Jet Lag: India, Pakistan, and the Theatre of the Air

Posted on Categories India, Military History, Open Thread, Pakistan, Politics, X.T.MTags , , , , , , , , , , ,

Since the commentariat can’t resist a good Indo-Pak exchangeβ€”especially when it involves fighter jetsβ€”here’s a fresh contribution to the theatre. Personally, I’m much more interested in Concord cafΓ©s and JD Vance’s selective memory, but one must feed the algorithmic gods. So here’s what S. Qureishi gleefully shared:

A day after Subramanian Swamy accepted 5 jets were down in a Hindi interview, Indian CDS Gen Chauhan accepts jet losses in the recent encounter to Bloomberg. What’s more he accepted that the Indian planes did not fly after May 6-7 and were grounded,

Take that as you will. Fog of war, political spin, or just belated candorβ€”either way, the skies are louder than the silence.

As an aside, I’ve always found Pakistani commentary on Indiaβ€”the civilizational motherland, however estrangedβ€”to be oddly fixated. It’s like staring into a mirror with the lights off.

Anywayβ€”comment away, and please play nice. After all, xperia2015 has author privileges and can selectively void what he likes.

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Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago

Even Christine Fair–Known for being pro-India and certainly no fan of Pakistan– has called the Indian media “bakwas” (nonsense)

“Do you think Pakistan will be deterred by what just happened?
No, not at all. The Pakistan army is an insurgent army – it can’t defeat India conventionally. And for that matter, India can’t defeat Pakistan in a short war because the forces along the IB [international border] and the LOC [Line of Control], are similarly poised.
India’s advantage can only kick in during a long war and that’s increasingly difficult because of nuclear weapons and so forth. So India can’t defeat Pakistan, Pakistan can’t defeat India. But Pakistan views Kashmir as part of this incomplete process of Partition and that Pakistan itself is not complete without Kashmir.

Because of the media?
Because the media was so bad, but also the Indian government directly participated in this fabrication of an F-16 shootdown. So, it’s not just the media, it was the Indian government, and specifically the Modi government. I can’t just take Indian pronouncements at face value, but what I can see is that the proof is in the pudding. You had a bunch of people engaging on both sides. We encouraged both sides to engage peacefully to resolve their outstanding issues peacefully.”

https://scroll.in/article/1082322/interview-indias-options-are-limited-but-military-strikes-are-symbolic-wont-deter-terror

As an aside, giving xperia the power to selectively void comments is hardly neutral. People are already free to be anti-Pakistan on this site. The country has been called “terroristan”. I have personally been accused of “taqqiya”. Somehow, I doubt the same type of anti-India discourse would make it through the censors.

Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  X.T.M

LOL, I learned from the last experience that I don’t want to deal with the level of hatred and personal comments from trolls.

I always am respectful to people until I’m no longer given respect. But people who troll me will be not be tolerated.

Last edited 16 days ago by X.T.M
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Terrorists and terrorist sympathizers should never be tolerated and should be exterminated with prejudice.

Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

X.T.M is this kind of rhetoric acceptable?

I am posting on here with my real name. I will not tolerate being called a “terrorist”.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Relax, Kabir.

No one called you a terrorist.

I just made a statement. Where is that you were called a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer?

Why are you getting offended?

Guilty much?

Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Don’t backtrack. I’m perfectly capable of understanding plain English.

You are a Hindutvadi troll.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Considering the English language capabilities of most Pakistanis (as exemplified by the cricket team and the viral sacrifice my life for Pakistan video) I find that claim dubious.

But anyways, there was no mention of you and it was a statement.

Any guilt on your part is due to terrorist sympathy.

I am a pork-eating beef-eating atheist.

You are the Islamist here, bro.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Ah now I’m an “Islamist”. You know nothing about me.

English is my native language. I was educated in the US. My parents went to elite schools in Pakistan where they were taught by British missionaries.

You probably come from a lower class background considering the way you debate.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Looks like Kabir’s PTSD from being in the west during the post 9/11 years kicked in. πŸ˜…

You’re safe in Lahore now, Kabir.

No one’s taking you to Guantanamo.

Last edited 16 days ago by Honey Singh
Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

LOL I’m an American citizen. Go screw yourself.

xperia2015
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

You realise X.T.M set up this post for exactly this sort of flame war. It is bizarre that you both oblige him and run to him for moderation.
I’m not clear why this is something everyone seems to be engaging in, X.T.M included.

Last edited 16 days ago by xperia2015
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  xperia2015

Crying for daddy to intervene when they are getting beaten up is a common Pakistani phenomenon as can be seen with them going crying to Donald Trump to stop the pounding India was giving the PAF bases.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

India went crying to America. Pakistan had just gotten started with our counter attack.

Hindu Hriday Samrat had to sell the stupid idiots in your country on the idea that “Operation Sindoor” is only “paused”.

You try breaking the ceasefire and see what we do to you.

Last edited 15 days ago by Kabir
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Lol.

“Pakistan had just gotten started with our counter attack” – lolololol

Operation Baniyan Chaddi achieved nothing while India was still pounding PAF bases after that. Bholari and squadron leader Usman were hit in the evening.

If this “imaginary” counterattack was successful, we’d see Pakistanis kanging on it, not on “jets downed” which happened 3 days back.

You can’t do ANYTHING.

You are a nothing people of a nothing country.

India pounded Pak across her length and breadth and she could do nothing to stop it nor retaliate.

IWT is still suspended and India is building projects while Pak watches impotently.

All this fake bluster on the internet means nothing.

I know how meek you were in front of TSA hahaha

Last edited 15 days ago by Honey Singh
Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

It’ll take you twenty years to stop the water flow to Pakistan. Our nuclear doctrine makes it clear any threat to the waters will bring the nuclear bombs into play.

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

I don’t think nukes will come into play, we have enough capability to destroy any structures India builds to steal our water.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Lol. India is already building stuff while Pakistanis are debating it on the internet.

Pakistan has no capability to do anything. No military target was hit on the Indian side. Operation Baniyan Chaddi failed.

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Pakistan has no capability to do anything.

That’s very rich of you to say that after Pakistan shot Indian planes down 200 km inside Indian territory.

You post like a 13 year old. Just quit spamming

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Again deflecting and ignoring as is your style.

I clearly stated Operation Baniyan Chaddi where Pakistan could not even penetrate Indian Air Defenses.

India hit terrorist camps and PAF bases inside Pak on two SEPARATE days with impunity while Pak couldn’t retaliate.

And the only reason Pak shot planes on 7th was mentioned in the Bloomberg video that you like so much but conveniently failed to mention. On the 7th the Indian planes simply did not have A2A missiles as there was no interest in engaging Pakistan militarily.

Without trolling or deflecting or ignoring (as is your style), answer this simple question for me –

If PAF were so good, why were no jets downed on the 10th when India targeted far more important sites in the PAF bases compared to the mosques on the 7th, including in the daylight (Bholari was brought down in the evening)?

These base hits have been verified by the Pakistani establishment itself as well as international media. The nature/number of casualties might be disputed but not the fact that the hits happened as well as that there were casualties in these strikes (DGISPR themselves accepted loss of 5/6 PAF personnel).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/05/14/india-pakistan-strikes-conflict-damage/

The reason is clearly given in that Bloomberg video you love so much as well but choose to ignore.

On the 10th IAF did SEAD/DEAD and carried A2A missiles and thus could hit the PAF bases with impunity while Pakistan could neither take down those jets nor hit military targets in India.

You are the 13 year old who is trolling and spamming here, Qureshi.

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

why were no jets downed on the 10th

Because none were flying 🀣🀣

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Hahaha another Pakistani cope.

How the hell do you think all the PAF bases were downed on the 10th?

Have you already retconned Squadron Leader Usman Yousuf and the other PAF personnel’s deaths as due to the hanger falling because of an earthquake?

Typical 🀣🀣

BTW that Bloomberg video you were kanging on which mentioned the “jets down” mentions this fact.

But then again I had mentioned it and you being you conveniently ignored it again.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

No one has interest in diverting water. India wants to build dams for its own people which they are doing while Pak is watching helplessly.

And considering the massive failure of Pak to hit any thing of significance during Operation Baniyan, I am pretty sure those nukes won’t do a thing.

Plus India has better nukes with second strike capabilities. And India hit Pakistan along her length and breadth so they can do the same again but this time with nukes (And this time the navy didn’t even come into play).

You can kang here but reality is India will keep building stuff and eventually Pak will agree to a watered down newer IWT 4-5 years in the future.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Kabir doesn’t realize that Pakistan’s nukes are as threatening as their fast bowlers – they aren’t.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  X.T.M

It’s not like the nukes are in my control lol.

Lt. General Kidwai made it clear many years ago in writing that any attempt to turn off Pakistan’s waters is a nuclear red line. This is accepted doctrine.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Obviously, I’m not advocating nuclear war. No one rational should want that.

Pointing out what Pakistan’s nuclear doctrine is not the same as advocating nuclear war. Turning off the water is a clear redline as is an existential threat to the country.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  xperia2015

Like I said, I remain respectful when treated with respect but I will not tolerate being personally attacked.

X.T.M needs to moderate the Indian trolls more carefully. Otherwise this is not a neutral website but a forum to attack Pakistanis.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Maybe increase internet penetration and literacy rates so there will be more of your ilk on forums?

Right now most of your compatriots are riding 70cc bikes (stopped selling in India in the early 90s) in salwars.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

I know your family is probably too poor, but mine has always had chauffeur driven vehicles.

Now go back to your jhonpri while I sit in my mansion.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Aah, found the 70cc bike rider.

No one lives in mansions boasts about living in mansions.

You are a Pakistani. You guys are POORER than Indians and getting poorer. India has the 3rd most number of billionaires in the world. Pakistan has ZERO.

The only reason you want better relations with India is so that your lot can go do manual labour in India and not in the distant middle east.

“But no I am an American boohoo” – Indian Americans are 8x the number of Pakistani Americans, way richer and successful and are present in the top echelons of American society while their Pakistani compatriots are rotting in Guantanamo.

Here, take 100 INR. It’s around 400 PKR. You can buy atta for the month.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

I voided this comment

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Honestly I would rather you just post things that appeal to you (even if low engagement) than these which are designed for fights.

Pakistan is a failed state. Let it fester in its failure. Don’t give them engagement.

If you want to focus on non Indian countries from the subcontinent, maybe shine a light on the 2nd biggest economy of the region, Bangladesh?

Much more brighter future too.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Aah, that explains the prickliness.

Post 9/11 you were a kid. All the white kids became hostile and called you a “terrorist”.

You need therapy, Kabir although I’m not sure they have that in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

They’ll prolly tell you to pray 5 times a day.

xperia2015
16 days ago

Just to clear the air a little.

  1. Under the current privileges I can only edit comments on an article I post and not any others.
  2. My interest is not in moderating (I believe in almost no censorship), contributing the article was quite enjoyable.
  3. As to any escalation in words and rhetoric from my side, purely proportional and commensurate.
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  xperia2015

Point no 3 is basically the Indian doctrine during Operation Sindoor.

But Pakistanis just don’t like getting it back lol.

Nivedita
Nivedita
16 days ago

I really think people are fixated on the wrong things. Losses are expected in combat. The Indian Govt and the IAF do not wish to comment upon the number for reasons best known to them. Everything else is speculation. Satellite images don’t lie as far as which side decisively struck the other.

As we have seen on multiple threads so far, nothing constructive seems to come out of these tu tu main main type verbal jousting.

I trust the Indian armed forces more than a Trump or a Swamy both of whom are known to shoot their mouths off.πŸ˜„

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Nivedita

Just cope.

The videos of the strikes on the terrorist hideouts and the PAF bases with the Pakistani awaam screaming “Ya Allah Madad” or “Ya Allah Khair” in terror have really shaken the Pakistani populace.

Hence all these “claims” of “10 Rafales, 20 UFOs” down.

Nivedita
Nivedita
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

True true, hilarious addition of the 20 UFO’s lol 🀣

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago

Untrue. The strikes that happened on the PAF bases/hangars/airports on the 10th were all done by air to surface missiles from airplanes.

The hits on the terrorist hideouts on the 7th and on the PAF bases on the 10th have video evidence shot by many of the Pak awaam as they scream “Ya Allah Madad”, “Ya Allah Khair” etc.

Pakistan’s “claims” all rest on random interviews.

That’s why the desperate attempt to fake evidence as seen on social media where hits on Syria and Ukraine are being attempted to pass off as Operation Chadi Baniyan.

Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Pakistanis will never trust the Indian media and Indians will never trust the Pakistani media. Both sides are selling “victory” to their own people.

However, the international media is not convinced. This “war” ended in a stalemate. Christine Fair is no friend of Pakistan and even she has called Indian claims “bakwas”.

Bottom line is Pakistan is not deterred. We are already planning for the next round.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

“Christine Fair” is not god.

The satellite images, the videos shot by Pakistanis documenting the blasts, the funerals whose images/videos are all over social media are not “claims” but visible proof. Even Pak have admitted the losses.

No such proof exists for Pakistani “claims”.

Pakistan can plan for the next round like they do in cricket but there is a difference between ability and desire.

If Pakistanis actually had the ability you are claiming, the BLA and TTP wouldn’t be rampant in more than half the country.

Like I have said before, the Quetta and Peshawar teams in the PSL have played ZERO matches in Quetta and Peshawar EVER.

Last edited 16 days ago by Honey Singh
Kabir
Kabir
16 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Christine Fair is not god. But she’s on your side. You cannot accuse her of pro-Pak bias.

You can continue believing Indian propaganda. The world is not convinced.

Your country keeps denying America forced you into a ceasefire. President Trump contradicts you every single day.

Don’t mess with Pakistan. We are ready for your next attack. All you do is make the Field Marshal stronger.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

No random white person is on “our” side.

And like I said – The satellite images, the videos shot by Pakistanis documenting the blasts, the funerals whose images/videos are all over social media are not β€œclaims” but visible proof.

This is not propaganda and no one needs convincing.

You are saying that Squadron Leader Usman Yousuf (not just a pilot but a squadron leader) died in Bholari because his hangar collapsed due to an earthquake?

Pakistanis overestimate themselves too much. Your economy is smaller than the likes of Bangladesh, Romania, Colombia etc.

India has absolutely no interest in “attacking” or even associating with Pakistan. Pakistanis have a lower HDI than Bihar. That means Pakistanis are basically “servant/labour” class in the eyes of most Indians.

You go establish your “Riasat-e-Pudina”. We don’t give an f.

Last edited 16 days ago by Honey Singh
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Squadron Leader Usman Yousuf’s dead body is not “propaganda”.

As are the funerals of other PAF personnel killed in the air strikes on the 10th and the terrorists killed on the 7th.

But you do you, brother.

Enjoy “Riasat-e-Pudina”.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

“Terrorists” according to Indians are women and children according to Pakistan. Why should we trust a single word that comes out your dirty mouths?

For the last time, I hate Imran Khan and his “Riasat-e-Madina” project. My leader is Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

“Women and children” whose funerals are attended by UN designated terrorists lol.

And Usman was a woman or a child?

Doesn’t matter who you support. All of your ilk is filth. There is a reason the name of your country is a slur in the UK.

Kabir
Kabir
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

I voided this comment – everyone be calm now.. otherwise I’ll just void

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  Kabir

Naah, I am not an illegal Indian immigrant.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
16 days ago
Last edited 16 days ago by Honey Singh
amrik
amrik
16 days ago

All this talk of planes is a good way of distracting from the elephant in the room, Pakistan failed to attack anything of significance in India whilst India hammered their military bases.

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  amrik

Yup. If Pakistan had really “won” after “downing jets” which happened on day 1, why did they not de-escalate and claim victory.

They tried drones and then missiles on the next 3 days and then had PAF bases blown apart losing PAF personnel including a squadron leader.

Operation Baniyan Chaddi was just to give a face saver before going to Trump to de-escalate.

If Operation Baniyan Chaddi had done any damage we would have evidence of it by now but even now all the Pakistani kanging is on the jets which if it had happened, happened on the first day.

Illiterotard
Illiterotard
15 days ago

It looks like the Indian body politic needs to get its story straight. In the event that the numerous defense deals actually are for that intended goal, then why doesn’t the Indian defense establishment just stick with activities that keep Indian voters happy? Lest we forget the debacle that was the Kargil offensive.

brown
brown
15 days ago

…. as a wise old guy said, ” generals should be seen and not heard….”. they are not used to be questioned so it is difficult.

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago

You can bring the horse to the water, you cannot make it drink that water though.

Indians continue to deny and obfuscate.The cope on X, reddit & IG is just insane and it has provided me with a lot of comedic theater over the last few days.

“We didn’t lose any jets”

“Ok we may have lost some, but it’s just 1 and losses are part of combat”

“Losing planes is inconsequential for a big economy like ours, what matters more is that all pilots are safe”

“Ok all female pilots are safe”

“Ok but we destroyed terrorists and they couldnt even do anything to us haha”

____

As truth starts trickling out, Indians are beginning to realize that they have been lied to by their government, and as they realize, the cope changes and it provides comedy.

The entire thing was orchestrated to make BJP look good, and the Indian Generals always knew they don’t have the capability to really do much damage to Pakistan short of all out war. As Najam Sethi predicted 2 weeks ago that Modi is in trouble, it’s obvious that he was right.

The Indian population believes they completely destroyed 11 PAF airbases, targeted nuclear assets and caused a nuclear leak, yet they don’t understand how Pakistanis are celebrating victory, why the international media is supporting Pakistan’s claims, why Shahbaz is doing a victory lap visiting different countries, meeting world leaders with a big grin, while Modi sulks at home..

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

The cope is being done by Pakistanis which is so funny. Even now they are photoshopping images from Ukraine/Syria to pass off as evidence of Operation Baniyan Chaddi having achieved something.

Their were no female pilots. It is Pakistanis who invented some Shivani Singh falling in Pak. And there have been no pilots lost. Pakistan lost a squadron leader, whose funeral photos and videos are plastered all over the news (lots of funny memes on him by Indian social media).

11 PAF airbases is verified news, verified by international media such as WaPo and NYT and admitted by Pakistanis themselves. There are videos of Pakistanis screaming “Ya Allah Madad” in terror.

Again, Pakistanis overestimate themselves. Shehbaz has gone nowhere.

Pakistan is no important country that people really care. It has a smaller economy than the likes of Bangladesh, Colombia, Romania etc and is not even a member of bodies like FATF, G20 etc which India is a member of along with the “countries that matter”.

That is the real source of comedy where Pak patriots like Qureishi and Kabira think their tiny failed state is of some consequence. You guys have a worse passport than freaking Yemen lol.

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Honey Singh

Adding this to the list of copes, that will morph into something else, as more turth bombs are dropped. πŸ˜€

Last edited 15 days ago by S Qureishi
Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Sure man you do you.

Next time Usman and the entire PAF personnel that were killed will be retconned into being killed by an earthquake.

I mean Pakistan were “winning” 1971 until the day they lost.

Nivedita
Nivedita
15 days ago

I’m more interested in the drone warfare technology and it’s evolution. Just saw how Ukraine used FPV drones ( not sure what these are) to attack targets in Russia 4000 km away. Anyone who can contribute a piece on this?

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Nivedita

They didnt do it from Ukraine, those drones seem to have been smuggled in a truck and launched from near the airbase.

This is going to be an alternative method in the future for attacking air assets

Last edited 15 days ago by S Qureishi
Nivedita
Nivedita
15 days ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Interesting. How did these trucks get through undetected then?

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
15 days ago
Reply to  Nivedita

Well that’s the question, very likely this is an operation by Ukranian operatives inside Russia

Honey Singh
Honey Singh
15 days ago

I voided this comment

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