Karan Johar dons the Pakistan flag..

Image result for india pakistan kiss
I don’t know why but the Pakistani chap looks like the spitting image of K-Jo. The K-Joification of India is underway (by that I mean Westoxication more than anything else) but will it catch on in Pakistan?
The Turanian poetic traditions abounds with same-sex love; I would rather we build on that rather than import it from the West.

18 thoughts on “Karan Johar dons the Pakistan flag..”

  1. Nice picture:)

    I don’t know why you think LGBT rights is a Western import. People everywhere should have the right to love whoever they want.

    However, it’s not going to happen in Pakistan due to the religious nature of the State. If people argue against Section 377, they will be told that Shariah has even worse punishments for homosexuality. So it’s a non-starter. Gay men in Pakistan are going to be stuck in the closet with wives and children for societal acceptance, quite like the 1950s US.

    1. I believe we should rely on our own indigenous traditions; did Ghaznavi have Mamluk etc? Homosexuality in a Muslim rather than Oscar Wildean garb please.

      You can’t go on justifying Pakistan’s shitty nature; Indians to their credit take a very incisive view on India & Hinduism. The Urdu-Speaking inheritance is liberal, syncretic and hedonistic.

      Also our society is extraordinarily erotic because so much is forbidden. All I’m saying there is a sweet spot between liberty and permissiveness; the Death of Sex in the West (and the Rise of Fetishes/Identity) is a sign of an aging less vigorous civilisation.

      Pakistan should modernise without Westernising. Eventually global civilisation should be a balance of East and West.

      1. We’ll have to agree to disagree on gay rights being a “western import”. I don’t think there is anything “western” about gay marriage and equal rights. I don’t know what “homosexuality in Muslim garb” looks like. Right now, gay men in Pakistan are forced to be closeted and to marry women for social acceptance. I find this very hypocritical and unfair to the woman as well. People should be able to live their lives openly , even if that makes society less “extraordinarily erotic”.

        I’m not justifying anything but simply pointing out that the Pakistani Constitution states that “all laws must conform to Quran and Sunnah”. In such a case, arguments that Section 377 should go are not going to be successful. Most mainstream Islamic scholars think homosexuals should be put to death. Even the “liberal” ones think they should lead sexless lives. India is a secular state (on paper) and even then it was an uphill battle to get rid of 377.

        Sadly Pakistani gay men have the choice to live in the closet in Pakistan or move to a more civilized country where they are free to be who they really are.

        1. Homosexuality as a public identity is a modern Western invention. Gay rights is a modern Western invention.

          The Turanian/Muslim tradition of same sex love is pederasty, same as in Ancient Greece. Although, I suppose the same vagueness that allowed classical Persian love poetry to be reinterpreted in a heterosexual light would also allow it to be reinterpreted in a non-pederastic homosexual light. Poets as well as prophets matter more in their interpretation than their intent.

          1. yes.

            i think the key to observe is in the last quarter of the 20th-century relationships between people of the same sex were reconceptualized and framed in a way that mimicked companionate bourgeois monogamy. even though not all ‘queer’ (the new new term) folk were down with that. but that’s how ‘gay marriage’ happened.

            sex between people of the same sex has been happening for a long time to various degrees of acceptance. but it came in really different forms than the particular instantiation of ‘gay rights’ today.

            (e.g., ancient romans were much more intolerant of same sex relationships than say athenians, but there was no moral problem in rome for masters raping their slaves of either sex).

          2. Fraxinicus is correct. The way these things have been understood in Asia for thousands of years before Christ is different.

            Because of reincarnation it is believed that most people have had many lives in many genders (male, female, both {Ardhanarishvara}, neither, mixed, and others . . . .both in human species and in many other species . . . both in this world and many different worlds in different contexts that are hard for the human mind to comprehend.

            More than a hundered stories can be shared from Sanathana Dharma. There is incredible diversity and multiplicity.

            Because of this, there is an understanding of difference. I think in time the West will get there. When all types of gender become fluid, normal and accepted. And when labels such as LBBTQ+ {no one can keep track of all the covered types} falls away.

            The east has more than five sensory inputs (here east is defined as the ten Darshanas of Sanathana Dharma + Toaism), and many levels of awareness and consciousness. A much broader understanding of the brain and nervous system. When someone is continually aware of many subtle levels of sensory inputs, thoughts, awareness, consciousness . . . then a broader experience of gender is possible. This eastern perspective is not understood by many yet . . . but I suspect it will be.

            In the east, yin and yang, pakriti and purusha, para Shakti and para Shiva are part of every person. Everyone is both male and female. Only self realized people can be fully female or fully male. And some self realized people transcend male and female.

          3. ” but there was no moral problem in rome for masters raping their slaves of either sex”

            Razib, moderns often say this about ancients. But I wonder about the degree to which this is true. Abusing slaves is a sin and slave owners are afraid of committing sin. Not that they don’t do it. But if they do it, wouldn’t they experience guilt, fear of divine punishment, and fear of social censor?

            Somehow I don’t think this was as common in the ancient past as people now believe.

            Although sexual harassment in the work place is very real today; so moderns are no better and maybe worse than ancients.

          4. Of course gay rights is a modern Western phenomenon. However, I don’t see the need for “homosexuality in Muslim garb”. All civilized societies are moving towards giving sexual minorities the right to live their lives openly. Everyone should have equal rights. It’s really not that difficult.

            There are some things in which Western culture truly is superior.

  2. Love the picture

    As for building on Turanian Sotadic zone love poetry, I’m on board. But Pakistan is actually very well positioned right now with handsome son of Turan at helm.


    “However, while cleaning the bottom-left drawer of my husband’s side table, I found empty cigar cases and huge tubes of KY jelly. When I asked what they were for, Imran explained that the lubricant and the metal cases were used together. His ‘preferences’ became clear. My look of horror produced peals of laughter from my sexually liberated husband.”

    I always found the “alliance” of feminists with gay men and how umpteen girls in the West have gay male best friends absurd. At the Freud level these gay males are checking vigorously for the husbands/boyfriends of their female friends who unsuspectingly draw the gays close in to their family parties etc.

    The other day I was watching a really well made Bangladeshi film called Ghetuputro Komola, regarding a typical Turanian zamindar lording over the meek lambs of east Bengal. One of the traditions of the area’s peasant families is to groom their boys as dancers for the zamindar for him to keep him as a sodomized pet. The film shows how much this is detested by the Nawab’s wife and ultimately she plots and murders the little boy.
    The movie linked below with English subtitles

    1. Perfect comment Bharotshontan.

      Another day about how Sri Lanka was pedophile (mainly homosexual) destination in the 70’s and 80’s.

      Luckily no Zamindar types. Land reform; only 5o acres per family.

      Sorry could explain more. Hospital runs for SO.

      You play, you pay (one way or another).

  3. “September 15, 2018 at 12:57 am
    Of course gay rights is a modern Western phenomenon. However, I don’t see the need for “homosexuality in Muslim garb”. All civilized societies are moving towards giving sexual minorities the right to live their lives openly. Everyone should have equal rights. It’s really not that difficult.

    There are some things in which Western culture truly is superior.”

    LBGTQ had rights and respect in ancient cultures. But the way they viewed and understood these issues is different. Western culture draws very heavily from Egyptian (pyrimid), Sumerians and Arya culture. Much of what is called “Western” is code for them. Western civilization say 2600 to 4000 years ago might have been a lot more enlightened than historians now think.

    European enlightenment/classic liberalism was and is something to be proud of. Sadly western civilization has many challenges too.

    1. Total non-sequitor. Can we have one post where you don’t bring up Hinduism or “Arya”? Is that even possible for you? It has zero relation to this topic.

      Western developed countries are the ones that allow gay marriage and equal rights. In this regard, they are more civilized than many other countries.

  4. Last week, a certain anonymous individual, under the nick “anothergay”, with very low interpersonal skills but with high levels of frustration, asked BP owners to block my comments. He actually, with unhidden pride in his/her/trans squeaky voice and with a delicate twisting of his/her/trans fingers, asked for a privilege for my comments to be blocked only for him/her/trans.

    I don’t know how I deserved the hatred from such people who usually talk about love (with or without waving the flag). It is well known that my comments are related to the falsified European history, especially parts which are interlinked with SA history. Specifically, I often comment on Aryans invasion/migrations, asserting that Aryans were ancient Serbs what I supported by genetics (R1a1 originated in Balkan was the oldest) and hundreds of Serbian/Sanskrit identical words and Serbian toponyms in SA.

    I experienced earlier some negative comments from OIT proponents but it seems that in last year or so, AIT/AMT prevailed. The concrete cause was that some of specific Gujarati words which I took from ‘Google translate’ and which I found very similar to Serbian (based on their similarity with Sanskrit), he/trans/she found that they are not Gujarati. Obviously, that was not the real reason for such reaction. Maybe he experiences me as a neo-Aryan who invades/migrates to SA blogs and he/she/trans feels that should activate the whole of his/her/trans PBQRTDFG pride and openly, without any reserves, express such outburst without covering his/her/trans ass.

    1. Could it be that many people are really not interested in your theories about how the whole world was Serbian? You seem to spam every post on this blog whether or not it is related to the topic. In this you are similar to some other people who are obsessed with “Arya”.

      Some of us live in the reality-based community and are frustrated with conspiracy theories not supported by scholarly sources.

      1. First, I’ve never said that the whole world was Serbian. I only said that Serbs are indigenous European people. Do you think that my comments should be blocked because some people are not interested in my assertions? How do you know about this? I found in a couple occasions that you have very little knowledge even about your own country but I never thought that your comments should be blocked. You have never found any mistake in my comments. It is not true that I am spamming every post. I strictly write what is the topic and sometimes under Open thread. I do this once or twice a week. It seems that you have more time than anyone else on this blog, you are non-stop there, you have opinion just about anything and every day there are at least 10-15 of your comments. I would not be surprised if you are this undercover ‘anothergay’. I don’t know what the source of your frustration is. Maybe, the lack of competence in some areas or just simple religious rigidness.

  5. Milan, you are an intelligent interesting woke guy. Ignore the detractors. Would love to collaborate with you. Maybe Serbian Arya philosophy should be the eleventh Darshana of Sanathana Dharma.

    1. Milan,
      You have spammed this post. Serbia has nothing to do with LBGT rights in Pakistan and yet here you are. I don’t think your comments should be blocked, but I do wish you would stick to the topic.
      I am not “anotherguy”. Everything I have to say I can say under my own name.

      1. If you red my comment carefully you could see that I was referring to ‘another-gay’ because my impression was that his/her/trans proud outburst was a result of his/trans/her suppressed sexuality and here is a good place and time to let this pride blossom. As you can see I am also trying to be politically correct and include any potential gender he/trans/she could be inclined. It takes some additional space and time but we should recognise his/her/trans rights. At least, this is accustomed in my wider environment. I don’t know what is your proud preference (I respect whatever it is) but you definitely can ask Jaggu to give you some tips how to spend some quality time instead of soloselfindulging yourself and hanging day and night on this site.

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