268 thoughts on “Open Thread – Brown Pundits – 2/26/2022”

  1. “The others achieved IQ scores of 130-145, which puts them in the category of ‘very gifted’ children. The average score in Mensa India’s IQ test is between 85 and 115. Interestingly, all of these children are sons and daughters of labourers, rickshaw pullers, security guards, street vendors, etc.”


    “In the past couple of months, Mensa India, Delhi, administered its internationally recognized IQ test to over 4,000 underprivileged children in Delhi and NCR as part of a unique project aimed at identifying and mentoring poor children with high IQ. Of the 102 extremely bright children it selected, over a dozen, including Amisha, achieved an IQ score of 145-plus, which puts her in the genius category.”

    12/4000 is .3%

    102/4000 is about top 2.5%

    Basically at 2 SDs above the mean ir works out the average is a 100. 3SD extrapolation brings it up more, if it’s a perfectly normal distribution

    Let’s take the prior case, and say average is 100. So children of largely lower strata people average an IQ of 100 in malnourished India. Truly incredible but not consistent with prior data, though this seems to be the most recent.

    1. Truly incredible but not consistent with prior data

      What exactly is the prior data? I don’t trust the Richard Lynn stuff. I also think the “national IQ” numbers you see bandied about on the web (like 82 for India) are bogus and unscientific. (Many of the IQs are estimated by averaging the IQs of neighboring countries in the absence of other data.)

      The results of the PISA tests they did about a decade ago also should not be taken as reflecting the aptitude of children but rather the competence of their educational institutions. I don’t know if things have improved under Modi’s watch but government schools generally were abysmal in India, with absentee teachers and non-existent facilities.

      1. True. I have seen many estimates of Indian IQ in the high 90s. There was one study of UK Indian average of 97. Interesting to see 100+. Even better it is low strata people. The outcomes are what they are. But this one is nice because it also is in line with an egalitarian world view and challenges assertions about Indian intellectual potential, especially among lower caste people. To me, that is a good thing.

        1. is intelligence inherited from father or mother?. if it is from mother, then great intelligence of vyasa, vidura etc needs to be questioned, as they were endowed with intelligence from their fathers.

        1. Have they done similar surveys in other countries? If so what were the results in other countries?

  2. A reason why we need to bring IQ tests into country, identify kids at a early age. we need excuses to find a way to give many kids opportunity. ofcourse iq does not guarantee success. But thats ok, we have to try to give many kids opportunities.

      1. I really don’t care either ways. The only country India can meaningfully use in these sort of things is Afghanistan.


        This invasion will make invasion of Taiwan so much more difficult.


        Wars now (and in the future) result in so few casualties that the Chinese way of not giving a fuck about the world might actually work. India is already good at this nonsense so not really a lesson for us.


        Mental space: I like how Modi is chilling out and doing his job without giving a fuck about Ukraine. Today he asked for more private medical schools to be set up. Hopefully will try to bring down the massive bribes required to do so. Medical education is a low hanging fruit. Saw how bad ‘nursing homes’ type places are first hand last year.

        Poorly trained (primary) doctor >>> fake doctor


        UAE might swallow Socotra. Abstained today for no good reason.



        Mental space is important, too much goes on in the world but too much remains to be done in India. In this regard, I like how Indian ministers are professional and do their jobs without wasting time on international affairs.

        1. ‘I like how Indian ministers are professional and do their jobs without wasting time ‘

          If anything i feel both Indian babus and ministers are the biggest time waster in the whole wide world. Indian ministers throughput is the lowest in the world.

          1. Obviously they waste time. But don’t you thin think that no one really cared when Afghanistan went under or Yemen or Ukraine. No matter who does what India’s political commentary remains focused on China and Pakistan.

            I remember the days of ‘Jaarge Buss haay-haay!’ , grandstanding in UN like voting for Palestine, opposing nuclear deal, that type thing is on the decline. It could be largely because the left is out of power.

        2. well u a e flipped back yesterday and voted with u s a. is china behind the abstained african and bangladeshi votes in u n g a?

    1. Are they? If baseline assumption was that Putin was going to shock and awe and flatten Kyiv, then this looks weak. But reality seems to be that Russia wants to minimize collateral damage so the next regime can govern. This is considerably tougher, I’d imagine

  3. Just noticed that recent post “Much Ado about Eileen Gu” by “Raj Dharbanga” disappeared.

  4. The chimerica nexus seems to be coming out on top with this whole Ukraine episode. Expect G2 world. Serious strategic headwinds for India. Only reprieve is that pakis snatched defeat from jaws of victory. Just imagine the scenario if they were a little more tactful in AFG. Pak will still be used as a spear head to keep India inline or Balkanize it if needed.

  5. Ukrainian soldiers are now preventing Indian students from crossing the border into Poland, as retaliation for India’s abstention in the UN security council vote. If I were in charge, I’d offer to join the Russian effort with airstrikes against Ukraine as retaliation. But India is run by far more pacifist leadership than me.

  6. I see perhaps US expected russia to do this and planned and prepared ukraine in laying a trap in frustrating russia. The more russia is frustrated, the more unhinged putin can become, unless he can hammer out a peacedeal and quit. which would be good for all. I dont know but perhaps russians dont intend to be ruthless?, but the more they are frustrated, the longer they dont get a deal,The worse things can get. Given the negative cost russia is most certainly going to suffer from this, they need some kind of a win for sure. some facesaving measure. In times such as this, face saving mechanisms are very very important. Russia is desperate for somekind of a win out of all this.

    1. I still consider this as advantage russia. Given their army and capabilities as better overall. But I doubt whether they have clear goals on what to achieve and wonder whether their soldiers are prepared to being ruthless.
      But I now see this as russia committed itself to this completely. It is always better to find a face saver for all sides. Also, I find ukraine really dumb for accepting these risks.

  7. Asia, say no to Nato – The Straits Times
    Dear Friends,
    Many Western minds believe that Western societies are inherently peaceful while East Asian societies (including China) are more belligerent. There’s some realistic basis for this assumption: prospects of war between any two Western societies are practically zero. They are not practically zero between East Asian societies.
    Yet curiously, despite this pacifist streak, it’s shocking that just in the past 20 years, Western powers have dropped 326,000 bombs in the greater Middle East/North Africa region. This total amounts to an average of 46 bombs dropped per day over the past 20 years. By contrast, the total number of bombs dropped in inter-state conflicts in East Asia in the past 20 years is: ZERO!
    This huge disparity calls for some serious investigation. The East Asian societies may have worked out a pragmatic peace-preserving culture. If so, this culture should not be disrupted. This is why I decided to publish the attached piece in the Straits Times with a simple message to my fellow Asians: say no to NATO.
    It reflects a key point I also make in “Has the West Lost it?”: the West should just stop dropping bombs!
    With warm regards,
    Kishore Mahbubani
    The Pacific has no need of the destructive militaristic culture of the Atlantic alliance

  8. It’s pretty interesting to see the amount of propaganda on social media these days.

    I think that if India is ever going to get into war, we’re pretty much screwed. Indian cretinism makes us uniquely susceptible to psyops.

    Can very well imagine China being painted as the egalitarian good guy whose interests Nazi Brahminical India was unfairly impinging on. This will be cheered on by desi diaspora.

    1. Why paint only the diaspora as such? I mean in the 62 war, Indians of certain less-Hindu ethnicities, cheered for China over India.

      1. The enemies are radical islam and communism. That is what being “less Hindu” is all about. Those are the real ideologies that are messing things up. It isn’t the “lack of Hinduism” per say.

  9. The people of Ukraine have inspired all of us with their courage and determination. One country that has not forcefully condemned the Russian war of aggression or offered aid to Ukraine is India

    I urge all of the Indians who read this blog to urge their politicians to side with peace and freedom. Condemn Russian aggression and send aid to Ukraine.

    1. The sentiment over here about the conflict is quite pro-Russia. The only folks really advocating for Ukraine are Netflix-watching, Guardian-reading sorts. A small demographic. People have reached the conclusion that the way we’ve seen global opinion rallying to oppose Putin, can easily be directed here one day. Furthermore, there is a sense that Ukraine is cynically/tragically being used by the US/UK to advance its containment strategy. Don’t expect any of this to change. Indian social media is already circulating videos of Ukrainian border guards roughing up Indian female students as well as point by point reminders of every time Ukraine was part of coercive diplomacy initiatives by the west.

  10. Extreme punitive sanctions on Russia like ejecting them from SWIFT is only going to hasten the demise of the western led global financial system, and in the long term, this is only a good thing for everyone outside the west.

    1. The more i read on SWIFT , the more i feel its actually a punitive action which Russia/China fear.

      And perhaps not easily substitutable, or else China would have copied it, or Russia would have isolated its economy from it. So i wouldn’t go far as to predict ‘ the demise of the western led global financial system,’

  11. SWIFT – many of its layers/components were built by desis, PIOs and NRIs over the past 2 decades. It is also being maintained by a vast Indian army of engineers.

    Unlike what many plebs think, including on BP, SWIFT is not analogous to a electric circuit where things can be switched off at will.

    Only the automatic transfers have been blocked for Russia and its intermediaries. Manual transfers with hop steps are possible and doable, almost impossible to block out.

    This is what the West is afraid of – the ability of India to do the jugaad on SWIFT for Russians. Deep waters …..

    The long term military outcome is gamed into Indian decisions. Ukraine will return to the Asian fold.

    1. Though it does boost my self ego, not everything in the world is related to ‘This is what the West is afraid of – the ability of India to do the jugaad’

    2. @Ugra bhai
      India Motor-Sich/Antonov/Zorya-Mashproekt ko kyu nai khareeda tha? Bolte hain SCE-200 RD-810 pe based hai, jab itna ho gaya tha toh why not jet engines? Abhi woh do Russian frigate, jo atke hain bina engine, ka kya hoga?

      1. Ukraine regime will be a puppet. Not much will change. In fact, India will be among the few countries that will pay hard currency or an exchange mechanism for Ukrainian products once the new regime is in place.

        1. Why though ? If it’s a puppet regime, and considering we have the least critical of Russia ( even less than China ) , we might just get better Ukrainian deals thru Putin sahab.

    1. They don’t want Indian-ness to lose its positive woke valence. Think about the consequences if a little asterisk showed up next to their identification as POCs 😜. One fairly certain thing is that they barely give a thought otherwise about the civil liberties of Udupi district’s Muslim community

  12. what happens if putin follows hitler. pull the nuclear trigger on U S and shoot him self. will west bomb russia?

  13. It is time India brings a law that criminalizes those who deny the medieval Islamic bigotry towards Hindus/Sikhs in this country. The anti defense that masquerades as secularism shields islamists . Enough of audrey trushkes and their colonized helpers. One does not argue with such bigots, one brings them to justice and corrects such discourse. Govt should do this or PIL should be filed on this.

    1. Censorship will give them validation. It will make them heroes in the eyes of the Global Left, do you want that?

      “one brings them to justice and corrects such discourse”
      The best way to deal with it is by ignoring them, the Wokes/Marxists are demographically irrelevant and should be treated as such.

      1. @enigma
        //Censorship will give them validation. It will make them heroes in the eyes of the Global Left, do you want that?//

        Validation comes from people of India. It would be no different than holocaust denial. Also allow freedom of speech and remove blasphemy laws.
        “one brings them to justice and corrects such discourse”
        The best way to deal with it is by ignoring them, the Wokes/Marxists are demographically irrelevant and should be treated as such.//

        This has proven to be the wrong strategy, we have lost many smart minds, many coopted, and resistence to even simple reforms has been activated. At every turn, doing the most common sense things is stalled. We are poor precisely because this ideology wasted away 7 decades of generations of brains and even now, people look to “academia” rather than empirical evidence as a way forward. The real costs to India lagging behind for 70 yrs following moronic economic, political policies has hurt us enough already. And these attacks will only keep increasing/ this attempt to coopt and stall India’s rise will only increase. This is a short window they have. as has been said by many before on the net, India even with 3% growth over 50 yrs will be over 13 trillion $ economy. in another 70 yrs, India will become a superpower. This is guaranteed. 100% , provided climate change does not hurt us badly. What is not guaranteed is the demographic majority of the country and their values. One can bring a judicial review of education and see whether it is fair or not. The fact is that bjp seeks its own electoral success above everything in this country. muslim baiting is very important for bjp electorally. Keeping Hindus insecure and timid is very important for them. They dont intend to fix the issues of insecurity, they only aim to funnel this into votes. This is a quasi fascist view of politics. It seeks to stir the pot only to win elections and never to fix any issue. One could easily have dealt with all these issues, if that really was the intention. It seems bjp seeks to thrive off these tensions. Not good for society as a whole. generations of smart people will be lost to bullshit culture wars, who can instead be productive, for their own good and good of society.

        The primary evidence for me as to why intervention is necessary now is to look back the previous 70 yrs of loss Intellectually, economically that we lost to false ideas. Had we fixed our ideas first, we might very well have been a developed super power by now. we need to plug the hole that has been sinking us. People dont seem to understand what is happening. This is the age of subversion/ cooption of elites and wokes from previous disadvantaged communities with the explicit purpose to expand the american financial empire. Wars are unaffordable in today’s world. Hence subversion, cooption is very attractive

        The whole culture for past 40 yrs has bowed down to wokes. So, data is against you.

  14. The Ukraine conflict shows up the “mimic – men” of India, the liberals. Consider a few talking points our compradors spout.

    1. Politics and sports should be kept separate. Not a single squeak about how sporting events are being politicized heavily right now.

    2. People must not be affected by inter-state disputes. Again no reservations about what’s going now. Apple pay and Google pay blocked – thousands of commuters stranded in Moscow.

    In every aspect, VS Naipaul long foresaw the mental and intellectual bankruptcy of the westernised Indian elite. Absolutely visionary from 50 years ago.

    1. “The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing, have no place in it.”

  15. The sentiment over here about the conflict is quite pro-Russia.

    Looks pretty balanced.
    Most are in the neutral camp.
    And even among the “pro-Russia” people, most are anti-west than pro-Russia.
    RW has also sarcastically mocked the left for not supporting Russia, given how they praise Mughal invasions.

    Some clown brought out some “Ukraine went against India XYZ times in the past” and it’s doing the round on social media, but even then the overall opinion seems to be neutral.
    Eastern Europe is getting a lot of shit for all the racism, but doesn’t seem to have made a major dent.

  16. A theory about the political structure of the IVC:
    Jatis are powerful, organic units of social organization. Jatis may pre-date the IVC. So what if Jatis were an alternative to states in the IVC? Instead of political power being distributed according to geography, what if it was distributed according to jati? What if each jati was a sovereign entity, responsible for ruling and policing its own members, and maintaining relations with other jatis?

    As jatis are specialized towards a particular profession, they are by necessity reliant upon each other – preventing warfare between jatis in a given locale. But because there is more affinity within jati cross-country than there is between jatis in a given locale, inter-city warfare is also unlikely. Each jati is able to maintain control over itself, but will not tolerate subjugation by another – therefore, cities do not have and cannot tolerate kings.

    This would explain most of the odd features of the IVC, no? Why wouldn’t the most unique feature of later Indian civilization explain the uniqueness of the first Indian civilization? The transition from jati-archy (gentocracy? jatiraj?) to non-political jati and geographical states in the Aryan period isn’t hard to explain. Conventional states are hard to get rid of once you have them. Resource scarcity and/or Aryan invaders brought zero-sum warfare of conquest and subjugation to the subcontinent, and from that point on negotiated peace between sovereign jatis was no longer a competitive form of social organization.

    1. I am myself taken in by that line of thinking for a plethora of reasons.
      But only some ancient DNA would be able to shed some light on it – if indeed there was substructure in IVC pops which persisted the integration phase

    1. Its alright. The attack on Hindu-dom will push the middle-of-the-road US hindu to pick a side. It will also mark the heretics and the less-Hindu. Once that process is complete, we would be better placed for this fight.

  17. This war has only one real winner: China. The Yuan will strengthen in importance as Russia’s euro and dollar assets get frozen. Russia’s dependence on Beijing will deepen and China can expect cheap and preferential terms on their fossil fuel imports.

    As for Taiwan, the lesson seems to be that you need overwhelming force in the first 48 hours if you’re going to invade and not try to avoid civilian casualties like Russia did during the first 3-4 days.

    But I still think an invasion of Taiwan is unlikely in the coming years. The smart policy for China would be to continue building national strength and then just do an outright blockade where they’d force the island into submission. No military intervention could be possible after China’s navy + ballistic missiles are so numerous that it would be suicide. Would the US risk nuclear war over the island? No.

    The risk for China is sanctions. That is the heavy price that Russia will now play. China is a lot stronger than Russia but isn’t strong enough to shrug them off completely. Xi is not a gambler like Putin, so any real movement towards forced re-unification will not happen in the foreseeable future.

    As for India, this crisis has shown the merits of the much-derided “non-alignment policy” that so many pro-Western shills have castigated. It was a wise policy for India that served it for decades and it continues to be the right response now.

    1. Wrong conclusions, Principia.

      Greatest impact will be on EU. Rearmament will once again turn Europe into an armed camp. US influence will wane.

      Ukrainian elites will be made an example of. Poles are next in line.

      On the contrary, the war will re-invigorate Russian economy. Basic Keynesian principles. It will trigger Russian resurgence in core areas.

      Peace makes men weak. War revitalises them.

      1. the war will re-invigorate Russian economy.

        Thanks for the comic relief, ugra. And a good reminder never to take anything you say seriously, LOL.

        1. @principia

          You are mindlessly regurgitating whatever propaganda your Eurozone media houses are feeding you.

          Would have greatly helped if you posted any stats. Guess that would be too much reading for you.

          Iran, which faces almost the same set of sanctions since 2015 has grown at an average annualized rate of 1.5% over the last 5 years. Even during the Corona years.

          Coming to Russia –

          1. Oil and gas exporter
          2. Top trading partner is China
          3. Almost every African and Asian country will bust sanctions.
          4. Holds the Security Council permanent vote. No UN approvals for sanctions.

          Europeans have bottled up impotent rage when they want to tackle the Bear. I can understand your loss of composure.

        2. @principia

          Russia produces approximately 12% of the world’s oil.
          Iran is already sanctioned and it produces barely 4%.

          A 2% shortfall produces a 20USD hike per barrel. If Russian oil vanishes from the market, we are looking at 200 USD/bbl. This is why Biden opened the American oil strategic reserves yesterday.

          In a scenario with competing constraints, the one with the lowest impact will disappear first. Between SWIFT and Oil, the latter has the highest impact. The world will find a way to trade oil without SWIFT but not the other way around.

          For starters, you could start reading some commodity news apart from tabloids.

  18. There is too much culture wars, its terrible in terms of distractions. It would be good if people formed a Hindu scholars society and take funds directly that we can contribute to once every month. And they help create scholarship. Clearly, bjp has no value for such things. It should be led by people, maybe, BP can be a place for the word to spread as many here have an issue of Hindu inability to respond meaningfully. It would be good to outsource many of our objections without duplications and wasting of resources twice over and wasting time to bs culture wars for everyone. Let some fight and let others support instead.

  19. 303 seats with a Rayta regime:

    CAA passed after many protests: Amit Shah proudly said recently that they’ve not implemented CAA till now even after 3 years.

    Farm Laws: Taken back after unable to take action on Terrorists who blocked highways for over a year.

    NRC & UCC: BJP proudly said they’ve no plans to bring NRC or UCC.

    CENSUS 2020: Other countries have already completed their census of 2020. India still hasn’t started and don’t know if it will even happen even after 2+ years.

    1. UCC is lowest hanging fruit and biggest failure. Even leftist clowns on /Rindia are ok with it on a whole. I have no idea what is stalling it. Farm laws was a disaster. That fight was just kicked down the road another couple of decades. The rentier class extortionists won that round with the help of a lot of foreign support.

      1. I doubt UCC will be ever be implemented. The next BJP term in 2024 will most probably throw lesser numbers for BJP, so thankfully no UCC.

        Farm laws was a disaster because (just like CAA) u want to help ‘people’ who do not to help themselves , and u think that u are somehow the well-wisher of all man-kind. Again, thankfully it was defeated. Now no one in their right mind will ever touch ‘agriculture reforms’ in next 50 years. And just like China, farmers will move from agriculture to other industries through their own violation, rather than being sanctimonious about it.

  20. does coke studio bangla give a false picture of bangladesh as a place where hindus and muslims are ok with each other in the cultural space? or is it just a metropolitan fringe and the masses are separated?

    1. I hope the Chinese get the same elite (and bureaucrats) that Indians have. That alone can guarantee that India can catch up to China. 🙂

  21. https://theprint.in/india/proud-muslims-or-radical-islamists-why-pfi-is-linked-to-everything-from-hijab-row-to-terror-plots/843531/


    It seems the relative peace in India on religious front was largely due to poverty, once poverty ends, religious ideology takes over. Islamist organisations shall grow at expense of “secular ones” and get limited power/ influence in society
    The more pfi and its associated political fronts grow, the more we are in for serious trouble. Money allows for radicalisation to grow for it allows luxury to pursue ideology.

  22. Extent of Russian progress in Ukraine so far


    For background context, Ukraine is approx. 1.5 times bigger than Iraq and having much more challenging terrain for armored columns (rivers, mountains, frost).

    Russians have adopted a “polygon̈” approach tactically – smaller areas are controlled first in disparate areas of the map, which then “grow” to link up with adjacent polygons providing unrestricted access or corridors.

    Strategically they are going in for the “capturing the capital” – once the capital falls, the rest of the population gives up. This has been a standard feature of many campaigns historically – Nader Shah into Delhi, for example.

    To note, this is just the 8th day since the start of the campaign. For comparison, the US took almost 25 days to march into Baghdad since the start.

    Most of the Anglophone media and also European (like in the Netherlands) are propagating some harebrained view that Putin is unstable and impulsive. The military plan looks anything but kneejerk. Perhaps this was planned for many years, maybe since the Euromaidan protests in 2013.

    Almost everything must have been choreographed and gamed into state calculations. States don’t go to war without calculations of fallout. Sanctions and diplomatic maneouvering are all inside the matrix, not outside.

    The West’s weaponisation of everything (football, Apple Pay, SWIFT, Vodka) is so silly that it will be marked down as the most visible sign of effete powers in later years.

    China has been preparing for such an eventuality for many years now – building their own internet, payment systems, reserve currencies – for exactly such a scenario.

    The end of European Socialism/Welfarism/Environtalism may be beginning. Only peace is conducive to such surplus redistribution. Wartime states cannot afford to spend their surplus on welfare. The Nordic model will begin to fray.

    Leon Trotsky captured it succinctly, “You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You”.

    1. Ugra –
      “China has been preparing for such an eventuality for many years now – building their own internet, payment systems, reserve currencies – for exactly such a scenario”

      That’s interesting. But I think the biggest benefit to having their own internet, something Russia will now be forced into though Putin will probably be glad for it, is the possibility of having their own memetic space – their own corner of the internet free of cultural infestation from the Anglo-Euro world. There is a lot of good that will be missed since this is now the world’s default culture but they also get to avoid it’s attendant rubbish such as wokeism from creating divisions within their cultures.

  23. u p elections:- every round is being given to s p by the hindi walla channels. is b j p performing so bad as to loose from 303 to 85 seats?

  24. Is closing of ranks of the Western world behind Ukraine proof that white people asabiyya still exists? Or is it something else?

    If we get invaded by China, would any of these countries even sanction China, let alone threaten WW3 over it?

    Personally, I support the Ukrainians and think Russia is clearly the guilty party, but the volcanic anger at Russia and Russians is the true black swan in my view. I sort of expected the invasion to happen but not this kind of reaction.

  25. Slavs were considered subhumans by the AngloSaxons, but now that blue eyed blonde haired people are going extinct fast, they are accepted as White. So there is a racial element to it for sure, but I doubt they will risk war for Slavic nations. Infact I very much doubt that NATO will come to Poland’s aid if they believe they will risk getting nuked over it , article 5 be damned.

    Also, Indians are at the bottom of the list for most white westerners racially speaking. Whites hate China as a country, but they heavily dislike Indians as a race – like blacks. In a conflict with China, India will be alone. And this is why I personally think India’s policy to bat for the West against China is a foolish policy. It’s justified as ”China is expansionist”, while completely ignoring Western expansionism, not just militarily but also culturally.

    1. On the racism part you play down Chinese racism against Indians. Its on par with white racism or more than that. And vice-versa. Its just that there has been less interaction and therefore less chance for racism b/w Indian and Chinese.

      Indian doesn’t bat for the west. Given a chance, any other country would have become a full fledged ally of the west (like Pakistan) already, considering the amount of goodies/good relations exist in b/w America and India. But here we still are debating.

      India knows it cant take China alone, and had Chinese allowed India its own sphere of influence (S-Asia) , India would have not given any damn about Taiwan etc. On the US front , however imperfect India is, its the only option on the ground who can stand the Chinese. Hence the alliance.

      1. The Chinese are also racist against anyone but their own. Racism is common human theme, but at least with China you will not get lectures on how to run your country or organize your society. With the West, they like preaching their religion. That religion went from Christianity to Democracy and all its goodies.

        I also think that there is a bigger threat of cultural invasion than military invasion. The Chinese culture is still quite alien to South Asia due to lack of any meaningful contact for centuries and China’s cultural development in isolation. They are not exporting it either, and any relationship with China will be strictly trade or military, as it should be. Despite Pakistan governments full tilt towards China, there is complete lack of any Chinese cultural export on the ground. You don’t get the same deal with the US or Europe, where they feel like they will want to interfere.

        1. You say as if the west imposed its values on Pakistan and somehow Pakistan suffered. Even though Pakistanis have portrayed this picture, its not really true. US worked with whatever administration Pakistan threw at them, including dictators (some would argue they worked better) . Pakistan fought no wars which they had no interest in (Korea, Vietnam) , even when they were bonafide ally of US under various treaties and duty bound to fight. And fought wars which they had interest in (Kashmir, Afghanistan) using US’s military equipment. So on both front , democracy and resources, Pakistan did whatever it wanted. If your concern is few meaningless lectures which nobody really adheres to (pretty sure Pakistan never did) , then have to grow a thicker skin.

          On the other cultural aspect, Western culture permeated through India, even when it was an ally of Soviets. So contrary to US/West exporting their culture, its just the strength of their culture, that even their enemies mimic them.

          1. US and West in general, likes working with Pakistani dictatorships and the military because of historical inertia. The Pakistani military, (like the Indian military) was formed by the British, and since it has an oversized role in the country, they will do the West’s bidding as long as the West gives them the toys to play with. However on the other hand, the West will use the same excuses about democracy and human rights to put sanctions or use that as a leverage to further their own geopolitical interests. The relationship has no meaningful impact on the common person on the street and has failed to improve their lives which is why most commoners in Pakistan are anti-west.

            China on the other hand had been a Pakistani ally since the early days, does not flip flop, puts no sanctions, does not meddle in internal politics or fund dictatorships, and does not use economic or military trade as leverage. They also don’t export their culture and are not interested in creating a sinophile upper class in Pakistan that is subservient to them.

            The only risk with China is that they wanted to export their excess productive capacity in the form of CPEC (and OBOR in general), and Pakistan could still be on the hook to pay them back if the said investments do not provide adequate return. If you didn’t trust China, you would say this is a ploy for resource extraction. But look at it this way: the west has used this tool for decades, just they sold weapons and jets (depreciating assets) instead of roads, rail and power plants (could be hit or miss).

            Western cultural propaganda will permeate everywhere people speak or understand English. This is their tool, and they use it well and India being one of the largest English speaking countries will adopt Western culture, not because its strong but because the elite in India (and to an extent Pakistan) has set English as the gold standard.

          2. Language is a part of it but I think modern mainland Chinese culture just lacks the appeal of western culture.

            Based on my experiences in Taiwan, mainland Chinese mainland culture is simply not held in high esteem despite them being fully Mandarin speaking and having access to all of mainland China media.

            Even pro-China people harken back to historical culture, “blood is stronger than water” type arguments, and / or economics rather than current culture or government as it is viewed as uncouth.

            Japanese on the other hand are resented for colonial rule but people hold their culture in high regard. Same with the West.

            Meanwhile Taiwanese pop culture (music for eg.) is disproportionately popular in mainland China.

            I think possibly authoritarian places just suck at cultural output. Or possibly it has to do with economics and mainland China is still too poor. I am not sure.

          3. @sumit
            If i had to guess, its about wealth. Mainland hasn’t been rich for long enough to have an attractive culture. I doubt there’s anything inherently repelling about chinese civilization per se. The rise of Kpop is a good example, in that South Korean is the only notable non-european country of significant size to become developed and wealthy since ww2. Like clockwork, the world loves their culture. No one in the US knew what Dubai even was until the late 90s at best, and now ppl drop the name like its Miami. Singapore gets crazy rich asians.

    2. Racists gonna racist. I don’t think this really impacts the situation that much. It’s just geopolitics.

    1. The

      “XYZ group is not a monolith. These sub groups are different and have their own unique identities.”

      argument is really easy to make from intuitive perspective. Few things are identical or nearly such in this world. So it’s quite easy to keep dividing things for political gain. Regardless, people will invent mythologies to justify perceived differences no matter what. And it’s pretty darn easy to do

    2. If this doesn’t workout, they can do a semi LARP as “we wuz Chechens” and harp on steppe connection. The Arab and Turkish one is more loose. But at least a Caucaus one can perhaps be kind of grounded in a little bit of reality?

      I notice in diaspora that Khabib is a huge hero to Pak kids. It makes sense. He comes from a hyper conservative background and took on a loud mouthed White guy who used religiously insensitive remarks to promote a fight.

  26. Is closing of ranks of the Western world behind Ukraine proof that white people asabiyya still exists? Or is it something else?

    Russia being the bad guy #1 has a lot of sway in this situation. Since Russia is the enemy , there are extreme incentives to ratchet up support to the maximum level.

    Is there a racial element? Hard to say. I remember there being a lot of pro-refugee mania in 2015 before things cooled down. Back then it was mostly Syrians and other brown moslems.

    Whites are probably the least ethnocentric people on the planet. But there is no need for whites to be ethnocentric because despite overheated “white genocide” rhetoric from their far-right, the vast majority of whites lead very good lives compared to most non-whites on this planet. And even immigrants have to bend the knee and adjust to their language, norms, culture etc.

    This is often especially painful for 2nd gen immigrants who don’t quite feel like they are accepted but whose “ancestral identity” is often quite weak.

    So long as this benign situation continues – and I don’t see why it wouldn’t – then I don’t expect any uptick in white ethnocentrism.

    1. Russia being the bad guy #1 has a lot of sway in this situation. Since Russia is the enemy , there are extreme incentives to ratchet up support to the maximum level.

      Yeah, this is true. I have been wondering for several years about the aversion bordering on hatred for Russia for several years in the US now (not sure if that was true of other Western countries). The bogus theory that Russia was responsible for Trump become President aside, I think it’s a case of feeling jilted. The American elite especially (and probably other Western elites too) felt after the end of the Cold War that Russians, being visibly European, would gradually become a “normal European country” with a “normal European elite”. In other words, have a capitalistic elite that talks the same way and has the same values as the Anglo-American elite does, albeit in a different tongue. When the Russians retrenched to authoritarian nationalism and cultural conservatism (to some extent), I think that produced a blowback.

      The EU for its part I believe thinks of itself as the country club of the world, and countries on its periphery are closer to getting a membership card than those far away. So yeah, it probably isn’t about race any more but a sort of global class system we are witnessing in action here.

  27. India needs 30 yrs of 6% growth with demography being 70+% Hindu, north India, All of India less susceptible to evangelists. This should be the mission, anti islam culture wars is BS. Get their votes, one needs to value own autonomy above everything else. First win the game, make some peace deal with them, bury the hatchet. The world is about to get crazy, most Important thing for India is to avoid stagnation economically, technologically and avoid subversion.

    Muslim inertia will hurt them in about 80-150 yrs. Let them get what comes to them. Our action and vulnerability is now. We need to plug holes now and develop as quickly as possible.


    If it comes to sanctions, India should vote against russia if it has to. One has to develop first above all things, economy/ tech now come from west. especially on ai/chips issues. for next 30 yrs atleast, we should be with west. bridge all faultlines with muslims. Priority should be growth/ deny demographic success to missionaries/ deny liberals success in culture. Our fate will be decided in 30=50 yrs , now.

  28. Muslim inertia will hurt them in about 80-150 yrs. Let them get what comes to them. Our action and vulnerability is now. We need to plug holes now and develop as quickly as possible.


    If it comes to sanctions, India should vote against russia if it has to. One has to develop first above all things, economy/ tech now come from west. especially on ai/chips issues. for next 30 yrs atleast, we should be with west. bridge all faultlines with muslims. Priority should be growth/ deny demographic success to missionaries/ deny liberals success in culture. Our fate will be decided in 30=50 yrs , now.

    1. I mostly agree with your previous reply but one thing i disagree with is on Liberalism, we’re 70 yrs too late to stem the tide of liberal takeover. We should’ve made Dharmic Ethics the cornerstone of Academia, instead we choose Liberalism as the pillar of Humanities. This problem is more than 40 yrs old, Nehru is the granddaddy of all deracinated Indians we see on Twatter.

      We’re the last generation of Indians that will view the world with a non-liberal lens. India 50-70 yrs later will most likely become the next S-Korea of Asia, a very west philic but developed State.

      bridge all faultlines with muslims
      That’s being extremely idealistic, the game plan of BJP is to do the exact opposite.

      1. In life one should never give up, one should fight on regardless. One never knows how things change in 150 yrs. I suspect liberalism is in for a massive shock 150 yrs from now. Technology, prediction technology will have improved beyond stem to even social sciences enough to render many liberal sensibilities meaningless. Also with rise of china, one shall witness the success of a nation without liberalism. And there will be chinese shills as well in India. Lets not forget, we used to have soviet shills , now everyone sold out to usa. even communist kavita krishnan is attending us conferences. There will be some anti us shills in India simping for china. it will lead to some split for sure in their ranks to some degree. Only thing that matters is demography, how much of India is Hindu majority in 2075 to 2100. Everything will depend on that and discourse needs to be seeded from here on.

        Autonomy and plurality are things we need to value, we need to bridge gap with muslims. It takes a moron who fights all people while being poor at the same time.

        1. The problem is that Hindu Culture lacks an immune system to keep itself from being subsumed by foreign forces, especially ones that specialize in co-option. The only way that i can think to save Hindu Values is a “Hindu EthnoCentrism” in a similar style to Orthodox Judaism. The problem is that one Hindu’s EthnoCentrism is another Hindu’s Anti-Nationalism, that’s why we have obviously Hindu Festivals like Onam&Pongal slowly becoming “Secular” Festivals.

          Only thing that matters is demography, how much of India is Hindu majority in 2075 to 2100
          Depends on whether BJP will introduce a population control bill or not. Worst Case Scenario, Muslims ask for a separate State again and history will repeat itself.

          1. A Hindu majority which is inflated by less-Hindus is just fake majority anyways. Don’t have to wait for 2075 or whatever to find out.

          2. Saurav, its only your precious Hindi Heartland that’s under the risk of being carved up by a potential Islamic Uprising lol So, Gatekeep Hinduism to your heart’s content. Enjoy it while it lasts, who knows what the future holds…

          3. This reminded me of my mallu freind who quipped that every mallu who crosses the vindhyas starts thinking of himself as a Punjabi. 😂😂

            While Rosogolla looking bongs try to act “combative” as soon as they reach N-india.

          4. @thewarlock No, but Bihar&UP are, these states with a sizable growing Muslim population, ironically also produce the most annoying Hindutva loudmouths. At least, you don’t see BJP supporting Bongs beating their chests about how their region is like the last bastion of dharma lol I suppose what they say is true, pride cometh before the fall, 2022 Census can’t come soon enough…

          5. There are ‘BJP supporting Bongs’ ? Where does one look for them?
            Perhaps in the same place where we see ‘Dravidian Hindus’ 😛

  29. @Sumit

    Maybe cultural appeal is just a lagging indicator. Chinese culture was held in high regards throughout East Asia and Vietnam before the 19th century when China was the larget economy. Even today, high culture in Japan/South Korea is defined by cultural imports from China.

    Also America became the largest economy in the world around 1870 but American culture only surpassed Brits in world wide appeal after World War 2. China is not still not even the largest economy. And America and its cultural vassals dominate the world economy by a huge margin. So it would take decades, if at all for Chinese culture to surpass American.

  30. …….but the volcanic anger at Russia and Russians is the true black swan in my view….

    Let’s label things correctly. This is an impotent and a vain anger. Everything is weaponized now – finance, vodka, banking, electronics, football – everything except weapons.

    This is exactly the sort of adharma that the Indian civilizational state prohibited. War is only for the battlefield. The purpose of commerce is not war. Mixing these two will harm the wielder, not the receiver.

    Our resident voodoo economics professor @principia disagrees. Thinks that the world can survive without Russia supplying oil and gas. The reality of USD 200/bbl is upon us. Thats what will happen when a Saudi-sized supplier is banned from financial transactions.

    Yatha Raja, Tatha Praja…..

    1. /This is exactly the sort of adharma that the Indian civilizational state prohibited./ chanakya laughs hysterically. War is just politics by other means, or perhaps, politics is war by other means.

  31. we are not getting r t from two days.all this freedom of information appears bakwas.

        1. btwn nazis and islamists, i must choose islamists as second choice, first choice is them exhausting each other.

        2. These guys are warriors, they love fighting more than they fear dying.
          Living through a brutal war or growing up in one seems to produce people like these. This is something American or Western soldiers will never become, which is why the US always bombs and flattens the cities and its essential infrastructure before sending in any ground troops to sweep the place. Putin did not follow this strategy in Ukraine because I think the Russians still have empathy for the Ukrainians. But perhaps he will now since the Russians are facing fierce resistance.

      1. It is remarkable that Russia has managed to brought them into the fold. After seeing what Russia did to Grozny in the 90s not sure what hope Ukraine has.

        I think the losers from this war will be
        1. Ukraine
        2. Russia

        The winners will be
        1. NATO
        2. China

  32. Fascinating thread on twitter between dhume, omar and Akshay…

    Since I am NPC and don’t want to get in public debates here is my 2 cents.
    Dhume implies that India does not meet his and western standards of liberal democracy because of lack of Free Speech (FA), journalists being jailed, courts not respecting habeaus corpus (aka bail) and finally Love Jihad laws.
    I am surprised he can make at least some of these arguments with a straight face and get away with it. RW views in US and west have been censored by big tech under the guise of misinformation including the then sitting president i.e. Trump. Hunter Biden story before ’20 election was similarly censored. J6 protesters who have been charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct have been denied bail for months. Most of them have accepted plea deals to avoid bankruptcy and being handed >5 year sentences. God forbid if India would have cracked down on Jan 26 riots in a similar way, I am pretty sure the usual culprits would have treated as another black mark on India.
    The Love Jihad laws forbid “forcible” conversion of religion of spouse after marriage. This is typically ham handed response of our RW when the actual root cause is legally allowed polygamy for Muslims. If the government moves against banning polygamy, then I am pretty sure it would also be treated as a black mark. None of the western countries allow polygamy. In the US, mormons faced bigotry and there is still some residual discrimination because of past association.
    Ultimately everyone knows that US weaponizes these liberal democracy standards against both rivals as well as to keep allies and partners in line.
    A simple thought exercise would be to imagine how US treats countries/regimes who follow liberal democracy ideals to the T but disagree with US strategy and goals. I will provide some examples. Jack Straw who was british foreign secretary during Iraq war 2 was forced out of cabinet for his opposition to the war. Angela Merkel’s phone was tapped. Jacques Chirac was vilified and French Fries were renamed to Freedom Fries during Iraq War 2.

    1. I remember new democracy metrics have been created, even for america in 1940’s are considered as not democracy. Only democracy that is valid according to them is liberal democracy. Regime change wars/ demography change wars. Constant conflict by col peters in 1997 has come true. Liberal imperialism. Same with russia. In fact now that I see, here is how i join the dots.
      From 2003 onwards America calculated (they have supercomputers to calculate different scenarios. In fact one of their machines predicted charan singh to become pm of India). Not that they give absolute correct prediction. But they must have seen that with rising china, in about 50 yrs china would become what it is today, simple compound interest will tell you that. Same with India, in 50 yrs, India probably will hit 16 trillion dollar economy. Given this scenarios, they needed to remove autocratic governments because china by itself has zero role in world, but with enough chess pieces on the board, china can cause some harm. So, perhaps, this was the reason why america went about getting rid of saddam, gadafi, and have been trying regime change wars in russia, and trying to either facilitate demographic change in India or regime change in India. Bcos in about another 50 yrs, world might get a lot more complicated. I just never understood america wasting away its resoures in the naughts, libya, iraq etc and now even russia, there is a thread on twitter that points to how every tom dick and harry saw ukraine joining nato would lead to war with russia. So, why do it?. Because russia is a very important piece in geostrategic chess board and in future, china might use it, unless, they get rid off it or diminish it.?
      For some reason, I feel I have hit upon a deep truth about america. Perhaps they have been playing on the future 50 yrs geostrategic board ?. After all, that is what their strategic literature always focusses on future scenarios. Also, america is now calling the bluff on nukes, why this chutzpah? . Why does it not respect others security interests/ balance of power?. Liberal internationalism is aggressive,bold, is time running out for powr differnce us engoyed?

      1. Since you are interested in looking a bit beyond obvious, look into the following:
        1. Economics of petrodollars
        2. Energiewende

        All wars that the West cares anything about are energy wars.

        If the West truly cared for principles, NATO would have established no-fly zone over Ukraine. The Shell and BP don’t care to lose their investment and the rest doesn’t care if the gas is sold by Ukraine or Russia.

        1. the part about energy is obvious to me. horses, Slaves, coal, oil. Human History. my interest is, the effective use of liberalism by usa to deny others asabiya, keep them confused, facilitate change in demography/ change values and coopt elites, similar to british imperialism with upgrades.
          Keeping others Discombobulated persistently, otherwise, asabiyyah should ensure they untie nationally and aim for greatness.

          1. That’s giving more credit to the US than it’s worth. They don’t have control over liberalism or lack thereof in their own population. It’s not some dark strategy to divide others but the cluelessness they inflict on themselves too.

            British are different in that respect, they still keep their House of Lords around. Elites have more political control than they let on.

  33. Vladimir Putin declares war on the Straussians
    by Thierry Meyssan
    Russia is not waging war on the Ukrainian people, but on a small group of people within US power who have transformed Ukraine without knowing it, the Straussians. It was formed half a century ago and has already committed an incredible amount of crimes in Latin America and the Middle East unbeknownst to the United States. Here is their story.


  34. https://www.onmanorama.com/news/straight-talk/2022/03/05/modi–the-priest-and-varanasi–the-war-room.amp.html

    The less Hindu writes about the more Hindu areas. Some snippets.

    ‘Uttar Pradesh goes in for its 7th and last phase of polling in the assembly elections on March 7. Varanasi, where I have been camping for no particular reason besides the congenital crisis of adolescence persisting into my old age, is a prestige battle zone. And politics here is co-terminus with the Hindu religious culture. A victory here for the BJP is a victory like no other. It is proof that the Gods are in control of India’s destiny.

    And it is this feeling, that of the Age of the Hindu, that the town with all its great gods is now safe for its agarbatti-scented, aarti-lit revival, that the BJP has so successfully identified itself with. That they are the agent of that change. It’s a manic feeling. No one realizes this better than Modi. Unlike any other place he visits, Modi is at ease in the heartland of India, performing the role of the spiritual leader who would also transform the material lot of the devotees — with a little help from Shiva and Ganga.’

    1. You should be happy, Dravids that are this invested in the Politics of Hindi Heartland are useful idiots for both the Hindutva motley crew and the Global Leftist-Ummah Alliance.

  35. Is all this meant to prevent other countries from having asabiyyah?. and in order to lure elites of other societies, they need to deny conservative triumphalism in america, so that they can weaken others asabiyya while US enjoys dominance?. Is this what is happening?

    1. No personal tax is a pretty big advantage of Dubai. Until recently had no VAT either.

  36. while the world is transfixed on russia-ukraine war, a suicide bomber in pak launched himself on a one-way trip to paradise, taking 63 passengers with himself. religion of peace strikes again! if people dont come to peace, peace comes to them, with a BOOM.

  37. @saurav your less hindu more hindu is not a helpful concept, because the issue is of replication. The values get replicated enough to counter for liberalising tendencies and also grow effectively in what you call less hindu regions. The question is, how to cultivate, prosper this issue effectively. What is that mechanism. That is what one is interested in. As they do church planting, one needs to plant something too, apart from politics, bcos people have favorites when it comes to politics and people desire change after few yrs, what else is there. what are the mechanisms. thats what rest of us are getting at. Second, you dont seem to value the idea, “only the paranoid survive”

    1. On the contrary, i feel the more Hindu region has been far too paranoid, last few years. It does not know when to declare victory and is still fighting imaginary ghosts, rather than building on its win.

      Its the less-Hindu region which either basks on the glory of the political capital of more Hindu region, or has become complacent. Anyhow its their battle and their fate at stake, so not my concern.

  38. now that putin has used the nuclear threat effectively, what prevents pakistan and china and to an extent india from using the same?

  39. i would rather see it as a reaction to the establishment as shown by youngsters. it was funny to see the liberals reaction to a b j p victory.

    1. Not sure. My U-25 cousin who lives in a UP village makes me feel sometimes, that it is he who lives in US, rather than me (who lives in US)

      This time around he made fun of me of not knowing how to pay through UPI in a Pan shop. 🙁

  40. Ukraine seems to be doing quite well. It will still end badly for them with maybe a third of the country lost but they are putting up a decent fight. Even in worst case scenario (for West) the rump that remains will be a thorn to Russia like Pakistan is to India.

    Being a noob I was expecting a Dhaka or Desert Storm.

    Neo-Nazi or not, Ukrainians are fighting well.


    Russians are fighting more civil-ly than even India-Pakistan but look at the ‘balanced’ reporting LoL! Remember ‘alleged’ Pakistani involvement in 2008 and ‘urge restraint’ in 1999?


    Russian economy will tank.

    Even if they can negotiate their ways out of sanctions after victory, bankers will fuck them for decades to come.

    1. Russia has offered what seems like reasonable terms for the first time.

      1. recognition of crimea and the eastern republics
      2. non-alignmen as a constitutional amendment
      3. no military action

      I think ukraine can push back a bit with regards to some of the terms and get some sort of reparations (maybe in form of oil) but overall I think a decent deal is possible.

      The cynic in me thinks US will push Ukraine to reject any compromise type offer. Since it is not in their best interest.

      1. lviv will become like what bonn was to west germany. i think russia will certainly have control of captured nuclear plants. they will also have army encampments in the form of cantonments. will Ukraine have any coast at all?

      2. Compromise should have happened before the start of the war. Americans have successfully bogged Russians down, this will lead to a lost decade for Russian economy. America paid back Vietnam in Afghanistan, In number of casualties and the money sunk (if you include economic losses not just defense budget) America will payback Afghanistan in Ukraine.


        Moscow State University did such phenomenal work on statistical learning. Leslie Valiant got the Turing prize for PAC but all the work was done by Vapnik and Chervonenkis. Today Russians have no Google, no Boston Dynamics, no Tesla, no salesforce, nothing.

        It is striking how Russians snatch defeat from jaws of victory in industry and vice-versa on the battlefield.

    2. @bhimrao

      Being a noob I was expecting a Dhaka or Desert Storm.

      Neo-Nazi or not, Ukrainians are fighting well.

      Bangladesh is 25% of the size of Ukraine (India took 2 weeks). Iraq is 75% of Ukraine (America took a month to enter Baghdad). Its now 11 days since the start of the Russian foray. Important to benchmark!

      IMO, Russian “kotyel̈” tactics (kettle, cauldron or polygon) will deliver.

      1. “ Iraq is 75% of Ukraine (America took a month to enter Baghdad)”

        One counterpoint to this that I have heard is that Russia has lost way more tanks etc than US in Iraq

      2. Russia invaded from Belarus precisely to take Kyiv quickly and end the war. But they have clearly failed in the first onslaught, so now they seem to settle for a long drawn out invasion from the South and East. So it’s not all roses and daisies for the Russian army. The Ukrainians have fought well, armed to the teeth with Nato weapons ofcourse, meanwhile Russian morale seems low. I expect Russia to win and take Kyiv, but day by day it seems to be a Pyrrhic victory.

    1. 21 Billion! 😮

      There are cheaper mujras in town.


      Indians+West+Japan say Chinese money is bad, Pakistanis (of all kinds) insist it it good.

      Karne do bhai, bada maja aayega.

  41. @Bhimrao
    What impact would sanctions against Russia have on Tejas’s export to Malaysia. I think you had said that if Malaysia wants to avoid having a plane with a Russian engine they could buy Tejas (don’t remember exactly)

    1. Both the Chinese offerings, JF-17 and L-15 use Russian engines. But I think Chinese would have stocked a lot of engines already. Especially the RD-33s that go into JF-17 and Mig-29 so there might be a way around.

      Don’t think too much about it though it is barely $900 million dollar deal. Malaysia is a bakait country like India. Nautanki sale, want planes for palm oil, should not have israeli systems, make in Malaysia, fala-dhikana. Aur paise denge 900 million bas. Ismein dekhna 30 Saal tak corruption ka court case bhi chalega.

      India ne bhi duniya Bhar ko khub chutiya banaya aise hi aur khareede bas 36. Real chads are Qatar(100+ Rafael+Eurofighter+F15), UAE(80 Rafales), even Indonesia ordered more than India. Aur yahan chutiya IAF wale Pakistaniyon se phir pilne ke nuskhe khoj rahe hain.


      The interesting thing is the new Pakistani J10s will come with Chinese made WS10 engine! and not the Russian Al-31. This is huge, Chinese have cracked it. Hum committee banayenge, moo-chodi karenge, kisanon se lekar primary adhyapakon sabko paise lutayenge, par jahan lagana hai wahan hagg denge. Chutiye, GTRE ki maar ke rakhi hai, soch rahe hain France banayega agla Kaveri. Bhikhari.

      1. What are Qatar and Malaysia/Indonesia stocking up for?
        Doesn’t Qatar have an American base. Plus Malaysia/Indonesia are basically Chinese vassals in ASEAN, so who are they preparing against.

        1. Qatar has one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world that they have effectively turned into a cash cow, and an independent foreign policy that ruffles the neighbors. Natural resources can make a country rich, weapons help them stay rich. They were recently blockaded by Saudi and GCC. So they are wise to arm themselves to the teeth, the US base non-withstanding.

          1. I mean defending itself is one thing. Arming one-self is quite another. Pretty sure if Qatar is really invaded, at least the American base will of some use.

            Not sure what arming itself with fighter planes will serve. Its not as if its blockaded again, Qatar will send fighter planes towards GCC /Saudis. It has ok relationship with Iranians as well, so apart from a scenario where its invaded from Iraq and Jordan, i don’t know what they will use those planes for. Perhaps against ISIS 2.0 or something. I feel the same about the UAE arming itself as well. At least in their case they have a credible threat of Houthis and Iranians.

          2. Wild guess: maybe they are waiting for unrest in Saudi. MBS is not normal, plus one day alliance with the West and China will fade. If opportunity arrives and Saudi Arabia breaks up Qataris may take over bits and pieces (lots of Shias in parts of Saudia right next to Qatar). Plus buying planes is buying protection from these big boys and their media houses.

            UAE will take over Socotra just like Russia took Crimea. They have already occupied it, raised their flag, built airports, only piece left is a referendum.

          3. To put it simply, Qatar is filthy rich and can afford it.

            They want to maintain independence from Saudi Arabia, that does not want Qatar to have an independent foreign policy. The Saudis, Egyptians and Emiratis also do not like Al Jazeera airing their dirty laundry that could lead to revolution against the status quo.

            Also, don’t underestimate that war can happen anytime, especially in this region, and when it does, you don’t want to be caught unarmed especially if you got a lot to protect. Countries with a lot of natural resources are prime targets even if they are neutral, because those resources are much needed during war time. This is why Japan attacked South East Asia during WW2 or Germany wanted the Caucuses. Not only this, Qatar is a small country with the same language and culture of its neighbors, it’s very statehood can be threatened.

            Americans are not reliable allies, especially when they also have bases in Saudi and UAE. That Qatar base is only there to threaten Iran.

          4. TBF Qatar is so small that if any neighboring country really wants to invade it then i doubt the best planes of the planet can really defend it. Rather having stronger ground forces or Navy could help.

            I think most of it just for show, and humor the Americans so that when they are really invaded, they come to their rescue.

          5. Qatar has built a sizeable navy for it’s size. 4*3300 ton corvettes, 1 helicopter carrier, all bought from Italy for ~$5 Billion.

            <5 years ago they had just small patrol boats.

            They recently also bought THAAD for $6.5 Billion. (LoL @ 5.5 Billion S-400 India got, nautanki saale.)

            They also bought 24 Apache. (LoL @ 22 India bought.)

            8 C-17s ( again LoL @ just the 11 India got)

            They have top of the line equipment for land army too. They already have German Leopard tanks. Now they are buying super-pricey Korean designed Turkish made tanks.

            If other things were equal, Qatar can hold out against Saudis and can beat UAE if the bout was one-on-one.

            Armed to the teeth.

        2. Bhai Qatar is legend. They bought 2-3 dozen each of British, French, and American planes that all do the same thing.


          Indonesia I have no clue. Maybe they are arming to deter China? idk. They have khichdi airforces like India’s and have Russian, American, French, British, planes all-in-one soup.

          Malaysia too has too many types of planes, some are too old to continue. Their situation is like our own MiG-27/21s.


          I can bet substantial money that Indigo can do IAF’s cargo airplane job better than the IAF. Sarkaari karmchaaris including procurement related faujis with their decade long plans and confusion are not fit for this world.

          1. As said before, its not nuclear weapons, but India’s babudom which keeps the peace in the subcontinent. 🙂

  42. NATO Set Precedents for Russia’s Attack on Ukraine

    Indeed, the Western track record demonstrates that the concept of a U.S.-led, rules-based international order is little more than a self-serving fiction. The United States and its allies have abided by those “rules” only when it has been in their interest to do it. Whenever it served their purposes to ignore or even flagrantly violate those rules, they never hesitated to do so. The brutal truth is that the Western powers set multiple precedents for Russia’s current binge of aggression.

  43. What do folks here make of MBS?

    Seems he’s trying to change too many things. At some point, there might be backlash. Wonder what’ll happen if he’s suddenly deposed.

    1. I saw a pic of MBS wearing a suit, which felt odd considering i have seen Arab leaders only in their traditional dress.

      He looked like a stock broker from NYC.

    1. Shiv Sena of yore is different than the avatar of today. They perhaps ‘canceling’ Indians today, who cancel Pakistanis.

    2. interesting that razib is sort of pleading for an understanding of the bangladesh’s support to russia. he also says that bangladeshis remember russian aid and advisors during their liberation from pakistan.
      i am not sure if bangladeshis remember that india was also a factor in their liberation !!!, however pakistan never forgets this!!!

      1. Well if (West) Bengalis dont remember India’s role, then its bit much to expect Bangladeshis to remember India’s role

  44. AAP in Punjab. It’s time for Sintashtas(Brahmins, Khatris) to pack up their bags and run for their life. Full scale insurgency about to begin in 3 2 1……….

      1. Don’t go by every stray statement.

        I would wager a bet that (if push comes to shove) he would be willing to lose Punjab tomorrow to keep Delhi. Delhi is important for AAP to keep the façade of ‘development’ (its an auto-pilot state), while governing Punjab (being a Hindu) will be a headache, which he will come to know soon enough.

    1. Maybe… but looks like AAP in PB is managed by Raghav Chadha guy who I believe is a PB UC. If anything AAP seems to be vacuuming up the non-woke urban congress vote. It will be good for India if AAP manages to grow up to be a responsible 2nd pole.
      BJP beyond Modi needs to improve their 2 way communication channel.

      1. AAP victory is mostly cope for liberal media.

        Chadha is a kid who wont know what hit him. All these Delhi wala Hindu Khatris have a romantic view of idyllic Punjabis chilling. Bit like what NRIs have with India. Soon enough, when the sacrilege issue crops up, theses jokers will be send back to Delhi.

        1. i) kejriwal is still speaking too much on punjab, he should shut up and let mann speak.
          ii) akali jats loosing power for 10 years is not a good sign. shekhar gupta was alluding to the same. gurudwara based politics will become more strident with akalis supporting it.
          iii) having ambedkar photos every where might boom rang on a a p.
          iv) there will be a demend for anti conversion bill. a a p had committed to this in their campaign.

    1. My skills have gotten so strong that nowadays i just read the surname of the author, and know exactly what the article will be about

  45. In UP, INC and BSP vote share seems to have collapsed with SP getting bulk (12%) and BJP (4%) getting the rest. Does this mean bulk of dalits went with SP? or vote shares are getting confounded by overall lower turnout?

    1. BJP gets the majority of non Jatavs dalits , which makes it difficult for Jatavs (BSP voters) to vote for it. SP also got the residual OBC and muslim vote which BSP got last time. Hence their inflated numbers.

      1. As per this Twitter thread https://mobile.twitter.com/Saiarav/status/1502189606854598658 looks like Yadavs voted ~80% for SP’s M candidates. Was this the case in past elections? There were lot of bjp videos about how return to SP rule meant Hindu women were not safe. Even one of the panelists mentioned this in India today election courage night. How does that work on the ground level. Do Ms take care not to target Y women?

          1. Even yoya and his ndtv friends acknowledged that women’s safety improved under yogi while downplaying the minority angle. What am I missing?

  46. the following are some of the gems i picked up.
    i) shashan, ration, bhashan
    ii) hate, hindutva, highways, handout.
    iii) new m+y combination ( modi+yogi)

  47. https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/dil-mein-aata-hun-why-some-can-t-fathom-yogi-adityanath-s-win-101646917971327.html?utm_source=twitter

    ‘Every election result day reminds us of an unsaid truth about Indian politics and media. A large part of the English-speaking media, who have their jobs because they have the ability to speak English rather than any tangible skill, don’t have a clue about India at all.

    For a part of the commentariat, bred on a steady diet of outlets whose appeal for donations are longer than the actual length of articles, Instagram stories, or the New York taxi drivers’ epiphanies, every election result is a shock to the system, like Plato’s Man who has just left his cave. Of course, it’s a different matter that for the aforementioned outlets, everything is a loss for Modi or BJP, and given a chance, they’d craft an op-ed on how the earth spinning on its own axis is bad news for BJP.’

    1. “the ability to speak English rather than any tangible skill”



      After Yogi win, overheard a Bengali lady and Andhra guy from joking about ‘gau-mutra’ in UP water-supply 😂. A UP girl was going on a tangent on how ‘educated’ people like herself would never get power in India 😂.

      The urge to win a point, to say ‘Booyah! owned you’ is so strong. Like an American high school debating team.


  48. i) if one watches satya hindi and other similar channels, we see huge army of mishras, pandeys, sharmas, tripathis etc who are mightly unhappy with yogi, bjp etc.
    ii) i also saw on some twitter threads where in dalits are called communal for voting bjp and aap!!!.

    1. On (1) i told u last week don’t go by YouTube news. Satya hindi might find even a Thakur related to Yogi who would be unhappy with BJP.

      On (2) we UP wallahs are used to it. Mostly cope by liberals. I see ‘break up UP , to govern it better’ arguments gaining steam in near future.

  49. seriously, how can employment situation in states like u p, bihar, m p, rajastan be improved?
    even karnataka is bangalore centric, maharastra is bombay-pune, nothing much in andhra.
    even if the hindi states go away from craze for arts, unless some one puts money for industrialisation, things are bleak.

    1. North KA has some auto ancillary units + cement plants as well. The auto ancillary units are probably looking at the end of runway considering the impending electric transition. But in most districts of KA, sugar factories, real estate + sand mining are the main drivers of economy.
      Regarding overall jobs situation, we need to target wider world markets. For e.g. software/it generates decent quality and quantity of jobs because indian software/it consultancies have acquired markets throughout the world. In contrast, auto industry tata/mahindra were/are content with local + african markets. Compare that to japan and soko.
      There is a new semiconductor manufacturing policy push but I don’t expect that to generate lot of direct jobs. Apparels and organic food seem promising prospects.

    1. Kashmiri Hindus fleeing their ancestral homelands without any mass riots.
      Sindhi Hindus fleeing their ancestral homelands in 47 without any mass riots.

      Yet Indian Muslims, whether in UP, Bengal or Bihar mostly stayed put and are still staying put despite any threat of mass violence.

      This poses an interesting question: are Hindus really that rooted to their ancestral lands?

      1. False equivalence. Closer comparison is partition. People are fleeing true violence and genocide. One can argue some degree of religious persecution in the areas you mentioned (eg. cow lynchings) but there isn’t anything close to genocidal behavior seen in partition Punjab/Bengal and 1971. The threat of mass rape and killings amounting to near total annihilation inflicted on Kashmiri Hindus by the Muslim majority is what was at stake. Nothing close to that can be seen in the current gangetic plain.

        In the same way, many Khalistani type Sikhs fled post 1984. A much smaller scale but clear genocidal activity by the Congress party occurred at that time. Many of these people are among the proudest Punjabis, their supremacist religious/ethnic attitudes non withstanding.

        Hindus are very much connected to their lands. It is just that in recent history, Muslim S Asians have been more prone to using extreme levels of violent force, amounting to true fear of minority eradication. The goal of evicting Hindu minorities, akin to say what you see the Buddhist majority doing to the Rohingya in Myanmar, has been a theme. This was seen first in the 1971 disproportionate targeting of Hindus and once again in 1990s Kashmir.

        Live in a region that is 90:10 ratio for you, where loud speakers in communities are killing for the rape of all women and killing of all men in your community. Survival is all that mattes. An immense ethnic cleansing was pending. This does not compare to the relatively much much smaller scale communal incidents in the gangetic plains. Even the Gujarat 2002 riots, were a fraction of the scale of what was seen in Kashmir.

        Radical Islam is more likely to taken on a “convert” or be exterminated or at best exiled attitude. Actually, that is what has caused many of the reactionary Hindu forces in growing power today. Modi is very much a moderate compared to those.

  50. And I expect you to point to absolute death numbers. Yeah that isn’t really a fair look at things. The potential for something nastier was far greater in Kashmir. The setup for a full scale mass extermination was already in play. No one just gets up and leaves everything they know. This has nothing to do with “toughness.” It is about pragmatism. Muslims staying put and not fleeing like the Rohingya have in Myanmar should actually clue you in that they are not under threat. Their population is rising faster than that of Hindus. They have their own entire legal code and run their areas largely as they see fit. A “Hijab ban” is a point of contention. Not the fundamental right to exist like it was in Kashmir at that time.

    The Muhajadeen had tones of direct support from the local populace. Killing and raping gangs were already organized. The goal wasn’t temporary violence to “teach a lesson.” It was a final solution. Remove all Hindus from the valley at all costs. And it was rewarded by upholding the “autonomy” of the region. Genocide was rewarded.

    371 was the reversal of that. It called for the full integration of Kashmir and healing of those wounds. It was the first bold step to truly attempting to unite the nation. Yes, temporary draconian measures were in place. But a more integrated valley will be the long term outcome. And the Indian state apparatus is more inclined than ever to root our terrorism and islamic extremism. Slowly, religious tolerance, diversity, and productivity will return to the valley. Pak’s export and encouragement of local extremism will slow it down. But I am an optimist.

    1. You are trying hard to justify the different patterns of migration between Hindus and Muslims. One can make the exact same excuses for the opposite side.

      Muslim population still increases in India in places like UP, Bihar, Bengal, Gujrat. Even in Kashmir which is under direct occupation with half a million armed Indian soldiers, Muslim Kashmiris don’t seem to be leaving to go anywhere else. The only ancestral places Muslims left enmasse where there was actual genocide, (i.e. 1947 East Punjab, Jammu and Delhi).

      Contrast this to the Hindu population, look at Sindh in 47, where Hindus fled from the cities/towns even when they were the majority or had the plurality, and hardly any violence took place. Look at Kashmir – Hindus fled at the slightest hint of insurgency even when they held high positions in the state and had half a million soldiers there stationed to protect them (they even refuse to relocate back even when it was peaceful (2000-2014). Don’t conflate it disingenuously with *actual* genocide (Rohingyas). Look at Bangladesh post 1971, where Hindu population has been static and declining as a percentage of the total ever since, losing out to flow towards India. I would say look at East Punjab during Khalistan movement, many Hindus moved out of their homes and fled the province.

      So these trends are hard to miss, Hindus are not that attached to their ancestral lands as many of you guys claim to be.

      1. Just one small correction , when Kashmiri Hindus fled in 89-90, India did not have million troops stationed there. It was only in late 1990 that AFSPA was enacted on Kashmir, and only after that Indian troops moved there in large numbers. By that time most of KPs had already left.

        Plus migration is a function of who can and wants to move. Most of Punjabi, Sindhi, Kashmiri Hindus were not from peasant castes and were well to do. They aren’t that different from Mohjairs in that sense. So folks who can move, did move. The ones who couldn’t (like poor Muslims or S-Indian Muslims) move during partition didn’t move.

        1. I would say there is a misconception about the Mohajirs, spread by Mohajirs themselves no doubt in order to create a victim narrative in Pakistan. Fact is, most Mohajirs that now reside in Pakistan did not flee India..The ones in Punjab, J&K, and Delhi were fleeing for their lives. Everyone else? Not so much. Most migrated seeking greener pastures as many were bureaucrats and sought opportunities to grow in the newly found state. Many went back and forth between 1947-1965 when borders were not that strict. My Grandfather migrated to Pakistan, but he went back and forth and my father was born in India. Most of their extended families are still in India and they speak to them even now. This is quite common in Muhajir families even to this day, most of their extended families still live in India.
          So they would be unlike the Khatris or the Brahmin Pandits of Kashmir where everyone left.

          1. I agree the Mohajirs slow migration mimics more Bengali Hindu migration from BD, than partition. Plus Punjab, J&K, and Delhi Muslims fled more towards W-Punjab then to Karachi. Having taken all that into account, enough Mohajirs migrated to Karachi to make it Mohajir majority just after partition. So its a mix of all type of migration. Economic, violence related etc.

            Even Sindhi Hindus did migrate throughout the 50s and 60s to Maharashtra and Gujarat, and still have family in Pakistan.

      2. “So these trends are hard to miss, Hindus are not that attached to their ancestral lands as many of you guys claim to be”

        This is utter rubbish and grossly insensitive to the plight of those who were forced to flee ethnic cleansing, but can’t expect anything better from Pakistani jihadi apologists. People flee thair lands only as an absolute last resort, and it’s easy to posture about their ‘bravery’ or lack of it when one doesn’t have to face this in their own lives.

        1. Ethnic cleansing happened in West Punjab and East Pakistan. You did not see me refer to those examples because that was infact ethnic cleansing of Hindus by Muslims. I mentioned other examples where there were people preemptively left without any mass scale inter-religious riots.

          Regardless, if you feel offended, my apologies.. I was just replying to a comment on Kashmiri Pandit issue being politicized by Indian nats.

    2. kashmiri pundits will have to buy land and start making settlements in kashmir valley just like jews did in palestine before israel was established. otherwise there is no use of reversal of 370, 35a etc.

  51. dozens of mauryas in u p politics. are they all great great…grand sons of ashoka? or is it a later day fashion of dalit assertion?

  52. Amazing how just one movie has rattled the left this hard

    They’ve released countless shows/movies of their own with all sorts of stories/events (incl. ones on Kashmir) that fit their views, and yet now blue tick after blue tick is leaving no stone unturned to bring this one movie down

  53. yogendra yadav now says non bjp forces should reclaim hindu culture, epics, languages etc. congress will certainly try. does this not add up to rss position?
    a a p, t m c is already in this process.
    this will be interesting.

    1. No one from less Hindu areas can ‘reclaim’ Hindu culture. Yes they might succeed in their regional space (like TMC in Bengal) but not nation wide.

      To reclaim Hindu culture, one has to politically capture more-Hindu areas.

  54. There’s a large Afghan population in Lajpat Nagar in Delhi.
    Went for lunch to a restaurant there on Sunday.

    Afghan phenotypes are quite interesting. If you pick two guys at random, one will look totally Indian. Sometimes even mildly high AASI types. The other guy will look white. It’s bizarre. You can only tell that the both are Afghan when they start speaking.

    1. Inb4 “one is not real Pashtun…” commentary. That is the classic response. But people on the ground are well aware of the phenotypic ranges. Crowd pics also don’t lie.

  55. A lot of Yusufzai Pasthuns can pass off as locals in India. However north India has lot of people claiming to be ”pathans” that are not Pasthuns. They may even have Pasthun ancestry but mixed with locals. Or they may just be Hindko claiming to be Pathans (like Shah Rukh Khan). The real question is: whether those Afghans will pass off as UC Indian or OBC Indian.

    In Karachi, it is quite common to see Pasthuns with blond hair green eyes, it’s also quite common to see Pasthuns who can pass off as locals. But in general, they stand out as a group in a city where it’s sometimes hard to tell the difference between Sindhi/Muhajir/Punjabi based on phenotypes alone.

    1. Differences between upper caste and OBC look in N India is exaggerated online.

      Kunal Nayyer is probably a typical upper caste N Indian look. And he can pass very easily as an OBC.

    2. I have met ‘Pathans’ in India, who themselves accept that they aren’t really Pathans (one was even Punjabi Muslim) , but mostly high caste Muslims or hailing from Uzbek or Iran etc. But since its far too difficult for them to convince people in India about their caste hierarchy, they just call themselves Pathans since that’s the only foreign Muslim group Indian people have met or heard about in large numbers.

  56. Been watching ‘Mirzapur” on prime one thing I noticed is the gangs are very multi-religious (Hindus and Muslims) working together, different castes as well (though of course there are various affinities and networks)

    Struck me as a big contrast to American gangs which tend to be quite segregated racially or ethnically.

    1. when phenotypic differences are less obvious (or frankly just minor to begin with because of the massive degrees of overlap between groups), it certainly plays a role in bridging barriers. these people are all pretty much the same race with minor ethnic variations on a cline. There is also a big similarity and language and culture, despite religious/caste differences.

      the opposite S Asian extreme of this is Canada, where largely Jatt Sikh Punjabi and Sri Lankan Tamil Hindu gangs are essentially mutually exclusive.

  57. saw some ‘interviews’ of tikait, who turnsout to be a jolly good joker. was bjp/ modi fooled by this jat? they could have not succumbed to this gang and still could have won the elections. missed opportunity.

    1. There is no reason to expend political capital on issues, when the supposed beneficiary itself does not want it. Like CAA.

      So the BJP ditched farm laws like a hot potato. Its a party of Baniyas and not farmers, why should it care anyway. Time to consolidate core Hindu areas, since 2024 is closer than one thinks.

  58. Why is it always some Madraasi or Bengali always? Why?

    Maybe I do get it, Indians don’t have much to boast anyways so they rely on chutiyapa like caste and culture to say they are better than others for no good reason or achievement. Every Indian group tries to prove they are not ordinary Indians. These Madraasi-Bengalis in the US are especially noxious, mediocre people with 5 generations of experience in licking sarkaari (British or Brown) ass. Selling themselves out to make up for not having any interesting idea to contribute, 🤮.


    India also abstained from the U.N. vote condemning Russia. Modi has the same ethno-nationalist justification for claiming Kashmir as Putin does for Ukraine, which is why he’s a Pooty Pal

    -XYZ Rangappa

    1. And why reduce everything? Do they use floppy disks in their brain so everything has to be expressed in so few basis vectors?
      Modi = Trump + Brown
      Kashmir = Ukraine + Brown
      BJP = Nazi + Brown
      Chicago = LA + Cold
      B = (A+C)/2 = (2*Z)/26

      Pointlessly comparing things, finding shitty correlations and passing them off as wisdom or insight.

      1. Like I have said.

        Radical leftist and radical islamoapologism, outside of climate change, are the greatest threats to peace and prosperity in our time. The prior has infected the minds of the aforementioned via generations of propaganda, made even worse by the current leftist indoctrination, only worsening, in the US school system.

    2. ‘Why is it always some Madraasi or Bengali always? Why?

      Maybe I do get it, ‘

      U get it Bhim, u just dont say it. 😉

      ‘These Madraasi-Bengalis in the US are especially noxious, mediocre people with 5 generations of experience in licking sarkaari (British or Brown) ass.’

      TBF , their forefathers were at the forefront of doing the same during the Brits colonization of India. So they have learnt from the best.

    3. “Every Indian group tries to prove they are not ordinary Indians.”

      In India its a compliment to say to somebody
      “You don’t look Indian.”

      Massive inferiority complex in Hindus because of centuries of humiliation from Central Asian and European invaders. Decades of low growth, socialism only exacerbated this after Independence.

      Things are getting better with liberalization I think. Next generation of Hindus won’t be so cringe hopefully.

      UP and Bihar, the heartland of India need to grow fast economically in order to shut up Bengalis and Tamilians. I worry how that’s going to happen though. We need access to ports and Bengal is in the holds of a violent extremist political culture which will not allow capitalism to flourish.

    4. Why is it always some Madraasi or Bengali always? Why?

      Inferiority complex from being colonized by Europeans first?

  59. This thread just got spicy lol Maybe the Hindi States should start exporting Salt, they appear to have infinite reserves of Salt Mines. The most ironic aspect of Hindutva is that it adds jet fuel to the inferiority complex of cowbelt, they were more content with life under UPA.

    Post Modi, they’re always trying to prove something to someone. Trying to prove to Muslims that they’re not the same feeble subjects from the Mughal Empire. Trying to prove to S-Indians that they’re not Bimaru. Trying to prove to the world that they’re one of the big boys.

  60. with mann’s earlier clean shaven photos and videos flooding, how will the strict orthodox sikhs and religious leaders accept this?
    or can he become ‘born again’ sikh after sporting a beard. looks like most youngsters are beard trimmers, and elders don’t care or can’t do much.

    1. I think the orthodoxy might have a bigger issue with his drinking problem than his older clean shaven looks, if they have a problem at all.

  61. https://theprint.in/politics/from-masterjis-son-to-stand-up-star-pegwant-how-dropout-bhagwant-mann-became-punjab-cm/874921/

    the below quote is from the referenced article:

    Because of these incidents, Mann, who lost his father to alcoholism, earned a cruel nickname: Pegwant Mann.

    In 2018, Kejriwal publicly announced that Mann had sworn to give up alcohol, but his ‘alcoholism’ was also a target of rival parties during this election.

    When asked about the alleged alcohol abuse, Mann’s friends said that the issue had been blown out of proportion.

    “Who doesn’t drink in Punjab?” Dhindsa asked.

    “He’s not doing anything illegal. If he drinks, he buys from a theka (liquor shop) and drinks, what’s wrong with that?” Dhillon chimed in.

    1. Happy holi!

      Interested to know what Razib and Omar sahab think of Holi, any experiences Razib?

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