- No Chief Justice shall be granted a Rajya Sabha seat as a post-retirement reward.
- If any legitimate vote is deleted, the Chief Election Commissioner shall be arrested under the UAPA, as taking away voting rights is “no less than terrorism” (in reference to the 2025 Indian electoral controversy).[30]
- Women shall receive 50% reservation (instead of 33%) without increasing the strength of Parliament; 50% of all Cabinet positions shall be reserved for women.
- All media houses owned by the Adani Group and Reliance Industries (“Ambani”) shall have their licences cancelled to make way for independent media. Bank accounts of “Godi media anchors” shall be investigated.
- Any MLA or MP who defects from one party to another shall be barred from contesting elections and holding public office for 20 years.
I strongly disagree with point 5 since the idea of MP switching is key to political fluidity. Also point 1 feels very iffy; I do like point 3. The Brit in me loves the idea of titles, Upper Houses and MPs having autonomy from their party..
I have no strong views on either 2 or 4.
In case people are not aware, the CJP first started out as an online protest against thr CJI comments calling unemployed youth cockroaches, basically saying that people who can’t find a job are those who file RTIs and take up the courts time( why the court does not sacrifice its summer vacation to take care of pending cases and is against citizens demanding accountability with tools given is a different matter.)
So if these seem extreme it should be remembered this is when the CJP was just an online satire movement because it is very apparent some of these can’t be implemented.
Their actual demands with the goal of reforming the system by reinjecting accountability is to have Dharmendra Pradhan resign.
Additional.demands like letting Sonam wangchuk return, giving compensation are from events happened after the protest started.
you have… ‘no strong views’?
Demanding cancellation of media licenses for so-called ‘Godi media’ – and who decides what is and isn’t Godi media?
This list is ridiculous and intended for PR not negotiations.
Randam ass blanket reservations… for caste, gender – 50%? Vot baqwaas
//Demanding cancellation of media licenses for so-called ‘Godi media’ – and who decides what is and isn’t Godi media?//
Has this media raised issues that are pertinent to the public, like inflation, price rise, stagnating wages regualrly? Has it indulged . Spreading lies about communities thst it has even been penalised for?
Does this company call out the ruling party mistake regularly as much as it does the opposition
It is not hard to see which media is lapdog and which has served the larger public.
if its not ‘hard to see’, then turn the tv off or change the channel.
Its funny how so called ‘progressives’ want to install their own ‘loyalty tests’
Oh I and many others have turned the TV off, we are encoraging others to do so, to prevent mental retardation that our 9 PM news regularly causes.
I hope you are have done the needful.
The only point I agree with here is #1: I don’t like sinecures (even though I know most RS seats are sinecures.)
#2: I’ve no problem with punishing voter fraud, but arresting the CEC and labeling him/her as a terrorist is completely daft. Just follow the legal and prosecutorial process. If you have no faith in that process, why would you have faith that the poor CEC would get justice? Unless the point is to just find a scapegoat.
#3: Not only do I not want to increase this particular reservation percentage, I want to roll back and eliminate all reservations. Some good did come from the original post-independence reservation policy, allowing SCs and STs to gain footholds in professions they’d have otherwise been excluded from (de facto if not de jure). But that hit diminishing returns a long time ago. What is needed now (apropos of the previous blog post on merit and coaching) is for the government to massively shore up public education for ALL children regardless of background. Equip kids with everything they need to succeed in the world, and then let the chips fall where they may.
#4: Do the opposite of what’s suggested here. Deregulate media completely; allow full free speech. If people don’t like the “godi”-friendly outlets, put your money where your mouth is (but of course, this will require not getting prosecuted on silly and trivial grounds.)
#5: This is my personal opinion and one I think most people won’t agree with, but I loathe the concept of political parties. My ideal legislature is one populated 100% by independent legislators who hold no party affiliation, let alone hold such affiliations sacred. So I’d let MPs and MLAs do basically anything they want in Parliament (of course, following the rules of engagement); they are only answerable to their constituents.
Agree with most of the points but the last. There is no country without political parties that is a decent democracy globally. All the democracies without political parties have been autocracies that divided up the parties to ensure the king or military dictator can enforce their vision and essentially “speak down” to the representatives of different regions.
Yeah, I know mine is a kind-of utopian vision. But I’ve been burned by how political parties have operated recently, with internal authoritarianism, low tolerance for dissent, advocating package deals of unrelated policies. And social media coupled with populism has forced parties into very tribal behavior, with enforced loyalty tests (I see this in India in all the parties, and in the US in both the MAGA and Democratic parties).
again, can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or the lesser evil.
I understand that. I kinda overcame those impulses by keeping the eyes on the prize. At the end of the day the point of politics is to create policy. The structure in itself is rather irrelevant as long as the right policies are in place and they are being implemented correctly. All the issues with polarization or tribalism can be dealt with a lot more easily if the basics are already solved.
//My ideal legislature is one populated 100% by independent legislators who hold no party affiliation, let alone hold such affiliations sacred. So I’d let MPs and MLAs do basically anything they want in Parliament (of course, following the rules of engagement); they are only answerable to their constituents.//
Yes agree, would love to see this be a reality.
/_If people don’t like the “godi”-friendly outlets, put your money where your mouth is (but of course, this will require not getting prosecuted on silly and trivial grounds.)//
Many people do support non godi channels and even pay for then as well
we have our Godi media you have your piddi media, then why the kvetching.
None of the media I watch advocates on behalf of any political party and demonizes its opponents
I also get lots of necessary information that us actually useful in life unlike from godi media where not even the propaganda is good.
Your journalists were calling for boycotts and lynching of godi journalists. Your media are no different from the godi media just that you sit in a different godi. There is no media house, journalist or influencer that doesn’t sit in a godi because it is the entire business model.
Given the reading comprehension you have displayed repeatedly and how you see everything through a caricature of something else.
What is really happening is that the actual manhandling is being condemned the heckling is put in context of godi media repeatedly delegatimizing protest on favour of this govt so its supporters can then celebrate when excessive force is used against it.
As usual no actual examples, where I can correct your wrong understanding. By the way, only one person media have repeatedly been caught lying and spreading fake news on national tv. Wish you had better standards for yourself.
oh yes, the ones who challenge your perspective are guilty of ‘not understanding’. 🙂
The same godi media that had to be called out in the midst of an ongoing conflict is being defended here. If this is what some people watch it is no wonder they can’t help mischaracterizing things.
I don’t have any sympathy for media whose anchors have spread fake news, lies and destroyed the fourth pillar of democracy. I definitely don’t have any sympathy for content creators who go to a protest with the intention of spreading fake news as many right wing content creation do.
Finally people who don’t have any sympathy for tax paying, middle class hindus getting beaten for wanting to march to the parliament made with their money, filled with people paid by their tax and consider them Karen’s have no idea what is what and can only mischaracterize things they don’t understand.
Exactly. The so-called progressives on the left are rabidly tribal in their rhetoric, and their actions. We saw that already with the reign of utter criminality unleashed by Mamta Bannerjee.
The thread binding all of these promises is accountability.
Dharmendra Pradhans resignation being bought is the first step to injecting accountability back in a system.
It is funny how so many are ok with incompetent unaccountable leaders, even if all of them being removed won’t mean their favorite political leader will.have to leave their seat.
The leakers are being held accountable (already arrested, now prosecution in fast track courts). There is no case being made that Pradhan was involved in any omission or commission of crime. Established process was followed and found to be lacking. As long as remedial measures are being taken, we are good. Again I am not a fan of Pradhan but the way this protest has evolved confirms a lot of rw fears/suspicions. This ties in to wider campaign to try and intimidate key regime figures to trigger defections.
The Vyapam scammers are still not convicted because one party’s ecosystem protests its own. And what of the numerous paper leaks that no information has been given on?
And because of the protests that is being dismissed as failed, modi has had to say something otherwise he does not even open his mouth.
Pradhan and the larger bjp government have presided over many more paper leaks and bad exam organization with no action taken. Most rw have double standards for other things in their lives and their favorite political party, they would not have settled for someone as bad as DP if they were an employee under them, as with the bureaucrats heading NTA who have been given important posting elsewhere despite messing up.
For whatever reason, they find ways to justify each and every failure of their favorite party while being harsh on even.minor failures of others, even resorting to conspiracy theories. For whatever reason they also see accountability from people in power as weakness not a necessity.
awwww man, ‘for whatever reason’ why are these other folks simply “not getting it” the way you do 🙂
Ohh because the media they watch is failing them. They only see this protest through reels made to mischaracterize and despite what some people may say about not supporting the party in power, are afraid that Pradhans, who many claim they don’t like, resignation will eventually culmiate in modis apparently. Showing a lack of belief in his popularity and competence if I may add
I can’t help it if many here seem to care more about protecting a political party ego than making Pradhan accountable for things he would be fired for in any normal organization. Talk about being partisan.
Don’t shift the goal post to some other vyapam scam. In paper leak case, accountability is being fixed. The leakers are teachers responsible for setting the questions. They have been arrested and will be prosecuted under the new law brought by BJP in 2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Examinations_(Prevention_of_Unfair_Means)_Act,_2024. Government is also open to any new computer based testing proposals.
Bottomline is that BJP is not perfect but supporters agree that top leadership is committed to national development under national sovereignty. Yes there might be local compromises due to electoral compulsions but so far these have been transitory and towards a larger goal (for eg. NCP co-option in MH was necessary for any spurt in manufacturing and bullet train etc.). Also yes the top leadership might not get things right the first time on many issues but they have demonstrated openness to genuine feedback. For example. UGC notifications on equity groups in colleges, Kaveri engine funding after long delays mainly twitter trends etc.
The feedback loop is not institutionalized by design. Most supporters know why.
The only reason the trial is being fast tracked is because of the protests and the pressure they have put. Otherwise what has been the status of the numerous other paper leaks that have happened for which there has been no accountability. If you have not heard the main accused in NEET UG 2024 has not been convicted due to lack of evidence, will the case be reopened? Will the officer who failed to investigate be put on probation? We will.never know because there has been no accountability.
I dont like how you justify horse trading, but that is on the NCP not the BJP. If you know accountability works, why are you so committed to protecting this govts ego and honor? Will having incompetent people help in national development? For every victory there are 100s of misses that get overlooked because there is no fear of consequences in the system. Doing your job does not deserve a pat on the back and if you think a party thst only responds to twitter trends is accountable, won’t a party whose minister know there will be consequences for failure be even better?
Supporting a party’s ego is never good, todsy they are going after protestors who they have convinced you are insincere tomorrow what is to stop them from going after their own supporters who they consider nuisances. Don’t live on the good will of a party that is fundamentally only concerned about themselves
“The only reason the trial is being fast tracked is because of the protests and the pressure they have put. ”
–partly agree and goes to my earlier point that govt listens to feedback.
I already told the reason why I still defend govt. It is much better than alternatives at handling both external and internal challenges. If you are really sincere you would acknowledge the “regime change” angle plus the hobbled position that Modi is in due to 2024 verdict. I am more than happy to ack that Congress faced similar efforts in 70s and again in UPA-2. But I don’t remember BJP top leaders threatening top constitutional functionaries and trying to intimidate them. I don’t begrudge Congress being passive beneficiary of people’s dissatisfaction. In fact if congress had behaved like a “responsible” party and not made incendiary comments and mouthed nationalist platitudes, BJP would have been in much tighter spot. But they have chosen their bed.
In a nutshell my reasons, BJP is taking a principled long term nationalist decision not to align with any geopolitical block. That is intersecting with domestic opponents whose primary grouse that BJP is still winning elections despite it being not 100% perfect when the fact is that they are winning because they are B+ whereas opposition scored a C (mainly economy and Bluestar) when they were in government and are now acting like F in opposition.
This is about Dharmendra Pradhans resignation, and in a large scale about whether dissatisfaction of people mean anything if it come from people who don’t vote for the BJP.
None of the protestoes are asking you to not vote for the BJP, none of them are asking for regime change. If you think that DP leaving will make Modi vulnerable, it points more towards you lacking belief in his popularity and that many people can see the good work. This is not even about whether the opposition is good or capable, I fully advocate for BJP being in power for the next 1000 years if it treats the people who don’t vote for them with the same sensitivity as those who do.
The fact that until things get blown out of proportion, ignorance,demonization and trying to trap those who don’t vote fot them and dissatisfied for some reason is the goto response and many supporters seem to have been taught that this party having to face accountability from even those it does not support but whose taxes they take is worse than actually listening to what a large section of Indians believe is not good for the future of India.
To summarize:
1) Vote for whoever you want.
2) Please don’t think that those who are protesting here can’t see good work otherwise, but may have differing priorities thst are not going to change.
3) Resignation of DP is not a call of regime change and this kind of hyperbole only makes it look like you lack belief in modis popularity
4) People who don’t vote for the BJP are indisn citizens too, and being opposed on certain things and wanting action does not mean every other issue will get the same support or that the resolution in favor will lead to the BJP being thrown out of power.
5) The opposition is incompetence does not mean we need to put a party’s ego and insecurity that giving in on one unpopular resignation will eventually culminate in them being out of power if the opposition does not want to do its job, the media is unwilling, and court has its own priorities it upto the citizens to demand accountability. For that we need to stop thinking it’s our job to massage a party’s ego.
6) If you think the BJP is the best of worst, it will still be after Pradhan is sacked under public pressure, if anything if they are able to do whatever they want despite 67% of people not choosing them, in the future even the protests of their supporters will start counting for less
If there is anything you have an issue with or think I have not addressed please let me know. Please also let me know if you think I have not said something properly, I can’t catch all typos and maybe somethings get lost in writing.
I hope you get my point.
Bjp own supporters complain that their grouses are not being heard (gc vs rest). Even in case of DP, bjp supporters have been complaining since Jan. There are complaints about other ministers as well. In 2nd term, bjp voter feedback got rid of harshvardhan, javadekar, rabi shankar ninda etc after covid. See my earlier point about feedback loop not being institutionalized due to risk of hijack. BJP voters complain that non voters except Muslims get better treatment. Something like how companies incentivize new customer acquisition vs existing customers. So I am not sure why you think non voters get a raw deal when compared to voters.
With regards to my belief in modi popularity, I believe in him and his popularity but 2024 results have to be acknowledged. There are genuine differences within cabinet around how to handle external challenges. Hence the constant talk of cabinet reshuffle but no change. So the risk to modi govt is non trivial. Also Hindu civilization has taken Ls for nearly 1000 years due to infighting and key person risks. So we have every reason to be paranoid and survive/thrive.
//Also Hindu civilization has taken Ls for nearly 1000 years due to infighting and key person risks. So we have every reason to be paranoid and survive/thrive.//
Most of the people in CJP protest are hindus, as I repeatedly saying they are tax paying, middle class hindus who are now finding that this govt is more scared of losing face than doing right by them.
On the point of fear of hijack, I see things differently( obviously) , I think deep down the fact that 68% of the people actively chose another party instead of the BJP haunts them.
The extreme hostility towards the views and desires of the non voters of the BJP which sometime even culminates in insults to the voters iq( as Sudhir Chaudhary has done multiple times for example, and this guy is now a DD anchor) the way every protest that is run by non bjp voters is shown to be hijacked, funded by external forces, and all sorts of other things that are never proven in the court of law and just social media rumours is why I feel that there is a hostility towards those who don’t vote the party that expresses itself in the message passed through to the media that finds itself downstream where even normal BJP voters then cast aspersions and make unsubstantiated claims on other funding. None of this was seen in the UGC protests for instance.
If this govt respected the people who may not have voted for them but whose money is why they live comfortable lives any hijacks can be dealt with by sending emissaries to engage, investigate and pacify. The home ministry is more than capable of doing this that the nebulous funding either does not come to fore is proof to me that these are largely false allegations. If any protest is supported by a political party then what is wrong with having an open discussion. They are also Indian citizens and may one day be their colleagues as well
Listening does not mean you need to agree, but as I have mentioned if you are insecure of your position, you think there is something wrong or suspicious about people not voting for you and are afraid any sort of weakness will lead to you being in the position of the opposition it does not inspire confidence.
So to summarize:
1) There is nothing wrong with BJP engaging with opposition by sending a party member. Listening does not mean you will agree.
2) Any possible threats of hijack can hr discussed by talking openly and letting it all come out. With the home ministry with them, any nebulous details would come out easily making it a bigger risk for the protesting party.
3) Opposition partys are also Indian citizens and a discussion puts them at risk as much as the ruling party
4) That demonization and suspicion in my view is a sign that there is a lot of insecurity and fear over losing popularity it is not normal in a democracy for people to be labeled as anti social elements for expressing dissatisfaction and demanding accountability.
5) I feel the need to once again reiterate Listening does not mean you need to agree. You can simply give an argument why you think your opponent is wrong and leave it at that.
6) These informal chains thst you mention, while good for existing, are not substitute for a dialogue. Worse they are also at risk of getting closed in the future if the party’s anxiety and insecurity get the better of them.
Once again you can support and vote for whoever you want as well as disagree with my take, if you feel I did not cover something or have a point of disagreement or did not understand something let me know.
BJP is engaging opposition and open to common sense solutions. Have the PMO MoS, Nadda, Rijju not being meeting the opposition? The opposition including CJP are the ones who have never proposed any meaningful alternatives/solutions to the core issue of paper leaks other than harping on DP’s resignation. I repeat again, in case of paper leaks there is no omission or commission alleged against DP. Action is being taken against the known leakers. But you are like the typical “liberal” who does not ever vote for any RW govt but will expect same govt to constantly seek your approval on every single matter.
You can’t hand waive the obvious coordinated regime change effort. It is interesting that you keep harping on the 2/3rd ~67% of people who apparently did not vote for this govt to undermine its credibility. As others have pointed out it is an artifact of FPTP system. Anyway the voteshare of NDA parties in 2024 GE was ~43%.
//But you are like the typical “liberal” who does not ever vote for any RW govt but will expect same govt to constantly seek your approval on every single matter.//
Does the govt look at who has voted for it when it takes taxes, gst and much more. If it wants to use everyones money it has to be accountable to everyone, this is basic thing. Democracy is not a military boot camp or a family where everyone has to listen to the patriach, it is a more like a shareholders meeting where the CEO has to be responsive to all shareholder.
//BJP is engaging opposition and open to common sense solutions. Have the PMO MoS, Nadda, Rijju not being meeting the opposition? The opposition including CJP are the ones who have never proposed any meaningful alternatives/solutions to the core issue of paper leaks other than harping on DP’s resignation. I repeat again, in case of paper leaks there is no omission or commission alleged against DP. Action is being taken against the known leakers. //
This is the govt job, you take and use everyones money, you need to keep everyones interest in mind, otherwise dont take our taxes. The protest has been about establishing accountability, the media sources that you and others are referring to that reduce this to just a protest against NEET, are hiding basic but important things from you. I have already established why accountability is important but it seems you have not properly understood what I am trying to say.
//You can’t hand waive the obvious coordinated regime change effort. It is interesting that you keep harping on the 2/3rd ~67% of people who apparently did not vote for this govt to undermine its credibility. As others have pointed out it is an artifact of FPTP system. Anyway the voteshare of NDA parties in 2024 GE was ~43%.//
THis is not a regime change effort, if it was the govt would not be meeting with protestors or considering their demands. This tendency to see every protest by people who dont vote for the NDA as a regime change effort is just paranoia that the media spreads largely at the behest of the ruling party whose first reaction is to always treat any protest or demand by those it did not vote for as an attempt to dislodge them.
Why is a supposedly popular, and powerful government so worried about every demand or protest that goes against some of its decisions, especially those that are led by people who did not vote for it, but whose tax it did take.
This insecurity is, in my opinion and my opinion only, a result of the fact that large number of people did choose a different party, the FPTP being our system does not mean that the candidates can bulldoze their opinions on those who did not vote for them.
The fact that BJP got 38% and the NDA got 43% does not undermine their credbility, but this reflexive suspicion, disgust and delegetimization that is done amongst its voters through the media does do real damage, it shows more and more that some people do consider others a threat, just for exercising their democratic right.
If you think I am wrong, please tell me why you think the CJP is a regime change operation when neither the home ministry has said so and even the BJP is now talking to the protestors after weeks of ignoring and demonization.
At this point, even if I’d rather see Pradhan ousted – and I’m not sure I do btw – caving in to this sort of ‘street protests’ is not a precedent that the Indian government should be setting – The BJP already caved once with the “farmer” protests. They cannot do it again.
+1
The 67% of people who don’t vote for the bjp are also Indian citizens. Also letting go of Pradhan does not mean that every other decision that some quarter opposes will automatically get the same level of traction and support across India.
This is a strawman that if non bjp voters get their way after a mass agitation they will be able to get their way for many things, when that is only true for genuinely mass issues like dissatisfaction of DP.
This whole thing is about ego and insecurity that if Pradhan goes, others like Gadakari and maybe Sitharaman wil also get the boot but that is hyperbole. Don’t know why you are defending this govts ego.
(I know you don’t consider the protests against UGC.regulations as a street protest because it was done by other voters like yourself)
what is new 67% cope. New talking point just dropped babe, after losing 3 back to back elections, “we are the 67%”
The 67% stuff has always been cope. The magic number has always be mid-30% of votes. We live under a FPTP system and every majority has only required 35ish% of votes to become a majority. If we actually bought the 67% narrative then congress is a party not supported by 80% of the country and DMK is a party not supported by 75% of Tamil Nadu.
Exactly, because large number of people did not choose you, you should not think that you are above the people of this country especially because you dont discrimiante when doing taxation.
The whole point of FPTP system is to ensure that the person chosen has the humility necessary to server everyone and not just their own voters.
The DMK understands this, to a large extent, the Congress does, it is about time even the ruling party does too.
>The DMK understands this, to a large extent, the Congress does, it is about time even the ruling party does too.
Thanks for the friday laughs. Tell us more.
Completely dodging the point to indulge in more opposition baiting.
You know these two parties have been punished for their excesses by being removed from power rught? And none of the reluctant voters of these two [ parties do as much fire fighting as the reluctant supporters of the worlds largest party does.
Lol.
https://factly.in/state-presidents-rule-number-times/
The congress has been punished for all these excesses.
ssssssh I’d steer clear of digging too much on “Tamilakam”. The claws will really start to come out then 🙂
its a phrase, but as usual you are reading things that are not there.
This is why debate with a wide range of perspectives is good hygiene. Serves to spotlight biases. 🙂
Anything you dont like or agree with is not a cope or a conspiracy.
The fact is that 67% of the people of India actively chose to not vote for the BJP, the media you consume may make it look like this is not so, but the hostility and insecurity everytime this collective also asserts their rights as citizens for however banal a demand, can only be explained by this.
If you spend a little brain power, I think you can see what I am talking about.
Btw, I am neither attached to the BJP, or to a Pradhan or Gadkari. But hey, keep projecting. Its far easier to ‘win arguments’ against a strawman.
Gadkari gets pointless hate over the E20 stuff. The policy has been gradually raising the amounts of ethanol in fuel and the issues it caused are marginal while the upside is massive. The only reason to be against Gadkari should be rising numbers of road accidents and declining road safety.
Gadkari gets pointless …louvv also. He’s done a decent job of scaling up infra and roads build out, but he’s got his share of warts.
You say this, but the anger and judgement you give to the opponents of your favorite party, the anger that you have for govt that has been voted out, and in certain cases has been surpassed by the BJP in how bad it is and above all, the worry that a partys ego is going to be hurt and it will look bad, if it considers the demands of the people who did vote for it, gives it away that you love the BJP more than you let on.
Why you feel ashamed of saying it openly is something you need spend time on.
lol, I am not angry. And we all ‘pass judgement’ on those whose arguments we disagree with.
“look bad”? I want the current government to be put under pressure and “look bad” more. So that they deliver better.
If I saw some meaningful opposition against the BJP, I’d support it in a heartbeat. But instead all we have is the meaningless histrionics of RaGa, Kejriwal, and all these frothing idiots.
At this point, you are intentionally refusing to acknowledge my perspective, in spite of me repeatedly spelling it out for you. Probably because for lelis, everybody who doesn’t see things ‘their way’ has to be some one-eyed BJP supporter.
I think that sort of repeated bad-faith misrepresentation is……something be ashamed of. 🙂
//If I saw some meaningful opposition against the BJP, I’d support it in a heartbeat. But instead all we have is the meaningless histrionics of RaGa, Kejriwal, and all these frothing idiots.//
This is the main problem, you only seem to have criticism for the opposition, not the people in power, who you claim to not like.
Furthermore, it is another media narrative that has been put forth that only certain people are supposed to criticize the govt. In reality we are all shareholders to whom the state is accountable, both those who voted for it and did not, on whose tax the whole state exists.
I am not mischaracterizing anyone, you yourself are worried more about how other people in this country who contribute taxes getting their demands met will make this govt weak, than ensuring incompetent people dont get to be in positions of power. Worrying more about this makes a party weak, rather than ensuring accountability is secured, is what a supporter would think about. Even most hardcore supporters also use the same rag of others being bad while not saying a word against the ruling party FYI.
>you yourself are worried more about how other people in this country who contribute taxes getting their demands met will make this govt weak,
not sure what this word salad means, but one thing is certain, you …either intentionally or otherwise, have no grasp on what I am “worried” about.
You’ve made up your mind that I’m a “supporter of the BJP” and care about them ‘looking bad or weak’. In spite of me repeatedly clarifying that isn’t the case. Might want to “introspect” on why that is.
The below response is why I dont buy you not having more sympathy than you let on.
Lets see what we have here
1) Agreeing with a demand raised by people you ideologically but not wanting it to go through so that the party in power does not look weak.
2) Calling the CJP and Kisan andolan as streeet protests but not the anti UGC stir made by voters of the party in power.
3) Caring more about the fact that people who did not vote for the party in power get their way, as if that is bad thing, not something normal in a democracy.
4) Which reminds me, somehow like many other party supporters, you readily seem to be think about agitations of others in conspiratorial terms, deploying the same rhetoric that is said on media that has repeatedly tried to delegetimize protests the govt wants to quell till it is forced to engage the protestors.
5) Finally, a lack of anger and judgement towards the govt role in exacerbating this whole ordeal by first refusing to engage and then trying to delegetimze and finally trying to suppress, which only failed because the dissatisfaction was underestimated. A trait that many also displayed here, where they just cant seem to fathom many would be dissatisfied enough to want to protest.
Its not about ‘not look weak’. Its about govt efficacy. I dont want to see an India return to the politics of 80s and early 90s. I don’t want to see this protest model incentivized – and I would take this stance if it was a congress government also.
Rest of the other conjured up silliness that you magically are attributing to me, I am not going to bother with.
You have a real problem digesting a perspective that challenges yours. So for you, the only way to ‘understand’ it, is to make up arbitrary assumptions.
//You have a real problem digesting a perspective that challenges yours. So for you, the only way to ‘understand’ it, is to make up arbitrary assumptions.//
I understand your perspectives very well, and have debated with people who have said the same things as you over and over, all of them had the visible favorites and gave hyperbolic examples to justify their not-so-reluctant support for the party in power. I gave a point to point rebuttal of how you behave exactly as a supporter would, you should not deny what the heart wants.
//Its not about ‘not look weak’. Its about govt efficacy. I dont want to see an India return to the politics of 80s and early 90s.//
Letting an incompetent minister go, would increase efficiency, that a protest by people who did not vote for this govt is why you are bringing this comparison in the first place. Anyways in a democracy, listening to citizens who you take tax money from, even if you dont agree to their demands is the most basic thing. That so many here directly resort to conspiracy theories and doomsday scenarios to demonize any opposition to the party in power, is a sign that many heavily mistrust many others for taking different voting choices from them.
there you go again, clubbing and bucketing me with “others you have debated with”. Explains how you are tilting at windmills instead of engaging with me and my points.
We have a divergence – where you see a legitimate protest group that you trust and are willing to extend ‘benefit of doubt’ to, I see a bunch of political opportunists and misguided useful idiots.
What is your main point, that even when you agree with a demand, in this case DPs resignation, that if the people raising it are pitted against the ruling party in power, you will automatically support the ruling party?
Because there is no indiciation that the people there are grifters, insincere or anyones useful idiot, this is just the common sense that is prevalent amongst the supporters of the ruling party who cant help themselves from thinking the worst of others for their political choices.
Anyways, it is very common to express disgust towards poltical activities that are done by non bjp parties and organizations outside the sangh, another manifestation of the same hostile psychosis that has been cultivated as well as accuse everyone except those who support your favorite party of being stupid.
If you still think I am not engaging with you,please answer me why should only the BJP get to use IAC to come to power but others should not? Though I dont think the AAP, or Congress or Bhim Army or SP are behind this, and I especially want to know do you think the BJP did something wrong with hijacking the IAC?
Believe it or not Modi is still one of the most popular leaders in the world. People actually like the guy and therefore for most Indians the default position is to be in favor of the BJP. If you can’t handle that bias you shouldn’t engage in this debate at all. Regardless, it is an entirely pointless discussion in the first place. You aren’t a BJP voter and I’m not an opposition voter. Nothing you say will convince me to change my position and vice versa for you. So how about we agree to disagree and move on to more interesting topics in life.
believe it or not, the default position when someone is making a demand that may not be liked by the party in power is not to character assissanate and cast unfounded aspersions on other peoples motivation, character or intent. Especially when the only proof is social media rumours, with nothing else to back it up
This is very striking behaviour that shows that a lot of people are insecure regarding their favorite partys staying power, leading to seeing everything as a conspiracy. It, to me, shows that much less people are confident in these kind of ranking than they are letting on, if they react in such a manner everytime those who dont vote for their favorite party is in on the backfoot.
I don’t care about this discussion. You are inserting pointless topics into it and constantly moving goalposts. Talk to someone else about something else.
My goal in this whole discussion has always been to bring out, that there is a particular way that people here react to protests and disagreements towards the modi govt from non bjp voters that are not normal. I have not shifted from that goal.
Anyways I have said all that is needed to be said and am also finished.
I disagree with you. You’ve been very close minded in this whole saga. I don’t want to talk to you.
The whole lot of you have been making assumptions, casting doubts on the sincerity, intelligence, character and motivations since the beginning.
None of you guys have actually engaged with any content that takes the protests at face value and tries to find out why people are protesting in the first place, only seem to be interested in delegetimizing and judging others, based on social media rumours that have no substance to them and making claims that make your own support for the people in power questionable.
So why not see why everyone who is a supporter of a particular party is so eager to judge people who disagree with them in the first place.
But it looks like people who like to judge others and questions their motivations dont like to open themselves to scrutiny or like it when they are questioned the same, way, thinking I am being close minded when I am just giving everyone the same scrunity they have been giving to the protestors and everyone else who has ever decided to raise demands to the BJP who have not voted for them.
I have not even been half as nasty to any of you people. as you have been those protesting.
Modi is a once in a generation political titan. Even today, despite serious disappointment within his supporters, he still commands a huge amount of respect. He needs to lead and be seen as leading. He has been way too docile in recent months.