Iranic if by Land, Indic if by Sea – Explorations in R1a

Source: www.WorldHistoryMaps.com from “Talessman’s Atlas of World History”.

YFull has amassed an extensive database of modern and ancient Y-DNA samples and computed time estimates for the formation of various branches. This post will outline some important observations from looking at the page for R1a-Z93, which arose in the steppe and became the dominant Y haplogroup in Fatyanovo culture and its descendant Abashevo and then the Sintashta culture, from which steppe ancestry in India and Iran ultimately originates.

Indic Lineages

Examining lineages with samples found almost exclusively in South Asia is instructive, especially when we look at formation dates of the lineages.

Dates

Consider the famous R1a-L657. The estimated formation date and TMRCA for it is ~2100 BCE.

That could of course be a fluke defined by some sort of later founding effects. But we can consider the other major subclade of R1a-Z93, namely R1a-Z2124. This is sometimes assumed to be an Iranic clade, but it contains Indic sub-branches as well, such as R-YP523 with a formation time of ~2100 BCE and TMRCA of ~1700 BCE, and R-Y46 and R-Y43743 both with formation time and TMRCA of ~1800 BCE. A little messier but also likely originally Indic is R-Y37 with a formation time of ~2500 BCE and a TMRCA time of ~2000 BCE.

Based on these, we can estimate that the main steppe migrants into India branched off from the rest of the steppe ~2100-1800 BCE. A plausible scenario is that at the same time that many Sintashta clans were spreading out and establishing the cultures of the Andronovo horizon as well as related cultures like Tazabagyab, one or more clans chose to travel past them into the Hindu Kush and the Indian subcontinent, contributing the bulk of steppe ancestry seen in modern day Indians. This is backed up by the fact that the Indian lineages seem to split off close to the time of expansion of R1a-Z93 into star like phylogeny, which is a tell-tale sign of rapid population expansion and migration of the kind observed archeologically in the Andronovo horizon.

Indic Samples in Arabia

What’s interesting is when we take a look at sublineages of these that have ended up in the Arabian peninsula, where modern Arabs have apparently been enthusiastic adopters of genetic testing services. There are some lineages from recent centuries (especially related to Pakistani lineages), but also many that go back significantly further.

These include one with formation time ~1800 BCE and TMRCA ~450 CE, another with formation time ~900 BCE and TMRCA ~1050 CE, one with formation time ~1100 BCE and TMRCA ~1450 CE, and one with formation time ~200 BCE and TMRCA 1450 CE.

Likely all of these (or at the very least the first two) entered the Arabian peninsula via medieval, early historic, and protohistoric Indian Ocean traders. These samples are found across Arabia, including in Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and western Saudi Arabia. In fact, we can see that there is some AASI admixture (using Irula as a proxy) in some modern populations in the Arabian peninsula.

Iranic Lineages

Russians

Unfortunately, very few samples from Iran are available, and they do not allow us to make meaningful conclusions. Fortunately, we have many samples available in Russia that are surviving descendants of Sintashta / Andronovo lineages, both in Z2124 and R1a-Y3 (from which L657 descends on the Indian side).

Both R-Y75187 and R-S23592 exhibit a mix of old (dating as far back as Andronovo) and modern samples in the Central Steppe in Turkic-speaking places like Bashkorstan, Tatarstan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan. Another that shows modern samples in Russia (as well as an Azeri Iranian sample) is R-Y38987.

It should be noted that these R1a lineages are cannot be from any outflux from India – both their ancient and modern samples remain in the steppe, and no samples in these lineages are found in India. Additionally, the lineages were not spread by Buddhism, as the various Kipchak Turks such as Bashkirs and Tatars that settled this region of Russia practice Tengrism (or previously practiced Tengrism for those that have since adopted Islam), and never practiced Buddhism, unlike Turks and Mongols further to their east who adopted Buddhism.

Iranic Lineages in Arabs

What about Iranian influence in and near the Arabian peninsula? Well, R-BY149647 has both an Andronovo and modern Russian steppe sample as well as descendants in Arab countries. R-F1417 shows a lineage in Russia, another lineage in Arabs, as well as a sample in an Iranic tribe in ancient Kyrgyzstan.

Notably though, nearly all these samples are located in Kuwait or Ash Sharqiyah Province of Saudi Arabia. These likely originate with Iranian settlement and rule of modern day Kuwait under the Persian Empires. As such, though we don’t have many direct samples from Iran, neighboring Kuwait provides a useful source of data for Iranian lineages. Iran was not historically known as a major participant in the Indian Ocean trade, and this distribution of Iranic lineages appears to reflect that.

Conclusion

In summary, we’ve found that Indian R1a lineages from the steppe date to the early 2nd millennium BCE, consistent with a migration into India simultaneous with the Andronovo horizon. We’ve also found that we can observe surviving Iranic lineages in the Central Steppe in Russia, and that Iranian lineages to Kuwait and Ash Sharqiyah by land, while Indian lineages appear in the entire Arabian peninsula via ancient and medieval sea trade.

The 100th Brownpundits Browncast


The 100th Browncast! Razib and Mukunda talk to Pushpita Prasad and Sudha Jagannathan of the Coalition of the Hindus of North America to talk about where we stand on the “caste question” in the US today. There are lots of different opinions here between the four guests, and platform of Dalits and Bahujan.

Also submitted for your approval, (1) Who is behind the caste legislations in North America? A peek into their track record – YouTube. The UCSD Ethnic Studies link about hiring only Dalits and Muslims: Commentaries (ucsd.edu)

Obituary: Brigadier Malik Mohammed Aslam, 1938-2023

Brigadier Malik Mohammed Aslam was born in August 1938 in the village of Choi in the Salt Range (Northern Punjab). He passed away after a long and eventful life on June 30 2023. I wanted to write a few words for a couple of different reasons: one, he was my father’s closest friend and one of the most extraordinary human beings I have ever met; but second (and perhaps more important for the historical record) he played an important role in the defense of Lahore in 1965 and yet this role is not recorded anywhere. I wanted to correct that oversight.

Brigadier Aslam attended Military school Sarai Alamgir and passed out from PMA with the 17th long course with the Norman Medal and other honors. He was commissioned in the artillery and was serving in Lahore in 1965 as a young captain. In August 1965 Pakistan had sent armed raiders into Kashmir (operation Gibraltar) to spark an uprising there. That operation failed miserably and instead the Indian army captured Haji Pir pass and threatened Neelam valley and Muzaffarabad, so the Pakistan army invaded Chamb (operation Grand Slam) to relieve pressure and perhaps get a breakthrough from that direction. While all this was going on in Kashmir, the high command in Pakistan remained confident that India will not expand the war to any other theater (this moronic confidence came about because Bhutto and friends had sold the Gibraltar idea to Ayub (who was a bit of a coward) with the assurance that India will never dare to extend the war to the “regular border” and it will remain confined to Kashmir). Indian PM Shastri was thought to be a weakling and Indian performance in Rann of Katch had been unimpressive, so the army high command bought this dumb idea. But on the night of 5-6th September the Indian army launched an attack on Lahore and the Pakistani army was caught off guard. The local GOC had started moving some troops forward, but most of the troops were still in Lahore cantonment when the Indians attacked. Captain Aslam, commanding a field battery, was woken up by the sound of gunfire. He tried to call his superiors to find out what was going on but nobody in corps HQ in Lahore had any orders for him and he was told to wait till they got in touch with superior officers. On his own initiative and without wasting any further time, Captain Aslam opened fire with all guns and was the first and only artillery battery to do so. This fact can be confirmed with other participants in that night’s events. He kept firing for the next 17 days and two of his barrels melted in the process. Several small and large decisions that night helped to save Lahore, but this was definitely one of them. (though to be fair if the Indian army had been better led, they could have taken Lahore that morning; that they failed is also due to the incompetence and cowardice of their commanding officer, general Niranjan Prasad (whom Harbaksh Singh wanted court martialed for cowardice). Continue reading Obituary: Brigadier Malik Mohammed Aslam, 1938-2023

Ertugrul is badass


I watched a few episodes of Ertugrul and it’s pretty good. I would prefer less of a Marvel-comics style character…Ertugrul and his alps basically are just killing machines who never get injured while taking down dozens of Christian knights. But it is good for what it intends to be, a dramatic rendering of the origins of the Ottoman mythology.

What’s the Indian equivalent? I assume a Shijavi TV series, but is there something with good production values?

Vivek Ramaswamy and Hinduism

Vivek Ramaswamy Leans Into His Hindu Faith to Court Christian Voters:

Swami Vivekananda, who represented Hinduism at the Parliament of the World’s Religions in Chicago in 1893, took pains to depict his faith as monotheistic, in contrast to the stereotypes of its followers as “heathen” polytheists. Although the faith has many deities, they are generally subordinate to one ultimate “reality.” Many Hindus and scholars say its theology is too complex to be described as either wholly monotheistic or wholly polytheistic.

“The polytheism hurdle is the first thing that has to be addressed” for many American Christian audiences, Mr. Altman said. He sees Mr. Ramaswamy’s pitch against “wokeism” as a way to counter stereotypes associating Hinduism with hippies, yoga and vegetarianism.

Book Review: Grand Delusion; the Rise and Fall of American Ambition in the Middle East

From Dr Hamid Hussain

Book Review

Steven Simon.  Grand Delusion: The Rise and Fall of American Ambition in the Middle East (New York: Penguin Press), 2023.

“Grand Delusion” by Steven Simon provides a timely analysis of the dynamics that shaped American foreign policy in the post-Cold War era in the Middle East.

The major theme of “Grand Delusion” revolves around the notion that American policymakers suffered from a persistent delusion that military force alone can bring about sustainable change and security in the complex web of Middle Eastern conflicts.

In the last five decades, American involvement in the region revolved around many areas considered vital for American national security interests.  In the early phase, containment of Soviet Union was major area of concern.  The U.S. sought to prevent the spread of communism and Soviet influence in the region, leading to increased military and economic aid to countries perceived as strategically important allies, such as Turkey and Iran. Continue reading Book Review: Grand Delusion; the Rise and Fall of American Ambition in the Middle East

Podcast: A “Frank” conversation about modern Indian politics

Another Browncast is up. You can listen on LibsynAppleSpotify, and Stitcher (and a variety of other platforms). Probably the easiest way to keep up the podcast since we don’t have a regular schedule is to subscribe to one of the links above!

In this episode Akshar and I talk to “Frank”, an Indian financial professional with an interest in Indian history and politics. We discuss everything from Nehruvian India to Modinomics, Hindutva and whether a boom is coming…

Frank tweets on twitter as @frankisalegend1 

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