Since all the other threads keep getting derailed by pointless arguing, Admin has decided to open a weekly Open thread for those discussions. This thread will be moderator free so please do not get Admin involved if conversations get nasty. Any and all pointless arguments, insult trading are to be restricted to the “Open Season” thread alone.
What is the point of “pointless conversations?” Does it serve any purpose except reinforce stereotypes?
1. Endlessly relitigating the TNT does not change the present, so why bother?
2. Does it help to argue with “randos on the Internet” (I really liked that term thanks Kabir).
3. What about online safety concerns when the line crosses over to bullying like the Jason Arday case.
4. Is the polytheistic flexible mind clearly a winner over the inflexible Abrahamic one?
5. Do we leave happy with enriching conversations, yet empty and angry with meaningless ones?
6. Should someone be a grammar Nazi (thanks Indo) especially when the primary purpose of language is communication?
Even though this thread will not be moderated, request to all to keep conversations civil.
Pointless conversations may actually not be that pointless. Perhaps it is a form of bonding over shared trauma with different perspectives, even if those perspectives are polar opposites.
My suggestion is to implement a few judicious “ceasefires” rather then create a space for people to insult each other.
I am genuinely trying very hard not to get provoked. But I cannot and will not tolerate any sort of disrespect towards me personally.
I also don’t appreciate insulting comments towards Pak Fauj. Just as the Indians here love their country, Pakistanis love ours. This is unnecessary and only serves the purpose of being offensive.
Indo has been joking about driving me to suicide. This is textbook bullying. At least this should be a red line if nothing else is.
Generally, I don’t think anyone (with the exception of a few people) is actually coming here to have productive conversations. The evidence suggests it’s bored men deciding to bash Pakistan to make themselves feel better.
Kabir literally opting into the Open Season Thread is a choice.
Warning to all; do not misbehave in the other threads .
Also do not carry over animosity into other threads; even if X & Y are raging insults in Open Season Thread, if they write to each other on another thread it must be professional and courtesy.
Also on Open Season Thread (which is different to an Open Thread) no abuse or vile language or threats. Think of it as a playground.
I was making a point.
I have no interest in getting into tit for tats with people.
But I will not stand for jokes about driving anyone to suicide.
You know Indosaurus is being a bully and you should think about why his toxicity is being permitted.
Suppose someone really does commit suicide? What is the moral responsibility of this blog?
This whole thing can be avoided if the ceasefires are simply brought back.
Let us see how this good. We have 6-9 individuals who love to get into scraps.
We will see how the Open Season Threads go; it is not a great idea for the Commentariat to operate on triggers per se.
There have been some fantastic comments on the Tamil CM.
I do think you don’t need moral police Islam & Pakistan; you know very well there is no fuel
Without fire.
Indosaurus is making this site extremely toxic. Things were quite a bit calmer before his return.
I am not going to let Islam be insulted. Just as others don’t let their religions be insulted.
I propose a test, take a 2 week break from the site. I’m happy to take a 4 week break. Lets see what happens.
Been there done that bought the T-Shirt.
People just find someone else to be toxic towards. If not me then Q. If not Q then Calvin.
The problem is that people enjoy being bullies. And you’re not an exception to this.
So for the year I was away, there were no fights on this site?
How about you staying away for a little while, lets see how the conversations go.
Just a little Kabir, cmon, scared of what will be revealed?
I didn’t say you were the only bully.
BB threatened to use a gun on me. But of course you don’t think that’s worth taking seriously.
You are not in a position to get me off this site. Don’t go down this road.
I have no interest in discussing India’s internal matters. But the minute Pak Fauj is insulted, you can expect a response.
Yeah, yeah, you’ve threatened me in all manner of ways, from slivering to god knows what else in your pidgin English, we’ve all lost count.
Point is, I have been off the site, you have not. We only have data on my absence.
Let’s collect some about your absence, else unfortunately everyone will be forced to draw conclusions about your toxicity.
“Pidgin English”– Don’t go down this road. At least I use commas correctly. The same cannot be said for you. By the way, comma usage is taught to us Americans when we are children. Guess they don’t teach it in India.
We had ceasefires where I wasn’t allowed to talk to certain people and they weren’t allowed to talk to me. Things were much calmer.
I’m not getting into a competition with you about who is more toxic.
But I have never threatened anyone with using a gun on them. Neither have I joked about driving someone to suicide.
Haha, you’re a true comma commando, too bad you didn’t learn any words to go along with.
Also you implicitly begged for this toxicity competition by making an accusation, I am only being a gentleman by acquiescing.
Think of your sojourn away from the site as a ceasefire with everybody.
Sweetie, you’ve been joking about driving me to suicide for the past 24 hours.
Don’t gaslight me.
“Too bad you didn’t learn any words to go along with”– That’s not English.
Write in a language you’re actually competent in. You sound like an under-educated halfwit.
You’re by no means a “gentleman”. You’re actually the furthest thing from it.
Look in a mirror for once.
There will be no “sojourn away”. I’m not giving you what you want. You have no power over me.
Think of all the freed up time. You could brush up on your SAT vocab.
Maybe you could study English at the first grade level.
Granted your mother didn’t go to the Convent of Jesus and Mary and wasn’t taught English by actual Irish nuns.
Who the hell do you people think you are?
You have no social class. Low class people antagonizing their social betters.
Oh dear, are you sure you want mummy dearest in this conversation? I mean, it is open season. No need to start slivering, fortunately for you, Indians are too well mannered to bring up parentage.
If you dare to criticize your betters, you will be made to pay.
Go back to your hole now.
You are not worthy of wiping my shoes.
😂 because mummy got smacked by a nun 60 years ago? Fascinating, do tell more.
Hahahaha, have you started fantasising about me? Maybe you’ll get some substack material out of it.
Hahaha, but we’ve all see you, BB posted your pic a year ago. Explains a lot.
Hahaha, but you don’t know that. My wife keeps getting embarrassed when people ask her if I’m a model.
Don’t worry, I saw your little comment about the – does your woman dream of a muslim kashmiri man. I’ll ask her.
Also ‘your woman’ is highly misogynistic btw.
Aww, I’d love to teach you about bell curves and deviations from the mean, but your poor feeble brain isn’t up for the maths, is it.
Lets stick with English remedial class.
“as opposed to what God has left them from among their own kind” is poor sentence construction, amongst works better.
I find it hilarious that you consider yourself a love jihad threat. I’ll bet all the girls swoon when you swan around.
okok, I’m stopping. Chao (Italian for bye :D).
You still don’t know how to use commas. Why is there a comma after “maths”?
“Amongst” is a British term not an American one.
That’s not how you spell Ciao.
Maybe you should first teach yourself English before moving on to Italian.
But then of course your country is full of under-educated half wits.
So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehn, goodbye (though you’re probably too uncultured to get the reference).
People like you trying to teach me culture is too rich. I doubt you know anything about Italian opera, Balzac, Zola, Flaubert….
For someone who keeps on harping about class, this kind of remarks is extremely tasteless and shows lack of class on your end.
Furthermore, you supposedly have enough money that you dont need to work a day in your life, why are you not out enjoying yourself, meeting new people, having the best of food but arguing with randos on the internet?
Exact there has to be respect for BP; I can see Kabir is getting provoked/triggered but regardless one doesn’t have to respond to every provocation/trigger.
Ease up now, move to another thread. Time to exercise that brain again KK, no more easy keyboard bonking.
Kabir doesn’t need to apologise to KK-BB
Why do you want to provoke him, when it is clear nothing will be gained from this?
Yes KK-BB is now also on reprimand, people need to be judicious.
Kabir stop or you will have a 1 week pause.
Needless to say to everyone also stop and desist; this is just getting juvenile.
Kabir, why are you getting so personal? What is so bad about not being convent educated or dark skinned?
Why are you calling people uglu for no reason?
Yes it’s now getting out of hand.
This reminds me, one of my favourite pieces which I wrote for BP and gets almost no airing on my substack is
https://indosaurus.substack.com/p/the-importance-of-being-president
Whatever else the BJP achieves or does not achieve in life. I absolutely love their choice of president.
//Is it OK to joke about driving someone to suicide?//
No it is not.
//Please call out Indosaurus for his behavior over the past three days.
I was really just trying to get under his skin. No offense meant to anyone else.//
I am not his keeper, neither am I yours, but between both of you, it is you who seems to be spiralling that is why I am asking you to desist, it is for your own good. I think these conversations are having a very bad effect on you.
Not giving into provocation is not you being made to sacrifise anything but you being asked to put yourself and your mental health first.
Kabir’s comments are being deleted by the mods until and unless he comprehensively (and unreservedly) apologise.
He also has to apologise to Indo, RNJ, 0M & KK and anyone else he has belittled or demeaned.
This was very disgusting behaviour.
Indians are well mannered?
That’s an oxymoron.
An oxymoron is typically 2 words side by side, maybe 3 at max.
Time for an English remedial lesson?
Hahaha!
Very good one.
And the other person who probably doesn’t have parents taught by Irish nuns or British monks.
Lack of social class always tells.
Do you make enough to even pay rent where you Abbu raised you in America? that is generational regression. Go snap at your maid now.
Oh sweetie, my family has so much money no one needs to work a single day in their lives.
More money than you have probably ever seen in your entire existence. And I mean dollars.
Who do you people imagine you are?
You have hit new lows. No one cares how much money you have, what SAT scores you have, what your family is, who was a US diplomat etc. You sound like some feudal construct from some zamindari era.
You shit and piss like any other human being.
Yes, of course. I’m the problem.
You are ignoring the context that someone here has been joking about driving me to suicide.
The Indian team can do no wrong.
Don’t start with me. I haven’t forgotten your deleted comment about killing Muslims.
You have brought up class far too many times in the few years that i have seen you on this blog. This is a habit amongst you Punjabis ( the degree is far worse with the Pakistani ones ).
You chaps are a feudal construct from a bygone era.
I will stop here since you have brought up suicide far too many times. I don’t want to add fuel to this bushfire.
Do you think joking about driving someone to suicide is acceptable?
Trust you to never call out anyone on your team.
Anyway, you made a comment about killing Muslims that was so unhinged XTM deleted it. You have no moral credibility.
Tell me what you really think about me.
You people are beneath contempt.
Don’t keep bringing XTM up. I don’t care if he deletes or keeps my comments. Your tendency to “run to him” is boring now.
I have seen how others have baited you but you are easy prey. Your ego blinds you.
“You people are beneath contempt”. Case in point.
Good for you.
I don’t take any of you seriously.
You’re only Indians after all. Remember I am a citizen of a civilized first world country.
Go back to your slum.
Your issues go far deeper than the the silly comments on this blog. I wish you well. I mean this seriously.
In the words of one your esteemed countrymen on this blog: “It’s all fun and games” or something like that (I’m paraphrasing).
Let’s not talk about your issues. Anyone who can post about how he would have killed Muslims during Partition clearly has some major problems.
Isn’t it fun to watch him jump through all the speech policing red lines he goes weeping to x.t.m about.
I find it fascinating. I wonder if there is any transgression really left.
I need a challenge, what ‘violation’ can we get our performing monkey to do next.
I’m open to suggestions.
I am quite worried about him actually…
I was too, but then he decided to weaponise my concern, so I just gave up being concerned.
Oh well, he’s probably filled in his national humiliation quota for the day.
Later…
“National humiliation”?
I am an American national. Too bad you didn’t grow up in a proper country.
He will now probably do the usual dance American vs dual citizen dance. His comments have crossed all limits. He has completely lost his senses.
Nope. You are a cherry picking hypocrite. I stand by all my comments. XTM deleting it or keeping it is his problem.
Lamps burn in every house o blind one. Only you cant see them.
Who are you to give someone an opportunity? Who made you a custodian of this blog? You are a liar because you lie about what was written. Over the last three days, you have displayed your hatred for Hindus, Indians, coloured people, Hindu women etc in full glory like a deranged Islamic peacock dancing in the rain.
Over the past three days, your countrymen have displayed their homophobia, misogyny, Islamophobia etc. So I don’t know how i am any worse than anyone else.
Yet I have never been gleeful about images of dead Hindus during Partition. That kind of thing is all you.
Atrocities were committed during Partition–on both sides. Celebrating them is a different matter though.
This is an “Open Season” thread. If I’ve hit some nerves it seems to be working.
If you insist on playing this game with me, believe me I can make you regret that you were ever born.
From now on, you will be referred to as DIP ( Deranged Islamic Peacock). Others are welcome to add the suffix “shit” to it.
OK, gutternsnipe!
Humanities folks tend to be like that. They are often driven more by ideology and aesthetics than by logic. It’s why most people I tend to talk to are engineers or at least trained in the sciences.
“Humanities folks” can at least write coherent English.
Can’t say the same for others.
What part of that sentence was lacking coherence? Perhaps you don’t have anything real to say if you can’t express it in simple English. But alas maybe your Irish nanny missed this while spanking you.
Don’t worry, I’m taking English remedial class for him, he’s coming along nicely. Soon he will be writing at his age level.
I see you are well up to speed on the Moron. Next week we will tackle the Oxy.
I guess you still don’t understand how a conversation is supposed to work. You are supposed to refute a point by identifying the logical errors present in it ideally with an example. Simply saying you cannot argue with you social superiors makes you no better than the average Jaat or Gujjar. But perhaps that is who you really are behind the mask of an English education. A feudal slaver who would suck the vitality out of his own people.
The sad part it that he’s probably taking out his frustration with us on his servants at home.
Unfortunately in Pakistan, there isn’t a lot anyone can do about it.
This is honestly the most stupid argument you’ve made yet.
Why would I hold anyone else responsible for your behavior?
Let me change a few words in your own remark and see how you like it:
“The sad part is that he’s probably taking out his frustration with us on his wife and children”.
Still don’t understand comma usage I see.
There shouldn’t be a comma after “Pakistan”.
I’m not frustrated at all. You yourself have said it’s all “fun and games”.
Hahaha, the difference is, you are my relaxation, all my stresses melt away when you start jumping through my hoops. Hop monkey boy, hop.
“You are my relaxation”– that is a deeply sad commentary on the emptiness of your life.
Also I’m demoting you from comma commando to comma private for inaccurate identification of comma again.
Oh dear, poor private bir keeps failing in honour of his failed head of state.
Comma again? It’s ok, I’ll dumb down the wordplay for you next time.
See how much fun this is, simple word trap and you went rushing headlong in.
It’s just too easy 😂, you can hardly call this bullying.
What is bullying is joking about driving someone to suicide.
You have immense delusions of grandeur.
I really don’t care what you think of me. You’re a rando on the internet. You have no impact on my actual life and no actual ability to hurt me.
I just think it’s deeply sad that you can think of nothing better to do than bullying people on the internet.
You are a deeply hateful and sad person.
The frustration leaking through his comments is quite obvious. Failed attempts to throw his weight around on BP comments are the pinnacle of his daily accomplishments.
Its always those the empty vessels who bark loudest to try and cover up their insecurities. In a way he’s a microcosm of the institutions he professes loyalty to – Pak phauujj etc.
Tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night.
Don’t attempt to educate me. My credentials are in the public sphere. Yours aren’t.
Hey! As a Jat, I take offence to these comparisons! Western UP and Haryanvi Jats are not some feudal lords. My grandparents toiled hard in the fields and my cousins do so on the intersections of Delhi’s roads (Delhi Police is the new khet lol).
The Punjabi Jatts though…
Tbf Harayanvis have done a decent job governing their state. Gurgaon might not be a perfect Tier 1 city but its probably one of the better Tier 2 cities in India. Although I have had enough encounters with Thar riders from those parts of the country to understand the plight of the Dravidians.
Punjabi Jatts on the other hand still think Punjab is the richest state in the country and live life according to those principles. I remember seeing the craziest headline coming out of Punjab where some landlord had enslaved a Bihari laborer for almost a decade.
Save your worries for someone who cares.
I don’t need crocodile tears from Indians.
I have never threatened anyone that I would make them chant a religious slogan at gunpoint.
BB is still the winner of this competition.
I have never stated that I would have killed members of the opposing religious community during Partition. That was Archer.
Don’t worry. I enjoy watching you all reveal yourselves as the guttersnipes you are.
In your own words “it’s only kidding around”.
Can dish it out but not take it?
As for “performing monkey”– You all are the ones with a monkey god.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2965-Sandra-Pl-Palo-Alto-CA-94303/19498371_zpid/
Like this?
Nice try.
You have no idea who you are talking about.
Kabir, I clock all comments. This isn’t very good to write..
Remember there is a lot of “social weight” assigned to moderation in BP.. so it’s important that while the mods don’t read everything; iconic lines (you all are lower class) stick in the general impression..
Right.
And joking about driving someone to suicide has not been criticized in this same manner.
I have been relentlessly bullied for three days by one person. But my calling out lower class behavior is the problem.
Selective moderation.
Exactly. To add, neither of us has the bandwidth to police / referee the threads constantly.
1. We expect commentators to police themselves.
2. Exercise the choice of no response if the conversation starts getting inflamed.
3. There’s a difference between having a conversation on topics and on each other. Refrain from the latter.
4. There will be no latitude provided on the other threads. Just straightforward deletion in case of derailment from the topic under discussion.
Same person who demands ‘ceasefires’ inserts himself into other conversations and provokes chaos. The pattern has repeated too many times not to be called out.
You are the one who used the word “beghairat”. Those are fighting words. Don’t pretend innocence.
Some conversations that have already been settled many times and should be in the pointless thread :
1) Gurdaspur partition.
2) Kashmir was Muslim majority therefore should have gone to Pakistan.
3) India ‘invaded’ East Pakistan, there was no genocide in Bangladesh by Pakistan.
4) Pakistan has nukes and therefore it can never disintegrate.
5) Jalal’s take that Jinnah did not want partition.
6) Flip-flop on Nehruvian/Equality/Secularism and Feudalism/Elitism/Communalism when convenient.
For once, I actually agree with you.
I would be very happy if people on this site didn’t feel the need to constantly hold referendums on the existence of Pakistan.
XTM has already asked that TNT not be litigated.
Gratuitous criticism of Islam should be on this list. It serves no purpose and is only designed to provoke.
I don’t mind academic conversations about history but it has to go beyond simple point-scoring against the enemy state.
You misunderstand me. Indian nationalists, like myself, have settled the points that I mention above in India’s favor over and over until you and others either run away or start calling us names.
How can a referendum on existence of Pakistan be done by Indians? It is there! does not need India’s acceptance. Vajpayee said this and much more at Minar-e-Pakistan no less.
XTM can speak for himself. If there is a genetic flaw of feudalism-elitism (that you display), and militarism-militancy in Pakistan why should it not be discussed? Same with Islam and Muhammad. Nothing is above criticism and scrutiny and humor. If you have a valid well thought out point on things wrong with Hinduism why should you not get to speak about it openly? Stopping any discussion is just preparing grounds and dog whistling for violence like Charlie Hebdo.
Pak Fauj will be discussed.
Existence of Pakistan and logic of TNT are two different things.
Pakistan exists because no one within it or outside it has the spare-strength, need and will to undo it.
If you think anyone can undo the world’s only Muslim-majority nuclear power, you have another think coming.
Yes, I think many things can undo Pakistan. Half the country is burning with insurgency, not talking about it will not stop it. What is with all the empty threats?
I have even presented ways to avoid it: dismember Afghanistan while there is still a window, remove special constitutional status of PoK, maybe try making new provinces, make Imran PM, Atif Mian the Finance minister, exile Munir, …
Calm BB
You underestimate Pakistani nationalism.
In fact the PTI supporters are the most nationalistic Pakistanis; they reject ethnicity and want their Pakistan & Islam together.
Mahira Khan said an interesting thing; the generation of the 40 somethings are the last to really feel IndoPak unity as one since they listened to their grandparents about the other side.
It feels people under 20/30 are just going to feel India & Pakistan as very settled propositions.
Yawn @ BB. You miss him like he is your BB.
I actually like what is happening to Imran. It is bad for Pakistan. He was capable of first principles thinking, had confidence, and legitimate authority.
Where did I underestimate? I am just pointing out PTM, JAAC, Mahrang Baloch, … and the more militant organizations … cumulatively mean there is serious risk.
I don’t believe in Pak-India unity either. I think it is pretty settled. India’s older generation was far too generous with Pakistan: stopping war in 48, returning war criminals in 71, a lopsided IWT, Kashmir Jihad, Punjab, not retaliating after 99, or Mumbai. Returning land multiple times! what kind of idiots do that? Large swathes of Shakargarh were conquered twice, army was at Ichogil canal in 65, thousands of square miles in Sindh … I just don’t understand this. What is the point of winning if you extract no flesh? So much generosity, large-heartedness and see the pure hatred Pakistanis have for us today.
I believe in give and take, carrots and sticks. We give Pakistan water, they give us roads. They kill our men in cold blood … we retaliate. They ask for Kashmir, we ask for PoK. They poke us with Junagarh, we go for Chitral. Not just reactively though, proactively too like the Chenab-Beas link tunnel and the rail+port to Afghanistan.
You wouldn’t believe the lengths India has gone to placate Pakistan in the past. For example, The under-sluice gates of the Salal Dam, built at great cost, were plugged with concrete in April 1978 following a bilateral agreement with Pakistan. Plugging the gates prevented standard sediment flushing. As a result, the reservoir filled with silt rapidly, destroying the long-term utility of the hydropower plant. What kind of idiot does such self-harm?
I agree with you that Pakistan exists and will continue to exist no matter what Indians think about it. But there are certain people on this site who insist on re-litigating TNT every few days. It’s what floats their boat. We get constant discussions of “apartheid”.
You can believe you have “settled” whatever points you want. I and other Pakistanis don’t agree with your interpretation. And we never will. Hence the discussion is pointless.
If I criticize the Ramayana I get yelled at for “Hinduphobia”. It’s not too much to ask that people refrain from insults to the Holy Quran. That’s Islamophobia pure and simple. “Dog whistling for violence like Charlie Hebdo” is not a good argument.
If the Hindus here don’t want their religion trashed, they better refrain from trashing Islam. It’s as simple as that.
If you insult Pak Fauj, I will deal with you. I will never accept anyone insulting my army.
Phobia is fear. People don’t ‘fear’ Islam/Hinduism. Misia is probably a better alternative, but has a overly negative meaning.
“You can believe you have “settled” whatever points you want. I and other Pakistanis don’t agree with your interpretation. And we never will.”
You couldn’t produce counter points when given the opportunity, ran away and then repeat same BS every week. That just makes you look illogical and stupid.
“If you insult Pak Fauj, I will deal with you. I will never accept anyone insulting my army.”
Hahaha!
You run away crying every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. People humiliate you, you trip on your own feet, unable to come up with a coherent, logically sound counter argument you first accuse others of homo-misia, trans-misia, Islam-misia, … whatever … which is followed by hysteric insults. It is boring man, play a new tune, get better at arguing or examine your views, maybe what we are saying is correct. Write good arguments, I promise I will listen and change my views if I find them convincing. Don’t give empty threats.
I have no issues whatsoever with Hinduism being trashed, people litigate Shri Ram day in and day out to the point I now know all the angles of approach and defenses. Modi being trashed, BJP being trashed, Army chief who-gives-a-fuck Singh being trashed, Gandhi being trashed … just be logical and consistent. Present good arguments, have open-ness to change your own views, and willingness to listen to counter arguments. People will reciprocate.
Certain basic abilities are prerequisites to swim in that section of the pool. Some folks just prefer to pee in the kiddie pool over and over instead.
“You run away crying”– None of you can make me cry. I don’t take any of you seriously. Most of you are beneath contempt.
“I have no issues whatsoever with Hinduism being trashed”– Maybe you personally don’t but most people on here get extremely upset.
I am not going to tolerate Allah, the Holy Quran or the Prophet of God being abused. That’s not up for negotiation.
I am not asking for permission or negotiating free speech. This is written anonymous word, Pak army actually shoots people with guns, and your Allah can take it up with me himself. Although beware of your dog whistling and ground work against minorities, atheists and rationalists. You are a gay man in a Islamic country, Sharia is very clear on your matters, you are setting a bad precedent with all the ‘I am not going to tolerate’ nonsense.
My sexuality is between me and Allah.
You think that there aren’t gay and bi men in Pakistan? The state cannot enforce the law (a British law by the way and not Shariah) because it requires people to actually witness sexual contact. Most people have sex in the privacy of their bedrooms.
There is no absolute free speech on this site. If anti-Hindu rhetoric is not allowed (and it isn’t) anti-Islamic rhetoric should not be allowed either.
The admin deletes comments as and when they see fit. Therefore, absolute free speech doesn’t exist here. Take it up with the powers that be.
There is no call for Allah or the Prophet of God to ever be spoken of disrespectfully–under any circumstances whatsoever.
“My sexuality is between me and Allah.”
I think it is pretty settled in the eyes of Sharia.
Free speech may not exist because of people like you who lay the groundwork for violence. But there is ALL the reasons for Muhammad and his God to be spoken of with irreverence and disrespect. What to even say of Muslims, Pak Fauj, Jinnah, whatever …
I don’t live in Pakistan, and you cannot do shit about it. Your kind has plans to dominate and brainwash the rest of us with these schemes, we have better plans to dominate you. Results are for everyone to see.
“I don’t live in Pakistan”– So what?
Brown Pundits has rules. Take it up with the Admin.
“I think it is pretty settled in the eyes of Sharia”– Why are you so concerned about Sharia?
Keep digging a hole for yourself.
Referendum on Pakistan can only be done by Pakistanis. Litigating the evil and villainy of the logic of TNT, Direct Action Day, and the ML fanned violence of partition is only normal. Even if Indians are magically able to convince Pakistanis that Jinnah and his party were communal imperialist stooges that still does not mean Pakistan ceases to exist. That boat has sailed a long time ago.
What is the point of litigating TNT, Direct Action Day etc?
What are you getting out of it? It’s a serious question.
Why does China still discuss the Rape of Nanking, Why does Korea still litigate the topic of comfort women? Perhaps ask yourself these questions and you’ll get the answer.
Well, you’re not changing the minds of the other side.
If it provides you catharsis by all means go ahead.
You learn, and don’t repeat the same mistakes. You see how demagogues work, you see the end result of entertaining illegitimate demands in the name of tolerance and charity: the separate electorate, Khilafat, how communal poison is spread in society, how the perverse is made into routine, how neighbors turn on neighbors, you recognize foreign stooges, the unworthy, you question the wisdom of the ‘saahibs’, you look for traits to encourage and signs watch out for. With the benefit of hindsight you can see the rampant anti semitism and bigotry among Muslims and what they actually mean vs what they say to the naive lelis in the west.
Pakistan is the laboratory of Islam, we are seeing the wisdom of TNT: religiosity, Islam, bigotry, feudalism, elitism, militancy, military-ism run infront of our eyes.
Modi in one of his speeches was feigning concern over Muslim deaths. And I could see right through the perversity of what was actually being said because I had read Jinnah’s speeches.
Just like you have criticisms of Pakistan, I have criticisms of India.
It’s not helpful for us to constantly talk past each other.
Pakistanis have great respect for the Quaid. Insulting him is not going to win you any hearts and minds.
But you do you.
This thread is a great idea.
Can we set it up so that any accusations of the entire phobia card deck gets automatically transferred to this thread.
It’s ended up derailing the main thread a couple of times and ruined some good discussions.
If you feel specifically targeted on a regular thread, mail a moderator, or reply here.
I will no longer check in on online safety, if you are on this thread you are doing so voluntarily as an adult and are fully responsible for your own mental state.
Also I propose BP4chan as the thread name.
I think we have to also institute safeguards to pro-actively assess contributions emotional and mental health as well.
I do also think in “Open Season” everyone acknowledges their biases.
Vande Mataram
Bharat Mata Ki Jai
Jai Hind
Pakistan Zindabad
Shona r Bengal
Can all co-exist as concepts and have done so for millennia pre-colonisation.
I tried, but the checking in has been taken to be some sort of abuse in itself and sort of defeated the purpose, instead opening another line of victimhood. Even the cleanest room will provide dirt if you clomp in with muddy boots.
Yes that’s for the mods..
The reason I don’t want to limit the threads; is among the heavy volume of comments there are some interesting nuggets..
Though the IndoPak focus takes away from a more interesting cleft; the Aryan-Dravidian fault line.
What if Pakistan & Bangladesh had been Hindu, right now the Aryan-Dravidian divide would have been far more interesting from a religious-linguistic perspective..
Also even Dravidian Muslims are a minority, most of their counterparts have switched to Urdu. So apart from Tamil-speaking Muslims and the Moppilahs, there are very few non-Urdu speaking Muslims in India (I suspect Calcutta Muslims are very Urdu dominated).
So even Urdu is an Aryanisation-Gangetic vector.
Haha, why Urdu, there’s a gentleman who sometimes helps out at my fathers workplace. Last time he proudly told me – ‘I’m learning Arabi’, when I asked why, he said he had been kicked out by his wife and had taken to sleeping in the mosque where they were teaching it.
Arabi via fight with bibi.
That’s one of the interesting undercurrents in Karnataka politics now. Muslims were in many ways more culturally “national” by virtue of their proficiency in hindustani. They watch bollywood not “sandalwood” and are more tuned into delhi-based poltical discourse. They had also been on a trajectory of softly distancing themselves from Kannada in order to more seemlessly integrate with the pan-Indian muslim culture. But now they find themselves cohabiting a political tent with the regionalist , pro-kannada activists, as that is one of the only stable redoubts of resistance to hindu nationalists at the centre. Its a very interesting example of a nascent political pact based on negative partisanship leading to coalition ideological convergence.
I have a slightly different opinion. The muslims (both educated and semi educated ) of north karnataka speak fairly fluent Kannada, with local accent.
However, in South karnataka, the Kannada fluency of younger Muslims in reducing. Loss of Kannada medium might also have contributed, and also influx of Muslims from other states might also be a factor.
In Bangalore I’ve noticed that Shivajinagar/cantonment muslims are mostly from families that migrated from erstwhile Madras presidency and they have a bit of Anglo-Tamil inflection to their Urdu, whereas the City Market area seems like the legacy of Mysorean muslim settlement, + other Karnataka with later layers of Memons and Bohris. The fact that we don’t hear a lot of intentional Kannada in the Shivajinagar to Fraser town area has as much to do with competing against English and Tamil. The Cunningham rd stretch is its own subculture of cosmopolitan Iranis, with only 4-5 generations of being in India at all.
Shi’ites presumably?
mostly, like mirza Ismail, whose nephews are the famous Hillalys of Pakistan.
Yes, this specific Irani community is shia. Many were important horse traders in the 1800s and others like Mirza Ismail , as formerly brown mentioned, were recruited as administrators and diplomats by the princely state. They are a fixture of old money banglore society.
This sounds like a good post idea actually. Not sure if you have authorship? Would you be inclined to write?
I’m not sure if i do. If i think of a post idea around it I’ll reach out to request it.
Do you know any books or research papers that can give more insight on these kind of migrations?
In general or specific to muslim ethnography in Bangalore? If I come across anything I’ll share it here.
Specific to muslim.ethnography.
There are many books on history of bangalore in particular but on how many groups came here we have lesser information.
https://youtube.com/shorts/5MTNi1rJ1QM?si=bKO4i7PUFYaMCJU5
Iranian horse traders…
Forgive me if I don’t trust your motivations at all.
Your thinking that you have that much power over me that I’m going to harm myself because of you is delusional.
I have dealt with White bullies. Indians can’t hurt me whatsoever.
hear hear.
I really fail to understand if anyone actually enjoys these shouting matches?
What’s the point? Why create this kind of toxicity?
There’s something very wrong with the incentives of people on this site.
If you want to fight with people go on X.
Guy who constantly baits shouting matches does not understand why the other side also likes to shout back at him.
“He started it” is a kindergarten level response.
You’re not helping your case.
I only react if I am personally disrespected, Islam is disrespected or Pak Fauj is disrespected. Otherwise, I don’t care what you say.
It isn’t as if any of us shout or threaten, or really anything, mostly just kidding about.
It’s an open challenge to find a single shouty comment I’ve made.
Earlier our cities and towns used to have an odd Gurkha, who would collect his fees /bhaksheesh in the first week of every month. now we see their women folk joining them and working as housemaids.
This migration will increase exponentially after the Nepal floods. Their elites are oblivious to this.
I hope not. At the end of the day I hope Nepal prospers alongside India. Their migration numbers have been rather alarming for a while now. In several geographies Nepalis actually match the number of Indian immigrants despite being a much smaller populous.
Why are Hindu Nepalis, alarming?
The rate of migration is too high for a population their size. Large portion of their youth population lies outside their own country while the TFR collapses internally. Its the worst of both world coming together.
Isn’t that a good thing; borders should really be flowing in the Indian Subcontinent, where possible..
Borders of India were/are open for for everyone from Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar. With some restrictions, the opposite is also true. Pakistan and Afghanistan are the only exceptions.
Since the Manipur riots this open border legacy wrt Myanmar and the border states of India is being questioned. Similarly, With Bangladesh, the same is now being made tougher. With Nepal, this will never change. The communities inter marry and live as if the border really doesn’t exist. This open border policy is precisely what the Pakistanis exploit for fake note smuggling into India through Nepal and Bangladesh.
The border of Nepal with India is in the plains. The hill people are the dominant political elites of Nepal.
There is an existing fault line which simmers at times. This might become part of India sometime in the future.
The plain Nepal population also has a Hindu Muslim problem.
I think this thread should be deleted.
It will give anyone who visits the site a very bad impression of all concerned.
I apologize for any intemperate remarks.
As Indo has repeatedly said “it’s all fun and games”.
I got him to admit that bullying me is his “relaxation”. I rest my case.
Isn’t this why we chat on the internet. R&R. What other purpose is there?
I admit I find all my interactions with you quite enjoyable, sometimes even the easy wins are cheering.
If you feel bullied, you were given the opportunity to stop an infinite number of times.
Also, the thread needs to stay up for posterity. We cannot have you weaponising victimhood about the very offences you perpetually perpetrate on others.
You do realize you don’t come across in a positive manner.
Admitting that you find bullying someone “relaxing” is actually deeply sad. It says a lot about the quality of your life.
Get help.
XTM has expressed many time that he hopes people come to BP to learn from each other. This thread is not an example of that.
You can keep telling yourself you’ve “won”. You haven’t won anything. You’ve only served to demonstrate again and again that you’re not very smart and a bully.
I know my own worth. Nothing you’ve said to me can damage that.
Grow up.
You need to apologise for your racist remarks.
They were ugly and disgusting.
Your next comment better be an unreserved apology for
Racism, Colourism, Classism, Elitism, Hinduphobia, Dravidianphobia (“southie”) and abuse, which you have done plenty of in this thread. And also to whoever you directed those comments about.
Also demeaning their parents.
Otherwise you won’t be allowed to comment again.
I’ve already apologized for any offensive remarks. I’m happy to do so again for the record.
However, joking about driving someone to suicide is–in my view– a far more serious transgression than anything I have done. I’d like to see that treated with appropriate seriousness.
I was under the impression that this was an unmoderated thread where we were allowed to be as nasty to each other as we pleased. But I guess that’s not the case.
This whole “Open Season” thread was a bad idea and I’m sorry I ever got involved.
You will need to apologise specifically for:
Your Racism
Your Hinduphobia
Your Dravidia (Southie)
Your Colorism
Your Elitism
Your Classism
Your use of Abusive and foul language
You will need to apologise, atone and retract for each of this. You may never bring about any of these points again.
You will also need to apologise to Indo, RNJ, 0M and NDG for being rude and curt with them. I do not care whether they provoked you or not but you have crossed a line.
KK-BB does not need an apology.
This will have to be done for you to be able to comment again.
No excuses, I already checked with you beforehand on the Safety Protocol. Your behaviour has been inexcusable regardless if even the thread was a free-for-all..
Personally, I am not offended that Kabir called me mean things as those tend to bounce off my thick skin. The real issue is the insults he choose display his own normative preferences. The fact that he thought words like dark skinned and southie were insults shows his own biases in these subjects. Furthermore, the Punjabi chauvinism added on top of it all made for an immensely toxic mix which almost seemed out of the pages of Mein Kampf. It identified what he considered a lesser people (Untermensch) and an upper people (Ubermensch).
The most offensive thing that Kabir did isn’t that he decided to insult anybody. Its what he showed about his own beliefs through those insults.
+1
I don’t know about you, but I’ve always considered people with excellent command over a local tongue to be a very high status attribute.
English is the work language, we use it for commerce and to build our careers.
But amongst my colleagues, batchmates and relations, high vernacular was also a status symbol. There is little commercial gain to be had, and I’m always regretful over playing the hooky during mother tongue class.
I have similar sentiments as well. I am decent at speaking my mother tongue, local languages, etc but my primary language has become English because I use it so often during work. Half my life is work at this point, makes it hard to keep up with the same reading speed in my mother tongue as I have with English. Which remains a sore spot for me.
+1
I remembered two instances:
a. Waqar Younis praising Rizwan for offering Namaz in the middle of Hindus : https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JWAuGf0zqx0
b. A commentator praised Pakistani for defeating the kafir after a cricket match.
Pakistan seems to have successfully mainstreamed Hindu hatred.
+1
You will also need to apologise to Indo, RNJ, 0M and NDG for being rude and curt with them.
Thanks for this but personally speaking, I am ok without any apologies. I understood Kabir long ago and learnt to not take him seriously. His value adding contributions on this blog are a minuscule percentage of his total volume of output so I just ignore most of what he says.
Personally, all I really want out of all this is not to be repeatedly accused of islamophobia, homophobia, misogyny in my very commonplace throw away comments.
Safe spaces are an excellent idea, but it also really kills a conversation if someone perpetually jumps in with a false accusation.
Intent and context need to count for something.
Moderators cannot keep policing red lines out of context.
yeah, no value in fake apologies – he’s hurled such skin-color, religion, class insults repeatedly at me. I could care less, they reflect more on him and his values than anything else.
Cmon man, you don’t really want an apology do you? It’s more about making this site a relaxed place again with easy flowing conversations.
Do you need to make new left field demands? Let mods decide.
Be chill, contribute happily.
+ve vibes.
I think the benefits of free speech absolutism in anonymous online threads outweigh the costs. When Samudramanthan happens, halahala will flow.
Let the poison flow, that way people here will know what they are dealing with. Anonymous written word is the safest way to listen to the inner voice of other people. If we don’t find it out here the consequences could be worse in real world, when some will shout STSJ, STSJ … or hold racist, elitist, communal, bigoted views.
+♾️ on the ideology. But it’s up to the mods, how they want this place to run.
I’ve found on Substack that sometimes you need to block people who have come with a the sole intent of being disruptive.
So absolutism ideals get clipped up with the censor scissors when you end up responsible for the decor.
to be honest I wasn’t really checking the Open Season thread but I get comments in a feed so when I saw K’s comments that’s what alerted me..
all Emotionalism & fun and games for the Open Season, but even there it has to be above board.
Stop lying Kabir, it’s enough. I checked for your mental safety multiple times, for obvious reasons, and out of genuine concern. I never joked about it.
The point of this thread was to be silly and blow off steam without worrying about moderation. It was also to ensure that other threads did not get derailed with personality tiffs.
As in any conversation, be it offline or online the one thing Admin expects of all commentators is to be respectful of the space and also to not denigrate people. I completely understand the occasional outburst, not a continuous tirade.
It is very much in our own control whether to get triggered and respond to provocation.
Different people respond differently to provocation.
I’m sorry that you felt cornered and lashed out, but please do not use language like that again. If not for anyone, for XTM and the grace that he shows to everyone here.
I have removed Kabir’s comments unless he retracts, apologises and promises never to repeat such behaviour.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I am happy to apologize to you.
Sorry for provoking you in anyway Kabir. I reacted because I was absolutely shocked at your comments over the last 2-3 days. I was and remain genuinely concerned about your well being.
1) what is Mohan bhagavat trying to convey and to whom??
2) what message is the base getting?
3) who ever wants to listen to a preachy uncle?
Something wrong.
Sry. Offline for a bit.
Mohan Bhagavat is simply going through the usual RSS talking points. Any body who has heard him talk has heard these points several times. The base is large and diverse enough even in the RSS that it requires these very general and vague statements to stay together in an umbrella coalition. The RSS upper brass has always been preachy uncles, get used to it. They aren’t macho hindutva paramilitary leaders as the NYT or Bloomberg might make them out to be. They are glorified social workers simply doing their job in a large enough geography and for a large enough populous that their leader matters thats all.
Stop lying Kabir. My words were a 100% genuine check for your safety and only talked about self harm.
Check the transcripts. None of my comments have the word suicide.
You are fabricating falsehoods to portray yourself as the victim again
I am getting sick of these lies. This is not a he said, she said. All my comments stand on this site, people are free to check every one of them.
Calvin, please stop humouring his lies.
You are lying, you cannot back up your assertion with a single proof, I am happy to paste every single comment i have made.
Stop lying. I don’t care if you trust or do not at this point.
You just gaslight yourself. The physics of it are quite amusing to contemplate.
Hahaha. Farm to table.
More lies, I haven’t complained about your ego. On the contrary I’ve often talked of your inferiority complex.
Always happy to wipe the slate clean, but you keep making false accusations of homophobia whatnot to censor me. These episodes are purely of your making.
Upto you how this moves forward.
Not going to respond if you refrain from accusing me again.
I made this argument before and people were outraged, but honestly now even many Indians are realizing the truth:
https://x.com/RifatFaez/status/2094008354083574128?s=20