Kashmiris are just generic North Indians, and there is no difference between Pandits and Muslim Kashmiris


Since people ask me this I have to post this now and then. We have genetic data. So in short order

1) Kashmiris are like other people in the Northwest of India. They are not enriched in steppe ancestry, at least compared to many Punjabis or Brahmins from the Gangetic plain

2) There is no genetic difference I can see between Pandits and Kashmiri Muslims, indicating to me that one distinctive aspect of the Vale of Kashmir in comparison to the rest of the Indian subcontinent is that it does not exhibit the jati-varna structure common across the subcontinent

3) Some researchers and genetic genealogists have found some Tibetan admixture at low levels among Kashmiri Muslims and Pandits

4) It is probably correct that elite Muslims have low levels of Central Asian and Iranian ancestry, though that’s harder to detect than Tibetan background

13 thoughts on “Kashmiris are just generic North Indians, and there is no difference between Pandits and Muslim Kashmiris”

  1. Kashmiri pandits and Kashmiri muslim dna will be similar, because the origin of muslims would have been mainly from FC and BC communities, as they form the majority of the population.. When it comes to north Indian communities, the FC and BC communities have simiar dna, it is the scheduled castes dna that is different from others.. So, if one can include Kashmiri scheduled caste population in the analysis, it would have shown a clearer picture..

  2. Point #2 seems wrong.

    Does the Kashmiri muslim sample include Watal Muslims and “Kami” Castes ?

    This article has some pics of Watal (Dalit caste) Kashmiris along with a description of the caste system. They look visibly more AASI enriched than other kashmiris.

    https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/caste-discrimination-kashmir-conflict-watal-sheikh-community-ghettoes-endogamy-manual-scavenging-poverty#read-more

    This is not different from Punjab, Himachal etc. Where Brahmins have middling levels of steppe ancestry other groups like Khatris or Jatts have more.

    1. Khatris have more steppe than Brahmins in Punjab? I thought they both have similar levels.

  3. While reading the Rakhigarhi DNA related articles, one point that is being stressed out is that, AASI component is not found anywhere other than India – which shows that migrations did not from India to outside.

    So this must also imply that there must be few (but major) y-haplogroups which are present only in India but not outside – are there any like that?

  4. Watal is not Dalit. The person who made the comment clearly knows very little about Kashmir.
    Also, the Tibetan bit sounds right to me. There is quite visibly some E Asian ancestry among Pandits.

    1. I don’t know much about Kashmir.

      Just going by their occupational role. (Manual scavengers)

      And the description of their traditional settlements on the outskirts to settled society (watalpurs)

      How would you describe them?

  5. Kashmiri Pandits (includes 3 individuals) and Kashmiri Muslims (academic samples from Vale migrants to Muzzafarbad) on G25 Vahaduo:

    Distance to: Kashmiri_Pandit_Average
    0.01969468 Kashmiri_Pakistan
    0.02155024 Punjabi_Sikh_India
    0.02177991 Kohistani
    0.02364137 Khatri
    0.02723437 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.02912213 Gujar_India
    0.03023606 Sindhi
    0.03028406 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
    0.03129209 Himachal_Brahmin_Average
    0.03167056 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.03311505 Brahmin_Jammu_Dogra_AG
    0.03397577 Kamboj
    0.03566403 Nepalese_A
    0.03609900 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.03941753 Brahmin_Khas_Nepal_AG_Average
    0.04302972 Burusho
    0.04328071 Bahun
    0.04398107 Pashtun
    0.04750136 Yusufzai
    0.05213177 Ror
    0.05511793 Uthmankhel
    0.05540526 Nepalese_A2
    0.05686027 Tarkalani
    0.05690430 Jatt_Pathak
    0.05814414 Kho_Singanali

    Distance to: Kashmiri_Pakistan
    0.01969468 Kashmiri_Pandit_Average
    0.02135071 Kohistani
    0.02293811 Punjabi_Sikh_India
    0.02382069 Himachal_Brahmin_Average
    0.02477676 Khatri
    0.02520069 Brahmin_Jammu_Dogra_AG
    0.02539798 Gujar_India
    0.02587673 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.02856103 Sindhi
    0.02954934 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
    0.03025057 Nepalese_A
    0.03063194 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.03388179 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.03393612 Bahun
    0.03414158 Brahmin_Khas_Nepal_AG_Average
    0.03802613 Kamboj
    0.03870097 Burusho
    0.04786466 Pashtun
    0.05125445 Yusufzai
    0.05158527 Nepalese_A2
    0.05243476 Punjabi_Lahore
    0.05615485 Ror
    0.05932091 Uthmankhel
    0.05964797 Kho_Singanali
    0.06002807 Jatt_Pathak

    The Kashmiri Pakistan outlier is a Gujjar like individual:

    Distance to: Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
    0.01874186 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.01997639 Gujar_India
    0.02375637 Sindhi
    0.02764904 Punjabi_Sikh_India
    0.02767154 Khatri
    0.02954934 Kashmiri_Pakistan
    0.03028406 Kashmiri_Pandit_Average
    0.03297062 Kohistani
    0.03492325 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.03551070 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.04004063 Kamboj
    0.04176133 Himachal_Brahmin_Average
    0.04316430 Brahmin_Jammu_Dogra_AG
    0.05071201 Nepalese_A
    0.05323059 Pashtun
    0.05457926 Brahmin_Khas_Nepal_AG_Average
    0.05524070 Yusufzai
    0.05703256 Bahun
    0.05706691 Punjabi_Lahore
    0.06146941 Burusho
    0.06255651 Ror
    0.06322223 Uthmankhel
    0.06454988 Tarkalani
    0.06607491 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    0.06610824 Jatt_Pathak

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