So what’s wrong with being kaala?

In the comments below there’s a lot of discussion on colorism among brown subcontinentals as well as a fixation on particular facial features. Since I’m an American coconut I don’t really understand many of the nuances, though I’m curious from an anthropological perspective. Much of it obviously seems ludicrous for American browns. What’s the point in commenting on whether one sibling is lighter-skinned than another when you live in America and most of the population is far whiter than even “light-skinned” Indians could aspire to? (ironically, or not, the ‘black-fishing’ swarthy Kardashians look like a lot of light-skinned Indian celebrities to Americans)

But about half of the readership of this weblog now readers from India. Cultural values differ, and so does offense. For example, for Americans asking how much money you make is a very offensive question. For people in other societies, it is not. Why is it so offensive to Americans? Because money is really all we care about! The trigger tells you something deep about our values.

Recently I’ve been meeting many more Indians (from India) on Clubhouse, and I’ve been trying to interrogate differences in values. And one thing that I’ve encountered is a strong aversion to being called “kaala.” Even the most well-off and Westernized Indians seem to wince at the term, and will privately tell me to stop using it the way I am (addressed to people). I ask what the problem is, and they won’t want to get explicit, sometimes saying the connotation is negative. That’s obvious literally true, but how are you going to ever change the connotation unless you change practice?

This is obviously a form of cultural imperialism. Though blackness is not always positively connoted in the US, as a term it doesn’t have the same strongly negative valence as it does in Asia. During the summers I get very kaala in my exposed body parts because I don’t avoid the sun. When my mother asks how I’m doing I say I’m fine, but also I tell her next time she’ll see me I’m “kalo” (Bengali). She gets mad but is used to me talking in this way because being kalo is not really bad substantively (it isn’t). Americans care about whether you are fat or not. Though I don’t condome being mean to fat people, being fat is associated with lots of health ill-effects, and just the way you move is often unnatural (those of us who gain and lose weight can attest to the biomechanical variation). In contrast, being dark or light doesn’t matter too much now since most people don’t need to work outside.

Even in India (and Pakistan and Bangladesh) there will come to be a time when the generation of aunties who grew up in the 20th century will pass on. At that point, the generations who grew up when kaala was a term of opprobrium used by older generations should perhaps rethink their conditioning. I’m not judging, but it’s not really “natural,” it’s conditioning.

54 thoughts on “So what’s wrong with being kaala?”

  1. These screenshots will tell you what many South Asians think about Black or dark skin “kaalle” and AASI shifted tropical features and what is “wrong” with it. This is in the homeland, but also holds true for some in diaspora desi groups.

    ^And this is among the young generation, the urbane metro crowd from upper middle class circles. Basically darker skin (especially darkest brown and all shades of black, from greyish black to ebony) and facial features that are more “SE Asian” or AASI, like flatter bones and nose and associated eyes/mouth are correlated with lower status and more disenfranchisement.

    We dont look different from “Brown” and “Beige” South Asians only because we are poor or lower SES. Rather, many of us are poor and powerless simply because of being denied rights and advancement because we are very dark and Black and “tribal” looking, and we have been subjugated and oppressed precisely because of our physical appearance for millenia across all of South Asia, especially since Aryan invasion. We havent been allowed to mix freely with other “lighter” folks for fear of “impurity” and this has preserved our higher AASI shifted appearance like amber preserves DNA.

    1. @Gh78
      Lemme tell you this, brahmins treat dark brahmins bad too.Black brahmin is a representative of sudama(poor and weak). I have oberved this all my student life(still observing), Another thing A light skinned LC overpowers a UC(he speaks with confidence)
      There is a saying in Hindi belt that black brahmins and fat baniyas shouldnt be trusted.

      Collage of some memes by NI UCs on Other Indians

      1. This quite similar to memes biradri Pak make. It is just hatred of AASI by less AASI groups.

        Razib looks like a mostly pan passing Brown like I do.

        1. @thewarlock

          Brother, I wonder if you think I am “pan brown” passing? I have seen Razib sir, and he looks similar to folks from different parts of the country. I havent seen your picture though, feel free to share if you feel like.

          This is me:

          1. fwiw, bengalis can often tell i’m bengali. no idea how they do it, but i think it’s my eyes. they’re a bit narrow. i’m 15% east asian and it does show in subtle ways

            but yeah i think also look pretty generic brown aside from that

          2. You look like you can pass best in deccan and eastern gangetic plains. And that covers a lot of subcontinent

          3. @razib sir
            Plenty of folks mistake me for Black, especially when head shaved/covered. I think I pass as a POC broadly, but feel more affinity with Asian POC due to obvious reasons. BTW, small request Razib sir, could you reply to my query if possible, time permitting. I wanted to learn more about AASI/our heritage.

            I understand that SE Asians have admix from AASI, but I was more asking about what branch SE Asians (Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malay, Filipino, Thai, etc) exist on, the first branch with AASI and Australasians, or the second branch with NE Asians and Siberians? What about natives of the Americas?

            I understand that AASI is relatively closer to Andaman, but does a ghost/hypothetical “pure AASI” still cluster neatly within the East Eurasian cluster overall with pure NE Asians/SE Asians/Native Americans or is the relative closeness to Andaman enough to pull it further away from this modern East Eurasian cluster?

            Is this closeness to Onge also shared by other SE Asians/East Eurasians, and is this closeness due to ancient AASI and SE Asian admix in Andaman? I remember you said that some Natives of the Americas also show some affinities to Australasians. I read that there is no gene flow from Onge/Australasians into South Asians/AASI however and that the Burmese share the closest descent with Onge.
            It would make sense, I have seen Chinese ethnic groups like the Wa can occasionally have Black skin like us Tamils. Climatic adaptations probably made our skin even darker recently, while the other East Eurasians selected for lighter skin (I remember reading about this, Southern Indian folks used to be lighter than they are currently)

            I remember thewarlock said something about how we are similar to Latin Americans because of being a mix of divergent components. The other day, on YouTube, I noticed that Deepti Vempati, the Indian female contestant on Love is Blind, looked Hispanic to me, and a Latin friend of mine commented on the fact that she easily passes as a Latina with indigenous roots, along with her sister.

            Since then I have noticed that many South Asians, from all over the subcontinent actually pass very well as Hispanic people, despite high AASI, particularly those Hispanics with more indigenous ancestry that look like indigenous Central Americans/Native Americans etc. They also have very dark skin.

            I also know that Native Americans/Indigenous Americans look very different from NE/SE Asians and diverged from other East Eurasians around 30k-35k year ago, similar to AASI. Since we know that indigenous Latin Americans are East Eurasians despite looking different and clustering differently, doesnt that mean that AASI is also similar and purely East Eurasian? Perhaps it just evolved separately in South Asia and developed darker skin/appearance but retained overall a similar appearance to other East Eurasians, particularly America natives? Why else would they look identical to higher AASI South Asians? After all, there is no Onge in Latin Americans.
            I mean I know that the San Bushmen, East Africans and other West/Central African groups also diverged from each other 30-40k year ago, but they are all part of the “Indigenous Africa/Negroid” cluster and race. Same with many West Eurasian groups that have diverged from each other in similar time frames but are all “West Eurasians”. I was once told by an unpleasant (East) Asian individual that South Asians are “not really Asian” because they are their “own race” because of “Onge” ancestry. He misread and misunderstood the papers. If we had to classify AASI and South Asians in a “Race” what race would “pure AASI” be? East Eurasian/Mongoloid like Hispanic people? I dont want people to twist and misuse the scientific research to make false claims in order to exclude people they deem “inferior”. Thanks Razib sir.


            That’ll give you an idea. I can pass all over. People have asked me if I am from India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan. I look very S Asian. People know I am S Asian instantly. Brown and proud.

            The sky, river, and jungle mothers/fathers have all blessed me.

      2. @Shiva Ji
        Brother, this is simply more evidence of the poisonous behavior exhibited by South Asians towards their own higher AASI brethren. The implication here is that high AASI people should “know their place” and dare not speak out/ask for their rights/express their preference to marry lower AASI women.

        One of the memes is directly targeting thewarlock? I dont understand what it is trying to make light of? This kind of bullying is really unacceptable. Perhaps people dont realize that we are all mixed with AASI, so defaming it is really no different than defaming yourself. Whether you are “Brahmin” or “Dalit” or “Indian” or “Nepali” or “Paki/Afgani” AASI is present everywhere. I think it is high time that other South Asians learn to accept and respect this part of our ancestry that makes us who we are. This is another reason why we need to understand the essence and origins of AASI. So that it isnt something to be afraid of, but something to be revered. It is not Australoid. Thank you for exposing these people brother. Our country is really in tatters socially.

        1. @Gh78 I understand your concern.They hate a part of themselves (1/4th).That warlock meme wasn’t personal but targeting jains.Jains arent considered epitome of beauty(Creater of that meme is Dard(F).So she sits of top of Indian beauty hierarchy and can mock anyone.I know jats ,patharis are considered good looking.Many Bjp leaders and SM karyakartas made statements after the abrogation of 370 that now they can marry a white Kashmiri girl and I have seen brahms saying “Well I’m against ICM but can take jaatni from my village anyday”.Anyway, this is all about looks here not caste(As you can see they love Chammars when they’re beautiful).On how you look,I dont doubt if some can misjudge you as an Africanamerican .Do you look pan Indian?In India you will be Just a little dark Indian nothing else But you do look like little AfAm.I have collected ~300 looks from all over India SubC randomly on FB . Believe me Some NI UC are as dark as morgan Freeman.
          I love to post If you’ll want.

          1. @Shiva Ji
            Brother, yes you are right I am mistaken for African American for some reason, but I identify as pan-South Asian and as an Asian POC. In India, people have called me “Climber” “Dalit” and “Backbencher” among other choice epithets. But please post pictures of our fellow darker and Black-skinned brethren. I would love to see and show folks the beauty of our diversity. We must be acknowledged and appreciated, instead of shying away from the limelight.

            I didnt realize that there were specific stereotypes for particular religions/groups like Jains looking unattractive. As far as looks go, are these mainstream in NW India? I dont know much about that region. And are these NW groups like Kashmiris and Jats very different looking from the common folk? Can you tell who they are by looking at them? I did see one woman from Delhi once and she looked rather Turkish to me so I guess I see where these stereotypes come from. Not my preference though. I like high AASI looks.

            Also, this Dard woman you were talking about, do you know this person? Why does she post such things? Does she look very different/think that she looks very different from us? Please post her picture as well, so that we can see just how different these folks look from us less “fortunate” darker folks.

          2. @gh78 You should start worrying less about this.We live in a society ,$hit happens ,they are wrong we know this but we cannot do much about it.I know it can be a matter of whole life for somebody.

            I save caste and region in acronym so figure it out.
   Dark brahmins
            (Not included other UCs ,guptas are most dark in my UC collection)
            (bottom left is a chitpavan who are known for most western features in India,He replied when he was asked about being dark that people often ask him this that why he is dark,what went wrong?)

   Light skinned NW
            only 1 is bengali brah,others NW included OBCs(yadav suthar)

            I will post more in appropriate post.

          3. Lol they can mock me however much they want. Regardless, it shows more about them, than it does about me. I conventionally look a lot better than the vast majority of them, and I’ve done well for myself, including with types they creepily salivate over. But most importantly, I like myself. That’s the key.

          4. @thewarlock
            Brother, I saw your post. Very handsome, strong and confident appearance brother. I thought you pass well all across South Asia, unlike me. By the way, do people mistake you for Hispanic like they mistake me for Black? Ever since you told me that Latin Americans are like South Asians genetically, it gave me a sudden realization, that many South Asians can pass as Latinos and vice versa. In fact, this has helped me understand South Asia better, and I firmly believe this is the missing link to help us understand AASI. We have AASI that is like the indigenous natives of the Americas. That is why they look identical in most cases!

            I was watching Youtube, they showed Deepti Vempati, a Tamil woman and her family, and honestly, both she and her sister looked fully Hispanic to my Latino friend and I. Even I can pass as an Afr Am mixed Latino. But you pass extremely well as a typical Hispanic/Latino to the point I am sure everyone in USA probably assumes you are one. Here in the States most people only think people with specifically Indian features like me or like Mindy Kaling is Indian. You will probably always be guessed as Hispanic for this reason. I mean I myself only recognize those Indians that look more Tamil like me. Has this been your experience brother?

          5. @Shiva Ji
            Brother, those pictures of darker brethren in UCs fit me well. I can pass among that diversity. But brother warlock and Razib will not pass, they pass better in lighter skinned UC crowd. By the way, do you have more pictures of these lighter skin folks:

            ^They look quite distinct from most of us, Black or Brown, face wise too. What caste are they? I was unable to read the acronyms on the pictures. And please keep posting these collages brother, it helps me learn about the diversity of the South Asia.

          6. @Shiva Ji
            Brother, thank you for posting the collage. I pass well among dark-skinned UC. Brother warlock and Razib pass better among lighter UC crowd.

            By the way, what caste are these three lighter skinned folks you posted in album:


            ^They look quite different from most South Asians, facial feature wise too. Do you have more pictures of these three people? I was unable to read and make sense of their acronyms, one has no label too. Thanks brother, and please keep posting more of these collages, I want to learn more about our diversity in South Asia.

          7. @gh78 kp-kashmiri pundit ,sharma
            yd-yadav,probably Northwest
            I donot have more of them ,I save randomly.
            Both have generally 10-20% aasi ,In your case I m sure it is more than double or triple of it,and then high and low steppe in them and you respectively.It clear genetics.

   – Gupta s(NorthIndia)
   – White looking brahm s(NW,Himalayan)

          8. @Shiva Ji

            Yes, you are right brother. It is about genes. But I am probably around 75-80% AASI, Nadar both side. So around 4 to 8 times more than people with 10-20% AASI. I probably have 0 steppe, and a different AASI than these people too. I am wondering these people, Yadavs and KPs, are they the most West Eurasian in India? They almost look like White already, so I am assuming people who are even less AASI in India will look fully White? Which castes have least AASI? Have you seen any from these groups? Are they most discriminatory?

            I mean that child you posted looks like Ukranian baby almost, blonde hair and blue eyes? I had no idea this type existed in subcontinent. I imagine they are very colorist and racist folks to be able to preserve phenotypes like this in India, where most of us are black skinned and dark brown skinned with black hair and eyes, and heavily AASI shifted features in most cases. They would probably treat me like an outcaste. I know from experience, but only Tamil Brahmin folks. These people probably think Tamil Brahmins beneath them. Sad story for South Asians. Please post more brother, its shocking how little we know of South Asia diversity. Thanks for this service.

          9. @Shiva Ji

            Brother, the Guptas in the album are extremely different from what I thought they would look like. Where do they place in caste system? I dont know any personally, just Dr. Sanjay Gupta from CNN, and he looks nothing like these folks. I feel like I can almost pass within Guptas, but perhaps my facial features are still a little different. Though they have black skin like me in some cases. Are these folks migrants from South who mixed with Northern AASI? It could explain why they have black skin but different looking features than me.

        2. @Gh78

          So I get confused occassionally with Latinos. But I have always lived in areas with lots of Indians (biggest US metros and their burbs), so people there are familiar with Indians and can generally tell right away that I am some sort of S Asian.

          What states outside of my own do I pass in to you in India? My 23&me puts my closest as Maharasthra and Rajasthan.

          1. @thewarlock
            That is interesting brother, I personally would take you for Hispanic only because I am less familiar with your look. But it makes sense that folks mistake you for Hispanic in US, because I have seen many Hispanic people with your look, like perfect match. Same with Deepti Vempati and most other folks I see from North and West South Asia. On the other hand, no one would ever mistake me for Hispanic. I am surprised folks can tell you are South Asian, it is probably after knowing your name and other details. Probably in latino areas, like Western US, they would mistake for Hispanic.

            In India, your look is more common and I think restricted to Northern/Western parts of South Asia, and once you cross Deccan/Hyd it is no longer present in natives in Southern parts. Only Brahmins and migrants from North and West might have it. Even in Maharasthra, you look different from Marathi natives, who have a native southern Indian look. Only Brahmins might overlap.
            I think you pass best in Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab, Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh, Pakistan, Nepal, Afganistan. I also think your AASI is very different from mine, because we obviously look mixed with different strains of native South Asians, especially since I almost look mixed with African folks. Perhaps southern AASI have additional admix from another source Northern AASI dont have.

          2. @thewarlock
            Brother, I was wondering can you explain what “South Indian” means on Harappa World results? Is it half West Eurasian and half ASI? What about ASI? I am reading it is 33% West Eurasian and remaining AASI?

            So if someone is 50% South Indian, this would break down to 25% West Eurasian, and 25% ASI, and 50% other components? And then 33% of ASI is West Eurasian, so 17% would be actual AASI, for someone who is 50% South Indian, based on Harappa Model, not including additional AASI from the other 50% of ancestry? Does this make sense?

          3. I think south Indian is maybe like 75% aasi and 25% iranic related. That’s the average on the three individuals in the Narsimha paper. Maybe a tad less AASI because it doesn’t match up perfectly? Someone like me is probably 18% steppe 52% iranic related 30% aasi or so I think? Basically I cluster with S Indian Brahmins but I am a tad bit less steppe (they are like 20% steppe) and more ANE, the latter of which is a component of iranic majority aspect of IVC ancestry.

            My family is interesting with pigment. The lightest are extremely pale with a couple of green eyed people scattered through extended family (all same caste of Guju jain vanias so likely very similar genetic makeup). I am the darkest person in my extended family.

            Razib makes the point repeatedly that a big part of the reason phenotype and overall genotype don’t seem as congruent as some people expect is that the genes that determine phenotype are relatively few loci compared to all genes in general. Therefore there can he a bias that skews for phenotype but not really change overall genotype much. This can go in both directions. Hence why Andaman Islanders are very genetically distant from sub saharan africans but do bear some similar phenotypic features.

            I would also not get caught too much in the ultra light pigment people above. They are non existent in most S Asian communities and only a small minority in the ones where they do exist. Most S Asians are light to dark brown with a significant minority that are black skinned. A smaller but definitely visible minority are light skinned. And an even tinier minority of those are as light skinned as the type Shiva has posted.

          4. @thewarlock
            Brother, thanks for reply. But South Indian from Harappa seems to be 50% or more West Eurasian from what I read, you probably thought I was asking about ASI in the ANI-ASI model.

            But I was actually referring to the South Indian component in Harappa that South Indian Brahmins have at 48% I believe. From my initial reading, this component appears to be at least 50% West Eurasian, and the remainder is ASI. This is correct right?

            ASI is what you are talking about, and it is 33% West Eurasian, rest AASI. But Razib sir thinks that AASI has some extra West Eurasian admix yet to be defined. So I guess we need more data to get clarity on what pure AASI is, once we removed the West Eurasian admix that it has currently. I guess we can call this new AASI version AAASI since it will be purely East Eurasian?

            Also, you are correct brother. These lighter types are an anomaly across South Asia, whether India or Pak or Afgan. We are dominantly a darker skinned people, people of color with beautiful black, dark brown and some lighter brown and olive folks. But overall we are nowhere near white skinned on average, forget about having a high frequency of light eyes and light hair commonly. We must realize that South Asia is the land of melanin and appreciate this gift.

          5. @Gh

            bro, 50% is too much for west eurasian component of ASI on there. I am 47% ASI on harrapaworld. But that would mean I am max 23.5% AASI. That seems too low to me.

          6. @thewarlock
            Brother, I just confirmed, Harappa South Indian was 50% West Eurasian, rest ASI, and according to Razib Sir, this is what he said about South Indian, ASI and AASI:
            “hm. well ASI was ~50% i think, and it’s 30% west eurasian. so AASI less than 50%? i’d have to run the numbers”
            So it looks like South Indian is 50% ASI, and ASI is 30-33% West Eurasian. Razib sir also thinks AASI has some West Eurasian in it, he said recently, so the actual AASI might be lesser than we know now.
            I also think that folks have different ASI and AASI strains, so the West Eurasian numbers might be little different for all of us. Maybe some of us have a different South Indian component and an ASI strain with slightly less West Eurasian? That would explain some minor number discrepancy. Also, we have folks with SE Asian admix that I think is AASI too. But you look very different from me brother, and honestly I can see you being around 25% AASI easily. I am probably closer to more double that number.

        3. @gh78 See,such western looking people are rare in their community itself but yes they occur in more frequency than in other communities and almost none in sc st(NW exception) .But still there is huge phenotypic overlaping because we are constituents of same 3-4 ancestry.You can easily find a table in Brownpundits about aasi,steppe% in communities.more steppe, less aasi and then you know.I dont just see but live with them,Discrimination happens generally on caste/social status ,but yeah if you look good and from marginilized community you’ll experience less Discrimination (but thats everywhere).I believe youll never find someone like that blue eyed baby in SCSt even in NW is little unlikely
          About guptas,they are UC ,vaishya(just read about demographics and castesystem).They are not migrants ,aasi is spread allover India subcontinent they just have some high aasi(25-33%)in comparison to brahmins(20-25%) in north india.The reason why they look different than you is beacause they have 15-20% steppe too where you probably have not more than 5%. We are diversed within community too.
          And lastly, Yes, NI brahmins do mock South Indian brahmins over look. see

 – bengali brahmins and bengali bihari UCs( generic bengalis are disimilar)
 – blue eyed NW brahmin,others
 – moderate /light skin dalits,others

          1. @Shiva Ji

            Thanks for posts brother. The Kalash man looks like normal North Indian man. They dont seem like Central Asian folks. The other posts mocking SC and ST are just toxic and pathetic. I cant believe our country has come to this. Very bleak future unless intercaste mixing happens soon.

          2. @Shiva Ji
            Thanks for referring me to the table brother, it seems the AASI range in South Asia is huge. Also, Steppe component range is very big too. But we are all South Asian and closer to each other than to other folks outside South Asia. We have to stay united and marry across caste lines to solidify this closeness and become homogenized.

  2. in the USA there is a slight positive correlation with income/wealth and dark skin for browns. yes, it’s all upper caste south indians, but they are still south indians.

    the poorest non-muslim group are sikhs (mostly jatts). i have the income data

    1. The middling racial range does well in India too with Banias. The middle browns get a nice dollop of hate there for it

    2. @Razib sir
      I have seen that some escape the clutches of this system by moving to the West, like you mentioned with some darker South folks, but they are still Brahmins, and you know how that goes for power structures in the South. I think the Amritraj brothers are the best example I know of us men of the soil/black folks making it.

      To get a great insight into how the dark skin/AASI features are used as proxy for discrimination and how the caste system is still entrenched in India, please watch this show, it is subtitled, and the program begins at 2:00 onwards:

      There are interviews with many South Asians who have suffered from discrimination, and also with the director of the documentary I linked many times before, with the disenfranchised Dalits, Stalin K. This was the first time such a sensitive topic like caste discrimination was broached on national television. This show was later banned by the BJP led government for being too taboo and for harming the image of the party.

      1. look, i’m coocnut, but i’m not a colorism virgin! i believe you in broad sketches

        second, it’s not just south indian brahmins, richest group in the dataset i have are reddy. one of my friends from the bay area is a very dark nadar software engineer. i know pretty black people from kerala do who are working at FAANG companies. these people are not adivasi and dalit (1% of american browns are dalit). but they are just very dark south indians. also some ppl from the north who are dark, but on average far less.

        the point is that educational selection was strongest for the darkest geographical class, in the south, so there’s no association with high status socioeconomically and being light-skinned. a khatri american friend joked once that there was a rough division between dark indians who handled the robust technical stuff and loaded into the professions, and lighter indians who did softer marketing and what not, tho i think he was joking.

        obviously it is different in the subcontinent. just saying the USA is a bizarre situation where the expectations are confuted

        1. Anecdote here but a lot of the farmer peasant/landowner caste chain migration groups (Patels and Jatts) have more wealth/income than it is notable on paper. They tend to have small businesses rather than white collar tech jobs, so they hide their money better. Yes, a greater portion are poor and blue collar. But I know a good number with a lot of money but little money on paper. This is quite different than the FAANG IT S Indian crowd. Some of them also want to be entrepreneurial but can’t because of H1b. That is a separate issue though.

  3. I have been reading GH78’s comments on this and the past thread. He (or she) is dropping “feces into the information stream”.

    These are the facts –

    The highest economically performing and the highest HDI region in India is the contiguous zone of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamilnadu, AP and Telangana.

    Anybody with the slightest interest in BP’s writings over the past years will know that this contiguous area is the AASI dominant region of India.

    The AASI heavy regions of India are literally the economic, cultural and technological centre of gravity of India.

    If millions and millions of Indians were routinely discriminated on the basis of skin colour over centuries, then it would have definitely resulted in AASI heavy regions lagging behind in HDI indicators and peaking in poverty/crime. The reality is exactly the opposite.

    There are however, skintone preferences in the media and visual arts. This is undeniable.

    1. The highest economically performing and the highest HDI region in India is the contiguous zone of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamilnadu, AP and Telangana.

      One could also argue these were the regions (including Sri Lanka) most exposed/invaded by the west. So they (select groups) had a head start in education etc in integrating/competing with the economically dominant west.

      1. Bengal had the biggest head start (Bengali Renaissance era) , and it is the natural port for the population centers of the Hindi hinterland.

        Culturally Bengalis have had a big impact on India. Not sure what went wrong economically.

        1. too much talk talk and sweetened tea. look at karnataka, people have put their head down and taken over all of the saffron agenda of yogi, thackeray, togadia and the rest!!!

      2. @sbarrkum

        *tongue-in-cheek* British were in the Caribbean and parts of Southern Africa longer than they were in India. I do not see any dynamism there. Secret sauce is AASI!!

        GH78 was shitposting and trying to create a “woke Olympics event for Indian skin tone” – the current undisputed champion being BLM. This wholesale import of American quackery into the Indian sphere needs to be crushed ruthlessly.

        Indians were never ever denied a seat on the bus or a drink at the hooch shop or a job for the colour of their skin. Those who still have residual doubts should check out a colour photo of Dr. Ambedkar. It should clear your head.

        1. @Ugra

          Brother, the father of our nation was thrown out of the train in South Africa for the way he looked. I dont know why you are spreading lies and falsehoods. We discriminate among each other, and then look the other way when our own people suffer both domestically and abroad.

          1. I’m with @Ugra here, Victimhood Complex is the cancer of the mind. You need to stop caring about people’s Validation.

          2. ….was thrown out of the train in South Africa ….

            Yes, by white settlers. Dumber is dumber than dumb.

  4. This thread just reminded me, I do a lot of outdoor sports so am basically perma-tanned to a more dark brown complexion but for a period of several months during covid basically didn’t leave home.

    Then went for lunch with two fob friends of mine both Punjabi (one Indian / one Pakistani).

    Got random effusive praise / compliments on skin color. None of the White or non-brown ppl in my life noticed at all. Lol.

    Maybe kala browns should avoid light browns to escape racial discrimination.

    1. during covid19 2020 in the summer i was indoor so much my wife complained i looked yellow/sallow. she had me wear shorts and spend 6 hours outside exposing my front and back so i looked ‘normal’ (darker) to her.

      1. @razib sir

        Interestingly, my parents often tell me the opposite. They think I am in “the danger zone” when it comes to skin color and ironically used to rub sunblock all over me when I was younger, in a feeble attempt to keep me from getting even darker/blacker. Nowadays, they dont even try, I freely sunbathe without a care for its melanin enhancing qualities. Vitamin D is a blessing from god. BTW, razib sir, please if you can shed some light on the query I wrote above regarding AASI in your reply to my picture thread, I would appreciate your knowledge/insight into the questions I had.

      2. y wife complained i looked yellow/sallow.
        Same in winter. The moment the water became about 60 in late spring (late April, May) the GF and I would hit the beach for about 6 hours and 5-10min forays into the water. Just one day of that and I would be back to “normal” color. My GF liked that color which she call a deep dark red brown.

        On the flip side many years ago when I went back to SL for a holiday (few and far between) one my older cousin said you have not got any color after going to the US. I knew she meant, I had not become paler (lighter color). .

        Specially in the US, if the sun was out, I was on outdoors, mainly on a beach beach. So never really got a permanent pale color.

        I attribute my reasonable good health (at 63+) because of being outdoors in the sun, despite a lifestyle of heavy drinking and smoking since the age of 14 or so.

  5. in the meantime coke bangla has given one more ‘hit’, bulbuli. if you see the chorus girls they are relatively light, where as all others are strong sugarless coffee colour!!!!

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Brown Pundits