[A note to readers: BB’s open thread is taking a short break while he recalibrates to high-signal posting]
Pakistan Strikes a Hospital in Kabul.
Late on Monday night, the 28th night of Ramadan, a missile struck the Omid (“Hope”) Addiction Treatment Hospital in Kabul. It is a 2,000-bed facility built in a former NATO camp, housing thousands of young Afghans receiving treatment for drug dependency. Witnesses said they heard three explosions just as patients were completing evening prayers. Two bombs struck patient rooms directly. “The whole place caught fire. It was like doomsday,” one survivor told Reuters. Al Jazeera
Taliban authorities say 408 were killed and 265 injured; figures that remain unverified by any independent party, though the physical destruction of the hospital and the ongoing rescue operation are not in dispute. Rescuers were still pulling bodies from rubble by flashlight through the night. The UN human rights expert for Afghanistan, Richard Bennett, said he was “dismayed” and urged all parties to “respect international law, including the protection of civilians and civilian objects such as hospitals.” ABC News
Pakistan insists its strikes “precisely targeted military installations and terrorist support infrastructure” in Kabul and Nangarhar, with targeting “carefully undertaken to ensure no collateral damage.” CP24
One witness at the scene noted military units were positioned around the hospital perimeter; which may explain the targeting logic, if not excuse it. No secondary explosions consistent with an arms depot were filmed.
The pattern matters as much as the incident.
This conflict, the most severe between the two neighbours in years, began in late February when Afghanistan launched cross-border attacks in response to Pakistani airstrikes that Kabul said killed civilians. A Qatar-brokered ceasefire was shattered.
Pakistan has since declared itself in open war with Afghanistan. NPR
The structural parallel with Gaza is not rhetorical; it is operational. One side has an air force and the other does not. One side can strike a capital city’s hospitals; the other cannot reach Islamabad. When a militarily superior power wages war in dense civilian terrain, whatever the provocation, the asymmetry of suffering becomes the story, regardless of who started it. Pakistan’s stated casus belli, TTP cross-border attacks facilitated by the Taliban, is real. But the civilian body count accumulating in Kabul is also real, and the two facts sit in the same moral universe.
There is a principle here that should not require repetition but apparently does: hospitals are protected under international humanitarian law not because the patients inside are innocent of politics, but because the sanctity of medical care is a floor beneath which no military logic is permitted to descend. Drug addicts in a rehab ward on the 28th night of Ramadan are not combatants. Bombing them, intentionally or through reckless proximity, is not a precision strike. It is a massacre.
China’s special envoy has been shuttling between Kabul and Islamabad urging a ceasefire. CBS News
He has nothing to show for it. Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State are both present in the region and actively trying to resurface. NPR
A full Pakistan-Afghanistan war is the vacuum they have been waiting for. Islamabad’s generals may believe they are winning. History suggests otherwise.
Pakistanis making fun of Palestinians.
how is SM trash relevant. Lets not resort to elevating such nonsense.
Meanwhile, Ali Wazir has been reportedly disappeared, once again.
The portents are not looking good for Pakistan, and its to a degree, understandable why the ‘open war’ against Afghanistan is being used to try and rally support.
There is one fundamental difference between Afghanistan and Palestine. Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are internationally considered Occupied Palestinian Territory. Afghanistan is a sovereign nation.
Gaza has been compared to an open air prison (this is quite mild language) for years. The same cannot be said for Afghanistan.
I really hope that Pakistan did not intentionally strike a hospital. If it did, I am not going to defend it. For what it’s worth, our information ministry says such claims are baseless.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1983000/information-ministry-rubbishes-afghan-talibans-claims-of-hospital-being-hit-in-kabul
On the larger issue: All Afghanistan has to do is stop allowing the TTP to plan anti-Pakistan activity. If they choose not to do so, Pakistan is fully within its rights to take defensive action. The safety and security of Pakistani citizens is paramount. Afghanistan should know better than to antagonize a much more militarily powerful state.
This was the same logic that operated during “Operation Sindoor” no?
So murdering civilians with air strikes in a ‘sovereign nation’ is halal?
Pakistan has been mistreating Afghans horrifically for years now. The forced migration of millions of Afghans, vast numbers of whom were actually born and raised in Pakistan, was a shameful violation of human rights.
>This was the same logic that operated during “Operation Sindoor” no?
So are you asserting that Indian actions against LeT and JeM in Operation Sindoor is justified?
Btw, Indian strikes were quite accurately limited to terrorist bases and PakMil military locations. Not targeting civilian airfields or hospitals.
There is a marked difference in the conduct of the Pakistani military and their Indian counterparts. The former disowns their own soldiers, while the latter respects even the enemy fallen. There is no …. ‘sem 2 sem’
1) You are only a Pakistani citizen if you have Pakistani parents. Afghan refugees were never promised Pakistani citizenship.
2) India says it only struck “terrorist bases”. Pakistani know India killed Pakistani women and children. India struck mosques and schools.
Don’t play the innocent.
.
“Don’t play the innocent” is perfectly correct English.
Don’t play this game with me.
Admin Note: you are at risk of your comments being mass deleted
Admin Note: in this case the comment, in its entirety, has been preserved but the Operation Sindoor comparisons are baseless and justifying civilian massacre. It is Offensive.
1) You are only a Pakistani citizen if you have Pakistani parents. Or if a non-Pakistani woman marries a Pakistani. That’s the law.
Refugees were never promised citizenship.
2) India says it only struck “terrorist bases”. Pakistanis know India killed women and children. India struck mosques and schools.
If India is allowed to take whatever actions it deems necessary for its national security–and surely as an Indian nationalist you think that it is allowed to do so– than so is Pakistan.
Our national security is paramount.
Bombing hospitals and airports in Kabul does not enhance Pakistan’s national security. It endangers it.
Just like the Umreeki war on Iran is immoral, Pakistan’s ‘open war’ on Afghanistan is similarly questionable, at a minimum.
The ‘national security’ justification does not hold water. All logic indicates that prolonged hostilities with the Taliban are going to increase the risk to Pakistani civilians, not deter them.
The Taliban refused to surrender to the Russians, or to the Americans during the WoT. Does PakMil really believe it can get a better outcome?
+1
So–according to you– Pakistan is just supposed to accept that Afghanistan will host TTP and allow them to plan and execute anti-Pakistan activities?
If that’s the logic then India should accept that Pakistani non-state actors will continue to operate in the Disputed Territory.
If you won’t accept the logic when it comes to you then don’t expect us to accept it when it comes to us.
India says it didn’t kill civilians. Pakistan says it did.
Funerals were held for the children killed. They were not “terrorists” by any stretch of the imagination.
I’m not justifying civilian casualties.
They were known terrorist hideouts.
Kabir, civilian deaths are always unjustifiable. Omid Hospital was a groundbreaking institute in drug rehabilitation; this speaks to deliberate action rather than incidental.
PakMil previously bombed civilian airports – the bombings in Kabul and Kandahar has quite overtly not been restricted to military targets. Its been punitive in nature and gone after economic assets, howsoever limited, that the Afghans have.
Its quite indefensible really. You should really do a post on how Pakistan forcibly “repatriated” millions upon millions of civilians back into Afghanistan, a big chunk of those, actual birthright citizens of Pakistan. If I do it, it will get dismissed as “anti-Pakistan”.
Pakistan’s treatment of Afghanistan since the 1980s has been quite, something.
you are welcome to write that post.
I am explicitly attempting to restrict myself to comments on Pakistan not ‘posts’. To some degree, I accept Kabir’s pushback that criticism of Pakistan should be more driven by Pakistanis themselves.
I will write a post on Pakistan-related topic if I have something noteworthy to say. Unfortunately, the chaos, the corruption, the exploitation of its entrapped citizens – none of that is new at all.
Pakistan doesn’t have “birthright” citizens. Check your facts.
You can only be a Pakistani citizen if you have Pakistani parents. That’s the law. It doesn’t matter where you are born.
Kabir the law is not always correct or moral. RNJ does make a good point; Pakistan expelled people who were “essentially” Pakistanis.
Surely, every country has the right to decide whether they want to do “birthright” citizenship or not.
Pakistan doesn’t do so.
Afghans are not Pakistani by blood.
I’m not defending bombing a hospital.
Our Information Ministry says that claim is baseless. I will always trust Pakistan’s information ministry over claims on social media.
that’s absurd Kabir it is all over international news
I will always trust Pakistan’s government.
This time “It’s all over social media” does not work?
Your beloved “international” sources are reporting it btw.
The biggest issue with this “open war” unleashed by Muneer against the Afghans, is that it actually does not hold the ‘safety and security of pakistani citizens as paramount’.
The careless escalation of military strikes against Afghan cities and civilians is going to increase risks for Pakistani civilians. But that is completely fine for the fedual overlords of PakMil. In fact, if there are retaliatory strikes by Afghans in Pakistan, that cause more casualties, that will only serve to strengthen the PakMil’s hold on Pakistan.
Its a broken record cliche, but it holds true. The incentives for choices made by those that govern Pakistan are not aligned with what is in the interests of Pakistani citizens. And this divergence explains why the Pakistani state finds itself in its bankrupt basket-case state. From security, to governance, to economy, to cricket. The kleptocracy makes choices that benefits them, not the country or its citizens.
And its a shame that folks that consider themselves to be ‘patriots’ are unwilling or incapable of uttering a peep against it.
National security policy is determined by Pak Fauj and not by Indians.
So your opinions are irrelevant.
and Pakistanis are reaping the whirlwind as a consequence.
I trust Pak Fauj far more than I trust you.
You are Indian. India is Pakistan’s inimical enemy.
I am not Pakistan’s enemy, nor yours.
Btw, many an educated Pakistani has been questioning “Munir’s folly” in declaring ‘open war’ against Afghan ‘brothers’.
The Failed Marshal is destined to follow in Ayub Khan’s footsteps – Ayub bequeathed 1971 to Pakistan. What will Asim?
Keep digging.
Don’t ever insult the Field Marshal.
India is a hostile state to Pakistan. That’s just a fact–since you like facts so much.
Pakistan better pray against Drumpf’s Iran regime change Op failing. Because if it succeeds and Iran fragments….
But oops, Mr Failed Marshal has delivered Pakistan compliance to Drumpf in the oval office along with a briefcase of ‘rare earths’….
@XTM:
There is absolutely no call for this “Failed Marshal”. It’s very offensive.
Disrespect for Pak Fauj is a red line for Pakistanis.
Because he is?
This is what a real Field Marshal looks like.
Sam Manekshaw – the man who broke Pakistan into two.
There is no call to disrespect Pak Fauj.
Only anti-Pakistan trolls do this.
Reality is bitter but it is reality sadly.
None of what I said was not factual.
Sam Manekshaw became Field Marshal – FACT
Sam Manekshaw broke Pakistan into two in 1971 – FACT
> Don’t ever insult the Field Marshal
A new prophet has arrived. LMAO
We have given up moderating this thread alas
If Indians don’t take kindly to Pakistanis insulting “Hindu Hriday Samrat”, Pakistanis don’t take kindly to insults to Pak Fauj.
See the logic?
Chup. Failed Marshall.
TTP attacks have almost stopped since the war started. So it’s a good thing clearly.
Pakistan is destroying the $10billion weapons cache that the Americans abandoned when running away.
Once the militants are degraded, stikes can continue and costs will be imposed on the Afghan government for continuing to host them.
If they don’t agree, this should continue until the Afghan government collapses and is replaced by someone else.
Long term (10-50 years) I believe Pakistan should annex Afghanistan after taking over.
Naah, this is wishful fantasy. There is going to be no taking over or annexation.
The world won’t let them and Pakistan is too small a player to go against the world’s wishes.
Not to mention taking over will be a super difficult and costly operation, both in terms of lives and economy.
The max they can do is strikes which is not enough to finish off Taliban(USA did it for many years).
Pakistan will keep striking. TTP attacks will keep happening.
Rinse. Repeat.
@X.T.M: Settler colonial fantasies with calls for genocide considering these “strikes” hit hospitals and killed innocents.
“the world won’t let them”
All I am going to say is: LOL
LOL back at you.
Pakistan has an economy smaller than countries like Romania and Colombia and is dependent on imports for almost everything and has no sizeable exports. It does not decide its destiny independently.
Any expeditionary attempt will be met with pushback from far far larger powers who will then impose actual costs on Pakistan rather than the “condemnation for innocent lives lost” rhetoric.
Pakistan knows it is only “allowed” strikes on Afghanistan which it will continue to do.
Taliban, lacking conventionally military only has terror attacks in its kitty which it will continue to do.
Rinse. Repeat.
You have no idea what “Settler colonial” means.
I think trying to “conquer” Afghans who have no interest in being part of Pakistan is “Settler colonial”.
An in your own language – Afghanistan is recognized internationally as a distinct state.
BB emailed us to alert us to this comment.
AfPak is something we have been writing on for decades. Golestani as a Persianate Union of the Stans though it should be voluntary.
But in any such Union; Persian would have to be the official language.
As an aside we have stopped monitoring this thread.
BB has no other retort apart from calling Pakistan poor and bankrupt. That’s when he is sitting at 2900 GDP per capita which is 30% inflated according to recent reports.
At least I should be allowed to retort back about ‘counting coppers’ .
I think Persian is an irrelevant lanaguage now, especially when Urdu’s output these days even exceeds that of Arabic.
The Afghanistan problem has only one solution and that is eventual merger/annexation by Pakistan of Afghanistan. However there is a lot of workd to be done on this. In the new world order, smaller & weaker countries will be gobbled up. I don’t see a bright future for countries like Israel, Lebanon, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain. Half of these may not exist in the next 10 years.
Pakistan being “poor and bankrupt” is a reality.
That 3050 (not 2900) is still twice that of Pakistan’s ~1500 and the gap is growing larger year by year.
For Pakistan to reach India’s “current” level of GDP pci/HDI will take 25-30 years with their growth rate.
A decade from now SQ will cope by saying India is sitting at “just” 8000 while Pak is barely at 2000. A decade from then, “just” 18000 while Pak is at 3500.
30% inflated according to random reports is a Pakistani cope like Pakistan’s “undocumented economy”.
Considering Pakistan’s per capita electricity consumption is less than a third of India’s as well as being behind in every consumption metric (often by orders of magnitude like 40-50x), it is Pakistan’s GDP which is “inflated”.
In reality their pci is probably closer to a $1000.
And the last paragraph is the ultimate cope/wish fulfillment.
Countries which are richer than Pakistan and far higher up the value chain will be “gobbled up” and “not exist” while Pakistan who has had a history of being bifurcated will survive.
Mind you, Israel and UAE have larger GDPs than Pakistan, not just GDP per capita.
It is Pakistan who is the “small and weak” country, not those you have mentioned who have value to offer to the world.
And the “annexation” of Afghanistan is the funniest thing.
Please try. Please please try.
It will bankrupt the country further as it becomes a long protracted warExtreme loss of life throughout the country including in places like Lahore and KarachiIt becomes an ethnic civil war at some point with Pashtuns joining their Afghan brethren. There is a reason Imran Khan/PTI make the noises they doSanctions/retaliations by larger powers/other Islamic groupsBoth Afghanistan and NWFP have higher TFRs compared to Punjabis (even Balochis tbh). That is a pain point Pakistan will have to contend with, “annexation” or not
But please try, I am looking forward to it.
There is never going to be a union.
Pakistan will not be saddled with Afghans.
The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s geographic extent is perfect.
Afghanistan has legitimate grievances including the illegal colonial era Durand line.
People of NWFP didn’t even want to join Pakistan.
Now you are just gloating and dragging unnecessary and irrelevant history into this thread. Its counter-productive.
Not really. I am replying to @Kabir’s suggestions of Afghanistan stopping their attacks on Pakistan.
Afghanistan won’t just lie back and stop attacking Pakistan unless the Durand line is resolved.
Pakistanis cannot expect Afghans to accept the Durand line when they themselves cannot accept the LOC.
Kashmir has never been part of Pakistan, an entity formed in 1947.
Peshawar has been part of the Afghan empire for many many centuries.
Afghans will never accept the Durand Line.
Nonsense – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_North-West_Frontier_Province_referendum
The North-West Frontier Province referendum (Pashto: د شمال لویدیځ سرحدي ایالت ټولپوښتنه) was held in July 1947 to decide whether the North-West Frontier Provinceof British India would join the Dominion of India or Pakistan upon the Partition of India. The polling began on 6 July and the results were made public on 20 July. Out of the total population of 4 million in the NWFP, only 572,798 were eligible to vote, of whom only 51.00% voted in the referendum. 289,244 (99.02%) of the votes were cast in favor of Pakistan and only 2,874 (0.98%) in favor of India.[1][2]
The NWFP Chief Minister Khan Abdul Jabbar Khan (Dr. Khan Sahib), his brother Abdul Ghaffar Khan, and the Khudai Khidmatgars boycotted the referendum, citing that it did not have the options of the NWFP becoming independent or joining Afghanistan.[3][4] Their appeal for boycott had an effect, as according to an estimate, the total turnout for the referendum was 15% lower than the total turnout in the 1946 elections.[5]
Because of the boycott like you mentioned.
NWFP people followed Bacha Khan and he didn’t want to be part of Pakistan.
Boycott reduced 15% of the vote; increase the signal of your comments pls
Bacha Khan’s imprisonment by Pakistan mirrors how the Abdullahs in J&K were treated by India.
This is why ‘re-litigating partition or borders’ in Ind/Pak is a waste of time. Its a luxury that sub-saharan level economies can ill-afford.
Not especially – if Baluchistan is not Kashmir, NWFP
Is certainly not Kashmir ..
of course it isn’t. But the parallel I pointed out, kinda holds. Anyway, I’m not extrapolating from that to question NWFP is somehow disputed. Just an observation.
KPK. “NWFP” was a British colonial name.
“NWFP” was part of British India. There’s no question of it being disputed.
Afghans dispute it.
So what?
They cannot take an inch of Pakistani territory. Our territorial integrity trumps everything.
Not formally. But they (and BLA) have made a lot of areas no go zones.
De facto, Pakistan might control Balochistan and NWFP but on the ground, the scenario is different.
>Their appeal for boycott had an effect, as according to an estimate, the total turnout for the referendum was 15% lower than the total turnout in the 1946 elections
whose estimate, how reliable. Its funny how numbers can mislead. The 15% carries a catchet of ‘hard data’, when in fact its just someone’s estimate, with no context provided on how it was ‘measured’, or whether the person coming up with it had any motivation to skew it one way or the other.
Anyway, such an argument is meaningless at this point. Its all …water under the bridge.
1947 NWFP referendum:
Registered voters/eligible electorate: 572,798
Total votes cast/turnout: 292,118 (approximately 51% turnout)
Votes for Pakistan: 289,244
Votes for India: 2,874
Percentage of valid votes for Pakistan: 99.02% (of the votes cast)
Percentage of the total electorate for Pakistan: Approximately 50.5%(since turnout was 51%, and nearly all votes were for Pakistan)
Can we put this issue to bed or people are going to still whine about it 80 years after the fact?
Again, the most dominant political party by far, Bacha Khan’s, boycotted the referendum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babrra_massacre
why did this happen then?
The call for boycott failed. The turnout was 51% which is pretty standard for South Asian politics, and more than 50% of the total electorate voted for Pakistan. There is aboslutely no controversy on this referrendum. No allegations of rigging, nothing.
If you want to actually understand more of this issue, read up in detail the British accounts on Nehru’s tour of NWFP and FATA in 1946 and how he was treated and what was said.
Both India and Afghanistan expected Pakistan to capitulate soon after 1947 so they could feed off its corpse, but nothing of that sort happened. Afghans have kept alive this issue so they can press on it in the future, while Indians harbor the same dreams, just more discretely. But Pakistan only gets stronger with time.
There was something that happened in 1971 though.
We have nuclear weapons now.
Will you use them against TTP members in your own cities who are indistinguishable from Pakistani Pathans?
The nuclear weapons are meant to be used against existential threats.
The territorial integrity of Pakistan is a red line.
Funny this definition of stronger. Was Pakistan ‘stronger’ in 1970? Is it stronger today than it was in 1990?
From a hard-right bare-knuckles Indian perspective, Pakistan serves as a physical firewall and a historical amputation of a toxic ideology. Its zombie existence is less of a threat than a ‘corpse’.
Different lifestyle, different choices. If both sides are satisfied, what is the problem here?
Honestly, none at all. Peaceful co-existence can and should be inevitable.
But 26/11, Pahalgam etc etc keep getting deployed by PakMil to sustain their kleptocracy.
Too bad for you, Pak Fauj will remain strong.
The more your country indulges in anti-Pakistan actions, the stronger Pak Fauj gets.
That is an L, Kabir.
Pak Fauj Zindabad.
I don’t care about the opinions of citizens of hostile states.
Your anti-Pakistan animus is so tiresome at this point.
Zindabad at the cost of Pakistani qaum who remain a third world citizenry while their fellow South Asians become richer and richer.
Being treated like shit by whites and Arabs might have been palatable for Pakistanis, but how will they like it in 20-30 years when 4-5x richer Indians and Bangladeshis treat Pakistanis like dirt?
2x richer Indians already treat Pakistanis with disdain. What do you think it is going to look like when it is 4-5x by mid century?
India is a poor third world country.
You people are not hot shit.
Pakistan are a POORER third world country. And it is not even growing so it will remain so.
And India is very much hot shit. That is why companies around the world are setting up stuff here.
The world knows what India is going to be. A country of 1.4 billion (and growing) with a 7-8% GDP growth rate is basically one of the growth engines of the world.
I know you are not some random dehati and know all this already and see it. The semiconductor push, the AI push.
Gap is only going to grow grow grow.
India is never going to be a first world country.
Your country is full of uneducated and malnurished people.
You can take comfort that you’re doing better than Pakistan but you will never be the US.
Haha the Pakistani fear, the Pakistani cope
India will be a first world country by 2050 and you will see it happen live in front of your eyes.
India right now is already a 0.685 HDI, $3000 GDP pci, $12000 GDP PPP pci country.
Considering its growth, India will be at 0.84 HDI, $14000 GDP pci, $32000 GDP ppp pci by 2050 making it roughly par with the lower end of first world countries like Chile, Argentina, Malaysia etc except with 1.65 billion people.
That should be enough to make it the third pole. Then in the latter half of the century, number 1 beckons.
India’s literacy rate has increased a lot and malnourishment has decreased. Youth literacy rate is universal.
Pakistani minds cannot fathom the concept of a country improving cause theirs is stuck.
A lot of pain for you over the years as you see India improving and improving and widening the game.
Pakistan ka mustakbil ab Hindustan tay karega.
“Pakistani minds– My dear, I am an American national. You are not.
Enough said.
India will never be a superpower and it certainly will never be the US.
You have been deported, Kabir. You might be an “American citizen” but right now you are a 40 year old unmarried man living with his parents.
The USA has banned immigration from Pakistan.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/News/visas-news/immigrant-visa-processing-updates-for-nationalities-at-high-risk-of-public-benefits-usage.html
Is this why you were deported?”High Risk of U.S. Public Benefits Reliance”?
India will be a superpower and you will cry about it.
@XTM:
Accusations that i have been “deported” are beyond the pale.
BB, don’t get personal with me: My marital status is none of your business.
Immigrant visas are neither here nor there. I have had an American passport for over two decades.
India will NEVER be a superpower.
BB has been warned; a page of his comments (his last 20) have been arbitrarily removed to trash.
He knows NEVER to get personal. You may amend your responses, since we are not reading the comments, other methods of communication / alert (the email is on the left) is advised for a prompt.
when a Pakistani says 26/11 is simply “too bad”, now …that’s offensive.
I have never defended terrorist actions.
You seem to be OK with the deaths of Pakistani children.
You are truly scum.
I have noticed that the only threads here that are getting hundreds of comments are the ones where you and BB can shit on Pakistan.
Both you need to get lives.
Go watch Dhurandhar: The Revenge. It is releasing today.
Once again, I do not watch Bollywood trash. Neither do i watch anything anti-Pakistan.
Your obsession with this movie is very disturbing.
No amount of movies will change reality. Not an inch of Pakistan will be lost.
We will deal with India’s proxies.
It is not trash, a masterpiece which third world Pakistanis cannot even conceive of, let alone make.
Your entire country was going mad for it.
More than half of Pakistan was lost in 1971.
Future is bleak.
You and I clearly have different tastes in movies. That’s fine.
“More than half of Pakistan was lost in 1971”– Yes, well it’s not 1971 anymore. Pakistan is a nuclear weapon state.
If you attempt to damage our territorial integrity, the nukes come out.
You are free to live in your Bollywood fantasy but that’s not reality.
You are a Pakistani. You have no taste in art. Your mind cannot comprehend art.
Your nukes don’t work – just like your cricket team.
Your reality is bleak. You are doomed for eternity. A failed state. A slave nation.
“You have no taste in art”– LOL!
I am a Hindustani classical musician. You haven’t demonstrated the ability to sing khayal.
You haven’t read all of Shakespeare. I have.
This is a truly ridiculous comment.
For the umpteenth time, the Durand Line was the border between British India and Afghanistan. Pakistan inherited that border in 1947.
The Durand Line is not like the “Line of Control”. It’s a settled border not a ceasefire line. It is equivalent to the Radcliffe Line.
“NWFP” is a British colonial name. The place is called KPK.
Admin Note: this is irrelevant. The TTP has been carrying out terrroist actions; don’t just terrorism BB.
Not “settled” according to Afghans.
It’s a settled question in International Law. The Durand Line is like the Radcliffe Line.
“International law” is irrelevant.
Iran has no boundary disputes with Israel/USA and getting bombed.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, NWFP is stolen land.
If Iran had nukes, they would not be getting bombed.
Pakistan has nukes. Thank God.
No it actually isn’t.
Every single country on earth (except Afghanistan) recognizes the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
The Durand Line is NOT a ceasefire line. The LOC is.
And Afghanistan is the country that matters. Not “every single country other than Afghanistan”.
So according to your own logic, Pakistan thinks the LOC is a ceasefire line.
Get over it.
And Afghanistan is not capable of taking an inch of Pakistani land. Pak Fauj will destroy them.
But they are very capable of turning large swathes of KPK (and Balochistan by the BLA) to no go zones.
Plus considering they are indistinguishable from Pakistani pathans can easily slip into Islamabad, Karachi, even Lahore to cause mayhem.
Op Sindoor didn’t bomb a hospital as you know
Op Sindoor bombed a mosque and a seminary housing women and children.
That was a famous terrorist centre.
Now who’s justifying civilian casualties?
You clearly don’t think that Pakistani women and children matter.
We are not going to forget.
No one’s justifying civilian casualties. That was a famous terror hideout and has been confirmed by Pakistanis themselves.
The Kabul hospital was nothing of that sort.
Keep digging.
Your country killed Pakistani women and children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB4KUCT8hro
https://news.sky.com/story/terror-group-supporters-posted-on-tiktok-youtube-and-google-from-site-targeted-in-indian-airstrikes-13363716
In the 21st century, its Satyam Eva Jayate
The truth will out, and even independent media confirmed evidence that the so-called mosques operated as HQ for ‘Mujahid force’ and ‘313 Brigades’.
The fact that apparently educated ‘patriots’ like you are so willing to provide covering fire and camouflage for terrorists is symptomatic of what went so wrong for Pakistani boomers.
The next generation hopefully stays away from such prejudice and hatred – to the extent that an American educated ‘musicologist’ is willing to be a terror apologist. This planet doesn’t need anymore David Headleys.
India killed Pakistani children.
This is reality.
Are you calling those children terrorists? If so, you are justifying civilian casualties. You have no moral high ground over Pakistan.
Why is musicologist in quotes? I will not stand for personal disrespect.
You did not bomb any terrorists. You just bombed a mosque, killed several innocent people including women and chidlren, your media showed images of dead & injured people being taken to hospital to satisfy your nation’s bloodlust and a damaged mosque to satisfy the Hindutva brigade.
All without providing any evidence for Pahalgham to anyone including your own media.
I don’t think Pakistan targeted any Hindu temple or even RSS seminaries, we only target military installations, just like we did yesterday.
Those were known terror hideouts confirmed by Pakistani civilians themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB4KUCT8hro
Used in Ind-Pak cricket WC matches too
Kabir, you might be gloating and celebrating the death of civilians here but let me tell you – the Afghans do not forget.
Their vengeance will be great and it will consume all of Pakistan.
Admin Note: stop sounding genocidal Kabir
.
Afghanistan is not capable of defeating Pakistan.
But it is capable of making Pakistan bleed perpetually like it has for the last two years and for most of the late 2000s and early 2010s.
In that time period, Pakistan’s economy hardly grew.
Combine with Balochistan and the water issues (compounded by IWT in abeyance), hard times are coming.
Keep imagining bad times for Pakistan.
Pak Fauj will deal with all threats. Don’t ever underestimate Pak Fauj,
Imagine?
You are living through it.
Anemic economy, regular terror attacks.
We have seen Surrenderistan’s Pak Fauj many times lol.
Only good for beating up PTI workers.
Ok.
We are nuclear armed.
Deal with reality.
Also poorer than sub saharan Africa with anemic growth rates and security issues.
Deal with reality.
Afghan brothers, just hold till the 2040s.
Post that you get Kusha, Tejas, AMCA etc
Tab mazaa aayega na bhidu.
The blast clearly shows ammunition depot being hit with ammo being cooked in the aftermath clear from several videos. So clearly the strike was on point but resulted in the adjacent buildings catching fire. It is the Afghan governmennt that is primarily to blame for housing recovering drug addicts in a military installation, but this is their modus operandi. Regardless, any civilian deaths are always very regrettable and targets must be chosen with more deliberation to avoid any civilian casulaties. An independent enquiry should also be conducted because there is no way there were 400 people killed unless they were targeted directly – I have seen videos and outside of 4 or 5 bodies, it’s nothing like the footages we have seen from Gaza so the comparision is moot.
This entire war is 100% the fault of Afghanistan and it’s Taliban led government. Every single faction in Afghanistan has sought and recieved support from Pakistan and in turn backstabbed us because of irredentist claims on our territory. Pakistan has hosted millions of Afghan refugess, many of whom got citizenship and ran sucessful business, at a great economic and social cost and yet all of them hate Pakistan and Pakistanis.
Afghans have attacked and killed 4000+ Pakistanis in the past four years alone, including just today where a mosque was targeted. Once TTA decided to join hands with India, their status was sealed.
The war can end for good tomorrow if the Afghan government simply does two things:
1) Written Fatwa from their Emir denouncing the TTP and any terrorists groups attacking Pakistan
2) Recognize the Durand line as the international border.
If they cannot do that, then the future looks grim for them.
The faujeet apologists are here.
And it is not Afghanistan whose future is grim.
The Taliban have no ambitions of being a “proper” nation with economic growth. They can keep this up forever.
It is Pakistan who will be stuck in their late 2000s -early 2010s quagmire as Afghanistan makes Pakistan bleed.
Like the great Dr Omar said – it is Pakistan’s fate to become a part of the “Middle East” and not “Asia”.
Exactly!
Afghans have been living in Pakistan on fake Pakistani ID cards. The resources of Pakistan belong to 250 million Pakistanis not to Afghans.
If Afghanistan wants to conduct anti-Pakistan activities, Pakistan will take whatever action necessary.
There will be zero tolerance for anti-Pakistan activities.
@ Bombay Badshah
“The Taliban have no ambitions of being a “proper” nation with economic growth.”
What makes you think we are any different? We also can keep this up forever and we also don’t forget.
Indians should continue counting coppers like they always have, always a step behind the times.
Guy wants Afghans to hold on till 2040, but at this rate they will be wrapped up by the end of the year.
Honestly, there was a lot of love in Pakistani boomers for Afghansitan but the newer generation has grown up seeing terrorist attacks and suicide bombings and Afghan betrayal and ungratefulness, they will be less forgiving.
I repeat: any civilian deaths are very regretful, but more videos are now coming out in sunlight, that just prove that the Taliban claims are just false and Indian propaganda channels have been running with it.
Bragging about being an economic basketcase engaged in perpetual war lol.
Wrap up by end of the year how? You are going to occupy Afghanistan and prop up a parallel government there?
As long as Afghans exist, they will keep engaging in attacks.
Pakistan is a much stronger military power than Afghanistan yes and will inflict more damage but they are not so strong that they can completely occupy Afghanistan and put a friendly regime in place. Even Americans with a 100x economy couldn’t.
That means there will always be attacks throughout Pakistan.
Pakistan can “kill” more but Afghanistan will ensure enough damage to Pakistan that there is pain (eg Iran currently).
This just means Pakistan remains perpetually poor while the rest of the subcontinent leaves it behind.
Fine by me. We are satisfied playing like this.
Are you?
If yes, why are you complaining?
I’m not complaining, just stating facts.
This is a cause of celebration, not complaint.
Pakistan being bogged down by Afghanistan is good news for India.
@Kabir
Yes sir, I remember us (myself directly included) helping out so many Afghan refugees in our country, considering them our brothers, donating to them, advocating for them, even was in favor of giving them citizenship, but over the years realized they harbor extreme hatrded towards us and want to actively harm us. They don’t hate Russia, US, or 32 other countries for bombing and occupying them.
Here is the reality of the situation.
Pakistan have an actual military and an air force so they can inflict way more harm on Afghanistan than vice versa.
But they are not strong enough that they can takeover Kabul and put a pliant government in charge.
So Afghanistan will be under Taliban control for the foreseeable future.
Now that would have been okay if the Taliban cared for their people and wanted economic growth yada yada.
This is the reason why Ind/Pak skirmishes never exceed a certain point. At their core both are normalish countries – Ind more so than Pak but even the Pak mil who runs things in Pak want to make money (for themselves if not for the populace), have their DHA plots etc.
But the Taliban are a bunch of Islamic crazies who don’t want any of this. For them, NWFP is their sacred land which has been stolen by the British and they want it back.
Anything other than total elimination will not stop them and Pak don’t have that ability.
So that means no matter how many air strikes are carried out in Afghanistan, the Taliban will keep imposing a cost in Pakistan via terror attacks.
And that just means Pakistan keep fighting a perpetual war and remain an economic basketcase while the rest of the neighbourhood grow richer and leave “third world station” where Pakistan seems fated to be a permanent denizen.
Pak now has the lowest HDI in the subcontinent and in five years when Nepal surpasses their GDP pci, the lowest GDP pci as well.
In a handful of years, Nepal is going to potentially start reaping a potential tourism bonanza as the new Indian middle class starts spending INR. They just need a modicum of political stability.
In an alternate timeline, Pakistan potentially could similarly benefit.
Just look at Sri Lanka – a record half a million Indian tourists, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in tourism revenue. And the number is sharply trending up.
The peace dividend with India is there for the taking. Only the kleptocracy and its vested interests stand in the way.
https://thediplomat.com/2026/02/beyond-the-ramayana-trail-why-indian-tourists-matter-more-than-ever-to-sri-lanka/
You have a point – The Taliban can… ‘Pakistan’ Pakistan far more effectively and sustainably than Pakistan could ‘Pakistan’ India.
India has …managed to level up economically and afford better security along its frontier. Better geography also helps.
An interesting thing I came upon.
Terrorist activity in J&K versus time.
Post 2001 “war on terror” the numbers keep declining till 2016 when the TTP were defeated for a while.
Then a slight increase until 2021 then a further decrease when the TTP restarted their activities.
https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/india-jammukashmir
You can actually compare directly with Pakistan’s numbers which follow the same timeline but in opposite direction.
https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/pakistan
Afghanistan is at risk of dismemberment. Pakistan and Tajikistan should do it while there is an opening.
Occupation or merger is not possible. Pakistan does not have the capacity military or otherwise.
If the approaches to Salang tunnel are destroyed in airstrikes, that would mean Pakistan is serious about dismemberment. Breaks the backbone of Afghan state.
If Afghanistan ever has the aerial upper hand, they will go for Lowari tunnel, ripping away Chitral and the entire valley north clean.
Indian equivalent are Banihal or Sela.
On multiple mountain passes along Durand line, Pakistan spills over a few miles to the other side of the ridge. Could have been hard to defend if Afghanistan was relatively strong. Think Keran and Leepa on LoC.
Khost-Parachinar area is open to change and making the border logical and defensible. Think Shakargarh on Pakistani side or Poonch on Indian side.
Most likely outcome if Pakistan really commits, is a buffer like the one inside Syria patrolled by Turkish troops. Civil war in Afghanistan is prerequisite for any of this.
Very high signal comment in terms of the facts.
Pakistan then becomes a Pashtun state; Iran would probably want Herat etc. But Afghan nationalism is very strong.
Pakistan has no interest in annexing Afghanistan or in becoming a Pashtun state.
Our interest is in replacing the Taliban with a pro-Pakistan regime.
No regime in Afghanistan will let NWFP be.
Remember, Taliban was the “pro-Pakistan” regime in 2021 when they took over.
There is no such thing as “NWFP” That’s a British colonial name.
Pakistan’s territorial integrity is a red line.
Ashraf Ghani’s government was not taking anti-Pakistan actions like the Taliban is currently taking.
In retrospect, bringing Ghani’s government down was a big mistake that Pakistan made.
Admin Note: this is a low-signal comment.
Also check the Precedent category; there are clear indications Pakistan has done and is doing very well diplomatically +
Militarily
waitaminnit, wasn’t replacing Ghani with the Taliban the Pakistani masterstroke of getting a ‘pro-Pakistan’ regime?
Bottomline, even the weakest of states does not take kindly to foreign intervention in its governance. Least of all the Afghans.
Admin Note: irredentist claims need to be settled by International Laws otherwise every country then breaks up
In hindsight, getting rid of the Ghani government was a counterproductive move. Lt. General Faiz Hameed (who was DG ISI at the time and has since been convicted and court-martialled) went to Kabul and said “everything will be OK”. IK said Pakistan had ended “slavery” or something like that.
The Taliban were supposed to be pro-Pakistan and against India. It didn’t work out that way.
Ashraf Ghani is a personal friend of my parents from DC days.
By conducting operations that mirror those Pakistan condemned when India struck Balakot and launched Operation Sindoor, Islamabad risks undermining its own legal and diplomatic defenses against a conventionally superior adversary.”
says Mushabir Rizvi in South Asian Voices.
If India has the right to take actions that it deems necessary for its national security–actions which violated Pakistan’s sovereignty–Pakistan has the right to take actions that it deems necessary for its national security.
What’s good for the gander is good for the goose.
No. India is a responsible civilizational state. Pakistan is an illegal rump state. Afghanistan also has more legitimacy being the inheritor of the Durrani empire.
Pakistan is one of the successor states of British India.
Calm down.
I would seriously recommend this thread be closed now.
It really doesn’t serve any purpose except as a place for BB and RNJ to concentrate their anti-Pakistan commentary.