Kabir has emailed in stating categorically, that the toxicity is beginning to affect his health.
The Admin team *must* take that seriously.
Accordingly the online Safety Protocol has been reactivated.
There will be no interactions between:
OM-3, RNJ, KK-BB, Indo and Kabir.
We request that unnecessary responses are avoided. All replies to each other will be deleted immediately.
Kabir’s ugly comments on the Open Season thread notwithstanding, this is now a matter of health; that is seriously concerning and an overriding factor in reactivating the precedent.
The BP email is maintained by both the admins so any issues (can be reported directly and privately).
Thank you to everyone for understanding.

Thank you very much Agni.
I wanted to also share this very good article for the Commentariat to read:
“Girls going to schools would be the real revolution in Afghanistan”
When Sabori’s daughter and other girls in his extended family were barred from going to school, through his old ALO contacts, he reached out to the underground schools run by the radical women’s organisation known as RAWA – the Revolutionary Association for the Women of Afghanistan (Jamiat-e-Inqlabi Zanan-e-Afghanistan), unofficially affiliated with the ALO.
The founder of RAWA, known simply as Meena, and her spouse, the ALO founder, Faiz Ahmed, were both assassinated in the late 1980s in Pakistan’s refugee camps.
Sabori’s daughter, Jamila (named after Algerian freedom fighter Djamila Bouhired), his nieces and a stepsister, undertook a 24-hour train journey to reach an underground school in Quetta where they were lodged with about 80 other children.
Locked inside, they were rarely able to see the sunlight. Even going to the rooftop was forbidden as was any conversation with the neighbours. They had to stay quiet for fear of attracting neighbours’ attention.
Additionally, all these girls, and the women of RAWA, had to change their names multiple times as a security measure.
This was the price they paid for their education.
Swara Bhaskar’s deplorable remarks victim-blaming on Jauhar, make me feel like writing a longform response. Maybe later tonight if time permits.
Honestly, I don’t think Swara’s remarks are worth wasting time on. If you feel that itch go on ahead but I don’t think it really even needs a reply.
yeah makes sense. But its a classic example of Leli overreach….
Otoh you could write on jauhar and saka. Both women and men chose death over dishonour, via different means.
Thank you for your understanding.
this is fine we are prioritising your health but going forward watch what you say.
the hateful things you said in the Open Season Thread shows Hinduphobia, Dravidianphobia, racism, classism, elitism, colourism and regionalism.
these were and are unacceptable comments on this Blog and your apology was not sufficient. However, as admins, we are showing immense consideration to your context despite your repeated claims of bias.
Furthermore no one on the blog has repeated hateful comments about a race or people as you have (there were individual hateful comments). it is worth reflecting on that you should probably never write on India or Bharat since that is triggering.
I will avoid.
However, since its a health concern, maybe a temporary suspension of interaction on BP for the affected party is the optimal way to go about it?
Please don’t misinterpret this as me being callous, but there is a long track record of weaponizing all sorts of issues and try to muzzle and silence opinions and perspectives under that guise.
It has happened too many times where an offensive or insulting opinion is belted out by the affected party and then to hide from criticism the Protocol is used as a shield from where to fire towards other commentators.
Admin will ensure that this does not happen. Please understand that we are obligated to take any concern by any commentator seriously, especially in the wake of the Jason Arday case.
+100
to suspend someone who’s health is being affected by the interactions is morally and ethically wrong.
The Online Safety Protocol lapsed after the Gender Protocol.
Even if Kabir (or any other commentator) says egregious things; it is easier to simply email in and it can be edited but this became a war-zone.
I was only recommending a self-imposed suspension, not by the admins.
I ….recognize that its a difficult needle to thread for the admins.
Just as Kabir is no friend of India, you are no friend of Kabir’s 🙂
I harbor no personal animosity towards him. Sincerely. Yes, I will counter and challenge his slanted perspective however.
I think its…more than a bit unfair to read this into me – especially given that I have been at lopsided receiving end of gratuitous repeated ad hominem attacks from him, and never have I crossed any line.
The Online Safety Protocol also means u guys shouldn’t really be referring to each other as well.
It’s about using BP in parallel.
If people genuinely have a problem with each other; they can email, get in touch etc.
https://x.com/RShivshankar/status/2094767898950836475?s=20
Century old Temple collapses in Pakistan.
“Collapses” sounds like BBC level editorializing?
Mods, this is your site. Police it how you wish. Both of you have had extensive experience with K. We are merely users. 🙏
My only request is that ONLY mods police the site. Any attempts by K to police the site or respond to any of our comments should be considered weaponisation of the health and safety protocol for the purposes of censorship.
Neither side can reply to each other or ideally even refer to each other.
There was some sub-tweeting going on the last time we had it; so one side would be linking or replying to the other..
But the site evolves; the Precedent had lapsed because of the controversy engendered by the Gender Protocol (which demands courtesy and chivalry from the Male Commentariat to the Female Commentariat).
Our battle for High Signal comments and being a broad Church is winning; virtually all the credit goes to Agni, who has been a very successful Admin of the Site 🙏🪬🌟
Three Cheers to her.
Celebrate after the policy has proven successful. Personally I feel this is a somewhat familiar pattern on this site.
I’m quite curious as to how this will work. As has been well established, inferences can easily be drawn without intent.
I do hear you. What Admin is attempting here is to prioritize topic discussion over inflamed arguments.
As RNJ frequently says, debate the topic not the individual. That’s the motto.
It has been a tricky situation to navigate no doubt, but let us see how this goes. Neither XTM nor I think its a good idea to censor ideas or comments. But we also have to manage the site in a way that is first and foremost respectful of the space and of all the readers + commentators.
Thank you for the kind words XTM, but I do believe it has been a joint effort 🙂
Many of the commentators remind me of the gau rakshaks which run amuck here in the North
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.
I would say you remind me of a Dhimagi Naxal, but for the obvious invalidation of the prefix.
Welcome to BP, AS Lakhnawi.
This would be an interesting discussion. How much overlap is there between people who lean towards hindu nationalist positions, or at least provide apologia for them in an online forum like this, and support for stringent cattle protection laws. We might even find that some are beef enjoyers, but the discussion would be revealing. Maybe some of the TNT proponents enjoy a cocktail too, who knows?
“Maybe some of the TNT proponents enjoy a cocktail too”–
I’ve said this before but TNT is not primarily a religious ideology but a nationalist one. It’s the basis of Pakistani nationhood.
The Quaid himself drank alcohol so there is no inherent connection between TNT and conservative Islamic positions.
They almost certainly do. The Muslim & Pakistani elite are invariably very heavy drinkers (in fact it’s a class marker).
Indeed, I know many in that mold. On a policy level would they support lifting the current restrictions on alcohol (I know its not banned for everyone). How many the commentariat would support liberalizing cattle slaughter laws in northern Indian states? Why or why not? My intuition is that this isn’t a particularly important issue here, and at best we may see people critiquing the media bias in the way gau rakshaks are covered.
The gau Rakshaks themselves are not ashamed of their activities and are sanguine about how much many other things but the protection of the cow motivates them, the media is in many cases either justifying them or displaying them as they are.
I think I might end up writing a small post in defense of gau rakshaks. It seems to me they are pointlessly demonized to cloak worse groups.
You can write what you want, no need to inform me as if I would care if someone advocates on behalf of gau rakshaks.
Those guys dont live rent free in my head.
If you don’t care why do you comment on them? Perhaps remove yourself from any discussion of that topic then.
I dont care for those who advocate on their behalf.
I was merely pointing out that the media has either been very supportive of them or let them describe themselves as they are and the gau Rakshaks dont care if some people disapprove of their activities, why are you getting so agitated?
I mean this is the Online safety protocol thread. It is only natural for him to be worried about your mental health. As you seem to be about his.
And I am for both of you. And you both can be about me.
Let us join hands and dance about, we three.
Touchy feely sensitive mode activated.
//I mean this is the Online safety protocol thread. It is only natural for him to be worried about your mental health. As you seem to be about his.//
He has a weird way of showing concern for my mental health.
I’m enjoying this conversation lol
Droll
It’s fine to have strong opinions on any subject however it isn’t fine to do so while deliberately ignoring arguments from another side. I’m only pointing out that while the anti-gau rakshak argument gets a lot of headspace in online circles it barely gets any real arguments for it being articulated. As for being agitated I don’t really think emotionally on this subject, I am a Savarkarite on this issue its more of a law and order problem than a religious issue.
What strong anti gau Rakshak opinion did I express?
Ok.. I apologise for this.
Its cool man. Just try not to get too emotional on issues.
Also alcohol isn’t directly comparable to cow slaughter. In principle, the question is whether a religion’s diktats to its followers should be imposed on those outside the fold. A better example would be Pakistanis (and Muslims in general) not going off the rails whenever someone makes a pictorial representation of Mohammed etc.
How much overlap is there between people who lean towards hindu nationalist positions, or at least provide apologia for them in an online forum like this, and support for stringent cattle protection laws.
Would be a pointless exercise because of the same reasons that Shahab Ahmed’s book is being criticized on another post. Equating Hinduism or Hindu Nationalism to cow protection is highly reductive albeit one in which the strongest claimants of leadership to the movement seem to have hitched their wagons. Personally speaking, I come from a community where cows are important across cultural, religious, economic and social axes – dairy farming was and to a large extent continues to be important to Jats in West UP and Haryana. The cow is practically a family member, no different from how seriously people in the West take their dogs/cats. It also holds significant economic value with prices running up in to several thousands to upwards of a lakhs in open markets. In Western UP, especially in areas where the demographics are on a knife-edge, this can lead to situations where economic and religious paradigms overlap for both communities. I saw this first hand as a 5 year old when the house of one of my uncles was raided by kasais from a nearby village and their cattle stolen. Our extended family went into even more of a siege mentality and we lost one of our cousins who, in an ill-advised and emotionally charged environment, decided to acquire a handmade pistol that predictably backfired. In a cruel irony, his source for the pistol was a Shia Muslim friend.
Experiencing that left a deep scar on my mindset, and it took a lot of introspection to reach my current view: a more Savarkarite perspective. While I am not in favor of a beef ban or the resulting vigilantism, the Muslim community should also be sensitive to broader Hindu feelings and avoid provocative slaughter practices, which history shows have often triggered religious violence. Article 48 of the Constitution makes it very clear that the our drafting assembly understood and appreciated this.
The issue is further muddied by sensationalist journalism from both sides of the aisle. I hold the left particularly culpable for dismissing how deeply sensitive this matter is to certain communities, often masking personal attacks as serious analysis.
P.S.: I came across a surprisingly nuanced, solution-oriented journal article by four Pakistani authors (link) – something I can never expect from an ideologically blinded left-liberal intelligentsia. While it still relies on some tropes, it urges both communities to address the issue together. I believe cooperation is possible, even if it is unlikely under our toxically competitive democratic politics. Comparisons with Pakistan Nationalists are a non-starter because the question of Islamic supremacy has been settled and there is no threat or challenge to that in the foreseeable future so the majority doesn’t feel insecure in its cultural expressions. India, on the other hand, has a majority community that still suffers from siege mentality for very understandable reasons.
@NdG
Appreciate sharing your personal background regarding this. I had commented several months ago on a similar instance of my relatives farm getting raided just a few days before Bakrid. I’d think a left-liberal would find your view reasonable, which is why I’d thought it would be interesting to share, because the centre-right and nationalists among the commentariat were characterized a certain way , and its worth taking a moment to see that its a lot more nuanced.
One of my comments (which was in response to Q) was deleted.
Technically this comment did not break the “ceasefires” as I am allowed to reply to Q.
The objection was unnecessary litigation.
I just made the very benign point that rather then entering into an endless back and forth about the “Aryan invasion” (a topic about which I am not emotional either way) we can simply refer back to BP’s own archives since this topic has been discussed many many times.
Yes I agree it was not offensive and a simply factual comment but Indo is right; the Online Safety Precedent must also work in favour of both you and your counterparts.
Just as you have the right not to have them in your conversations, they have a right that you are not in their conversations either.
Fair is fair.
Please clarify whether I am allowed to reply to Q.
The way this precedent worked before is that the parties concerned couldn’t reply to each other or mention each other. That made sense.
In the end, this particular comment being deleted is not that important.
I object to litigating this precedent in a way that goes against its spirit.
“New York mayor Zohran Mamdani is banning AI in schools until 9th grade”
https://images.dawn.com/news/1195769/new-york-mayor-zohran-mamdani-is-banning-ai-in-schools-until-9th-grade
It’s a good move imo. These days even a street cat can claim to be an AI expert 🙄 judging by how many “learn AI in “x” days / months” courses are currently in circulation.
AI dumbs down our brains.
Certainly, it’s not something that should be used by people whose brains are still in the process of development.
Even when adults use it, there are issues such as the fact that AI makes facts up, cites references that don’t exist etc.
There are things that it is useful for of course.
Agree completely. The frontal lobe which is responsible for critical thinking, reasoning etc only develops by the mid-20’s.
As is, exposure to smart phones and other devices will result in cognitive impairment of children, not to mention a higher prevalence of myopia and degeneration of the cervical spine. This is just common sense, but unless planned longitudinal studies are published in Nature or any other top tier journal, people will continue to question it!
I think TV does that as well?
To an extent.
Many people trace the decline in reading to the smartphone. James Marriott (who has an excellent Substack) has a new book out called “The New Dark Ages: The Death of Reading and the Dawn of the Post-Literate Society”.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/829140/the-new-dark-ages-by-james-marriott/
I’m glad that smartphones didn’t exist when I was growing up and I was raised to engage with great works of English Literature.
As kids, we used to read “The New York Times” and “The New Yorker”. Nowadays, kids are playing with their phones.
The dopamine rush. Unhealthy.
Have you read Beverly Clearly’s Otis Spofford?
I haven’t heard of that one though I did read her books about Ramona.
“American feminist activist Gloria Steinem dies at age 92”
https://images.dawn.com/news/1195777/american-feminist-activist-gloria-steinem-dies-at-age-92
Ohh! Another icon like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. RIP.
“Why is Raja Ravi Varma’s Art so valuable today?”
By Noor Anand Chawla
https://daily.jstor.org/why-is-raja-ravi-varmas-art-so-valuable-today/
Since the Aryan invasion/migration is being discussed again, it may be instructive to read what Omar has written on this:
https://www.brownpundits.com/2017/06/29/aryan-migration-and-its-discontents/
@Agni – my response to girmit seems to have gone to spam.