The November circular was emailed earlier to all various stakeholders of BP. This will be sticky for a short period as unfortunately publishing all the drafts has pushed the current posts much further down.
You may also use this thread as an unmoderated Open Threads. Topics of interest include JD Vance’s comments, the stabbing in the UK by asylum seekers (presumably), and any other interest. I would suggest everyone engage with the email, after the jump; if you have been emailed it privately, I do expect private replies as well.
Dear Co-Founders, Editors, and Authors,
This is our 667th post, and Brown Pundits now holds 3,817 published essays; fifteen years of conversation, argument, and cultural memory. The drafts backlog is now clear: every draft, fragment, and private note is now live. If something should not be public, delete it.
October Performance & Participation
Traffic:ย Down ~15% from Sep toย ~55k monthly views โ expected, given Oct turbulence.
Posting:ย Around 40 new posts, including active comment threads.
Audience:ย Still led by India, followed by North America (NRIs).
Participation: Of about 18 Authors, 2โ3 post regularly; 6โ9 engage consistently.
The true metric isnโt traffic, itโsย pulse. A forum lives only through its writers.
On Capriciousness and Consistency
Being an author or editor here is not an entitlement; it is aย gift. It must be exercised or released.
Indosaurusโs farewell post, a Geoffreyย Howe moment to the Commentariat, likened BPโs governance to โcapriciousnessโ; a fair jab. The October reversal may have unsettled some, but vitality matters more than symmetry. ย Kabirโs voice matters because it tests ours. The tension between Saffroniate and Authentistani, between critique and belief, is BPโs unique alchemy.
This conflict’s kernel, in exact 90 years intervals, starts from 1767 (Plassey), 1857 (Indian War of Independence) and 1947 (Partition). Incidentally, the timeline of these traumas runs parallel to the rise of another Anglo-inspired power: the United States; which won its own War of Independence, endured a devastating Civil War, and emerged as a global hegemon within a few years of each of those dates.
Next Steps
Active participation:ย Inactive authorships are constantlyย under review unless explained. Please confirm whether you wish to remain active.
Metrics digest:ย Launching November for all active authors.
Comments:ย If a full post feels heavy, then comment, even briefly. Small acts of engagement keep the forum alive.
Visibility:ย If you prefer to be CCโd rather than BCCโd in the monthly correspondence, let us know.
Enfin
Geoffrey Howe ended his history-making speech with: โThe time has come for others to consider their own response to the tragic conflict of loyalties with which I have wrestled for too long.โ He meant integrity, the refusal to drift into inertia disguised as patience.ย I take the same stance.
Brown Punditsย must not drift. We remain the last & pre-eminent long-form space for inter-South Asian discourse (the space has otherwise communalised and nationalised) To stay alive, we must write, argue, dissent, rebuild.
We must recognise our own biases and perhaps it takes someoneย immuredย in Persian wiles and Albionโs perfidy to serve, however inadvertently, as Shahenshah of this forum. These are, after all, theย two dominant imperial culturesย that have shaped the Subcontinent over the last millennium. Indiaโs greatest monument houses a Persian queen; its grandest railway station bears the name of a British empress.
Xerxes the Magian
I would humbly suggest you consider apologizing for using the term “Safforniate” since that is what seems to have rubbed Indosaurus the wrong way. I know that when I was (repeatedly) called an “Islamist”, I considered that personally very offensive.
It would be a shame to lose Indosaurus and Nivedita. They had valuable perspectives to add when they weren’t bashing Pakistan or Islam. But, in the end, participating or not is ultimately their choice.
I would also personally like to see BP move beyond the “India vs. Pakistan” frame.
In the spirit of an “Open Thread”, there are two pieces I found interesting today:
1) This is about Taurees Habib, who recently became the second Pakistani to win a Grammy
https://www.dawn.com/news/1952522/spotlight-science-craft-and-art
2) A review of Arundhati Roy’s new book Mother Mary Comes to Me in a Pakistani online publication
https://dunyadigital.co/profiles/navigating-arundhati-roy-s-retractions
How is Saffroniate actually offensive? Iโm curious.
It isn’t offensive to me but the category doesn’t apply to me. Clearly, Indosaurus and Nivedita don’t like the term and don’t like being called “Brahminical”.
I was speaking in a pragmatic sense that if you value their participation than perhaps you could apologize for any potential offense you may have caused. Generally, people don’t like to be put in categories that they don’t identify with. In my own case, I found being called “Islamist” very offensive because I have never once in my life advocated for Shariah Law. I am a cultural Muslim.
“I would also personally like to see BP move beyond the โIndia vs. Pakistanโ frame.”
Amen.
“J&K: Doda Admin’s Order Mandating Recitation of Vande Mataram in Schools Sparks Outrage”
https://thewire.in/government/doda-administration-vande-mataram-recitation-schools-outrage
mountain over a molehill.
Of course you would say that,
There is absolutely no reason that people in a Muslim-majority area (that too in a Disputed Territory and not in India Proper) should be made to sing a song which is inherently anti-Islamic.
Muslims do not pray or bow to any entity other than Allah. That is a basic requirement of Islam.
I think there are many religious muslims who disagree. There is a difference between worship and respect. One can express respect for your country without it being some sort of danger of religous ‘blasphemy’.
Of course, if you have a political agenda to promote ‘otherness’ then you can take such maximalist confrontational positions and accuse anyone disagreeing with you of being ‘prejudiced’. Is it any surprise that regressive entities and politicians that are incentivized to promote and perpetuate conflict are the ones most vociferously vocal in their froth to defend against the old canard of “Islam khatre mein hai”. Such behavior and mindset of course would not at all be considered liberal, but intolerant.
Except if you want to inhabit a delusional reality. Such pettiness exhibited only betrays a frog-in-the-well mindset, the socio-economic outcomes of which are there for all to see. In J&K, as well as in the military dominated “idiological” state of Pakistan.
This doesn’t affect me. I’m a Pakistani-American. No one in my life ever would make me sing a song saying that I bow to Hindu goddesses. I grew up in the US. We had to pledge allegiance to the American flag everyday. It may have been annoying but it wasn’t idol worship.
Of course there is a difference between worship and respect. You will note that no one is objecting to singing “Saray jahan say acha Hindustan hamara”. That is a song about respect for your country that doesn’t require anyone to worship idols. Muslims don’t believe in Durga. We don’t want to bow to her.
There is a consensus in Islam that idol worship is shirk. This is non-negotiable.
If you were at all objective, you would understand why it is problematic to make a non-Hindu minority in a Disputed Territory sing a song that references Hindu goddesses. Imagine for a moment, how you would feel if there was a Hindu-majority Disputed Territory in Pakistan and we were making Hindu children recite “Allah ho Akbar”. I can’t imagine you would say “making a mountain out of a molehill”
There is a consensus in Islam that idol worship is shirk. This is non-negotiable
Not just Islam all Abrahamic religion including Christianity and Bahai.
According to them there is only one God. You cannot bow to any other God
Islam is a lot stricter in terms of monotheism than say Christianity for example. The concept of the Holy Trinity (God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit) is not considered sufficiently monotheistic by Muslims. Muslims don’t believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God. According to our religion, God neither has parents nor children. We don’t even pray to the Prophet Muhammad but only to Allah.
The Catholic practice of praying to saints is not something that is permitted in Islam.
Of course Sufis do go to shrines etc but even they don’t pray directly to the saints. At least, that’s my understanding.
The Catholic practice of praying to saints is not something that is permitted in Islam.
Catholics are considered Heretics by Protestants. The liberal are too polite to say say so. Evangelicals are vocal,
When combined with political/nationalism can become violent like in Ireland.
Jesus was a heretic to Judaism, thats why he was killed/
Same with the founder of Bahai
Heretics are considered worse that non believers/pagans/ They are considered Traitors
My point was that the Islamic notion of monotheism is far stricter than the Christian one. All Christians (Catholic and Protestant) believe in the Holy Trinity. All Christians believe that Christ was the “son of God”.
These beliefs are not considered monotheistic by Muslims. Allah has neither parents nor children. We don’t pray to the Prophet Muhammad but only to Allah.
My point was that Christianity and Islam are heretical revisionism of Judaism
I wouldn’t use the word “heretical”. It is certainly true that Christianity and Islam evolved out of Judaism.
As far as Islam is concerned, we believe in all the prophets going back to Adam. Jesus (Isa as he is known to Muslims) is one of the most respected prophets. Our main difference from Christians is we don’t believe he was the son of God.
It is certainly true that Christianity and Islam evolved out of Judaism.
The New Testament and the Koran are not accepted as the Teaching of Judaism. i.e.belief contrary to orthodox Judaism
Of course. Why would you expect the parent religion to acknowledge the successor religions as correct?
The way that Muslims see it, Jews and Christians were not following Allah’s laws properly so Allah revealed the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad. Islam is supposed to be the final update of the message for all times and for all peoples.
Islam is supposed to be the final update of the message for all times and for all peoples.
Thats not what the Bahais think a “successor” to Islam/
I was giving you the orthodox Islamic view. The consensus is that after the Prophet Muhammad the institution of prophethood has ended. That is the whole issue with the Ahmadiyaas. They supposedly believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was a prophet and of course that is completely outside the fundamental beliefs of normative Muslims.
>This doesnโt affect me. Iโm a Pakistani-American.
And yet you chose to dig this random article up and insert it into the BP conversation. Gee I wonder why.
Your agenda isn’t nearly as cloaked as you think it is.
It doesn’t affect me but it certainly affects Kashmiri Muslims living in the Disputed Territory. In case you have forgotten, my family is ethnically Kashmniri.
More to the point, it shows how hollow India’s pretensions of secularism are, that Muslims are being made to sing a song that refers to Durga.
I notice you didn’t respond to the counter factual of Hindus in a Disputed Territory being made to chant “Allah ho Akbar”.
“You agenda is nearly as cloaked as you think it is”– Neither is yours. You are a Indian right-winger who hates Pakistan.
There’s no point in entertaining hypothetical “imaginary” scenarios.
I do not ‘hate’ Pakistan. or Pakistanis. I view the Pakistan citizens as helpless trapped under their feudal exploitative elite. I don’t however, bother disguising my disgust for kleptocratic parasites in uniform that are leeching from Pakistanis, or their apologists.
Pakistani ‘concerns’ for Kashmir ring hollow after the terror unleashed on J&K over 40 years. Its all a game to weaponize fantaisies of territorial acquisition.
The point of the counterfactual scenario was that if that were the case, you wouldn’t say “making a mountain out of a molehill”. Hindus would be appalled that Hindu minorities were being made to chant “Allah ho Akbar”. Similarly, Muslims are appalled that Kashmiri Muslims have to sing a song about Durga.
Kashmir has been Disputed Territory since 1947 not just since the last 40 years. So you clearly have a lack of historical understanding.
Contrary to Pakistani RW delusions, history didn’t freeze in the Pakistani illegal invasion of 1948. The Shimla agreement binds the losing party (Pakistan) to a bilateral acceptance of all issues including J&K, ergo the dispute is essentially dead.
PakMil keeps the fantasy of grabbing Kashmir from the Hindus alive, so that it can justify fleecing and exploiting its serfs for profit. Its a seductive tactic, one that clearly works on the literate as well as the illiterate. Because hatred is a more powerful force than the appeal to mutual peace and prosperity. At least for the RW-ers.
I’m sorry. Kashmir remains on the agenda of the UN. Your tallest leader (Pandit Nehru) promised that the Kashmiri people would not be joined to India at gunpoint. Not to mention that you all have annexed Kashmir to your mainland and destroyed whatever was left of Article 370.
Furthermore, if the Indus Waters Treaty can be abrogated than so can Simla.
Contrary to your Indian Right wing delusions, Kashmir is not and never will be an “integral part” of India. It is a Disputed Territory. The Line of Control is not a border. It is a ceasefire line.
Many of us Pakistanis are actually ethnically Kashmiri. You are Maharashtrian. These are my people you are talking about not yours.
This is the Richest Old-Money family in Pakistan… inside Pakistan’s Power Circle!
XTM often says that I am part of the Pakistani elite. This video describes families that actually are the Pakistani elite. Compared to them, I am just from a regular upper middle class professional family. My parents are professionals (a doctor and an economist). My grandfathers were professionals (a lawyer and a civil servant). We do not own business empires.
Full disclosure: I did go to school with the descendants of some of these families when I attended the International School of Islamabad. But the only reason I was attending that school was because my mother was working for USAID and was technically a US diplomat.
You are definitely not middle class
I said Upper middle class. Like I said, I come from a professional background. My ancestors had to work to make their living. My parents immigrated to the US and made their money there.
We are not in the same league as the Saigols, the Habibs or the Saifullahs. That was my point.
But even so the elite in Pakistan is the 1%
Defence | DHA | particular localities where ppl have independent homes
I don’t think that everyone who lives in DHA qualifies as elite. Most people who buy land and or houses in DHA are upper middle class professionals. DHA is like an equivalent of a posh American suburb.
If you watch the video I linked, you will find that it is discussing families whose net worth is in millions or billions of dollars. My family is certainly not in that category.
I’m certainly not denying that we have had certain historical advantages. My parents both went to convent schools in Lahore. They both have advanced professional degrees from the US. Both speak fluent English. But we are not among those who own vast quantities of land or entire business houses.
The Passing of “General Shanti”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUvaB9wy6lo
“Bihar election 2025: Why CPI(M-L) is a big factor this time|Dipankar explains ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4O60KWe0sc
“India doesn’t have a right wing” by Rohit Shinde
https://rshinde.substack.com/p/india-doesnt-have-a-right-wing
I don’t agree with a lot of it obviously but maybe the Commentariat will relate.