In the comments on “Pakistanis=Indian Muslims With Sovereignty”, BB argued that India is a “Muslim Power”. This is a patently ridiculous argument but it merits a full rebuttal.
The simple fact is that India is NOT a Muslim country. India is 80% Hindu. Muslims are a minority (approximately 15%). India is a constitutionally secular state. So under no reasonable definition is India a “Muslim Power”.
Pakistan is the world’s second-largest Muslim-majority country. It is projected that within five years it will overtake Indonesia to become the world’s most populous Muslim country. Additionally, Pakistan is the only Muslim-majority nuclear power. Finally, Pakistan is an “Islamic Republic”.
This argument is so blatantly ridiculous and disingenuous that I can’t believe this clarification is even necessary. But here we are.
I’d also like to take this opportunity to clarify my exchange with El Khawaja. He argued that “Pakistanis are Pakistani and that’s it”. I disagree with this position. I am as patriotic as the next Pakistani but this quote expresses the belief of the State — a belief I argue is fundamentally wrong.
Post the loss of East Pakistan in 1971, the Pakistani State has doubled down on the belief that we are all “Pakistanis first”. The argument goes that if people are allowed to identify as “Punjabi”, “Sindhi” etc this may lead to secession. This is obviously a red line for the State. Thus, the introduction of “Pak Studies”, a course that all students must take from primary school through their undergraduate studies.
However, this indoctrination has not served to lessen people’s feelings of being “Punjabi”, “Sindhi” etc.
It would be much healthier if the Pakistani State accepted that Pakistan is a multi-ethnic–NOT multinational– country.
Seccession is not a realistic possibility since Pakistan is a nuclear power. So I think the State’s worries on this ground are overblown.
The efforts of BB (and to some extent RNJ) to undermine the Pakistani identity and classify us as “Indian” are patently obvious and not intellectually tenable.
However, I do believe that my compatriots also go too far and try to downplay the links that Pakistan has with the “Indian subcontinent”.
“I’d also like to take this opportunity to clarify my exchange with El Khawaja. He argued that “Pakistanis are Pakistani and that’s it”. I disagree with this position. I am as patriotic as the next Pakistani but this quote expresses the belief of the State — a belief I argue is fundamentally wrong.
Post the loss of East Pakistan in 1971, the Pakistani State has doubled down on the belief that we are all “Pakistanis first”. The argument goes that if people are allowed to identify as “Punjabi”, “Sindhi” etc this may lead to secession. This is obviously a red line for the State. Thus, the introduction of “Pak Studies”, a course that all students must take from primary school through their undergraduate studies.”
This is a misrepresentation of what I said. I didn’t deny the ethnic diversity or various subnational identities within Pakistan and neither did I rank any of these identities in order. When I said Pakistanis are Pakistanis, that was in response to the thread title that Pakistanis were supposedly just “Muslim Indians that strayed. For me Pakistani is a nationality that stands entirely on its own legs, the same way a Canadian is a Canadian and an American is an American and Brazilian is a Brazilian – this isn’t to deny the vast diversity in each of those countries and the various identities that exist nor does it insinuate that everyone from those countries necessarily identifies with the civic national identity first.
We are the Admin of this site and we have just gone through your comments, which are racist against the ancient and noble Dravidian People.
Do that again and we will remove every single comment of yours on this site.
Chennai is, far and away, the best city in the entire Indian Subcontinent.
Every single one of my comments was in retaliation against racism and hate directed against Pakistanis from username: BombayBadshah. Apparently he gets a free reign to be racist despite his very first article (greenlighted by admins) that sexualized and fetishized Pakistani women a couple months back. You can ask Kabir who started with the insults.
Dravidians may be a noble culture and Chennai may be a great city, that’s fine but to expect Pakistanis to constantly absorb racist abuse and not say anything back is unrealistic and unfair.
Respect is mutual.
Have they not been moderated out; both of you cannot stress the moderation load.
You are new hence we have shown more latitude but do not stoop to a low level. We have removed more than a 100 comments in a single sitting.
Our policies are evolving, fairly strict but fundamentally fair.
Nope, he was posting all kinds of insults.
Anyways I do apologize for getting carried away in the heat of the moment and any offense caused to any South Indian posters.
Yes please don’t do that again. This still is moderated just not on a full time basis; commentators are encouraged to email in offensive comments to be moderated out.
You’re not objectively superior in anyway, whatever that even means.
Here is what “objective” metrics mean –
HDI
GDP per capita
Literacy rate
Metro networks
Etc etc
It doesn’t matter what people score on those metrics, if there is obsession.
You are the one on a site whose credo is “Bharat Mata ki Jai”.
At no point was I ever “racist” to Pakistanis before El Khawaja’s meltdown. I wasn’t even interacting with Kabir.
Stating facts like HDI, per capita income is not “racist”. Saying that Bangladesh split away in 1971 is not “racist”. They are FACTs.
Secondly his meltdown makes no sense considering
So to go mask off and start making racist statements (which don’t even make sense considering Pakistan is so backward compared to South India/Sri Lanka) is indicative of larger issues especially with his own sense of identity and belonging in American culture and being constantly overshadowed by Indians including South Indians.
These are things common in second generation POCs and have to be resolved in therapy not by making inane low signal comments on BP like “South Indians are the heart of anti Pakistan trolling on the net”.
I assume this comes from the false sense of superiority that many Pakistanis have regarding skin colour that they “feel” superior to a people who are objectively superior.
I wonder what their reaction will be when they realize many African countries are objectively better off than Pakistan and they are even more kaala.
You’re blatantly lying, every single one of your comments is laced with insults whether it be about race, religion, jobs, female relatives,etc
Yes he does and can see your insults and constantly belittling of Pakistan and insults towards Pakistanis and the constant debasement of our identity. Your initial posts weren’t even about economic metrics (which is irrelevant in a cultural discussion) but all about trying to tear down and insult Pakistan and how we choose to identify. No one would take kindly to comments by people deny their culture and the constant vilification of our people.
No, most of my posts are about Indian cinema/TV shows.
Facts are not insults.
Bangladesh splitting away in 1971 with Indian help is a FACT.
Pakistan’s socioeconomic indicators vis a vis the other subcontinental nations is a FACT.
It is you who went mask off and started using wignat tropes against Dravidians when Dravidians “mog” Pakistanis and have throughout history.
“Spear chuckers” lol. You are confusing your dark skinned people.
South India has had great empires like the Chola and the Vijaynagara.
You can see “Dravidian” influence even now in South East Asia which they conquered.
What is the biggest empire by a Punjabi/Sindhi Muslim?
There’s no “mask off”, it’s retaliation for every one of your insults towards Pakistanis and your attempts are trying to insult and debase of our identity. Telling someone that their country’s culture or identity is that of another country, doesn’t fly well with most national groups. Trying doing what you did to an Albanian or an Indonesian, they wouldn’t put up with that.
Spearchuckers doesn’t even refer to Africans, it’s a term used by northeast Asians for southeast Asians and in the context of south Asia it would refer to the regions south of the vindhyas.
Dravidian Civilisation is a cut above; go to Mahabalipurram and be in awe of what Dravidian Empires were creating millennia ago.
“in the context of south Asia it would refer to the regions south of the vindhyas.”
No it doesn’t.
NE Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) are richer/more developed than poorer SE Asians (Thai/Filipino/Indonesians) so they are “spear chuckers” in comparison.
That does not work in a south asian context. The regions south of the vindhyas are the richest/most developed while Pakistan is the poorest/least developed (with North India/Bangladesh in between).
So, in the context of South Asia it refers to Pakistan.
Pakistani culture (at least subsets) is Indian culture is a FACT attested by @Kabir himself who actually lives in Pakistan and has made a post about it.
Funny you mentioned Indonesians who literally celebrate their Hindu/Indian influence as they were once part of the Dravidian Chola empire.
Their national airlines is Garuda Airlines.
They have performances of the Ramayana.
Their names are literally something like Mohammad Vishnu.
Sri Lanka and the Maldives are probably the most developed parts of the Indian Subcontinent?
The more Dravidian = the more prosperous seems a good rule?
Maldives, Sri Lanka, Kerala, TN.
Another bright spot is some parts of the NE.
Sikkim, Bhutan, Mizoram.
True North India also decently developed – Punjab, Haryana, Delhi, Himachal, Uttarakhand, J&K.
it does not matter BB; you know the rules .
It’s not about “getting dirty” we would have understood had there been no moderation or you didn’t have access to the Admin.
After Kabir, you are the most indulged Commentator on this site, because we are fond of both of you and your perennial antics.
But be like Kabir, he made two excellent posts and is using his Author Privileges, which you have.
Instead you are duelling it with a new commentator like El Khwaja, who is yet to be fully acquainted with the site.
Don’t abuse that. And you have excellent facts and figures and arguments; use them in a post like how Kabir did?
I am on vacation and don’t have access to my password. Will make posts when am back.
Excellent post, Bravo Kabir.
it’s fairly obvious there is a
USA-Israel-India-UAE axis
China-Russia-Iran-North Korea Quad
EU, rest of GCC & Pakistan kind of straddle both