Just some general thoughts about India-Pakistan pop culture and future trends.
There were some comments in the recent discussions that caught my eye. One was about Pakistanis no longer using memes from recent Indian movies as well as another about Indian soaps being cheesy and badly made. Both are opinions I broadly agree with but there is a certain element that is being missed in such discussions.
Maybe due to the age of the commenters or maybe due to Pakistan not having equivalents, one thing was completely skipped: the rise of Indian streaming.
Due to rising incomes and internet penetration/quality, there has been a deluge of streaming platforms and shows all across India. These include American platforms like Netflix and Amazon Prime as well as dozens of local Indian platforms – JioHotstar, Zee5, SonyLiv etc. Quality of these shows vary, as with everything but freed from the restrictions of TV censorship laws, these shows on an average do tend to be more transgressive and experimental, tackling topics/themes which would simply not find a place in normal cable TV. Also because these are usually seasons of a few episodes rather than a “daily” soap, they tend to be technically of a higher quality. The discerning urban/elite Indian demographic with access to American/global pop culture are the primary audience of these shows.
In a way, memes from these shows are now far more commonplace than memes from movies. And I have seen Pakistanis use these memes along with the memes from older 00s movies (mostly Akshay Khanna comedies). Tbf, even Indians don’t particularly use memes from modern movies. The Pakistani internet does seem to be influenced by the larger Indian internet, adopting trends wholesale (I even saw a Babar Azam edit with music from the second Dhurandhar movie).
As far as Pakistani dramas are concerned, I haven’t watched any nor do I know anyone in my circle who has (and there is a big north Indian contingent). From whatever clips I have seen and what I have heard about them, I assume they are slightly more polished versions of the Indian saas-bahu serial. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a niche for Pakistani dramas amongst the peoples who watch said saas-bahu serials in India. As mentioned above, the more urban/elite class tend to prefer the more “sophisticated” fare on streaming or American/Korean/international shows and don’t particularly care about such daily soaps.
But this leads to an interesting observation. As India becomes richer and liberalizes further, the “desi” values which act as a common thread between both groups of people change. We have seen many disagreements in the comments section of this very site between Indians (living in India) and Pakistanis (living abroad) about liberal values – especially ones regarding female autonomy and the role of religion.
We can also see it in cricket where the Indian cricketers have started to become more like “global” athletes with their tattoos and their model/actress wives/girlfriends. Pakistani cricketers meanwhile very much feel like “good boys” and even the desi swag of Akram/Akhtar has been expunged by the Inzamam tableeghi era.
This could mean that the demographic for Pakistani dramas in India shrink as people get more liberal/”westernized”. Not because the dramas are objectively bad, but simply because the themes/topics will not be topical anymore. I have mentioned about Joyland before so let me elaborate my experience with it further. After it got banned in Pakistan, I was very eager to watch it as I was expecting it to be this transgressive edgy piece of work. I was disappointed to see that it was a very slow, completely inoffensive drama, hardly befitting a ban. Technically it was good but I found the core “halka”. Transgressive in a Pakistani context is not transgressive in an Indian context. Sacred Games way back in 2016 actually had a trans character fully topless with a prosthetic penis attached. And Sacred Games isn’t even particularly some “art” show. It is very much a more refined take on Masala Bollywood with extra violence and sex. As an aside, that actress was a cis Muslim woman – Kubbra Sait, affirming a comment I made about how much Muslims can express themselves in India vis a vis Pakistan, especially women.
But then the reverse is also true. Indian content becoming more violent, more sexualized, more “westernized” and more “ideological” will turn off the more conservative Pakistani masses. If Pakistanis are unable to tolerate the “poison of feminism” in Pakistani dramas (which I would assume is very milquetoast or “halka” feminism to be even made in the first place) then I don’t think they will be able to handle Indian shows which push the envelop even further.
A glance at the Netflix statistics for Pakistan shows Indian content prevalent in both movies and shows.
One can see the much hated Dhurandhar still in the top 10
But then again Netflix is very much the preserve of the elite in Pakistan and hasn’t really penetrated as far as it has in India (which has a 40-100x subscriber difference). So there is a desire for Indian streaming content amongst the Pakistani elite. And it makes sense – they get very well crafted “desi” narratives which push the envelop and appeal to their sensibilities far more compared to the toned down “over-the-top/cheesy” stuff made for the masses.
But then I don’t see the appeal of Made in Heaven or Animal amongst the general Pakistani masses.
So Indian shows/movies in Pakistan in the coming years might transform from “norm” to “niche”. Pakistani shows in India might transform from “niche” to “nothing”.
BRAHM did well with this post: https://www.instagram.com/p/DYAfIVxjUY7/?igsh=bjRydXF5N2Jmcmp6&img_index=1
https://x.com/dryashtiwari/status/2052042850666434739
what do you think about this kerfuffle?
Thought it was very cool. In a way, the most iconic of the MetGala dresses.
She is the Telugu model discovered on the subway.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/etimes/trending/from-subway-to-spotlight-bhavitha-mandava-becomes-first-indian-model-to-open-chanels-metiers-dart-show/articleshow/125802206.cms
Pakistani patriotic ‘denialism’ about Indian cultural impacts in Pakistani contemporary society have a common “brag” about how ‘they and everyone they know’ looks down upon Indian movies as ‘trash’ and the impact and audience is not what it used to be. Another assertion is that ‘memes’ are only based on older Bollywood songs and content – never mind that most memes tend to repurpose ‘classic’ content, the fact is that cultural output from India is no longer just ‘Bollywood’.
Streaming shows such as Mirzapur, the punchy ‘dialogues’ or even scene-nods that require an in-depth context-specific knowledge are common in top Pakistani memes.
But tribal chest-thumping requires over-stating the impact of Pakistani saas-bahu content, while denying the impact of Indian content. Its all so unnecessary.
I would love to see the genuine quality talent from artists across the sub-continent benefit from the Indian mass audience. Guys like Wahab Bugti, Ustad Noor Baksh deserve access to bigger stages, and the commercial earnings that come along with it.
Painful times coming for them as Indian media ascends to global levels like Korean and Japanese earlier.
Indian content and Bollywood in particular is losing popularity among Pakistanis especially the younger generations – primarily because Bollywood has been declining for the past 10 years and especially since the pandemic and coupled with anti-Pakistani and anti-Muslim content that has pushed a lot of Pakistanis away from Bollywood (even if they hate watch out of curiosity) and then there’s the rise of homegrown content and the increasing popularity of short form media, Pakistanis aren’t as interested in Bollywood as they were 10 years back. The decline of Muslim actors has also made Pakistanis feel less relatable to the actors on screen. Another factor for the decline of Bollywood is the music. Bollywood’s popularity mainly rested on its music, even most people never watched the movies they still heard of the songs but ever since the pandemic (2019), there hasn’t been any memorable music from Bollywood while on the other hand Coke studio in Pakistan capitalized on that vacuum and consolidated its hold over Urdu music on the other hand independent artists have gained more success such as the Punjabi music industry based out of Canada. I don’t see Bollywood/Indian content clawing back its peak popularity, it’s never gonna be like the 2010s let alone the 2000s ever again. To be fair, Hollywood has also gone downhill and celebrity culture has died out, people are turning against celebrities and have become celebrities in their own life thanks to social media.
The decline doesn’t really have anything to do with India being supposedly more liberal or “progressive” or the stories becoming increasingly more “transgressive” , Pakistanis are okay with foreigners doing all that, which is why Hollywood was also popular in the past despite a drastically different culture because the Pakistani viewer just saw them as different from themselves, we don’t apply the same moral framework on to them. However for the upwardly mobile urban Pakistanis, Hollywood was already a higher quality alternative to Bollywood – but now even the working class and lower middle class have lost interest due to the aforementioned reasons. I don’t see Bollywood coming out of this rut.
Firstly, the Punjabi music industry based out of “Canada” is dominated by “Indians”, not “Pakistanis”. Born and raised in India, still spend a lot of time in India if not most of their time and most are probably still citizens of India.
Secondly Bollywood/Indian music is still very popular in Pakistan.
Check out most popular artists in Pakistan:
https://open.spotify.com/popular-all/popular-artists/pk
12 out of the top 16 are Indian.
7 of the top 8.
And the only Pakistani in the top 8 is Atif Aslam and all his top songs are his Bollywood work. So the first Pakistani artist whose major work was done in Pakistani media is Maanu at no 10.
Above him is Shashwat Sachdev at no 8.
He was the composer of the Dhurandhar albums.
Like I said, providing me ammunition on your own.
When I mentioned the Canadian Punjabi music industry I was obviously referring to the ones from East Punjab but that’s independent of Bollywood and they speak positively of Pakistanis all the time cause they value the Pakistani market. Overall Bollywood has been in a steep decline. Most of those listeners on spotify (a small percent of Pakistanis) are listening to old tracks from artists like Pritam, AR Rahman and Vishal/Shekar. Every year Bollywood may come up with 2-3 hits now but its not like the constant stream of hits they used to produce over a half century period until the pandemic. That boat has sailed. Pakistanis have lost interest in Bollywood.
Majority of the top 50 songs on Spotify Pakistan are local, not that I give much credence to foreign streaming services as most Pakistanis aren’t on them.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZEVXbJkgIdfsJyTw
Even right now Asim Azhar and Hasan Raheem are on tour in America, selling out venues but no Pakistani is interested in seeing some Bollywood nepo kid.
Still Indian
Top 10 is equally divided between Indian and Pakistani.
And look what is at no 7. Dhurandhar hahaha.
I don’t know if they’re Indian cause Punjabi Sikhs in North America don’t take kindly to being called Indian so I just address them as Punjabi out of respect. Recently some Punjabi singer named Diljit Dosanjh was being criticized by Indians for only mentioning Punjab in some interview he did on a late night show.
Only 1 of those songs in the top 10 is Bollywood and that too from a movie centered around Pakistan. Kind of proves my point that Bollywood has declined significantly, 10-15 years back it probably would’ve made up at least 6-7..