Open Thread, 2/17/2023, Brown Pundits

Nimrata Nikki Haley is running for President of the United States of American.

1) She’s a donor-class wet dream and a throwback to the pre-Trump Republican party. I don’t think this is going to work, but who knows?

2) It’s America, you do what you want, but not going to lie; Bobby Jindal was always a bit too unctuous in his urge to emphasize his American bonafides. Haley’s biography strikes me as more natural and relatable.

3) I think she may be tapped for VP on identity politics grounds by the Republican party. Interesting VP debate with Kamala Devi Harris.

213 thoughts on “Open Thread, 2/17/2023, Brown Pundits”

  1. Met her once at an event. Had a brief conversation. Seemed nice enough. But I don’t think even she thinks she has a chance at being the nominee. She is definetely running for VP which she has a very good chance.

    On the topic of Nikki Haley and the next YouTube CEO, any idea why Indians are in so many leadership positions while East Asians aren’t. In education and entry level jobs both groups are equally competent but only Indians seem to climb to top positions.

    1. There was a paper on this, South Asians actually face more negative stereotypes and discriminatory attitudes compared to East Asians but are more assertive.

      This assertiveness is more in line with American norms on how leaders should communicate.

      1. Indians take more risk with communication on average and demand more directly. This helps in Western context.

        Argumentative Indian book is decent

      2. Nick Ostler argues in “Empires of the Word” that South Asians have had a talent for / interest in rhetoric going back 2500 years (noted by Greeks at the time and many others since) and he thinks that’s rooted in the structure of the Sanskrit language which lends itself to rhetorical complexity and wordplay more than most others.

    2. > any idea why Indians are in so many leadership positions while East Asians aren’t[?]

      I’ll take a stab at it. I think that the Indians that I’ve met and interacted with basically like their culture more than people of Wast Asian descent, with the exception of Japanese. So this cultural self-respect permeates through all channels of their persona.

      The Chinese and Korean origin people are all “Simons” and “Wendy’s,” and they’re all ernest, very competent, and don’t want to upset the people whom they regard as being their cultural “elder brothers,” who gave them their religion and names. Indians, on the other hand, take initiative, may have better soft skills, and can think calculatingly like dacoits.

    3. East Asians are much more likely to own and operate a wide variety of businesses. I think the more assertive East Asians just tend to have their own independent work.

      The actually assertive Indians typically do not immigrate. They have a lot of avenues in India ranging from business to politics to media to activism.

      Sundar Pichai and Nadella would have finished up as high level managers in L&T, Tata or central secretaries. Dhirubhai Ambani in the US would have been one of the richest people in that country.

  2. the sample HRP0278 from the HarappaWorld spreadsheet is interesting. The user commented on the site and he mentioned that he was full Bangladeshi with roots in Nilphamari and Dinajpur both of which are in Rangpur Division, Bangladesh. My roots can also be traced back to Dinajpur. He also said that he had distant ancestry from Darjeeling which I believe I have as well.. Very interesting guy, but this was from 10 years ago lol he posted all this in 2013 🙁
    He had 18-19% Asian on HarappaWorld and higher on simulated g25 runs on nmonte. He also mentioned that nobody in his family mentioned anything of a foreign origin and they were Bangladeshi through and through for at least 4 origins back at the very least.

    Him and I score similar amounts of Asian, S-Ind and other components lol

    1. Interestingly enough, HRP0278 scores exactly the same as the 2 Assamese Kalita results in the database! He is of Muslim background though, so it seems that it is true that the region is transititionary with Assam one could say. I was thinking about it but his results are the same. Not even anything else.

  3. I thought AGI is not likely in 100 yrs, now it looks likely in 50 yrs, it could even be 5 yrs. My bet that AGI will come before islamic reformation seems to be coming true. There will probably be multiple AGIs as well. Before 2075, we should have sufficiently powerful AIs. In next 25 yrs, we should have robots, specialized or otherwise in multiple areas.

  4. Razib, how many generations and/or years would it have taken for the West Eurasian sub races like EEF, CHG etc. to become genetically distinct from one another? Thank you.

  5. Haley seems to think that she can somewhat use the press as a conventional old-school Republican, which will be her downfall. All the major players are part and parcel of the Democratic Party. They’re going to invoke her as a ward against Trump and DeSantis but then eat her alive the second she becomes too popular.

  6. Nikki will get a lot of votes because she’s so white-adjacent, a corporate stooge, and is a really quite competent. I also see her as THE VP NOMINATION.

  7. Nimrata is doing the Republican grift. One can deduct stays at five star hotels, flying on private jets and meals at expensive restaurants as campaign expenses. She is exploiting the anti-Trump sentiment among Republicans and Democrats to live the good life.

  8. My potentially offensive and controversial take: It is impossible to be “Indian” without belonging to a specific Indian community. Unless you’re from an area where there are enough Indians where there will be enough of any given community, you’ll likely just assimilate completely into Euro-American norms and become a coconut.

    East Asians, on the other hand, are way less siloed. It is easy enough to build a Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese, or Vietnamese community and kids area easily exposed to their culture – so while they’re externally Western, they are internally quite community oriented in their thinking.

    I believe this is why South Asians can get ahead in many situations, while East Asians are excluded from leadership. If Nimrata grew up in California, she’d be much more Sikh, Punjabi, and less palatable for Republican selection.

  9. A diaspora Bangladeshi farmer turned businessman has made the biggest agricultural farm in the UAE apparently. Neat stuff.
    He employs other folks from Bangladesh. He’s at 1:57.

    Very typical Bangladeshi looking folks. Would not be seen as locals and would stand out outside of West Bengal/Assam perhaps. The businessman and the first farmhand(?) looks local Assamese. The 1st is from Barisal, in south-central Bangladesh.

  10. I have been reading random stuff and I came across some interesting articles regarding Assamese separatists. They formed groups like the United Liberation Front of Assam to fight for the liberation of Assam and when there were issues apparently in the 80s and 90s, many top leadesr and cadres migrated to Bangladesh (even though politically they opposed Bengali folks/culture in Assam!).

    Some of the people that left and stayed in Bangladesh for DECADES without arousing suspicion from anyone but the intelligence agencies were Arabinda Rajkhowa(aka Mijanur Rahman Choudhury lol what a standar name), Anup Chetia(Ahmed), Raju Baruah(Anees Ahmed). etc

    Their children grew up in Bangladesh and spoke Bengali and thought they were Bengali and didn’t even know they were Assamese until the identities of their fathers were revealed to them!

    Here is the Anup Chetia guy talking with some Bangladeshi news channel. One small thing he mentions which is seemingly regular and nothing much is the fact that there were Assamese Muslim people who migrated to Bangladesh who they were acquainted with.

    His daughter is actually marrying this Bangladeshi guy named Anirban Chowdhury, they met while she was in school in Dhanmondi. Pretty intriguing stuff. Think that’s why he was there. getting blessing from some of his local friends. Side note, his daughter Bonya Baruah looks very similar to my aunt LOL

  11. Funny to see Soros totter-drunk into the Adani saga and remind everyone that there might be a political angle after all.

    Also why Adani needs to invest more in peddling influence on all continents. Tata and NRN do it with style in the US, as does Reliance in the Middle East. Adani, after depletion, still holds more worth (50bUSD) than Soros (7 bUSD). Elephants getting tickled by mice.

  12. As Pakistan faces a huge economic crisis with dwindling foreign reserves and rising prices of essential commodities, the country’s defence minister has dropped a bombshell, saying that Islamabad has already gone bankrupt and has defaulted on its loans. The minister was speaking at an event in Sialkot. He said that now Pakistan needs to get back on its feet. The statement by the defence minister is sure to worsen the already sullen mood in the country, where there have been fights over essential commodities like flour.

    Feb 19, 2023, 08:14AM ISTSource: Mirror Now

    I am reminded of Hemingway in this exchange between two of his characters.

    “How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.

    “Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually, then suddenly.”

    1. The Pakistan crisis is a problem of the sovereign, not of households. Sovereign debt crisis can be problematic for smaller nations like Sri Lanka who rely on imports for almost all of their food and fuel. It is less likely to be an issue for countries like Pakistan, which do have significant capacity to grow food and decent natural resources.

      The crisis might be an issue in the long term due to the reduction it causes in savings and investment rates, which are already low in Pakistan.

      None of this has any bearings on India’s concerns about Pakistan, which are centered on security. Our only option in the medium term is to make it as difficult as possible for Pakistan to launch terror attacks in India.

    1. If interested can circulate and ask Sri Lankans to send their raw data file. At least one person, if they can download their raw data file from 23andMe.

  13. Here is an excerpt from ‘Caste-based Discrimination in South Asia: A Study of Bangladesh’ by Iftekhar Uddin Chowdhury regarding some of the latter groups.

    Most Dalits, particularly the untouchables among the Hindus in Bangladesh, are the descendants of Indians from Bihar, Uttar Pradesh (Kanpur, Hamirbag, and Jobbalpur), Andhra Pradesh and many other parts like Gourakpur, Chapra, Uriya, Maddaparpur, Baliha, Patna, Motihari, and Bhagalpur. From the inception of setting up the capital in Dhaka by Islam Khan during Mughal regime in 1608, sweepers were appointed for cleaning activities. It is a common opinion that they had been brought largely by the British colonial regime to provide menial services for them since 1830s. They have been popularly known as ‘Methor’ (derived from Persian word Mihtar’ literaly meaning ruler/prince) that signifies degradation and disgust. (Asaduz Zaman 2001). The major Hindu Dalits include Bashpor (bury dead body and speak Bhojpuri and Hindi), Dom (bury dead body and help postmortem and speak Bhojpuri), Hadi/Hela (sweeper and speak Telegu), Domer (Sweeper/cleaner speak Jabbalpuri and Hindi), Lalbegi/Vulmiki (sweeper/cleaner speak Urdu and Hindi), Kolu (traditional oil presser and speak Bangla), Pasi (collector of palm and date juice and speak Bhojpuri), Risi /Tanner (shoe/leather worker and speak Bangla), Muchi/Chamar (shoe and leather worker and speak Hindi), Harijon/Methor (sweeper/cleaner and speak Jabbalpuri and Hindi), Harijon/methor (sweeper/cleaner and speak Telegu), Mala (tea garden worker/sweeper and speak Telegu), Madiga (sweeper/tea garden worker/drum beater and speak Telegu), Sabari (sweeper and speak Telegu), Chakli (washer men and speak Telegu), Jaladas (fishermen and speak Bangla), Bede (healing and entertainer with snake/monkey etc. and speak Bangla), Sutradhar (carpenter and speak Bangla), Karmakar (blacksmith and speak Bangla), Kulal/Kuar/Kumor (potter and speak Bangla), Jugi (bamboo work and speak Bangla), Napit (barber and speak Bangla), Sharnakar (goldsmith and speak Bangla), Goala (milk seller and speak Bangla), Dhopa ( washer men and speak Bangla), Bainna Bede (food collector after harvest and speak Bangla), Mali (gardener/cleaner and speak Bangla), Masuwara (pig rearing and speak Bangla), Tati (weaver and speak Bangla), Mushaheries (mice and eel eater), Dholak (drum beater) and so on.

    Interesting stuff and explains a lot from what I have seen.


    I genuinely think he finds old racist British descriptions to be titillating. The guy is aroused by old presuppositions that support his confirmation biases. He is very careful to just selectively mention those which hold groups in the regard he tends to see them in. He then thinks he is being clever by saying “but don’t take this stuff seriously.” His bigotry fools no one. Everyone saw through his shanenigans when he posted the map with absolutely horrendous G25 fits. He is the epitome of motivated reasoning. A person only fueled by ideology and propaganda. Reason serves those purposes for him. Truth means little because either by conscious or unconscious belief, he is too obstinate to actually have facts shape his views, rather seeming them only has tools for his garden of hateful heuristics.


    This is not the first time I have read in newspapers that the nation is optimistic, but this is the first time I am taking part in it. I did not consider India’s future bright after Pokhran, or during the tech boom from 1998 to 2000, or when India was apparently “shining”, or when Tata Steel bought Corus, which was the largest Indian acquisition at the time.

    What was the big deal in exploding a bomb, that too one we did not invent? In fact, what I saw in the rejoicing of the Pokhran tests was a deep sense of cultural inferiority of some Indians who had migrated to the West; they were the ones who were the most ecstatic. I was unmoved by “India shining” because in my 20s, India was not shining for me, nor did it for the millions who conveyed this message at voting booths.

    But today, the economic optimism around me has a calm certainty about it, despite the classical fears and uncertainties in the lives of working people. Away from a few dismal professions, all of which are in the media, people are preparing to thrive. They are ready for an age of political stability provided by a right-wing government that reflects the provincial practicality of a majority of new Indians. They are preparing for an age of economic opportunities, of widespread adoption of the internet and the smart phone, a dramatic increase in retail bets on the stock market in the form of mutual funds. And, of course, a boom in air travel.

  16. Audacity of Indian Americans I swear haha. Most of us only reached America’s shores in the last thirty years and we think we have earned the right to helm the ship. We’re at least a century away before we can even consider going for the President. Our ethnic political clout is still grassroots, heck even Italian Americans who have been here since the late 19th century haven’t given it a go. Need to slow our roll a bit.

        1. Yeah I wasn’t insulting him or trolling him or making fun of him. I was laughing because his username was a good one, cuz it was a reference to a cult in America called the Branch Davidians and how it was connected to Waco.

          Saurav, you should learn to read or just stay in your lane and not say anything. You’re clueless.

          1. Oh sure, will remember to stay within my lane, especially next time, when we talking anything remotely Indian… 🙂

    1. Twenty years after an Irishman couldn’t get a fucking job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace.

  17. one always thought rakhi sawant’s marriage as a joke and a propaganda thing. looks like it is serious, sad and farce. adil is a real leach, very much unlike a typical mysorean. i always thought that we was taken on a ride, looks otherwise now.
    really sad.


    Seattle City Council to ban caste discrimination.

    Look your not going to stop such laws. In an average person’s mind, why would anyone oppose prohibition of “X” discrimination unless they do in fact discriminate based on “X”. This is how all the anti-racial, sex, age etc discrimations law were pushed through in the past. Accusations of anti-Hinduism won’t do anything lmao. The wealthiest religious demographic in the country makes for poor victims. And American elites are not sympathetic to religion. The only ones they were sympathetic to were Islam and perhaps Judaism and even that sympathy is going down the drain these days.

    1. They ran away from India, now here too they find it being applied to them. What are they going to do?. Run or stay and find a way out.

  19. My fantasy (a nightmare perhaps to many):

    Nikki and Vivek are on the GOP ticket, in either order.

    Kamala and Pramila are on the Democratic ticket.

    America will then be part of India, fulfilling the age old dream of the Aryans! 🙂

      1. Have you been around here much, and are familiar with the genetic literature? “Dravidians” have a fair amount of “Aryan” in them too.

        Anyway, it was meant to be a joke.

        1. well actually no!
          kamala’s iyer mother is a full ‘aryan’ as per the current ‘science’ in dravida nadu.
          pramila’s father is a menon, who might not be comfortable calling himself a dravidian,
          vivek is posing to ba a ‘ low caste’. !!!

  20. March Madness is round the corner, i.e. Big Match (School Cricket, against traditional rivals).

    The clip below is from the Royal Thomian, purportedly the longest annual school cricket (143rd this year 2023) and the second longest after the Ashes.

    I am a third gen from my paternal side and second gen from my maternal side in the best school of the two.

    Anyway, this is the Stallion Tent (I am a member). where middle aged (50’s) and old geezers (like me 64 and plus) become school boys.

    1. Do you have a hypothesis about what happened to Sri Lankan cricket ? They have been getting weaker every year since Mahela and Sangakara retired.

      1. Too much interference by politicians.
        Because its big money the politicians want their chaps to be involved.

  21. The local language of Rangpur, referred to as the “anchalik-bhasha”, called Rangpuriya/Rajbanshi. Transitional with the language of the Assamese. My parents can speak this and I can understand it without the subtitles in prope/”shuddo” Bangla.

    Bhawaiya is also a traditional type of folk song common to North Bengal/Assam.

    1. In India there is a movement among some Rajbanshis to have their own Indian state carved out of West Bengal. They argue that many Indian states were created on the basis of ethnolinguistic differences and they have a distinct language and are a distinct group and therefore deserve a state as well.

      What is the relationship between the Rajbanshis and Bengalis? Just a dialect? Largely one and the same? Or distinctive and different?

      1. Hoju,
        Yeah it’s a bit complicated I think. From what I’ve seen, it seems most of them have adopted Bengali/Assamese identities and have assimilated into these respective societies, for the most part.
        Former Bangladesh president Muhammad Ershad was from the Nashya Shaikh community and he was born in Cooch Behar and these were people who were referred to as the Koch from long ago and they became known as the Rajbanshi Muslims, a part of them at least. They made up 23% of the population of Cooch Behar in 1891 so they were pretty significant.
        Abbasuddin Ahmed was another person of relevance in regards to this. He was a bhawaiya exponent, a kind of folk singing native to Rangpur, Cooch Behar and Assam and he was born in Cooch Behar too. His daughter is Ferdausi Rahman. Forget about being 18% Asian like most Rangpur folks, she looks more than 50% Asian.
        Another thing is that there is clear genetic similarity in these regions. I’ve done runs on many folks, these are private samples, with simulated k36 coordinates and there is definite a lot of connections.
        Frankly, those people them Rajbongshis should definitely be given their own state if they’re asking for it.

    1. In economic matters, absolute comparisons between India and China matter little since their economy is seven times ours in size. A better metric is FDI as %age of GDP, where China’s decline is clear to see.

      China was the premier destination for international capital for nearly two decades. India, not so much. Our growth is mostly based on internal consumption (not a bad of thing) with a tadka of remittances and software/IT exports.

      1. international capital often equates to capital from the west.
        Chinese (and Russian) capital etc is hyped as a debt trap. (eg Sri Lanka and Ethiopia)

        To a great extent foreign capital often means change in laws and rules to favor the capital.

        China and India are unique in that they can dictate the rules. Because of their huge populations, they cab dictate the rules. The capital salivates at the prospect of making a dollar profit/year by selling to the local economy. Thats a billion dollars a year, nothing to sneeze at. Specially China because it is a unified country, by language, so no necessity for ads in different languages. Also dont have to deal with the vagaries of different party ideals in a democracy

        The Chinese knew the game from the start (40 years ago), they wrested technology transfer more than share of profits. The long game.T

      2. I would add that Capital loves Dictatorships and Autocrats. A stable environment as long as dictatorships last. Also just need to deal with “one” person. In contrast in democracy need to deal with different people down the line. In the west that is codified into various regulations, eg environmental, hiring of certified workers, property tax etc which means money paid along the line.

        That was the case with the Rajapakses, if they gave the OK, smooth sailing after that. No necessity to negotiate and bribe down the line to the peon.

  22. I am pretty sure that others have noticed/said this before… it is amusing that the intellectual and political heirs of Protestant rebellion against papal authority are now busy issuing indulgences on democratic behavior to other countries.

    The path to modi victory in 24 is far from assured. With top honcho coming out openly, the overt and covert attacks will only increase and test the nation’s resolve.

    1. Given that ‘24 outcome could go either way, I hope modi/bjp leave behind some anchors to stage an eventual comeback. One aspect is the narrative shaping. Towards this end, a parliamentary resolution regarding foreign interference in IN politics should be considered in latter half of the year. Preferably a joint session with all pomp and ceremony. The wording should be such that no reasonable party should be able to oppose without unmasking themselves as foreign stooges.

  23. Looks a lot like where I live. No wild coconut trees though, wild elephants destroy them. Coconut trees in Sri Lanka imply human habitation and trees owned and protected by people.

    If you have never tried Scotch Bonnet chillies (Capsicum chinense), try it out. Available in the US around areas where Jamaican and Caribbean peoples live. In Sri Lanka very similar called “nai miris”, i.e. cobra chilli.

    Scoville Heat Units
    Scotch Bonnet……….100,000 to 350,000
    Habanero………………150,000 to 575,000
    Birds Eye (Kochi) …..50,000 to100,000 (Tabasco pepper)
    jalapeno…………………….2,000 to 8,000

    From wiki
    The Scotch bonnet has a sweeter flavor and stouter shape, distinct from its habanero relative with which it is often confused, and gives jerk dishes (pork/chicken) and other Caribbean dishes their unique flavor. Scotch bonnets are mostly used in West Africa, West Indian, Sri Lankan, and Maldivian cuisines and pepper sauces

    Catching and Cooking Crab with Jamaican Family

  24. Laos. Elephant and demising.
    Almost 50 years since the end of the Vietnam war, Laos still has unexploded bombs.
    Between 2011 and 2012 they found 15,000 bombs Thats almost 20 bombs found per day, even after 50 years since the war ended.

    From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than 2.5M tons of ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing sorties—equal to a planeload of bombs every eight minutes, 24 hours a day, for nine years – making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history.

    Thank goodness we in SL did not have the US directly involved in our civil war.

    Laos, the land of the golden triangle | Roads of the impossible

  25. So according to Varna classification…

    Republican – Nikki Haley is a shudra
    Democrat – Kamala Harris is a brahmin.

    What percentage of Americans would know this ?

      1. Well technically since they left Indian subcontinent they become Mleccha

        Functionally also mleccha since caste doesn’t factor into their lives.

        1. Wouldn’t say ‘leaving subcontinent’ makes Mleccha. Number of traders used to travel, still maintaining there Varna status. Its mostly Brahmins who had ‘leaving subcontinent’ taboo on them.

    1. thewarlock re:that infedility article

      Holy shit lmaoo that is some truly appalling and truly cucked bullshit. It doesn’t surprise me though, a large part of the word is extremely gynocentric and just caters to females and their whims.

  26. Haley will be VP of DeSantis. She believes American exceptionalism and that America has a great future moving forward. She is Woke’ worst nightmare. Yes, she does cozy up a bit too much to Neocons, but we saw her anti globalist streak in the UN. She is pro democracy and calls out China. She even pushes for India to be in the UNSC, even when she was less politically relevant. She also balanced critiquing Trump and not upsetting him, a display of emotional stability masterclass. Hopefully, she becomes Madam President one day.

  27. javed akhtar knew where he was going and what he would do there. it is not that, his plane on way to antarctica was force landed in pak. he had a good time in pak and as an after thought before leaving just threw an anti pak remark as a risk cover policy, when he would be asked questions in ‘hindu india’.
    looks too cleaver by half.


    Few points

    ‘But the idea that caste discrimination is pervasive in the US is a manufactured narrative by a few activists, woke Indians, and useful non-Indian idiots who have never seen a social justice cause they could say no to (also some frog-nazis who just hate Indians on racial/ethnic competition grounds). Many of the “data” on caste discrimination comes from Equality Labs, an activist organization that used “snowball sampling.” That means the survey went out to people in the Equality Labs network.

    When Paragh Agrawal became CEO of Twitter frog-Nazis, brown anti-caste SJWs started decrying Brahin supremacy. The problem is Agrawal is a clear non-Brahmin Bania name. It would be like people assuming Ron DeSantis is of Mayflower stock. Yes, they’re that stupid.’

    And to the most important part

    ‘Sawant is a socialist, and she believes in social justice. Her family’s background is Tamil Brahmin, like Kamala Harris’ mother.’

    Always the Heretic. Less-Hindu be less Hindu, always…

    1. All Kshama Sawant has to do is burn the Ramcharitmanas like a good Gangetic OBC. Then our Gungadin will call her a real Hindu.

      1. According to urban dictionary they started calling people from Combinatore “Tamil Vadakkans” after BJP won

    1. Pew (or someone else, but I think it was Pew) ran the numbers a while back and estimated that the Muslim population of India will stabilize at about 20% and not exceed that.

    2. Unfortunately for many Hindu nationalists census data doesn’t matter.

      For example, many self identifying Hindus in states outside the core Hindu nationalist region are simply deemed to be ‘crypto Christian’ for voting against the Hindu nationalist agenda.

      Some of them also believe in and spread wild conspiracy theories like Nehru actually being a Muslim.

      The actual number of Muslims and Christians in India doesn’t matter all that much to Hindu nationalists. Any Hindu who disagrees with their political agenda becomes a Muslim or Christian, as the case may be.

  29. Now that I think about it that deluded Bengali Son Goku guy who kept saying that his grandpa looked like Pashtun or something but that Mamata Banerjee was atypical (LMAO what a deluded dumbfuck) was probably the user Kulin from Anthrogenica. Both of them are from Comilla and both of them say the most stupidest shit imaginable as one would expect from typical Anthrogenica posters.

    I didn’t realize it then but they are definitely one and the same.

    1. Why is your rhetoric so demeaning? You can call someone ignorant of facts, if that’s your opinion, in a nicer way. Sometimes, I think you lose some of your potential audience by the words you choose. I think you can appreciate that there are more suave ways to make the same points.

      1. yeah Razib pointed this out a while back too. I’m very uncouth when it comes to communicating online it seems. Sometimes I should think about the optics here as well

    2. I believe he also was on TheApricity by the name of Shah-Jehan with the same profile picture as his current one.

      1. user Yes,

        Yep, good call now that you mention it. He had the “K” avatar or something like that and he was LARPing as “part-Persian” even though he’s full Bangla. He was actually serious about it too, like it wasn’t some joke he genuinely referenced it quite a bit and went along with the whole charade. It’s so ridiculous bro.

        He posted this thing on Anthrogenica a while back where he said that a distant ancestor of his from the 1600s was a Mughal Subadar Zamindar by the name of Shyam Roy who married a Persian princess and blah di blah he’s descended from them. Now, I’m pretty sure this is also untrue, him being descended from them I mean, we all know the kind of fanciful tales South Asian folks make up, hell anybody but I really need these motherfuckers to stop this nonsense. This is seriously cringe and very embarassing. Do these guys not have even a bit of self-respect, do they not cringe while writing these things? Even if that story of his was true, that would mean this guy’s claiming to be “part Persian” despite the fact that it’s like 0.000000000001% of his bloodline(from the 1600s). Seriously?

        I know that there are many lurkers here who see these comments. Listen up motherfuckers do NOT do this kind of corny shit (we wuz persians pashtuns n shiet like those black history copers).

  30. A MUST read. (Read comments too).
    University of Cambridge in the UK harmonized surveys conducted in 137 countries
    “Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe’s problems are the world’s problems, but the world’s problems are not Europe’s problems.”
    6.3 billion people who live outside of the West, 66 percent feel positively towards Russia and 70 percent feel positively towards China
    Among the 66 percent who feel positively about Russia the breakdown is 75 percent in South Asia, 68 percent in Francophone Africa, and 62 percent in Southeast Asia

    5 Reasons Why Much of the Global South Isn’t Automatically Supporting the West in Ukraine

    1. there appears to be some mis information regarding obc reservations. i can give some info on the karnataka case. here only sc/st have no income bar, thus son of an ias officer can get reservation. however in case of obcs there is an income bar. hence people with high verifiable incomes cannot get this facility and they will have to try in the general merit category.

      1. brown and phyecho1

        I suggest those who comment on caste reservations disclose their caste. No necessity to be specific. e.g Vedic Caste/Forward Caste or Shudra and below while remaining anonymous.

        That way can judge if there is bias.

        1. one is talking abt cs reservation in pvt sector, not govt sector where help from govt is understandable. If disclosure is required to discuss the topic, then what is the point of argument and discussion on anything at all. The advantage of anonymity is precisely that people argue on substance. My model is to give incentives for Inter caste marriages in a big way. That way, the problem collapses in couple of decades.

  31. This guy named Chandika Hathurusingha became the coach of the Bangla cricket team. Don’t care for cricket,was just on the news. The dude’s Sri Lankan and he looks very much like the famous Mohenjo-Daro priest, like even more of a carbon copy than you would thin.

    1. Modi does to am extent too. That guy passes quite well as a Guju Patel. IVC as a major S Asian ancestry component is quite visible all over. It shows its subcontinental legacy.

    2. Chandika Hathurusingha: Never heard of the chap till you mentioned. But then I am not interested in cricket.

      No mention in Wiki is the school he attended. Very unusual. Turns out he attended Veluwana College/School in Dematagoda. Thats a kind of slum/industrial area in North Colombo. Like saying you went to a school in Dharavi.

      From Wiki
      He was also the former head coach of the Sri Lanka national cricket team.[1] Hathurusingha also worked as the head coach of the Bangladesh national cricket team between 2014 to 2017 and 2023 to be continued.

      He has also coached the United Arab Emirates, the Sri Lanka A cricket team, New South Wales and Sydney Thunder.

      Up to 2017, he is the most successful coach to ever get involved in Bangladesh cricket, with ODI series victories against India, Pakistan and South Africa, and Test victories against Sri Lanka (away), England and Australia. During his tenure, Bangladesh moved higher in Team Rankings and qualified for the 2017 ICC Champions Trophy and directly qualified for 2019 ICC Cricket World Cup as well. He has rejoined as the Head Coach of Bangladesh Cricket Team in February, 2023 for two more years. [14]

      Upul Chandika Hathurusingha උපුල් චන්දික හතුරුසිංහ; born 13 September 1968

    1. Got interested in two words in the article.
      The sarpanches wanted to gherao the residence of the chief minister in Chandigarh

      The easy one, sarpanche.
      There is a surname Serpanchy, semi common among Eurasians/Burghers. Most of them have emigrated tp Australia and the West.
      eg: Everard Anthony Serpanchy

      More tenuous: gherao = grero
      Not a common name, but very well known. eg Mohan Lal Grero is a Sri Lankan educationist and politician.

    1. Mumbai, where Javed lives, is weird in that the slums are in the middle of the most valuable real estate (dhobi ghat, Dharavi).

      There are random fishing villages in the middle of the city next to sky scrapers (worli koliwada) which are basically glorified slums.

      A lot of people sell / rent out their slum rehab housing and going back to live in informal housing/ slums. Slum dwellers in Mumbai have significant political influence since they are in the majority (Average Indian cannot afford housing there)

      So this is the sort of integration and scale of
      slums he is comparing with, it is quite exceptional even relative to other places in India.

      1. Pre chola – not use if IVC or AASI

        I would bet IVC if AASI then that changes a lot of things.

        It is about 11% in Northern Australia.

        The Dingo which is reLated to Indian landrace dogs probably introduced in this period.

      2. @warlock (thanks for the link)
        4,000 years ago (2,000 BC) is before Vedic or Dravidian incursions into India. No Cholas at that time.

        We (as in Shudra and Dalits) were big travelers even in 2000 BC.

        I wonder why these people left a reasonably nice area, like South India/Sri Lanka to travel thousands of miles to Northern Australia. WanderLust ?

        1. Sbarrkum,

          Shudras and Dalits have steppe ancestry. And Brahmins have IVC and AASI.

          4000 year ago there was no conception of Shudra and Dalit.

          Perhaps they were maratime traders?

          1. Sumit
            Shudras and Dalits have steppe ancestry. And Brahmins have IVC and AASI.

            These were the people who became Shudras and Dalits after Aryan/Steppe and Dravidian invasions around 100BC or later.

            Note these migration are 2000 BC, around time of Harappa.

            Brahamins by self definition are Aryan/Steppe vedic descendants. They would not like to acknowledge AASI/Dalit genes.

            Incidentally the Pariah dogs are like Lankans/India. Wont learn tricks unless advantageous to them
            Dingo’s relative

          2. “ These were the people who became Shudras and Dalits after Aryan/Steppe and Dravidian invasions around 100BC or later.”

            Some of their descendants became Brahmins. Some Kshatriyas etc.

            Some heard of the message of Islam and became Muslims. Others adopted the Sikhi. Others Jainism. Atheists Etc.

  32. There is no way out in India other than to do iq check to consider issues of discrimination. Nothing else will do. Nothing else can convince people otherwise.reservation in pvt sector only matter of time , because even judges will have quota. Modimoron cannot understand concept of precedence.

    1. prof. vaidyanathan had an interesting take on this topic, which i feel is realistic.
      in south india and most likely across all of india , in the private sector, the lower and middle work forces are obc as that is how the population is mixed.
      in karnataka today obcs are present in sufficient numbers across all spheres including films, tv anchors, print journalists, managers in private sector including mncs.
      so any law for reservations will not hold much stuff in reality.
      if there is a demand for board positions based on caste reservations then it is a different thing.

      1. people dont see it in such way, they now will see it as guaranteeing it and would prefer it rather than to struggle or work for it and compete.

      2. people dont see it in such way, they now will see it as guaranteeing it and would prefer it rather than to struggle or work for it and compete. But more important is to see the clear direction of implementing pvt quota by major pol party. One should not pussyfoot around that.

  33. “all the shit we pulled in other countries since the Cold War, some morons decided to bring home (to the US)”

    today, we find about about The Global Engagement Center (GEC), The Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab (DFRLab), The Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD), and New Knowledge (NK) – all doing similar censorious things by similar censorious methods, demanding social media entities blacklist accounts for the barest minimum of reasons.

    DFRLab said it suspected 40,000 accounts of being “paid employees or possibly volunteers” of India’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

    But the list was full of ordinary Americans, many with no connection to India and no clue about Indian politics.

    “A Total Crock…Un-American” – Taibbi Exposes Censorious Arm Of State-Sponsored Blacklisting

  34. Reading all the news coming out of Bakhmut, it feels like Russians are prevailing because of their artillery superiority. All modern wars were supposed to be drone and stealth.

    This is the “financialization” of the weapon industry – CEOs wanted to keep their stocks high so they ended up inventing newer and newer technologies to ride the wave. Meanwhile, on the ground, old fashioned artillery duels are remaking the map.

    1. No ethnicity deserves saving if it does not want to fight themselves

      Now the less Hindu ethnicities have to fight their own fights, and will be more responsible in their voting choices.

  35. All countries engage in covert or overt propaganda often by omission, eg. not reporting on developments that are positive for the other side (see bottom story).

    I recommend reading alternate news to get a balanced view of the world. Often these are labelled fake news, Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories. The latest tar brush is Extremist right wing which to me is still news. Most often the so called conspiracy stories are a cinder which can become a fire. My regular gotos are, and

    If you read these kind of sources, you would have by 2006 known there was a good possibility of a Financial Crash. I read and made bets on that and made a decent sum of money. Then there was the war in Afghanistan, it was very clear by 2010 that the US/UK had lost that war. It was just allowed drag on so that Military Industrial complex and NGO could continue the gravy train.

    Now we have the War in Ukraine. Within two months into the war, the media I read was quite clear, Russia would prevail because
    a) The Rusian economy remained strong and the Ruble did not become rubble as Biden claimed.
    b) Russia was bigger country with huge military power that rivalled the US. MSM tried to make out that Russia was a failed state,
    c) MSM ignored that Ukraine was poor (as poor as Sri Lanka) and more corrupt than Sri Lanka. Ukraine has a huge industrial complex in Eastern Ukraine built by Soviets. Even with all those assets it is a poor country, because corruption is stripping its wealth.
    d) Their is also chatter, that Russia is using its lesser grade weapons. Apparently they are keeping the better guns for the eventual big one, a direct confrontation the worlds self appointed policemen.

    (The only way there was a possibility to defeat Russia was for US/UK/NATO to directly confront Russia. But that was too risky, as many NATO countries probably would not want bombs on their door step.)

    Note for us Sri Lankans: We almost became like Ukraine, with a part becoming a separate state. India in 1987 invaded and tried to force defacto separate state. Luckily for Sri Lankan state, the LTTE Terrorist leader wanted it all, and fought the Indian army. Worse Prabhakaran decided to assasinate the Indian PM. That was the end to Indian support for Tamil separate state. The war just dragged on for more years, because too much money was being made by arms deals.
    China dominates global tech race – report
    Beijing has a “stunning lead” over the US in most crucial technologies,

    This would seem like Russian propaganda because it is on However, it is reporting on Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) study that was funded by the US State Department

  36. Once you go black you dont go back. Nothing else quite fits.
    Stanley Ann Dunham is proof of that, you can google to find out who she was.

    I dont think it is any black person. Its islanders, relatively small islands.

    Sex Tourism Shirley Valentine Barbados

  37. Jeffrey Sachs.
    I hoped to work as post doc at Lamont Doherty, i.e. The Earth Institute of Columbia University. Didnt quite cut it.

    American economist, academic, public policy analyst, and former director of The Earth Institute at Columbia University, where he holds the title of University Professor. He is known for his work on sustainable development, economic development, and the fight to end poverty

    Europe is DOOMED: Jeffrey Sachs.

  38. It is not about all about black or Asia is first type thinking. There is still much of Stockholm Syndrome in me Remember I was a big fan of the American Center in Colombo, and then 25 years in the US.

    My middle to upper class white US grad school mates were quite dismissive of Grand Funk, that was in 1990 or so. So that whole wokeism was working itself thru the system. It is one thing to be accepting of inequalities etc, but not good to disregard nationalistic concepts. The world is still a long way away from equality.

    Some of my favorite groups still are America (Horse with no Name) and Grand Funk Railroad. Grand Funk was from Michigan as I recall.

    GRAND FUNK RAILROAD – We’re An American Band

    1. Cant do all the music I listened to at the American Center at Galle Face court.

      Anyway, somewhere around L4 or U4th* (mid 70’s) heard about the American Center and to be able to listen tp music.
      (That was Eton school class naming. My school was modeled on Eton and teachers from Eton, and hence a different enunciation. Like I do mention I am a third gen of that system. Thats the accent Penicil Man considers false. Queens English. India (and Jamaica) has in general a more Scottish accent because Scots were cheaper employees)

      At home we did not even have radio, the valve Phillips had died and my father did not have the money to repair it.

      I walked to the American Center, at that time it was in the Galle Face building. I still recall, walking in and wanting to be a member. Apparently I had to be over 14 to be a member. There was non of your urban elite who worked there, called me aside and said you can listen to records, even if you are not a member.

      The first records I listened to were Osi Bisa and Chicago. I was hooked.

      Chicago – 25 or 6 to 4 – 7/21/1970

  39. Anthrogenica folks, man. Even the mod Reza, who is Bangla, is just out there. New samples were added to the G25 database and the only ones that got a proper location were the ones from Sylhet, where he’s from. There were even other samples but they only got things like (South West Bangladesh) or something like that added even though their origins were known to be in Comilla or something.

    Even within the forum, he ignores these things. Why can’t he add the location names properly when he posts coordinates? The locations of other samples were made clear by the users themselves and I made it clear that I was from Rangpur Division but no, only Sylhet is mentioned? What the fuck is wrong with these guys?

    1. Dawg why are you complaining about a random forum here LOL you’re such a tool.

      1. Anthrogenica is about genetics, genealogy etc. This forum’s main man Razib also posts a lot about those topics. Also, this is an OPEN THREAD. I’m allowed to post that stuff. You’re either some assblasted Indian or is that you, Kulin/Reza? Mad you got called out? lol seethe, retard. There’s like a billion posts on here and you choose mine (which is relative on topic to the forum) to reply to? fuck outta here

  40. Re Germany and US, I am surprised Akshay is buying in to the notion that US is letting Germany free ride.

    MePredictor is right. Germany and EU is now an US vassal. Look at German impotence at NS 2 being blown up. On top of that US asking EU to step up defence expenditure has overtones of medieval empires asking their vassalges to cough up troops and material.

    1. Has been since 1945. Losing wars, and that too so thoroughly, has consequences. For the most part US vassals have it good. They enjoy a living standard better than the US itself. If Germany, wants “independence”, they can fight for it. US wont hand it on a platter. Freedom doesn’t come without blood, sweat, and tears,

      1. Re Germany fair enuf but the public posturing about shared western values is believed by a close majority of ppl in eu and us. In a way it is good that the real terms are out in the open. Re sovereignty US ally UK itself is not fairing too well sovereignty wise. Also I am reminded of Kissinger’s quote—- dangerous to be US enemy but fatal to be an ally.
        My only hope/concern is that IN policy makers keep this pattern in mind. Prioritize sovereignty over short term gains either tech or investment.

        1. Real terms are only discussed by a few anons online with no real world relevance. Most everyone believes in the shared western values narrative. Especially, the economic, cultural, and the political elites and those in the pipeline to become the elite.
          Regarding India, I am not sure. Its quite weird. The Indian right wing seems to only hate Muslims and Christians. They are ok with importing everything else from the West. LGBT, radical feminism, transgender etc. Heck, they even seem proud of being more pro-LGBT, women, and transgender compared to the Muslims. But guess what, LGBT is what the modern West wants to evangelize across the world. Not Jesus. So in that sense, India is already subverted. I can see a scenario, where Indians 50 years from now still strongly identify as Hindu but don’t believe in the gods, go to temples, do or believe in anything that would be recognized as Hinduism a generation or two ago. However in that India, half are some sort of LGBTQ+, three quarters of teenagers are depressed, two thirds have gender dysphoria, the birth rate is 0.5, the GDP is 50 trillion and the GDP per capita $80k.
          Is that sovereignty and a victory for the Indian right wing?

          1. Hinduism just isn’t as anti LGBTQ stuff as Christianity and Islam.

            I think think the traditional festivals and stuff will grow in popularity rather than decline and there will be a rediscovery of some philosophical concepts.

            This is a transition from more folk Hinduism with some more supernatural type beliefs.

          2. HJ,
            I am not sure real terms are restricted to anon forums especially since brexit. Hence the liberal elite kvetching about misinformation. There was a recent poll where close to half of Germans had a neutral view of RUS. Combine that with German gov going back on 100B rearmament plan for this year. JS has gained immense popularity from across ideological, religious and geographical boundaries. Granted all this increased awareness may not be a game changer by itself but you never know. This impact will only grow in future.
            Re RW Indians and Hindus, the resentment of Ms and Christians is mainly on account of those groups acting or seen to be acting on behalf of external actors. This is exacerbated by exclusive claims about One way to truth. Liberal elites are also increasingly filling this space.
            Re LGBT folks , they have been historically tolerated/accepted in culture and even in mythology. For reference see Vishnu’s mohini avatar I am surprised, the group of trans folks walking around streets and in trains asking for alms has not made it to western travelogues along with cows on streets.
            If any culture can assimilate lgbt culture then it is Hindu culture. However if it acts as sepoy of neocons/globalists then those aspects will attract opposition.
            I am not big fan of jerking off on gdp numbers. Since 2014, ayushman health insurance scheme, toilet + gas cylinders has made tangible impact on lives of close to a billion people. I am not sure that number has not been captured in gdp numbers.

          3. Bhumiputra
            If any culture can assimilate lgbt culture then it is Hindu culture.

            I would say Buddhist culture more so.
            All those “celibate” Buddhist Monks with young novices.
            South East Asia and its Ladyboys.

            Our current SL President is gay, an open secret.
            There are 10 cabinet/MP’s know to be gay,
            Kolu karayo (boy lovers) or Samanalayo (Butterflies) as referred to in Sinhalese. Does not seem to affect their popularity or elect-ability.

          4. Sbarrkum@
            I consider Buddhism also under the broader dharmic umbrella so I am not going to quibble about who is more suited to handle lgbt.
            we do need to recognize that lgbt has been weaponized and children are specifically targeted.

          5. Bhumiputra,

            Those Germans are all probably concentrated in East Germany. East Germans are unique, in being the only former communist state in Europe to have a positive to neutral opinion about USSR.
            But it really doesn’t matter. Lets take the chancellor, Olaf Scholz. He was a true believer, a genuine commie in his youth. Had the Soviets, not collapsed, he could have actually taken Germany in a pro-Russian/Soviet direction. In his heart, I definitely think he is pro-Russian displayed by all his dithering and delays when it comes to supporting Ukraine. But he can’t do anything about it, because power is all that matters, and Americans have all the power in Europe.

            I don’t get how anyone can look at the Ukraine war so far and think US is losing. I was pro-Russian and consumed a lot of Russian copium until last fall or so when reality began to set in.

            Lets put it this way. Let’s imagine a scenario where, the Western states and Texas break off from the US in 1990. The Western states all immediately enter a Chinese alliance, Texas remains neutral but still somewhat pro-US. But since 2010 or so, Texas begins to shift to the Chinese side. The policymakers in Washington panic and though they are able to seize Galveston Island, and start a small scale insurgency in East Texas, Texas as a whole turns even more pro-Chinese. In 2022, the US launches, an anti-Confederate operation to get rid of all the racists in Texas. They strike Austin, and initially look like they are able to decapitate the government, but they are pushed back. China immediately starts sending hundreds of billions of yuans along with the lethal weapons to Texas. The Americans keep getting pushed back and in the end only control a narrow corridor of Texan territory along the border of Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. But sure Americans might achieve their great victory after one year of capturing the great town of Nacogdoches, Texas, while being pushed back from Houston, and Dallas.

            How could anyone look at this and then think the US is winning? This is what’s happening to Russia.

          6. HJ,
            I am with you on what is happening with UKR front.
            My point is that ppl across the world are increasingly aware of the “real terms “. The loss of legitimacy brings its own corrosive impact on the system.

    1. 1. muslim population is stabilizing. we can see that in muslim families, although an odd one might have 3 or more children.
      2. cpm in kerala is the hindu party. it was /is opposed by congress which has significant christian voters and leaders. cpm never had a christian as cm while congress had chandy, antony etc.
      3. well, bengal is a ‘less hindu’ region!!!

      1. Having Bengal as the ‘less Hindu’ region and not having Kerala in the bracket seems odd. Kerala is what Bengal will be, in a few decades.

  41. mark s, is a fairly middle america commentator but even he is toeing the neocon line on mexico’s election commission changes.

    I saw a clip today where AMLO says that mexico has real democracy whereas US has oligarchy. Not an expert on MX, but there is an alternative reading to Frum’s timeline. Since 90s, increased federalization coincided with increased cartelization in MX. Makes you wonder if this is “goldilocks syndrome” version of preventing MX from getting too uppity.

    The same play around Election Commissioners and Judicially engineered coups seems to be in works in IN as well with recent judgement regarding appointment of CEC.


    “colloquially, have become a much-feared force in the hinterlands of Haryana. They are the unexpected fallout in a state with such a skewed sex ratio that young men started ‘buying’ brides from other parts of India. It’s a thriving industry with brokers hammering out all the pesky details so that young women from poor families in Bihar, Jharkhand, West Bengal, Uttar Pradesh, and even Kerala can be ‘sold’ for as little as Rs 10,000.

    Now, the tables have turned. The agency-bought brides are targeting Haryanvi men who are desperate to marry. They go through the trappings of wedding ceremonies, play the shy bride, become the dutiful bahu, obey their husbands, and then bam! They flee with all their money.”

    “Muh steppe!” kang is going to go down and some will be poisoned in the process. Prior is of no matter but latter, though sad, is a bit of karmic justice for superiority complex and sexism that led to abuse of more aasi people and high selective female abortion rates respectively.

    1. @brown

      This is quite interesting. I saw a few videos of DMK men pointing to the caste of the North Indian laborers as “compatriot castes”. Rhetoric with nuance!

      Many laborers pick up the Tamil language and it’s diglossia. They have none of the reservations of elitist debates.

      Some synthesis will happen!


        prof. vaidyanathan on pgurus. quite interesting.
        1. at one point he says that there are 70 lakh ‘northies’ in tamilnadu.
        2. one dmk functionary has said that tamil nadu belongs to all of india!!.
        3. stalin spoke about the sovereignty of india. prof. says dmk going ‘indian’ is a tectonic shift in its politics.

        1. Good video!

          A sort of Hegelian dialectic is underway where DMK seeks to resolve a contradiction between its cultural elements and industrial planks. In all probability there will not be a “scorched earth”policy like the Bengali communists or the Gangetic OBCs (Laloo, Mulayam). What degree of co-option will be reached is of interest to every Southern state.

        2. We north Indians will make all less-Hindu space, more Hindu.

          That’s what DMK is afraid of.

          1. All the productive OBCs escaping UP/Bihar will eventually lead to more M numbers there (already at 30% in considerable districts).

  43. Interesting perspective on growing your own food.
    WorldBank and IMF encourage/ensure Africa and other 3rd world countries to not grow their own food. Instead they grow tropical cash crops like cocoa etc to earn dollars to pay for food imports from US/EU.
    We need to appreciate IN achievement of food independence in late 60s. Interestingly this green revolution was assisted by americans like borlaug.
    PK is back to food imports.

  44. Reading comments on here makes me think most of you guys are mentally ill incels.

    This blog has went down the drain, it’s complete cringe now.

    1. Yeah, I’ve been saying that as the ratio of diaspora desis have gone up and “natives” have gone down, the quality has decreased. People shout more, there’s less debate etc. This place used to be more chill. Less HBD sperging.

      Razib has also been treating the blog with benign neglect. Occasionally, he will go out and ban some troll but that’s about it. Can’t blame him. He’s got a wildly successful substack and this blog pays him nothing. Why would he tend to it for no compensation?

      1. You guys can literally head on right back to your reddit servers lol why do Indians from India always invade every single online space and then cry? You got like a billion different websites while diaspora motherfuckers can barely have some space without you interfering.

        You do realize this place was originally meant for diaspora right?

        1. I was under the impression that there are very few Indians from India on the Blog.

    2. @Razib and admins,
      Does it make sense to split the open threads into India/subcontinent specific one and another one for brown issues in the west?

  45. The time when Indians could leave for the West to escape reservations is slowly coming to an end.

    4D chess theorisers will think this is a devious plot by legacy whites to undermine new competition. The reality is much more banal: as the number of South Asians in the West skyrockets, the old conflicts, resentments and recriminations inevitably re-appear.

    1. Educated Native Americans, blacks, and Hispanics are even more
      woke than whites. Bringing them to India will only futher intensify wokism. But to be fair Americans are not going to be attending Indian universities.

      I don’t know who this guy is but why is Twitter bio about being cited by US Army War College, US Navy War College, Carnegie Endowment, and BBC?

    2. The main reasons why this is not 100% or even close to 50% driven by grass roots angst are self selection and plenty of opportunities at least in tech in US. The people who are eligible for quotas in IN generally have decent pathways back in home country.

  46. AUKUS facing tech transfer issues
    As the thread says, it is a good counter argument to those who say that IN could have got lot of tech goodies if it hopped on to US bandwagon completely.
    No country, even RUS will share key tech jewels. Usually these technologies have been refined during actual hot conflict and from operational experience.
    Wrt RUS-UKR, another reason why not just IN but other middle powers could be lukewarm is the “what happens next” thinking. If RUS is completely taken out or crippled then no other country is safe. Every “election” will be decided in Washington.

  47. Jaisalmir,in Rajasthan has an annual music festival in the desert featuring gypsy music. (A similar one in Essakene, Mali which I assume has stopped because of security issues.)

    This movie traces the musical path of Rajasthani gypsies in their journey to the west. (1hr 38 mins) e.g Flamenco and Django Reinhardt are inheritors of this musical genre.
    I have been a big fan of gypsy (Roma) music since the around 2000

    Michael Caine (1933)
    Charlie Chaplin (1889-1977)
    Yul Brynner (1920-1985)
    Elvis Prisley (1935-1977)
    Bob Hoskins (1942-2014)
    Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
    Rita Hayworth (1918-1987

    Latcho Drom is a 1993 French documentary film directed by Tony Gatlif.
    The documentary follows, mainly through music and dance, the Roma people from their origins in northwestern India to Spain.

    1. I first got interested in gypsies as a teenager reading Guy Mannering by Water Scott. My father had most of his books. There was a footnote about one of the main characters a Gypsy woman. It mentioned there was a similarity between European gypsy dialects and Indian languages.

      Scott had some really fantastic novels, and for a teenager who had no TV etc a view of the world.

      As they await news, Mannering meets Dominie Sampson, a learned but socially inept tutor, and Meg Merrilies, a wild-looking, strident Gypsy woman, who has come to tell the child’s fortune

      Seventeen years elapse, and Mannering, now a Colonel, returns from India and visits Scotland once again. He arrives at Ellangowan in time to be present at the death of the now destitute Godfrey Bertram.

      I need to read this again.

  48. I first got intersted in Bauls (the first Rock Musicians) watching a musical documentary “Vagabunden Karawane: 1979, (1:28 mins)

    i) at 43:02 there is a clip of two Bauls singing. The younger boy is Paban Das Baul later quite well know in Europe. Search youtube for Paban Das Baul

    ii) The circus clip around 30 mins reminded me of the Circus my father took me and and sisters. It was near Lunawa (far outskirts of Colombo in the late 60’s) Can recall dancing girls. Maybe I was too young or maybe the Circuses catered to a broader as in women and children.

    Maybe PencilMan is interested, Baul music is supposed to be in there in Bangala.

    A musical trip through Iran, Afghanistan and India in 1979
    We find what we´re looking for on our way“. The filmmaker Werner Penzel accompanied the group Embryo at the end of the 70s on their eight-month-long trip from Munich to the province of Calcutta, India.

    1. My write up on Bauls (2013)

      The Original Rock Musicians:
      Embryo’s Christian Burchard narrates the following: “The Baul musicians live outside the caste system which governs Indian culture. Like the Saddus, the Bauls reject possessions on religious grounds. They travel throughout India on foot carrying only their musical instrument. The Bauls create their songs spontaneously in front of their audience. They want to transport their public into another world.”

      Music: The Bauls of Bengals


    Caste bullying at Toronto schools prompts vote over new protected category

    ‘Ms. Rajakulasingam, whose parents moved to Canada from Sri Lanka as refugees in 1986, identifies as a member of an oppressed caste. The stories she heard from parents in her ward resonated with her own life experiences growing up in Scarborough.

    Ms. Rajakulasingam, who is Hindu, said she was confused by the allegation that the motion was targeting the Hindu faith. She said the motion did not single out any faith, but that it affected South Asian, African and Caribbean diasporas.’

    1. This lady looks very North Indian and not Tamil at all.

      Far less any phenotype that south Asians would visually associate with being an “oppressed caste” also cant tell based on name.

      1. They should just do it on melanin index. That way I can get affirmative action too.

      2. The problem is that every single caste in SL (and Jaffna) would be Shudra, including the majority Vellala caste which are the upper class power. So technically oppressed caste in the Indian system. The name is significant as in Raja-kula-Singham (kula as in house/caste)

        She sounds like she had English educated parents. Not always a true, but generally indicative of upper class parent.

        Many Raja-kula-Singhams in the Canada/US many professionals.

  50. Curious to hear liberal/congressi justifications for RaGa pleading US/UK “help” in restoring democracy in IN.

    1. Maybe India has become too fascist for opposition to be effective internally.

      No harm in having some objective outsiders help restore democracy.

      1. Pretty weak. What if RW also starts playing this game?
        I hope modi-shah don’t become complacent. There is a large group of Hs voters in KA, MH, MP, RJ,BH etc who will consider congress as a nationalist party still. This group should be assiduously persuaded that RaGa has crossed a lakshman rekha. Bjp also needs to improve its local leaders.

        1. All RW handles and BJP spokies are all over the target rich sound bytes that RaGa has provided. But they should just focus on the IJA interview where he explicitly asked US/UK to intervene.

    1. Immigration from India is overwhelmingly aspirational, rarely ‘desperational’. The country has a low (and decreasing) murder rate, almost intact social order and an economy that has outpaced the world average for four decades. The net migration rate is very low.

      The situation is very different in most of the rest of the world, high crime, oppressive governments, stagnant or shrinking economies or a combination of the above.

        Posting again since it may no longer be visible.

        112 vs the Northeast Asian average of 106 is surprising. The Chinese immigrants that I know are all former grad students and don’t seem that different from Indian immigrants.

        The average for Sub-Saharan Africa also seems low. Though I guess it might be brought down by refugees.

        1. Emigration from sub-Saharan Africa to the US is still lower than India. Probably because, one, the region is much poorer than India, so not as many people who can afford to emigrate. Two, large parts of the region are Francophone so not a large number of English educated aspiring elites who can succeed in the US. We will see, the population growth in the region is insane. There is slow but steady economic growth as well. I reckon the African equivalent to Indian Americans might happen in a generation.

        2. “The Chinese immigrants that I know are all former grad students and don’t seem that different from Indian immigrants.”

          Depends what social circles you are in. If you’re UMC, then it makes sense. But likely China has a higher proportion of “rich but dumb” immigrants.

          Think a ruthless business man who marries a dumb model and his kids go to the US. India seem more tolerant of obscene wealth displays, so politically it makes more sense for the stupidly rich to stay in India.

          There’s also the fact that as China grew richer earlier, you saw a greater proportion of less intelligent but highly striving people. I think India is entering that stage now, as rural Punjab and Haryana is emptying out and they go to the West. Many of these guys aren’t the brightest bulbs in the room, so to speak.

          So I suspect average IQ of Indians will steadily come down as we go forward.

  51. We prospered in the 2000s after capitalizing on the opening provided by the Y2K scare. More recently, we are failing to take advantage of any of our good luck, be it the US moving away from China, internet apps or pharma. I cant think of a single important economic opportunity we have maximized since 2010.

    1. Interesting to see the supposedly “intolerant Gujarat” being above-average whereas “liberal, tolerant Tamil Nadu” is near dead last. South also has a higher share of cousin marriages than much of the North.

      I think this meme of the “progressive Southern India” is one of the most toxic myths when discussing the country. It’s clearly bullshit.

      1. whereas “liberal, tolerant Tamil Nadu” is near dead last. South also has a higher share of cousin marriages than much of the North.
        Cross cousin marriage had been the norm in South South India, including Sri Lanka.

        The equivalent of “mate” in the west is “machang” or “massina”. i.e. your cross cousin brother who is considered the ideal mate for your sister.

        My aunt (fathers oldest sister) and father tried to set me up with my niece, Aunts granddaughter about a year younger to me. I “chaperoned” her for musical events etc. I was very much enthralled with her, dark, and skinny with wild crazy hair. The prospect of bliss and heaven between her dark skinny legs was so enticing.

        She on the other hand liked taller, much more handsome chaps. I console my self (sour grapes) thinking she was a fluff head, literally and figuratively.

        Anyway back to cousin marriage. It seems to be the accepted ideal pre WW2. However, Knox (16??) make no mention of that custom

        I think this meme of the “progressive Southern India” is one of the most toxic myths when discussing the country. It’s clearly bullshit.

        I on and off look at Kerala stats. as it is most like SL Plus much immigration from Kerala a century or more ago, during Dutch times Seems pretty good on HDI etc.

        On to IQ and assume low IQ because of cross cousin marriage. Maybe Sinhalese (I am Tamil) are low IQ, but they know how to play the great game. Bankrupt and defaulted and and still batting on. Nothing new, many credit crisis starting in 1952 (post WW2 and independence).

        500 years of playing one European power against the other. Sometimes with disastrous consequences and still the nation has survived. That is a different kind of intelligence.

      2. Another purportedly “low IQ” peoples, the Gypsies. They have endured the pogrom, genocide by Europeans.

        In Germany during WW2. 500,000 of the 1 or 2 million Roma in Europe were exterminated .

        The Roma are still surviving across Europe. In Eastern Europe they are still flourishing. In sanctimonious Western Europe they are not culturally visible.

        The level of extermination and genocide of peoples by Europeans is unparalleled in history.

        I would like principia to contest my claim above, if he has any cojones.

        Orkestar Dejana Avdica – Gypsy Wedding in Vranjska Banja

      3. One reason for the “progressive “ image is general physical safety of women in public spaces. At least till aughts there were women bus conductors in bluru. All Indians know this is not possible somewhere north of indore/gwalior.

      4. Gujarat does badly on several HDI metrics and women’s equality, relative to its GDP per capita (middling HDI but high gdp per capita for Indian standards). But the less honor culture and more flexible mercantile oriented cultured of the state, coupled with a less caste hierarchal current power scheme, make intercaste marriage more of a thing.

        Women can walk around quite safely at night in much of Ahmedabad, Rajkot, and Surat. But domestic violence rates on surveys is still a major concern. Ahmedabad is the near the top of some of those lists.

  52. Middle aged fat Indian uncle impressed me with arm wrestling. He doesn’t even workout. Beat him easily on the left but on the right just couldn’t pin him. He had that old man strength. I gotta work harder I guess

    1. @thewarlock

      It’s interesting you share this anecdote. I read this anthropological article sometime ago about how Roman gladiators were fat or tending to obese. Apparently in close quarter combat, the benefits of having a slightly obese frame pays off in recovery and absorbing damage. Also a lower center of gravity makes it easier for pivoting. This is in inline with measurements of other taxa – like apex predators – which tend to obesity for greater survival advantages. Muscled and toned might just be a modern “photogenic” fad for urban males.

    2. Are wrestling has its own specific technique and different strength modality.
      If you search

      rahul panicker vs larry wheels

      interesting that given size and strength difference that Rahul is still able to hold his own. Wheels is very accomplished at powerlifting.

      1. @sbarrkum

        I feel like you’d be good at arm wrestling. You can climb trees at your age and look like you have a lot of “old man strength”

        1. @warlock
          I feel like you’d be good at arm wrestling. You can climb trees at your age and look like you have a lot of “old man strength”

          I am a loner mostly and prefer to compete against myself. Water sports, because I enjoy being in water.

          Used to windsurf, intermediate level. No car now and to windsurf need to cart around a lot of equipment.

          Waiting for some money, about USD 1000 to get a used Wing Foil equipment. I am about 5 km from the opposite shore of the world class kitesurfing Kalpitiya area of SL ( do google of search?q=kalpitiya+kitesurfing).

          Wing foil dont need bulky equipment, can be taken in a tuk tuk or even in a backpack if un-assembled Also unlike kitesurfing dont need a lot of space to layout/untangle the kite lines (did a 3 day kitesurfing camp 15 years ago at Cape Hatteras)

          How to WING FOIL in 5 minutes

        2. @warlock

          Just saw a new complete package for USD 1,299, no foil just fins (prices drop end of summer as not much demand)

          Slingshot Tracker 7′ SUP Package w/ SlingWing V2 6.4
          7′ = size of board. (also good to know flotation/upthrust volume* )
          6.4 = 6.4m wing (not bad, tho would have preferred 7.5m. good for medium to light wind 15-20mph).

          *Flotation/upthrust volume in liters.
          For a beginner close to 100% of body weight. (i.e. flotation volume =body weight 1L=1kg)
          For a intermediate close to 50% of body weight. (i.e. flotation volume = 0.5 *body weight )

          Complete Foiling Packages

  53. Razib is asking for “truth” , doesnt matter from which group you demand truth, but in a world where no one cares for it, asking for truth is a difficult thing to do. It is better to aim for one principle that unites everyone. Meritocracy. Division of scholarship from activism. As johnathan haidt said, universities can care for truth or activism, not both. That way, they can ignore friendly fights, else not possible.

    secularism should be upgraded to take into effect these new non religious cults. Find the basic common minimum one can all politically chamion and get behind, avoid public friendly fire on each other, make that the principle for joining the group. Truth with capital T will win eventually anyway, what one needs together is to create a network of trust.

  54. Nasty Indian foreigners, playing with Russia and not playing by the “Rules” of Freedom and Democracy loving USA/NATO.

    ith India of all countries accelerating de-dollarization through its non-dollar-denominated energy deals with Russia. About them, Russia has since become India’s largest supplier over the past year and now provides a whopping 35% of that country’s needs, which is also the world’s third-largest oil importer and fifth-largest economy.

    None of what was just described is driven by any anti-American animus on India’s part since everything is purely motivated by the pursuit of that country’s objective national interests

    If you are not with us, you are against us. Time for Regime change in India.

    India Takes A Leading Role In De-Dollarization

    1. “The Punjabi Tanka Sultans of the Muzaffarid Dynasty conquered Gujarat and neighboring regions in Rajasthan and Maharashtra, even demolishing the Somnath Temple.”

      He makes it seem like these guys and their band of warriors rode down from Lahore to conquer Gujarat, similar to what various NW conquerors did in Punjab.
      The reality is:

      1. They were governors of Gujarat under the Delhi sultanate due in large part to one of their ancestors marrying a sister to the Delhi sultan.

      2. When Timur sacked Delhi, they took advantage of a power vacuum.

      3. Their armies would not have been of Punjabi extraction predominantly. But rather the remnants of the Delhi sultanate later fortified by local loyalists.

      Basically these guys of took the most Bania path to becoming Sultanhood. But I can respect the hustle.

      1. Its alright.

        All Indian ethnicities want ‘martial’ history. Including the ‘defeated’ ethnicities. Everyone needs a story to tell.


    ” I had come to Afghanistan because I wanted to see something truly different from the West. But even in the Islamic Emirate, I could sense a creeping Westernization.”

    ” But these subjects of the Islamic Emirate could not be kept from watching Stranger Things or Game of Thrones or Japanese anime; they had a better knowledge of Breaking Bad than I did. On Twitter—they, like so many Afghans, were avid users—shared soyjack memes and called themselves “sigma males.” They talked about feminism, “LGBTQ,” and pronouns—strange things to complain about in a country where women can’t go to school. They were becoming Westerners: culture war, America’s most successful soft-power export, was their induction.”

    “Social modernity is not kept out by the barrel of a gun: the internet is the ultimate vector of Westernization”

    “On Valentine’s Day—the celebration of which is forbidden in Islam—peddlers in the streets of Kabul were selling heart-shaped balloons. It wasn’t America, but it was trying.”

    “The Taliban won the war; but in the long run, the social modernity they so bitterly resisted is on its way.”

  56. The Israeli protests are interesting. The American Jews are directly funding the opposition protests. The (Jewish) US Ambassador to Israel, speaks out openly against Netanyahu’s policies. First time, there has been such a brazen split between American and Israeli Jews but surely a sign of things to come. Israeli Jews are increasingly becoming right-wing as the first and second generation immigrants and die out and are being replaced by people who only know Israel as their home. American Jews on the other hand remain just as left wing, living in the constant paranoia that they are just one election away from being genocided. So the split betweent the two axis of the Jewish community was bound to happen.

  57. Ronald Reagan said of the Contras, who pillaged, raped and slaughtered their way through Nicaragua. “They are our brothers, these freedom fighters, and we owe them our help,” “They are the moral equal of our Founding Fathers and the brave men and women of the French Resistance,” Reagan added. “We cannot turn away from them, for the struggle here is not right versus left, it is right versus wrong.”

    Those lionized as the bulwark against barbarism when the arms are flowing to them, are forgotten once the conflicts end, as in Afghanistan and Iraq. The former proxy fighters must flee the country or suffer the vendettas of those they fought, as happened to the abandoned Hmong tribesmen in Laos and the South Vietnamese.

    Proxy wars, as Chalmers Johnson pointed out, engender unintended blowback. The backing of the mujahedeen in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets, which included arming groups such as those led by Osama bin Laden, gave rise to the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

    Chris Hedges: Ukraine’s Death By Proxy

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