In doing so, Hindu-defined India may be poised to accomplish for Urdu culture what the Pahlavis did for Persian—modernizing it, making it sophisticated and aspirational, and removing the excesses of exclusivist religious overtones.

If Pakistan has long seen itself as the custodian of Urdu, Modi is now positioning India as its true inheritor—one that can mainstream it, integrate it, and make it a cultural powerhouse beyond sectarian confines.

The first is a Pakistani friend:

The second is an Iranian friend:

How Jahanara pronounces her name:

My pronunciation is in between the first two. There is some overlap between Persian and Pakistani (Indo-Persian) names of course. So I usually pronounce the name in the way I first heard it or heard it most.

Of course the “Hindi” pronunciation is different where the N in Jahanara is nasalised rather than pronounced.

The personal name “Jahan” seems to have retired from Persian and instead migrated to Hindustan. So I’m inclined to defer to the Urdu version of the name but nasaling the N is very unnatural to me as it reminds of the time at Urdu class. One of the students was counting the Urdu numbers with a Punjabi nasalisation and the teacher  started chuckling.

I dropped the Urdu class after one semester even though I was making the fastest progress; Persian & Urdu are simmering languages for me, it’s easy to get to fluency but English almost always takes over.

As a final note; Urdu, by any other name would be just as sweet, but Persian is sweeter (I’ve mauled Iqbal & Shakespeare in a single sentence).

The irony is that Urdu was called Hindi since Urdu was initially used to refer the Persian of Shahjahanabad. Urdu is the regularisation of a Hindustani standard that came about through Amir Khusrao but was obviously was called Hindi as it was the local language.

As a final aside it is just astounding the extent to which India’s medieval history is in Persian. I *knew* that the official language was Persian but never understood what that meant entirely. The Indo-Muslim rulers were copious writers and along with their monuments left mountains of documents (Shah Alam’s unfinished Perso-Urdu verse ran to 600+ pages).

The reason Pakistanis and Urdu-speakers go on and on about Middle Eastern forebears is because their ancestors were certainly in that milieu for centuries. It’s a vestigial memory that has persisted.

Origin Myth of Urdu & Hindi by Shamsur Rahman Faruqi

Of course one can never deny Pakistan’s aristocratic heritage when our dear Captain decides to wear a cheesy Shalwar Kameez in an audience with HM the Queen:

When meeting Royalty one should at least be aware of the sartorial graces. It looks like something he would wear to a shaadi in the Pind. Also Virat Kohli may be brash but his socks, shoes and pants do not go together at all!

If anything learn from the wonderful Noorie Abbas in how to dress:

ISI/RAW have trained this vixen well. Interestingly though the choice of a Sari was very unorthodox; Pakistan girls her age will never wear a Sari to a formal event. I know that the older generation in Pakistan wear it (one socialite NGO makes a point of wearing it everywhere) but it’s pretty much died down; I wouldn’t be surprised if Noorie has inadvertently kick started it.

Her pastel shawl and gray-blue top set off extremely well. It was an interesting thing in the Prof. Devji podcast that the main gripe Hindutva had against Muslims pre-1947 was their “aristocratic connotations”. After Independence when most of these people went across to Pakistan; the image of the Muslim changed to gangster and poor.

Pakistan’s structural inequality, which we explored in our educational podcasts, means that even though there is a very high National Asabiyah (in core Pakistan; East of the Indus); the Islamicate class structure is very much dominant.

So you have these extremes in Pakistan, which are not so apparent in other countries. Since Bangladesh shackled the yoke; it’s made tremendous strides since it seems so much more egalitarian (it may also be that Perso-Urdu culture is inherently hierarchical considering its origins despite a strong socialist tradition of Urdu Poetry).

The rest of the Pakistan nation is as lemmings off a cliff:

1.) Why are all the loans one way INTO Uralic and nothing from Uralic into Indic or Iranian languages? 

Not being a linguist, I am not aware whether or not that is in fact the case. I would be surprised if it were.

(2.) Why doesn’t the whole Aryan debate animate the Iranian society, as it does in India?

I don’t think there is a “debate” as such among Iranians, or among scholars in most parts of the world for that matter. That such a “debate” exists in India is due primarily to political, not scholarly reasons.

(3) What was the religious and ethnic demographic composition of the late Sassanid Empire [before the eve of the Arab invasion and conquest]?

a) In the overall Empire

The bulk of the population were Semitic and lived in Babylonia at the Western edge of the Empire, where Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism and other sects co-existed and interacted, sometimes peacefully and sometimes not.

b) In the proper Persian provinces

On the Iranian plateau the population were mainly various Iranian tribes. The Pahlavi sources would have us believe that they were mostly Zoroastrian, but the vigorous polemics found in these same sources demonstrate that there were in fact many rival sects in existence, most likely drawing their myths and traditions from the common proto-Iranian pool. Such modern-day Kurdish sects as the Yezidis and the Ahl-e Haqq may preserve some of these rival Iranian traditions.

(4) How did the [dualistic?] Zoroastrianism subsume or take over or absorb [not sure what’s the right term to use] the more polytheistic style Iranic religions [such as the worship of Anahita] ? What made the former successful , and when and how did this process take place? Are there any pointers to read up on this? 

It is highly unclear to what extent the Mazdaean priesthood exercised power or influence across Iranian societies prior to the Sasanian period. Their success from the late third century onwards would seem to be due principally to the fact that they had acquired state sponsorship.

(5.) What triggered the Turkification of most of Central Asia? Was it the destruction of the Qanat system?

The Persians, Khwarazmians and Sogdians all developed a policy of using Turkic soldiers for their respective armies. Eventually these Turks felt sufficiently empowered to assume power themselves.

(6.) Did the Medes, Achaemenids, and Parthians have a sense of “Iran” in a similar sense to the Sassanids or later people in the same area? I know the term pops up in the Avesta, but as far as I’m aware it was absent in a secular political or cultural context before the Sassanids, and I wonder if the people on the Iranian plateau would have had any name for the whole region. 

There is little evidence for a fixed geographical notion of “Iran” prior to the Sasanian period; it seems to have been more of an abstract concept.

(7.) How influential has the Sab-ki-Hindi (the Persian spoken in medieval) had on any Iranian culture?

The sabk-i hindi was typically seen in Iran as a degenerate literary form.

(8.) Who would you rate as having the most influence on Persian Culture/Iranian Civilisation (maybe top 3 individuals)?

Darius I (not Cyrus) probably deserves the credit for establishing the Persian Empire, with its roads, postal system, and bureaucracy. Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) might be a candidate, except that the Gathas are still poorly understood so we cannot say for certain exactly what his contribution was. A number of contemporary scholars (Jean Kellens, P.O. Skjærvø) even doubt that he existed. One would of course have to mention Ferdowsi since the Shah-nameh is widely considered to be the ultimate expression of Iranian identity.

(9.) Is it possible to divorce the sense of Iran from Islam. Pan-Turanism, Pan-Iranism or even Pan-Arabism seem to take a back-step to Pan-Islamic sentiment.​

For many Iranians such a separation is possible, even desirable, whereas the official position of the current Iranian government is just the opposite. It is worth noting however that Iranians played a central role in the development of Islamic civilization, arguably to a much greater extent than the Arabs. So Islam is more an Iranian phenomenon than a lot of people on both sides of the debate would like to admit.

Lovely video – I notice though that Kathak (this was Kathak right) has fallen out of favour in India for bharatnatyam. The irony Islamicate culture suffers for being “Islamic” in india and not Islamic enough in a Pakistan..

— Zac X (@XerxestheMagian) April 1, 2019

Islam will kill Islamicate culture in Pakistan unless Islam is neutered (we can always hope).

I enjoyed IndThing’s comments on the Marathas, there is no doubt if the Mughals were “Hindu”, the Bharat contingent would be adulating them.

We did some Persian events this weekend (one Baha’i one non-Bahá’í). I remarked to Vidhi the paucity of Persian culture, Persians do Western food and fashion as a sign of their high culture.

The stupidity of course is that if Persians looked East to India, they would discover so many Persianate elements (Salwar, biryani) that they could supplement the gaps.

Middle Eastern food and fashion is distinctly inferior to South Asian (I’m half half so I’m a fair judge). I was deeply offended when a Pakistani Lahori friend claimed on Instagram, Arabic food was his favourite cuisine.

As I was joking to Vidhi, “Pakistani culture is the best, Pakistani fashion is the best, Pakistani food is the best” at which she smiled and said what about “Pakistani women.” I quipped back that since she was 99.8% genetically Pakistani I could very well claim that Pakistani women were the best too ?

addendum:

I read a quote that China is a civilisation masquerading as a nation. In many ways that could be applied to India, which has exceptionally firm boundaries. Oceans to the South, Himalayas to the North, Hindu Kush in the West and the Arakan mountains to the East .

I see Pakistan and Pakistani culture as the Islamicate expression of that civilisation (and for me the High culture that binds the region). Of course not everyone shares my opinions or prejudices but what is happening to Pakistan is that Islam is suffocating that cultural complex. As Pakistanis become more Muslim, they are becoming a poor man’s Arab as per the TV presenter’s quip..

I thought I would share some pictures from an actual “Indo-Persian” culture since I can’t find Iran in the above pictures; just Bollywood wearing a few floral motifs..

Manish should have simply titled his exhibition; “back to Pakistan” or something such rather than unnecessarily exotify it with “Zween” and Indo-Persian. Like any good Delhite Punjabi he feels the tug of that hypnotic rich Mughlai high culture that has miraculously endured in Karachi..

However unfortunately Pakistan has failed as a country  and is rightfully perceived as a basket-case. On the hand the rise and rise of India continues..

https://www.facebook.com/India.usembassy/videos/1844235619025792/

It’s an interesting clip where Talha can understand virtually all the Persian words but for the accent and Amir can’t get a single Punjabi word.

I found this clip as well and incidentally Amir’s success rate with understanding Urdu just shot up. It is simply unbelievable and wonderful. Also when Talha is in “Urdu” mode he is able to tackle with the Persian words far better than when he was in Punjabi mode because his frame of references shifts away from rustic.

Also as a quibble (I may have to write in) but Pakistani Punjabi (like all languages spoken cis-Radcliffe) is written in Nasta’liq. I do not know why Amir has “over-exoticised” the Punjabi script when he has made subsequent videos with Sikhs etc. Gotta love the Persians and their complete amnesia when it comes to the East; a bit like how Indian has forgotten her historic sway in South East Asia, where Hinduism is the fundamental sub-strata.

Important Links:

• The Impact of Persian Language on Indian Languages
• Uncommon tongue: Pakistan’s confusing move to Urdu

(2.) the Karnataka question: What would a (Indian) Hindu Republic actually look like? Will Rahul G ever be PM?

(3.) the Muslim question: who will inherit the throne from SRK?

(4.) the Ramazan question: is the Indo-Persian culture dying among British Pakistanis (Sadiq Khan wishes everyone a Happy Ramadan)

(5.) the Western question: when/if will K-Jo come out?

(6.) the Academic question: will global philanthropy ever focus IIT/IIM funding?

(7.) the Vidhi question; will there ever be a Pakistani CEO of a Silicon Valley company (Pakistani not Muslim)?

(7b.) Vidhi bonus question; will Pakistanis be allowed to play in IPL? Will Pakistan win the Cricket World Cup again? Will Fawad Khan be allowed to come back to india? Would Pakistan ever get out of POK (she initially slipped Azad Kashmir but then made me change it to POK 🙁

(8.) Fun Z question: will Ranbir choose Alia or Mahira?

(9.) the Deadpool question; why do South Asians allow themselves to be demeaned in Hollywood as cab drivers and nerds. Will there ever be an Indian superhero (a Muslim one is coming; Kamala Khan)?

(10.) final question: who will be the next person to publicly resign from BP?