British India was not a Nation-State

I am just briefly highlighting Calvin’s excellent comment on BB’s thread.

Calvin writes:

Also there was no country or state called British India, it was a part of the British Empire like British Australia or British Kenya. Resting a lot of the system the British developed does not make us a continuation.

Over the last year, I have consistently made the point that there was no nation-state of “India” prior to August 15, 1947. Thus, the Indian and Pakistani nation-states were created at the exact same time.  The argument that India was always there while Pakistan is a made-up entity is a common Indian nationalist trope and is basically just a way of de-legitimizing Pakistan.

This position has gotten me in a lot of trouble on this forum but I stand by it intellectually.  Presumably, now that this same argument has been made by a non-Pakistani and a non-Muslim, it will get a fairer hearing.

Of course, the fact that there was no such thing as an Indian nation-state doesn’t mean there was no sense of a geographic entity called “India”. That has never been my argument.  Prior to British India, there was the Mughal Empire etc.  Most of these geographical entities included what is now Pakistan. It is just a fact that for most of history the land that is now Pakistan has been part of Delhi-based empires. As a Pakistani, I’m absolutely fine with that.   However, it is also true that it was the British who created the borders that are commonly taken to be the natural borders of India.  For example, the Mughals never ruled the Northeast or the very southern bits of India.

I have no problem with BB arguing that the Republic of India is the successor state  of British India.  The arguments about the UN seat etc cannot be argued with. I would simply add that, in some ways, Pakistan is also a successor state of British India. For example, Pakistan inherited the Durand Line–the legal border between British India and Afghanistan.

On a related note: I came across this article about South Korea yesterday which discusses how the South is debating what to officially call the North.

The article notes:

South Korea’s constitution declares in Article 3 that “the territory of the Republic of Korea shall consist of the Korean Peninsula and its adjacent islands”, while Article 4 enshrines a duty of “peaceful unification”. Critics argue that using the North’s official name contradicts both.

While the obvious difference in the India-Pakistan case is that India accepted the Partition and does not claim Pakistan as part of its territory–other than what it refers to as “Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir”–  the comparison is still instructive since one can argue that Koreans are the same people divided by an artificial line.  Similarly until the fall of the Berlin Wall, East and West Germans were the same people divided by an artificial line.

It is important to note that East and West Germans share the same religion.  As far as I know, North and South Koreans also share the same religion.  In the India-Pakistan case, the problems are compounded by the fact that India is a Hindu-majority state while Pakistan is a Muslim-majority one.  There is certainly no desire on the part of 250 million Pakistanis to be ruled from Delhi.

Lastly, I will note that British India also included Burma.  It is interesting to note that there is no angst about Burma being separated from India. In his book, SD referred to the fact that Burma was not seen as part of the sacred land of “Bharat” while Pakistan obviously was.  There also seems to be comparatively little angst about the fact that Bangladesh exists as a separate entity and didn’t merge with West Bengal in 1971.  So clearly the angst is Pakistan specific.  The “Saffroniate” should introspect about why that is.

 

 

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Kabir

I am Pakistani-American. I am a Hindustani classical vocalist and ethnomusicologist. I hold a B.A from George Washington University (Dramatic Literature, Western Music) and an M.Mus (Ethnomusicology) from SOAS, University of London. My dissertation “A New Explanation for the Decline of Hindustani Music in Pakistan” has recently been published in Pakistan by Aks Publications (2024)and in India by Aakar Books (2026) My writing can be read on my Substack "Thoughts of a Bibliophile" https://kabiraltaf.substack.com/ Samples of my singing can be heard on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Le1RnQQJUeKkkXj5UCKfB

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girmit
girmit
16 days ago

I have consistently made the point that there was no nation-state of “India” prior to August 15, 1947. Thus, the Indian and Pakistani nation-states were created at the exact same time.

We tend to conflate administrative polity with the the immaterial nation. I’d further argue that both India and Pakistan are multinational empires.

There also seems to be comparatively little angst about the fact that Bangladesh exists as a separate entity and didn’t merge with West Bengal in 1971. So clearly the angst is Pakistan specific. The “Saffroniate” should introspect about why that is.

Significant parts of the Hindustani linguistic-cultural continuum flow into Pakistan. Delhi barely understands West Bengal let alone BD. They are naturally fixated on people they effortlessly communicate with.

X.T.M
Admin
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

lovely post K – this is Precedent however religion wasn’t a bearing in either Korean or German people formation. The Prussian Empire, which united Germany, was mainly Protestant.

Presumably there no Christians left in Korea.

Also omitting India’s richer pre-Mughal history feels somewhat hostile.

X.T.M
Admin
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

the history of Germany is more complex; the low German countries. we wrote on this recently

https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/04/29/you-cannot-demolish-his-mosque-and-claim-his-high-culture/

X.T.M
Admin
16 days ago
Reply to  girmit

as per usual; your comment stands tallest. it reframes the entire paradigm

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago

I will note that British India also included Burma. It is interesting to note that there is no angst about Burma being separated from India.

I would argue that there is no angst amongst most North Indians for even Bangladesh being a seperate country. However when it comes to Pakistan, the lamentations and obsession hits the roof. There are two very clear reasons for it:

1) Religious significance: of the land of Pakistan which were all the roots of Aryan Hindu religion are found.This was historically not the case but 20th & 21st century research has shown this land to be more ancient and more central to those who see Hinduism as more than just local paganism. The Pakistani civilization is much older which spawned the Indian one after. Vedic religion was developed in Afghanistan and Pakistan, Gandhara was where Sanskrit was formally developed.. and Mehrgarh and IVC are older than anything found in India. Hindutva Indians love to live in the past and tell everyone how old their civilization is, and since they want to claim a link to these civilizations they can’t do that without lamenting over Pakistan.

2) It’s Colorism. This is a general trend all around the world where dark skinned people want to have white skin or want to be associated with having white skin. This problem exists in Africa and other places but it’s just next level in India where lighter skin color is sometimes a marker of higher caste status. Now with DNA results becoming more commonly understood, Steppe ancestry is widely kanged upon while dark skinned SAHG/AASI is universally hated. Indians want to have lighter skinned people as ‘part of your group’ and ‘loss of Pakistan’ as a place with reletively lighter skinned people is lamented, in a way loss of East Bengal or Burma is not. These sorts of accusations are also leveled by Afghan nationalists against Pakistani Punjabis (with a lot of truth to it).

sbarrkum
sbarrkum
15 days ago

There in only one nation state in South Asia through history, Sri Lanka.

From 1815 to 1948 it was British Ceylon
The Dominion of Ceylon, officially Ceylon was an independent country in the Commonwealth of Nations from 1948 to 1972,

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