87 thoughts on “Open Thread – Brown Pundits – 2/11/2022”

  1. How much of the shape rotators vs wordcel debate is just a subterranean passive-aggressive attack on journalists by techies? The media has been nonstop attacking tech for better part of the last decade and Big Tech has been completely crestfallen.

    Their response seems to be “haha you’re poor”, which frankly isn’t a bad line of attack but it still exposes the fact that Big Tech is remarkably bad at politics despite all that wealth. Is that really something to brag about?

  2. ‘Motivated’: MEA Dismisses US Envoy’s Critical Tweet on Hijab Issue
    Rashad Hussain had written that religious freedom “includes the ability to choose one’s religious attire”. India had earlier taken up cases of Sikhs and Hindus in the US, when were targeted in attacks.

    What were the Indian Americans political groups doing when the US decided to create an envoy for religious freedom? The US is using allegations of infringement of religious freedom to browbeat regional powers.


    1. US is sponsoring evangelicals across the world in the garb of religious freedom along with the Anglophones. It’s better they should keep their mouth shut because I see anti american waves back in India.

  3. I wonder what would happen if one introduced a rule that 40% of all politicians should hold stem degree. All social science depts should be forced to employ game theory to make all their arguments. History and everything. How would things change, would they be the same or different.

    I see the hijab debate as largely a product of Impotency on part of H’s. Either change constitution, and make things better or fix accountability. What i see is endless whining like some iisc math prof on opindia / twitter endlessly complaining about liberal privilege. And the girls wearning saffron shawls, do they intend to wear it every day?. Or it is just for bargain?. It is not working. The point of power is to correct things. we are better off with a dharmic India, along lines of anglican England. Too much diversity and fake secularists who refuse to bargain because they think they got western press and countries behind their back. Cant bargain with delusional people. Secularism was introduced through emergency, impose another 48 hr emergency. Put opposition in house arrest, give them tea, coffee, samosa and chicken biryani. Change constitution and make it so that it cant be changed again in similar manner. Make it clear, that defending burkhas/ hijabs in school as secularism means, we dont need such things. Make it very clear to western countries, their charities/ ngo funded regime change movement wont be accepted. take over universities and pauperize these activists and cut their funding. And finally, fix fair rules and run the country well. But bjp needs to keep winning next election without performance, so for them, culture wars are good. can use to get its hordes of toads to croak together and whine about liberal privilege.

    1. “Make it very clear to western countries, their charities/ ngo funded regime change movement wont be accepted”

      I wish, Modi is a paper tiger, he cucked out to these stupid khalistanis on Farm Laws. What makes you think he has the balls to take a stand against the West?

  4. “American society. While religious polarization is less pronounced at an individual level, partisan polarization—linked to political preferences both in India and the United States—is rife. However, this polarization is asymmetric: Democrats are much less comfortable having close friends who are Republicans than the converse. The same is true of Congress Party supporters vis-à-vis supporters of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).”


  5. Online channer meme culture has become a cesspool over the last few years, or maybe it was already a cesspool before I knew about it (so I wouldn’t know about the older period) and it became worse since then (as the oldfags would allege). But I do identify with the stuff in this episode, if only a little bit. A term that I use for that broader group is verbaloid. It is important to distinguish between middling overall verbaloids like journos in question and verbaloids in general, as the speakers do with wordcel vs wordchad (or something like that. What would the nonverbal analogue to wordcels be? shapelets?). Nonverbaloids could have worked away making new things forever but without someone to integrate all of those technologies together, society wouldn’t have changed on its own. Both need to work together.

      1. Wordcel seems to refer to middling ability + verbal orientation. But with people more removed from the population average, the difference in subtest scores is greater. Or at least thats what I have heard.

        1. Yeah. I think so. Perhaps, I am a bit uncommon. My standadardized test scores were pretty similar in both. Maybe a bit better in quantitative. Then again quantitative and spatial intellect are diff but more correlated than verbal vs. spatial. It’s an interesting meme.

          1. I have never been professionally tested so idk what the exact formats of the reports are. I have seen one or two sample reports online (one was a John Doe sample thing, and another was of a real girl with a big gap). What was your format like?

          2. Hard to compare to adult one. We took it in elementary school for a special program for middle school kids. I didn’t get in the one for elementary school. We took that test in 1st grade. I got into the one from a 5th grade test. Maybe I was borderline? Other tests like SATs, MCATs, etc and classes wise I was always pretty even. Maybe a bit lean quantitative? I took the SATs in 7th grade too for John Hopkins CTY program (gifted youth). I was pretty even then too. I barely made it btw. But I qualified to take both math and non math classes for it.

          3. Yes. I took in 7th grade and scored around a 1550 (550 across all 3 sections).

            My first practice again was in late 10th grade. I got a 2000 (650 each section ish). I fucked up the PSAT and got a 219 (very few questions compared to actual SAT so scores could fluctuate a lot). Took a bunch of practice tests and got more and more familiar with the test.

            First take early 11th grade was a 2270 (around 750 in each section). Took it again and got something similar. Took a 3rd time because of my own neurosis (wanted to score above a 2300) and got a 2330.

            The SAT is more studyable than people think. It isn’t that great of an IQ test, at least when I took it. I know the data shows this isn’t true and that prep courses hardly move scores. But prep courses teach often in a shitty way. Another thing though is that someone with a good potential has a much higher ceiling. Take someone who has read a lot as a kid and is doing calculus in the 11th grade or sooner, their potential should be quite high.

          4. Practice effect can impact just about any IQ test because as good as they could be, they aren’t perfect. Have you ever taken something like Stanford Binet or one of the Wechsler tests with a psychologist?

        2. No only school IQ tests in elementary school. Tests in adulthood have been all standardized tests.

          Yeah but the SAT is especially bad IQ test. By the time I took it, MENSA had stopped accepting it. I think my elementary school IQ tests were the best..I remember stuff like digit span like elements vaguely.

          I really don’t know a single person who has taken a formal adult IQ test. You have to pay out of pocket and it’s a big time investment with little benefit. Most people who do well within high tier professions just tend to assume their IQ is good enough.

          1. I don’t know if it is especially bad but some people have alleged that more recent SAT has gotten worse than older SAT like the pre-90s.

        3. Practice impacts it. But I think ceiling of one’s score definitely correlates with IQ. Interestingly at the gifted camps I went to, I met similar kids from all over.

          Because I barely qualified per my numbers, I thought I would be on the slow side. But even in those places, I held my own fine. The few years I went, I tended to do a better than the average, though certainly not anywhere near the best (we took classes and had actual tests).

          I think for most jobs, outside of the extremely abstract ones, as long as one has like a 120 IQ with good openness, consciousness, and extroversion, success shouldn’t be an issue. Medicine is probably among the less gloaded elite tier professions, despite high average IQs.

        4. For elementary school test,
          Some shape rotation, analogies, numerical patterns, digit span, memory stuff with photos (one page has 10 photos. You memorize them. Next page they show 12 photos. Pick the two not on the previous page type of stuff (this was on the 1st grade one. I didn’t even understand the instructions well then).

          But yeah SAT test prep works. But it works best for kids with a strong foundation already, probably from a combination of genetics and good childhood education. For some kids in my town, it hardly changed anything. For others, scores skyrocketed.

          I wish there were good online ones. But they purportedly all suck.

        5. Yes it has. They removed some of the more gloaded content. Hence why MENSA stopped accepting it.

          Basically the ACT came out and was more of an achievement test than an aptitude one. It was more studyable and less abstract so parents liked it and some schools even mandated it. The SAT had to compete, so they went the route of removing some of the aptitude elements. It was still ok in the early 2010s. But the most recent edition looks a lot like the ACT.

        6. They never gave out official results. But your parents got a letter in the summer if you qualified.

          It was called gifted and talented. Idk what cutoff was.

          By similar scores on math and verbal, that’s on other standardized tests like state assessments, SAT, etc.

          I have no idea what my strengths were on the actual IQ test.

          1. Oh so the elementary school test with shape rotation, analogies, numerical patterns, digit span, memory stuff with photos was for the gifted program?

        7. Yes. 1 was done in 1st grade. Another in 5th. Took much of the day, from what I can recall. Gifted school program was that type of test. I qualified for it from 5th grade test.

          For gifted summer program, Johns Hopkins CTY, one had to take the SAT in early 7th grade. Some kids had done like Kumon math and knew Algebra 2 already before sitting for it. I was just in algebra 1 in 7th grade and it was in like October, so my math knowledge was basically pre algebra. You need a certain Math and Verbal set of scores to qualify. I scored similarly in both even then but barely made it requirement wise. But I held my own fine in the gifted summer camps.

          I met some real prodigies there though. Zuckerberg for example is an alumni of that program.

          1. Zucc is probably not the best example to use. Wasn’t Terence Tao included in a John Hopkins youth program as well?

  6. “Figure 5 maps respondents’ states of origin in India. In cases where the respondent identifies with multiple states, both states are counted as a home state. (Hence, the percentages do not add up to 100.) The western state of Gujarat emerges as the most common home state, with 14 percent of respondents calling it their home, followed by Maharashtra (12 percent), Andhra Pradesh (10 percent), and Tamil Nadu (9 percent). Other popular home states include Delhi (9 percent), Punjab (8 percent), and Kerala (7 percent).”

    Hindi Heartland has yet to arrive.

    1. Not a Jagmeet fan in the slightest, but I’m curious – what has he sown that he is now reaping?

  7. India’s Economy Hinges on the Return of Workers Who Fled to Their Villages

    Interesting story from WSJ about Indian workers who left cities during the lockdown and are now content living in their ancestral villages. I’ve read similar stories from Vietnam where factories are having a hard time luring back workers.

    Village life may pay less, but you have your extended family around you and there’s more safety and less stress. As a citydweller in a rich city, I’ve toyed with the idea of the rural simple life myself. In the era of WFH, the allure is all that much greater.

    1. Yeah you have to culturally fit in though. For me in America, it would be hard. I am not a religious Protestant. I don’t hunt or fish. I don’t even eat meat. I don’t care for football. I don’t love country music. I have never shot a gun.

      1. The MSME owners in cities believe after taking a leave village folks don’t show up for their city jobs till all savings are exhausted. Chatth puja, Holi, Diwali, Shiv Ratri … are just excuses for poor folks to see their family as they can’t afford to bring them to cities. No family means no safety nets, no house, no land, no marriage, no networks. I imagine there is a minimum wage below which security derived from job << family. Also, Indian industrial cities are no places for humans to live. All this is the forcing function that will reorganize compensations and working conditions in India.

    1. Khalistan lobby is strong. The group is united and willing to dig in and fight. They are the defintion of strong Asibhya

  8. Indian government should tacitly fund Quebec separatists. Now would be a good time for some action.

    1. An appropriate move would be Modi making a statement expressing concern about trudeau granting himself “emergency powers” in canada as a fellow democratic country.

      Harken back to Indira gandhi’s abuse of emergency powers

      There have been many missed opportunites to call out trudeau’s repeated use of brown face for eg.

  9. modi’s jalandar rally had probably 10 turbanated sikhs including 3 on stage( modi included!!). had never seen such non sikh crowd in punjab. will hindus vote for amrinder++??

    1. Jalandhar city as per the 2011 census is around 75% Hindu, also turbaned Sikhs are most likely only 40-50% of the male Sikh populace. That may be one reason for seeing less Sikhs.

  10. Government surveys in India have not comprehensively covered large farms, understating inequality. Other data from India suggest the top fifth of farms account for 83% of land.

    Changing inequalities in farmland ownership and cultivation have reduced the smallholder or peasant share of food production.

    The study suggests that ‘land grabs’, new laws and policies have enabled large (capitalist) farmers, agribusiness corporations and other commercial entities to control most of the world’s farmland.

    Disparities in government support allowed by World Trade Organization and other trade agreements have enabled large farms in developed countries, like the US, to gain more advantages over relatively uninfluential peasants in the South.


  11. chitra ramakrishna, yogi in himalayas, anand subramanian, some are hinting chidu, bearded modi, wily shah, rigyajsam,
    my head is reeling….!!!

  12. The great grandfather of Alexander Pushkin who is considered by many to be the greatest Russian poet and the founder of modern Russian literature, was an African, Abram Petrovich Gannibal.

    Kidnapped as a child by Ottomans, Gannibal was traded to Russia and presented as a gift to Peter the Great, where he was freed, adopted and raised in the Emperor’s court household as his godson.

    Some British aristocrats descend from Gannibal, including Natalia Grosvenor, Duchess of Westminster, and her sister, Alexandra Hamilton, Duchess of Abercorn. George Mountbatten, 4th Marquess of Milford Haven, a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, is also a direct descendant, as the grandson of Nadejda Mountbatten, Marchioness of Milford Haven.



    1. Don’t understand what’s there in it for either side. Seems Pakistan has its own group of “FTA-RCEP” wallahs just like we have in india.

    1. The interviewer is expecting the teen to to be giddy with excitement about beating Magnus. Instead he is like

      “my mid game was weak, but luckily Magnus moved his queen to E5 so I won if he did E4 it would be a draw”

      Shape rotator for sure. Haha

  13. bommai is fairly ineffective in his supposedly competent sphere of administration, taking all sections together etc.
    he seems to have surrendered the hindutva plank to the sangh parivar.
    did bjp blunder in removing yeddi?

  14. Spot on, I couldn’t have said it better myself –
    The American mil-ind complex and their stooges in the NATO are licking their lips at the prospect of more war and destruction, this time in E Europe. It behooves all sensible countries to distance themselves as far away from this mess as they can, and in this India has acted like a very sensible country.
    “The less power they have in the future, the better the world will be.”

  15. White folks think that talking like retards on things make them sound unbiased, smart and arbiters of morality. Fuckfaces don’t know no one gives a shit about them.

    These journalists and commentators think they themselves or their tax dollars are the reason of Western power. No fuck-face, you did nothing to inherit it.

    This is egged on by coconut-types who hide behind ‘racism’, ‘privilege’ and play silly games to lower their host country’s ‘viveka’ (loosely meaning discernment), hollowing out their confidence, and making them India-like.


    Kenya lecturing Russia at the UN. That is how India would have sounded all those years ago. 😂

    1. What America needs is not less war but less costly war. Look at the policing France pulls off in Africa with little resources. Learn from Iran vis-a-vis Houthis.

      Where is the tact? the finesse? Why so predictable?

  16. Ukraine had 3000 nuclear weapons after the fall of the Soviet Union.

    They gave it all up and came under the ‘West’s protection’.


    1. Budapest memorandum ftw

      Lmfao. It’s going to be even wilder when China invades Taiwan.

      China will take Siberia too

      1. Chinese military will be no match for the Russians, and I don’t see any strategic objective for China in even trying to take Siberia, at least in this century. China is concentrating on Taiwan (which it will attack and annex this very decade). Then they will move their sights on Japan, South East Asia and the Pacific and try to bring them under their sphere of influence and outside the Western sphere.

    2. There was a recent thread on twitter about this. Apparently the launch keys of the nukes were still with Moscow.

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