What’s going on? Some Twitter controversy around Aurangzeb.
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Aditya
3 years ago
This is ultimately what woke leftists do elsewhere – talk about dead people from 300 years ago, blame them for today’s state of affairs, and then claim flying chariots/decolonisation/indigenous magic/antiracism will move them into the future.
This is fascism when brown people overseas fixate on identarianism and communalism – but progressive when magic ethnic people and white performers do it in the Atlantic world.
Pandit Brown
3 years ago
Don’t think Frum knows much of Indian history, or much about Aurangzeb for that matter. That Mughal emperor has been a byword for bigotry and tyranny since his lifetime, and Modi has nothing to do with it.
On the flipside, I saw lots of idiots on Twitter calling Frum a liberal or a leftist. Basically there’s a disconnect between Indian political chatter and American political chatter, neither side knowing much about the other, present or past. These dolts don’t seem to know that Frum was like George W. Bush’s consiglieri and has been a member of the American right forever (albeit of the neocon kind.)
David Frum has been a regular attacker of Modi ever since he clued in onto the bonhomie between Trump and Modi. Again a case of misplaced ire, as Trump had unseated the Bush Dynasty in the most humiliating manner. He has been doing this (potshots at Modi) since a looooong time. Frum was already stupid because Modi was being purely transactional with the leader of another country. Even with the exit of Trump, Frum continued his silliness.
Now this tweet resonated with a wider audience…..because of all the topical heat from Ram Navami and Jahangirpuri (wtf is this North Indian stockholm syndrome for Mughal nomenclature). Where the Indian liberals have seemingly scored one over the Hindutva Machine (a JCB) by getting the SC to intervene. All manner of liberals are now strutting on the ramp and preening their feathers over this victory. Into this heated setting, wandered in Frum with his regular but silly tweet. The other member of the Aurangzeb Harem also jumped in with her views.
Boris Johnson has been doing all the right things – like posing in a JCB bulldozer at Ahmedabad to curry favour with Modi……just genius!! I do hope he also tweets something against Aurangzeb.
Modi has done the unthinkable….he has now constructed an authentic Durbar where Europeans and Americans now routinely outdo each other in currying (or falling out of) favour.
HJ
3 years ago
But David Frum is ok when leftists attack American/Western historical figures from 300 years ago. Born in Canada, campaigned for Canadian far left, moved to the US, became a Republican convert to spread liberalism worldwide by bombing them into oblivion and now regularly jumps back and forth between UK, Canada and the US. Truly a rootless cosmopolitan.
Vijay
3 years ago
Frum’s a globalist liberal rather than conservative or left. He’s the kind of guy you find staffing the UN bureaucracy, World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. He sees himself as a global citizen, a real Davos man.
He was a minor player in the Bush administration, but hated Trump with the passion of a billion white hot suns. Primarily because of Trump’s nativist, antiestablishment stances and humiliating Jeb Bush.
phyecho1
3 years ago
Their Lies, propaganda are fuel . Without outright lies of left, I dont think BJP could have risen as it did. Modi / bjp/rss has used their lies as fuel . They(left) believe they have the power to brainwash people. What is happening is opposite, Indian people who earlier craved for western appreciation and such cringe shit exists even now regarding reaction videos to movies ( i am hopeful as familiarity breeds contempt eventually). Are now calling out, trushke has done us a great service. Much as Indian historians discredited themselves, western experts are discrediting themselves. I see a wonderful disdain for western experts/ media developing in this country. As Indian economy grows, this will only grow. perhaps once we get to 10 trillion dollars is probably when this disdain will be also be backed by good research /scholarship as well. Right now not too many have time for this kind of stuff. what i dont want is self inflicted injuries. And if we avoid collapse or self inflicted injuries over next 100 to 150 yrs. Our victory is assured. What I hate about Hindutva is its lack of patience and reliance on incitement for everyday politics. One does not need to shoot the enemy, one needs to just grow stronger and powerful and economically wealthy enough that our transactional power will buy us much leverage on its own. Most of the noise is a consequence of first past the poll system that leads to upping the noise and rhetoric for electoral success but a better way needs to be found. But I am hopeful , i can see truth winning. Or as sun tzu put it. victorious warriors win first and then go to war, not the other way around.
Indian twitter picks up some random gora every few weeks. Usually the random gora enjoys the attention. There was another chutiya Bruno Maçães who was fucking around before this one.
Always curious to find how are we so sure on Aurangzeb or his supposed atrocities? If Audrey Truschke’s or some other work highlights the fact that the record is mixed and difficult to see him outside the context of his time- why not argue on facts? History and historiography is now quite well defined and all ideas are extensively peer reviewed. Instead the response is to start calling her ‘Tucchi’ or ‘missionary’ or other assorted words from ‘dharmic shabdkosh’ alluding to world’s oldest profession.
On the point of him demolishing temples and there being an unbroken continuum of this since centuries, a recent guest of BP podcasts seems to be having ideas on supreme court 🙂 building
Maybe the ‘Indic renaissance ‘ give a new meaning to ideas of conservatism. Ma Durga bless everyone:)
Enigma
3 years ago
What he actually meant to say was:- “quit yer whinging, ya dindus! Toe the political line of your colonial overlords!” but since he’s a Leftist with quark sized testicles, he hides behind a passive aggressive rhetorical question.
“Why is Mudi talking about a 300 yr old Mughal?”
Because Aurangzeb is one of the exemplars of the enduring cultural&political legacy of Islamic Fascism in the subcontinent. He is still relevant because he’s like the grandfather of the Ideologies that caused the Partition&Indo-Pak Wars.
I think Frum needs to be viewed in context. There is alarm in the West that India is getting too nationalistic. Some of this concern may be justified but you get the sense that Frum and his ilk doesn’t care about India and their alarm about India is for other reasons.
I say that because he supports a hypernationalistic Israel for tribal reasons (he’s Jewish). Nationalism, even aggressively racist nationalism, is not beyond him as long as his own people are doing it.
So it’s not about principles. It’s about the fact that a secular/liberal India will be more pliable for the US than a nationalistic India.
But like so many people in the West, his takes on India are comical and likely influenced by far-left agitators such as Audrey Truschke.
in karnataka congress had no opinion on the hijab/halla/azan row. its muslim m l a s are unhappy at being restrained from talking on these issues. only siddaramiah is making some noises.
i feel if muslim m l a s desert congress for jds, congress may be in advantage of shaking off the ‘secular’ image and fight b j p on caste basis, where it appears stronger.
Raja Wang
3 years ago
The same man who was a major instigator of the Iraq War which killed half a million people and caused untold suffering in the Middle East is trying lowkey to criticise Modi’s policies towards Muslims.
This is the lack of self awareness mixed in with neocon style self-righteous that leads to the online hostility he’s getting.
I don’t condone trolling or harassment, even against warmongers like Frum. Still, a bit more perspective and humility when commenting on issues they know nothing about is something I’d like to see from America’s twitterati.
The growing number of Indians posting online is leading to more American elites to realise that the Indian liberals who write op-eds for New York Times or the Washington Post and call Modi a fascist are far removed from the views of the Average Indian.
It’s not just geopolitics and the desire for a weaker and more Westernised India, American elites have retained the white man’s burden to civilise the browns and will so whatever it takes to save a billion plus souls, whether or not it serves the US’ geopolitical interests to lecture the Indian government like a child.
This is the same government whose genius foreign policy planners pushed China and Russia together and would definitely attempt a color revolution in New Delhi if they had the capacity to do so!
Siddharth
3 years ago
Haven’t heard of the chap myself, but from what the other commenters have noted he seems like someone who’s being made politically irrelevant in his country and he’s fighting to stay relevant. Basically someone who’s comments shouldn’t be taken seriously.
The H-right does seem to think of itself as uniquely villified by the west, but passing judgement upon everyone else is one of the few things that unites the western left and right and this is nothing but a form of sizing up potential rivals and threats to power. Nothing to get too flustered about, they are best ignored or briefly responded to like FM SJ did recently.
Articles decrying China have been coming thick from the western agitprop mills for decades which no one takes seriously anymore. I remember the flurry of such articles in the run up to the Beijing olympics, but they still queue up to do business with China. And post 9/11 until the recent rise of Islamophobia as a verboten term the Arab and muslim world was widely villified, and at one time the most common villains in film and TV (of course it’s back to the bad ol Russkies now).
The only benign foreigners in the eyes of the Anglo-west are the Japs, Germans, French, Spanish, etc – former fierce rivals now reduced to exotic lapdogs.
H. M. Brough
3 years ago
I remember the old Indian Lefty view (expounded famously by A Sen, among others) is that Akbar was the “good Mughal” while Aurangzeb was the “bad Mughal.”
Weirdly, I’ve not seen any Twitter Lefties making this argument recently. In the thread, the few Lefties (it’s overwhelmingly Righties responding to Frum) are just trashing Modi and the BJP. None are actually answering his question.
Have they abandoned that talking point?
DaThang
3 years ago
Thinking strictly along the lines of left and right isn’t helpful let alone consistent.
Bhimrao
3 years ago
There are no real Indian elites. It is a made up category used by folks who can’t think originally and can only repurpose American vocabulary and ideas. The churn is too high. Former kings and ministers with net worth in a few tens to hundreds of millions of dollars get overshadowed by mere Saari/Mattress/Spice traders of their hometowns. Multi generational bureaucrat families are being humbled by sons of their chaprassy working in Silicon Valley.
@bhimrao
This is a good point. I can only speak to my personal exposure, but I’ve seen the churn of influence (on the household level) from the feudal class to the educated lawyers/journalists /bureaucrats to highly resourceful kleptocrats and now to the money power of small capitalists. The latter could be a family with a regionally scaled fruit trading business, a real estate portfolio and leverage within a religious trust. The question is, how enduring is institutional influence at all echelons of society. Think of massive educational trusts, monastic orders like the mutts in the south, and trade organisations. Are they seeing churn within?
Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics. All said, it feels like a trans regional elite is coalescing, and unlike the post-independence one, they have real assets to endow their longevity
Vey few Indian institutions say clubs to educational organizations have reached the prominence and scale required for enduring prestige. There are no Oxford or Yale in India that can endure generations of nonsense and yet sustain the name-fame of their multi-generational patrons. Ones in India who try to sail against the currents of talent and hard work are failing in-front of our own eyes. Think of all the British-Colonial/Waqf/Hindu-Mutt type organizations, lets take the example of say Doon school or Mayo school. These places were never truly special to begin with and as their patron’s have lost power their prestige will wither even further. Organic organizations with sound allocation of brain, money, and power are already replacing them.
I am not familiar with Southern Mutt affiliated organizations. Please write more about them.
Business organizations are a prime example of the churn. My father is member of a national level small industries association. I was surprised at the collaborative effort it’s members put in to get their point across, how well thought their organization, events, donations, … are, how much influence they exert on politicians (of all sides), media, and police. These are men who have risen from petty jobs, from welding shops, from small contracting, … and yet they have achieved so much.
“Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics.”
Ideology doesn’t make money. To me Girish Mathrubootham in suit >>> Sridhar Vembu in Lungi.
Law is open to interpretation in India. This makes taking hard position impossible for most businesses. Think of what Mayawati did to Sahara India, what Yogi did to the Samajwadi affiliated builders.
phyecho1
3 years ago
strategically , India has already been beaten . partition meant two parts, pakistan and bangladesh could and would always be used against us. Whether by china or west. There is no getting around nukes of pak. So, at best we can become resilient. Thats about it.
Bhimrao
3 years ago
@Ugra
Have you been following the Ola Electric scooter fires and production hell?
There is a slim but increasing chance that the lohar (Aether) might beat the Vyapari (Ola).
I am following it carefully. Ola seems to have survived the inferno. My engineering WhatsApp group is trying to figure how did Ola manage to datastream the vehicle even after it went down. At least the bike magazines are convinced that there is no equipment malfunction.
Gadkari is overeacting – typical bureaucracy influence! Such incidents will happen until the “perversity” quotient of the public is sated.
Very interesting. Inside America’s only Muslim majority city. Gives me Hyderabad Old City vibes
Ritesh
3 years ago
When i studied in Sikh school,they taught sikh history there ans we studied all that there what PM has said. It is only in school books of NCERT where marxists have spread their venom. What PM has said is correct esp when leftists writing books to justify Aurangjeb
Brown
3 years ago
sedition for trying to chant hanuman chalisa? well, uddav seems loosing it. also when did marathis start chanting hanuman chalisa, that too in hindi? a pandurang abhang would have been the order of the day?
anyway, chanting hindi hanuman chalisa is rather new in karnataka.
Prats
3 years ago
Gaurav bhau/Omar uncle – can you guys get Gaurav Sabnis on a podcast, please.
let me ask Omar bhai to reach out – ought to be fun with Razib there
Ali Choudhury
3 years ago
There is this weird fixation on casting themselves as having been historically victimised by the Hindu right. I don’t know what drives it. It’s not the trait of a successful, dominating people.
Some of it happened. Some of it is insecurity. Most of it is political expediency
Brown
3 years ago
i feel congress did well in not agreeing to let in prashant kishore. the following might be the reasons:
i) nobody wants to see/read a 600 page p p t and think to come back to power. it is good that ‘the mother and son’ gave the p p t to a committee to ‘study’.
ii) p k is more of a ‘ karyakarta’ type, talking about how to message etc.
iii) the real issue is lack of message. nobody knows what the party stands for.
principia
3 years ago
The second terrorist attack in Pakistan, directed at Chinese nationals happened today.
It’s the same group, related to Baloch. This is a CIA-backed group, just like the diaspora Uighur groups are. The Pakistani establishment will feign ignorance and horror but this is happening under their noses and full knowledge. It’s the same old tactic of pretending to not to have groups under control, that they’ve used against India. Now it’s against China.
Wait, you might ask, why China? Aren’t they allies? Pakistany is also a contested space between China and the US and the Pak establishment has chosen the US. Imran Khan had to go as part of that deal. China is next on the hit list.
As I noted earlier, China has no chance compared to the West when it comes to conferring benefits to Third World elites. Pak elites, like all Third World elites, are deeply corrupt and care more about their personal enrichment than the prosperity of their country.
Pakistan is now re-orienting itself to be America’s bitch. Their finance minister is an ex-IMF man and their central banker is an ex-IMF man. Colonialism never ended for Pak, it merely switched capitals. But their elites are willing accomplices. Anyone who opposes that gets purged. Just ask Imran Khan.
Ugra
3 years ago
Chad Jaishankar giving it to some Europeans in Delhi –
…..when rules-based order was under challenge in Asia, the advice we got from Europe is – do more trade. At least we are not giving you that advice…
If the Russians had stuck to proxy wars (like Pakistan does) rather than launch an open invasion, the Europeans might still be trading with them. Proxy wars offer plausible deniability (that the “rules-based international order” is not being threatened) unless concrete evidence of state involvement can be marshaled.
So Jayshanker’s comment is a bit disingenuous. Russia clearly is an aggressor, but our govt’s pronouncements have been on the lines of “everybody, please stop fighting and start talking”, as if “everybody” (instead of Russia solely) simultaneously started the war. This is different from Afghanistan, where the Taliban were fighting in their own country (though for sure they got help from Pakistan, but unless there is crystal clear evidence of that, it’s not the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine.) I understand the govt’s constraints and compulsions here, but there’s no need to be holier than thou about the decision we have chosen to make.
You are clearly sounding like a “proxy liberal” today.
What is a “proxy war”? Is it like the “proxy trade” that the Europeans are doing with Russians today – handing out close to 1.5 billion euros every day just for gas. And all the while pretending to sanction Russia with their domestic constituencies.
Jaishankar is downright brutal for the liberal order which used to think trade can solve real world problems. Like the joker Friedman, who used to pretend that the presence of McDonald’s could prevent wars.
I find Europeans to be 10x more annoying than any American. All the arrogance/self-righteousness of the Americans with none of the power to back it up.
Saurav
3 years ago
Have an Indian acquittance who is pissed every time, Musk is called African American. Says not everyone can be ‘African American’ just because they were born there.
His family moved from Bangladesh to India in the 80s.
Brown
3 years ago
rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.
Brown
3 years ago
rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.
As a side note, I find the Indian ministers running the show when it comes to IT to be fairly impressive. Rajeev Chandrashekar, who is in charge of these negotiations, is a pretty accomplished guy who succeeded a lot on his own and isn’t where he is because of a last name.
I know very little about chip manufacturing, but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. So why subsidise foreign companies? Wouldn’t it be better to start at a mature node and work yourself up the way the Chinese did? If subsidies should be used, then shower it on local companies.
“but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. ”
We do have lots of designers in Bangalore but fabs are a different game.
India has zero chance of running a domestic foundry that is even 30 (maybe even 40) years behind current technology within the next decade.
SCL runs a foundry for ISRO and is at 180 nanometer standard. That is of 1999 vintage. DRDO has its own facilities for military applications which is at 90 nm std (2003 vintage).
Its a bad state but not that bad. Most military equipment use India fabricated chips. Actually many of the commercial application will work fine with 180 nm standards. Example – the NAVIC Indian GPS locators are fabricated with the ISRO chips. We are about 20 years behind. But most strategic uses are now covered.
You could nitpick on my estimate and I should have put it slightly differently. GAETEC 90nm was made after we got Airborne radars from Israel, it is not the same deal as a TSMC 90nm, there are so many other things that we have to consider the obvious one being scale.
Frum is exasperating but I did realize one thing… The birthday of the ninth Sikh guru, was just a few years after the New York Times’s year zero, 1619. So it’s an interesting opportunity to put Indian and American historiography side by side.
Sikhs vs Shiv senik/Hindus in patiala.
Shiv sena had organised ‘khalistan murdabad march’ which obviously some sikhs didnt like. https://www.facebook.com/jindi.kamali/videos/1257695704637647/
Firing and khalistan jindabad infront of shiv and Kaali mandir.
Startups from Chennai seem to have a much stronger technical basis, and aim to solve harder problems.
This appears to be very different from the Bengaluru, Mumbai or Delhi startup scene. I am wondering if there is a genuine cultural basis to this difference, or just a statistical effect (other cities have more startups, so the technical ones get crowded out).
The other day I heard some S Indian diaspora late 20s guy say “Jay Sean looks Persian bro. Many people from North India look like Persians man. It is because of Mughals and them taking over India for so long.”
Another, of E Asian persuasion, responded, “Wow teaching me history. Cool stuff.”
The ignorance is glorious.
The temperature is hot hot hot and getting hotter.
What are the consequences both political and economic for this climate change in India/ did anyone analyse?. Will politicians do better by offering some respite to summer temperatures, will work time change during summers?.
I am waiting for thorium based salt molten reactors from china, a trial project was supposed to start last yr. If it succeeds, in 10 yrs. China might dominate energy sector through this. any news regarding this?
Thorium Based Molten Salt reactors don’t offer significant benefits compared to regular PHWRs unless you’re worried about having to import uranium like India. India’s three stage nuclear program would offer much of the same benefits if they could gather the money and political will to get it done. However the cost of nuclear power would still be more than solar and would be much more if you consider the upfront capital cost that is prohibitive in a country with scare capital like India.
The best long term solution to rising temperatures in South Asia would be something like a Space sunshade. This would not not only mitigate climate change but could also decrease temperatures even further to improve productivity. If Elon Musk can get starship working this might become viable.
Brown
3 years ago
never thought that aazan loudspeakers could be silenced so easily in karnataka, although, the volumes has decreased in recent days. temple/ hindu religious loudspeakers have been taken care to a great extent.
India should probably play a bit more hardball with Sri Lanka given that the corrupt clique that runs the show there are confiscating the credit line to enrich their crony capitalist friends, rather than helping the people.
India should probably play a bit more hardball with Sri Lanka given that the corrupt clique
Confirms my view that you Tamil Diaspora.
However India knows the need to balance, else SL will go full china. Maybe sell Trinco port too.. Any even now SL is getting decent hand outs from China. USD 8 billion I last heard.
====== Related
There is no doubt Beijing investment has powered a renaissance at the port since the Greek government was forced to sell it – and other public assets – in the aftermath of the economic turmoil that hit so hard in 2008.
The boom at Piraeus – including job opportunities for locals – mirrors a wider transformation in Greece’s financial fortunes. It is now one of the fastest growing EU economies.
– and recalls that China was the only investor to come forward at the time the Greek government was forced to sell the port.
Following the 2008 crash, the so-called “European troika” of the European Commission, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund were adamant the port be sold to help service Greece’s spiralling debts.
The Twitter fracas between Ajay Devgan and Kannada actor Sudeep is one among the many long term emergent challenges facing cultural consolidation of Hindutva.
Admittedly Ajay Devgan (or his Twitter team) were more concerned with a bread and butter issue – more and more South Indian movies with nativist appeal are being dubbed into Hindi and taking away screens and revenues from Bollywood productions.
Bollywood – filled with Punjabis and the Gangetic “survival secularism” ethos has never really owned or warmed up to Hindu narratives. Now it’s coming back to bite them in the rear.
Ajay Devgan smoothly converted this into a language issue while in fact it is a cultural war. Congress and JD in Karnataka have hijacked the issue to their own political ends. Really a minefield!
Hindutva (from Western India) has won only one part of the war – the political mobilisation in Gangetic India. It must also win and vanquish its cultural foes. For now, Bollywood remains the last outpost of Gangetic secularism.
@Ugra
This time Telugu cinema (RRR) has pulled off Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka better than Bollywood. Earlier Andhra didn’t have the scale, production, star power of Salmon Bhai.
The central issue is this: any movie Bollywood makes in 2022 could have been made equally well in 2012, formulaic 55 yo uncle’s naach-gaana around crystal hearts and giggling women in bikinis just don’t sell in the age of Tiktok and Instagram. That is stagnation. Look at the horrid CGI and nonexistent scripts of Bollywood.
Movies made in 2012:
Gangs of Wasseypur, Barfi, Agneepath, Dabangg 2, Jab tak hai jaan, Talaash.
The movies in 2022 are not better made than these movies.
###
This was not true in 2002-2012 when the production-quality/themes objectively improved.
Amazon (Prime) is throwing bad money after bad money on Indian content. Not sure how many of its shows will stick. Considering that shows have faced the same issues as Netflix India. It has now faced up to the facts, and relented itself to become an Government of India media wing.
RRR is beyond “Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka” – there are elements in it that posit the Brahmin/Kshatriya – Tribal interactions in a Puranic light. I don’t think Bollywood has ever dared to adapt any of the Itihaasas/Puranas to modernity and refocus the freedom struggle in their light.
There is extreme swing in Bollywood – from a point in time when only “poor/suffering” stories sold to now “conspicuous consumption”.
It’s either socialism or faux modernity – no middle ground. All the breakway directors/production houses of Bollywood that delivered good lines/stories in 2012 have been co-opted into the lunatic asylum in 2022.
The last great crossover from Bollywood into South India (remakes/plotlines) was Vidhu Vinod Chopra (Munna MBBS, 3 Idiots) for their universality. Otherwise it’s just a one way street in terms of remakes and dubbings from South Indian movies into Bollywood. This is the reason for a clear sense of siege among Bollywood actors.
How can one not be amazed that there is almost no big-ticket Bollywood movie about RJB (either the courtroom drama or ground actions) and other Hindu consolidation? All of these empty spaces are getting exploited by SI Cinema.
Folks made similar predictions after Bahubali. SI cinema has all of the same vices as Bollywood sometimes to a far greater degree : misogyny, hero-worship, nepotism, naach-gaana, …
It will take a long winning streak to dethrone Bollywood. Chiknesh Shroff/Kapoor can keep their cities, Hindi speaking towns and villages are ripe for the taking.
I am cheering any decent Madraasi actor over Gutkh-ajai Devgan.
You are tremendously mistaken in putting them on the same shelf.
SI Cinema has produced Chief Ministers from its ranks. It has proven itself in cultural exports and ideological oeuvres.
If I see what’s happening across North India, there is a vacuum between political demands of the burgeoning middle classes and the cultural output. Forget supplying, Bollywood doesn’t even know how and where to start.
Netflix, TV, streaming can only compete for pulp and cheesecake. Only the big screen can satisfy mass demands.
What’s going on? Some Twitter controversy around Aurangzeb.
This is ultimately what woke leftists do elsewhere – talk about dead people from 300 years ago, blame them for today’s state of affairs, and then claim flying chariots/decolonisation/indigenous magic/antiracism will move them into the future.
This is fascism when brown people overseas fixate on identarianism and communalism – but progressive when magic ethnic people and white performers do it in the Atlantic world.
Don’t think Frum knows much of Indian history, or much about Aurangzeb for that matter. That Mughal emperor has been a byword for bigotry and tyranny since his lifetime, and Modi has nothing to do with it.
On the flipside, I saw lots of idiots on Twitter calling Frum a liberal or a leftist. Basically there’s a disconnect between Indian political chatter and American political chatter, neither side knowing much about the other, present or past. These dolts don’t seem to know that Frum was like George W. Bush’s consiglieri and has been a member of the American right forever (albeit of the neocon kind.)
The problem here isn’t that Frum is a “leftist” (he isn’t, obviously) it’s that he shares many Americans’ disinterest in history.
“The problem with Europeans is they think 200 miles is a long distance, the problem with Americans is they think 200 years is a long time.”
David Frum really is a moron.
Indian political thought in a nutshell…
If you are a left centrist in India you rail against 200 years of colonialism.
If you are right centrist you rail against 800 years of colonialism.
If you are far left you rail against 3000 years of colonialism.
If you are far right you claim that 3000 years ago Indians colonized Europe and are proud of it.
This is genius – both hilarious and accurate
This is amazing.
Indian political thought in a nutshell…
🙂 best comment of the year!
This is how the parallel universes met……..
David Frum has been a regular attacker of Modi ever since he clued in onto the bonhomie between Trump and Modi. Again a case of misplaced ire, as Trump had unseated the Bush Dynasty in the most humiliating manner. He has been doing this (potshots at Modi) since a looooong time. Frum was already stupid because Modi was being purely transactional with the leader of another country. Even with the exit of Trump, Frum continued his silliness.
Now this tweet resonated with a wider audience…..because of all the topical heat from Ram Navami and Jahangirpuri (wtf is this North Indian stockholm syndrome for Mughal nomenclature). Where the Indian liberals have seemingly scored one over the Hindutva Machine (a JCB) by getting the SC to intervene. All manner of liberals are now strutting on the ramp and preening their feathers over this victory. Into this heated setting, wandered in Frum with his regular but silly tweet. The other member of the Aurangzeb Harem also jumped in with her views.
Boris Johnson has been doing all the right things – like posing in a JCB bulldozer at Ahmedabad to curry favour with Modi……just genius!! I do hope he also tweets something against Aurangzeb.
Modi has done the unthinkable….he has now constructed an authentic Durbar where Europeans and Americans now routinely outdo each other in currying (or falling out of) favour.
But David Frum is ok when leftists attack American/Western historical figures from 300 years ago. Born in Canada, campaigned for Canadian far left, moved to the US, became a Republican convert to spread liberalism worldwide by bombing them into oblivion and now regularly jumps back and forth between UK, Canada and the US. Truly a rootless cosmopolitan.
Frum’s a globalist liberal rather than conservative or left. He’s the kind of guy you find staffing the UN bureaucracy, World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. He sees himself as a global citizen, a real Davos man.
He was a minor player in the Bush administration, but hated Trump with the passion of a billion white hot suns. Primarily because of Trump’s nativist, antiestablishment stances and humiliating Jeb Bush.
Their Lies, propaganda are fuel . Without outright lies of left, I dont think BJP could have risen as it did. Modi / bjp/rss has used their lies as fuel . They(left) believe they have the power to brainwash people. What is happening is opposite, Indian people who earlier craved for western appreciation and such cringe shit exists even now regarding reaction videos to movies ( i am hopeful as familiarity breeds contempt eventually). Are now calling out, trushke has done us a great service. Much as Indian historians discredited themselves, western experts are discrediting themselves. I see a wonderful disdain for western experts/ media developing in this country. As Indian economy grows, this will only grow. perhaps once we get to 10 trillion dollars is probably when this disdain will be also be backed by good research /scholarship as well. Right now not too many have time for this kind of stuff. what i dont want is self inflicted injuries. And if we avoid collapse or self inflicted injuries over next 100 to 150 yrs. Our victory is assured. What I hate about Hindutva is its lack of patience and reliance on incitement for everyday politics. One does not need to shoot the enemy, one needs to just grow stronger and powerful and economically wealthy enough that our transactional power will buy us much leverage on its own. Most of the noise is a consequence of first past the poll system that leads to upping the noise and rhetoric for electoral success but a better way needs to be found. But I am hopeful , i can see truth winning. Or as sun tzu put it. victorious warriors win first and then go to war, not the other way around.
David Frum, who?
Indian twitter picks up some random gora every few weeks. Usually the random gora enjoys the attention. There was another chutiya Bruno Maçães who was fucking around before this one.
David Frum, who?”
some chu*** jew whom razib just made famous.
Always curious to find how are we so sure on Aurangzeb or his supposed atrocities? If Audrey Truschke’s or some other work highlights the fact that the record is mixed and difficult to see him outside the context of his time- why not argue on facts? History and historiography is now quite well defined and all ideas are extensively peer reviewed. Instead the response is to start calling her ‘Tucchi’ or ‘missionary’ or other assorted words from ‘dharmic shabdkosh’ alluding to world’s oldest profession.
On the point of him demolishing temples and there being an unbroken continuum of this since centuries, a recent guest of BP podcasts seems to be having ideas on supreme court 🙂 building
https://mobile.twitter.com/dyeus_pater/status/1516660114089938951
Maybe the ‘Indic renaissance ‘ give a new meaning to ideas of conservatism. Ma Durga bless everyone:)
What he actually meant to say was:-
“quit yer whinging, ya dindus! Toe the political line of your colonial overlords!” but since he’s a Leftist with quark sized testicles, he hides behind a passive aggressive rhetorical question.
“Why is Mudi talking about a 300 yr old Mughal?”
Because Aurangzeb is one of the exemplars of the enduring cultural&political legacy of Islamic Fascism in the subcontinent. He is still relevant because he’s like the grandfather of the Ideologies that caused the Partition&Indo-Pak Wars.
https://twitter.com/militerdoktrin1/status/1516309929795239937
https://twitter.com/SiginmaciGundem/status/1514591975118356482
https://twitter.com/srkntnyldz/status/1517365552519520257
Bhaichara coming to an end?
I think Frum needs to be viewed in context. There is alarm in the West that India is getting too nationalistic. Some of this concern may be justified but you get the sense that Frum and his ilk doesn’t care about India and their alarm about India is for other reasons.
I say that because he supports a hypernationalistic Israel for tribal reasons (he’s Jewish). Nationalism, even aggressively racist nationalism, is not beyond him as long as his own people are doing it.
So it’s not about principles. It’s about the fact that a secular/liberal India will be more pliable for the US than a nationalistic India.
But like so many people in the West, his takes on India are comical and likely influenced by far-left agitators such as Audrey Truschke.
shekar gupta’s lament in print:
https://theprint.in/national-interest/secular-islamophobia-how-modis-bjp-bulldozed-rivals-imagination-left-them-scared-to-speak-for-muslims/927242/
in karnataka congress had no opinion on the hijab/halla/azan row. its muslim m l a s are unhappy at being restrained from talking on these issues. only siddaramiah is making some noises.
i feel if muslim m l a s desert congress for jds, congress may be in advantage of shaking off the ‘secular’ image and fight b j p on caste basis, where it appears stronger.
The same man who was a major instigator of the Iraq War which killed half a million people and caused untold suffering in the Middle East is trying lowkey to criticise Modi’s policies towards Muslims.
This is the lack of self awareness mixed in with neocon style self-righteous that leads to the online hostility he’s getting.
I don’t condone trolling or harassment, even against warmongers like Frum. Still, a bit more perspective and humility when commenting on issues they know nothing about is something I’d like to see from America’s twitterati.
The growing number of Indians posting online is leading to more American elites to realise that the Indian liberals who write op-eds for New York Times or the Washington Post and call Modi a fascist are far removed from the views of the Average Indian.
It’s not just geopolitics and the desire for a weaker and more Westernised India, American elites have retained the white man’s burden to civilise the browns and will so whatever it takes to save a billion plus souls, whether or not it serves the US’ geopolitical interests to lecture the Indian government like a child.
This is the same government whose genius foreign policy planners pushed China and Russia together and would definitely attempt a color revolution in New Delhi if they had the capacity to do so!
Haven’t heard of the chap myself, but from what the other commenters have noted he seems like someone who’s being made politically irrelevant in his country and he’s fighting to stay relevant. Basically someone who’s comments shouldn’t be taken seriously.
The H-right does seem to think of itself as uniquely villified by the west, but passing judgement upon everyone else is one of the few things that unites the western left and right and this is nothing but a form of sizing up potential rivals and threats to power. Nothing to get too flustered about, they are best ignored or briefly responded to like FM SJ did recently.
Articles decrying China have been coming thick from the western agitprop mills for decades which no one takes seriously anymore. I remember the flurry of such articles in the run up to the Beijing olympics, but they still queue up to do business with China. And post 9/11 until the recent rise of Islamophobia as a verboten term the Arab and muslim world was widely villified, and at one time the most common villains in film and TV (of course it’s back to the bad ol Russkies now).
The only benign foreigners in the eyes of the Anglo-west are the Japs, Germans, French, Spanish, etc – former fierce rivals now reduced to exotic lapdogs.
I remember the old Indian Lefty view (expounded famously by A Sen, among others) is that Akbar was the “good Mughal” while Aurangzeb was the “bad Mughal.”
Weirdly, I’ve not seen any Twitter Lefties making this argument recently. In the thread, the few Lefties (it’s overwhelmingly Righties responding to Frum) are just trashing Modi and the BJP. None are actually answering his question.
Have they abandoned that talking point?
Thinking strictly along the lines of left and right isn’t helpful let alone consistent.
There are no real Indian elites. It is a made up category used by folks who can’t think originally and can only repurpose American vocabulary and ideas. The churn is too high. Former kings and ministers with net worth in a few tens to hundreds of millions of dollars get overshadowed by mere Saari/Mattress/Spice traders of their hometowns. Multi generational bureaucrat families are being humbled by sons of their chaprassy working in Silicon Valley.
@bhimrao
This is a good point. I can only speak to my personal exposure, but I’ve seen the churn of influence (on the household level) from the feudal class to the educated lawyers/journalists /bureaucrats to highly resourceful kleptocrats and now to the money power of small capitalists. The latter could be a family with a regionally scaled fruit trading business, a real estate portfolio and leverage within a religious trust. The question is, how enduring is institutional influence at all echelons of society. Think of massive educational trusts, monastic orders like the mutts in the south, and trade organisations. Are they seeing churn within?
Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics. All said, it feels like a trans regional elite is coalescing, and unlike the post-independence one, they have real assets to endow their longevity
“The question is, … churn within?”
Vey few Indian institutions say clubs to educational organizations have reached the prominence and scale required for enduring prestige. There are no Oxford or Yale in India that can endure generations of nonsense and yet sustain the name-fame of their multi-generational patrons. Ones in India who try to sail against the currents of talent and hard work are failing in-front of our own eyes. Think of all the British-Colonial/Waqf/Hindu-Mutt type organizations, lets take the example of say Doon school or Mayo school. These places were never truly special to begin with and as their patron’s have lost power their prestige will wither even further. Organic organizations with sound allocation of brain, money, and power are already replacing them.
I am not familiar with Southern Mutt affiliated organizations. Please write more about them.
Business organizations are a prime example of the churn. My father is member of a national level small industries association. I was surprised at the collaborative effort it’s members put in to get their point across, how well thought their organization, events, donations, … are, how much influence they exert on politicians (of all sides), media, and police. These are men who have risen from petty jobs, from welding shops, from small contracting, … and yet they have achieved so much.
“Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics.”
Ideology doesn’t make money. To me Girish Mathrubootham in suit >>> Sridhar Vembu in Lungi.
Law is open to interpretation in India. This makes taking hard position impossible for most businesses. Think of what Mayawati did to Sahara India, what Yogi did to the Samajwadi affiliated builders.
strategically , India has already been beaten . partition meant two parts, pakistan and bangladesh could and would always be used against us. Whether by china or west. There is no getting around nukes of pak. So, at best we can become resilient. Thats about it.
@Ugra
Have you been following the Ola Electric scooter fires and production hell?
There is a slim but increasing chance that the lohar (Aether) might beat the Vyapari (Ola).
@bhimrao
I am following it carefully. Ola seems to have survived the inferno. My engineering WhatsApp group is trying to figure how did Ola manage to datastream the vehicle even after it went down. At least the bike magazines are convinced that there is no equipment malfunction.
Gadkari is overeacting – typical bureaucracy influence! Such incidents will happen until the “perversity” quotient of the public is sated.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qNg3SFAqWC8
Very interesting. Inside America’s only Muslim majority city. Gives me Hyderabad Old City vibes
When i studied in Sikh school,they taught sikh history there ans we studied all that there what PM has said. It is only in school books of NCERT where marxists have spread their venom. What PM has said is correct esp when leftists writing books to justify Aurangjeb
sedition for trying to chant hanuman chalisa? well, uddav seems loosing it. also when did marathis start chanting hanuman chalisa, that too in hindi? a pandurang abhang would have been the order of the day?
anyway, chanting hindi hanuman chalisa is rather new in karnataka.
Gaurav bhau/Omar uncle – can you guys get Gaurav Sabnis on a podcast, please.
Bulana toh chaahiye par bada bewakoof aadmi hai yeh toh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/gauravsabnis/status/1518631611641778177
let me ask Omar bhai to reach out – ought to be fun with Razib there
There is this weird fixation on casting themselves as having been historically victimised by the Hindu right. I don’t know what drives it. It’s not the trait of a successful, dominating people.
Some of it happened. Some of it is insecurity. Most of it is political expediency
i feel congress did well in not agreeing to let in prashant kishore. the following might be the reasons:
i) nobody wants to see/read a 600 page p p t and think to come back to power. it is good that ‘the mother and son’ gave the p p t to a committee to ‘study’.
ii) p k is more of a ‘ karyakarta’ type, talking about how to message etc.
iii) the real issue is lack of message. nobody knows what the party stands for.
The second terrorist attack in Pakistan, directed at Chinese nationals happened today.
It’s the same group, related to Baloch. This is a CIA-backed group, just like the diaspora Uighur groups are. The Pakistani establishment will feign ignorance and horror but this is happening under their noses and full knowledge. It’s the same old tactic of pretending to not to have groups under control, that they’ve used against India. Now it’s against China.
Wait, you might ask, why China? Aren’t they allies? Pakistany is also a contested space between China and the US and the Pak establishment has chosen the US. Imran Khan had to go as part of that deal. China is next on the hit list.
As I noted earlier, China has no chance compared to the West when it comes to conferring benefits to Third World elites. Pak elites, like all Third World elites, are deeply corrupt and care more about their personal enrichment than the prosperity of their country.
Pakistan is now re-orienting itself to be America’s bitch. Their finance minister is an ex-IMF man and their central banker is an ex-IMF man. Colonialism never ended for Pak, it merely switched capitals. But their elites are willing accomplices. Anyone who opposes that gets purged. Just ask Imran Khan.
Chad Jaishankar giving it to some Europeans in Delhi –
…..when rules-based order was under challenge in Asia, the advice we got from Europe is – do more trade. At least we are not giving you that advice…
If the Russians had stuck to proxy wars (like Pakistan does) rather than launch an open invasion, the Europeans might still be trading with them. Proxy wars offer plausible deniability (that the “rules-based international order” is not being threatened) unless concrete evidence of state involvement can be marshaled.
So Jayshanker’s comment is a bit disingenuous. Russia clearly is an aggressor, but our govt’s pronouncements have been on the lines of “everybody, please stop fighting and start talking”, as if “everybody” (instead of Russia solely) simultaneously started the war. This is different from Afghanistan, where the Taliban were fighting in their own country (though for sure they got help from Pakistan, but unless there is crystal clear evidence of that, it’s not the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine.) I understand the govt’s constraints and compulsions here, but there’s no need to be holier than thou about the decision we have chosen to make.
@Pandit Brown
You are clearly sounding like a “proxy liberal” today.
What is a “proxy war”? Is it like the “proxy trade” that the Europeans are doing with Russians today – handing out close to 1.5 billion euros every day just for gas. And all the while pretending to sanction Russia with their domestic constituencies.
Jaishankar is downright brutal for the liberal order which used to think trade can solve real world problems. Like the joker Friedman, who used to pretend that the presence of McDonald’s could prevent wars.
https://www.opindia.com/2022/04/love-jihad-woman-raped-forced-into-prostuition-religious-conversion-gwalior-administration-razes-accused-house/
More Rape Jihad
I find Europeans to be 10x more annoying than any American. All the arrogance/self-righteousness of the Americans with none of the power to back it up.
Have an Indian acquittance who is pissed every time, Musk is called African American. Says not everyone can be ‘African American’ just because they were born there.
His family moved from Bangladesh to India in the 80s.
rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.
rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.
Thank God he is in Katmandu. At least he is normal.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-26/india-woos-intel-and-tsmc-to-set-up-local-semiconductor-plants
As a side note, I find the Indian ministers running the show when it comes to IT to be fairly impressive. Rajeev Chandrashekar, who is in charge of these negotiations, is a pretty accomplished guy who succeeded a lot on his own and isn’t where he is because of a last name.
I know very little about chip manufacturing, but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. So why subsidise foreign companies? Wouldn’t it be better to start at a mature node and work yourself up the way the Chinese did? If subsidies should be used, then shower it on local companies.
“I know very little about chip manufacturing”
See this video of a guy making a chip at his home, explains the gist of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg
Intel does what he does time 10 Billion.
“but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. ”
We do have lots of designers in Bangalore but fabs are a different game.
India has zero chance of running a domestic foundry that is even 30 (maybe even 40) years behind current technology within the next decade.
SCL runs a foundry for ISRO and is at 180 nanometer standard. That is of 1999 vintage. DRDO has its own facilities for military applications which is at 90 nm std (2003 vintage).
Its a bad state but not that bad. Most military equipment use India fabricated chips. Actually many of the commercial application will work fine with 180 nm standards. Example – the NAVIC Indian GPS locators are fabricated with the ISRO chips. We are about 20 years behind. But most strategic uses are now covered.
You could nitpick on my estimate and I should have put it slightly differently. GAETEC 90nm was made after we got Airborne radars from Israel, it is not the same deal as a TSMC 90nm, there are so many other things that we have to consider the obvious one being scale.
https://www.strategicfront.org/indias-research-efforts-in-the-micro-controller-and-micro-processor-space-the-story-so-far/
Frum is exasperating but I did realize one thing… The birthday of the ninth Sikh guru, was just a few years after the New York Times’s year zero, 1619. So it’s an interesting opportunity to put Indian and American historiography side by side.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/caste-doesnt-just-exist-india-121932531.html
AASI Lives Matter
Sikhs vs Shiv senik/Hindus in patiala.
Shiv sena had organised ‘khalistan murdabad march’ which obviously some sikhs didnt like.
https://www.facebook.com/jindi.kamali/videos/1257695704637647/
Firing and khalistan jindabad infront of shiv and Kaali mandir.
Startups from Chennai seem to have a much stronger technical basis, and aim to solve harder problems.
This appears to be very different from the Bengaluru, Mumbai or Delhi startup scene. I am wondering if there is a genuine cultural basis to this difference, or just a statistical effect (other cities have more startups, so the technical ones get crowded out).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0mhetpGrTU&t=636s
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2022.813934/full
Not prehistoric, but old DNA nonetheless. I wonder how far the publication a prehistoric Indian paper is from now.
https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/29/india_risc_v_microprocessor_program/
https://swarajyamag.com/technology/interview-with-industry-expert-dr-satya-gupta-on-indias-quest-for-semiconductor-self-sufficiency-and-challenges-ahead
The other day I heard some S Indian diaspora late 20s guy say “Jay Sean looks Persian bro. Many people from North India look like Persians man. It is because of Mughals and them taking over India for so long.”
Another, of E Asian persuasion, responded, “Wow teaching me history. Cool stuff.”
The ignorance is glorious.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-28/modi-weighs-replacing-india-s-religion-based-laws-before-polls
very biased
The temperature is hot hot hot and getting hotter.
What are the consequences both political and economic for this climate change in India/ did anyone analyse?. Will politicians do better by offering some respite to summer temperatures, will work time change during summers?.
I am waiting for thorium based salt molten reactors from china, a trial project was supposed to start last yr. If it succeeds, in 10 yrs. China might dominate energy sector through this. any news regarding this?
“ Will politicians do better by offering some respite to summer temperatures,“
Free AC with free power. That’s the best they can do. And they will.
Thorium Based Molten Salt reactors don’t offer significant benefits compared to regular PHWRs unless you’re worried about having to import uranium like India. India’s three stage nuclear program would offer much of the same benefits if they could gather the money and political will to get it done. However the cost of nuclear power would still be more than solar and would be much more if you consider the upfront capital cost that is prohibitive in a country with scare capital like India.
The best long term solution to rising temperatures in South Asia would be something like a Space sunshade. This would not not only mitigate climate change but could also decrease temperatures even further to improve productivity. If Elon Musk can get starship working this might become viable.
never thought that aazan loudspeakers could be silenced so easily in karnataka, although, the volumes has decreased in recent days. temple/ hindu religious loudspeakers have been taken care to a great extent.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ANI/status/1520410488596688896?t=puCb7X7gCNf4eUuhFbrFpA&s=09
Halal Haleem Owaisi
https://www.opindia.com/2022/05/mumbai-ansari-arrested-after-he-kills-sonam-shukla-dumps-body-in-creek/
More Jihad
https://www.sundaytimes.lk/220501/business-times/indian-credit-for-food-goes-to-import-steel-481177.html
India should probably play a bit more hardball with Sri Lanka given that the corrupt clique that runs the show there are confiscating the credit line to enrich their crony capitalist friends, rather than helping the people.
India should probably play a bit more hardball with Sri Lanka given that the corrupt clique
Confirms my view that you Tamil Diaspora.
However India knows the need to balance, else SL will go full china. Maybe sell Trinco port too.. Any even now SL is getting decent hand outs from China. USD 8 billion I last heard.
====== Related
There is no doubt Beijing investment has powered a renaissance at the port since the Greek government was forced to sell it – and other public assets – in the aftermath of the economic turmoil that hit so hard in 2008.
The boom at Piraeus – including job opportunities for locals – mirrors a wider transformation in Greece’s financial fortunes. It is now one of the fastest growing EU economies.
– and recalls that China was the only investor to come forward at the time the Greek government was forced to sell the port.
Following the 2008 crash, the so-called “European troika” of the European Commission, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund were adamant the port be sold to help service Greece’s spiralling debts.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61276168
The Twitter fracas between Ajay Devgan and Kannada actor Sudeep is one among the many long term emergent challenges facing cultural consolidation of Hindutva.
Admittedly Ajay Devgan (or his Twitter team) were more concerned with a bread and butter issue – more and more South Indian movies with nativist appeal are being dubbed into Hindi and taking away screens and revenues from Bollywood productions.
Bollywood – filled with Punjabis and the Gangetic “survival secularism” ethos has never really owned or warmed up to Hindu narratives. Now it’s coming back to bite them in the rear.
Ajay Devgan smoothly converted this into a language issue while in fact it is a cultural war. Congress and JD in Karnataka have hijacked the issue to their own political ends. Really a minefield!
Hindutva (from Western India) has won only one part of the war – the political mobilisation in Gangetic India. It must also win and vanquish its cultural foes. For now, Bollywood remains the last outpost of Gangetic secularism.
@Ugra
This time Telugu cinema (RRR) has pulled off Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka better than Bollywood. Earlier Andhra didn’t have the scale, production, star power of Salmon Bhai.
The central issue is this: any movie Bollywood makes in 2022 could have been made equally well in 2012, formulaic 55 yo uncle’s naach-gaana around crystal hearts and giggling women in bikinis just don’t sell in the age of Tiktok and Instagram. That is stagnation. Look at the horrid CGI and nonexistent scripts of Bollywood.
Movies made in 2012:
Gangs of Wasseypur, Barfi, Agneepath, Dabangg 2, Jab tak hai jaan, Talaash.
The movies in 2022 are not better made than these movies.
###
This was not true in 2002-2012 when the production-quality/themes objectively improved.
Amazon (Prime) is throwing bad money after bad money on Indian content. Not sure how many of its shows will stick. Considering that shows have faced the same issues as Netflix India. It has now faced up to the facts, and relented itself to become an Government of India media wing.
But since its Amazon, it can.
@Bhimrao
RRR is beyond “Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka” – there are elements in it that posit the Brahmin/Kshatriya – Tribal interactions in a Puranic light. I don’t think Bollywood has ever dared to adapt any of the Itihaasas/Puranas to modernity and refocus the freedom struggle in their light.
There is extreme swing in Bollywood – from a point in time when only “poor/suffering” stories sold to now “conspicuous consumption”.
It’s either socialism or faux modernity – no middle ground. All the breakway directors/production houses of Bollywood that delivered good lines/stories in 2012 have been co-opted into the lunatic asylum in 2022.
The last great crossover from Bollywood into South India (remakes/plotlines) was Vidhu Vinod Chopra (Munna MBBS, 3 Idiots) for their universality. Otherwise it’s just a one way street in terms of remakes and dubbings from South Indian movies into Bollywood. This is the reason for a clear sense of siege among Bollywood actors.
How can one not be amazed that there is almost no big-ticket Bollywood movie about RJB (either the courtroom drama or ground actions) and other Hindu consolidation? All of these empty spaces are getting exploited by SI Cinema.
Folks made similar predictions after Bahubali. SI cinema has all of the same vices as Bollywood sometimes to a far greater degree : misogyny, hero-worship, nepotism, naach-gaana, …
It will take a long winning streak to dethrone Bollywood. Chiknesh Shroff/Kapoor can keep their cities, Hindi speaking towns and villages are ripe for the taking.
I am cheering any decent Madraasi actor over Gutkh-ajai Devgan.
@Bhimrao
You are tremendously mistaken in putting them on the same shelf.
SI Cinema has produced Chief Ministers from its ranks. It has proven itself in cultural exports and ideological oeuvres.
If I see what’s happening across North India, there is a vacuum between political demands of the burgeoning middle classes and the cultural output. Forget supplying, Bollywood doesn’t even know how and where to start.
Netflix, TV, streaming can only compete for pulp and cheesecake. Only the big screen can satisfy mass demands.
I am not putting them in the same shelf, they just share the same vices.
Two movies from late 2000s, Magadhera (muscular Hindu) vs Jodha-Akbar (Ganga-Jamuni) exemplified the core difference between the two worldviews.