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phyecho1
phyecho1
8 months ago

relative tfr is now going to be More important from here onwards.

Rtfr!!!

Ummonk
8 months ago

And yet most right wingers on social media keep going on about the need for a population control bill.

phyecho1
phyecho1
8 months ago
Reply to  Ummonk

population control bill is about restricting the other side, because the age of consent to marriage is lower for 1 religion more than the other.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  phyecho1

Muslim fertility in India is also going down, albeit not at the level of the Hindus.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
7 months ago
Reply to  BasedExHindu

it’s going to get there eventually- the long term forecasts are that Muslims will eventually stabilize at about 20% of India as a whole, and never (in the foreseeable future) exceed that.

if India were to divide into smaller countries then Muslims could of course be local majorities in some areas, just as they are today.

Rock
Rock
7 months ago
Reply to  BasedExHindu

They continue to above hindu rate and that matters.

brown
brown
8 months ago

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2023/aug/12/mother-of-caste-atrocity-victims-decides-to-find-another-school-for-children-six-juveniles-arrested-2604381.html

Meanwhile, Executive Director of Evidence A Kathir demanded the state government to provide the victims’ family a compensation of Rs 10 lakh and monthly financial assistance of Rs 5,000. “Political intervention is there to save the intermediate caste students as their relatives are holding important posts in the DMK and MDMK. The school teachers, who are taking steps to dismiss the accused students from school, are receiving threats over the phone,” he said in a statement.
Oh periar, oh social justice,

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
8 months ago
Reply to  brown

Yeah, I’m definitely not biting into this shit sandwich that the BJP-RSS is somehow supposed to deliver the Dalits of Tamil Nadu from the oppressive regime of the Tamil middle castes by replacing it with the domination of the Brahmins and the Baniyas. This is not to say that the Dravidian movement doesn’t have its flaws… politics in India is far too often a choice of drinking cyanide or rat poison.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
8 months ago

Glad to see India has made so much progress on this front.

Meghalaya is an odd standout, but I guess they have so few people to begin with that their high TFR doesn’t matter all that much?

phyecho1
phyecho1
8 months ago

whether bjp, dmk or congress etc, all perpetuate the old caste equations, to further themselves and never to end it at all. ICmarriages are the way out and needs incentives. But it will blurry distinctions and make political mobilization difficult.

No proper philosophical education in India. That has been declared brahminism, useless abstract thinking, trickery etc. Also, democracy of first past the post system in India is a bad idea for this kind of reasons of mobilisation.

need to move to rank based voting system,because clearly ,presidential system will not happen.

India is developing only due to technology. Nothing else.

No philosophical ground has been broken by bjp. If ever, it has been made redundant. Their new take on sedition law now a secession law has its own supporters scared because even criticizing religion, people, leaders, dead or alive can be used as a way of fomenting secession etc. what a bunch of idiots. I am consigned to accept there will not be much value for intelligence for next 80 yrs at the very least. I wish I knew this 20 yrs before. could have saved myself at least.

Enigma
Enigma
7 months ago
Reply to  phyecho1

The reason IC marriages are rare is because parents control their adult children’s life choices. You’ll just have to wait until India becomes rich enough for adults to live more independently.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

The 2021 Pew survey indicates that opposition to inter-caste marriage doesn’t very strongly between age groups, so I doubt that has much to do with it. Education, caste status, and even (for the most part) religion don’t strongly affect one’s opinion either.

The two factors that do make a difference are that Buddhists and people in the South are much more likely to approve of IC marriage.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago

Christians and Buddhists are more accepting of IC marriage than Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs, IIRC.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

Interesting to see you now pretend to support IC marriages, the Manuvadi fake liberal Brahmin larper that you are.

I recall you quite explicitly endorsed the principle of endogamous arranged marriage not too long ago.

Phyecho1
Phyecho1
7 months ago
Reply to  BasedExHindu

what an idiot liar. I have been an avid supporter of IC marriages for as long as i can remember, calling for state incentives in a big way.I have only ever advocated that on BP . One of the shameless tactics people use is to lie because they know most people wont check. I have been supporter of ic as long as i can remember, born that way. If someone accuses this in my professional life, they would be sued big time.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  Phyecho1

My reply was to Enigma actually, but I can see why you might have been confused with how the comments are displayed. I wasn’t talking about you though, to be clear.

Enigma
Enigma
7 months ago
Reply to  BasedExHindu

Jati Parochialism is an obstacle to Ethnic&Hindu unity in India, i don’t have to be a liberal to recognize that. All i remember saying is that endogamy is not unique to India and that you can’t force ppl to marry outside their preferences, its not an “endorsement” by any means.

BTW “Hinduism” includes everything from the Vedas to Kaaval Deivams and Kolams, there’s no line demarcating Dravidian Culture and Hinduism. I doubt you’ve put much thought into being an “Ex-Hindu” beyond “Fuck ManuSmriti&Brahmins”.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

“All i remember saying is that endogamy is not unique to India and that you can’t force ppl to marry outside their preferences, its not an “endorsement” by any means.”

Literally nobody in the history of mankind has ever suggested that Iyers and Iyengars need to be *forced* to intermarry with Tamil Shudras, doesn’t mean that I can’t find TamBrahm NRIs cringe for refusing to do so. The fact that you think sociocultural criticism of your way of life means that people want to “force” you not to live as you wish is such typical right-wing victim complex delusion. You guys are honestly every bit as idiotic and delusional and entitled as the Islamists you always whine about.

What has been said is that as long as people insist on remaining distinct, they shouldn’t expect others to treat them as full co-ethnics as happens in other parts of the world on linguistic basis, when ingroup privileges are not being extended from their end (and this goes in either direction, for any endogamous group in India, not just Iyers and Iyengars).

As for your lot, just sit in your little TamBrahm sangam eating daal and reading Vedas, and stay in your lane. Nobody cares. I myself, I honestly couldn’t care less about your bloody Iyer-Iyengar bitches, as long as Shudras rule.

So yeah, it’s pretty obvious from the totality of your statements that you’re just another fake centrist Manuvadi right-wing Brahmin clown, just as I thought. Get fucked, Mr. Iyengar.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

There may well be some pre-Vedic, Dravidian influences in what we call Hinduism, but mainstream Vedic Hinduism is Brahmanical and caste supremacist and that is what I oppose. I am relatively more open to folk Hinduism.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

“As for your lot, just sit in your little TamBrahm sangam eating daal and reading Vedas, and stay in your lane.”

omg, i love this, this is some amazing rhetoric.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

“There may well be some pre-Vedic, Dravidian influences in what we call Hinduism, but mainstream Vedic Hinduism is Brahmanical and caste supremacist and that is what I oppose. I am relatively more open to folk Hinduism.”

this is more or less where I am too- i like the “folk” side of the religion much more than the “philosophical” side.

Enigma
Enigma
7 months ago
Reply to  BasedExHindu

@BasedExHindu
“you think sociocultural criticism of your way of life means forcing!?”
That’s not what i fucking said, you’re putting words into my mouth to spin a web of lies. Endogamy is the “way of life” of everyone in India, not just brahmins. Also, you’re gonna lecture RW about victimhood, when all you leftists do is cry about “muh historical oppression”?

caste supremacist is what I oppose.
You don’t give a single fuck about Dalits&SCs that are discriminated by Non-Brahmin Jatis. The truth is that you narcissistic leftists don’t give a shit about anyone. This tantrum of your is about your bruised ego. There’s a trillion more important things for me to focus than this non-brahmin Vs brahmin pissing contest.

Indians are a bunch of infighting clans without ethno-religious solidarity, IC marriage rates in TN is at a pitiful 3%. What Indians need is something that unites them, not leftist bullshit that cleaves India into 100,000 self-interested Jatis.

mainstream Vedic Hinduism is Brahmanical
Vedic Hinduism died a long time ago when Aryans assimilated into the non-vedic cultures of India. Modern Hinduism is a Syncretic religion with both Aryan&Non-Aryan aspects. Going to the Temples Or celebrating Deepawali&Pongal is not promoting “Brahmin Supremacy” Or whatever crock of shit conspiracy you’ve cooked up. Varna Stratification died with Feudalism, in 2023 anyone can join the Army Or become a Poojari Or an Entrepreneur. You’re complaining about a political system that doesn’t exist and accusing me of having a beleif that i haven’t displayed even once.

Look, i don’t care if you don’t believe me, i just want Tamils to unite as one ethnic group. I’m not here to convince anyone, feel free believe in whatever that makes you feel good.

P.S The Tamil Kings chose to patronize brahmins and majority of Tamils remain religious&conservative, and you’re just some fringe radical leftist raving about Dravidian Separatism.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

“Endogamy is the “way of life” of everyone in India, not just brahmins.”

You could very easily have said this the first time we talked. Instead you dived headfirst into an outright defense of Brahmin behavior, suggesting you don’t actually have a problem with the behavior itself, by Brahmins or others. Just a little bit of digging and I (yes, I might as well admit it – I’m “Aditya Ronanki”, fucking go ahead and find my earlier replies to you) got you to let slip your true views. Like a typical Brahmin coward, you now backtrack in the face of opposition.

“That’s not what i fucking said, you’re putting words into my mouth to spin a web of lies. ”

You explicitly defended caste endogamy, when I called you out on it in this thread, you claimed that all you said is that people shouldn’t be forced to marry outside caste, which was a complete strawman since no one mentioned “forcing” in any conversation and that isn’t all you said in any case.

Yes, orthodox Hindus of all castes are casteist motherfuckers, including many in my own caste. I hate them too, either for being bootlickers or oppressors depending on the individual case. Happy? The Dravidian movement simply targeted TamBrahms due to the political and cultural circumstances of TN during the British period and the immediate aftermath. Of course people naturally will focus on getting the big fish. And, yes, I do think it’s ridiculous that Vellalars and Chettiars and other historical ruling castes of TN get reservation, I’m not even one of them myself, I’m from Andhra. Doesn’t mean I won’t cheer them on when they give your filthy lot the beating you Manuvadi fucks so richly deserve.

“You don’t give a single fuck about Dalits&SCs that are discriminated by Non-Brahmin Jatis. ”

You explicitly support the sociocultural structure that oppresses them and others, so spare me the virtue-signaling please. The Dravidian movement for all its faults has done 100 times more to advance the discourse of caste in Tamil Nadu and even in India at large than some Manuvadi “Tamil unity” Brahmin larper like you ever will. Any remaining issues in TN and other South states are for Shudra and Dalit castes to solve among themselves, now stay in your lane, boy. No one wants to hear some holier-than-thou Manuvadi Iyengar bitchboy lecture us about how we’re doing casteism the wrong way.

“Varna Stratification died with Feudalism”

Varna stratification “dying” doesn’t mean that Brahmins’ historical privileges as a result of said stratification are “dead”. This is just your whole stupid “merit” argument again that all you Brahvermins use to cover your exploitation of the lower castes.

“accusing me of having a beleif that i haven’t displayed even once.

Look, i don’t care if you don’t believe me, i just want Tamils to unite as one ethnic group.”

No one asked you to sugarcoat Brahmin behavior and historical oppression as you are still doing in this very reply. No one asked you to laugh at the idea that widespread caste endogamy inspired feelings of caste difference. If you had simply said that “other castes do it too, yes my community sucks but so does everyone in India”, I would not have accused you of being a Manuvadi. But your tacit APPROVAL of the practice is what prompted me to level the accusation, no one forced you to give me that information about yourself and your deep-rooted casteist views. That’s on you, boy.

“What Indians need is something that unites them, not leftist bullshit that cleaves India into 100,000 self-interested Jatis.”

No need. No one wants you. Just stay away from us and we have no problem. I would date/marry literally anyone before even considering the daughter of some son of a whore Iyengar like you.

Phyecho1
Phyecho1
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

it is a chicken and an egg problem. you can’t create a market economy fast enough bcos caste lobbies stop reforms, that with reservations unwittingly perpetuates the system, Incentivize it a big way, not just economically, but also politically. Increase number of seats as population increased, have seats for IC . no one can deny it, bcos it will be open to all.

Bhumiputra
Bhumiputra
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

IC marriages are follow on indicators. When HDI improves and equalizes across all population segments, IC marriages will increase. In short term upwardly mobile OBCs want to emphasize differences to gain quotas.

phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago
Reply to  Bhumiputra

I have no interest in waiting and more one waits, more one lives in hope. I believe in creating ones own hope and ones own future.

phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago
Reply to  Bhumiputra

shut up, it is not follow on indicators, it is the other way around. This is a thing to be proactive about. Maybe first have ic among upper castes at the very least. Even there it is not same, many are rich, have money, but still do not marry across that divide. If this were true, we would see it among those with higher income, any data for that?. Not celebrities.

Hoju
Hoju
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

or for young Indian men to grow a spine and stand up to their parents. so never.

phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago
Reply to  Enigma

please look to data of those who are already rich or have software jobs etc, find it. Test your ideas, not spout bs. First, how much % of ic marriages are happening between different groups of upper castes themselves.

brown
brown
7 months ago

teesta setelvad has come to iisc to ‘talk’. one thing is that the ‘humanities’ departments in science and tech institutions should not become degree awarding ones. otherwise, every university will become ‘jnu’, ‘ashoka’ etc.

Dirai
Dirai
7 months ago

I genuinely believe native Bangladeshis or East Bengalis should be considered a separate ethnicity. Bangladesh has it’s own accents/way of speaking Bangla, elevated East Asian ancestry on average compared to even West Bengal(which starts at Birbhum) and culture as well. Definitely worth thinking about

Curious Mind
Curious Mind
7 months ago

While a lot of noise is made about Hindu Muslim TFR gap, the big elephant in the room is the difference between the Hindi speaking states and the non-Hindi states. Nowhere is the difference startker than at the West Bengal-Bihar frontier, where the former is seeing huge influx of Biharis and a massive demographic shift. But it’s not the kind of demographic shift that makes a good talking point on social media so it’s not talked about.

Hoju
Hoju
7 months ago
Reply to  Curious Mind

they will mass migrate to WB and continue to hate on WB

brown
brown
7 months ago

the rise of ‘public historians’ like sanjeev sanyal, anirudh kanisetti, bibek debroy, to some extent ram guha is interesting.
i am not sure as to how they are received by orthodox academic historians.
on similar lines, ‘public mythologists’ like dev dutt pattanayak has of late got some push back from orthodox wallas.

Razib khan
Razib khan
7 months ago

test

Raj
Raj
7 months ago
Reply to  Razib khan

Hi Razib have you checked out the Sinhalese DNA data from this paper, I’m very skeptical about the papers conclusions, I think the Maratha link, is a confusion from the mixed south-north Indian mix that both Sinhalese and Marathas have:

https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(23)01874-6#figures

https://figshare.com/articles/dataset/Reconstructing_the_population_history_of_Sinhalese_the_major_ethnic_group_in_r_La_k_/23975601

They should have done more comparisons with Bengali populations as well.

brown
brown
7 months ago

reg article 370,
i) everybody and their uncles have agreed that the accession of j&k to india is final and not contested. i am not sure how the azadi lobby gets this.
ii) the issue all are arguing is regarding the modalities of removal of 370.
iii) native kashmiri lawyers are pathetic. this considering the fact the the kashmir bar association is a strong votary of azadi.
iv) rice eating lawyers madrasis like gopal subramanyam, venkatarami et al appears far better than the sibbal, singhs, dwivedies etc!!!

brown
brown
7 months ago

https://theprint.in/ground-reports/caste-pride-is-everywhere-in-tamil-nadus-tirunelveli-schools-are-the-new-scene-of-crime/1733112/

…..Children wear coloured wristbands and hair ribbons to indicate their caste — a knotted red and yellow for Thevars, blue and green for Nadars, yellow and blue for Yadavs, who are all socially and politically powerful communities that come under the Most Backward Classes (MBCs) category. Among Dalits, it’s red and green for Pallars, red and blue for Arundathiyars, and blue for Paraiyars. The practice of wearing such caste identifiers in schools has been banned by the Tamil Nadu government, but Tirunelveli district has caste symbols painted everywhere. From electric poles to wall posters and street hoardings, the residents of Tirunelveli proudly show off their caste pride, regardless of the community they belong to.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  brown

Nice anti-Shudra propaganda but we are well aware of our problems. Doesn’t mean we want Brahmins and their hangers-on to help us “solve” them by implementing the correct form of supposedly “benevolent” Brahmanical casteism instead. No one is falling for your shit anymore, not here in the South anyway. Everyone knows who the enemy is. Varna vyavastha will not be implemented no matter how many times our resident Brahmins and Rajputs and Baniyas and hangers-on here cry about it.

phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago

https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/isbn_9783447120142.ahtml

“The book offers a new perspective on the emergence and spread of Indo-Aryan in North India. Based on the analysis of more than 200 Indo-Aryan languages and dialects, it proves that there was more than just one immigration of Indo-Aryan speakers to North India.”

phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago

the above arguments continue.

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
7 months ago

Nobody cares. I myself, I honestly couldn’t care less about your bloody Iyer-Iyengar bitches

I would date/marry literally anyone before even considering the daughter of some son of a whore Iyengar like you.

Someone seems to be obsessed with Iyengar women.
Clown is back to blabbering despite the humiliation last time.
At least K@bir was somewhat normal in the beginning, unlike this guy.

Good on TamBrahms for making losers like him mald 24×7.
Hope every community in India can win Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals like them.
South Indian Hindus are already getting there. Managed to land a rover on the moon and are out to study the sun next.

brown
brown
7 months ago
Reply to  IsThisReal

and in the mean time bihar wants to do a caste census and siddaramiah is itching to release his caste census..!!!

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  IsThisReal

I am making a point about ingroup preference obviously. White and black Americans literally have more of a case than Indians of different castes for being one group genetically, that’s what a joke “Hindu unity” is. You can keep your stupid Jatt women or Rajput women or whatever caste you are too, I don’t care.

Also, thanks for revealing that you too are just another Manuvadi UC or bootlicking Shudra according to your previous claims. Just keep on sucking that Iyer-Aggarwal-Thakur cock dude, you’re doing a very good job, it’s so hard. Maybe your masters will throw you a few crumbs if you keep at it.

BasedExHindu
BasedExHindu
7 months ago
Reply to  IsThisReal

Come to Srikakulam district, AP where my caste are kings buddy. Mouth at us on our turf and we’ll slit your throat and dump your body in a well. You’ve just got to be a UC, even the worst bootlicker can’t suck Brahmin-Baniya cock this hard.

IsThisReal
IsThisReal
7 months ago

Come to Srikakulam district, AP where my caste are kings buddy. Mouth at us on our turf and we’ll slit your throat and dump your body in a well.

Just your average “anti-caste” dravidian nationalist.
Doesn’t take much to reveal their true colours.

DaThang
DaThang
7 months ago

We are quickly approaching the yearly anniversary of the Sri Lankan mtDNA paper and still no sign of the nuclear DNA being published.

Diraio
Diraio
7 months ago
Reply to  DaThang

Yeah no real talk though where the hell is that?? It surely can’t take this long for the aDNA to come through. So crucial.

Razib use your power to ask those guys on what’s up lol

Saurav
Saurav
7 months ago

Woah! I go away for a little bit, and it’s totally world war Dravida here.

J T
J T
7 months ago

Sad to see that this site is literally wasting away…..

sbarrkum
sbarrkum
7 months ago

As China is training more engineers and researchers than the U.S. and Europe combined, it will eventually take the technological lead in many fields. Other countries will have to either become more specialized or close their markets to imports from China.
————–
The US instead of upgrading secondary school skills took the path of importing engineers and researchers from other countries, specially poorer countries with free Uni education. China took the path of educating its own in Science and Technology, and it is paying off.

I suspect the top students in China are given an English education. The majority second tier technical people are educated in Mandarin, so they cannot be stolen (i.e. migrate to the west)

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/08/huawei-chips-demonstrate-the-perils-of-technology-protectionism-.html

Narasingha Deva
Narasingha Deva
7 months ago
phyecho1
phyecho1
7 months ago

It is amazing to make predictions and then to see all of that come out at once is hard to believe. “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen”.

Hoju
Hoju
7 months ago

Looks like Kerala has about 2.5 to 5 million migrant labourers, mostly involved in blue collar work and menial labour. They are mainly from Tamil Nadu, Odisha, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal, and Assam. They are drawn to higher wages; Kerala has some of the highest wages for this kind of work. They also appear to be drawn by relative communal harmony, relatively better schools for their children, and relatively better healthcare.

Good to see. Hopefully Kerala continues to generate work for migrants and more of them end up staying.

Saurav
Saurav
7 months ago

I go away for few days and it’s literally world war Dravida here

Hoju
Hoju
7 months ago

got email saying post was approved but don’t see it here idk

reposting

Looks like Kerala has about 2.5 to 5 million migrant labourers, mostly involved in blue collar work and menial labour. They are mainly from Tamil Nadu, Odisha, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal, and Assam. They are drawn to higher wages; Kerala has some of the highest wages for this kind of work. They also appear to be drawn by relative communal harmony, relatively better schools for their children, and relatively better healthcare.

Good to see. Hopefully Kerala continues to generate work for migrants and more of them end up staying.

Brown Pundits