81 thoughts on “Leicester!”

    1. No it started a week earlier, when Hindu groups were chanting ‘Death to Pakistan’ after India won the first Asia cup match and ganged up on a Pakistani to beat him. Everything else is just following that.

      https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/hate-crime-probe-into-leicester-violence-following-india-pak-asia-cup-cricket-match/articleshow/93913532.cms

      Indian population in Leicester is 28% (mostly Gujratis) while Pakistanis are 2%. Indians are now claiming victim now that the heat has been turned up a notch.

      1. Have a look at the 2011 religion census.

        There are more Muslims than Hindus in Leicester even if Pakistanis are only a small percentage.

        What are the demographics of the Muslims there?

        1. This was an India/Pakistan match that was made into a Hindu-Muslim issue, specifically by Gujarati Hindus who are now exporting Indian domestic problems to UK. Indian/Pakistani diaspora never had this type of bad blood abroad, so this is something new.

          1. Do you have an evidence of Gujarati Hindus specifically making it into a Hindu Muslim thing?

            My understanding is that it was cricket hooligans after the cricket match shouting slogans which were anti-Pakistan not anti-Islam.

            But in response Islamists attacked targeted random Hindu owned shops and homes and vandalized temples.

            And also calling for Muslims from other cities to come and join in etc.

            Which then made it into Hindu / Muslim religious conflict. Rather than a cricket riot.

          2. The cricket riot was also started by Hindus and that was weeks ago. The recent Hindu rally marched in front of the mosque and vandalized properties in mostly Indian Muslim neighborhood as I understand, these were not Pakistanis. The nationality of the Muslim here doesn’t matter to Hindus, and frankly, it doesn’t even matter for Muslims since Indian Muslim/Pakistani Muslim diasporas are pretty close especially when they are also religious.

    1. I have said this before but immigrants should be not bring their ethnic conflicts to their new country and should try to assimilate as much as possible. Basic guest/host courtesy, “When in Rome, do as the Romans”. The calm you see in the West among the whites is a top down imposition. At some point that dam will finally break.

      1. HJ
        Import South Asia, become South Asia
        Import MENA, which is much much worse.

        I have been very surprised there were no real big time Sinhalese Tamil (LTTE supporter) clashes. Maybe the population numbers are too small

  1. This fight will unite the UK based Indian diaspora politically. This is not a fuzzy ideological campsite like the 80s (Kashmir) but one for physical street control.

    Labour/Socialists will pump for hardcore Islamic appeasement as they have been doing all over the world, including in India.

    Europe is facing a right wing resurgence, including the Nordics, like Sweden. There is a sufficiently developed European intellectual movement behind this resurgence. Writers like Houellebecq parallel the rise of writers like Bhyrappa in India.

    Arabs form less than 10% of the pop, it is Bangladeshis and Pakistanis that form the bulk. These “lower prestige” elements of global Islam will complicate some politics on that side.

  2. Indians in India have nothing to do with what Indian origin people do in their own countries.
    I wonder why these issues are spun as an extension of Indian domestic politics?
    PSA: NRI’s of any shade have negligible influence on Indian domestic affairs – furious twitterposting does not count

  3. This article has lots of Twitter links.

    https://sw1forum.substack.com/p/sw1-bitesize-the-leicester-riots

    As I understand matters, it was the Hindus who in fact started this fight, but it wasn’t anti-Islam but specifically anti-Pakistani. However, the Pakis were able to call on their moslem brethren. They’ve been getting reinforcements even from West Midlands.

    As such, the Hindus were massively outnumbered and thus backed down.

    Does this say anything about Islam? Hinduism? No, it just tells us something we all have known since forever: most crime and troubles are committed by young men ages 15-25.

    Men will invent reasons to do violence if they can’t find any at hand.

    1. What even is the point? The so called liberals have passed the verdict already, every “investigation” is just dressing.

      1. Why do RW Indians always appeal to imaginary ‘liberals’? What will some random author/professor/activist’s tweet change?

        All public intellectuals are in a niche entertainment business, no one actually gives a shit about them.

  4. Lol its well and truly over for diasporoids. No one will say anything about Muslims, all mainstream media will definitely pin the whole thing on Hindus. People like Qureishi are not a fringe element.

  5. Hopefully the immediate situation in Leicester has been calmed down and calmer heads prevail.

    Longer term, street level violence between the Hindu & Muslim communities will only end badly for the Hindus. The Hindu community is very blue collar and has no history of street fights. The British Muslim community is multi-national and draws street power from subcontinentals, Arabs, Turks, etc.

    Contrast that with the Hindu community where Gujarati Hindus go to Gujarati temples and Tamil Hindus go to Tamil temples. The SL Tamil community has taken no interest in batting for their Gujarati coreligionists and I don’t see any signs for that to change.

    1. Last time around I think it was the SL Tamils with street power that prevailed against the Bradford bandits. Similar story in Canada and even in Australia.

      If push comes to shove, I suppose the British Indians will take up arms to protect themselves like they did in Australia (2009).

    2. @siddharth
      Iirc, you are based in the UK. Could you shed any light on the clashes that’s missing from the conversation? Do we really know who provoked it?

      1. @girmit
        No idea mate, I’ve been traveling and out of the country. Either way too much fog of war to be able to discern the chronology, and too many POV’s so I’m not even trying. Just hope for the situation to be resolved powerfully but I’m not hopeful, the Islamists have tasted blood in their Midlands strongholds and aren’t going to come down easy.

        1. There is a delicate balance. Hindus cannot do nothing. It will be worse in the end. An all out blood feud ends badly because Muslims have a lot more legions of lower income fanatics willing to engage in riots. This is evidenced by their proportionally higher prison population.

          Doing just enough is key so as to not rile up the mob too much but to show that people will be willing to fight back when their places of worship are desecrated and livelihoods, homes, and businesses targeted by bigoted gangs.

    3. Siddarth,
      The SL Tamil community has taken no interest in batting for their Gujarati coreligionists and I don’t see any signs for that to change.

      The SL Tamils are more “ethnicity/nationality” than Hindu.
      As Jay said, SL Tamils with street power that prevailed against the Bradford bandits,. The SL Tamils were protecting their turf, not defending “co-coreligionists or TN Tamils.

      The same with the Sinhalese, I doubt they would defend co-coreligionists in Burma or Cambodia.

      1. The Sri Lankan both Sinhalese and Tamil are relatively the most assimilative, in SL or out in other countries.

        However, I think there is an insularity to them. They dont take up causes of others, i.e. they dont join in fights of others.

        Individualism or selfishness.

  6. ‘Longer term, street level violence between the Hindu & Muslim communities will only end badly for the Hindus. The Hindu community is very blue collar and has no history of street fights. The British Muslim community is multi-national and draws street power from subcontinentals, Arabs, Turks, etc.’

    Partition redux, wont u say?

    ‘Contrast that with the Hindu community where Gujarati Hindus go to Gujarati temples and Tamil Hindus go to Tamil temples. The SL Tamil community has taken no interest in batting for their Gujarati coreligionists and I don’t see any signs for that to change.’

    Same in India. Thats y the fracture b/w more and less Hindu people..

    1. >Same in India. Thats y the fracture b/w more and less Hindu people..
      and then the so called more Hindus end up loosing their temple and self and wait for the less Hindus to come save them. Always.

    2. “…fracture b/w more and less Hindu people”
      Hey, the purveyor of idiocy is still around I see. But I’ll bite as I’m bored.
      Who here is ‘more’ Hindu and who less? Please do elaborate. Here’s some clues that might help you –
      At least in the UK the SL Tamil temples are architecturally grander and better looking than the generic (non- BAPS) NI mandirs (gopurams ftw any day). They are much more serious about cultural preservation (Sunday schools, music and dance, chanting and bhajans, etc.) and on average have much higher attendance. They support the community through paying for funerals, etc. for those that need it. The average Tamil is also more blue collar and there are many tradespeople among them, people who work with their hands and aren’t into nutty things like glorifying vegetarianism (spoken as a vegetarian myself, I think it’s dysgenic).
      The average NI Mandir attenders are gujju and panju uncles and aunties who dress up to gossip and socialise.
      Who’s your money on to carry their traditions through, to stand their ground and protect their places of worship?

      1. This exact convo is why Hindus lose. Total disunity. For Islam, especially among hyper conservatives of S Asian UK community, everyone is one under ummah.

        I also do not appreciate your dysgenic comment. There are enough ways to do a vegetarian diet correctly. I am surprised you continue a lifestyle that you think is dysgenic, religion aside.

        1. “This exact convo is why Hindus lose. Total disunity”

          Agree. I kinda overreacted to the less-more Hindu BS. I kinda became the thing I try to fight against, heh

          Final point about this before I shut up – the association with India and it’s politics might end up being a distraction for the Indian Hindu diaspora and counterproductive. Again looking at the SL Tamil experience, not having a country ‘back home’ to look to probably makes it easier to build stronger from the ground up.

          Regarding vegetarianism, I’m still ambivalent. Having grown up that way, my aesthetic preference had crystallized and I had no urge to ever switch. It can definitely be done as part of a strong fitness regimen in this day and age (I did x-fit for a few years) that wasn’t the case earlier. There’s also a holier-than-thou vibe to Indian vegetarianism that for the longest time I wasn’t sensitive to and is unintentional, don’t know if any others feel that way.

      2. “Who here is ‘more’ Hindu and who less? Please do elaborate.”

        He won’t so i’ll say it. He’s a weird Aryan EthnoCentrist of sorts. Dravidians&NE Indians, Adivasis etc will never be as Hindu as him because “Muh Sanskrit”.

    1. Read the first link at the top. Started from a cricket match. Now we here.

      Since these types of Hindu Muslim riots have never happened in the diaspora before, the blame squarely lies on recent Indian imports, who seem to be high on Hindutva ‘whatsapp facts’. Even the Sikhs are supporting the Muslims. Enough said.

      1. UK has many khalistani Sikhs. They tend to seek out Pak Muslim Punjabi allies. So you will get a biased type of Sikh who will reach out and band with Muslims. Muslims will falsely extrapolate all Sikhs are with them.

        They are activist type with likely active hatred of Indian state and supremacist complex against Hindus. Most people of all religions will be silent.

  7. What we are witnessing is a microcosm of history.When historians say, religion is not the cause, but petty reasons, greed etc, this is what they mean. Technically this did not start because of religion. But it became one. Why?. Because religion creates fanatics, support of fanatics is sought by people with petty disputes,greed etc vs an unbeliever. Fanatics support and get support by those worldly inclined for success in competition with unbelievers. This game theoretic model explains enough. It does not explain everything. And M’s want to keep this backup option with them. And why not, if no one shall call them on it. Rest of the world got themselves taken over by the trojen horse of philosophy and took to the idea of pursuit of truth/ justice etc. And so it rolls. There will be victims, but be assured, M’s need to understand, this has to end.(I dont discount H’s in this mess either) . elite now has power because the masses have not thrown them out . But will do so . Once the numbers rise and there will be skin in the game for the masses. And when that happens, liberals and left might find that they too will be thrown out and dealt much the same, like traitors. Or lets hope AGI comes quickly and takes over all humanities.

    1. Gujarati Hindus in the UK do not have a history of association with religious extremism but we know who does. Who split on the basis of religious hatred. Who tries to pretend that they are Arabs, Iranians Turks anything but Indian? The blame is firmly on Islamic extremists not the ordinary people. India’s Muslim population increases by percentage. Pakistan’s and Bangladesh’s population decrease by percentage. Who started this Islam versus Hindu thing? Islamists did. I am saying the truth no Tahhiya.

  8. Anyway, UK police seems pretty bad at stopping any riots or controlling crowds. Most of their officers are not even armed and I don’t see any riot gear or tear gas. Shit has gone long enough, they need to put a stop to it before it spreads to other cities.

    1. Hindus better hope so. They are screwed in an all out riot. There are not enough young men fanatic enough to engage in street brawls to do death over this type of stuff. Like I said above, delicate balance. Enough to show Hindus are not completely going to take it lying down. But not so much that it turns into some sort of nation wide gang warfare blood bath. Hindus have a lot more to lose on average socioeconomically and position wise. Other than some wealthy Gujarati Muslims/some elite Mohajirs, Muslim S Asian community is not doing well. Less to lose material wise in a complete nationwide riot.

    2. If the UK police get kinetic, whole of human rights industry, anti-Islamophobic industry, Labour Party fringes, Antifa, Anti-racism industry will swing into action

      1. UK police is more like an administrative agency than a US police force. The staff makeup reflects that. Mostly left wing, useless liberal arts degree holders. Lots of affirmative action women as well. They are not capable of being kinetic even if they wanted to.

        The US police forces recruit from the completely opposite demographic. Even in Los Angeles, the elected, left wing, police chief said he would not enforce the mask mandates. Impossible to imagine this in UK or other Anglo countries. After the Saint Floyd riots, American activist class wanted US police to be more like UK. Humanities degree holders with lots of “training”. Thankfully, the fragmented nature of US police makes that quite hard to achieve.

      1. Good thing to come out of this:
        a) Greater cohesion among ABCD Hindus and purge/dis-association of the heretics. Indians in the west want to raise ‘angrej lalla’ and their kids become faux-white and deracinated. Majority of Indians in US/UK/… will still think they are the ‘smart’ and chosen ones, (more hardworking, beat competition, more deserving, more enterprising than the people they left behind in India … I have heard a lot of such boasts) destined to bleach themselves, raise insta-sluts or doctors, and finally achieve moksha of becoming white, they too will have to face their choices.
        b) It is good that this is happening outside of India. Saves India time and energy to focus on growth, gives ABCDs perspective on how not to give their lame bakchodi gyan and do rona-dhona when riots happen in India. I remember the wailing going on here when Delhi riots happened.
        c) Keeps the India-Pakistan pot boiling at low cost. Big win.
        d) British Police is reasonably competent. Bloodshed will not happen and even if it does happen, there will be justice.

        This would also be good for Indian grocers and restaurants, will lead to less patronage and footfalls in ‘Indo-Pak’ places.

      2. Lessons for NRIs: gyan kam chodo, help your people. Harami selfishness has limits.

        I have seen too many Indian Americans who don’t give a shit about their own country and people. Bless America for not giving Indian fuckers GC or citizenship. God knows how deracinated we would be then.

        1. “ Lessons for NRIs: gyan kam chodo, help your people. Harami selfishness has limits.

          I have seen too many Indian Americans who don’t give a shit about their own country and people. “

          Judging by the comments on the blog it seems ur barking up the the wrong tree. For some it’s better to “keep politics aside” and continue be deracinated.

          1. This is precisely it. India-bashing was a common theme among NRI’s for a long time, the liberal white elites largely accepted their worldviews but did not hold to them strongly and mostly ignored them. But things have changed now, there is a ton of social pressure to espouse certain opinions and denounce others. The social benefits of being a patriotic Indian in the west is zero especially in the academics, while the costs are very high. The reverse is true for India-bashers.

  9. Read the first link at the top. Started from a cricket match. Now we here.

    1. You claimed that it was Hindus made it a “Hindu-Muslim” thing in Leicester. The cops confirmed that this was fake news-https://twitter.com/AKanuv108/status/1572004280567037955
    It was nothing more than an India-Pakistan duel.

    Muslims did nothing but spread unverified news about death chants and a girl being kidnapped/harassed to stir this shit.

    2. Smethwick is 50 miles from Leicester. How long will you keep using Leicester as an excuse?
    Instagram posts were shared to call folks to attack it-https://twitter.com/RashmiDVS/status/1572163336837664770

    Muslims are now using some BJP/RSS spokesperson being invited as the excuse (ironic given the amount of venom people like Muhammad Hijab and Ali Dawah spew everyday), except that the talk has already been cancelled and she won’t be coming to the UK. But they still decided to go there and throw bottles/crackers and climb on the wall.
    This is the same shit we saw earlier in the year in Sweden. A man said that he was GOING TO burn the quran (he hadn’t even done it at that point), and muslims lost their shit and burnt cars and attacked cops. (not that you should be doing this shit after a quran has been burnt)

    If you act violently over something that hasn’t even happened, you’re already 100% worse.

    1. Lol apparently now, Hindus’ moral worth is equal to a Russian’s. And ironically, some people on the RW think “at least they didn’t say Nazi”.

      Oh my sweet summer child, you have to tune in to liberal subreddits to know what the paragons of tolerance and virtue have to say about a Ruskie since the invasion. Never mind that they live in a dictatorship and have no say in the war. A lot of it will give you a terrible cardiac arrest…

      1. “apparently now, Hindus’ moral worth is equal to a Russian’s.”

        No. Hindus are largely brown. Russians are largely white
        .
        You are a Muslim to the right wing. And a Nazi to the left wing.

        Very punchable either way.\

        1. Yes this is what I meant to say, clarified in another comment below.
          Lots of libs have been calling for “permanent solutions” for every Ruskie so you don’t want to be placed next to them in this hierarchy, and then of course there’s the anti-immigrant right.

          All UkraineConflict posters have latched onto the narrative that we’re “Putin loving Hindu Nationalists” when Indians aren’t even in the top 10 online cliques defending Russia as they do India’s abstention.

        2. Read the room bro (or the comments) .

          Gujju Hindus like urself are not worth the time of even Tamil Hindus , because apparently, u folks go to temples 2 ‘dress up to gossip and socialise.’

          While our pure Dravidian stock ‘Hindus’ are the ones ;carrying their traditions’ on their delicate backs

          🙂

          1. >>Gujju Hindus like urself are not worth the time of even Tamil Hindus , because apparently, u folks go to temples 2 ‘dress up to gossip and socialise.’

            If the Gujju Hindus ever call a Tamil as less Hindu, then even bloody King Charles III cannot save them. Tamils go to war for much less things. Luckily, British Gujju’s are not as obtuse as you, so things aren’t as bleak in Britain.

          2. Oh u can go to war as much as u want, i mean we all saw (in Sri Lanka) what happens when u folks go to war..

    2. > It was nothing more than an India-Pakistan duel.

      Except not really, there are hardly any Pakistanis in Leicester so spare us the victim narrative about it. There was preceding Hindu-Muslim tension in the city according to the local MP, already brought on by zealous recent immigrants from India who are bringing their local domestic politics to foreign countries. The India Pakistan match is actually what started it because Indians mobs started acting like they were still back in India. Going around with masks, bats, vandalizing Muslim shops (which happened to be owned be Indian Muslims) and smashing in cars. Now that the Muslims have gathered and responded, you are crying victim ”oh why are they coming from other cities” ”oh why are they spreading fake news” yadda yadda. Hava nikal gayi itni jaldi? Don’t start trouble and then act suprised why it spreads.. No Hindu Muslim riots that I can recall in the diaspora, ever.. until Bhakts start being over bhakts abroad. The media has picked up on this inconvenient fact and are (rightly) blaming them.

      >If you act violently over something that hasn’t even happened, you’re already 100% worse.

      What is this, Ahimsa university?

  10. It started from cricket match, it started with brawl, it started with provocative solgans, it started because jews were walking with dogs on a muslim street. It started with rss spokesperson coming , it started with harrassment of muslim girls, it started because mosque was attacked, or some muslim man was beaten up, it started with x,y,z. What is not a trigger, what will not be a trigger, anything and everything is but a trigger when the ideology of bigoted hate to unbelievers freely flows in the community.

    But this also explains the past as well, apply this dynamic to history as well. People think they understand religious bigotry, they dont. it bends every excuse to its favor , to give a rational other than religious bigotry while also exhorting religious bigotry. For historians ,left/liberals thats a contradiction. This is also the reason that one should look more closely to modern dynamics of such bigotry to get a real understanding, historical data is no longer possible and when people read the past, they suffer from seeing this simultaneous contradictory explanations coming and either go full right or left. Religion is an enterprise/state/value system that is often in competition with other systems of value. Both values and also politics/law/ enterprise. It is multidimensional. It has to be so, since every value system in order to effectively propagate itself to next generation has to warp the spacetime of society in many ways.

  11. Good lord, this turned into such a fricking roil fest.
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/09/20/leicester-and-the-unravelling-of-multiculturalism/#.Yynhh0JCdVx.twitter
    “Actually, we need to talk about India-bashing specifically. Another disturbing aspect of Leicester has been some people’s attempt to put the blame entirely on the Indian-heritage community; to say it’s all down to people with ‘Hindu nationalist views’.”

    It won’t be long before these people will start justifying Paki position in the 1971 genocide. After all, the moral worth of a Hönda in this oppression olympics is equivalent to the white supremacist boogeyman. Now that’s just wonderful, who doesn’t like to be absolutely screwed from both sides. I won’t invoke cheesy labels laced with woke crockery like “Höndaphobia”, nevertheless this obsessive venom against Indians is nauseating.

  12. Got my family member in India to confess being an american slave, american lackey. Goes to show the power of US soft power in creating useful idiots all around. I consider this one of the many triumphs any individual could ever have in a one to one discussion with a pigheaded ignoramus. It is the summit of debate few people could ever achieve. I doubt even razib could have ever accomplished such as this inspite of his personality to be rough in arguing. living in India, rooting for america, to the extend of defending america in its actions in 1971 war vs India. That is what I mean. In general, in a one to one debate with any pigheaded ignoramus, you could never get them to cofess their traitorous ass. I just am letting the guys here know.
    I must say, brownpundits has been a better source of understanding than what is available on mainstream news/ info. something is going right. good job to all those contributing and maintaining site.

  13. “Charlotte Littlewood
    @CharlotteFLit
    ·
    23h
    Todays search for #RSS terrorists in Leicester sent me on a mad goose chase in which I conclude they are not terrorists. And they are not in Leicester. Bravo Islamists that sent us all on a witch hunt whilst they stand behind us in balaclavas with knives. We have been duped.”
    It doesn’t relate at all. The Guardian looked into reports that the RSS ferried Hindus from London. It was a hoax.
    The Muslim girl kidnapped- a hoax
    A Mosque attacked- a hoax
    It was all kicked off by #Pakistan getting beat by #India at the cricket.
    Please retract this.
    Indian American Muslim Council
    @IAMCouncil
    What is Hindu nationalism and how does it relate to the Hindu supremacist violence in #Leicester, UK
    Read this explainer by
    @HannahEP
    of
    @guardian
    @CJBdingo25
    https://twitter.com/Sumedhapal4/status/1572568604595621888?s=20&t=_BfHSEUXHoLKASEmE5Zmsg
    @thewire_in
    pushed the false allegation that bus loads of RSS supporters were sent the #Leicester. They need to retract it. The Guardian debunk the story.
    Anti-Modi campaigns are going to increase as we head to the 2024 General Election.
    It doesn’t relate at all. The Guardian looked into reports that the RSS ferried Hindus from London. It was a hoax.
    The Muslim girl kidnapped- a hoax
    A Mosque attacked- a hoax
    It was all kicked off by #Pakistan getting beat by #India at the cricket.
    Please retract this.

    No lessons will be learnt, they will now happily continue to create the same narrative all over again. Why?. No costs have been imposed, you must impose legal costs. In this case, wire has to suffer for propagating this lie.

  14. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-63009009
    “Did misinformation fan the flames in Leicester?

    This time it is blamed on misinformation by social media. This proves my point beyond doubt. Bigots make every excuse possible. Its just what it is.
    Osama Bin laden once said, that even were he not muslim and were an arab pagan, even so, he would fight the west. And the interpretation that “scholars” derive from it is that, therefore it is not religion, it is nativism that is the root issue. One cant get through such selfdeluded bsartists.

  15. Seemingly business as usual for the Navratri celebrations in Leicester when many packed venues hosting garba celebrations and Indian restaurants and shops packed with colourfully dressed family groups. Maybe a slightly higher than normal police presence than usual on the streets but it didn’t stick out.

    Good on the Hindu community for turning out in large numbers and keeping the festive spirit going. Diwali should be no different.

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