovered. Now, when even horse argument is proven to be wrong by genetic studies, there is no reason to reject IVC as proto Sanskrit speakers — whether they are so is a separate matter.

Facts about the date of Rigveda:

1. It is a pre iron text. The iron age in India started in the 16th century.

2. People argue that magically urbanism disappeared after 2000 BC. They would not be wildly speculating like this if they had actually studied archaeological papers. Archaeological fact: India remained urban even after 2000 BC. If AMT migrants can compose Rig Veda in an urban setting, then Rig Veda can also be composed during the time of IVC.

3. The text mentions a perennial Saraswati. The river dried off by ~1900 BC. Yet, Steppe migrants mentioned a dead river in Rig Veda in the location where it flowed.

4. Rig Veda mentions technologies such as plowing, Bactrian camel, etc. that appear in order from the earliest to latest books. All these technologies — including the iron — were already invented in India by the time AMT occurs. Yet, Steppe migrants composed a text in which technologies appear from oldest to latest books in the approximate order they were discovered historically. Coincidentally, they only forgot to add iron.

5. Astronomical dating of Rig Vedic texts based on the precession of the earth’s axis gives a date much before AMT migrants arrived. This is the strong proof of the Rig Veda’s date to be before 2000 BC because even the authors were unaware of such a phenomenon.

NM
NM
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

Thanks

VijayVan
VijayVan
3 years ago
Reply to  Razib Khan

It is a strange category – Italian BD settlers in the UK. However not terribly strange. When I was holidaying in Italy , in Savona, I went around the town and found a number of shopkeeprs who run, marginal shops like cheap stuff , were bangladeshis. That article also highlights another aspect og migration to Europe. Many of the immigrants to EU countries – apart from Britain , desperately want to come to Britain. Britain has got a mythic status in the minds of potemtial immigrants from poor countries, especually Muslim countries. That is why thousands of young men rot in camps in northern France just across the British Channel in places like Dunquerue or Sanguette risking all their lives , like jumping into lorries to come to Britain. When I was in Switzerland, my taxi driver was an Eritrean who had ben there for 15 years. He kept on asking me how to come to Britain and make a life there. he already had a life and a job – taxi driving – in a beautiful part of Switzerland, still an insane desire to settle in Brtian.

These thousands of young men would rather rot in refugee camps and die in the process of crossing the Channel to come to Britain, than make a life in France or in any other EU country.

principia
principia
3 years ago

If you take Joseph Henrich’s argument in WEIRD seriously, then this story should worry you about India’s economic future.

https://twitter.com/WattPatrick/status/1305757529369120768

Ugra
Ugra
3 years ago
Reply to  principia

How and why? What is the connection?

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago

A good friend of mine in India has been toying with high speed trading. Quite a lot of open source material is available and even with a self written rudimentary logic based (but really optimized) code this guy seems to be doing quite well. Has anyone here looked into this?

timepaas
timepaas
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

I tried high speed trading once; gave up after I realized that you need money to make money.

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Reply to  timepaas

Give it just two years. You too shall have money to make money. Amazon pays 110K+(base) if you are reasonably good, the key to everything is getting an internship early.

Janamejaya
Janamejaya
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

No, its not that easy. He may just be having a bit of luck.

High freq arbitrage trading not only needs fast algos and software but specialized hardware and very high speed connections to exchanges, so much so that servers are often physically located very close to the exchange.

Also the high frequency arbitrage pie is only that big. In a smallish stock market such as India’s its even smaller. A lot of players already exist in the market who just about manage to keep their head above the water. I have had close interactions with a few in Gurgaon, Bangalore and Mumbai.

Scaling to a size where you really rake in the moolah and in 5-10 years can retire is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. It would probably be a lot easier and likely to take a startup to success.

Medium and low frequency algo trading is where the potential (still) is. However, its algorithmically much much harder to crack. AfaIk only a few international firms (with offices in India) do this. There often aren’t enough datapoints to draw statistically relevant signals, not to mention the noise in the data.

Narasingha Deva
Narasingha Deva
3 years ago
Sumit
Sumit
3 years ago

For people who think Islam cannot be interpreted in line with modern values. Check out this channel.

https://m.youtube.com/user/QuranSpeaks

There is a world of difference between this guy and someone like zakir naik.

The fact that Islam is allied with woke in the west may actually help shift Muslims towards these sorts of interpretations.

Brown
Brown
3 years ago

there is a huge drug related storm in mumbai and bangalore. ipl has started. chinese are becoming a permanent head ache. these matters more than islam, wokeness, etc to an indian in india.

Tawangnese
Tawangnese
3 years ago
Reply to  Brown

Chinese racist brutally attacks Indian woman(Patel).
https://youtu.be/53me-ICi_f8
Never forgive never forget!

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago

Indian produce(usually onions) export bans are so unfair. Everyone in India from an auto-wala to a surgeon goes all out to swindle others(including farmers) but will blatantly lie and play victim card against farmers. If onions are costly so what? no one has ever died by eating less onions. Farmers should fight for their right to some good time, make city people pay.

Vikram
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

True, but there seems to be a Stockholm syndrome with farmers as well. They are not as profit and growth seeking as one would think. This is understandable, farming is risky as it is, and our farmer’s average landholding is pretty small.

But yes, these export bans are totally unfair. Just like software engineers, our farmers should be able to access the dollar market. If, as a city dweller, you cant afford fruits and vegetables, work harder.

Sumit
Sumit
3 years ago

Nice essay conformism and cancel culture…

http://www.paulgraham.com/conformism.html

GauravL
GauravL
3 years ago

Bhimrao, Vikram,
What do you make of the new Farm laws ?
I found them really good on my observation – not much to oppose in them IMO

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Reply to  GauravL

I don’t understand what the hue and cry in parliament is about, Indian politicians are so unthoughtful and unprofessional when sitting in opposition.

Briefly:
1) MSP is not going away, in my opinion it should have gone away and so should loan-waivers and indirect subsidies like free water, electricity. But Indian farmers are the original vote bank.
2) Some items are taken off anti-hoarding list (but why should the farmers protest about that?)
3) Mandi Samitis are being defanged, in practice this will never be possible as most farmers are too artless in these matters.
4) The more corporate people show up in agriculture the better.

Indian landholdings are so small that in most cases farming should be called hobby not a profession. Even self proclaimed rich people brag about having 10 acres of land, lol! It is silly to hang onto such small parcels(<1 acre) and have crazy levels of under-employment but then we are a low IQ and desperately poor people. The life of subsistence farmers is really horrible in UP, I wish more people would take the self-help group route out of this fundamentally stupid occupation. Farming just ain't worth it.

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

Also, have you been to Bhimashankar from Pune? On the way there are these eateries attached to strawberry farms and small farm produce processors making jams and candies etc. I think with so much excess manpower and small hand-holdings that’s the way to go, specialize in some rare-exotic-costly item.

I have heard of so many people who have quit jobs in tech and started fabulously successful farms in Karnataka and TN making $100-200K for themselves annually. Those are the kinds of people who can do something worthwhile. The rest of the Indian farmers used to cry, are crying and will continue to cry no matter what anyone does.

GauravL
GauravL
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

“Also, have you been to Bhimashankar from Pune? On the way there are these eateries attached to strawberry farms and small farm produce processors making jams and candies etc. I think with so much excess manpower and small hand-holdings that’s the way to go, specialize in some rare-exotic-costly item.” True – Even in Mahabaleshwar/Panchgani – Berries and now even exotic veggies r grown a lot. On average Western MH farmers r better off though there is lot of Sugar lobby induced problems here as well. MH already allows farmers to sell directly to customer though – and such sabji mandis are growing popular these days. Since lockdown lots of farmers r even providing home deliveries for large societies – its to be confirmed if these folks r really farmers or just middle men posing as farmers to get a better deal

“Indian landholdings are so small that in most cases farming should be called hobby not a profession. Even self proclaimed rich people brag about having 10 acres of land, lol! It is silly to hang onto such small parcels(<1 acre) and have crazy levels of under-employment but then we are a low IQ and desperately poor people. The life of subsistence farmers is really horrible in UP, I wish more people would take the self-help group route out of this fundamentally stupid occupation. Farming just ain't worth it."
EXACTLY – Indians farms (no farms IMO) can support such a large % of population. There could be some much employment even if some farms in Gangetic plains r sold over to industries – who would employ lot of migrant workers and farm aids – that may even boost prices and help other farmers. Getting ppl from the North and the east to work in mills in MH,GJ,TN seems to inefficient when these folks could be so much more efficient in UP/Bihar/Orrissa

Folks like Rathin Roy/Ila Patnaik have been making those recommendations for years now – but in our political system tough to get those things passed.

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago

Just like everything else with this Govt (and in life) , these ‘reform’ will neither free farmers, nor somehow destroy them, and will sort of settle into a middling thing.

As Bhim noted no one in his right mind will take away MSP or APMCs , in India once u give a subsidy it would be politically sucidial 2 take it away (MNREGA etc) . So nothing will really change on the status quo front. It could actually be counter productive as the Govt might now announce higher MSPs just to hold on to its farmers who are agitating. On the reform part of it, it opens up just another smaller avenue for the farmers to sell in the market. Anyhow its +ve effects are exaggerated. So overall a reform with potential political costs with negligible political (or reform) advantages. Bit like CAA.

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Reply to  Saurav

So overall a reform with potential political costs with negligible political (or reform) advantages. Bit like CAA.

+1

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago

Indian foreign office babus are just stunningly incompetent:

This is what their ‘grand-strategy’ gets us:

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-slams-turkey-on-kashmir-remarks-completely-unacceptable-2299630

even after spending 10,000 crores on Turkish ships:

https://www.financialexpress.com/defence/make-in-india-indian-and-turkish-shipyards-close-contract-for-building-fss-ships-for-the-indian-navy/2037522/

Fuck this crackpot and if Turks can’t rein him in like the Malaysians fuck their entire country we can needle them on Syria, Kurds, Armenia and Cyprus, lets take our pound of flesh.

Ronen
Ronen
3 years ago
Reply to  Bhimrao

I wouldn’t be so quick to make a decision, it’s important to select battles that use up diplomatic capital carefully. Turkey already has maritime issues with Greece, and France and the other European countries would end up backing the Greeks because of the EU.

Kashmir is an easy issue that Erodgan just throws in for easy support from his core constituencies in Turkey, and he adds it to the alphabet soup of pet concerns (Palestine, Rohingyas) he makes in a speech, not too surprisingly he appears to have dumped the Uighurs for now. In terms of credible changes on the ground, there’s not much he can do.

India’s diplomats are somewhat incompetent, but the main problem is that reforms to increase the size of the foreign corps that’s absolutely necessary (the size of India’s foreign service is smaller than Singapore’s) is opposed tooth and nail by existing diplomats because ‘everyone’ wants to be an ambassador. So there’s no incentive for good performance that could lead to promotions since all of them would become ambassadors anyway. If the diplomats had a progression structure similar to the armed forces (where only a percentage of officers get promoted) effectiveness would be up in a couple of years.

The smarter thing to do is just wait him out till other issues get the better of him, like the Greek sea disputes and the internal corruption cases he faces, and return once his political capital is spent on these things and he’ll be more amenable to friendly relations with India. I have a feeling this is India’s general strategy with the world outside of the immediate neighborhood, and this makes sense given their resource constraints.

And the problem with any kind of needling on issues like Kurds, Armenia, and Cyprus, is that let’s say things do improve with Turkey, does that mean India will dump these regions since they’re not needed anymore? That would only send a bad message that India makes friends with smaller countries and entities only if there’s a use for them. Any policy towards a country should have a structured approach with long-term goals, and not do a 180 whenever something changes in the neighborhood.

Bhimrao
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Reply to  Ronen

I am fine with Erdogan being crazy, they are a sovereign country. I am not fine with giving sensitive defense projects and pay money to countries who don’t respect India’s territorial integrity.

Anyways every Uighur beard forcibly shorn should remind all these opportunist Islamists of their true ‘aukaat’.

Saurav
Saurav
3 years ago

To tell u the truth, my expectation from any govt is so low , i see any govt which completes its terms without a MNREGA,MSP like subsidy as success 😛 Since they cant do anything good, the least it could do is to not throw new money after bad money. Or at least throw the least amount of money to paper over the cracks.

And on this front the Modi Govt has been good (considering the situation) and fiscally responsible (much 2 my surprise) , at times at the cost of their pollical capital (this is something which Indian “economists” don’t get, since its not their political capital) .

Ali Choudhury
Ali Choudhury
3 years ago

I heard the Matt Yglesias podcast. A good discussion. It was a little off-putting to hear him speak. He started every sentence with a somewhat terrified yelp like someone was giving him a wedgie each time. It’s hard to convince people your ideas have merit if you don’t sound confident and forthright when presenting them.

Brown
Brown
3 years ago

current state of farming is not even being acknowledged by the ‘experts’. there were times, when a majority of auto rickshaw drivers in bangalore were muslims as they were the proletariat. now majority of auto and cab drivers are kannadigas from supposedly rich farming districts of mandya and hassan. agriculture as it stands today is totally remunerative. i have seen many so called farmers who have hiredoff their lands and are working in cities.
some reform is needed.
prof. vaidyanathan on pgurus channel has a very interesting take on this.

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

RE: ORIGIN OF SERBS – European civilization was born in Serbia (English subtitle – 45 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKbpjWa19dU

I believe it would be interesting to listen for both, AMT and OIT. As Khanishka said – Indians and other SAsians should learn the histories of others to be able to learn their own history. There are here couple references on India.

fulto
fulto
3 years ago

Vincans aka Anatolians have the following Y-DNA halogroups:
G2a2a1, G2a2a1a, G2a2a1a2a, G2a2a1a, G2a2b2a1a, H2

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

Sanskrit = Serbian? (3 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixkd9phZX4g

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

Тhe ancestors of the Serbs were the first inhabitants of Britain (English subtitles – 37 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uJRYds0Yhs

(excerpt)

British Isles:

Phase 1: 4500 – 3400BC
All the skeletons examined in Britain belong to the I2A (=Serbian, Dinaric) haplogroup

Phase 2: 3400 – 2900BC
All the skeletons examined in Britain belong to the I2A haplogroup

Phase 3: 2900 – 2500BC
All the skeletons examined in Britain belong to the I2A haplogroup

Phase 4: 2500 – 2100BC
R1B intrusion and settlement on the South, I2A remains on the North, etc…

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

SANSKRIT LOVE SONG TO INDIA (3 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpv8eMlXuzM

From Alexander’s homeland: (3 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU2_WW8kxHg

Milan Todorovic
Milan Todorovic
3 years ago

Good night to all pundits. Don’t get stressed to much about the ratios and phenotypes and sleep well:

Sanskrit Lullaby Īśwara Namaskāram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6ne6uJMWk

fulto
fulto
3 years ago
fulto
fulto
3 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples

“”
The ancient Iranian peoples who emerged after the 1st millennium BC include the Alans, Bactrians, Dahae, Khwarezmians, Massagetae, Medes, Parthians, Persians, Sagartians, Sakas, Sarmatians, Scythians, Sogdians, and probably Cimmerians, among other Iranian-speaking peoples of Western Asia, Central Asia, Eastern Europe, and the Eastern Steppe.

In the 1st millennium AD, their area of settlement, which was mainly concentrated in steppes and deserts of Eurasia,[8] was reduced as a result of Slavic, Germanic, Turkic, and Mongol expansions and many were subjected to Slavicisation[9][10][11][12] and Turkification.[13][14]
“”

Hoju
Hoju
3 years ago

Really enjoyed the podcast episode with Matt Yglesias.

I wonder if he drew any inspiration from Maximum Canada: Toward a Country of 100 Million.
Probably not since little attention is paid to Canadian stuff (even in Canada)… but the notion of being underpopulated and imagining a ‘big’ Canada (in terms of population) is something that comes up now and then in Canada.

Yglesias’ claim sounds crazy at first blush, but I don’t see why the US cannot simply sustain the rates of immigration you see in Canada and Australia. Also don’t see why a points system isn’t used. The immigration system in the US doesn’t seem to have a coherent vision to it. It’s not thought of in strategic terms. It’s a hodgepodge of rules.

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
3 years ago

https://twitter.com/FriedrichPieter/status/1295637098221801472

Watched a stream of him speaking about his book, apparently Modi imposing a sudden lockdown to curb the virus is also a sign of fascism

What even

Tawangnese
Tawangnese
3 years ago

Chinese racist brutally attacks Indian woman(Patel).

https://youtu.be/53me-ICi_f8

Never forgive never forget!

Sumit
Sumit
3 years ago
Reply to  Tawangnese

lol, i am going to disavow this woman. she is more UK in terms of cooking skills than indian.

who drains rice using a colander ?

i understand no rice cooker, but where the pressure cooker at ?

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
3 years ago

I think I already posted about young Turks leaving Islam, now here’s Iranians leaving Islam-

https://iranintl.com/en/iran/iranians-have-lost-their-faith-according-survey

Brown Pundits