So what’s wrong with being kaala?

In the comments below there’s a lot of discussion on colorism among brown subcontinentals as well as a fixation on particular facial features. Since I’m an American coconut I don’t really understand many of the nuances, though I’m curious from an anthropological perspective. Much of it obviously seems ludicrous for American browns. What’s the point in commenting on whether one sibling is lighter-skinned than another when you live in America and most of the population is far whiter than even “light-skinned” Indians could aspire to? (ironically, or not, the ‘black-fishing’ swarthy Kardashians look like a lot of light-skinned Indian celebrities to Americans)

But about half of the readership of this weblog now readers from India. Cultural values differ, and so does offense. For example, for Americans asking how much money you make is a very offensive question. For people in other societies, it is not. Why is it so offensive to Americans? Because money is really all we care about! The trigger tells you something deep about our values.

Recently I’ve been meeting many more Indians (from India) on Clubhouse, and I’ve been trying to interrogate differences in values. And one thing that I’ve encountered is a strong aversion to being called “kaala.” Even the most well-off and Westernized Indians seem to wince at the term, and will privately tell me to stop using it the way I am (addressed to people). I ask what the problem is, and they won’t want to get explicit, sometimes saying the connotation is negative. That’s obvious literally true, but how are you going to ever change the connotation unless you change practice?

This is obviously a form of cultural imperialism. Though blackness is not always positively connoted in the US, as a term it doesn’t have the same strongly negative valence as it does in Asia. During the summers I get very kaala in my exposed body parts because I don’t avoid the sun. When my mother asks how I’m doing I say I’m fine, but also I tell her next time she’ll see me I’m “kalo” (Bengali). She gets mad but is used to me talking in this way because being kalo is not really bad substantively (it isn’t). Americans care about whether you are fat or not. Though I don’t condome being mean to fat people, being fat is associated with lots of health ill-effects, and just the way you move is often unnatural (those of us who gain and lose weight can attest to the biomechanical variation). In contrast, being dark or light doesn’t matter too much now since most people don’t need to work outside.

Even in India (and Pakistan and Bangladesh) there will come to be a time when the generation of aunties who grew up in the 20th century will pass on. At that point, the generations who grew up when kaala was a term of opprobrium used by older generations should perhaps rethink their conditioning. I’m not judging, but it’s not really “natural,” it’s conditioning.

Indus Valley on Tides of History

Patrick Wyman interviewing a specialist on the IVC. Pretty interesting, though I’m mildly skeptical of the idea of what seems like a pre-state primitive democracy being the political system in the IVC.

How Indians view themselves vs. how Westerners view Indians


As A South Asian Woman, Seeing Two Darker-Skinned Women On Bridgerton Means Everything.

The headline is obviously a bit much. The casting of dark-skinned actresses of Indian-origin really isn’t going to change the norms of the Indian subcontinent, or the whole of Asia. But it’s an interesting window on aesthetic standards and cultural creation. Indians who I bring up this issue with routinely suggest “well, you don’t have ugly people in American films.” The implication for many people of subcontinental origin is that dark skin is ipso facto ugly (and in Asia more generally). This seems the ground truth and the rest is just commentary.

Open Thread – 4/1/2022 – Brown Pundits

In the last week of this month I will be posting a podcast I did with Francis Young, author of Pagans in the Early Modern Baltic: Sixteenth-Century Ethnographic Accounts of Baltic Paganism (at my Substack). Over the hour and a half we talked about many topics, but one thing that struck me listening to him describe the details of the beliefs and practices of Lithuanian pagans, practices that persisted as living traditions centuries after the official Christian conversion of the state in ~1400 AD (Young estimates that in the 1500’s 30-40% of the population were what was then termed “Old Lithuanians,” baptized into Christianity but rural people who were almost totally uncatechized and continued to practice their ancestral religion), is how redolent they are of the Vedic religion. Young has convinced me that it is likely that the original Baltic branch of Indo-Europeans flourished somewhat to the south of their current distribution, which may be an outlier relic. If that is correct, they were likely positioned just to the west of the Indo-Iranian ur-heimat of the Fatyanovo-Balonov culture. Linguistically many scholars argue that Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic are a natural ‘clade’ within Indo-European languages.

The Wikipedia entry on Lithuanian neo-paganism (Romuva) has a section titled “Relation with Hinduism”:

…But for Lithuania’s Romuva community, which traces its traditions back to ancient folklore, it is evidence of a connection to India, Hinduism and Sanskrit that has become a part of their Romuva identity, along with its pantheon of gods and fairly standard pagan rituals. Some believe that the connection between Hinduism and Romuva made Romuva to be more than a “primitive, shamanic religious tradition”…

Similarly Ašvieniai are divine twins in the Lithuanian mythology, counterparts of Vedic Ashvins. The Ašvieniai are represented as pulling a carriage of Saulė (the Sun) through the sky. Ašvieniai, depicted as žirgeliai or little horses, are common motifs on Lithuanian rooftops…

Romuva and Hindu groups have come together on numerous occasions to share prayers and participate in dialogue. These events have taken place in Lithuania, Atlantic City, New Jersey, Boston, Massachusetts, Epping, New Hampshire, and elsewhere.

Hindu priest presiding over Lithuanian Romuva ceremony

I had assumed that Lithuanian Catholicism derived its strength from the Counter-Reformation period (the last sacred snake groves were destroyed by priests in the 18th-century), but Young explained that the reality is that Catholicism and the Lithuanian national identity became associated only with the absorption of Lithuania into the Russian Empire, where the dominant religion was Eastern Orthodoxy. It was in the context of religious and ethnic marginalization in the 19th century that the two elements of modern Lithuanian identity finally began to become synergistic, and therefore heterodox peasants began to finally adhere more strictly to a Catholic identity.

Gujurati genetics

I was working on a project and decided to check Gujus. A few things

1) A few years ago a Bohra emailed me kind of irritatingly saying I underestimated the non-South Asian ancestry in Bohras. I double-checked and that seems plausible. Looking at this Bohra Patel sample I have, that seems to be clear.

2) Guju Brahmins are positioned like North Indian Brahmins.

3) Most of you know more about Lohannas than I do. I will say that the Sindhi Lohanna sample I have is even more “north-shifted” than the Guju Lohanna.

4) Patels are a numerous cluster, obviously. The two Vania samples I have are north-shifted, but very close to the Patels (Patidars)

5) I have a Solanki sample that is clearly outside of the Patel cluster and south-shifted

Episode 7: South of India from 200 BC to 500 AD

Another Browncast is up. You can listen on LibsynAppleSpotify, and Stitcher (and a variety of other platforms). Probably the easiest way to keep up the podcast since we don’t have a regular schedule is to subscribe to one of the links above!

The History podcast crosses the Vindhyas and heads towards the Deccan.  Maneesh is in conversation with Jay and Shrikanth on all things South of India between the period 200 BC to 500 AD.

Among other things, the speakers talk at length about the Sangam literature.

Mani Ratnam’s Iruvar makes an appearance too.

 

@jayvtweets   @shrikanth_krish    @maneesht

Sources and References:

1. A History of South India by K. A. Nilakanta Sastri
2. The age of imperial unity (The history and culture of the Indian people Vol 2)
3. Comprehensive History of India Vol.2, The Mauryas and the Satavahanas, Edited by K. A. Nilakanta Sastra
4. The First Spring: The Golden Age of India (Part -1) by Abraham Eraly
5. A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India: From the Stone Age to the 12th Century by Upinder Singh
6. Coromandel: A Personal History of South India by Charles Allen
7. Ashoka in Ancient India by Nayanjot Lahiri
8. The Sangam Age by V.R. Ramachandra Dikshitar (ARTICLE)
9. The Beginnings of Civilization in South India by Clarence Maloney (ARTICLE)
10. Archaeology of the Sangam Age by K. V. Raman (ARTICLE)
11. Urbanization in South India: The Role of Ideology and Polity by R. Champakalakshmi (ARTICLE)
12. The Vedic-Puranic-Sastric element in Tamil Sangam Society and culture (A Study of Purananuru-First Section) by M. G. S. Narayanan (ARTICLE)13. Chera, Chola, Pandya: Using Archaeological Evidence to Identify the Tamil Kingdoms of Early Historic South India by Shinu A. Abraham (ARTICLE)14. Kalinga and Andhra: the process of secondary state formation in early India by Sudharshan Seneviratne (ARTICLE)

15. The Wonder that was India – AL Basham

16. Tamil – A Biography : David Shulman

17. Early Tamil Epigraphy : Iravatham Mahadevan
19. Sangam translations in English : https://sangamtranslationsbyvaidehi.com/

 

The southwestern groups in the Indian subcontinent are enriched for “Middle Eastern” ancestry

Genetic affinities and adaptation of the South West coast populations of India:

Evolutionary event has not only transformed the genetic structure of human populations but also associated with social and cultural transformation. South Asian populations were formed as a result of such evolutionary events of migration and admixture of genetically and culturally distinct groups. Most of the genetic studies pointed to large-scale admixture event between Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI) groups, also additional layers of recent admixture. In the present study we have analyzed 213 individuals inhabited in South West coast India with traditional warriors and feudal lord status and historically associated with recent migrations events and possible admixture with Indo-Scythians, Saka, Huns and Kushans, whose genetic links are still missing. Analysis of autosomal SNP markers suggests that these groups possibly derived their ancestry from some groups of North West India having additional Middle Eastern genetic component and also their separation history suggests very early separation from North West Indian and Gangetic plain Indo-Europeans during late bronze or Iron age, most probably following central India and Godavari basin to South West coast. Higher distribution of west Eurasian mitochondrial haplogroups also points to admixture through maternal lineage. Selection screen using genome wide genealogy approach revealed genetic signatures related to their long-term coastal food habits. Thus, our study suggests that the South West coastal groups with traditional warriors and feudal lords’ status are of a distinct lineage compared to Dravidian and Gangetic plain Indo-Europeans and are remnants of very early migrations from North West India following Godavari basin to Karnataka and Kerala.

If you do a west-to-east transect there is more “ANI” ancestry in the west of the subcontinent. This is true in the north, obviously (Punjabis to Bengalis), but less appreciated is that the same seems true in the peninsula south of the Vindhya Range. To some extend this is due to more steppe ancestry in groups like Nairs because of “gene flow” from Namboothiri Brahmins and such. But, that’s not all. As noted in this paper some of these western coastal groups clearly have an excess of “Middle Eastern” ancestry. That’s not surprising for the Jews of Cochin or even the Nasrani Christians. But what about Bunts and Nairs? There are two main ways you can explain this in my opinion:

1) A pre-steppe IVC and post-IVC era migration of “Iranian” peoples associated with the Ashmound culture has a significant impact that is most preserved in the western part of the peninsula

2) Later connections between West Asian (Arab and pre-Arab) people who were integrated into the local cultures over time (due to the matrilineal nature, at least originally, of some of these southwestern groups one can imagine how easy it would be to integrate sailors from other societies, or at least their offspring)

Open Thread – Brown Pundits – 3/18/2022

A comment on the earlier open thread:

Interested to know what Razib and Omar sahab think of Holi, any experiences Razib?

I don’t have any experience and did not know it was Holi. Thanks for telling me!

I was going to visit India for business in 2020, but then COVID-19 happened, so I have never been to India. I have only been to Bangladesh twice in the last 40 years, so it did not overlap with Holi.

Episode 6: North India from 200 BC to 200 AD

Another Browncast is up. You can listen on LibsynAppleSpotify, and Stitcher (and a variety of other platforms). Probably the easiest way to keep up the podcast since we don’t have a regular schedule is to subscribe to one of the links above!

The History of the Indian sub-continent continues.  Shrikanth and Maneesh are joined by Jay Vardhan Singh to talk about all things North of the Vindhyas in the period 200 BC to 200 AD. Tales of Bactrians in modern day central India, descendants of King Ashoka and of a king whose name ended up on an unfortunate Aircraft. Kalyan, a suburb of Mumbai, makes an appearance too.

@shrikanth_krish   @jayvtweets  @maneesht

References and Source Material:

GENERAL BOOKS
1. Between the Empires: Society in India 300 BCE to 400 CE by Patrick Olivelle (Editor)
2. The age of imperial unity (The history and culture of the Indian people Vol 2)
3. Comprehensive History of India Vol.2, The Mauryas and the Satavahanas, Edited by K. A. Nilakanta Sastra
4. Political History of Ancient India, from the Accession of Parikshit to the Extinction of the Gupta Dynasty by Hem Chandra Raychaudhuri

LATER MAURYANS
1. Aśoka and the decline of the Mauryas by Romila Thapar

INDO-GREEKS
1. The Indo-Greeks by A. K. Narain
2. The Greek Experience of India: From Alexander to the Indo-Greeks by Richard Stoneman
3. The Greeks in India by George Woodcock
4. The Yavana Invader of the Gangetic Basin by Kailash Chandra Ojha (ARTICLE)

SHAKAS, PARTHIANS AND KUSHANAS
1. History of Civilization of Central Asia, Vol – II
2. The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia by René Grousset, Naomi Walford
3. The Dynastic Arts of the Kushans by John M. Rosenfield
4. ReOrienting the Sasanians: East Iran in Late Antiquity by Khodadad Rezakhani
5. The Age of the Parthians Edited By The Idea of Iran Volume II Vesta Sarkhosh Curtis and Sarah Stewart
6. The Khyber Pass: A History of Empire and Invasion by Paddy Docherty
7. Empires of Ancient Eurasia: The First Silk Roads Era, 100 BCE – 250 CE by Craig Benjamin
8. Mathurā: The Cultural Heritage
9. India under the Kushanas by B.N. Puri
10. From the Kushans to the Western Turks by Khodadad Rezakhani (ARTICLE)

SATAVAHANAS AND WESTERN KSHATRAPS
1. Formative Phase of the Western Deccan Satavahanas and Kshaharatas by Ajay Mitra Shastri (ARTICLE)
2. Satavahana Chronology: A Re-examination by M. K. Dhavalikar (ARTICLE)

KHARAVELA
1. Epigraphica Indica Vol. XX
2. The Mahameghavahana dynasty by Shri Amar Chand (ARTICLE)
3. Bahasatimita of the Hathigumpha inscription by N.K Sahu (ARTICLE)

The article of Vidya Dahejia
http://vidyadehejia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Dehejia-Collective-Popular-Patronage.pdf

Reference of Indian Steel exported to Rome
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.234409/page/n155/mode/2up?view=theater

“Age of Imperial Unity”  – Volume 2 in the series on “History and Culture of the Indian People”. Jai has covered it in his list
Age of the Kushanas – A Numismatic study (Bhaskar Chatopadhyay)
A blogpost on Spitzer manuscript that we discussed in the call –
Geography – by Strabo
Book of Later Han
Yuga Purana – John E Mitchiner
Malavikagnimitram – Kalidasa
Manusmriti with commentary of Medathiti – Ganganatha Jha
The Questions of King Milinda
Inscriptions –
Hathigumpha inscription of Kharavela : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathigumpha_inscription
Yavanarajya inscription of Mathura : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavanarajya_inscription
Kanishka’s Rabatak inscription : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabatak_inscription
Heliodorus inscription on Garuda Pillar : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar

https://www.youtube.com/JayVardhanSingh

 

Brown Pundits