I hadn’t expected my open thread to ignite such a volume of comments. But it’s confirmed something I’ve long suspected: many Indians claim Pakistan is not their rival—but their reactions say otherwise.
Let me be clear: I deeply love India. I venerate her civilizational breadth. But the passion with which some Indian respondents—particularly North Indian Hindus and sections of the South Indian Brahmin class—engage with Pakistan is disproportionate. China, despite being a far more formidable geopolitical competitor, rarely evokes this level of visceral response.
Why? Because Pakistan is the sibling to Bharat. It’s the mirror. And rivalry with a sibling is always more intimate, more consuming.
The best-case reading of recent skirmishes—Balakot, Bahawalpur, Pahalgam—is stalemate. Yet Pakistan always manages to parry back. That infuriates Indians, because it undermines the self-image of inevitable regional supremacy. The very concept of parity is offensive. And that tells you everything.
Not all of India obsesses this way. Sikhs, Indian Muslims, Christians, Northeasterners—they relate to Pakistan differently, if at all. It’s the Hindi-Hindu-Hindutva belt that feels most tethered to the two-nation theory. And tragically, it proves my point: the divide of 1947 wasn’t just territorial. It was psychic—and it endures.
I want peace. I want a border with 100 peaceful crossings. I want Franco-Germany levels of normalcy & unity. But it takes two to tango. And as long as this one-sided obsession persists, on both sides, dialogue becomes impossible.
Pakistanis, too, must self-reflect. But so must Indians. And maybe it starts with this uncomfortable truth: what you hate is what you love. What you can’t stop watching is what you secretly can’t live without.
Until both sides see this clearly, the flags may differ—but the mirror remains the same.
I think rivalry is between equals.
The Hindi belt is closest to Pak in HDI/gdp pci so the most vocal about Pakistan.
Should fade away in a decade.
Like in hockey no one considers Pak a rival. Pak don’t even play in the same division as India but a division lower and don’t even qualify for Olympics/WCs. And when they meet India smash them. Pak have not defeated Ind in hockey in a decade.
Cricket something similar is happening. The “rivalry” is only due to legacy and has not caught up to present day realities where Pak hardly can compete.
By 2035 when India will be a $10T economy with 0.75+ HDI and Pak will be a $600b economy with a HDI less than 0.6 all pretensions of parity will be over.
India was a top world economy in 1193AD. And then it got conquered by an army of slaves and goat herders.
Saarr all your gold is useless if you cannot protect it.
Saar, India hit the length and breadth of Pakistan with missiles and drones including the financial engines of Karachi and Lahore as well as the heart of the Pakistan military, Rawalpindi.
Pakistan on the other hand couldn’t even penetrate the border states and did ZERO damage to Indian military installations there, forget about reaching cities like Delhi or Chandigarh.
It is Pakistan that needs “protection”.
And considering BLA/TTP’s activities those “goat herders” are on Pakistan’s western borders, not India’s.
You know what the funniest thing about guys like S Qureshi and Kabir is?
They NEVER refute on the economy/HDI.
It’s always – “Muslim world’s only nuclear power”, “Sovereign nation”, “Muslim dynasties” blah blah blah.
There is no kanging on “China daddy gonna build CPEC. Pakistan gonna have great economic growth and become a new Asian tiger. China daddy gonna build Oppo, Vivo, Huawei factories in Pakistan etc”.
They know that none of that stuff is going to happen. They have accepted the fact that Pakistan is gonna trudge along at 2-4% gdp growth (which considering their 2% population growth means gdp pci hardly increases) with incremental increases in HDI.
Pakistan have already been left behind in the Indian subcontinent where it has the lowest HDI. Heck, even within Asia only war-torn Yemen and Afghanistan have lower HDIs. The likes of Myanmar, Syria, Iraq, Palestine etc have higher HDIs than Pakistan. Now even sub-saharan African countries are surpassing it. Rwanda, Uganda, Cameroon, Zambia, Angola, Ghana etc have higher HDI.
They have accepted that they are the “goat herders and slaves” of the 21st century.
Saar INS vibrant was seen travelling up the river Indus bombing Rawalpindi seaport. Zee TV journalists on the ground reported these events. So why did Modi Ji run to President Dolund Trump for a ceasefire? 😁 The Nation wants to know, saar
Hahahahaha and just to prove my point – absolutely no mention of HDI, economy etc which are proven on-ground facts which cannot be refuted so to deflect from that resorts to petty trolling 😂😂😂
I mean Pakistani news channels were reporting damage done to Bengaluru port and Brahmos stocks destroyed and 70% power grid down and some such nonsense so media hyperbole exists on both sides.
But no amount of trolling hides the reality of the world.
There was a line by the famous Pakistani author Kamila Shamsie – a truly shining India would make Pakistan feel very dim by comparison.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/14/india.features116
And to deny that fundamental fact Pakistanis choose to be blind, like the tale of the Emperor with No Clothes.
No amount of kanging will change this.
Hahahaha, as if on point – no refutation/mention of HDI, economy etc as those are facts which cannot be changed so resorting to random trolling to hide the pain.
No amount of kanging will change the reality of this map.
Finally an Indian who used a correct map, and not the delusional one promoted by the Indian government 😀
I will take low HDI & high fertility over open defecation and rape culture.
Again the same point – no refutation but random rebuttal.
And this map does not include Siachen which India took over and made Pakistan look like fools in 1984.
Pakistan is worse than India in all socioeconomic indicators includign sanitation and rape.
You ain’t America despite you speaking in English. You are the poorest most backwards country in the Indian subcontinent with the most open defecation and a culture of bacha baazi.
somehow this comment has escaped ‘moderation’.
what does this mean?
I’ve seen you make attempts to moderate, and this Quereshi fella’s toxic comments about ‘rape culture’ and ODF somehow isn’t worthy of your attention…
your comment is racist and I emptied it.
This is true actually. All classic advanced civilizations were brought to their knees by a bunch of uncouth, marauding barbarians; of course the internal dynamics at play ensured somebody from within let these barbarians at the gate inside.
Thing is Pakistanis are not even those barbarians, they are the descendants of the conquered with surnames like Cheema, Gill etc lol.
“Self-image of regional supremacy”– This is what the Indians on BP seem to not understand (although some of them are definitely trolling). Pakistan and India are both sovereign states. Yes, India has more people and more territory. Yes, its economy is bigger. However, this doesn’t give it the right to act as a bully. Pakistan will never accept Indian hegemony. Relations on terms of respect and equality are a different matter.
Most of India’s neighbors aren’t particularly fond of it. Pakistan, however, is the only nuclear weapon state among them. That means that bullying us is more difficult than bullying say Nepal (no disrespect intended to Nepal).
Like you, I want peace. I don’t think “Franco-German levels of normality” is possible in my lifetime. Too much hate exists. But peace doesn’t mean peace on India’s terms. Pakistan is ready for a composite dialogue process. But we will never abandon the Kashmir cause. As far as Pakistan is concerned that remains the core dispute between the two countries. India, however, refuses to talk to Pakistan as is evidenced by Modi’s downplaying/ignoring of the US announcement that talks will be held at a neutral location. Without a dialogue process, we are doomed to repeat the cycle of violence sooner rather than later.
Pakistanis don’t think about India on a daily basis. It’s only the post Pahalgam tensions and last week’s “war” that have recently made it a topic of central interest.
As you say, both sides need to introspect. We need to recognize that the Two Nation Theory and Hindutva feed on each other.
India’s hegemony arises from its population and economy.
Pakistan not wanting India to be a hegemony is like Canada not wanting USA to be a hegemony or Indonesia not wanting China to be one (The GDP ratios match up).
Pakistan can try and maintain “sem2sem” military parity with India but there will be economic costs which will subsequently affect other stuff like sports/arts etc.
Pakistan’s once mighty hockey team is now a pale shadow where it does not even qualify for Olympics/WCs and keep losing to random teams like china, Japan etc.
Their cricket team is also going the same way where it is losing to Bangladesh, Afghanistan, USA, Zimbabwe etc which was unfathomable even a decade ago.
The Pakistani public like North Korea really will have no outlet which will just lead to more dissatisfaction.
A Doval now pretending to be Quaid-e-Azam! Ridiculous.
You keep talking about hockey and cricket. That is not the issue.
Relations between sovereign nations are based on equality. Pakistan will not stand bullying.
Canada is not a nuclear power. Neither is Indonesia. Pakistan is.
You can continue fighting us. It will be a stalemate every time. If you try to cause existential damage, we always have the nuclear option.
Again with the “atami takaat”.
Nuclear bombs don’t change GDP/HDI figures.
The power differential remains the same.
Equality is between equals. Pakistan is not India’s equal.
We have no wish of fighting Pakistan but terrorism will be punished.
Pakistan can delude themselves into believing they have had stalemates but when one of those stalemates involve losing the majority of the country and the recent one involved getting bombed across the length and breadth of the country while being unable to do any damage in return, I don’t want to know what Pakistan considers a loss lol.
Nah, I disagree. I wish the cursed neighbourhood geography of India on the US. India has left Pakistan far behind. Now, its just a freaking nuisance for us as a Sino-American concubine. That’s it’s only utility for the other two who don’t want an ascendant India and interestingly the only thing they concur on.
Ambedkar was right, a complete population exchange at the time of partition would have benefitted India tremendously.
Most folks here have blinkers on wide. It’s obvious why there’s an issue, but nobody wants to address the gorilla in the room. That’s the only reason why the land of Taxila and Panini have been reduced to 7th century intellectual midgets incapable of coherent thought. Which is fine btw, if they just stuck to their land and continue to inbreed themselves into absolute duds.
“complete population exchange at Partition”– Wow! You are actually advocating ethnic cleansing!
And then X.T.M thinks Pakistanis are the problem. You are a textbook example of a rabid Muslim hater.
Comprehension issues much? And are you calling BR Ambedkar a hater?
You advocated for “complete population exchange” in 1947. That is ethnic cleansing in different words. It’s completely unacceptable in the 21st century.
Dr. Ambedkar was a great man but that doesn’t mean that he was right about every issue.
You have a history on this site of calling Islam a “rabid death cult” etc. You are clearly a Muslim hater.
India has almost as many Muslims as Pakistan. I guess you hate your fellow citizens as well.
You are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Hello!! There’s a difference between having a visceral dislike of an ideology- Islam and disliking people based on their religion!
Like I said earlier, Muslims aren’t a monolith. But I do have issues with those who put an ideology before their own blood relatives, let alone others who disagree with them. Or are you blissfully unaware that apostasy and blasphemy are punishable by death in Islam? Which is crazy in normal human terms, idk?!
It’s fine to have whatever opinions about ideologies. I certainly have my opinions about your ideology (Hindutva).
But frankly you come off as a bigot when you call an entire religion a “rabid death cult”.
I’m sorry, bigotry is directed towards people, not ideologies! I can dislike an ideology but when I start disliking a person because of their religious affiliation, that’s when it becomes bigotry. Which btw is what Islam explicitly states. Irony much?
Calling an entire religion a “death cult” is bigotry.
You can call yourself whatever you think you are, you’ve made it clear multiple times on this forum that you are a Hindu Right Wing bigot.
And you’re an Islamist bigot.
Haha! I’m the farthest thing from an “Islamist”. How many times do I have to say that I admire Nehruvian Secularism.
Also, I’m not really concerned about what some rando on the internet thinks.
Coz it’s line with the soft Islamism so-called moderates like you practice to give cover to the likes of Hafiz Saeed.
Bhai Saab, jitna bhagna he bhago, you need to reconcile your widely diverging contradictory beliefs only yourself, not convince a random voice as you rightly say.
Not that it will convince you of anything but what “Islamist” would be caught dead singing bhajans?
https://open.spotify.com/track/1Pfpcr2uQU6E3IZoEj6FIh
Appreciate that you shared the link to your Bhajan singing. Maybe the way ahead is to start with mutual indifference like you said. There is a miniscule chance perhaps, that it could lead to, at the very least a more peaceful Indian subcontinent. Not holding my breath though, but nice to end this convo on a civil note.
Shout out to XTM, though I’m sceptical of anything changing between Ind-Pak and you seem to be an eternal optimist; I do enjoy reading your blog even if I disagree with some aspects of it.
Also, curious. Are you from Mirpur, PoK?
I’m not from Azad Kashmir. I’m from Lahore.
Why would Indian Muslims move to Pakistan? They are living in their ancestral land.
Concepts like “population” exchange can only be imagined by deracinated urbanites. Muslims everywhere in the world (including India) have consistently shown they are much more rooted to the land of their forefathers, more so than Hindus.
What do you think Partition was?! And I just quoted Dr B R Ambedkar, as far from a deracinated urbanite as possible!
There was no clause in the 3rd June partition plan that there would be a population exchange.
The 3rd June plan consolidated Muslim majority areas as Pakistan and India was to be the rest.
The Partition was of Punjab and Bengal, not of India, and partition riots mostly happened in Punjab and Kashmir.
Ambedkar was concpetualizing a problem, his solution wasn’t really serious. There was no way 40 million Indian Muslims were moving to Pakistan 1000s of km away.
Encourage you to read his book: Pakistan or the Partition of India.
The whole point of partition was a separate Muslim homeland. So why would it be inconceivable for IM’s to move en masse to Pakistan? Just like the Jewish people moved to Israel?
Quaid-e-Azam was very clear that he never intended people from the Muslim minority provinces to move to Pakistan except in their individual capacities.
Neither the Congress nor the Muslim League imagined that there would be a mass movement of refugees or that Punjab would be divided.
In any case, ethnic cleansing is a completely unacceptable idea in this day and age.
Not sure why you’re calling it ethnic cleansing? Am I missing something? In my head it was a voluntary movement of people to their new homeland. Certainly not advocating any ethnic cleansing, the pain of anyone like the Kashmiri Pandits being forced into exile is too painful to even think about, let alone experience.
Of course some movement was voluntary, but many people on both sides moved out of fear of violence. That is ethnic cleansing.
My own maternal grandfather’s relatives moved from Amritsar to Sialkot as refugees.
lots of Kashmiri-Punjabis moved from Amritsar for some reason.. was it a historic centre for Kashmiris in the Punjab?
Yes, a lot of Kashmiris moved to the Punjab in search of better opportunities. Amritsar and now Lahore are full of Kashmiri-Punjabis.
I think partition was a horrible thing to have happened for Hindus and Muslims both. Ambedkar suggested what he did clearly not anticipating the tremendous human cost associated with it. I don’t think his motivation was in any way a sinister one; in his opinion it was going to be impossible for Hindus and Muslims to live together in harmony given that Partition was already decided upon by the powers-that-be at the time. He just wanted to prevent another re-do of it a few decades or centuries down the line. Was he right? Only time will tell.
Partition was certainly traumatic. In terms of numbers, it was certainly one of the largest episodes of ethnic cleansing in the 20th century.
As a Pakistani, I do think that it is overall a positive thing that we have a country of our own where Muslims are the majority and we can live our lives according to Islam if we so choose.
It would be nice if the two countries could settle their dispute (even if just making the LOC a border) and live as normal neighbors.
I, actually, encourage you to read the 1940 Lahore Resolution:
Nowhere did Jinnah or anyone in the Muslim league ever suggest that there would be a population exchange. Nowhere did the Congress claimed they wanted a population exchange.
Ambedkar was simply theorizing that there should be a population exchange because creating autonomous units in NW and NE wouldn’t have resolved the Pakistan problem in India as per him, but he presented no plan or logistics on how it was to be done. Which means, this was just a fart in the wind. It could not be done.
As bold as the idea of Pakistan was, Jinnah at least was not stupid enough to say anything like a population exchange should happen. Infact people in Lucknow specifically asked him in 1943 and he said he was willing to sacrifice the political rights of Muslims in minority provinces
to secure the majority NW and NE.
Muslims are today a majority of the population >50% of North British India. If peninsular south was made into its own country in 1947, India would be a Muslim majority country today. Many Muslims actually wanted South India to be a seperate country and North India (including Pakistan/Bengal) to be one unit. To say that Indian Muslims who lived in the historical centre of Muslim power for centuries would just get up and leave for Pakistan is just farcical and delusional. These types of ideas were only proposed by extreme right wing Hindu organizations after partition, and these ideas seem to become mainstream today with BJP. Historical reality, like always is very different.
Hindsight however proved that Pakistan was the right demand for Muslims of Pakistan even if it wasn’t for the Indian Muslims. The region that forms Pakistan today was a considered a backwater and underdeveloped and quite neglected. It was Islamic the longest and under British rule the shortest. Which is why it does not share much with India and Indians, and repeated attempts by Indians to claim it and it’s history only makes it go further away.
Hindu Sindhis, Hindu Punjabis don’t count? Partition based on religion was a horrible thing to have happened. It cleaved people from their ancestral lands ( pre-Islamic current day Pakistan) and the scars are intergenerational. I will never get to visit Takshashila, nor the Sharada shrine in PoK nor will I get to see where Panini developed Sanskrit grammar. I’m guessing these are not significant for you.
Islamic rule was 800-1000 years, a blip in time for a civilization like ours.
Let us agree to disagree on this.
If India and Pakistan had normal relations, you would be welcome to get a tourist visa and visit Taxila. Just as Pakistanis would be able to visit the Red Fort and the Taj Mahal.
Reconciliation comes with the truth. Not my truth or your truth. The bare truth. Are we as a people and nations ready for a truth and reconciliation commission? Can we take it: the good, the bad and the ugly?
Practically speaking, both you and I know this is a pipe dream atleast in our lifetimes (I’m much older, sorry no offense if you’re younger!) .
We have had ups and downs in our relationship but tourists have still been coming until the last few years.
Sikhs still come for religious tourism.
clearly by that view, you love your itches because you cant help but scratch it and obsess about it, or people worrying about their pimples. Or the garbage in front of your home , etc.
sometimes scratching an itch makes it worse.
All the Pak nationalists here who kang on random stuff like “Muslim world’s only atomic power” etc let me ask one simple question.
I’ll present some facts and then ask that question.
I am going to highlight the visa policy of some majority Muslim countries vis a vis India and Pakistan.
Iran, Kazakhstan, Qatar, Malaysia, Palestine – Visa-free for India, Visa of some form required for Pakistan
Indonesia – eVisa/Visa on arrival for India, Visa required for Pakistan
Egypt, Iraq, Uzbekistan – eVisa for India, Visa required for Pakistan
Libya – eVisa for India, Entry Banned for Pakistan
So that’s a sizeable number of Muslim countries which offer India easier entry than Pakistan.
No Muslim country has MORE restrictions for India than Pakistan. Even best buddies Azerbaijan and Turkey have the SAME policy for both countries.
So my question is –
In spite of Pakistan being the world’s sole MUSLIM atomic power, why do these fellow Ummah countries treat the kuffar citizens of kuffar India better?
You do realize Turkish drones were used to fight India. Turkey is clearly on Pakistan’s side.
Hahaha, deflections again.
THAT was not my question. I never said Turkey wasn’t on Pakistan’s side.
We are starting with the assumption that the “ummah” including Turkey is on Pak’s side because of Pak being the “world’s only Muslim atami takaat”.
My question was why does Turkey have the same visa policy for both countries in spite of being “bosom buddies” with Pakistan?
Why do so many of the Muslim countries have better relations with India despite India being non Muslim?
Munira appoints himself Field Marshall after getting Pakistan bombed in a four day “war”.
What a country!
Thank god I only spent a year of my life as Pakistani and seventy one as Indian.
A Pak Field Marshal has life tenure.The Chief of Army Staff (COAS) of Pakistan has a 3-yr (renewable) tenure. Pakistan underwent a coup and pakistanis are not even aware of it. what a country.He stands even above over other generals now. Atleast till now generals tenures kept their power limited, now even that is gone.
[…] S Qureishi on “What You Hate is What You Love” — Reflections on the Indo-Pak Obsession […]
most Indians are focused on Pak
naah. There’s a reason why the phrase ‘rubbernecking’ exists. And there is an undeniable schaudenfraude in watching a ‘hostile’ neighbor stuggle. Doesn’t mean, that there’s ‘love’ underlying it.