It seems apparently that Kashmir is Palestine. That India is Israel. That Kashmiri Muslims are Palestinians.
First The Pandits were actually displaced. 100,000-200,000 people (estimates vary) fled the Valley in 1990 under explicit death threats, targeted assassinations, mosque loudspeakers announcing their departure was required. This is the closest thing to actual ethnic cleansing the Valley has seen in living memory, and it was directed at Hindus, by militants operating with Pakistani ISI support.
We are not arguing that everything is fine in the Valley. It is not that Delhi’s approach to Kashmir has been faultless, or that the revocation of Article 370 was without consequence for Kashmiri identity. Nor can it be denied that there is genuine anguish among Kashmiri Muslims.
However the analogy to Palestine is not merely imprecise, for instance the Abdullah family chose India over Pakistan, whereas no Palestinian chose Israel. However this argument is increasingly offensive.
The Gaza Test
Start with the simplest possible question: what is actually happening to the Palestinians?
They are being killed. En masse. Hospitals bombed. Aid blocked. Entire family lines erased. Cities reduced to rubble. The ICJ has found it plausible that genocide is being committed. The Netherlands and Iceland have made interventions. Saudi Aramco’s CEO said the regional war that followed is “catastrophic.” The word elimination is not hyperbole; it is the considered language of international courts.
Now ask: what is happening to Kashmiri Muslims?
They vote. They sit in Parliament. They serve as Chief Ministers. The Abdullah family, Farooq, Omar, have governed the region for decades, and Farooq Abdullah just survived an assassination attempt, which tells you that someone regards him as a political figure worth eliminating, not that the Indian state has eliminated him. Kashmiri Muslims run businesses, study at Indian universities, live in cities across the subcontinent at will. These are not the same situation. To say they are is to dishonour both the actual victims of elimination and the genuine complexity of Kashmir.
Integration versus Elimination
The honest civilisational argument about Kashmir is not about elimination. It is about integration, and whether integration, in the Indian case, is being pursued by just means.
That is a real debate. One can argue about the pace of change. One can worry about demographic pressures. One can hold, as many Kashmiris do, that their distinctiveness deserves protection. These are serious concerns that deserve serious engagement.
But integration and elimination are not synonyms. They are antonyms. The Palestinian is being removed from the land. The Kashmiri Muslim is being asked, sometimes clumsily, sometimes coercively, to remain within a political union.
The Moral Weight Problem
There is a second argument embedded in the Kashmir-Palestine comparison that deserves equally direct treatment.
It runs like this: Islamic societies operate under a different moral framework, so we should apply a different, effectively lower, standard when evaluating their conduct. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic; India, that is Bharat, is a secular state; therefore India is held to higher account. By this logic, forced conversions of Hindu girls in Pakistan are simply background noise, while a symbolic demographic shift in the Valley is a civilisational emergency.
We are not accepting that argument on Brown Pundits any longer. Not because we wish to be anti-Pakistan, or anti-Islam, or anti-anything. But because it is philosophically incoherent and morally corrupting.
Morality does not have two tiers. There is not a premium-tier secular morality and a discount-tier religious morality. Islam has one of the most sophisticated moral traditions in human civilisation; the fiqh tradition, the concept of maslaha, the insistence on the inviolability of the dhimmi. If we accept a lower standard for Islamic states, we are not being respectful of Islam. We are being condescending to it.
The standard is the same for everyone, everywhere: any side that deliberately targets civilians is on the wrong side of history. Full stop. No asterisks. No exemptions for ideology, theology, or civilisational belonging.
This is the rule. It applies to the IDF in Gaza. It applies to Iranian Shaheds dropping on Jumeirah. It applies to ethnic violence in any direction in any valley in any subcontinent.
What Brown Pundits Stands For
We are a civilisational blog. We believe civilisations are real, that they carry genuine content, that the Indic civilisation in particular has a living claim on its practitioners that deserves serious intellectual engagement rather than reflexive apology.
We also believe, have always believed, that civilisational pride does not require civilisational chauvinism. One can be pro-India in the deepest sense while holding Indian conduct to a high standard. One can recognise the miracle of a pluralist democracy of 1.4 billion people while remaining honest about where that democracy falls short.
The Kashmir-Palestine analogy shortcuts all of this. It offers a readymade villain, a readymade victim, and a readymade remedy; and it gets all three wrong.
The honest conversation about Kashmir is: how does a great and ancient civilisation integrate a restive, proud, and distinct community by just means? How does it honour particularity within unity? How does it ensure that the Kashmiri Muslim in Srinagar feels the same pride in the Indian project as the Tamil in Chennai or the Bengali in Kolkata? That is hard. It requires honesty about failures. It requires generosity toward Kashmiri identity. It requires Indian institutions to be better than they sometimes are.
But it has nothing to do with Gaza. The people of Gaza are being eliminated. The people of Kashmir are being integrated.
This thread is not being moderated but if it gets excessive it will be temporarily closed. But caveat emptor; participate your own peril.
I would recommend closing this thread. Whatever needed to be said has been said. It’s now just becoming repetitive.
RNJ knows that calling Pakistan an “apartheid state” is triggering. He insists–for whatever reason–on doing so.
Also, your post outlining why Balochistan is not Kashmir should also be a precedent. That’s also an extremely repetitive and pointless comparison.
good spot re Balochistan is not Kashmir. Precedent Posts outweigh free-wheeling threads ..
excellent yes
let’s keep the thread open for now, but yes the Balochistan is not Kashmir (Kashmir is Sui generis) is now a precedent argument for BP..
arguments against a Precedent must be made on that thread ONLY
A new category called “Precedent” has been created. These are Posts which settle a question on Brown Pundits so the Commentariat stops spinning in circles on the same ground.
Two Precedents already exist:
(1) Whether 1971 was a genocide; it was not
(2) Whether Indian Muslims have it better than Pakistani Muslims;they do not(3) Kashmir is not Palestine and Pakistan must adhere to the same, if not higher, moral code as India, that is Bharat.
Comments found in violation of a Precedent will be replaced by the link to the relevant post rather than engaged afresh.
Precedents are not edicts. They are the best argument won so far. They can and should be challenged, and if a challenge succeeds, the Precedent gets amended. That is how knowledge actually advances.
This is how BP stays rigorously high signal. Not enforcing orthodoxy but an obligation to bring something new to an old argument.
When did we arrive at consensus on #2 though? There is a strong macro-statistical argument to be made that life expectancy, literacy, economic outcomes, per capita income, gender rights, access to education, employment – Muslims in India arguably come out ahead – when compared to their respective peers west of the Radcliffe Line.
Does a college graduate in Karachi ‘have it better’ than one in Mumbai? I think the answer to that question is extremely obvious.
yes excellent point thank you. Actually have added more articles to Precedent https://www.brownpundits.com/category/precedent/
but you are right, there isn’t a specific piece on point number 2, which makes it open to debate.
this is what is great about BP, when all of our blind spots can be “spotted” like a hundred-eyes Argus.
And considering the economic trajectories, only going to diverge.
Indian Muslims with ICC trophies in the 2020s:
Siraj (2024, 2026)
Shami (2025)
Pakistanis with ICC trophies in the 2020s:
NONE
Uzair Younus and many other Pakistanis have traveled to India and witnessed firsthand the progress made by educated muslims in Bombay, Bangalore etc
Of course if you want to find folks who aren’t educated and not doing so great in India, you can find them in all religions and ethnicities.
And this is not to pretend that overt societal discrimination does not exist in India against muslims. But pound for pound, the outlook for Indian muslims in India is measurably brighter than their Pakistani peers – that’s the argument.
Cricket trophies are not the end all and be all.
Pakistani Muslims live in a country that belongs to them.
Indian Muslims are a minority in a Hindu country.
This is apartheid-esque logic. Muslims are a ‘minority’ in America as well, and there are issues with Islamophobia in American society as well. And yet, the rhetoric from the likes of Kabir is a lot more aggressive when it comes to India then it ever will be for the ‘West’.
If I am allowed to speculate, its the underlying logic that when it comes to the ‘Hindu’, the muslims need to somehow have the right to supremacy. Even constitutional secularism is not enough.
“Apartheid” is a triggering word and you know that.
Your analogy is beyond ridiculous. Muslims voluntarily choose to immigrate to the US. We are not the natives of the land. We know we are going to a non-Muslim society.
Indian Muslims are the natives of the land. They are not immigrants.
You are right in this – another Precedent post due but not yet.
Dubai & the Middle East is the second destination for both Pakistani & Indian Muslims after the English speaking – Western world.
Pakistanis, apart from the celeb class, aren’t trying to cross into the border to emigrate (like Bangladeshis are for instance).
A Pakistani Muslim has full equity and rights over Pakistani that no Indian has (since India is secular) but that in practicality Hindus do.
It is inconceivable that an Indian Muslim may become PM but thereoretically possible as an IsraelI Arab can become PM.
However it’s as impossible as a Pakistani PM being non-Muslim (though that is a legal hurdle). But then if the law has no real bearing on reality what is the point of the law; all 3 countries can’t really have Minority leaders?
Indian Muslims have as much right over India as Pakistani Muslims have over Pakistan.
Indian Muslims have been President as well as Chief Justice as well as Chief Ministers (of Muslim minority states).
They have also been cricket captain.
They haven’t been PM but then Sikhs have been who are an even bigger minority.
As far as emigration to India by Pakistani muslims, the celeb class obviously does and if economic trajectories persist (they will) even the commoners might look to India by mid century.
Not inconceivable that India’s blue collar labour comes form Pakistan once Bihar/UP are richer/older.
India belongs to Indian Muslims as much as Pakistan does to Pakistani Muslims.
Pakistani Shias are a minority in a Sunni country.
Their government is on the Board of Peace with Israel who killed the most holy man in Shiadom and is waging war against Iran.
Plus not to mention the various Sunni groups terrorizing Shia citizens of Pakistan.
I will allow this but this is misleading: Shi’ites in Pakistan are a fundamental part of the body politic & elite.
Kabir is technically Shi’ite; your arguments are technical but yet a Precedent post coming soon.
That same logic can be applied to Indian Muslims who are well represented in the elite.
Kabir’s logic about Indian Muslims being an oppressed minority due to the violence they face can be extended to Shias in Pakistan. The attack on Shias, which are of greater magnitude than the attacks on Indian Muslims cannot be wished away.
Not at all – entirely different relationship. Indian Muslims are THE minority.
For instance on Iran; both Shi’ite & Sunni feel passionately about this.
Numerically, even Shias ate the minority in Pakistan.
And the Pakistani government is on the Board of Peace with Israel and USA.
Also a Precedent thread may host unlimited discussion of said topic but no discussion of said topic may happen outside of a Precedent thread.
It allows the topic to be fully interrogated but without derailing other Threads.
So to discuss 1971 genocide or Kashmir = Palestine can be discussed endlessly in their Precedent thread.
Also this thread settles the question about Pakistan & India being judged by different moralities.
Indian Muslim versus Pakistani Muslim has been partially addressed in a Precedent thread here: https://www.brownpundits.com/2025/12/10/who-can-speak-for-the-muslim-minority-of-india/#more-21874
However as RNJ writerly notes it has not been conclusively settled.
on a slightly related matter, ibn khaldun bharati done an interesting article in print, in which he says indian muslims should towards india for more harmony.
https://theprint.in/opinion/indian-muslims-face-truth-muslim-countries-dont-care/2679116/
an interesting tid bit
Unrequited loveWhile India always took a pro-Arab and pro-Muslim stand in almost all international conflicts, these countries seldom ever sided with us in our ongoing problems with Pakistan; and, on the issue of Kashmir, they speak the same language as Pakistan. In fact, they speak of Palestine and Kashmir in the same breath, thus identifying India as their enemy much like Israel.
Since India has been conducting pro-Muslim diplomacy in order to appease its own Muslim minority, it was for Indian Muslims to feel indignant at the anti-India behaviour of Muslim countries. But, no. They see nothing amiss in this arrangement where India sides with them without any expectation of reciprocation. They take it as their entitlement as an appeased minority that India should remain in the service of Islam.
faisal devji is article which is cited in the above is also interesting:
https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-of-unifying-islam-is-a-recent-invention-and-a-bad-one
one except…
Posturing about ‘Muslim unity’ tends only to alienate Muslims from the political world of nation-states that govern their societies
Well it seems that India is lucky for its Muslim in the sense the good relations with Iran.
Otherwise maybe with no Muslims, India would have been full on ZioAmerican & GN (like S Korea & Japan).
A lot of Kashmiri Muslim girls are marrying out, mostly to other Muslims from the rest of India.
These romances bloom in places like Aligarh, Jamia etc.
Eg Onaiza Drabu married to the prince of Mahmudabad
Cricketer Sarfaraz Ahmed has a Kashmiri wife.
Kashmiri Muslim wife running a Kashmir restaurant with a Kannada Muslim husband:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG1OONWUpMk
Actresses Fatima Sana and Huma Qureishi have Kashmiri Muslim mothers (Fatima has a Hindu father).
This is a notable feature of Indian marriage mart; ANI hypergamy
Men tend to marry women of higher ANI% when they go inter caste marriage ..
If you permit me saying so; U seem very interested in Halal bits tbf..
I like a bit of everything tbh 😜
This analogy ignores the fact (not opinion) that Srinagar is not “India Proper”. Srinagar is Disputed Territory that India is administrating (arguably against the will of Kashmiri Muslims).
Kolkata is unequivocally part of India. So is Chennai. Srinagar is not. West Bengal was not promised a plebiscite. Neither was Tamil Nadu. Kashmir was. No one in the international community thinks Kashmir is part of India.
If it offends you to think of Kashmiris as Palestinians, then you can think of them as “Israeli Arabs”. They are legally Indian citizens–despite the fact that many of them do not and have never thought of themselves as “Indian”.
The whole argument for India having Kashmir was that a secular state can have a Muslim-majority region. If India wants to become a Hindu majoritarian state, Muslim Kashmir needs to be freed.
That is a very fair analogy but what does that make Indian Muslims; non Jewish none Muslim Israelis.
Indian Muslim = Israeli Druze / Christian
This begs the question who are the Baluchis then; they are not so dissimilar to the Kashmirs except they don’t have international recognition but the Pakistani government is operating as a colonial force, if not in law but in practise.
These are important distinctions to interrogate
Balochistan is unequivocally.a province of Pakistan. No one ever promised the Baloch a plebiscite. The UN does not recognize Balochistan as Disputed Territory.
This is the legal position.
The Kurds are legally a part of their countries but they are seen as a national struggle. One can’t be so dogmatic
In your opinion does kashmiris have a third way of becoming independent? This was the line being taken by many in Srinagar early on.
Not many are keen to be ruled by Punjabi Muslim jats
The plebiclte does not have third option.
I have absolutely no issues with a Kashmir free from both India and Pakistan.
Pakistan will never allow its division of the Kashmir state to be independent.
AJK and GB are not constitutionally parts of Pakistan.
A free Kashmir is actually a very good idea.
This is allowed but going forward such opinions can be expressed in this thread as it’s not productive. There is no appetite for anywhere in the Subcontinent for another state.
What if it’s what the Kashmiris want?
Do they not have a right to self-determination in their own homeland?
We can confine it to this thread rather than it be derailed but you are right a post on the viability of
Independent Kashmir (or any other irredentist movement in the Subcontinent would be good).
Balochistan has more viability with a coastline and access to middle east and India.
No one ever promised the Baloch a plebiscite. Balochistan is not Disputed Territory.
Do you really not understand the concept of Disputed Territories?
Tomorrow India decides Balochistan is disputed and then it becomes disputed.
Those are just semantics.
Balochistan has nothing to do with India.
Balochistan doesn’t border India.
That’s not how these things work.
You want to interfere in Balochistan? Pak Fauj will deal with anyone who is a threat to Pakistan’s territorial integrity.
Kalat was illegally annexed into Pakistan against the desire of its leadership. No amount of “disingenuous” obfuscation can cover up this historical fact.
But presumably so was Goa & Sikkim etc.
I think one can agree that Kashmir is sui generis in an international and bilateral context.
The only Disputed Territory is Kashmir. Balochistan is unequivocally part of Pakistan.
You just keep revealing your absolute lack of understanding of History.
May I present to you Hyderabad Deccan– a Muslim princely state “annexed” into India?
Hyderabad has no secessionist movement against India. Unlike the Baloch who have literally demanded Azadi every single generation from 1947 onwards.
Do the Baloch not have a right to self-determination in their own homeland.
Do the Pukhtoon on either side of the British imposed Durand line not have a right to self-determination in their own homeland.
Historical fact – The Pukhtoon in NWFP voted AGAINST Pakistan and in favor of remaining part of Independent India.
Once again, Balochistan and KPK are integral parts of Pakistan.
You keep saying “NWFP”. This is a British colonial term. The place is called KPK.
India has no claim on KPK. You are so off base it’s ridiculous.
“British imposed Durand Line”– the Durand Line was the border of British India. As one of the successor states of British India, Pakistan inherited that border. This is not up for debate.
Why isn’t a free Balochistan a ‘very good idea’ then? 🙂
Demographic change has been inflicted by Pakistan in the so-called “Azad” territories for decades. Zia infamously carried out a vicious pogrom against the shia in the 1980s.
The entire province is under the jackboots of PakMil and always has been.
This whole discussion of ‘self-determination’ is so ridiculous. Pakistanis need to first achieve it for themselves before trying to weaponize it against India.
AJK is Mirpuri and has always has been. I think Dardic Kashmiris are maybe in one district.
Kabir’s ethnic group, Lahore Kashmiris, are probably one of the most dominant in Punjab and the country.
As India got out of its Kasmiri phases (Nehru-Gandhi dynasty); Pakistan went into its own (Sharifs).
India has not been the villian in Kashmir that the Pakistani governments have portrayed it to be, and certainly nowhere close to what Israel does in Palestine.
But those were previous Indian governments. The Modi government wants to be more like Israel in this scenario, and they treat Kashmiris like Palestinians. We have not seen complete disenfranchisment just yet but it is surely coming. And this has majority Hindu backing now from the mainlanders.
Why I look at Kashmiris, I see Northern Pakistanis. I personally would love to see the LOC being declared a border but this is not a popular position in Pakistan. Given that the geography of Kashmir is natural part of Pakistan and Pakistani rivers flow through Kashmir which makes it very existential, the issue will not go away until Pakistan takes Kashmir, militarily or diplomatically. When that will be is anyone’s guess.
Very good comment in parts but Modi has not stripped Kashmiri Muslims of civil or political rights though of course to dilute thme
Yes Kashmiri Muslims are ethnically very similar to the Indus Region.
Unless Pakistan wants to be an Iran, holding the word hostage, it is far better that it just turn the LOC into a soft but real border.
Kashmiri Muslims have not been targeted as such.
Only thing that has been diluted is statehood but that applies to non Kashmiri Muslims (Gojri/Pahadi), Dogri Hindus and Buddhist Ladakhis/Shia Kargilis as well.
Kashmiri Muslims who reside in other states have statehood.
So nothing targeted towards Kashmiri Muslims.
Which means NEVER cause India will ALWAYS be stronger than Pakistan (and the gap is only increasing).
And considering the Kashmiri TFR as well as decrease in Kashmiri separatist sentiment (a hard approach did work wonders compared to the soft Congress touch) there won’t be any Pakistani support in the valley in a few decades.
No Kashmiri has been treated like a Palestinian. Rights have been granted to other Indians which Kashmiris have always had, including to Indians who have been living in J&K for decades.
Kashmiri Muslim men have been disappeared. Kashmiri Muslim women have been violated.
These are just facts. India treats Kashmir like a colony.
Admin note: provide facts not comments
And that makes what you all do to Kashmiri Muslims acceptable?
Kashmiris deserve to be free from Hindu India.
Admin note: stop trolling
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/get-involved/join-the-movement/join-a-group-or-network/country-coordinators/country-specialists-blog/forced-disappearances-pakistan-case-mahrang-baloch/
And how does that make what India does to Kashmiri Muslims acceptable?
Two examples: Gawkadal, Kunan Pushpora.
I never opined on “acceptability” either way.
Just that what is good for Kashmir is good for Balochistan extending similar logic.
Balochistan is not and has never been Disputed.
It has been – by the Baloch.
And human rights violations are commonplace there by Pak fauj.
The Baloch can dispute whatever they like. Under International Law, Balochistan is unequivocally part of Pakistan.
The world speaks of “Indian administered” Kashmir. Kashmir and Balochistan are not the same. XTM wrote an entire post on this a couple months ago.
Whatever claims can be made about crimes and potential state violence in J&K, are also true, and in fact exceeded in proportion, against Pakistanis – not just the Baloch and Pukhtoon.
Entire Pakistan is treated like a colony by PakMil. Pakistanis are ‘disappeared’ if they dare challenge the Feudal zamindars larping in fancy uniforms. Entire swathes of Baloch and Pukhtoon territory have been invaded by PakMil rendering millions as ‘internal refugees’ in what is supposedly their own land. The Baloch Yakjehti Committee and PTM leadership have been illegally ‘disappeared’ and their rights violated. The daughter of Shireen Mazari, a qualified lawyer, was sentenced to many years imprisonment, simply for tweeting against PakMil. That is not just colonial oppression, but straight-up enslavement. Calling this out for what it is, is genuine liberalism, not “anti-Pakistan”.
Your argument is that since its a ‘muslim’ regime committing the violence its somehow ‘ok’. This is the logic of apartheid and religious supremacy.
This is why Pakistani performative protestations about ‘self-determination’ in J&K ring totally hollow. This is why not a single Muslim nation raised a peep against Indian administrative re-organization in J&K in 2019. Their silence was damning, and supportive of Indian sovereignty over the valley.
Of course, Quixotic Pakistanis imprisoned with delusional fantasies of jihadis ‘beating’ India like the Afghans beat back the Russians still find it difficult to come to terms with today’s reality. But such dinosaurs only spotlight their personal biases and blind spots the moment they express their perspective on J&K.
Blah blah blah. Anti-Pakistan diatribes are not worth anything.
I’m ethnically Kashmiri Muslim. You’re not. These are my people and not yours.
.
I don’t think that you have any right to speak for the Kashmiri people. Neither are you Muslim nor are you Kashmiri.
Stay in your lane.
.
Srinagar and J&K is Indian. You can keep shrieking impotently ‘in your lane’. Won’t change a damn thing.
Disputed Territory.
The entire world says “India-Administered” Kashmir.
You can hide your head in the sand.
You’re clearly getting rattled. The use of foul language is a good sign.
‘The entire world’ didn’t mutter a peep in protest when India executed its constitutional administrative re-organization in J&K.
Pakistani delusional coveting on Kashmir, are like fantasies of their relevance in cricket – long extinct memories of the past.
You can of course continue to hide your head in the sand. Anybody who isn’t a dinosaur, even in Pakistan, has accepted this.
Two words: Disputed Territory.
Admin Note: BB do not deliberately engage in low signal comments comments.
Original Comment:
Three words: Pakistan Occupied Balochistan
Pakistan will never give up on the Kashmir cause. It’s existential.
The best deal India was ever going to get from us was the Musharraf-Manmohan Plan. That ship has sailed now.
Why is it existential
About to fly – anyone following the news?
As Qureshi said, all Pakistan’s rivers flow through Kashmir.
Also, TNT requires that a Muslim majority region be part of a Muslim majority country. Officially, Kashmir is the “unfinished business of Partition”
Then why not Lakshadweep islands.
What does that have to do with Pakistan?
Kashmir is the “K” in Pakistan.
Admin note: low signal comment, do better
@X.t.M: That was a smart pun, lol. Should have left it just for that.
so , sorry bangladesh, you are not in.
Really? India broke East Pakistan.
Don’t attempt to break any other parts of Pakistan. This is completely non-negotiable. Pak Fauj will never alllow it. And we are a nuclear weapon state.
Exactly. This irridentist fantasy of “re-doing” Partition is ridiculous, and its high time its called out.
Don’t be disingenuous. The issue is only about the Disputed Territory.
Pakistan has no designs on any part of “India Proper”
India continues to claim that AJK and GB are part of India. The Muslims of those regions want no part of anything to do with India.
If you want to “relitigate” partition, then you do not get to draw magic lines on what qualifies as ‘unfinished’ business and what does not.
This is the kind of …silly logic that has led to Pakistani military defeats, repeatedly.
Pakistani Right wingers who spout the talking point of ‘unfinished partition’ do not care for the Kashmiri people or their ‘self-determination’. They never have. If they did, they would not have cynically let loose jihadis to wreak murder in the state for decades. It is simply covering fire for Pakistanis coveting the land of Kashmir, and a desire to ‘hurt India’. Unfortunately, for bankrupt states that are militarily impotent, such desires remain feckless.
We’re “militarily impotent”?!
We’re a nuclear weapon state.
You live in an alternate universe.
I’m not moderating this thread but while I disagree with you on Kashmir (let LOC be settled borders); I do feel the Commentariats aren’t paying attention to Iran & the Persian Gulf.
History isn’t linear; Pakistan did vindicate itself in the Op Sindoor environment.
Economics is not everything; how is Iran bringing the mighty US to a standstill?
The Commentariat are not interrogating the new landscape whatsoever
Wouldn’t you say the Iranian regime wins just by surviving, whereas the US needs a very specific outcome for the operation to succeed? In that way, the resource disadvantaged country holds it own and it shouldn’t surprise us at all.
Absolutely – it’s interesting how everyone forgets the initial rhetoric; “regime change.”
Now it seems that the goals are simply to reopen the Strait?
If the Strait is effectively opened at the cost of dedollarisation; it deeply benefits Iran. The sanctions are virtually all ccy based (Swift and all that).
This was hubristic; the Iranian diaspora cheerleading the war are Gharbzadeh. Iran has a cultural clash as profound as Ukraine (Shi’ite versus Persian) but each side has taken over (Mainland versus Diaspora).
It is completely déclassé to be Shi’ite in diaspora but equally one has to be Shi’ite to ascend Iranian government (like one has to be Communist to navigate China)..
The Yanks didn’t realise that Iran is Shi’ite in the way China is Communist; it wasn’t so sui generis.
It almost feels like a false lull these past few years as thought the Sino-Russians & Iranians were luring Yanks-Israelis to the Mainland itself..
The problem with an echo chamber: for instance I realise that the Commentariat are so busy pushing back against Kabir’s admittedly excessive statement, that they can’t mine the valuable nuggets.
In some ways the Umreeki attack on Iran is a couple of decades too late.
Yes considering the fantastic track record with Iraq & Afghanistan.
Umreeka has a terrible track record going back to Korea and ‘Nam.
I meant more so in the sense that the 90s and 2000s would not have given Iran the drone option. You take that off the table, and this conflict plays out very, very different. No?
Wouldn’t you say the Iranian regime wins just by surviving,
Exactly as I have been saying.
Even more so if the US has to leave the Gulf and probably the mid east,
the resource disadvantaged country holds it own and
Iran is not resource disadvantaged, It was constrained by sanctions,
As XTM says trading in Yuan will be the end of the Petrodollar that was the linchpin of the US and Gulf states axis.
I would also add, Hamas attack was to Internationalize their conflict. I dont think they expected such a success.
Keep in mind Hamas was created by Israel. One of the many seeds Israel wowed for its debilitation, if not destruction.
Sorry, but I think its……..at a minimum, distasteful, to describe the Hamas attack as a ‘success’. It was despicable.
Given the current state of Hamas, and Lebanon/Hezbollah, the only thing Oct 7 managed to accomplish is to delay the inevitable ‘acceptance’ of Israel existing as a nation state.
I read an article in “Foreign Affairs” that basically said the US will lose this war the way they lost Vietnam.
“Horizontal escalation” is in Iran’s interest.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/iran/why-escalation-favors-iran
Yes but the US doesn’t have 8yrs to lose this. Outcomes will be decided very quickly
Problem is if that happens, Drumpf and Umreeka will look for face-saving lipstick on a pig – and that search can lead to involuntary escalation in unexpected directions.
The problem remain the markets; if oil spikes up to twice its price essentially overnight, it will no doubt create a cascade shock.
Its systemic shock on banks, consumers, insurers, finance, legal; essentially the entire “service” sector is hyper-sensitive to any real sort of volatility.
There is a good volatility (systematic risk, earnings report what not) and bad volatility (systemic shock,
Oil doubling).
For instance what if redemptions start to occur all at once; that’s when market crashes happen.
Its yet another covid style “unexpected” shock to modern day Just-in-time Inventory management. But a lot worse.
Drumpf doesn’t just have to ‘defeat’ and overcome Persian resistence, resilience and capability to withstand pummeling. He’s fighting time.
There is an exercise date by which the ‘Attack Iran’ option can potentially blow up in his face. And not just his. But this is a guy whose entire career demonstrates a remarkable consistency in bad business bets.
The odds are long, and the only thing that can save Umreeka is its disproportionate hyperpower, along with prayers that some of the generals can execute a ‘come-from-behind’ tactical touchdown.
Btw the post was inspired by your comments so thank you
The borders are not changing realistically. Both India and Pakistan are nuclear weapon states.
My point is only that Pakistan’s official stance remains that all of Kashmir should be ours by virtue of its being Muslim. Pakistan does not recognize the right of the Hindu Dogra Maharaja to decide anything for Kashmiri Muslims.
If the principle was that the prince would decide (which was the principle being followed) then India needs to hand Junagadh to Pakistan.
Kabir outside of a Precedent thread; there should be no discussion, by you, of India’s secularism.
Ethnic chauvinism and high minded morality do not go together.
If you want to limit what I can and cannot say, I’m happy to leave entirely.
If I cannot criticize India’s secularism (or lack thereof), then no one else should have any right to use words like “apartheid” for Pakistan .
India followed whatever principle got them the territory. A “referendum” was carried out in Junagadh when the Nawab had clearly acceded to Pakistan. In Muslim-majority Kashmir, the Dogra Maharaja “acceded” to India. In Hyderabad, a “Police Action” was carried out. India does not have the moral high ground.
Kabir reread what I wrote; don’t derail other threads.
I have no intention of derailing threads.
There’s far too much focus on Pakistan in any case. But the same standards you apply to me should apply to those constantly using words like “apartheid” for Pakistan. The animus against the very idea of a sovereign Muslim-majority nation formed out of British India is really something.
It’s actually not- it’s had attendant devastating effects for non-Muslims in that landmass, whereas that hasn’t happened to Muslims in the non-Muslim state.
+1. Needed to be pointed out by someone who can’t just be dismissed as ‘anti-Pakistan’.
The hypocritical constant stream of baqwaas on Indian secularism is a test of one’s patience and tolerance. Good exercise in a way, but too much of anything aint great.
Pot calling the kettle black.
Your “constant stream” of anti-Pakistan “baqwaas” (since you like Urdu words”) is what is ridiculous.
Really?
Muslims in the non-Muslim state are a beleaguered minority.
Muslims were ethnically cleansed from Indian Punjab. My own relatives had to flee Amritsar.
Some people on this forum just cannot deal with the fact that a large portion of the Muslims of British India refused to live under Hindu rule. That was our right.
yes yes, the right to refuse secularism in favor of religious apartheid camouflaged as ‘self-determination’.
The right to rule ourselves without being a permanent minority under Hindu rule.
I was at the Lahore Museum yesterday. Most of the museum’s collection is Hindu/Buddhist/Jain. They’re not hiding it. They are owning it as part of Pakistan’s history.
But we are comfortable with the fact that Pakistan exists and the Muslim majority rules ourselves in accordance with our own culture and religion. I know you find this threatening.
Obviously Indian nationalists cannot stand that they have a proud nuclear-armed Muslim country in their neighborhood. But too bad for you.
yeah Hindus and other infidels can only be tolerated as museum artifacts. Else pre-teen hindu girls can be kidnapped and forcibly married off to middle-aged muslim men, and the Pakistani state will provide legal cover to it.
You are an apologist for an apartheid state. And you have the temerity to attempt pontificating about the challenges faced by Indian secularism.
Pakistan is increasingly not a ‘threat’ to anyone but itself. To India and Indians, its ….just a nuisance. A pest to be warded off with investments in security. Like spraying pesticide to control mosquito infestation, or lighting the kachwaa-chaap mosquito coil so that mosquitos don’t disturb.
And you are an “apologist” for a Hindu majoritarian hellhole ruled over by a man with Muslim blood on his hands.
You say one word about the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and I will lay bare all of India’s dirty laundry. Don’t play this game with me.
Your country has the third worst HDI in Asia after Yemen and Afghanistan. War torn Syria is higher.
In fact, even many sub-saharan African nations are better than Pakistan.
Pakistan is a failed state and the hellhole.
“Infidel” is your word and not mine. I have never called non-Muslims “infidels”.
You’re become increasingly unhinged. Comparing Pakistan to “mosquitos” is beyond the pale.
We are a nuclear armed nation of 250 million people. Wake up.
Your comments reek of muslim superiority and chauvinism. You clearly have a problem with prejudice against India and Hindus. The consternation and refusal to believe that millions of muslims are happy and proud citizens of India is symptomatic.
“Infidel” was your word. You cannot prove that I have ever used that word for non-Muslims.
Put up or shut up.
“Millions of Muslims are happy and proud citizens of India”– With people like you and “Hindu Hriday Samrat” around that’s not going to last long.
Muslims are lynched for eating beef. Muslims are made to chant Hindu slogans. Your PM has Muslim blood on his hands.
Pakistan is a nuclear armed Muslim homeland. We exist and we will continue to exist.
You’re becoming increasingly unhinged. Keep self-destructing. I’m done with this thread.
“You clearly have a problem with prejudice against Hindus”– LOL! I sing Hindustani classical music. I have sung Bhajans.
You have no idea who you are addressing.
.
Admin note: stop pushing or you will lose your Author rights.
Relitigating partition in the 21st century, the TNT stands self-inducted into the trash compactor. So let’s not get into what “should” have been done in 1947.
Respect the existence of both Ind and Pak as nation-states, accept the fact that partition was an imperfect messy process, make peace with current borders.
All of this is simple, obvious and would lead to immediate benefits to the entire subcontinent.
Except that the PakMil mafia would cease milking billions from selling Ind-Pak hate chooran. The entrenched elite that like the status quo in Pakistan are Pakistan’s worst enemies.
“Make peace with current borders”– When are you all giving up your claim on Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan?
The Muslims of those areas want absolutely nothing to do with you.
As for “hate chooran”: Give this lecture to “Hindu Hriday Samrat”. Your country thrives on anti-Muslim hate.
You are simply advertising your ignorance on Ind-Pak history and realpolitk.
Since Pakistan’s surrender in 1971 and the Shimla agreement that followed, India has repeatedly offered Pakistan the option to ‘make peace with current borders’. It is undeniable historical fact that PakMil vested interests are the only obstruction preventing that outcome.
Apologists for that kleptocratic parasite on the Pakistani awaam of course choose to shout loud angry denials, as if somehow history can be edited just like Pakistani school curriculum.
Your politicians continue to this day to claim AJK and GB. This is just a fact.
“Pakistani school curriculum”– Once again, I grew up and was educated in the US. You didn’t. Grow up.
You are a anti-Pakistan troll. Keep digging.
>Your country thrives on anti-Muslim hate.
This is simply factually inaccurate. If this were the case, muslim celebrities and billionaires simply would not exist in India. Of course there exists anti-muslim prejudice in India.
But your choice to paint the entire damn country with that brush? Your bigotry is leaking. Overtly now.
Oh dear! Your PM is “Hindu Hriday Samrat”. The man literally has Muslim blood on his hands. Enough said.
Your bigotry is naked for all to see. And the edit window has passed.
You are the anti-Pakistan bigot.
Your bigotry has been “naked” for months.
Crawl into your hole.
You are the one who lives in a hole called Pakistan, Kabir.
I’m an American national. Get with the program.
I know it makes you jealous.
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My understanding is that Jinnah and colleagues didn’t dispute the “ruler’s right” of Hari Singh to execute the IoA, but challenged the circumstances of it (it was under duress, the maharaja had lost his competence, the standstill agreement violated, ect.). To his credit, even more than Nehru/Patel, he ascribed to the idea of the princely states as sovereign. As such, de jure, he didn’t think that indic muslims were property of Pakistan. Also, The AIML didn’t really have a strong ground game in the princely states as a matter of principle, however, they forged an alliance with the Muslim Conference after the split from NC, and the former declared support for the Lahore resolution. Interestingly, the Muslim Conference was strong in Jammu , but not the Kashmir Valley, perhaps because the Punjabi social and cultural continuum extended naturally into the former not the latter. At any rate, I only came to say that the establishment Pakistani stance is fairly nuanced in that it has a legal/procedural underpinning that doesn’t need to axiomatically fall back to the universal acceptance of the two-nation theory. It may be overwrought and not in good faith (which India is also guilty of) but thats another matter.
Again such good depth; this is extremely high signal
>To his credit, even more than Nehru/Patel, he ascribed to the idea of the princely states as sovereign.
And how did Jinnah deal with said idea of ‘sovereign’ when it came to Kalat?
Being contrarian is one thing, but…
Well, if we are talking about the “ruler’s right” to decide than Junagadh belongs to Pakistan. The Nawab clearly acceded. India held a referendum there because the population was Hindu majority.
The Nizam of Hyderabad didn’t want to be part of Hindu-majority India. a “Police Action” was held there.
The Hindu Dogra ruler of Kashmir acceded to India. Kashmirii Muslims have never once been asked what they actually wanted.
India runs with the hare and hunts with the hounds.
The princely state of kashmir did have a legislative assembly, which is how we can credibly claim that there was some pro-Pakistan sentiment there, as well as pro “remain” sentiment. I wouldn’t say they’ve never had their voice heard.
Wrt to Junagadh, yes, we all know about the hypocrisy, in fact, lesser known is the coercion of other prominent rulers like the Maharaja of Mysore and that of Travancore.
The Kashmiri people were promised a plebsicite. By no one else than India’s founding father–Pandit Nehru.
This plebsicite has never been held.
Sheikh Abdullah did choose Nehru’s India but it was supposed to be a secular state. The Sheikh then spent most of the rest of his life in jail.
Kashmiri Muslims do not want to live in a Hindu majoritarian country.
so who is preventing them from going to Pakistan like UP and Punjabi Muslims.
After all UP Muslims did not take part of Lucknow or Delhi to Pakistan.
There is a difference between an offensive war and a defensive one.
And Pakistan didn’t “vindicate” itself during Sindoor.
They downed a few jets on the first day when SEAD/DEAD wasn’t done.
On the 10th, they watched impotently as their air bases were struck and their PAF personnel were killed (7th also they couldn’t stop any of the strikes but they were terrorists and not military personnel being killed).
10th was also done in daylight.
Ah yes! Pak Fauj is “impotent”
We are a nuclear weapon state–the only nuclear weapon state in the Muslim world. Don’t test us.
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Its utter chaos, and there’s not a lot of facts visible. Too much froth and disinfo floating around. Difficult to form opinions in the ‘fog of war’.
.
Israel is a saint compared to pakistan
And yet another anti-Pakistan opinion!
Israel has spent two years conducting a genocide in Gaza. Israel has attacked Iran. Israel is attacking Lebanon.
I’m sorry. There is no comparison with Pakistan.
Pakistan has spent 75 years. That’s why i said israel is saint compared to real apartheid state pakistan. Starting from ethnic cleansing in 1947 to 1950 hindu genocide ,to 1964, 1971 and lot others. Israel is nothing compared to jihadistan aka pakistan.
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not a troll (though this is a very trollish argument).
Israel is Occupying Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. This is according to international law. What territory is Pakistan Occupying? Indians will say “POK” (a very offensive term btw). However, the world calls AJK and GB “Pakistan-Administered Kashmir”. They are not considered Occupied under international law.
Israel spent the last two years committing genocide in Gaza. Israel is currently conducting an unprovoked war on Iran.
Your comment drips of anti-Pakistan animus.
Pakistan is occupying pakistan. A etho religious apartheid state built by settler colonialists based on TNT and holy land. With apartheid laws making non muslims as second class citizens. And carried out genocides based on Quran,Jihad,Gazwa Hind etc. Has been hub to hundreads of terrorists islamic organizations killing thousands of people in India by doing jihad bomb blasts and at same time killing hindus, forced conversions, blasphemy killings and terrorizing minorities since 75 years. Allued with USA in 1971 and waged jihad on Bengali hindus killing lakhs and displacing over crores. With rapes of hindu woman in large numbers as per islamic principle of Maal Ae Ganemat. The settler colonialists ashraf foreign muslims apartheid state called pakistan. Deal with truth
To mention hell Indian Army has gone through in 80s by constant attack by Jihadis coming from Jihadiistan.
You clearly have no idea what settler colonialism is.
Pakistanis are descendants of people who already lived in what become Pakistan in 1947. Refugees came from East Punjab and from UP. But the vast majority of the ancestors of Pakistanis were already in Pakistan.
No. It belonged to the Hindus who faced genocide.
Pakistan belongs to Pakistanis.
Sorry you’re so threatened by the existence of a sovereign Muslim nation-state.
You and RNJ should get a room. The two of you are meant to be.
Admin note: you are getting personal; you will lose your authorship
settler colonialism is Mughal colonization; Delhi sultanates colonization and others whose ruling class was exclusively foreigner i.e turkic or Persian. you may be one of them but most likely you were hindu who could not tolerate humiliation during islamic colonization because of ziziya or force or getting high ranks in colonial offices. who knows. infact it is my bad to compare “pakistan” with Israel. as Israel is highly developed, scientifically advances,and have contributed to medical , tech, inventions and most noble prizes. literally converted desert to a country. its my bad to compare. Sorry for my jewish friends who have read this. your country has been our all weather ally
when it comes to attacking India, or attempting to wrest Indian territory in J&K – Pakistan has been trounced impotently multiple times.
This is just history. Denial is a choice. A stupid one at that.
Sweetie, we are a nuclear weapon state. The only nuclear weapon state in the Muslim world.
Get over it.
That’s like winning the pensioners marathon lol. None of the Muslim countries are particularly strong countries.
Tiny Israel keeps them on their toes, sweetie.
Have you not seen the battle Iran is giving Israel?
Admin note: avoid the demographic engineering argument
Admin note: you saw it had been overwritten; dont add fuel
There are many districts and chunks of UP/Haryana that were “muslim majority” at 1947 and still are.
There is no “unfinished” business of partition. Partition was a messy divorce and sure there are many aspects of it that one can argue ‘should’ have been done different. Lahore, as you may or may not wish to acknowledge, was a clear Hindu Majority city, but was awarded to Pakistan.
If Pakistanis wish to cultivate the delusion that partition is somehow “unfinished” and borders can be re-drawn, then all bets are off, and claims on “inviolable” sovereignty on NWFP and Balochistan cannot be asserted either. If Pakistan allows itself the right to cherrypick and “revisit” partition, why shouldn’t Sindhis or Baloch do so.
This entire notion of “unfinished business of partition” is a utter mirage. And the refuge of scoundrels who wish to justify terrorism and irredentism in the name of religious supremacy (I will not use the word Apartheid since you find it so “triggering”).
Excellent points – while there is a bilateral dimension to Kashmir, arguing from the TNT perspective is just odd.
At any rate I’m not moderating this thread but for now I’m just going to confine all Kashmir discussion to this thread so that other threads don’t get derailed.
yes, its clearly an…incendiary topic and best to do that.
Clearly you do not understand the concept of Disputed Territory.
Pakistan Army is the official guardian of the “ideology of Pakistan”. Whether you like it or not the “ideology of Pakistan” is the Two Nation Theory. And According to TNT, Muslim-majority Kashmir is a natural part of Pakistan. Pak Fauj considers Kashmir the unfinished agenda of Partition. That is the official line of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Lahore was not a “clear Hindu majority city”. Your numbers are wrong. Hindus made up the elite of Lahore (as I’ve written in my own book) but Lahore district and the surrounding area was clearly Muslim majority. There was no way India was getting Lahore.
Also, get with the program, there is no such thing as “NWFP”. The place is called Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and has been called that for 20 years.
“what’s mine…… is mine. what’s yours I will stake claim on because yada yada yada”.
You’re not very smart.
The concept of “Disputed Territory” is very simple. I’m not wasting any more time with someone who is either incapable of understanding it or is pretending to be incapable of understanding it.
seriously you guys should take malabar
It simply isn’t. That’s the chooran that the kleptocracy uses to keep the awaam enslaved and exploited.
Admin note: don’t patronise Kabir by calling him “brother etc”, don’t push the line
Admin note: no need to sabre back
Pakistan is a project of not natives nut of settler colonialists. Ashraf invaders
Yet another person who doesn’t understand what settler colonialism is!
Pakistanis are the natives of the land.
Why does BP attract so much anti-Pakistani hatred?
“the issue will not go away until……..”
This is baked into Pakistan. This is what India is dealing with.
Admin note: “Muslim land” is just provocative
Muslim-majority land then.
The princely state of “Jammu and Kashmir” was Muslim-majority even before 1947.
Admin note: ethnic engineering = ethnic cleansing . Stop
@X.T.M: Not if it is natural.
Using your logic, do you believe in “white genocide” in the west due to decreasing TFR of white people and immigration?
What is happening in Kashmir is similar.
Kashmiris being richer are declining in numbers and immigrants from poorer parts of India (mostly Hindi belt) are coming there to take up the jobs, specifically blue collar ones.
This is also being replicated in South India, Punjab, Maharashtra etc. Is that “ethnic cleansing”?
Does this look like “ethnic cleansing”? This is the new Kashmir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moow-Lq1mUE
The pleasure you take in the declining fertility rate of Kashmiris is sick.
Kashmiri Muslims will not disappear in their own homeland.
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@XTM: This comment is literally gloating about ethnic engineering.
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Don’t worry. I will increase Kashmir’s fertility rate.
@XTM: This is truly a disgusting comment.
Why is this person an author?
What is disgusting about this? I will settle in Kashmir and have a few kids.
I have that right as an Indian citizen.
You don’t as a Pakistani citizen.
This is gross.
Especially given your obsession with Muslim women,
A non-Kashmiri “settling” in Kashmir is demographic change. This is not on.
“Pakistani citizen”– I am an American national. Get with the program.
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@XTM:
This guy has an obsession with Muslim women.
This is absolutely disgusting. “Conquering” the women of the other community is extremely offensive.
Admin Note; you will lose Author rights if there is another “.” Or “Admin Noted” comment today.
Once it is lost; you won’t be able to regain it for 30 calendar days.
did you edit Kabir’s comments in the Afghan thread?
No. Added a disclaimer but did not touch the original comment.
Why was that article deleted? Kabir complained too much?
Afghan lives don’t matter?
I have provided facts with sources in the comments. Don’t see why that was deleted.
This thread is exhausting – we will let that comment stand but BB gets very personal with you (unnecessarily & inappropriately).
We would like to remind the Commentariat; Pakistan Occupied Baluchistan is not a correct usage.
Even in a free wheeling thread , High Signal must be maintained.
With More Marines & Warships En Route, Fox Corners Trump On Iran Victory Plan & Off-Ramp
Pentagon chief Pete Hegseth approved a request from US Central Command for elements of an amphibious ready group and its attached Marine expeditionary unit – typically several warships carrying roughly 5,000 Marines and sailors, as reported in The Wall Street Journal. The reality is that 5,000 Marines still isn’t exactly an invasion force – especially for a country the size of Iran.
Most directly, this seems a response to Iran intensifying attacks around the critical Hormuz Strait shipping lane, but any Marine detachment of this size certainly raises the prospect of deepening involvement, potentially ‘on the ground’ or on shore at least to some extent
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-says-ayatollah-wounded-disfigured-while-other-iranian-leaders-defiantly-march
Not on CNN
Five Air Force Refueling Planes Struck In Iranian Missile Attack On Saudi Arabia
Five U.S. Air Force refueling planes were struck and damaged on the ground at Prince Sultan air base in Saudi Arabia, according to two U.S. officials.
The tankers were hit during an Iranian missile strike on the Saudi base in recent days, the officials said. U.S. Central Command declined to comment. The tankers were damaged but not fully destroyed and are being repaired, one of the officials said. No one was killed in the strikes.
The news brings the total number of Air Force refueling planes damaged or destroyed to at least seven.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-says-ayatollah-wounded-disfigured-while-other-iranian-leaders-defiantly-march
The SL two cyclists going across India visit a Buddhist temple in Andra Pradesh. They comment the area looks like Sri Lanka. (Narrative in Sinhala)
Andra Pradesh වල සැගවුණ බෞද්ධ උරැමයන් සොය ගිය අපුර්ව පාපැදි සංචාරය…Bojjannakonda and Lingalakonda are two rock-cut caves of Buddhist origin on adjacent hillocks situated near the village of Sankaram, Anakapalle of ancient Kalinga in the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh.The sites are believed to have been established between the 4th and 9th centuries AD, when Buddhism was the majority religion of Sankaram (Sangharam). The original name of Bojjannakonda is Buddina Konda.
https://web.facebook.com/reel/2125778581562731
For XTM specifically
In 1979, during the Iran hostage crisis, Iran released women and all the 13 Black hostages out of the 39 total hostages.
I am even more impressed by the Ayatollah Khamenei by that action
https://web.facebook.com/share/v/1FP7hc9MPC/
Apparently there is a Moral Police in Uttar Pradesh.
So my Opinion, Not a Hindu Muslim issue. A North Indian issue.
At Sheetla Mata Temple in UP, a police inspector questioned a brother-sister duo, wrongly assuming they were a couple, and called their father for verification. Despite confirmation, she insisted the woman must be accompanied, sparking outrage over moral policing and gender-based mobility restrictions.
https://web.facebook.com/reel/1536166264308996
The transgenders beg in the trains.
If you dont give money, they pull their pants down,
https://web.facebook.com/reel/3335280493314952
A must read
Israel, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Syria’s Jolani (fmr ISIS)
https://web.facebook.com/reel/764755123379484
Iran is not trying to kill Americans, they are destroying US billion dollar equipment piece by piece
The US has betrayed (whats new) South Korean, Gulf States by taking taking their THAAD and Patriot Missiles and giving to Israel
https://web.facebook.com/reel/899225433107168
Apparently those missiles caused a huge setback in South Korea – China relations
Not just diplomatic setbacks. IIRC, Lotte had to pull out of china, a massive multi-million haircut. SoKo Chaebols ate a lot of losses.
When will Trump/US realize they are almost checkmated.
The Latest
The Saudis are sending oil to the Red Sea port of Yanbu via the East West Pipeline.
Iran will not bomb that Pipeline while the Saudis play ball.
Smaller Suez-sized tankers can continue thru the Suez Canal.
The catch
Very Large Crude Carriers (Very Large Crude Carriers (VLCC)) cannot go thru the Suez. They have to get to the Arabian Sea via the Gulf of Aden. The Houthis will be waiting for the American and Israeli VLCC in the Gulf of Aden. It is about 32 km at the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden entrance. Sitting ducks one might say.
War On Iran: The Saudis’ Alternative Crude Export Outlet Is Also A Trap
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2026/03/war-on-iran-the-saudis-alternative-crude-export-outlet-is-also-a-trap.html
Everywhere I see (whether here or on X, instagram, reddit etc) Indians keep whining about the TNT while it appears that Pakistanis have clearly moved on. It’s been 80 years, but people still crying over spilt milk.
Watching news channels in Pakistan and I haven’t even seen TNT ever brought up outside of some very conservative corners of Pakistan. Most of us don’t care. We are look just at much towards our west than we do towards east, but mostly we look inwards. Even Bollywood connection with India has ruptured.. and while the elites may still maintain ties with each other, the dehati groups in both countries show how different we are from each other.
Indians should learn to just let go.
The Indians on this forum are specimens of a very particular right-wing view.
There are many many normal Indians who do accept the right of Pakistanis to have a sovereign nation-state.
The people here (“RecoveringNewsJunkie” is a particularly egregious example) cannot get over the existence of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. For these people, we should have been living under Hindu rule ever since 1947. He is threatened by proud Muslims ruling themselves.
Admin Note: BB speaking in anger here but “You would have been better under Indian rule like Indian Muslims are.”
This is very telling about settler colonial mindsets. India Muslims are not Israeli Arabs to be hemmed in, managed and ruled over. As Kabir says they are indigenous to the land.
These are very problematic comments.
Original Comment by BB below:
You would have been better under Indian rule like Indian Muslims are.
Just accept it that Pakistani Muslims are converts from certain groups which are not enough for nation building.
Pakistanis are half a people as all the mercantile/intellectual groups fled leaving them with only feudal/martial groups.
Must we do this again?
My family has had chauffeurs for 100 years. Your obsession with 70cc bikes is really stupid.
Thank God, I am part of the majority group in Pakistan and not a beleaguered minority like Indian Muslims are.
Don’t get personal with me.
Admin Note: enough
Threatened? LMAO. First of all, muslims aren’t ‘ruling themselves’ in the kleptocracy that is Pakistan.
Second, the utter dysfunctional bankrupt basket-case that is present-day Pakistan is a laughing stock, not a threat.
We are absolutely ruling ourselves. Muslim Prime Minister, Muslim Army Chief, Muslim President.
Pakistan is a nuclear-armed Muslim power.
Keep typing “kleptocracy” and other shit.
We are your worst nightmare.
You are a Hindutvadi and cannot deal with proud self-respecting Muslims.
Get a grip.
Aam admin in Pakistan is VERY influenced by Bollywood and the common culture.
Shararat dance videos were viral in Pakistan.
It was Kabir who brought up TNT for Kashmir
This was true in the 1990’s and 2000’s. There were ‘Eid Mubarak’ cards with Sharhukh Khan’s face plastered on it back then and most new releases were uploaded everyother day on cable tv. But not anymore, none of my friends or family or younger cousins or their friends watch Bollywood anymore, so clearly urban Gen Z is not into it. Too many anti-Pakistan movies, coupled with many other sources of entertainment.
Absolutely. No one cares about Bollywood anymore.
We’ve realized that Indian movies are by default anti-Pakistan.
Lol, I’m on record here on BP pointing out that partition has probably turned out to be a silver lining by ‘outsourcing’ the challenge of managing the delusions of building Islamic state to beyond Indian borders. Pakistan stands as a living, failing example, externalized. And yet, India still has a non-trivial percentage of its muslim citizens romanticizing such notions.
Overwhelming majority of Indians are fine to just ignore Pakistan – except for the periodic ritual humiliation in world cups.