32 thoughts on “Open Thread”

  1. From the top 15 Cities where the readers are, there are 3 Pakistani cities , but apart from Kabir (and i think Mir) i haven’t come across anyone commenting/posting on this sub. Strange.

    1. The typical Telugu playbook is to get a cheap undergraduate engineering degree in India (even if not from a top college) then work for 1-2 years in Hyderabad/Bangalore and then either move to the US office of the said company or go for an MS.

      If all else fails, you could try getting a bride/groom with a green card.
      Seen this with a lot of people in my cohort.

      Telugus are the Gujjus of 2010’s.

      Another interesting observation is that Telugus tend to stick together a lot. You can see that in college campuses across India. There is always a ‘gult’ group.

      The in-group bonding is much higher than even Bengalis, who at some point used to be reputed for sticking together. And it is definitely much higher than other South Indians, who tend to mingle into a general Hinglish cosmopolitanism.

      1. Prats,

        The typical Telugu playbook is to get a cheap undergraduate engineering degree in India (even if not from a top college)

        I doubt this is for all Telugu’s maybe a particular segment of society.

        The last three Kings of Sri Lanka were of Waduga Tamil Telugu ancestry.
        Not a drop of Sinhalese ancestry.

        The Nayakars were Tamil speakers of Telugu ancestry who may also had Tamil ancestry.
        They had often the Tamil language as court language.

        This part below is news to me. Very unlikely though, Lankan kingdoms were busy fighting the Portuguese at that time.

        According to a Telugu work called Sinhaladvipa Katha, the Nayak king Kumara Krishnappa, who reigned at Madurai (1562–1572), is said to have conquered Kandy. Kumara Krishnappa killed the then reigning Kandy king, sent the late king’s wife and children to Anuradhapura and placed his own brother-in-law Vijaya Gopala Naidu as his viceroy in Kandy.


        1. It looks live every guy south of Vindhyas (and sometime east) got a shot at conquering Lanka. lol. Since they could hardly stand up to the northern Horde, might as well go beat the smaller guy down south.

          1. Saurav,

            The last Kings were not invaders. They inherited thru marriage.

            Much like the Victoria, German Saxe Coburg becoming English.

            The immediate family of the Last king was exiled to Madurai.

            Relatives who stayed back in in SL, they are keeping mum.

            In general invasions by South India ended up with hordes being assimilated into the Sinhalese identity.

        2. Doubtful story. While the Kandy rulers intermarried with brides from Madurai, the first true Nayak Kandy ruler was Kirti Raja sinha from 1747, it is not easy to determine whether his predecessor from ca. 1739, Vijaya Raja was clearly a Nayak, or just used Nayak connections. A confusing thing about the Nayaks was that they were 100% patrons of Buddhism while Nayaks back home were not. Another confusing thing was the Nayak dynasty in Madurai ended between 131-1736, and it was unclear how much help that the Kandy Nayaks could have gotten from Madurai nayaks.

          There is no evidence that the Nayaks had a say in Kandy rule before 1739. The Kandy kingdom was fully involved with Portugese skirmished between 1550 and 1739.

          1. sbarrkum

            Considering all these kings and royal, how much part do they take in Sri Lankan politics, In India even though the royals have been disenfranchised wrt to their property and money to a large extent, they still matter in politics and regularly win elections.

          2. Vijay, agreed re doubtful. I was in the wiki.

            Kirthi Sri Rajasinghe was responsible for reviving the Buddhist monastic order. Most Sri Lankans are not even aware that he was Tamil or whatever.

            Royals are unknown in SL. Maybe there are a few who claim based on family oral tradition, but unknown to the general public. The descendants of the top Mudaliyars (not a caste, a title/office created by the Brits) do have have some say, eg. Bandaranaike’s.

            One exception to Royals, a nut who claimed to be Emperor of Eelam (now of Jaffna) totally unknown. see jaffnaroyalfamily dot org.

            Appointments were non-transferable and usually hereditary, made to locals from wealthy influential families loyal to the British Crown

    1. @ Razib
      Didn’t even think about the mention of DNA in the post, I just found it interesting because I never would have guessed Telugu!

  2. Interesting post for its Pakistani Connection: Warning the website is quite right wing.
    Much is based on the Journal Obama’s ex girl friend, Genevieve Cook

    while that trio [of Pakistanis] was “doing lots of cocaine,” Barack “did not do as much as they did.” Indeed, Barack “did a lot less of everything, like for every five lines that somebody did, he would have done half …”

    In a more understated voice, Hasan agreed with Genevieve. “We dabbled in drugs,” but with Barack “there wasn’t anything excessive by him, by my standards.”


    1. Liked it! BTW i see what you did with the Yankee reference. It reminded me of the other thread where i pointed out that pre magyars Hungary cannot be called Hungary, similar to Indus /Harrapa cannot be called India/Bharat since India is a Indo-aryan construct. I have other questions but i will have ask it in due time

      1. Just a side comment…
        Hungarians came to Europe in 896BC (their Academy confirmed). Serbs already lived in this place, they were mixing over time, the estimate is that 40% of Hungarians are of Serbian origin. Serbs were in the 17th century still majority in Hungary. The official name of Hungary in Serbian is – Magyarska.

        1. milan, you must know that the hungarian academy is highly politicized right now over the details of the origin of magyars. i don’t know/care about which side is right etc .but multiple hungarian friends have told me this when looking at genetics papers.

          1. Thanks for info Razib. I visited Hungary and some museum historians told me that their Academy of Science got the task from the government to establish when Hungarians exactly came to Europe. They researched for pretty long time and found that must be within 4 years around 896. The government took one of these 4 years to be the official year and organised migration anniversaries. The percentage of 40% is one estimate (there is another of 25%). However, the fact is that Serbs were majority in the 17th century and after very aggressive assimilation there are now only 5000 Serbs in Hungary. Politics around this issue probably coming because of their dispute with Romania regarding Transylvania. But, this is one interesting issue which is not widely known, I may write comment about this when it comes across some related SA issue.

  3. RE: Aryans in Sri Lanka? (with phonetic names)

    Serbika (or Serika) was the name where Aryans lived in India. It probably originated immediately after the first Aryan expedition. Ammien Marcellin in his Histoire says that Serbika was one of 20 satrap-regions in Persian kingdom. It occupied very large space. Ammien cites 10 Serbian tribes and 4 largest towns: Asmira, Esedon, Asparata and Sera Metropolis (p.207). Under Himalaya were cities which remain on Sere: Sirinagor, Seharempur and Sirhind. On the river Sirdaria was a Serbian place, Serhend, from its town Serinda was brought silkworm to Europe during the reign of tsar Justinian. Most of these names are of Serbian origin.

    Today’s Sri Lanka, previously Ceylon, belonged to Serbika. Its name originated from Serbian name Serpska-dvipa (or shorter Serendib). Amien Markelin this island named as Seren-divus while Abu Rihan is Sirindib, what is Serendib for European navigators. A. Cunningham (The Ancient Geography of India) says that from this name became Arabic name Zilan, i.e. Ceylon (p.470).

    In Sanskrit it is mentioned as Ratna-dvipa, some read this as Pearl-island, where is the word Dvipa=island. More likely that Ratna-dvipa is War-island (rat=war in Serbian). It is also mentioned as Sinhala-dvipa (or Sinhala-dipa). Sinhala means Lion’s or Lion’s origin. Serendib or modern Sri Lanka is considered that was populated with Aryans (some call them Vedas) and that in 504 BC the island experienced a massive immigration of Hindu. Pausania says that from this island was coming silk via ocean road. Over time, the size of Serbika got smaller and not so numerous Serbian tribes were melting within much numerous Hindu people. Serbika the longest persisted in Punjab.

  4. More evidence that advanced civilizations existed in many parts of the world before the last ice age or before 9700 BC:

    Many maps in the ancient world, including as late as the Piri Reis map from 1513, showed the world as it was circa 12000 years ago. Including the old coastlines of Antarctica.

    Milan, can you share about how the last ice age affected Serbia?

    Another question, is 9700 BC too early to be the great flood of Noah? I think so. The flood of Noah according to biblical dating is approximately 3000 BC. Of course that dating could be wrong; however it corresponds to the beginning of Kaliyuga, the beginning of the current Yuga for Mayans and Sumerians. Is there scientific evidence of a mini flood around 3000 BC in greater Iraq?

    Another question is with respect to Kumari Kandam. Could Kumari Kandam be the pre 9700 BC greater Indonesian/Thailand/Cambodian/Vietnamese landmass? Might Gunung Padang (A Java pyramid with a larger base than the great pyramid of Egypt) be part of Kumari Kandam?

    If so, parts of Gunung Padang have been carbon dated to 28,000 years ago. [Some parts of the pyramid have been carbon dated to 13,000 years too. Various samples in between too. Depending on where the samples were taken in the pyramid.]

    1. I’ll get back to you about the last ice age. About biblical flood…
      Serbs once used the old calendar which measured time from the “creation of the world on 1 September 5508 BC”? The great floods back then formed the present Black Sea from the freshwater lake, raising its level by over 100m, joining it with the Mediterranean, also forming a stream of the Danube River. According to this calendar, on 1st April 2018 we actually celebrated New Year 7527. Beside Serbs, this calendar was also used by the East Roman Empire, Russians and several other European nations. This calendar was discovered in Vinca and started immediately after the big flood. The scientists found saltwater mussels layer in its top 100 meters and freshwater mussels layer bellow.

      The proof that the Serbs once used this old calendar can be found in numerous inscriptions, monuments and documents. It can be seen in tsar Dušan’s Code, written in 6857. The inscription on the Smederevo Fortress says it was built in 6938. Also, the oldest preserved documents dated by this old calendar are the Studenica Typikon from 1195 (6703) and the Karyes Typikon of Saint Sava from 1199 (6707). Serbs used this calendar until the end of the 17th century (some think even until the beginning of the 19th century). Until then, all documents, tombstones, charters, today’s cultural monuments were dated according to this calendar. After this period, the Serbs accepted the Julian calendar, and in 1919 the Gregorian calendar. However, the Serbian variant of the old calendar stands out for being the only one with dates formatted as follows – year-month-day.

      1. So there was a massive flood approximately 9,700 BC and a mini great flood 5508 BC?

        My view is that Serbian civilization might have been very advanced more than 10,000 BC, before the last great global flood.

        1. I really haven’t researched the period before Lepenski Vir (the first discovered urban settlement in Europe) and Vinca, i.e. 10.000 BC. There are some indications about archaeological findings which can assert that humans appeared in Europe earlier than in Africa but there are still very early days. Considering that alphabet in Vinca is 6-7000 years old, we can have some ideas about the period before that. It can be conditionally called ‘Serbian civilisation’, I am not sure if this term existed at that time. This just remained me to research since when precisely the Serbian name was in use. I mentioned already that I am sceptical about highly developed civilisations before 10.000 BC but I am open to be persuaded in opposite.

  5. I was comparing the facial features of two of the famous artifacts from IV civilization. The “priest king” and the “dancing girl”.


    Is it just me, or do others also see the priest-king more Caucasoid looking, and the girl more aboriginal looking.

    Going by the recent genetic publications on the IV civilization population, they were apparently a mix of two populations, the so called Iranian Farmers, and the AASI. Is it reasonable to assume that the farmer population will be more Caucasoid looking?

    Now, the priest king is obviously from the upper class of the society (expensive decorative dress, head gear etc.). The girl is most likely lower class (she is naked, a practitioner of world oldest profession?)

    Does it all suggest a hierarchical society where Farmer stock subjugated the AASI stock and put in the seeds of caste/class/racial segregation?

    Now this is the true agent provocateur post. 🙂 Feel free to indulge in your own wild theories.

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