24 thoughts on “Iran Pakistan border”

  1. The border video is completely misleading. Iran is hugely dependent on imports for its food requirements (0.62 $ exports per $ of import), while Pakistan is a bit more self sufficient (0.7$ exports per $ of import).

    That being said, Iranians will appreciate Pakistan a lot more in the coming years as they understand the full extent of how Persianate Pakistani society is. They have yet to realize the years of India’s rich output the ancestors of modern day Pakistanis managed to direct towards the expression of Perso-Islamic civilization, complete with the odd exotic Indian touch.

    1. You do know that Iran and Pakistan don’t really like each other since Iran is a Shia state and Pakistan is a Sunni-majority one?

      1. Sectarian differences are only amplified by contingent political factors. However, civilizational bonds are deeper. I cant see an Iranian visitor feeling anything but pride and affinity when they see the architecture of the Badshahi Masjid and the Shah Jahan mosque. Anyone’s heart is sure to skip a beat when they sees this great triumph of one’s culture and heritage.

        1. I may be wrong on this, but my impression is that common people don’t care much for culture and heritage as elites with some passion for history/arts/architecture do. Prosperity and larger middle classes will make some difference to this, but I doubt much.

          1. I agree that Vikram is overestimating both how “Persianate” Pakistan is and the degree of affinity that Pakistanis and Iranians feel for each other.

          1. I agree that “Indo-Persian” is the appropriate term.

            The national anthem is in Persianized Urdu.

            I would be interested to know how Iranians feel about Pakistanis. On a personal level, I was always much more plugged in with other “desis” rather than with Iranians or other Middle Easterners. Urdu-Hindi and Hindustani classical music were the main bonding aspects, neither of which were really shared by Iranians.

            At the State level, Pakistan is clearly allied with Sunni Saudi Arabia rather than with Shia Iran.

          2. Its a bit like the relationship between the UK and the US. In the 19th century, the two countries were famously cold to each other. But the elite sections of the UK and later the middle classes there saw the opportunity for a close cultural partnership, which eventually materialized.

            In the case of South Asia, it is the Persianate elites of South Asia (of any claimed religion) who see the opportunity for bonding. In India, the resurgence of a native Indic based culture (mixed with Western elements as Zack notes in a different post) prevents such an alignment. However, Pakistanis face no such influence.

            The Shahnameh will become the Mahabharata of Pakistan.

          3. Vikram,

            I don’t think Pakistanis are that into the Shahnameh. But perhaps you know different Pakistanis than I do.

      2. I guess somebody should bring up all the horrible things hindus had to say in their foundational texts about various Iranian tribes or their religious ways in the distant past.

        1. Examples please? Please keep in mind that some have read these texts.

          By foundational texts do you mean Vedas?

          Many Indologists believe that Iranians worshiped Daityas and Danavas. I am not convinced that this is correct. But if it is; the Daityas and Danavas are extensively praised for their many positive qualities throughout the 18 Mahapurana Itihasas, Mahabharata Itihasa, Ramayana Itihasa, Hari Vamsha and numerous other texts.

          I would be curious to learn how Daityas and Danavas are regarded (if at all) in the Mahavamsha that is popular in Sri Lanka. I have not read the Mahavamsha yet.

          Another important point; mlechcha isn’t necessarily bad. Some mlechchas are great rishis, tapaswis and Siddhas. Several foreigners come from some distant place and then transform Arya Varsha.

          1. Praising positive qualities of some members of a group does not preclude them being enemies or rivals. And you just made my case with that observation about mlechhas. Sure, some barbarians are honorable but that doesn’t mean barbarians aren’t barbarians.

          2. The Daityas and Danavas and Ravana/Kumbakarna for that matter are Brahmin Varna. They are not Mleccha. They are so great that many still worship them. Thai buddhists believe that Ravana took birth again to protect Buddha (reincarnation of Rama); which is why some Thai Buddhist temples have sculptures of Ravana in front of them to protect Buddha.

            Mleccha means someone who does not want to associate with Sanathana Dharma. Anyone has the right to do this. And there are Brahma Jnaani Mleccha. “Mleccha” isn’t necessarily a criticism.

            Criticism against foreign cultures is frowned upon. Sanathana Dharma implies that there are many paths to the same goal.

        2. D,

          Why? It is not necessary to discuss Hindus on topics where they are not relevant. The original post had nothing to do with Hinduism or “eastern philosophy” as some call it.

          1. Not at all, just pointing out the interesting parellel of ideological rivalry between Iran/Shia and Pakistan/Sunni today that you brought up versus that of Iran/Zoroastrianism and India/Hinduism from a couple of millennia ago. The fact the latter assertion has to be explicitly defended nowadays (rather than being self-evident to anyone even nominally familiar with the religions) says a lot about ‘fundamental ideological rivalries’.

          2. D,
            I don’t doubt your intentions, but now you have given Anan another occasion to go on and on about “Sanathana Dharma”. Can we please have a Hinduism free discussion once and a while?

            I have no problem with people discussing Hinduism when it is relevant to the post. I can avoid posts on “Sanathana Dharma” since I frankly am not interested in intra-Hindu discussions of your mythology.

        1. Which Jatt or Rajput or Gujjar does that? Pakistan is full of Bajwas, KehloNs, Randhawas, Khatanas, Sudhans, Salarias, Sammas, Chohans, Soomros or Junejos…

          They ruled Sindh and Punjab and still rule Sindh and Punjab. Except they are Muslim now.

          PS: Pak Army has a better bench strength pound for pound than the Iranian one. Second only to Turkiye Ordusu in the Ummah

  2. In the Asian Media, there was mentioned the name of Serbian warrior rank – Geti. Zacharie Mayani (Les Hyksos et le monde de la Bible, Payot, Paris, 1956, p.241) says: “Gatas – the Iranian people, which had a language close to Vedic that one who understood one of them was understanding the other “. At Diodor is the information that Queen Semira (the wife of the first Aryan leader who built Babylon) logged on with the army on Mount Bagistan, which is modern Behistan. He says that the mountain was called because it was dedicated to the God (Bog – stan, in Serbian). There was also a city named Bagistan, southeast of Ekbatan. Although Ekbatan was the capital of the Media, the most beautiful city was Nisa, which was well known by its horses throughout the whole Asia.

    The name of the town of Nisa was changed to Raga (the name for old horse in Serbian), then Seleuk I gives this city the name of Europo, according to his birthplace city with the same name near the river Vardar. This is now modern Tehran. The younger brother of the first king of Macedonia, Perdike I Karanovic, whose name was Europ, ruled about 700 BC in the middle part of the river Vardar (Povardarje). Its principality was called Europe. By this principality, Europe got its name.

    1. PS. Nisa or Niza (now, modern Tehran) is one of several cities in Europe, Asia and Africa named after the birthplace of the first Aryan leader, Nino Belov, who founded Babylon and ruled the first Assyrian kingdom. For 17 years he conquered almost whole Asia except India and Bactria. He conquered (in Serbian, phonetic) – Babylonia, Armenia, Media, Misir-Egypt, Fenikija, Kolo-Syria, Kilikia, Pamfilia, Likia, Karia, Frigia, Lidia, Trojada, Frigia on Dardaneli, Propontida, Bitinia, Kapadohia, all nations on Black Sea until the river Don. Also, he became a master of Kadus, Tapir, Hirkan, Drang, Derbik, Karman, Horomnea, Barkan, Partia, Persia, Suziana, Kaspiana and other smaller nations.

      His wife Semirama built the stone bridge in Vardun (= old name for Babylon = tower on the sand, in Serbian) which length was 887 meters. The remains of the bridge pillars were found and they had dimensions 21×9 meters and 9 meters the range between the pillars. In the middle of the Babylon, Semirama built 8-floors high temple (Zigurat) of the god Bel. His golden statue and other two were on the top of the temple. On the top of the temple was also the astronomical observatory.

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