This is a continuation of a series:
- Our existence is an offense to moderate Muslims!
- Why do English nonmuslims treat English muslims so badly?
- Why nonmuslims treat muslims so badly?
- Why do nonmulims mistreat muslims so much?
- Post Modernism (later part of this article only)
Please see from 1 hour, 3 minutes in. Nonmuslims treat atheist muslims horrendously; calling them Islamaphobes, racist, sectarian, bigoted, xenophobic, angry, intolerant, emotional. Atheist muslims are also accused by nonmuslims of generalizing their anecdotal experience and not knowing Islam–even if they have heavily studied the Koran, six Hadiths, Sura, Islamic jurisprudence and Islamic theology. Almost always the nonmuslims attacking atheist muslims know almost nothing about Islam.
Stephanie Tessier–a muslim who started becoming atheist circa 2009–was treated worse by nonmuslims in Canada than by liberal Canadian muslims. This appears to be a common experience. Obviously atheist muslims are attacked as apostates by Islamists and conservative orthodox muslims. Apostates are often given capital punishment under most interpretations of Sharia; and are killed around the world on a daily basis. Reform, liberal Sunnis, twelvers, sixers, fivers, Sufi Sunnis, Ahmedis are similarly often killed as apostates. Perhaps for this reason while liberal Sunnis and minority muslims might not agree with atheism; they understand the suffering and death threats that atheist muslims live under and are more empathetic to atheist muslims than nonmuslims.
Stephanie Tessier now calls herself an ex-muslim. She extensively studied the Koran, Hadiths, Sura and muslim theologians to the point that she was regarded as a subject matter expert by her extended family, friends and mosque congregation. She had a crisis of faith as she tried and failed to explain away Koranic verses allowing muslim men to buy and use female sexual slaves against the will of their female slaves. She also tried and failed to explain away Koranic verses on homosexuality. When she was beginning her crisis of faith and began flirting with some atheist ideas in 2009; she was tricked by her husband to travel to Libya and her two daughters were taken away from her. Her loving good husband wanted to make sure the two daughters didn’t go to hell because they were raised by an atheist. He said it was far better that the two daughters were raped and murdered in Libya versus fall into eternal damnation. Under Shariah woman have almost no rights to children over the age of five or six in the event of a disagreement with her husband. Her gradual conversion to being a rationalist muslim with humanist, agnostic or atheistic leanings in 2009 cost Stephanie immensely.
My personal view is that atheism has almost nothing to do with how religious and spiritual someone is. An atheist person can be very religious and spiritual. And virtue signaling “very religious” fake can be very irreligious, nonspiritual, nonvirtuous and have a dry heart. Treating all atheist with the deepest of respect, reverence and love enhances religion and spirituality.
17 thoughts on “Why do nonmuslims treat atheist muslims so badly?”
Don’t treat them badly. They are just confused by the term. surely u agree “atheist muslim” is a bit of a mindfuck, don’t u?
Atheist muslim is a contradiction in terms. An atheist is someone who denies the existence of god while a Muslim is someone who believes in Allah and in the final prophet ( peace be upon him).
It is possible for someone to be an atheist of a Muslim background. But by virtue of his/her lack of belief this person is no longer Muslim. Islam is a religion not a race.
i agree with you. but people have called me an ‘atheist muslim.’ two groups come to mind
1) white liberals.
2) people from hindu and jewish backgrounds.
i’ll leave the commentary to you as to why this might be….
Perhaps they are treating Islam as a race rather than as a religion.
In Judaism, one is Jewish if one’s mother is Jewish. If you look at it from the descent point of view, it is possible to be Jewish without actually believing in god. From the religious point of view, it is not.
Perhaps the people who call you an “atheist Muslim” are just focusing on the fact that you come from (I’m assuming) a family of practicing Muslims. As far as Islamic law is concerned, if you cannot sincerely affirm the kalima, you are not a Muslim. Of course, only Allah knows what is truly in anyone’s heart so best leave such judgements to the all mighty. You can self-identify however you like.
Perhaps they are treating Islam as a race rather than as a religion.
i think this is it.
As far as Islamic law is concerned, if you cannot sincerely affirm the kalima, you are not a Muslim.
well, there is also the custom that you are muslim if your father is a muslim. i don’t identify as a muslim and i’m atheist. so i don’t care about this. but multiple muslims have brought this issue up (often they are relatively secular and marginally religious themselves).
also, there are a small class of atheists who are from muslim backgrounds and highly embedded in the muslim community culturally. these people are a different category from me, as i don’t have any contact with the muslim community on a collective level (my parents are muslim and i have some muslim friends).
Yes, the belief is that any child of a Muslim father is automatically Muslim.
You don’t have to care about this but most Muslims will believe that you have actively renounced the true faith. And then you know what follows from that.
Does every muslim have the right to publicly leave their faith of their own free will without threat of violence? Islam should not be the only religion in the world with this challenge.
Technically no. Those who are born of a Muslim father but choose to leave Islam are declared apostates and are “wajib ul qatal”, liable to be killed. That is the orthodox interpretation.
Obviously, most normal people would not enforce this edict. But there is a reason that ” atheist Muslims” in Muslim countries stay quiet about their (lack of) belief. If you live in a western country with protections of western laws, you can be freer. Though crazy terrorists are everywhere these days.
The current interior minister of Pakistan had an attempt on his life made Sunday night, supposedly because something he said offended someone’s religious views. If this can happen to a government official, what safety is there for the common person?
Leave me out of ‘Non Muslims’ who don’t recognize atheist Muslims
From an atheist Hindu
Leftist /Liberal treatment of feminist or atheists from Muslim countries is shameful beyond words. The state governments of West Bengal , for long an alleged bastion of Atheism, Feminism, anti-religion and what have you refused to let Taslima Nasreen stay in Kolkatta .
That way even Taliban have principle to which they stick to – Taliban in Afghanistan refused to let go Bin Laden even under direst of threats from the US smarting after 11/9 as Bin Laden was their guest and no force on earth can ask them or force them whom they can or cannot entertain. If only the Afghan Taliban had handed over Bin Laden to the US , the US would not have started Afghan War in 2003 to overthrow taliban, – a war which is still going on.
Even Taliban have some izzat which leftists quietly dump when it is needed most.
Stephanie Tessier calls herself an ex-muslim. She was tricked by her husband to travel to Libya and her two daughters were taken away from her. Her loving husband wanted to make sure the two daughters didn’t go to hell because they were raised by an atheist. He said it was far better that the two daughters were raped and murdered in Libya versus fall into eternal damnation.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan, I don’t understand why post modernists hate muslim atheists, LBGTQ, femnists so much. It isn’t just them though. See this:
But then Sarah Palin might be partly post modernist too.
The Taliban were directly complicit in many terrorist attacks all over the world. In 1998 Osama Bin Laden was the Sheikh and supreme commander of the International Islamic Front (Lashkar e Taiba, Jaish e Mohammed, Siphah e Sahaba/Lashkar e Jhanvi, HeT, Al Qaeda and many other global terrorist groups). Osama Bin Laden fled to Afghanistan in 1998 and the Taliban intentionally protected and aided the International Islamic Front; despite repeated pleas from Iran, India, Russia, China, Europe, Turkey, US, Stans, UN. Osama Bin Laden and his international troops fought the Northern Alliance on behalf of the Taliban. The Taliban could never turn in their strategic asset without permission. It is unfair to blame this entirely on the Taliban. Did the Pakistani Army give the Taliban permission to hand over Osama Bin Laden 1998-2001. I think the answer is no.
The Taliban is almost completely dependent on Pakistani Army Deep State GHQ funding, equipment, combat enablers (command and control, trainers, logistics, embedded advisers).
Afghanistan still has many communists, leftists and liberals. They retain ties to Russia in many cases. In Afghanistan these are the the most anti Taliban Afghans; many serving in the Afghan National Army and National Security Directorate (Afghan CIA). And the global post modernists hate them for it.
The Afghan war started in the 1970s and has been continuously waged ever since. The only relative peace Afghanistan has known was post 9/11/2001 when the war was suppressed for a few years. After the international community announced they were leaving in 2009, the Pakistani Army decided to surge the Taliban and tried to push back the ANA (Afghan National Army) and GIRoA (Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan). Afghanistan has been in a stalemate ever since. Albeit the pace of fighting has accelerated in recent years. Over the past four years the ANSF have suffered about 9,000 killed in action per year. Or about 36,000 total.
“V.C.Vijayaraghavan, I don’t understand why post modernists hate muslim atheists, LBGTQ, femnists so much.”
The reason is simple- short term electoral politics and political opportunism, just like India. Giving space to Atheists or feminists from Muslim societies (sounds better than Muslim atheists) will invite a wrath – covert or even overt – from Muslim voters . In countries which are committed to democracy , human rights with a bit of colonial guilt/white man’s burden , political parties play safe .
While Congress and mainstream parties are accused of “minority appeasement” – somewhat unjustly – the same dynamic applies in all countries where democracy is the rule , US, UK, you name it. Add to that charges of Racism , your hands are tied . Only in recent democracies like Hungary or Czech Republic , pro-Muslim dynamic does not apply. Behind all this is billions of $$$ from KSA which makes sure ethos of KSA is spread among Muslims worldwide. Even BJP after accusing Congress of “minority appeasement” for many years do the same thing at macro level – even though at micro level their cadres go out of control occasionally. Position of orthodox , sharia Islam is safe all over the world from political elites . So much so, that Turkey , which once suppressed Islamic orthodoxy is trying to position itself as the Defender of faith.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan I am not referring to politicians and elections. You are right about them. I am referring to masses of ordinary people. What is their excuse?
We completely agree about the globally dominant and extremely powerful Arabist lobby. And this is a large part of it; but it can’t be all of it.
Why cheer on the Islamist oppression, abuse and slaughter of moderate Sunnis (including LBGTQ, femnists, atheists), minority muslims, ex-muslims; when they know that the islamists also hate nonmuslim postmodernists and want to string all of them up?
Another bizarre phenomenon is that caucasion nonmuslims also cheer on and seem to endorse the abuse, oppression and slaughter of nonmuslim “darkies” by Islamists.
Could it be cognitive dissonance? A lack of intelligence? Could it be that there is a hidden unexpressed anger and hatred against moderate muslims, ex muslims, and “darkie” nonmulims hidden behind fake smiles and virtue signaling Orwellian politically correct double speak?
Most people tell me it is because of stupidity. If so, what can be done to increase their intelligence?
” I am not referring to politicians and elections. You are right about them. I am referring to masses of ordinary people. What is their excuse?”
The masses are quite angry at the state of affairs – the political/media elite strongly control law and administration to make sure it does not get out of hand. There are hate speech laws which can be invoked to curb what just a few years back would have been considered exercise of free speech and free thought. There is big split between the masses and the elite in western countries – that is why people like Trump are able to thrive. Even Facebook and Google thoroughly filter their content to make sure orthodox Muslims are not offended and people like Taslima or atheists or apostates don’t get too much publicity. This split between masses and elite is going to boil over in many western countries.
Shafiq, Razib and other Bengalis. What do you think about Mufassil Islam and Boba?:
I am not as harsh on Islam as Mufassil and have some different theological understandings of Islam than he does. Unlike him I am a large fan of many Sufi masters, many Shia Imams (including Imam Tawhidi and others who are not as famous), Maajid Nawaz. I think he interprets some passages of the holy Koran in the worst possible way whereas I interpret them more positively. But I don’t want to discuss these issues because what Islamists are doing to them are very, very wrong.
I greatly respect Mufassil and the Boba and believe the world should do everything possible to help them.
Look forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts on Boba and Mufassill!
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