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	Comments on: Problems with the terms INDIC and DHARMIC	</title>
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	<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/</link>
	<description>A discussion of all things Brown..</description>
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		<title>
		By: Nachiketa		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75885</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nachiketa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2020 03:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75885</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75869&quot;&gt;Deep Bhatnagar&lt;/a&gt;.

Definitely - both Indic and Dharmic r better than South Asia.
I was actually nitpicking here. Its more of my PetPeeve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75869">Deep Bhatnagar</a>.</p>
<p>Definitely &#8211; both Indic and Dharmic r better than South Asia.<br />
I was actually nitpicking here. Its more of my PetPeeve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deep Bhatnagar		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deep Bhatnagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2020 21:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75353&quot;&gt;Nachiketa&lt;/a&gt;.

I prefer either Indic or Indian Subcontinent to South Asia esp. in terms of topics related to regional Histories, religious histories etc.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia
Note - The region term &#039;South Asia&#039; claims to denote.

The reason i prefer Indic because it clearly does 2 things -

1. Clarify about the region being discussed compared to South Asia {Many papers now use the term South Asia for all the regions mentioned above thus becomes difficult to get research papers abt. a particular region}.
2. Helps one in identifying what &#038; which period is being discussed. {As use of term Indic can be restricted to Histories of Dharmic cultural milieu}

Point being different terms can be introduced according to divergences of regions &#038; then regions should be mentioned clearly acc. to modern times to avoid confusion &#038; for ease of readers for contemporary research.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75353">Nachiketa</a>.</p>
<p>I prefer either Indic or Indian Subcontinent to South Asia esp. in terms of topics related to regional Histories, religious histories etc.</p>
<p><a href="https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia" rel="nofollow ugc">https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia</a><br />
Note &#8211; The region term &#8216;South Asia&#8217; claims to denote.</p>
<p>The reason i prefer Indic because it clearly does 2 things &#8211;</p>
<p>1. Clarify about the region being discussed compared to South Asia {Many papers now use the term South Asia for all the regions mentioned above thus becomes difficult to get research papers abt. a particular region}.<br />
2. Helps one in identifying what &amp; which period is being discussed. {As use of term Indic can be restricted to Histories of Dharmic cultural milieu}</p>
<p>Point being different terms can be introduced according to divergences of regions &amp; then regions should be mentioned clearly acc. to modern times to avoid confusion &amp; for ease of readers for contemporary research.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nachiketa		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75414</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nachiketa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2020 08:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75414</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75382&quot;&gt;Nachiketa&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;em&gt; What % of Hindu trads actively ridicule other Dharmic faiths like manasataramgini does? He has called Buddha all sorts of name, he has frequently referred to Mahavira as “nagna” (definitely not an epithet that has been used by Jains or others)..He actively denigrates other Indic faiths and personalities but I think he is an extreme fringe element.. 
&lt;/em&gt;
Does he ? I don&#039;t follow him closely &quot;manasataramgini i mean&quot; &#038; I haven&#039;t seen Srikant make those comments.
If they do then i strongly feel its in bad taste. 

&lt;em&gt;
Also, I find his obsession with varna quite odious. He has ranked varnas from v1, v2, v3, v4,.Here Srikanth K also agrees mostly when he talks about practices and beliefs percolating **down** from V1/Brahmins to others.. But I wonder if the goal is forge Hindu unity (and here I mean Sanatanis not other Indics) how does this V1 /V4 nonsense help?
&lt;/em&gt;
It does appear patronizing but often i feel tweeter leads to such simplifications! Shrikant is conservative about  benefits of Varna/Jati while giving away the &quot;problems&quot; with these systems - i dont want to be putting words in his mouth - but I don&#039;t think that is the intention - of course Srikanth can clarify]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75382">Nachiketa</a>.</p>
<p><em> What % of Hindu trads actively ridicule other Dharmic faiths like manasataramgini does? He has called Buddha all sorts of name, he has frequently referred to Mahavira as “nagna” (definitely not an epithet that has been used by Jains or others)..He actively denigrates other Indic faiths and personalities but I think he is an extreme fringe element..<br />
</em><br />
Does he ? I don&#8217;t follow him closely &#8220;manasataramgini i mean&#8221; &amp; I haven&#8217;t seen Srikant make those comments.<br />
If they do then i strongly feel its in bad taste. </p>
<p><em><br />
Also, I find his obsession with varna quite odious. He has ranked varnas from v1, v2, v3, v4,.Here Srikanth K also agrees mostly when he talks about practices and beliefs percolating **down** from V1/Brahmins to others.. But I wonder if the goal is forge Hindu unity (and here I mean Sanatanis not other Indics) how does this V1 /V4 nonsense help?<br />
</em><br />
It does appear patronizing but often i feel tweeter leads to such simplifications! Shrikant is conservative about  benefits of Varna/Jati while giving away the &#8220;problems&#8221; with these systems &#8211; i dont want to be putting words in his mouth &#8211; but I don&#8217;t think that is the intention &#8211; of course Srikanth can clarify</p>
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		<title>
		By: phyecon1		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phyecon1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2020 07:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75393&quot;&gt;justanotherlurker&lt;/a&gt;.

quite correct.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75393">justanotherlurker</a>.</p>
<p>quite correct.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sumit		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sumit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2020 01:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If we replace Dharmic with Karmic would that work ?


Jains, Buddhists, Hindus, and Sikhs all believe in Karma.


It isn&#039;t derogatory towards non-Karmic religions. A-dharmic is bad, but a-karmic is meaningless.


Karma is basically cause / effect so it also helps religious Indians be more open to western scientific advances as more detailed understandings of Karma. 


Alternatively just call them all &quot;Indian traditions&quot; or something (but that may be a little close to Hindu lol).


I don&#039;t think Karmic works in Hindi / Sanskrit, not sure what the correct suffix to use would be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we replace Dharmic with Karmic would that work ?</p>
<p>Jains, Buddhists, Hindus, and Sikhs all believe in Karma.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t derogatory towards non-Karmic religions. A-dharmic is bad, but a-karmic is meaningless.</p>
<p>Karma is basically cause / effect so it also helps religious Indians be more open to western scientific advances as more detailed understandings of Karma. </p>
<p>Alternatively just call them all &#8220;Indian traditions&#8221; or something (but that may be a little close to Hindu lol).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Karmic works in Hindi / Sanskrit, not sure what the correct suffix to use would be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bhimrao		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bhimrao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2020 01:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75400&quot;&gt;justanotherlurker&lt;/a&gt;.

Random train of thought:
I never bothered inquiring but machining workshop guy is a tall, pot-bellied, jovial-thoroughbred jatt Sikh living in Jullandhar-Punjab, most others were Jatt Sikhs but living in UP, I have only ever been friends with one Mazhabi Sikh. Some might have been Baniya converts as I have heard giving one son to Sikhism used to be a thing. Many big (100 acre+) landowners in UP especially in Tarain i.e. northern parts of Awadh and Rohillkhand are Jatt Sikhs from Pakistan who were settled in swamps that were drained by Pt. Nehru&#039;s dams. We once went to picnic/pilgrimage to a beautiful, giant Gurdwara the Sikh refugees had built on our way to Nainital. During the prime of Khalistan movement some took up arms and gross atrocities were committed against them by Naga Regiment people. Lots of Sikh properties were destroyed and lives were lost after Indira&#039;s assassination. My mother recalls one of her neighbor&#039;s turban was set on fire and his cold storage burnt to the ground, my father recalls a Sikh&#039;s auto was set on fire (but this being 1980s built sturdy auto only the tarpaulin seats and shade were destroyed!).

I have read in newspapers about weirdo Sikhs usually the ones who are from the  Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhan Committee and the fact that Sikhs never elect Hindu CMs is for everyone to see but I think Buddhists would have been like that too, that&#039;s just human nature, just look at our Sri Lankan commenters(no offence to anyone).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75400">justanotherlurker</a>.</p>
<p>Random train of thought:<br />
I never bothered inquiring but machining workshop guy is a tall, pot-bellied, jovial-thoroughbred jatt Sikh living in Jullandhar-Punjab, most others were Jatt Sikhs but living in UP, I have only ever been friends with one Mazhabi Sikh. Some might have been Baniya converts as I have heard giving one son to Sikhism used to be a thing. Many big (100 acre+) landowners in UP especially in Tarain i.e. northern parts of Awadh and Rohillkhand are Jatt Sikhs from Pakistan who were settled in swamps that were drained by Pt. Nehru&#8217;s dams. We once went to picnic/pilgrimage to a beautiful, giant Gurdwara the Sikh refugees had built on our way to Nainital. During the prime of Khalistan movement some took up arms and gross atrocities were committed against them by Naga Regiment people. Lots of Sikh properties were destroyed and lives were lost after Indira&#8217;s assassination. My mother recalls one of her neighbor&#8217;s turban was set on fire and his cold storage burnt to the ground, my father recalls a Sikh&#8217;s auto was set on fire (but this being 1980s built sturdy auto only the tarpaulin seats and shade were destroyed!).</p>
<p>I have read in newspapers about weirdo Sikhs usually the ones who are from the  Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhan Committee and the fact that Sikhs never elect Hindu CMs is for everyone to see but I think Buddhists would have been like that too, that&#8217;s just human nature, just look at our Sri Lankan commenters(no offence to anyone).</p>
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		<title>
		By: justanotherlurker		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justanotherlurker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2020 23:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75401</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75381&quot;&gt;Saurav&lt;/a&gt;.

Admins: FYI, one or two of my comments on this thread are stuck in moderation]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75381">Saurav</a>.</p>
<p>Admins: FYI, one or two of my comments on this thread are stuck in moderation</p>
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		<title>
		By: justanotherlurker		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justanotherlurker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75396&quot;&gt;girmit&lt;/a&gt;.

girmit:
I agree. All I&#039;m saying is that a section of the Hindu right is too keen to include or even subsume Sikhs under the Dharmic category which creates resentment even among moderate Sikhs as they have a certain amount insecurity vis-a-vis their identity (and separation from Hinduism). Given this, it is best to be respectful of their wishes and not force the issue. To make it more concrete, the Indian government should amend laws to not include Sikhs under the Hindu umbrella (like the Hindu marriage act) - either rename them to Dharmic or something, or create separate laws for the Sikhs.

Bhimrao:
Thanks! Do you know if these Sikh acquaintances of yours were non-Jatt? I think in the 2x2 of Place of residence (Punjab vs. Rest of India) and caste (Jatt vs. non-Jatt), it&#039;s only the top right(Jatt + Punjab residence) that is most against being included with anything Hindu / Hinduism (and of course not all of them)..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75396">girmit</a>.</p>
<p>girmit:<br />
I agree. All I&#8217;m saying is that a section of the Hindu right is too keen to include or even subsume Sikhs under the Dharmic category which creates resentment even among moderate Sikhs as they have a certain amount insecurity vis-a-vis their identity (and separation from Hinduism). Given this, it is best to be respectful of their wishes and not force the issue. To make it more concrete, the Indian government should amend laws to not include Sikhs under the Hindu umbrella (like the Hindu marriage act) &#8211; either rename them to Dharmic or something, or create separate laws for the Sikhs.</p>
<p>Bhimrao:<br />
Thanks! Do you know if these Sikh acquaintances of yours were non-Jatt? I think in the 2&#215;2 of Place of residence (Punjab vs. Rest of India) and caste (Jatt vs. non-Jatt), it&#8217;s only the top right(Jatt + Punjab residence) that is most against being included with anything Hindu / Hinduism (and of course not all of them)..</p>
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		<title>
		By: girmit		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[girmit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2020 20:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75374&quot;&gt;justanotherlurker&lt;/a&gt;.

justanotherlurker, does it really matter whether they accept the categorization?  This isn&#039;t really a policy conversation that needs to take feelings and consequences into consideration. Its like if an american insisted they were not part of western civilization..sure whatever.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75374">justanotherlurker</a>.</p>
<p>justanotherlurker, does it really matter whether they accept the categorization?  This isn&#8217;t really a policy conversation that needs to take feelings and consequences into consideration. Its like if an american insisted they were not part of western civilization..sure whatever.</p>
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		<title>
		By: justanotherlurker		</title>
		<link>https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justanotherlurker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2020 19:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.brownpundits.com/?p=13536#comment-75393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75381&quot;&gt;Saurav&lt;/a&gt;.

saurav:
yes, I agree with most of what you said. Sorry it came across as me complaining as a non-Sanatani Indic although that was not my intent. I was trying to make the point that the varna hierarchy nonsense with v1 at top (and things percolating **down** from them) doesn&#039;t affect me much personally because of my non-Sanatani background in which we don&#039;t take / have not taken cues from **v1**. However, I started empathizing more with lower caste Hindus/Dalits after reading the likes of manasatarmgini and Srikanth K(in some instances) and their superiority complex vs. other Hindus. If I was part of one of those former groups I would be interested in countering them politically and religiously - where does someone get off telling me that they are my superiors? :) In the past people were more tolerant and status quoist but now with education and empowerment, they will not want to take it lying down nor should they :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/11/problems-with-the-terms-indic-and-dharmic/#comment-75381">Saurav</a>.</p>
<p>saurav:<br />
yes, I agree with most of what you said. Sorry it came across as me complaining as a non-Sanatani Indic although that was not my intent. I was trying to make the point that the varna hierarchy nonsense with v1 at top (and things percolating **down** from them) doesn&#8217;t affect me much personally because of my non-Sanatani background in which we don&#8217;t take / have not taken cues from **v1**. However, I started empathizing more with lower caste Hindus/Dalits after reading the likes of manasatarmgini and Srikanth K(in some instances) and their superiority complex vs. other Hindus. If I was part of one of those former groups I would be interested in countering them politically and religiously &#8211; where does someone get off telling me that they are my superiors? 🙂 In the past people were more tolerant and status quoist but now with education and empowerment, they will not want to take it lying down nor should they 🙂</p>
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