142 thoughts on “Open Thread – 06/05/2021 – Brown Pundits”

  1. 9 private hospitals get 50% of vaccines in India

    The BJP’s “universal healthcare plan” looks a lot like America’s flawed current system, which merely empowers the insurance companies and still has prohibitive out-of-pocket costs, on top of significant inequality.

    But healthcare isn’t just the area where the BJP messes up. Newslaundry’s editor in chief is a wife of a healthcare oligarch which has been jacking up the prices during the pandemic and raking in the big bucks. Newslaundry poses as a woke news outlet. The phenomenom of culturally progressive but economically feudal exists in India too, as they are surely looking at the US example with admiration.

    In fact, the narrow range of economic debate in India is one of the most confounding political issues to me. There is a huge scope of cultural politics to choose from but economically speaking the INC, AAP and the BJP differ quite little in ideology. The only real alternative seems to be communists, but that’s a non-starter for obvious reasons. A serious social democratic force seem to be MIA. I don’t buy the idea that you need to be rich first. Sweden was a rather poor country in the 1930s when the Social democrats took power, with higher mortality and lower life expectancy than India has today, and instituted a range of policies that have largely survived till this day.

    1. That’s one sleazy headline. Of the 228 million vaccine doses administered so far, 12 million doses were reserved for private hospitals – of which these nine private hospitals booked 6 million doses. So they have got 2.5% of the total vaccine doses in India.

    2. That headline is a bit misleading and the story is more about insinuation than data.

      It’s not hospitals but hospital chains that have acquired these vaccines. And cummulatively, I am pretty sure these 9 chains would account for 50% of the patients that go to private hospitals in the country. So there doesn’t seem to be that much of a discrepancy. It might even be the case that they have procured fewer vaccines than the share of patients that they serve.

      This is not a knock on your point about India lacking choices in economic policies, which I think is a fair assessment.
      (I also think it’s difficult to come up with something new. There’s regression to the mean.)

      1. Why do we feel India lack choices in economic policies? Shouldn’t we vote for the Congress, after all they gave us an economist PM with high GPD growth? What’s stopping us? 😛

        Also i think this liberalized policy has had an unintended benefit for BJP. Had the centralized procurement stayed with the 2nd wave, i see a lot of middle classes turning against the BJP. Because it was equitable, and we all know how privileged our middle classes are, masters in cutting corners. Now i see a bit of anger subside against the BJP as lot of them are getting vaccinated. Though not much voting power, they still hold ‘narrative’ power. Now they feel the center at least has gotten out of the way.

        In rural India, the fight is not about getting vaccine, but relief in lockdowns and treatment. So in a very cynical way the BJP might just scrap through.

        1. i feel bjp will scrap by doing the following:
          1. modi will cry and say he is sorry for the deaths etc. there will be a public shradha for all the dead on the banks of ganga or in gaya. this is possible, as karnataka govt. is doing it here on banks of cauvery for the ashes which are unclaimed.
          2. he will say that it is his last election, which might be true.
          3. more direct cash transfers, less taxes, including reducing income tax.
          4. massive road , hospital and house building. its sympathisers are doing silent relief work which is not getting too much publicity.
          5. of course keeping mandir, 370 etc in the background but visible.
          6. scaring the base about pappu, mamata etc. this has already started.
          7. finally not cutting his hair!!.

          1. As long as leftist radicalislamoapologists run what used to be the center-left INC, Modi’s BJP will continue to dominate national elections.

          2. More socialism and drama. Ah more of the same BS that has hindered “devlopmint” for the last 70 years

  2. Just finished Family man season 2.

    Lot of red meat for both liberals ( Mamta Banerjee as PM, Islamist-Dravidian alliance against N-Indian Brahmins) and right wing (Love-Jihad, nation-under-threat) alike. Good job by directors.

    1. I see this “Dravidian” stuff coming crashing down eventually. The heartland is expanding. Look at the gains even in Bengal. BJP is cynically even “letting,” to some degree, atrocities play out. People will realize the evil nature of the radical left and that of their radical religious allies.

  3. Who thinks that one of the following is going to play out in the next 5 years? Make a choice and put up your reasons

    a) The EU is going to completely unravel into a Western Europe vs South+Eastern Europe blocs. Russia plays the chef.

    b) California secedes from the Union.

    c) Mamta makes some “moves” to integrate W Bengal with Bangladesh

    d) The UK disintegrates into its 18th century constituents.

      1. Hmm….(d) and (a) are exclusionary to each other in a sense. The next 5 years will see some serious geopolitical unravelling. post-Covid will be more impactful than Covid.

    1. Warlock, what genetic advantages do South Asians have over other “races”? Thanks.

      1. Many S Asian groups seem to have a light skeletal frame and long limbs. This could be useful for marathon running. I think Indians have some untapped potential with that like the Kenyans and Ethiopians.

        1. Long limbs and short skeletal frame is also useful for sports that prefer light weight and high ape index like climbing, kickboxing, and bars in gymnastics.

          1. Most gymnasts I see have short levers. Hence, Chinese dominate. Chinese tend to have smaller frame on average like Indians, with some groups being bigger on average like Europeans (more NW people in subcontinent have bigger frame and more Northern Chinese, but average even in “big” areas is still structural smaller than euro structures but enough of large population size that extremes have enough people in them that could be trained), but their advantage is short levers that make them good for gymnastics and weightlifting.

            Long levers are good for marathon running, cycling, and like what was said here boxing, kickboxing in light weight classes. Climbing is a good one too.

          2. There aren’t even ten proper climbing gyms in entire India. I have heard of people doing bouldering in Hampi and Himanchal, rock climbing around Pune, Bankura, Purulia and Badami. Having seen the mad people in Utah and California, I am pretty sure Indian climbers are >50 years behind the world. In general outdoors are not very popular in India, plus people can’t afford good equipment. We don’t have the numbers, we don’t have the skills, this is never going to work out.

            The government mountaineering schools here are prehistoric focusing on 1950s siege techniques. But they are very cheap to attend so there might be cost constraints.

          3. Ditto for cycling, I have cycled a lot with clubs in both the US and India. There is enormous difference, we will have to plot the two on a log-linear plot with base 100. American university teams are on a different planet altogether in equipment (100:1 difference), training, commitment, coaching…

            I wish it ends differently, but I am certain there are less than 100 people in entire India who own and use even a mid range mountain bike (something with Shimano X9 or X7) and less than 1000 well-used full-carbon Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 road bikes in India.

      2. But again S Asians are quite diverse. So there are some sub groups that will be good at other stuff.

    2. @warlock
      Indians totally dominate olympic lifting in the commonwealth games. No NE indians of note but a mix of south indians and punjabis. I know its not the olympics, and there are no chinese/cental asians/or slavs in the mix. But its worth noting that india does better than well-resourced countries like australia, canada, and the UK in these events.

      1. Yeah because it is both S Indians and Punjabis, that too non-caste S Indians as well, it makes me think there is a lot more potential in India because the most genetically on average distinct major groups produce the best sports people in oly lifting. But this could just be that only those two groups have, for convergent reasons, the best genetics for oly lifting. You see this trend in bodybuilding too. The best bodybuilders to come out of India have been Premchand Dogra (a kashmiri in the 1980s) and Sangram Chougle (a tamil). Ghuman is also good. Anyway, good evidence with common wealth games. I don’t like using bodybuilding as metric because it is a beauty pageant, not a sport. But similar trends are seen there.

        Maybe weightlifting is only big in South and NW? Also, the South and NW have best nutrition too and relatively better HDI. Gujarat and Maharashtra (outside of Mumbai) are good on GDP per capita type markers but laggards on stuff like HDI. Hard to say what is making some groups good. Regardless, as a big powerlifting enthusiast, I hope barbell training becomes more and more of a norm in India.

        In the diaspora, strongest guy I know personally, pound for pound has origins in Orissa. The guy had a 340 pause bench, 475 squat, and 550lb deadlift at 170lbs in high school. Of course, there are people who are even better. But the guy was very good. He was on the wrestling team. Built like a tank at 5’7. Thick bone structure and lean. Yes there are some fat guys who are stronger but I said pound for pound (not exactly but Wilks wise) for a reason.

      2. My brother used to do olympic weightlifting in college, and according to him one big reason US / Canada / UK etc performed poorly was due to the strict drug testing.

        Other countries would at best look the other way, or in the case of Russia / China etc help their athletes get around the doping tests.

        (He was proven correct later in my eyes by “Icarus” which exposed Russia’s institutionalized olympic doping program and Russia subsequent temporary ban from the olympics)

  4. So I was looking into why India’s coronavirus numbers have been dropping so rapidly. I am skeptical that the lackadaisical lockdowns in India are so effective against spread and vaccination numbers are low.

    The drop seems to correlate with deployment Ivermectin. Tamil Nadu was late Goa was most aggressive (suggesting people take it prophylactically).

    This is not my feild, and I have been wrong a lot with regards to this pandemic. But I like making predictions and seeing how things pan out. I am fairly optimistic on this therapeutic.

    1. Ivermectin is both an antibiotic and an anti-viral drug. I don’t know what effects its large scale use is going to cause. Antibiotic resistance is a big problem in India anyway.

      I did take it when I was sick, though since that’s what my doctor told me to.

      1. Yes, to be fair I have pretty low confidence in the hypothesis. Regardless of the cause it is good to see declining cases in India.

  5. Does anyone have any idea why Bharat Biotech has not released final Phase-3 data?

    They should have reached their pre-determined endpoint by now, I suppose. How long does it usually take to unblind the data (by standards of this pandemic)?

  6. https://twitter.com/sibinmohan/status/1401537931165065223

    “Fantastic thread on the north-south divide in India from a South Indian perspective.

    This particularly struck me:

    “India was never for us. The rules, way of living, history, everything that is intrinsically Indian or Desi has only been brahmincial, North Indian versions of it.””

    @Warlock u were saying something about Dravidian crashing out

    1. Yes, North Indians decide everything including staying at 1/3rd the income of agriculturally less suitable South India. UP Brahmins also decided that Maharashtra where they will end up being an underclass will be the richest state in India. Also, they coaxed the Mumbai entertainment industry into routinely portraying UP-Bihar folks as illiterate, uncouth, uncultured, especially feudal etc etc.

      Most importantly, North Indians compel Southern industries to feature demure, light-skinned women from the North as leads in their movies.

    2. Kitni rotlu hai yeh re!

      Girmit aur Hoju ka dil garden-garden ho jaayega padh ke. ​

      Her ‘arguments’ have holes bigger than the Bootes void.

      1. Actually girmit and hoju give me hope that there has been a rise of pro-India voices in the south. Couple of decades back the whole north-south debate was dominated by Dravidian separatists. Now there is a split , much like what’s happening in Bengal.

        Even south movies and shows have markedly become more “Indian” and Hindu. And thats causing this feeling of losing by the Dravidians in that tweet thread.

    3. “https://twitter.com/sibinmohan/status/1401537931165065223

      “Fantastic thread on the north-south divide in India from a South Indian perspective.”

      Eh, there’s so much BS in that thread. I think there’s some legitimate grievances the South has, as I’m sure other regions have too, and they should be acknowledged and worked on. But much of that particular thread is nonsense and should not be taken as representative of a South Indian perspective.

      Not surprised the Indian RW would highlight it, as it gives them another opportunity to continue their rich tradition of hurling hatred toward the usual suspects; TN, Kerala, and Bengal (tho spared in this case obv).

        1. @Bhimrao

          “I don’t understand why do you take Bengal in your fold? There is nothing redeeming about Mamata or CPI in Bengal. At least in UP/Bihar there are checks and balances.”

          I wanted Mamta to win this time just because I was worried about India increasingly becoming a one-party state. The fact that a non-BJP party won instils some faith that the democratic system in India is still operational. The next step of course is to have a healthy and constructive opposition. I don’t know enough about Mamta, but she probably doesn’t fit the bill.

          The other reason is just solidarity after seeing so much hate piled on TN / Kerala / Bengal by the Indian RW. It’s one thing to argue about politics but the Indian RW online goes way too far; sometimes advocates for violence; and often goes beyond politics and into ethnic bigotry.

  7. Is India finally going to extinguish terrorism in Kashmir ? Since the abrogation of article 370, the ratio of terrorists to security personnel killed has risen from 2-3 to 4-5. I dont know what ratio will make the costs of sustaining terrorism prohibitive for Pakistan.


    Nearly 30% of the target population of J&K has been given at least one vaccine dose, second only to HP. Hope Kashmiris are finally convinced how much better it is to be with a democracy than Pakistan.

    1. Terrorism will never be extinguished in Kashmir, just like Hamas will never be extinguished in Palestine. The dynamics of terrorism is such that it’s a very low cost enterprise for Pakistan. Compare the resources expended by Israel”s iron dome vs hamas rockets. That’s the same equation we are talking about here. And terrorists have to win only once.

      In Kashmiri preferring india over Pakistan, let Ambedkar enlighten you.


      “ How Muslim politics has become perverted is shown by the attitude of the Muslim leaders to the political reforms in the Indian States. The Muslims and their leaders carried on a great agitation for the introduction of representative government in the Hindu State of Kashmir. The same Muslims and their leaders are deadly opposed to the introduction of representative governments in other Muslim States. The reason for this strange attitude is quite simple. In all matters, the determining question with the Muslims is how it will affect the Muslims vis-a-vis the Hindus. If representative government can help the Muslims, they will demand it, and fight for it. In the State of Kashmir the ruler is a Hindu, but the majority of the subjects are Muslims. The Muslims fought for representative government in Kashmir, because representative government in Kashmir meant the transfer of power from a Hindu king to the Muslim masses. In other Muslim States, the ruler is a Muslim but the majority of his subjects are Hindus. In such States representative government means the transfer of power from a Muslim ruler to the Hindu masses, and that is why the Muslims support the introduction of representative government in one case and oppose it in the other. The dominating consideration with the Muslims is not democracy. The dominating consideration is how democracy with majority rule will affect the Muslims in their struggle against the Hindus. Will it strengthen them, or will it weaken them? If democracy weakens them, they will not have democracy. They will prefer the rotten state to continue in the Muslim States, rather than weaken the Muslim ruler in his hold upon his Hindu subjects.“

      1. The data clearly show that Pakistanis ability to orchestrate terror in the valley depends on structures inside India. Kashmiri separatists always knew that they would never succeed militarily against India, but they didnt have much to loose by joining Pakistan. The dynamics are different now, there is a practical and material incentive to be with India, if not a moral one.

        Regarding the comparison with Hamas, I know the Indian right fawns over Israel, and while they might be superior per personnel, India vs Pakistan is not the same as Israel vs Iran.

    2. bruh.
      You thought they were care about socio-economic factors?
      No. They are blinded by religion.

      Indian kashmir is way ahead of pakistan in hdi,gdp,literacy and what not.

    3. In what way is Kashmir a democracy. It does not have an elected government and is being run by officials from outside J&K. It is under imperial rule from Delhi.

  8. The Central Govt has released the Ease of Living Index 2020 for Indian cities.


    The best city to live in India is (Namma) Bangalore – a very close second is Pune. Then you have Ahmedabad, Chennai and Surat. Navi Mumbai ranks higher than Greater Mumbai. Delhi bows out of the top 10 (Kejriwal and Ms ruining the plot??).

    The top 10 are fully in the South and West with one lone entrant from Central India (Indore). This contiguous belt (TN, Kerala, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat) is India’s goldilocks zone – where capitalism is finely balanced by socialist hankering, Brahmin intellectualism is tempered by the action oriented peasant castes, not enough Muslims to trigger specious fights wasting political energy (Christians are the equal minority) and home to the three largest Hindu dynasties of the last millennium – Chola, Vijayanagara and Maratha (no Mughals to bequeath generational poverty).

    This is what the rest of India should look like. But it cannot, or can it?

    1. @Ugra

      “This contiguous belt (TN, Kerala, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat) is India’s goldilocks zone”

      Great post. I think India is slowly developing its own version of the European blue banana


      The northern point of the blue banana would be Haryana, Punjab, Delhi, Himachal, Uttarakhand. The Rajasthan segment is a work in progress that will probably take a long time and is a strong counterpoint to my argument.

      Of the states that you mention in your post, I think Maharashtra and Karnataka are particularly noteworthy. Kerala lacks industrialization. Gujarat is a dry state and frankly seems a bit boring. TN is a bit too chauvinistic. Within the goldilocks zone you propose, Maharashtra and Karnataka seem like the goldilocks within the goldilocks.

      Interestingly, Maharashtra seems like the most Dravidian among the Indo-Aryan states and Karnataka the most Indo-Aryan among the Dravidian states.

      Any thoughts on where Andhra Pradesh and Telangana fit into all this?

      1. @Hoju

        Kerala has already achieved what the other bears want to – high HDI. What colour cat matter if it…..! Each one of these states have the innate confidence to stand out with an identity (Vegetarianism, Dravidianism, Reds etc.) which is a sign of vigor in intellectual life.

        Karnataka and Maharashtra stand out because they are hegemons who have successfully grappled with modernity and rewritten their societal codes. They are the most cosmopolitan because of this self-realisation. Almost all the zeitgist of a modern Indian comes out of these two states – market capitalism, urban culture, IT industry, Dalit consciousness, movie mania, cricketing excellence etc.

        I work and live in the blue banana – I know what you mean! For me, undivided AP is out of the contention as they have a dysfunctional identity problem that is still not resolved by the state’s partition. Remnants of Maoism complicate the picture.

        1. @Ugra

          Great post. And I agree with the innate confidence to stand out with an identity.

          I feel though that sometimes the Indian RW wants nothing more than to crush that confidence, and any sort of standing out.

          Here’s a typical Indian RW mentality:


          “All sensitive Border States should be converted to Union Territory

          JnK (Already Done)
          Arunachal Pradesh

          Both external & internal threats will be neutralised”

          This confidence and standing out is perceived as a threat.

  9. and free vaccines for all !!. it will be freebies till the u p election. full pass in class 10th and 12th who will be first time voters. next will be some more money transfers. already free ration is announced till diwali (i.e nov). now tax cuts for middle classes. acche din all the way. modi looks like a santa claus. is he an indira gandhi with a beard??!!

    1. This is a masterclass in political management. Vaccines were free always (as for all other diseases) but the Govt. let the states do their clueless bumbling for 6 weeks and stepped in now to reinforce the image of chaos vs order. I guess both SII and BB have stockpiled or removed production bottlenecks – so they now have a large stock ready for a push from June 21.

      Covaxin also bagged a Brazilian order. So it looks like they waited for the production bottleneck to clear.

      1. @Ugra
        There was also a supreme court order about giving free vaccine to all adults so it’s not clear if this was preplanned or not

      2. I think it wasn;t that pre planned, but more oportunism. Sooner or later later the centre had to step in some capacity. Mostly agree with Ugra here.

        This instance will now be used for the latter part of Modi’s tenure to centralize further and devolve almost zilch to states. Having made a mockery of the vaccine drive, the states will be now be squeezed further. No one really has patience or nuance for all this ‘centralized-procurement-but-decentralized-distribution’ type ideas peddled by our commies and lol-berterians.


        “This scenario will be used in future as an example for why not to devolve certain powers to the state! Can be both used in good spirit or ofcourse for political expediencies.”

        In India its mostly black and white, and in this vaccine drive case, it will be whose picture will be on that vaccine certificate. Its the one who paid for the vaccine.

  10. Hey Razib do you know about any upcoming studies regarding South Asian ancient dna other than stuff from keezhadi and aditanallur.

  11. Starting to hear Lakshadweep referred to as an Indian occupied territory along side Kashmir by progressive South Asian Desis.

    What happened?

  12. brahmins in u p were not that warm towards yogi. now that jitendra prasada has joined, this may become better for bjp on the brahmin front.
    law and order ( u p model of shooting down criminals) and infrastructure ( really better highways) will help yogi win this time.

      1. Well when push comes to shove all this rivalry will be dust and they are will fall in line to vote for bjp. They know there is no political party apart from bjp who serves their interest better.

        Everything else is shadow boxing.

      1. He said he wants to have “consensual hate sex”.

        Imagine a nameless RW troll account saying that they want to do the same with LWers.
        Don’t think I’ll have to explain how many LWers will have a meltdown and start generalizing. Will surely start throwing around words like rapists and what not (probably already done this).
        And keep in mind that there were 1000s of ACTUAL people in the CH.

        I personally don’t care about this episode, LWers can say whatever they want to in their own circlejerk. But the point is that these hypocrites wouldn’t accept the other side of the aisle saying the same.

        Leftism in India is just a shitshow of hypocrisy. All they do is use the term “liberal” for whatever their garbage agenda is. RW also has its fair share of hypocrisy, but they’re much clear about their likes and dislikes and most of their behaviour is expected.

        And I’d technically be classified as a liberal myself (fine with homosexuality, equal pay, don’t care what women wear, women should have the right to abort etc.), but I’m just tired of these leftists pretending to be something they’re not. If you’re gonna advertise that you’re the better group then act like it.

      2. The way supporters are mostly divided sanghis would definitely fall under the hot category in india , atleast more than left – liberal folks.

        Right wing in india is disproportionate upper caste and North Indian. So by Indian standards fair and “good looking”. The only catchment area left wing has in north India is Muslims; Punjabi and bengali. And even in latter 2 folks it’s 50-50.

        On south u folks know already about the whole dark-fair debate, and even there it’s mostly Brahmins who make into movie industry ( and seen as desirable) so a high degree of being conservative/right wing.

    1. Just saw this entire argument on Twitter.
      It gets better. Apparently the guy who said all this is gay, and so now his buddies are trying to downplay/justify it because nothing was said against women.
      And they’re also trying to gaslight people for calling him out, saying that everyone’s just harassing a gay man.
      They also tried to explain that he wanted to have “consensual hate sex” with RWers.

  13. Example of how scary the Indian RW is:


    “All sensitive Border States should be converted to Union Territory

    JnK (Already Done)
    Arunachal Pradesh

    Both external & internal threats will be neutralised”

    It was clear from the outset that the RW would want to implement Modi’s designs on Kashmir to their even greater enemies, namely, Bengal, Kerala, TN.

    1. Disagree with this right now. But if things continue the way they are in Kerala (and maybe WB too, if illegal immigration isn’t curbed), I wouldn’t mind this in about a decade. Even you’d probably change your mind if things escalated too much.

      News from 4 days ago (they’re still verifying the man’s identity, but you’ve probably read dozens of such cases in the past anyway)-

      How long until these terrorists shift their gaze towards India? Would be their easiest target.

      And this isn’t just what everyone else thinks, Mallus themselves are waking up to this-

      There is a serious problem which Kerala is ignoring because the narrative is tilted towards preventing BJP from coming to power at all costs. This is helping in the short term. However in the long term this may prove counter productive and will bite us in the ass when we realize that we have a huge Jihadi problem.

      Mallus don’t really acknowledge this issue offline though, too proud a people (know many Mallus and a very close friend is a Mallu Christian ).

      Also, don’t know where you got TN from. Guy tweeting mentioned twice that he doesn’t want this to be extended to TN.

      1. @IsThisReal

        Many in the comments want TN to be Kashmir’d too.

        But this is exactly why people oppose the authoritarian RW. Electoral losses are met with authoritarian responses to destroy democracy. Typical of them to attack democracy in India’s highest HDI state, while the poorest and most lawless regions of the world are given faux democracy since they kneel and bow to Modi.

        There are ways to tackle terrorism without going full Kashmir on a state. It was only a matter of time though. When I had said they would pull a Kashmir on Kerala, Bengal, and TN — states regarded as greater enemies by the Indian RW than Kashmir — people thought it was an exaggeration. Several months later now the Indian RW is clamoring for it. They will not allow any state that has any opposition to Modi to live freely and democratically.

        Two of those goldilocks states you mentioned will no longer exist soon enough.

    2. Arunachal became a full fledged state in 1987 it was a union territory before. Punjab was under emergency post 1984. Jammu kashmir is bifurcated and made a union territory in 2019 due to increased terrorism. Kerala was created from Madras based on linguistic idea in 1956, Tulu people in Kerala are demanding separate state with their population in Kerala TN and Karnataka. West Bengal is facing similar problems of Gorkhaland in Eastern Siliguri corridor in Darjeeling area since 1970s. Vidarbha is asking for separate state in Maharashtra. These problems “predated” when you started using “RW Indians” as vocabulary. And please read the constitution of India Article 3- The Parliament can alter the boundaries and new states from the existing states. When Indira Gandhi in her tenure from 1966 to 1985 created many states from Punjab Haryana Himachal Meghalaya Sikkim Tripura. Rajiv Gandhi created Arunachal Mizoram Goa and Vajpayee created Jharkhand Chattisgarh and Uttarakhand along with Bodoland Territorial Region in 2000s and Manmohan Singh created Telangana in 2013 “RW Indians” didn’t exist then but suddenly in 2021 “RW Indians” are deemed to be toxic because they are saying the same things that “LW Indians” said during the period predating 2014 for the related issues.

  14. https://www.theweek.in/news/biz-tech/2021/06/08/india-moving-towards-chinese-model-on-internet-control-says-cloudflare-ceo.html

    Given the tsunami of deplatformings and social media bans by US companies against ideological deviants, combined with the imprisonment of Assange, it is hard to take these pronouncements seriously except as a sign of panic that India may yet break free from US dominion. I’ve often pointed out that the Modi government – despite nationalist posturing – has increased India’s servility and submissiveness towards the US. Perhaps this is slowly changing.

  15. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2021/jun/10/socialism-marrying-mamta-banerjee-yes-its-set-to-happen-in-tamil-nadu-this-sunday-2314389.html

    “Socialism marrying Mamta Banerjee? Yes, it’s set to happen in Tamil Nadu this Sunday!

    Speaking to The New Indian Express, Mohan said, “My father and grandfather are communists. From the age of 18, I started participating in protests organised by the CPI. Later, I became a full-time worker of the CPI. Due to the Soviet Union breaking up into many countries, many said communism is dead. This made me upset and even before my marriage I decided to name my sons or daughters in a way that reflects the ideology. Three sons were born to me and I named them Communism, Leninism and Socialism respectively. Most of our comrades named their sons Lenin or Marx. But I don’t know whether anyone has been named Socialism.”

    1. one should give qudos to the tamils. i had a colleague named gorbachev and his brother was Khrushchev . apparently their grand father was a communist. i have seen karl marxs, jinnah, of course gandhi (or kanthi!!??) . hopefully some day we will have modi and amit shah.

      1. “hopefully some day we will have modi and amit shah.”

        That will be last day of the Dravidians

  16. On the whole debate whether Sanghis are hot or not


    “People: Traditionally more dark-skinned, Dravidians have been endlessly mocked and ridiculed even within ourselves. In 90s and 00s South Indian cinema saw a great influx of fair skinned actresses from the North replacing South Indian actresses. This still continues.”

    “But this is entirely the choice of South Indian people to import North Indian culture and pop stars. North Indians never imposed it. The South Indians brought them over.

  17. I know we’ve had a lot of HDI-related discussions in the past, but I tried to make a nice HDI map for the Indian subcontinent. Feel free to use the picture wherever. Not sure how I can post the picture of the map instead of just a link to it. But if someone wants to do that, please do so.


    I’ve noted some of the caveats in a blog post below.


  18. Gender divide closes further: As many women as men for BCom

    The underlying social forces in India are unquestionably geared towards liberalism. We’ve seen the same movement towards greater acceptance of LGBT. Yet rising nationalism is not in discord with this, which is a common misconception. Nationalism is perfectly compatible with social liberalism. Many proponents of Hindutva have pointed out that there is a much greater emphasis on caste equality than outsiders seem to understand, to take but one example. There are countless others.

    1. Every brand of nationalism needs to be examined on its own terms, and Hindutva does have socially liberal aspects to it. But the absolute hatred for any differences in political opinion is concerning. Many Indian RW openly advocating for shooting down Bengalis after the Bengal election; many others advocating for ‘pulling a Kashmir’ (i.e., destroying federalism and democracy and replacing it with imperial rule from Delhi). Being more accepting of differences in political opinion and democratic results would be a great next step for Hindutva.

    2. As if these stats matter to “liberals”.

      They’re more interested in dumb statements made by dumb politicians than actual stats or policies.

      1. This are interested in catering to radicalislamofacist allies and other corrupt leftists

    3. @principia
      Agree with your intial statements about nationalism and social liberalsim. Regarding hindutva and caste equality/caste blindness, however, this is predicated on the culture of certain castes being normative to all hindus. There is a deluded pretense of generosity that ” everyone can be a brahmin now” if they show the quality. Problem is, most people don’t and never have wanted to be. Just like the hindu nationalists reject the deracinated lutyen’s set as role models, the rest of hindudom isn’t enthralled with the castes seen to lead the BJP.

      1. “enthralled with the castes seen to lead the XYZ.”

        What about Banerjees, Bandyopadhyaya, Roy, Trivedi, Adhikari and Bakshi?

        or you mean Mukherjee, Nehru, Aiyer, Sibal, Krishna, Joshi, Rao, Bansal or Deshmukh?

      2. We can bitch all we want, but hating each other is not the solution, fucking (via inter-caste marriages) each other is the only way. And honestly, when was the last time a Ahir in village married a Paasi? Why blame our problems on some castes?

        1. @bhimrao
          The jaatis that form the vote block and the leadership are understood to be different. On the street level or in the cultural wars, people have an idea who wins and loses. No one said anything about blame, moreover, caste competition isn’t the primary reason for misery in India. It contrubutes to low social trust, but contempt for labour is at the root of it all. Also, the social forces behind the attentuation of caste categories are greater than party politics and have been underway for a century. Wouldn’t give too much credit to the current lot.

      3. Is there any evidence that BJP is any more led by Brahmin-Baniyas than other parties that are not caste specific?

        There is a deluded pretense of generosity that ” everyone can be a brahmin now” if they show the quality. Problem is, most people don’t and never have wanted to be.

        Seems to me this kind of argument is mostly forwarded by non-Brahmin Hindutva supporters rather than Brahmins themselves.

        1. @prats
          Parties like JD(S) , NCP , DMK and YSRCP don’t seem to be so at all. Anything national, across the politcal spectrum, would likely have brahmin leadership from INC to BJP to CPI, as they have trans-regional social capital.
          > Seems to me this kind of argument is mostly forwarded by non-Brahmin Hindutva supporters rather than Brahmins themselves
          hmmm, yes, sounds about right

          1. Is CPI or congress Brahmin lead though? I mean u would need to be a Hindu to be a Brahmin. And CPI is CPI so…

            Ok congress isn’t there leadership more parsee and foreign than Brahmin. I have met hardcore Brahmins who vote for only Brahmin candidates and they would rather vote for an OBC than congress.

  19. There’s this company called Infra.Market that’s raised a funding round recently and is the talk of the town.

    Interestingly, it’s a business operating in the brick and mortar world but has a Bong founder. @Saurav might find it interesting.

  20. mukul roy’s ghar wapasi, well makes bengal politics resemble all india pattern. mamata has been accused of destroying all ideological positions in bengal politics. bjp will be seen as secular, in the real sense.

    1. BJP implosion in Bengal is a classic example of how artifical growth in a non/less Hindu region can be quickly reversed as well.

  21. https://openthemagazine.com/feature/federalism-unvaccinated/

    “ The issue, however, is not one about vaccination but the abuse of “federalism” as an idea and turning it into an ideology that comes close to separatist sentiment. In an earlier age, separatism was based on religion, language and other features that marked off India as a near-ungovernable country. Now, it is being driven by political ambitions.

    In the process, however, the foundations of India as a nation-state are being hollowed out. Politically, at the level of the states, and intellectually, by disaffected intellectuals who are in a symbiotic relationship with local leaders. The process ought to be ended decisively by putting “federalism” in its place: as a mere system of distributing local public goods and nothing more. A pandemic is a good reminder that much worse can happen to India. India needs to be vaccinated against the ideology of “federalism.”

  22. The snail-race to complete high speed railway is on between India and the US. California’s rail is expected in 2029 while Indian project has now been delayed by five years!

    Even though Americans are pathetic at this, my money is still on them.

    I saw the new Alstom Prima WAG12 in India, Basically two separate locomotives strapped together. 12000 HP. Something fresh to look at after 25 years of WAG 9s.

    What the fuck do people at Chitaranjan, DLW and ICF do? How much gardening competition and vishwakarma-pujas can they possibly participate in before making even one bogie design on their own?

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