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	Comments on: Reflections on Nadir Shah&#8217;s exploits in India	</title>
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	<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/</link>
	<description>A discussion of all things Brown..</description>
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		<title>
		By: J T		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76267</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2020 03:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76267</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;The reason the invasion was facilitated was because of high treason, which in turn was caused by the fact that much of the Mughal nobility was of foreign origin, and felt little patriotism towards India.

Some 30 years ago, there was a debate in India around “Foreign origin” of Sonia Gandhi and whether this should bar her from public office and electoral politics. The debate settled in Sonia’s favor.&quot;

High treason it was, but ascribing it to foreign origin is misplaced. There are enough indigenous examples of treachery in Indian history. Even Maratha history is replete with political infighting and internecine warfare that the Nizam of Hyderabad and the EIC exploited.

A very interesting blog that shed light on the superior leadership of Nadir Shah was dragged down by the last few paragraphs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The reason the invasion was facilitated was because of high treason, which in turn was caused by the fact that much of the Mughal nobility was of foreign origin, and felt little patriotism towards India.</p>
<p>Some 30 years ago, there was a debate in India around “Foreign origin” of Sonia Gandhi and whether this should bar her from public office and electoral politics. The debate settled in Sonia’s favor.&#8221;</p>
<p>High treason it was, but ascribing it to foreign origin is misplaced. There are enough indigenous examples of treachery in Indian history. Even Maratha history is replete with political infighting and internecine warfare that the Nizam of Hyderabad and the EIC exploited.</p>
<p>A very interesting blog that shed light on the superior leadership of Nadir Shah was dragged down by the last few paragraphs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thewarlock		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76230</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thewarlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2020 15:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76226&quot;&gt;Ali Choudhury&lt;/a&gt;.

very true. Some Handwos were quite quick to turn into Haleems in the face of mighty Kebabs who tempted them with financial rewards]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76226">Ali Choudhury</a>.</p>
<p>very true. Some Handwos were quite quick to turn into Haleems in the face of mighty Kebabs who tempted them with financial rewards</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diaspora Indian		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76227</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diaspora Indian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2020 13:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76227</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76226&quot;&gt;Ali Choudhury&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Elites have their own agenda which does not necessarily encompass concern for their countrymen.&quot;


We have this in the West also where the native elite rarely act in the best interests of their own group and instead view themselves more along class lines rather than ethnic/religious ones. In America you have all these &quot;secret societies&quot; like the Skull and Crossbones or Bohemian Grove, they basically serve as a totem pole around which the Western elites can rally around.
At the end of the day, people are selfish and look after their own skin and that of their immediate family, true patriots are fairly hard to find amongst the more successful individuals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76226">Ali Choudhury</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Elites have their own agenda which does not necessarily encompass concern for their countrymen.&#8221;</p>
<p>We have this in the West also where the native elite rarely act in the best interests of their own group and instead view themselves more along class lines rather than ethnic/religious ones. In America you have all these &#8220;secret societies&#8221; like the Skull and Crossbones or Bohemian Grove, they basically serve as a totem pole around which the Western elites can rally around.<br />
At the end of the day, people are selfish and look after their own skin and that of their immediate family, true patriots are fairly hard to find amongst the more successful individuals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ali Choudhury		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76226</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ali Choudhury]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2020 12:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76226</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The downfall of the Mughal empire was due to Aurangzeb. Not because he overspent and over-extended the empire (although that didn&#039;t help) but because he feared his potential successors would also overthrow him like he did to his own father. Therefore he did not allow them to earn the experience necessary to run an empire by taking important military and administrative posts as he did.

The point about non-natives lacking patriotism is noted but did this even exist in India before nationalism and the desire for independence became a political force in the 20th century? There was no shortage of high-ranking native Hindu Indians who were happy to serve as generals and administrators for the Mughals and marry off their daughters to them. Even arch-Muslim Aurangzeb boosted Hindu Rajput participation in the government to unprecedented levels. Elites have their own agenda which does not necessarily encompass concern for their countrymen.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The downfall of the Mughal empire was due to Aurangzeb. Not because he overspent and over-extended the empire (although that didn&#8217;t help) but because he feared his potential successors would also overthrow him like he did to his own father. Therefore he did not allow them to earn the experience necessary to run an empire by taking important military and administrative posts as he did.</p>
<p>The point about non-natives lacking patriotism is noted but did this even exist in India before nationalism and the desire for independence became a political force in the 20th century? There was no shortage of high-ranking native Hindu Indians who were happy to serve as generals and administrators for the Mughals and marry off their daughters to them. Even arch-Muslim Aurangzeb boosted Hindu Rajput participation in the government to unprecedented levels. Elites have their own agenda which does not necessarily encompass concern for their countrymen.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nachiketa		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76216</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nachiketa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2020 04:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76216</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76184&quot;&gt;Bhimrao&lt;/a&gt;.

that&#039;s a truly remarkable battle. the odds]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76184">Bhimrao</a>.</p>
<p>that&#8217;s a truly remarkable battle. the odds</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bhimrao		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bhimrao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2020 17:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76179&quot;&gt;Nachiketa&lt;/a&gt;.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yeghev%C4%81rd
Nader was just too good.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76179">Nachiketa</a>.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yeghev%C4%81rd" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yeghev%C4%81rd</a><br />
Nader was just too good.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Saurav		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saurav]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2020 17:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76178&quot;&gt;Bhimrao&lt;/a&gt;.

The Marathas need not &quot;help out&quot; considering this were not their lands which was being invaded. Communities who cant help themselves should be left to their fate . The folks whose own lands were being invaded coolly stood by the side.

The Marathas helped later in Punjab and tried to liberate Bengal. In both the regions u know as much as i do what&#039;s the reputation of Marathas. Surely the same would have happened in this case as well. First &quot;help out&quot; and then be branded invaders of your own lands.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76178">Bhimrao</a>.</p>
<p>The Marathas need not &#8220;help out&#8221; considering this were not their lands which was being invaded. Communities who cant help themselves should be left to their fate . The folks whose own lands were being invaded coolly stood by the side.</p>
<p>The Marathas helped later in Punjab and tried to liberate Bengal. In both the regions u know as much as i do what&#8217;s the reputation of Marathas. Surely the same would have happened in this case as well. First &#8220;help out&#8221; and then be branded invaders of your own lands.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nachiketa		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nachiketa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2020 17:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76178&quot;&gt;Bhimrao&lt;/a&gt;.

yes. Marathas didn&#039;t have the numbers as well on there own. But things don&#039;t necessarily work on the sheer basis of numbers or weaponry. The Khilji raid on South (esp Devgiri) being examples. Sometimes even if armies r reasonably matched the raid of Delhi could&#039;ve been avoided with compromise. A lot of treaties are testimony to that. 

I meant in the assistance of Mughals. as there was already a deal between Marathas and Mughals (with Nizam)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76178">Bhimrao</a>.</p>
<p>yes. Marathas didn&#8217;t have the numbers as well on there own. But things don&#8217;t necessarily work on the sheer basis of numbers or weaponry. The Khilji raid on South (esp Devgiri) being examples. Sometimes even if armies r reasonably matched the raid of Delhi could&#8217;ve been avoided with compromise. A lot of treaties are testimony to that. </p>
<p>I meant in the assistance of Mughals. as there was already a deal between Marathas and Mughals (with Nizam)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bhimrao		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bhimrao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2020 17:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76176&quot;&gt;GauravL&lt;/a&gt;.

Maratha artillery was outdated and Bajirao too would have been routed by a clearly superior general. More importantly people like the Nawab would have had another reason to justify their betrayal of Mughals and Delhi.

Bajirao&#039;s advisors and his sovereign lord gave good advice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76176">GauravL</a>.</p>
<p>Maratha artillery was outdated and Bajirao too would have been routed by a clearly superior general. More importantly people like the Nawab would have had another reason to justify their betrayal of Mughals and Delhi.</p>
<p>Bajirao&#8217;s advisors and his sovereign lord gave good advice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: GauravL		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/20/reflections-on-nadir-shahs-exploits-in-india/#comment-76176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GauravL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2020 16:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=14423#comment-76176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting counterfactual would be had Bajirao &lt;em&gt; (who waited in Malwa on repeated advice of Shahu, Chimaji and other Maratha generals (and famously his mother)  &lt;/em&gt;) gone up to the North to assist Mughal armies. But the Maratha army was not very large - though Bajirao&#039;s name/tactics still would&#039;ve carried some weight in what happened in Delhi.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting counterfactual would be had Bajirao <em> (who waited in Malwa on repeated advice of Shahu, Chimaji and other Maratha generals (and famously his mother)  </em>) gone up to the North to assist Mughal armies. But the Maratha army was not very large &#8211; though Bajirao&#8217;s name/tactics still would&#8217;ve carried some weight in what happened in Delhi.</p>
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