While reading articles online, I come across a particular sort of wisdom which is repeated in different forms.
For instance, there is an oft repeated theme about – why Arab armies tend to lose wars. It is true that Arabs have either lost or stalemated every modern battle they have been involved in (post say 1918) with a non Arab power.
Given the truism, there is a little hop skip and jump to be had trying to explain it using Arab culture.
It gives the impression of being very learned about international affairs, a revelatory observational expose for your edification.
There is this famous article…
And recently I saw this, which feels to be a bit of a rehash of the first one, but possibly has arrived at the same conclusions independently.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-216723035
However, all the so called -ve qualities attributed to Arab culture, which I am sure most western readers would nod their heads and sing along to, can be found in a Japanese corporate office.
Saving face, extreme subordination, overriding authority of the boss, innovation discouragement, information hoarding for fear of speaking out. It is all there. Even the rote memorisation is a key aspect of Japanese education. Anyone who has tried to learn Kanji will understand the sheer mindless tedium involved.
And yet, this seems completely absurd, because the Japanese achieved a spectacular degree of modern military success, punching well above their weight class until the Atomic bomb knockout.
Conversely the Houthis are very Arab, and socially identical to the Saudis, (except for the Shia/Sunni variance). And yet, despite heavy international sanctions and no viable extractive exports, this militia on a shoestring budget repeatedly humbles the worlds largest arms importer.
It has come to the point where the Saudis are desperate and the US & Nato allies are now quite visibly gearing up to engage in a kinetic campaign against the Houthis.
So given the bias of western analysts, and my own inability to find reasons why the Arabs fare so badly in general vs non Arab states, I wanted to pose the question here.
I will observe that the most successful outfits have been Hezbollah and Houthis, both Shia militia, punching well above their weight, and did so before linking up closely with the Iranians.
* This sort of curve fitting analysis is often at the heart of many articles, like why Asians are good at math, and why the Indian economy underperformed for so long. They feel true because they are often tautological.
If we are saying that the arabs lose wars, that is obviously historically incorrect given the presense of islam everywhere outside of Arabia.
If we include Arab to mean both those within and outside the Arabian peninsula, the main takeaway is that Arab states seem to be using the army as a way for secure careers, and not as an instrument of statecraft. Many of the conflicts that the Saudi and UAE are involved in, are through armies that they have paid for and supporting and not their own.
In contrast the houthis and other arab insurgents live breathe and die war, they are there to win and as a result states like Saudi Arabia that seem to think they can buy their way out of conflict either through paying the US or recently turkey and Pakistan cant match up. It’s a cultural thing but not one from arab culture rather one coming out of immense wealth.
There is actually a word for this condition – Alexia. I’ll put out an audiolink to the article. Hope it helps.
You should learn to engage with arguments on their own merit rather than alleging people cant read.
It does not disprove my points and only makes it look like you have an issue with people challenging you.
Makes your own judgement of others look rather shallow when you use either sad jokes or bad coping mechanism to avoid engagement of opposing viewpoints
I actuallt answered exactly what you wanted but if one has to deny someone for opposing them, they will find ways to cope.
Sry, you had an argument in there? What was it?
The Arab armies have lost or heavily underperformed
Egypt Syria Jordan Lebanon Iraq Vs Israel – many times
Libya Vs Chad in 1987
Iraq Vs Iran
Iraq in 2 gulf wars
Syria vs rebels
Libya vs rebels
Gulfies are getting pummelled by Iran and dare not raise an offensive finger.
Your response (after some neurotic babble about who Arabs are, the spread of Islam, blah blah) is that the Saudis are rich and can’t bother to fight their war, while the Houthis “breathe and die” war.
Do you feel it is worthy of engaging or mocking?
Honestly, I have better conversations with an AI. At least I can turn down the verbosity of its responses.
Mr Wilde has a famous saying about remaining silent.
You wanted to assign cultural reasons for why modern arabs cant win wars.
Blaming culture for a group of people losing or winning a war is the first wrong thing. Victory and defeat are dependent on many factors.
One reason why Saudi Arabia is failing is because it may in all likelihood think it csn spend its way out of making a military.
One reason why Iraq fell to the US is due to the army just giving up when the US forces entered.
There is a case to be made thst complacency due to oil wealth has made arab leaders blind to the need to develop a good and capable army.
This example is a clear sign of the gulf states getting complacent in building the military due to the US.
//Gulfies are getting pummelled by Iran and dare not raise an offensive finger.//
You are not able to see this due to some need from your end to dismiss me.
Syria vs rebels- this is actually a counter example to your point since Assad did technically beat out the rebels till 2024 but exhausted the Syrian states capacity and lost out to other arab rebels.
Once again nothing to do with cultural issues the arabs may have just modern sociopolitical realities that are obvious to me but not you.
Please do speak to AI, it will at least get through to you on how incorrect this whole notion of finding cultural factors for military losses are.
You simply cannot read.
The entire article is about how assigning cultural reasons to military loss is a common fallacy engaged in by western theorists that I do not buy into.
Read the bloody article properly. I think calling you out 3 times in one day on your inability to read is enough. Henceforth only mocking.
Ah man more of your bad unfunny jokes!
Ok, it looks like your writing style makes you sound more condescending thsn you really are
Maybe it is the constant judgement you display towards leftists, the way you use bad humor deal with arguments at time. You should work on this instead of telling me to read better maybe it is your writing that is at fault.
//So given the bias of western analysts, and my own inability to find reasons why the Arabs fare so badly in general vs non Arab states, I wanted to pose the question here.//
Except I already answered this question, properly you dont want to entertain the notion that mamy arab states are complacent in building up their military for when it is actually needed. Some libe Syria do fight quite well against rebels but exhaust themselves.
I would like to see what bad jokes you come up with now, it is getting more and more clear that you have issues with views you dont like.
Now you’re berating jokes I haven’t even made, presumably in panic that something might have flown over your head.
Christ almighty was really scraping the bottom of the barrel at your turn for a brain handout. No wonder you keep washing it.
Don’t worry, while it is admittedly a bit gauche to laugh at my own jokes, to help with your reading comprehension I will add on an emoji laugh track 😂😂😂😂.
//Don’t worry, while it is admittedly a bit gauche to laugh at my own jokes, to help with your reading comprehension I will add on an emoji laugh track 😂😂😂😂.//
I dont think your jokes can be improved with laughing emoji. This is not a sitcom where you can get people to laugh with a prompt. You need to have some substance.
//Now you’re berating jokes I haven’t even made, presumably in panic that something might have flown over your head.//
The fact that you think you can make me panic is almost funny, almost.
//Christ almighty was really scraping the bottom of the barrel at your turn for a brain handout. No wonder you keep washing it.//
It is really just that you condescend so much and your writing itself is so unclear that one cant help but think that you are trying to be insulting in the process of trying to be witty.
I actually answered your question that you raised in this article so you have already been disproven on this dumb accusation.
Please be less condescending to people who disagree with you and failing that, at least be clear multiple times for your reader convenience. You owe them that much for being so condescending to those who disagree with you all the time.
Actually, this has been quite helpful. You are the Jim Cramer of political opinions.
If you insist culture is not the cause for Arabian military failure. It much be the case.
I was hesitant to read Pollacks: Armies of sand which seems to be the fountainhead of this idea. You’ve removed my reservations.
Keep it up, my alexic, deodorant scorning, perverse reverse indicator.
Lol 🤣
Even agni is essentially blaming complacency and not culture.
You can contine to argue that just because I am opposed to you on many issues I have to be wrong. It only put the next time you criticize leftists in perspective, given your discomfort with opposing viewpoints
I am happy that you are encourged to read new books because of me. I myself have learnt a lot and read a lot in trying to counter and refute you and others. See how your knowledge increases by engaging rather than defaulting to condescension and bad jokes.
अर्धो घटो घोषमुपैति नूनं
He came, he skimmed.
And concluded he had a chance to make potshots at you about ‘arabs not winning wars’. Don’t know about reading, but comprehension failure on display is……quite comprehensive.
I literally hit upon the same conclusion everyone else is giving him.
Had he not had a habit of indulging in condescension of people so regularly, his questioning would have seemed innocent.
dude, you didn’t ‘hit upon the same conclusion’. You have a serious issue with self-awareness.
I mentioned that the reason Arab armies fail is their complacency as a result of oil wealth, so did Agni, so did girmit and you are just saying that rot enter their societies as a result of kleptocracy, same thing in multiple different ways.
Dont twist my words just to continue this canard.
I thought it was attributed to Mark Twain? 🤔
😱😱 the misappropriation of that quote is apparently quite widespread.
I think i just credit Wilde by default.
I think they just got comfortable with the lifestyle that oil brought in. The open US patronage and military protection ensured a high degree of lazy complacency despite the geographically dangerous neighbourhood they belong to.
But thats the Saudis.
All the generals seem to have been equally hopeless. Gaddafi in his prime with a trained, equipped army got routed by the Chadian FANT using Toyotas with welded in weapons mountings.
Saddam was supplied a ton of weapons from the US, outmanned, outgunned, out equipped the Iranians, sometimes in a 10:1 ratio and kept getting trounced for almost a decade by mullahs post revolution with no strategic command.
Yes, that’s true.
Though, your original point does beg the question. How many people were actually supportive of these dictators? Unless there were traitors in the midst, it is unlikely that a trained army would easily fall. So was the trained army just mercenaries who could be bought by the highest bidder?
Digressing a bit; both Gaddafi and Saddam were propped by the US. Clearly they did not expect the schadenfreude by the CIA. I do think a degree of complacency and the delusion of being invincible due to dictatorship would have contributed to their downfall.
Actually, the Arab generals have been remarkably coup free. I’m sure there must be some, but no real success that comes to mind. A few revolutions, some number of failed attempts, but over the many countries and complete lack of democracy, the strongmen have remained pretty safe.
Some kings got ousted and Sadat got assassinated, not generals exactly.
In comparison with their military record, they have been quite good at keeping both heads and chairs. The recent record is worse, but that is with unambiguous foreign meddling.
Arab armies are always locally staffed, and rarely have any mercenaries. The sad part is that they seem to have bought into the idea that they are totally incompetent. It explains why they often reach out to Pakistan (who has been equally unsuccessful, but never thinks it is).
Then they seem to be simply incompetent? Can it really be this simple and uncomplicated? 😳
I can share a few anecdotes about this involving not just the arabs but even the persians. Their Navy trains/used to train ( not sure now ) with the Indian Navy. The impression within our Navy uniformly was that these persians were absolutely hopeless. Their revolutionary guards were “marginially better” but overall thought of as nothing more than a ragtag bunch.
Given this background, americans getting bogged down the way they have is an eye opener about how bad things have gone for the Americans.
I think the arabs are even worse. My aunt was a teacher in Qatar. She gave the students in class 8 a big lecture about how to do well in life and contribute to their society and country etc. One of the students got up and said: ” Vidya Ma’am, if I need to get all this work done, instead of doing it myself I will just hire Ahmed here ( his egyptian classmate ) and pay him well. He will do all this for me” .
How can such people ever fight?
Within the Arab set, the gulflets actually have the best record, they have simply never bothered to fight and completely depend on paying protection money to the US.
In a way, that has been a tactical success, until it ran into the thug who picks up his protection money boeing and then camps at the end of the alley throwing rocks while your store burns down.
Also the Iranian Navy is the orphaned step child of the Iranian forces. They were quite happy to let the ships get torpedoed instead of staying safe in Vishakhpatnam harbour as offered.
Common thread in these examples is the kleptocratic rot that gets induced in oil rich regimes.
Several arab states have resources to procure hardware. They may even have esprit de corps. But if we are talking culture , I don’t think they have institutional self-discipline. Go to a Lebanon hotel vs their exceptional household level hospitality. They don’t do the former as well as they should
The yemanis were/are considered as stiff necked and guard material in gulf. Their fighting capabalitywas never in question.
Even tippu, nizam and many others had yemanis in their armies.
Our oweisi is said to be from these people.
Cut and paste from wiki –
##Origin of the Name: The community is heavily concentrated in Barkas, a vibrant neighborhood in the Old City of Hyderabad whose name is a local corruption of the English word “barracks,” as it originally served as military quarters for the Nizam’s Arab troops.Cultural Hub: Often called a “mini Yemen,” Barkas is home to over 200,000 Arab descendants from numerous tribes who have carefully preserved aspects of their distinct heritage, architecture, and lifestyle
Perhaps, limited to the last 100 years though, every Arab country has been hopeless.
The Yemenis have had the good fortune of only going up against the Saudis, who they have routed, often in the midst of civil wars.
Their close cousins across the sea – the Somalis, got their wopping from the Ethiopians (with Castro’s help) in 78.
It is quite an unparalleled record. Arab vs non Arab.
The Japanese race is 105 IQ, the Arabs are 85 IQ.
Although I dont think this is the full picture.
The Japanese developed modern western institutions under the Meiji reforms which allowed them to modernize their army and become a great force.
The Arabs didnt develop any western styled institutions that would either produce weapons of war or win wars. Peninsular Arabs got easy money and all the ills that come with it and the Levant Arabs got divided and destroyed by Israel and have been kept down since.
I have no doubt that Saudis would get run over by the Houthis if the Americans, Pakistanis and Turks abandon them. Just speak to an average Saudi for a few minutes and you will easily understand why they will lose.
Your point is that the Arabs are mentally incapable? Not getting into the tangent on the issues with IQ measurement, lets control for it.
I’m sure Chad does not top any IQ chart, and yet they happily topped Gaddafi.
Likewise Iran Iraq are very comparable societally, am going to assume IQ too, and yet the Arab side really underperformed a war where they had every advantage.
Same in Ethiopia Vs Somalia (I’ll admit this is a poorer example as the Cubans did a lot).
Kurds militarily outperformed everyone in the ISIS wars despite battling multiple fronts. Used to give Saddam a hard time, until he decided to genocide them with helicopter launched chemical weapons.
Everyone happily points at oil wealth as a reason for Arab failure. The Arabs, unlike the Nigerians and Angolans seem to have been perfectly capable of building generational economic wealth, just 0 military capacity.
Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon performed terribly despite no obscene wealth, military rule, constant state of paranoia and preparation due to a hostile neighbour.
Also the Japanese won all their battles against people who will score similarly on an IQ test
Modern large-scale warfare is fundamentally an industrial, administrative endeavor. The stereotypical “warrior ethos” is actually at odds with institutional-bureaucratic discipline which is upstream of military effectiveness. Certain west asians, arabs, and even NW Indians have a sort of high extroversion/expressiveness + high neuroticism that leads to institutional pathologies. Among west asians, the Iranian archetype seems different, more ruminative and inheritors of the scribal/bureaucratic legacy that translates to the tactical patience that they are showing right now. In south asia, I’d look at the SL tamils (low expressiveness/ low- neuroticism) as an interesting archetype in that they were a small minority non-state actor that built a disciplined conventional army. Other examples would be the low display-neuroticism, high institutional trust, and emotional restraint cultures of east asia creating bureaucratic war machines. Japan we all know about, and Vietnam’s resistance too, but consider how impoverished china was in the cold war, at or below economic parity with india without even the legacy of the British Imperial army, but they fought multi-front proxy wars against both superpowers.
Pollacks book – where he analyses multiple fascinating engagements, and his conclusion in every one of them is that the Arabs completely lack any tactical capability.
The battles they lose badly (1967) is a combination of 0 strategic or tactical capability.
The battles they win – start of the Yom Kippur war – is due to excellent strategy drilled into the soldiers enabling them to perform for a while, but 2-3 days in, when the immediate set piece plan is exhausted and the soldiers need to improvise tactically, they tend to freeze up.
The Vietnamese and Chadians on the other hand fight a spectacular tactical war. Unit commanders seeing a localised objective and figuring how to achieve it.
It’s hard for me to get a feel for why this is. Personally I like your explanation better. Strangely for a military analyst Pollack doesn’t harp on the logistics so much. Maybe because it makes for boring reading.
Great point. Also Pakistan lost the 71 war despite the Pattons (40), a larger contingent of soldiers (2000-4000) against a few Indian soldiers (120) at Longewala.
IQ can be improved with better diet and (controversially) early childhood training and education. But this is a a discussion for another time.
What I refer to is the absolute amount of elite human capital avilable to every country that is very important for industry, commerce, science and more importantly – modern warfare. This is essential along with a warrior culture for any country to become a formidable fighting force.
Having lived in GCC and know many people in the family who lived there, almost everyone has the exact same view point about peninsular Arabs: they are rich, lazy, entitled brats. That is not to say that they are not nice or not hospitable, but hospitality is common amongst people who live in harsh terrain. They are simply not competent because competence was never required nor developed. They were camel herders before discovering oil, and the culture has not evolved past that, because getting an infinite money glitch removed any incentive to be industrious. UAE is probably the only nation that has somewhat tried to copy the West but they too have the same ills. The Arabs never set up industry, their militaries are geared to prevent coups and not to fight wars, they set up massive welfare states for their citizenry to keep them from revolting like other Arab nations. They outsourced all the brains and all the brawn to Europeans/South Asians and they outsourced their security to the Americans. It only worked because of the neo liberal world order allowed it to, but this would have never worked pre 1945 and it won’t work in the future.
Coming on to the fertile crescent, these Arab countries have been kept down by Israel. There is no other reason for them to be so bad as they are now. These people are intelligent and sophisticated but they never got a real start that was not thwarted by Israel. While Britian and France played their games after WW1, these countries would still have had an upward trajectory if it was not for Israel. A small country of mostly European immigrants and connections, financed by Zionist bankers and superpowers. They have an infinite money and weapons glitch with which they fight wars, and fund intelligence operations in neighbouring countries’ politics to keep them divided, in strife and weak. They know that not doing that risks their own security, so this will continue. Israel has used the US to successfuly destroy Iraq and Syria. Egypt was tamed by heavy US bribes and systematically made toothless by creating a western weapons depenency out of which they can’t escape that easily. The only country they have not yet been able to break is Iran. If they fail against Iran, Iran will dominate the Middle East. If they succeed, Israel will dominate the Middle east. This is the game that is being played.
👍 analysis. I agree with almost everything so much that I cannot even be back handed about it.
It is a bit focused on the 21st century. At the height of the Soviets, the Syrians and Egyptians did not lack weapons and were not economically worse off than Israel.
Yemen has neither oil money, nor is heavily meddled with by Israel, is located strategically – and has been in a perpetual civil war with small breaks in between.
It is going to be interesting to see how the Houthis stand up vs NATO in the upcoming clash.
Finally there is an entire swathe of states in North Africa, where bizarre ideas like democracy get experimented with. Happily they don’t really involve themselves in fights, when they’ve tried, they performed terribly vs Saharan tribes.
Even today it is the French zooming around the desert projecting force.
The Arab & Muslim countries should be one nation in the way China & India are..
The fact that the Arabian Penninsula is divided into 10-15 states is not a coincidence
Won’t happen unless there’s an existential threat to their survival. We’ve seen the Saudis, Emeratis, and Qataris bickering like children while they’re all being bombarded by Iranian drones the whole time. Hell the Bahrainis seem to feel more at home with Iran while their monarchy is supported from outside by the Saudis. It’s too complicated of a region to be simply papered over into a singular unit now.
Superb comment.
This may be the first time I’ve ever agreed with any of your comment and that too in its entirety lol.
But this is where the consensus frays – From an Indian pov, Pakistan is subcontinental Israel – colonial outpost designed to keep this civilization divided and down. Of course, the big difference being it is not a country of European settlers so you don’t get the same level of support but the nature of the problem remains the same.
The 71 Bangladesh war has an interesting parallel to the 67 Israeli war.
Pakistan very famously did a pre-emptive strike – operation Ghengiz, attempting to replicate Israelis pre emptive strike in 67 which took out nearly the entire Egyptian air force (300 air craft, 18 bases, 100 pilots).
It was sound PK strategy, even if not very imaginative, but failed to account for the difference in tactical execution with the Israelis.
Meanwhile, it isn’t clear what IG and the IAF were doing. In the midst of an imminent war, the Western command radar did not spot any planes, they had no reconnaissance, the entry was unchallenged.
About the best one can say is they had some intel and the sense to keep the planes in hardened concrete hangars.
After the runways were hit, and repaired same day, they executed good tactical ops with very effective counter strikes.
This brings us back to the question. For all the vaunted TNT, the Pakistanis are not culturally that different. Somewhat like the Arabs though they keep thinking of themselves as a ‘martial’ race (even though, they and the Arabs were just as colonised as peninsular India).
The British put this exploitive idea in their heads with their caste classification, allowing them to twirl their moustaches happily so that the fetters felt comfortable.
There’s something in this that I can’t quite put my finger on. I think it’s a tendency to rush straight into a problem and try to overwhelm it. That used to be all brave and macho but does not work with modern warfare, which is about planning, strategy, execution, but most importantly a flexibility around tactics.
Cavalry charges were the pre eminent form of war right up until massed gunfire.
I think both indians and afghans have tried to portray Pakistan as some version of Israel but the fact is that Pakistan is not created on stolen land nor is Pakistan coveting other country’s territory, nor was this land promised in the Quran 3000 years ago, nor are Pakistanis foreign settlers etc etc. Infact, it is both India and Afghanistan that claim Pakistani territory.
The British united Indian polities when they conquered it, the British divided India when they left. There is no evidence that they wanted to divide it to control it, on the contrary they made every effort to keep what they created – intact.
This idea of some united indian civilization only exists in Indian minds, and is a modern conception. India was always a diverse region, never really united in history until the British. Indo-Islamic civilization is very different then Hindu civilization. This is hard to accept for Hindus but Muslims see a lot of Hindus who are not their co-ethnic or co-linguistic group as very alien in culture and mannerism, not just in religion. A sindhi muslim does not think that he belongs to the same civilization as a UP muslim, let alone a UP hindu. A PakPunjabi Muslim may find familiarity with Punjabi HindusSikhs, but his civilizational radius only extends to Indian North West, and maybe UP/Bihar due to language but that’s about it. Pasthuns hate Hinduism, no matter what the Afghans tell you. Language and religion plays a big part in ethnic formation and since many Indians here insist on retaining both, this creates natural divisions that are not going to be overcome by making false claims about civilizational unity.
Pakistan simply allies with the West or China because the neighbourhood is hostile. Otherwise most Pakistanis are anti West and apathetic towards China
interesting comment
Naturally PK is not Israel civilisationally, stick to the military metaphor.
Like Israel it does play at trying to ruin everyone else’s century.
The Israelis are just competent at it.
Meanwhile wannabe pre-emtive strike jocks lost their pants and half the country attempting to imitate.
🙂
You love to spout nonsensical theories on what India and Indians are or aren’t, while not having the foggiest. Keep trying.
Whose everyone else? Only India, and Indians think its their century counting the chickens before the eggs are even laid.
Pakistan enjoys good relations with everyone within 2000km of proximity (even Bangladesh) apart from two countries that claim our territory or interfere in our affairs.
Pakistan resolved all British inherited border disputes with China back in 1963 which has led to a deep fruitful alliance, something Indians have been incapable of doing for the past 80 years, resulting in getting encircled.
It all depends on how you choose to define ‘fruitful’. Selling out to the CCP thus far has allowed PakMil to sustain its disproportionate dominance over Pakistani citizens, but apart from that did the ‘Iron brother’ save Pakistan from being dismembered?
The Indian experience with colonialism, and its inherent size has left it deeply reluctant to commit to unequal alliances – something that Pakistani jernails have seldom hesitated from.
Its one thing to put lipstick on a pig, quite another to brag about it as if it were a supermodel.
The sad state of affairs are such that even the Iron brothers are looking to hedge their bets. China no longer holds any hope out for the CPEC the crown jewel of the BRI plans. What happens when the gulf can’t afford to roll over their loans anymore? What happens when the Chinese look to cut their loses and hand over the maintenance of Gwadar port over to Pakistan?
Bangladesh should have been a seperate country from the start but it was at the insistence of Congress (that was afraid of a United Bengal proposal) that East Pakistan ever became an unsustainable reality. We don’t share much with Bengalis and honestly we don’t really think about them much and they are not part of our national discourse or imagination. Infact I would say even they (Bengalis) don’t think or care about us much. It is only Indians that care about this issue, an I don’t blame them, this is the only lone victory of ‘Hindu civilization’ over the Muslim or Western in several centuries, and even this seems fleeting without the constant reminder.
Pakistan did not have any real allies in 1971 (US put a weapons embargo on Pakistan during the 1965 war so neither were they ever going to do much apart from diplomatic support)
However fast forward to 2026: India has no allies while Pakistan has several. I don’t expect anyone to join Pakistan in any conflict with India or Afghanistan, but I do expect logistical and arms support and in a war, that’s most of what really matters.
If an all out prolonged war breaks out that carries on for months and casues a lot of destruction.. there is no one that wil come to your aid. You import all your weapons and you don’t make much. Nobody will be selling you planes or drones (not even Russia) or AD. Your army is undermanned and facing a two front situation. While Pakistan will also face a lot of problems, they won’t be these problems because Pakistan do have powerful allies, carefuly curated, that have a vested interest in keeping India down. If China ever decides to mobilize troops at the right time (they don’t even have to invade), you will be stretched and outgunned and out manouvered. Your military planners know this, your PM knows this.. this is why no conflict with Pakistan will ever last more than a few days because neither side really wants all out war as that means the destruction of both countries.
So to retain the honor and do izzat maxing, the region will see bouts of clashes every few years but nothing too serious.
So much BS history compressed into a tightwad of nonsense.
1971 war the US sent the 7th fleet to assist you.
Jordanian starfighhters flew missions with Pakistani colours.
Iran sent logistics and provided a safe haven for your aircraft to hide in when pak bases were being pummeled.
Your selective amnesia does a lot of editing, centuries of denying your origins with self hate has cursed you to turn into a blight upon this earth.
Like Ashwatthama you shall roam disfigured and pustule ridden until the illusions slip from your mind, memory returns, and the Sindhu can cleanse your sins.
Let him have this one man. He lost half his country and is poorer than any other nation in the region now. He has to justify the horrible decisions that led him down that road. In a generation or two they’ll make Bhutto’s dream come true, Eating grass while having nukes.
Oh, he’s no shrinking violet and will happily troll you when he can.
You keep attempting long term game theory cooperation strategy believing that the other player will attempt to be rational at some point.
It is commendable, but only works if the other person cares more about his well being than hurting you.
The funniest part of his diatribe is that he somehow believes that during ’71 Pakistan had no alliances when in fact it was the time when US alliances were at their peak in Asia with Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UK, and several other major nations at their beck and call. In comparison the alliance structures which Pakistan finds itself in today would be more appropriate to be called “moth-eaten”. There was a time when Pakistan could call it self the most allied ally of the west through its pacts such as SEATO and CENTO. The fact that those times are completely forgotten is perhaps the most amusing part of this whole discussion.
Our alliances shone through during Operation Sindoor. Both Turkey & China stood up and Indians got spooked. Nothing of this sort ever happened before, so good luck if you think you had it worse before, things are going to be much worse in the future.
It suits us when the enemy underestimates us.
Lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB4KUCT8hro
The US fleet was not active since the Soviets provided deterrence to India in 1971. There is no Soviet Union now and India has no allies – a situation of its own making. There will be no deterrence coming forth from anywhere in the next conflict. I don’t think India is prepared.. I am very happy that you can continue counting your coppers like you have always done until you lose it all in war. At $3,000 GDP per cap and mediocre military capacity, you are not intimidating anyone in the neighbourhood let alone in the world.
As for ‘memory’ & ‘origins’, you need to learn to accept your and your religious origins (as I explained in the genetics threads) rather than denying it with cope about OIT.
OIT is not something I have ever claimed, nor to contradict genetic data. The last throes of a failing argument is to prop up strawmen.
Vipra buddhi and all.
Have you been counting people gunned down in POK by the green badge terrorists, or is that not even a meaningful stat nowadays?
Last I read, it’s above 100. Enduring shame that the only century is in the abominable atrocity of ending human life.
Yes yes, “I never claimed OIT, I just claim everything that people who claim OIT claim”
My article is up and every claim in it has a citation.
I have no truck with OIT, it does not seem like a theory based on evidence I find credible.
Meanwhile you’re making up silly claims about PAK allies which are provenly false.
That you didn’t have them in 1971 – BS.
And that you have them now – again BS, you’re just a testbed for the Chinese and Turks, who get a life fire exercise at the cost of Pak reputation and lives.
Send a link to one of your humiliation videos, I’ll watch it and you can buy a flat in Karachi on the returns per view.
As Bob Marley and his friends would ask – A di gud-gud kaya dat?
So in future This will be the dialogue :
Pak: mera pas amreica hai, cheen hai, turky hai. tumhara pass Kya hai?
Ind: mera pas bumb hai.
(excuse my Hindi /urdu/hindustani)
Whattay dialogue sirji 😀
I think both indians and afghans have tried to portray Pakistan as some version of Israel but the fact is…
Off the top of my head,
Only 2 countries in the world founded with religion as the sole raison d’être.
Countries that engineered their demographics through the most brutal violence and tactics to evict its natives. On this count, Pakistan is actually even worse because at least Israelis can claim that it is their spiritual homeland.
Western outpost used to project power in to the region.
Only countries that benefit from wars and strife in their immediate vicinity so they can leverage their position. At least the Israelis do this better than your rentier state which has been a treat ally in the past too.
Uses American weapons to bomb civilian infra like hospitals.
You get the drift, or perhaps, you won’t actually.
Pakistani did not evicted anyone in 1947, stop lying. Partition violence happened both ways and was not spearheaded by the government.
Pakistan’s minority population has actually increased as a percentage since 1947 including its Hindu population. Minorities have guaranteed seats in the parliament, ruling party & the opposition, unlike India where the ruling party is openly exclusionary towards Muslims who form almost 20% of its population. So please spare us the nonsense comparision.
There’s gaslighting and then there is whatever this is – rhetoric so laughably misplaced and deceptive that I don’t really care about a rebuttal anymore.
Didn’t Pakistan quite recently evict around 3-4 million Afghans? I really don’t think you understand the meaning of the word minorities. It means someone who isn’t Punjabi in Pakistan.
War in Afghanistan is over, refugees are being sent back now, especially when Pakistan has hosted them for decades and they continue to show hostility towards their country of refuge.
How many Afghan refugees did India take? We would be happy to send them over if you want them
Has Pakistan taken the Bihari Mohajir refugees from 1971 yet?
More than half of them were repatriated to Pakistan in the 70’s and 80’s. The ones languishing there in Bangladesh that want to return to Pakistan are a national shame but most there do not want to be repatriated and since Bangladeshi courts have allowed them citizenship for those born after 1971. Not to mention that Pakistan itself hosts over 2 million Bengali refugees, that do not want to go to Bangladesh.
In any case, I think India should definitely take Afghan refugees before start to lecture Pakistan on the issue. It appears that even Pakistani Hindus are not accepted in India and most return to Pakistan in a few years.
Incisive and excellent comment. Surely you can write a post? Clearly you have a very good insight on the topic.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/ttp-sindh-pakistan-taliban-video-muhammad-bin-qasim-karachi-raja-dahir-islamic-conquest-itspc-3005486-2026-09-29
Interesting, Sindhi Muslims are getting liberated.