a discussion of things brown….
Those of you who know me will know that I formerly supported Trump. I thought he may become a transformational figure, creating an energized, muscular American conservatism.
By 2018 midterms, it was clear that this was not to be. Trump not only fueled the fires of his woke enemies, but he hemorrhaged the suburban support that had been instrumental to American conservatism since the Goldwater years. I thus withdrew my support of him-a prescient decision in light of what happened next.
With the farm law repeal, I believe we face an analogous situation vis-a-vis Modi. The BJP redoubles its efforts to win elections while forgetting the purpose of winning them. Modi has become a figure that galvanizes his enemies while confusing and demoralizing his friends.
He and the BJP are no longer worthy of our support.
You win some, you lose some
It’s a marathon, not a sprint
Personally, I’m surprised he held on to it for a year
Moving people out of agriculture is a much more sensible move and also a prerequisite
A PM of India has apologized to radical Sikh yahoos for the great crime of the Indian parliament doing its job and enacting reformist laws. Laws which would have made India a better place economically, socially and environmentally. Laws which apart from one state and one community had widespread support. This really is one of the most shameful events in the history of independent India. No other Prime Minister of India has ever been so cowardly or craven.
The reason why he may have done so do not matter. Knowing Modi and Shah they would most probably have been short-term political calculations.
BJP under PM Modi deserves to lose UP elections followed by General elections in 2024. These fellows are incompetent nincompoops who do not deserve to lead India. Their party members get beaten up, killed by political opponents all over the country without the senior leadership getting bothered. We need better leadership with stronger courage of their convictions. I cannot remember any other central govt. which has ever taken back major reforms not once but twice. Utterly shameful.
Fucking coward. He should resign now. He just emboldened radical elements. Shameful day.
Very disappointing that India couldn’t pass this basic reform, leading to economic modernization.
Valour? Modi has no valour. He starts something, drags ass, and then backtracks, making dupes of all his supporters and friends, appeasing people who won’t vote for him. He’s an IRL troll.
Even the much berated Manmohan Singh risked his govt. on the Indo-US nuclear deal, a decision he felt was the correct one for India at that time.
Modi is cowardly, unprincipled rat who would do just about anything to stay in power. And for what? BJP isn’t that different from other parties at the ground level. True, they did get the Ram Janmbhumi for Hindus and removed Article 370 but they have now gotten themselves and their supporters badly humiliated by both Muslims and Sikhs.
Ending political protests in India was never difficult. Just ask the opposition in Bengal or Kerala as to how its done. But if the party in power has harebrained schemes about winning power in Punjab with Sikh support what can they do except appear weak and powerless.
Can’t even give Modi much credit for RJB, Advani did all the heavy lifting before I was born.
And 370 is frankly more brainchild of Amit Shah. Modi has 5 major things he has failed at:
1. Farm reforms (support)
2. Labor reforms (support)
3. NRC/CAA (not really a supporter of this in and of itself)
4. UCC (big supporter of this)
5. Whatever the fuck demonetization was supposed to accomplish (fine I will give you that it sped up digitization)
Things I am iffy about
1. COVID-19 (maybe could be handled better but everyone would botch this)
2. China incursions (very hard, they are stronger than India so hard to do, at least Modi has some infrastructure push)
3. Relations with neighbors (again hard to do because China is buying influence all over with string of pearls)
4. Bakalot- they botched this shit badly but they actually showed the resolve to enter enemy territory and bomb something. This sends some sort of message that India is willing to defend itself with aggressive moves, when it concerns cross border radical Islamic terrorism.
5. Delhi air pollution (hard for any party to take this on)
2. Ram Mandir
3. Article 370
4. Selling off some state owned companies (eg. Air India)
5. Building toilets (open defecation has gone down, not as much as we wanted but it is better)
6. Clean India initiative. some cities noticeably cleaner. Air pollution still worsening as above though
If this is the way Sikhs and Kashmiris behave, I don’t think Hindus are doing themselves a favor by insisting on keeping everyone in the Indian union.
I would say just carve out Hindu areas from Punjab and Kashmir and give the rest of it freedom. Kick out all Sikhs from other parts of India to their Khalistan and kick out all Kashmiri Muslims (and Rana Ayyub types) to independent Kashmir. Lets do a full population exchange. No half hearted measures this time like in 1947.
I dare say an independent Khalistan would not produce rice and do stubble burning since there would be no one in the international markets who wants to buy their pesticide laden produce.
That will save us from spending so much of our energy on these stupid fights and allow us to spend it on what really matters. Economic upliftment of rest of India cannot happen if we keep fighting medieval minded lunatics.
The other way is the China way. Keep the minority trouble makers under the heel instead of mollycoddling them. There should be an immense cost to being anti-India and anti-Hindu in India. I don’t think Hindus and India are strong enough for this though. This is beyond our ability.
While we are at it lets also give away whichever parts of the North-east which want independence from us. Seriously what benefit does a Hindu from UP or from Andhra get from Nagaland being a part of the Indian Union. We can’t settle there, do business or buy land even. The costs of keeping it are huge. Permanent army installations, low level insurgency killing our people etc.
Empire building and superpower status is for strong self-confidant communities with great asabiya, not a people whose elite regularly shit on their own co-religionists for $300 dollar assignments in the western media.
Hindus look weak and underfed even when compared with the most strive torn parts of Africa. UP, Bihar and other large parts of the country literally have no industries to speak of. No culture of entrepreneurship, neither of education or of sporting excellence. Lets concentrate on these things.
Poora be-ijjat kar diya sare ne.
The post and comments show how bereft people in general have become of common sense. Either they don’t know reality of India or they know but don’t want to accept it. India is in fact a multicultural, multi religious, multi ethnic, multi linguistic and multi multi and —- country. In this multi world based on your own perspective you want to impose your one sided views. Shame on you nincompoops.
Vajpayee put Nation over politics. In the next election, the Nation chose Sonia over Vajpayee.
The most commonly worshipped divinity in the Kutch regions around Dwaraka is Ranchod, a form of Krishna based on an episode. The name literally means “one who flees the battlefield” – Ran+Chod. Krishna flees the battle from Kalyavan and hides in a cave.
The portmanteau “RamaKrishna” is given to many people in the subcontinent. The philosophical underpinnings of this name is lost to most. So why a mix of Rama and Krishna? Krishna, as the Godhead, possesses qualities that are quite radically different from those of Rama. Rama is morally perfect while Krishna is not. Krishna adopts stratagems that are murky and actually quite underhand – the killing of Karna, for example. Bimal Matilal called Krishna as the “devious divine”. Sometimes it takes more than moral outrage and purity to achieve goals.
Modi is a politician – and he is acting like a politician. I miss the point of the outragers.
Oh please, there’s no 4D chess here. If BJP wins assembly elections and then 2024, they’ll just go back to dicking around and Muslim-baiting for 5 more years, or however long it is until they’re gone. They don’t have the inclination, and they possibly don’t have the wherewithal, to do any more than that.
Oh please…….All the pontificating sheep sitting on their asses and blogging & tweeting “Modi Bad”. This is all you can do.
Where is the street power of the side that wanted reforms? Where is the muscle that countered the other side? Where are the ground enforcers of the Reforms side?
The Indian Right are a lot of islands – and do not have any pan-India heft. For some states, there are. It is not just important to win – but to win assertively. Unfortunately the farm laws really seemed like a lame duck win unlike Art 370 or RJB.
And add to this the Jat synergy among Hindus and Sikhs. That really stood out. Really really stood out. No farmers in Haryana, UP or Rajasthan really made a counter move.
Almost every other state is wanting for a sub-optimal farm reform at the least. I hope this setback will crystallise a ground level movement for the reform. At least at the State level.
Who remembers the Land Reforms that was also rolled back by Modi after “suit-boot ki sarkar jibe” by RaGa?? Which state nullified it by a State Amendment? Tamilnadu. Supported by the Governor and the President (BJP appointed)……..They then fought all the way to the Supreme Court which also backed them. Now Maharashtra and Gujarat are following Tamilnadu in nullifying the UPA Act for Land Acquisition.
Time for you to start understanding Centre-State devolution. It is 4D chess. You don’t read the newspaper beyond Page 3.
See, if that’s all true, then Modi shouldn’t waste time with putting forth economic reforms. He should just be the Hindu nationalist, and I’d support that if he was good at it.
It’s possible that India is constitutionally incapable of reforms. I certainly do think India isn’t really capable of development beyond a per capita GDP of $7000 (nominal) or so, given its dismal human capital. So for me, economic issues are a sideshow with a very limited rate of return. Better to focus on the cultural agenda.
But nothing looks worse than flailing around and backtracking like this.
I actually disagree quite strongly about the $7,000 nominal GDP thing. I think if India doesn’t get past this point in 20-25 years I will be quite shocked.
India has self-imposed chains weighing it down. A lot of the problems are interlinked (for eg. education levels, malnutrition, governance). It is a bit like trying to sort out a tangled bowl of spaghetti, it seems really hard a intractable in the short run, but given multiple angles of attack the problem can be solved and due to the interlinkages becomes easier over time if you can get a virtuous cycle going ( I believe India already has this cycle going for it).
Also if economic complexity is high then you are better off using PPP as a metric rather than nominal. This is why for eg. I think China’s military spending is underestimated since they are getting to the point where they can make everything themselves, PPP has become a better metric.
lots of small farmers are already out of agriculture. this is seen in karnataka as a number of manual labourers, guards and others i have spoken to have left farming. the farm sector will change itself as per its needs.
modi will continue selling public factories, building roads etc. he will fade out the way advani has done.
One theory I’ve seen is that Modi & Shah feared the possibilities of Sikh radicalisation that could be exploited by Pakistan to create turmoil at New Delhi’s doorstep. There has been a notable ramping up of attacks in Kashmir in recent months and if Punjab was in turmoil/militancy, the security situation would worsen considerably.
But even that theory is moot. We forget that the SC had already stayed the laws. I am not a fan of judicial overreach of the kind that we see in the US, and it seems Indian democracy has copied the worst aspects of the American one.
will not the punjabi sikhs feel slighted with the spin that modi withdrew these bills because of khalistanis.
I didn’t think I would ever say it. But I agree a lot with Ugra.
Modi/bjp/rss have entered the consolidation phase after expansion phase has ended. I feel the CAA will also be given a silent death. Now no more expending political capital on less/non hindu ethnicities on the votes/power of more Hindu regions.
It started with the fall of AIDMK, and then Bengal, good money is no longer being thrown after bad money, to keep the ship afloat. Same with CAA, there is no need to help less Hindu ethnicities who can’t help themselves. I think there would be sort of pullback from article 370 as well.
Now it’s time of consolidation the Hindu regions, to try to minimize damage. The farm laws was creating a unnecessary focal point for opposition forces. Once it goes away farmers will fall back to their older caste and communities cleavages, which hindutva can unite. It’s not about Punjab, and neither about UP ( Jatland was never a BJP strong hold anyways). It’s to nip in the bud , anything which gives the opposition succor, while consolidating ur strength.
> Same with CAA, there is no need to help less Hindu ethnicities who can’t help themselves.
I am at loss for words for Bengali Hindus. There was more protest in Tripura against what happened in Bangladesh as compared to West Bengal.
How can one be this Nirmohi/निर्मोही? If something happens to a Bhaiyya in Punjab I get just as pissed as it would have happened in Maharashtra.
West Bengal and Punjab. Both state which had to do with CAA, have passed resolutions against CAA.
For how long does more hindu regions have to carry the cross for less Hindu regions?
Sometimes I think that Bangladesh should just take over West Bengal and turn it into an Islamic republic. Will at least stop the decay. Bhadroloks are already going extinct. By some surveys they have a TFR of ~1.
Kolkata had the first metro in the entire subcontinent in 1980s. By 2030, Dhaka will have a better and larger metro system than Kolkata.
And Kolkata is the only city in West Bengal whereas Bangladesh has 2-3 – Dhaka, Chittagong, Sylhet. The Dhaka-Chittagong belt is going to be the industrial center in the entire sub-continent.
Finally someone who gets when I say lesser asabiya = stronger asabiya. Cannot forge a stronger unity with heretics in the fold.
Why construction of Kolkata Metro is so slow?
Short answer: Bengalis being the over-smart people they are, do not take any loans (not even the almost free Japanese ones) for Metro construction. All Bengalis not just the Bhadraloks are pig-headed and will put ideology over their own interests. Let them do their thing.
Dhaka metro is being built at an exorbitant cost compared to anything in India. But they take loans.
> Bengalis being the over-smart people they are, do not take any loans (not even the almost free Japanese ones) for Metro construction.
Not over-smart, cheap. They didn’t want to foot the 50% (even as a cheap Japanese loan).
Dayan/Pishachini wanted railways (i.e. central government) to pay for the entire network.
Whereas, in every city of the country, it is 50-50 with state and center.
But every Bengali will talk as if Kolkata is a tier above Tokyo or London.
You can’t win an argument with these folks dude. Let them enjoy the fruits of their Bengali-ness.
So many of you want to break India apart into little pieces. Just sad.
It is an interesting counterpoint to demands for Sikh, Muslim, Tribal, Christian, Dravidian etc. homelands.
Concede to their demands but demand a Hindu homeland with a more or less complete population transfer for partition 2.0. (make liminal Hindu groups decide how they want to identify).
This is more respectful of Human Rights than a domineering Chinese style approach (not realistically within India’s capacity) and less economically dysfunctional than an appeasement approach.
At the very least it shifts the overton window in discourse. So now preventing Balkanization can become a talking point for moderate Indians from all religions rather than coming off as a Hindu imposition.
Sounds like the “shifting” is to a position of weakness. It is sad that we have come to moderates entertaining separatism as something viable.
My expectations for India have declined tremendously. I hope for the best and still support policies that push forward the notion of free people, markets, and unity under one flag. But prospects look worse than ever in the last couple of decades. I used to think of India as a forever country of the future, one that could at least achieve decent middle income status. Now I am becoming doubtful of even that.
Nonetheless, the fight cannot end. I refuse to change paradigms.
Density map showing towns with Persian toponyms in India, specifically names that end with “abad”.
Eight centuries of Gangetic Hindu incompetence shown graphically.
Also note that the regions that have the least density of Persian toponyms are the highest economic performing regions in India today. Some maps have the instant power to vanquish secular narratives. Poof!!
Those are just places that happened to be under a longer Turco-Influence because of their geography (Plains). I don’t think there would be a huge difference between UP and MP Hindu “incompetence”. And I am pretty sure that Southern and Eastern Hindus weren’t too independent during that period, were they?
No, there is no visible pattern. Punjab, Haryana and West UP are well above much of the less dense Persian toponym regions, on economic grounds.
Awards for Hindu ‘incompetence/cuckery’ in the present political landscape would hands down go to Southern and Eastern Hindus btw. This is what matters, not 700 year-old Kingdoms.
“ Awards for Hindu ‘incompetence/cuckery’ in the present political landscape would hands down go to Southern and Eastern Hindus btw. “
Folks from Less Hindu regions don’t get it. It’s futile to argue with them. With 700 odd years of Muslim rule, the Hindu heartland still remained Hindu.
While the less Hindu regions converted to commie-land and Dravidian-land even without foreign rule. Tells a lot about different regions.
Lmfao even Indian media sees America going to shit
Lol of course they want more. Blackmail won’t end. Modi should take federalist approach. Once different states see where disproportionate benefits are going and the inefficiency of the current system and the boogey man is no longer “Hindu Fascist Mudi,” the rent seeking blackmail will be exposed even more so. But more importantly, the incentive structure to challenge it will change simultaneously while taking away the current unifying narrative propaganda, one that won’t be easy to recreate on a state vs. state level.
Lol funny how there is even mixed opinion on Pakdefense.
To a question if the farm laws were beneficial for the farmers or not, more than 50 per cent said they were indeed beneficial. Interestingly, close to 47 per cent of opposition supporters and voters agreed that the farm laws were beneficial for the farmers. In earlier CVoter Tracker polls also it was clear that huge number of farmers in Punjab, Haryana and Western UP were against the farm bills, but an equally overwhelming number of farmers outside these two-and-a-half domains across all other states were in support of these farm laws.
This was rent seeking caste revolt. Makes money on the backs of UP, Bihari migrants + chamar labor using unsustainable farming practices in an unsustainable supply demand market, where leeching off of the tax payer money is endorsed, given the government is forced to buy crop way above global market value, despite more than 2.5x surplus with grains rotting away. All the while depleting the water table because of inefficient techniques. But it’s ok. Some can run to Canada after desertification takes place. Then the BJP can be blamed again for not doing enough and supporting the evil Adana Advani robber barons….
Don’t get started on stubble burning. The combo of pure rent seeking selfishness and toothless government that could not take on this tribal behavior because of open foreign and leftist media support.
That UP/Bihar labour is getting educated (at least their kids are) at a rapid pace. Punjab will be left behind.
Punjabi’s don’t want to live in India (similar case for Haryanvi’s but to a lesser extent).
UP East is already being connected to Delhi. Bihar would be too, soon. I believe a high-speed rail between Delhi-Varanasi-Patna-Kolkata will happen before the one from Delhi-Panipat-Chandigarh-Amritsar.
Even the Delhi RRTS’s. West UP+ Haryana + Rajasthan will be much more developed than Punjab.
No reforms for people who do not deserve reforms. No need for federalist approach etc whatsoever. Break FCI for different states and let states procure food for themselves.
Also half expect BJP to oppose anything with the name reform and agriculture in the same sentence in the future, once they are in opposition. Once their land becomes deserts only then these people will have some sense knocked into them. Then i will check how many of these NRI-sikhs do their ‘brown mundes’.
Similar to my solution to less-Hindu problem, impose cost on the heretics. But then i have a feeling the BJP/RSS is too soft for this way out.
Asabiya wins! and defeats the biggest elected majority parliament in over 30 yrs making a total mockery of parliament, Pm, elections, democracy, fairness and truth. Asabiya defeats them all and stands arrogant and triumphant.
To those saying, we should let separatists have own states etc, disappointment can lead to bad judgement, one should guard one self against that. Hindus are stupid to believe in magic words of “democracy”, “justice”, “truth”, “fairness”. These things are cultural products that are outcome of tradeoffs, balance of power between different parties, individuals, entities, groups etc. Victory is in building asabiya and then doing fair trade offs. propagate and incentivize icm, they are open to all, so no discrimination, use, temples, education, hospitals to propagate own asabiya.
present bjp victory is build on back of rss created asabiya, so , do more, give urban areas, more seats, do gerrymandering etc.
people are hurt, but stop bitching and wailing. see the martian movie, thats where we are, just pick things up and start again. Your responsibility to civilization does not begin or end with voting once every 5 yrs. On Rss saying they should not focus on India being superpower but vishwa guru, sure, then branch outside India, and go ahead and do that, get other people to join you and work in rest of the world as well. If that is your mission, go forth and multiply. But H’s should by now learn theory of mind. Learn what others are thinking and doing. so those are 2 things one needs to focus on.
1 Build Asabiya,
2 do anthropology/ theory of mind,
even science, industry, economics comes under understanding others.
We even many people in r/india are realizing the truth. Lmfao of course after the fact. This so pathetic. The country gets the government it deserves. Fucking spineless.
One of the biggest gainers would have been onion farmers of Maharashtra.
But the likes of Pawar kept quite because they aren’t from Baramati and don’t vote for NCP.
Don’t look at /r/india. Den of chutiyas. One such chutiyas is advocating for MSP for avocados https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/qzcdri/comment/hlnu1p5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
“MSP as a legal right”.
What’s wrong with avocados? I also demand MSP for strawberries 🍓 😊
Lira keeps falling. Erdogan has two more years to go.
Kanpur Metro to be operational by next month. If dumps like Agra and Kanpur can pull it off, I am sure every Indian city can.
~35 maybe even 40 Indian cities will have metro by the end of the decade. 35 systems in <15 years, that's progress.
this will be interesting. others will also begin this kind of activities.
will be intersting.
Like I have said. This is a caste revolt. Corrupt people are now openly bragging about possible treason. Fuck Modi. He let these bastards win. He has no resolve. Shutting down roads like this for so long isn’t protest. It is economic terrorism. Stubble burning, the plurality contributor to the smog, is ecoterrosim. He refuses to stand up to the evil leaders of these protests. Tikait should be jailed.
Assam groups ready to resume anti-CAA protests next month, after Modi govt U-turn on farm laws
Steppe Eneolithic needs Indo-Iranian Neolithic genetic source for better qpGraph model!
India has a huge divergence between the number of people represented by an MP in North vs South.
There is going to be a delimitation in 2026 (Modi is building a new parliament for it too).
South Indians (especially Tamils) are absolutely losing their minds over it.
**For e.g.:** there are 39 seats for Tamil Nadu in Parliament and 80 seats for UP. If the delimitation is done proportionate to the population percentage, the numbers of MPs in TN will rise to 49(from 39), in UP will rise to 143(from 80), in Bihar will rise to 79(from 40) and in West Bengal will rise to 60(from 42).
I don’t think Modi has the balls to do it but even if half of it happens, South will become completely irrelevant in electing the Prime Minister of the country.
JDU-BJP government in Bihar to declare 29.500 acres of temple and matha land as national property.
BJP = Congress + Cow.
NPR accuses Mamta Banerjee of soft Hindutva. Lol
Leftist Hinduphobia and radical islamoapologism grows.
Dawn seems friendlier to Hinduism now than WaPo or NYT does
Soft Hindutva with Islamist characteristics 🙂
It alright. I have met Bongs who feel Mamta isn’t left enough. Since she defeated the commies, she somehow anti-left, so right wing. LOL
For first time, India’s fertility rate below replacement level
India reaching sub-replacement rate fertility is hugely consequential. India’s per capita GDP is just $2000. Unless India has an enormous reform push, it is likely to grow old before growing rich. The recent withdrawal of the farm bills is not a good sign in this regard.
India already has a small productive class that bankrolls the rest of the country so maybe it won’t be affected as much by this as other countries in similar situations ( it will definitely effect our potential but it’s not like we have a good record at realising that potential)
India is pretty much guaranteed to grow old before it gets rich. Especially because the impact of global warming will be felt in South Asia much more severely than in North America, Northern Europe, China, or Japan.
I actually want the Congress to come back so that we accelerate the whole ‘grow old before it gets rich.’ So that lolbertarians and Trad jokers (‘Congress+cow’, ‘Modi is a cuck’) can get the taste of some commie medicine. Seems they have had some memory loss.
Bengaluru best city for jobs & economic growth, Kolkata worst — Niti Aayog’s SDG Urban index
Overall, Shimla, Coimbatore & Thiruvananthapuram have topped the Niti Aayog’s SDG Urban Index, while Dhanbad & Meerut are the worst performers.
Astonishing how many Hindtards infest this site. Modi passed the bills as an economic reform measure. It was no reform at all but a sell-out of farm interests to his corporate cronies. When farmers organized themselves to protest they were showered with filthy communal abuse – typical of the Hindu right wing. The BJP communalized the protest. When the PM was forced to backtrack by circumstances his Hindutva fans, overcome with the vicious communal poison that infests their veins resorted to demands for another partition of the country. Such was the way of the Hindu Mahasabha in the 1930s that led to partition.
I have appended below a common sense view of the so called farm reform bills for those who want to learn the truth of the so called reform laws.
The Farm Laws and Farmer Protest.
All you need to know; what the journalists do not know and cannot tell.
Farming is a tedious business, and for urban folk an incomprehensible bucolic occupation they only know from their airconditioned cars, as they whiz along on the National Highways, or through the darkened windows of an airconditioned train. Many people understand vaguely that what appears on the dinner table has something to do with the toiling farmer, but they have as much knowledge of the process that leads to food on their plates as they do of the workings of the microchip in their smart phone – and as much interest. This is true of journalists as well, especially those who cannot stop telling us why the farm laws are such a good thing.
Are the farm laws good for the farmer? Emphatically, no! Are they good for the economy? No! So, why are there these continuing justifications that defy reality, history and economic theory, all at the same time? Sadly, if they do not spring from ignorance, misunderstanding or plain prejudice, it is (as in the case of the financial media) simply a vested or myopic self-interest that obscures the truth of the farmer’s case.
This piece is not about the constitutional issue. The constitutional illegality is self-evident, even though the Supreme Court has delayed pronouncing on it. Rather, the arguments below are about the badness of the laws – their innate inequity at best, and, at worst, their damnable malintent.
We need only a smattering of history and economics to understand why the laws are bad – the history first, and we won’t go back to feudal times or the British exploitation of plantation labour to grow Indigo in Bihar, or R C Dutt’s first protest on that inequity. We begin with modern times, and with the State of undivided pre-partition Punjab, which includes Haryana. It is this area that is leading the current unrest. We shall try to outline the problem first, and then see if the so called reform laws are a solution, or even a reform.
At the beginning of the 20th century the Punjab government realized that farmers, (and from whose ranks the bulk of the Indian army was drawn, were severely distressed because grain traders who were also moneylenders, were gradually taking possession of land in repayment of debt. The government realized that serious reform to protect the farmer was needed and in a series of orders spearheaded by Malcolm Darling of the ICS took steps to ensure that farmers did not lose their land to urban traders and money lenders. This gave birth to the Unionist Party which ran a secular movement for the protection of rural interests cutting across religious boundaries. The Alienation of Land Act stopped further transfer of their lands from indebted farmers to money lending traders.
While the agriculturist’s lands were saved from the money lender his exploitation on prices continued. Indebtedness continued to mount because collusive purchase by traders ensured that prices remained low or at bare subsistence level. In 1938 Sir Chhotu Ram the eminent Jat leader from Rohtak was Agriculture Minister in Punjab’s Unionist government. To him lies the credit for creating regulated agricultural mandis or markets which ensured that the trader was not able to exploit the farmer. All grain had to be sold in the mandi, with strict conditions governing the sale.. Earlier grain was purchased cheaply on various specious grounds, direct from the farmer. Now with the mandi system legally enforced, collusive purchase as well as underpricing on account of quality was much reduced. The mandi system made it difficult, even without mandatory minimum support prices for the trader to exploit the grain producer
Let us remember that these were times of grain scarcity. Demand was not lacking at a time when the country barely managed to feed a population of less than 400 million. Chronic malnourishment in rural areas was the norm and starvation deaths frequent. Yet farmers did not grow rich, nor rural society become prosperous. In fact, as we know, the situation deteriorated after independence when grain production could not cope with demand and Public Law 480 enacted by the US government kept India fed, ship to mouth. Those who lived through the famine stricken 60s, especially the great Bihar famine of 1964 will know what I am talking about. The private sector, by which is meant then, private traders, hoarded grain and profited hugely. The Hoarding and Profiteering Act was brought in specifically to unearth stocks of grain hoarded by traders for scalping the poor at a time of great scarcity. This is natural, need I say it, how markets always behave, even now for any commodity.
India was saved by the green revolution which came with the high yielding Mexican wheat varieties of Dr. Norman Borlaug and the high yielding rice from the International Rice Research Institute. Production began to rise because farmers, especially in Punjab and Haryana and west UP began to invest in tubewells, tractors, fertilizer and pesticides. A system of procurement prices was introduced. The regulated mandis ensured that all the grain was purchased at the support price. Traders could not exploit the grain producer because government was a ready buyer, even when production was surplus to need, initially to build up buffer stocks, and for price support. This led to higher farm incomes and eventually to over production of grain in Haryana and Punjab.
Over production of wheat however is not so much of an issue if the Government refrains from periodic bans on wheat export. The problem facing Union Government and the country is over production when it has to be bought and stocked. Current inventories of grain are in the region of 70 million tonnes. That is massive indeed with a humungous holding cost. 70 million tonnes is roughly what India produced annually in the mid-sixties. How do the farm laws solve the problem of over production? They do not, and cannot.
The next question is whether the farm laws reform anything. Reform implies improvement. The regulated mandi is a market. How is abolishing the kind of market that has helped farmers be good for them? This requires us to look closely at the economic arguments which are purported to support the Union government.
The economic reform argument rests on the old liberal principle that free markets must be allowed to operate without government interference. Added to this is the neo classical economic argument that perfect competition between infinite numbers of buyers and sellers establishes a correct market price. It was the liberal principle of free markets that forced Prime Minister Robert Peele in mid-nineteenth century Britain to repeal the corn laws which banned grain imports when a famine was raging in Ireland because of potato blight. Though it was a Conservative government Peele had to resort to Whig liberal support to ram through the repeal. So, can we suppose that this socially conservative BJP government has had some sort of liberal epiphany – to help the farmer in India’s case? No, not at all!
The Government has never been in favour of free international trade in agricultural commodities. It regularly bans export of cotton to favour mill owners, and wheat to favour urban consumers.
Markets are hardly ever completely free, and they are never perfect. The neo classical argument collapsed after the 1930s onwards when some brilliant economists at Cambridge University led by Joan Robinson demonstrated that markets were never free and competition usually imperfect. This meant that prices were not arrived through the market mechanism of supply and demand but through price fixation by underhand collaboration of buyers. We all know about monopolies, but thanks to Joan Robinson terms like monopsony and oligopsony entered economic parlance. These describe situations where markets fail to perform because buyers collude, or there are too few of them, oligopsony, or even only one, monopsony.
If there are just a few buyers, or only one, sellers must accept whatever price is offered. This is precisely the situation that the farm laws seek to bring about. They will leave the farmer at the mercy of the buyer. Government as monopsonist is acceptable to farmers. But when government stops buying, private oligosonic cartels will dictate the price – take it or leave it. This is the nub of the farmers argument and the reason why farmers are so agitated. It is just nonsense to say that the new laws will benefit farmers. Nothing could be worse for them.
Economists who support the farm laws have either forgotten the elementary principles of their discipline or are being wilfully obtuse. In a situation of scarcity private buyers would have been expected to pay high prices, but they do not, as we know from the experience of undivided Punjab before Sir Chhotu Ram’s reforms in 1938. If the lessons of history are not enough, we have the experience of our own times. If farmers were not safe from underhand deals of traders even during times of scarcity how safe are they when production is massively surplus.
Potatoes were going for 75 paise per kilo at the farm gate when consumers paid twenty times the amount to the sabziwala. Onions and tomatoes are regularly left to rot because the private trade would rather pursue high profits than fair practice. Sugar cane growers go unpaid for years for up to two years as the sugar barons grow fat on the interest of sums due to the farmer. Kinnow growers in Punjab get ten rupees for a kilo. The fruit rarely retails at under fifty rupees a kilo. Under Imran Khan his supporting fat cats have gotten even fatter profiting off sugar and wheat while farmers and consumers both cry themselves hoarse. Why does Government think that traders will act any differently now?
In the time of scarcity, the fifties and sixties, traders and dealers of food grains were regularly raided and prosecuted under the Defence of India rules for hoarding and price scalping. This time around it is the farmer who is the villain, the anti-national, the Khalistani, not because he exploits the consumer but because he wants to protect himself and his family. The maledictions of a well-honed machine spit out obloquy as a weapon of first resort to damn honest toilers who now happen to produce more than the nation can consume because they have been historically asked to produce large surpluses.
The farm laws will lead the farmer to produce less, because he will not be able to produce more. His income will drop drastically. Farm suicides will increase because the farmer does not have the option to escape to London or one the Caribbean Islands. In any case farmers are honourable folk who feel dishonoured by debts they cannot pay off unlike the businessmen who scam their country of thousands of crores and fly away when asked to repay. One rarely hears of a businessman taking his life because of business debts.
India’s economy will suffer too. Demand for tractors, fertilizer and pesticide, and farm equipment will collapse. There will be a general lessening of demand for other consumer items and white goods which a prosperous rural sector engenders, with a corresponding decrease of jobs in the rural economy. The urban consumer cannot expect to benefit. There is no link between prices paid to farmers and those paid by consumers at retail. A kilo of branded maize flour sold by one prominent business house retails for Rs. 150/ per kilo. Farmers complain that they get no more than ten rupees for it. This is what consumers can expect from these revolutionary farm laws.
And there will be large scale rural unrest. The government may concede nothing to this agitation, but it cannot prevent mass unhappiness. Even a government as quick as this one is to set its watchdogs on those who cross it will find it hard to suppress expressions of country wide rural distress; for, make no mistake, if farm prices fall in Punjab and Haryana, they will pull them down everywhere in the country.
There are solutions to the problem of agriculture surpluses, but the one government has chosen is not one of them. It will cause them to disappear of course, that much is clear, for reasons outlined, but it won’t do anyone any good, least of all the government. Even those investing in the farm business will not profit for long.
The problem of agriculture pricing is not unique to India. Everywhere Governments subsidize farming. It is the nature of the product that requires it. China, Japan, the US and Europe are al into heavy agricultural subsidies. That is why we had PL 480, wine lakes and butter mountains in Europe and such expensive rice in Japan.
BJP is a bania party at heart, and it operates with a bania mentality of its support group – buy cheap sell dear. The corporate form of baniahood is what the current Union government caters to in the form of Adani and Ambani.
Post-colonial India under the BJP has forgotten the solutions that the colonial state found for the problems of agriculturists. It now blames farmers for the problems that successive Indian governments fostered and nurtured. It has even forgotten the experience of post independence Congress governments. The farm reform laws, like the GST is an ill-considered measure, and like the demonetization, not sufficiently thought through. No good can come of them.
Lmfao the bania hate blaming from some grows. Very good. Please read what most serious economists are saying. Your rant is devoid of actual expert consensus.
And I have said no repeatedly to partitions on this thread. Only Saurav with his “more Hindu” stuff is pushing it hard and looks like others have bandwagoned.
Anyway, rent seekers don’t tend to care about economics. And the left only cares about maligning the right. India is a tribal disaster right now. Anyway, Punjab will keep sliding down economically and Haryana will still be supported by places like Gurgaon but now stuff like their job reservation rules will also bite them.
“Economists who support the farm laws have either forgotten the elementary principles of their discipline or are being wilfully obtuse. ”
For those advocating a fresh partition a better suggestion would be for the Hindtards to move to a consolidated territory of like minded communal bigots. They cannot be more than 20 percent or so of India’s population. An enclave in Rajasthan close to the border with Pakistan is best. Thus sequestrated they can freely indulge in their aggressive maneuvres against Pakistan, which they like doing, and vent against other Indians. The rest of the country including Bengalis, Tamils, Malayalis, Nagas, Kashmiris and Punjabis can go about their business peacefully.
LOL, the way its going the ethnicities u mentioned might be the ones demanding separation…
I am perfectly happy to see a united Islamic Bengal if that’s what the people of West Bengal or even Assam want.
Ditto for the Kashmiri Valley people’s right to self determination and their freedom to join al Bakistan.
Same for the good People of Nagaland if they wish to leave the Indian Union. I would see them off as friends and brothers.
If Indian Punjabis want a independent Sikh homeland in a area where they are a majority I will support it.
If Canadian Khalistani supporters want to create a Sikh homeland in Brampton or something, I would support that too.
But if a majority of people in a Hindu majority area of India want a united Hindu state they must also have their right to self determination respected.
It is only fair.
“Friends and brothers”
Lol. Separatists don’t see you as such at all.
> The rest of the country including Bengalis, Tamils, Malayalis, Nagas, Kashmiris and Punjabis can go about their business peacefully.
Don’t you worry, Hindi belt will soon subsume you all.
Lol. These folks are on borrowed time already. Let them have their sub-nationalism for couple of decades.
Just like hindutva subsumed Hinduism. Bharat will subsume India.
India’s Total Fertility Rate Drops Below Replacement Level of 2.1, Reveals NFHS Data – https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/indias-total-fertility-rate-drops-below-replacement-level-of-2-dot-1-percent-reveals-nfhs-data.html
All i can say is that extreme haters of Modi are hating him more than extreme supporters are supporting him and those who were in between now mostly have fed up attitude.Nationally he is still strong because other are weak and he still have powerful image and In states you know they are dependent .I m guessing In U.P SP gonna perform good but can they make govt?Up has no record of consecutive incumbency.
Absolutely. This was true a decade ago.
After Modi did a U-turn on farm laws, people here be like:
Till now there is no evidence to show that the majority of Hindus want an independent Hindu country nor that a majority of Bengalis want an independent Bengal. Nor have the Hindutva enthusiasts shown us evidence that Sikhs want an independent Khalistan. Crank Hindus, Sikhs and Bengalis may.
“nor that a majority of Bengalis want an independent Bengal”
You mean apart from 47 and 71? Yeah , true they have never wanted it…
$300 million is chump change in the world of semiconductors (TSMC invests $15 billion in new fabs), but it’s a start and it’s better than nothing. Hopefully we will have a proper Indian chip ecosystem from the design of chips to production. The software part is already taken care of.
No such thing as “love jihad.”
This is Rape Jihad.
Farming is a tedious business, and for urban folk an incomprehensible bucolic occupation they only know from their airconditioned cars, as they whiz along on the National Highways, or through the darkened windows of an airconditioned train. Many people understand vaguely that what appears on the dinner table has something to do with the toiling farmer, but they have as much knowledge of the process that leads to food on their plates as they do of the workings of the microchip in their smart phone – and as much interest.
Just 3 questions-
1. In which state is your farm located?
2. How many acres?
3. How long have you worked on it?
Counter the argument. Give up this ad hominem business. That is all Hindtards know.
“You mean apart from 47 and 71? Yeah , true they have never wanted it”
Who voted for independent Bengal in ’47’ and ’71’ ? Hindtard distortions again. You guys live off them.
Indian farmers are unproductive, unskilled rent seekers surviving on what loot they can force the government to hand over from the taxes it collects from the small productive urban population. Without market protectionism the actually productive people in urban India would be able to buy cheaper and healthier food from places like Canada and Australia instead of the being forced to pay above market prices for the trash that Indian farmers produce. Farmers should understand that urban India is doing them a favour by subsidizing their livelihood with our taxes and buying thier overpriced poor quality food.
Both Canada and Australia (and the US) heavily subsidize their farming sector at the cost of the taxpayer. It’s part of national security. A country that does not produce its own food is always at the risk of starvation should others turn off the taps.
There is balance. India overdoes it for some stuff and rent seekers are imposing greater and greater costs, both economic and environmental. They use their geographic and disproportionate army percentage as leverage. They also have a good amount of NRI money and foreign media support. This results in the ability to keep pushing that balance the wrong way via blackmailing the rest of the nation.
India has the most arable land but among the worst farming efficiency, both in terms of cost of production and environmental damage. And benefits are disproportionately going to groups with greater leverage, as is generally true but the government lacks the cajones to confront them.
Federalist approach is best with big money pot. Allocate set amount to agriculture. States have to negotiate MSPs among themselves for crops and how to keep farmers employed. The you will see how things turn when the right wing “mudi facist” boogeyman goes away. It will be clear where unsustainable, disproportionate, and unfair advantages lie.
Every government has proposed similar reforms for decades. This same group also blackmailed Rajiv Gandhi into free electricity.
I have no horse in the race, nor am I following this news, so couldn’t care either way. Only pointing out the obvious: that food security is paramount for any country, especially India lest they wish to repeat famines of the past. So from that point of view, subsidizing farming is not ”socialism” because all countries do it including the mighty capitalist USA.
The farm subsidy implementation in India is comically bad.
The current system results in economic incentives for farmers to grow rice in a dry state like Punjab.
I am sympathize with the farmers as well as it is not economically sustainable to have 45% or so of India’s population engaged in small scale agriculture. But there is no real alternative for semi-skilled jobs due to a lack of industrialization.
Btw unintelligently subsidizing stuff in the US is also leading to a disaster. Certain crop subsidization is insanely disproportionately responsible for water issues in places like California.
No one is saying pure free market. But India is inefficiently way too far in one direction to the detriment of everyone except the rent seeking protestor class. Leftists have just latched on because it hurts BJP. BJP did the same thing when the Left tried agricultural reforms.
I hope the BJP uses this as an opportunity to do just that. Agriculture is technically on the State List in the constitution. The govenrment should get rid of all ferderal agriculture programs/subsidies and give the money to the states based on the amount of farmland or farmers with environmental incentives to reduce stubble burning and ground water depletion. Procurement for FCI should be only what is required for the program or the government should get rid of it also and let each state run their own ration program.
With agriculture devolved to the state level BJP states can implement the farms laws. If farmers in Punjab or Haryana have a problem then they can blockade their own state capitals instead of laying siege to Delhi.
I don’t mind subsidies for agriculture but even China realizes that you need some market forces to ensure that you produce what people actually need. MSP results in a horrible waste of resources to produce poor quality wheat and rice that end up rotting in some FCI warehouse.
What I find most annoying though is the self righteous NRIs and liberals who portray the farmers as some kind of noble workers toiling selflessly in the fields to provide food to the country. These are the same kind of people who would have us believe that there is some kind of nobility in being poor. People are poor because they are not able to be rich. In the same way the farmers toil in the fields because they are by and large a group of semiliterate peasants that don’t have any other marketable skills. Those same NRIs and liberals also think that these farmers are somehow devinely entitled to enjoy a standard of living above what their subsistence levels of productivity warrants and that the government of India is “Facist” if it does not provide them the money to do this even if it bankrups itself in doing so.
What are your thoughts on this
Bhai prachand Bakchodi hai yeh, don’t buy it.
High-tech (inevitably low-volume) + Low value = failure
Most likely they will end up working on figuring out how to do guidance-navigation on balloons for imaging applications. I know at least two companies like this in the Bay Area who persevere even after Google Loon went defunct. The payloads possible(usually <<<10 kg) with balloons are too less a car emits 4-500 gm of CO2 per mile. Math doesn't work out.
This is one of the biggest ones available. Measly payload of 3 kg.
Can fabless be the next SaaS for India?
Girls get Leaving Cert results boost from ‘unconscious bias’
Gender gap under estimated marks wider than with traditional exams, SEC finds
another argument for standardised tests
Counter the argument. Give up this ad hominem business.
You spoke as if you knew a lot more about farming than the rest of us, so I just wondered if you’re from a peasant-class family. Surely you must have more experience than my uncles who have been farming for 60+ years, yes?
You get to call us unaware/ignorant, but it’s ad hominem if we question your credentials?
“counter the argument”
What argument? All you did was romanticize mandis and tell us that every single corporation out there wants farmers to commit suicide. Going by your hatred for greedy corporates, I’m sure you’ve never even set foot on American soil : )