261 thoughts on “Open Thread – 4/22/2022 – Brown Pundits”

  1. This is ultimately what woke leftists do elsewhere – talk about dead people from 300 years ago, blame them for today’s state of affairs, and then claim flying chariots/decolonisation/indigenous magic/antiracism will move them into the future.

    This is fascism when brown people overseas fixate on identarianism and communalism – but progressive when magic ethnic people and white performers do it in the Atlantic world.

  2. Don’t think Frum knows much of Indian history, or much about Aurangzeb for that matter. That Mughal emperor has been a byword for bigotry and tyranny since his lifetime, and Modi has nothing to do with it.

    On the flipside, I saw lots of idiots on Twitter calling Frum a liberal or a leftist. Basically there’s a disconnect between Indian political chatter and American political chatter, neither side knowing much about the other, present or past. These dolts don’t seem to know that Frum was like George W. Bush’s consiglieri and has been a member of the American right forever (albeit of the neocon kind.)

    1. The problem here isn’t that Frum is a “leftist” (he isn’t, obviously) it’s that he shares many Americans’ disinterest in history.

  3. “The problem with Europeans is they think 200 miles is a long distance, the problem with Americans is they think 200 years is a long time.”

    David Frum really is a moron.

  4. Indian political thought in a nutshell…

    If you are a left centrist in India you rail against 200 years of colonialism.

    If you are right centrist you rail against 800 years of colonialism.

    If you are far left you rail against 3000 years of colonialism.

    If you are far right you claim that 3000 years ago Indians colonized Europe and are proud of it.

  5. This is how the parallel universes met……..

    David Frum has been a regular attacker of Modi ever since he clued in onto the bonhomie between Trump and Modi. Again a case of misplaced ire, as Trump had unseated the Bush Dynasty in the most humiliating manner. He has been doing this (potshots at Modi) since a looooong time. Frum was already stupid because Modi was being purely transactional with the leader of another country. Even with the exit of Trump, Frum continued his silliness.

    Now this tweet resonated with a wider audience…..because of all the topical heat from Ram Navami and Jahangirpuri (wtf is this North Indian stockholm syndrome for Mughal nomenclature). Where the Indian liberals have seemingly scored one over the Hindutva Machine (a JCB) by getting the SC to intervene. All manner of liberals are now strutting on the ramp and preening their feathers over this victory. Into this heated setting, wandered in Frum with his regular but silly tweet. The other member of the Aurangzeb Harem also jumped in with her views.

    Boris Johnson has been doing all the right things – like posing in a JCB bulldozer at Ahmedabad to curry favour with Modi……just genius!! I do hope he also tweets something against Aurangzeb.

    Modi has done the unthinkable….he has now constructed an authentic Durbar where Europeans and Americans now routinely outdo each other in currying (or falling out of) favour.

  6. But David Frum is ok when leftists attack American/Western historical figures from 300 years ago. Born in Canada, campaigned for Canadian far left, moved to the US, became a Republican convert to spread liberalism worldwide by bombing them into oblivion and now regularly jumps back and forth between UK, Canada and the US. Truly a rootless cosmopolitan.

  7. Frum’s a globalist liberal rather than conservative or left. He’s the kind of guy you find staffing the UN bureaucracy, World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. He sees himself as a global citizen, a real Davos man.
    He was a minor player in the Bush administration, but hated Trump with the passion of a billion white hot suns. Primarily because of Trump’s nativist, antiestablishment stances and humiliating Jeb Bush.

  8. Their Lies, propaganda are fuel . Without outright lies of left, I dont think BJP could have risen as it did. Modi / bjp/rss has used their lies as fuel . They(left) believe they have the power to brainwash people. What is happening is opposite, Indian people who earlier craved for western appreciation and such cringe shit exists even now regarding reaction videos to movies ( i am hopeful as familiarity breeds contempt eventually). Are now calling out, trushke has done us a great service. Much as Indian historians discredited themselves, western experts are discrediting themselves. I see a wonderful disdain for western experts/ media developing in this country. As Indian economy grows, this will only grow. perhaps once we get to 10 trillion dollars is probably when this disdain will be also be backed by good research /scholarship as well. Right now not too many have time for this kind of stuff. what i dont want is self inflicted injuries. And if we avoid collapse or self inflicted injuries over next 100 to 150 yrs. Our victory is assured. What I hate about Hindutva is its lack of patience and reliance on incitement for everyday politics. One does not need to shoot the enemy, one needs to just grow stronger and powerful and economically wealthy enough that our transactional power will buy us much leverage on its own. Most of the noise is a consequence of first past the poll system that leads to upping the noise and rhetoric for electoral success but a better way needs to be found. But I am hopeful , i can see truth winning. Or as sun tzu put it. victorious warriors win first and then go to war, not the other way around.

    1. Indian twitter picks up some random gora every few weeks. Usually the random gora enjoys the attention. There was another chutiya Bruno Maçães who was fucking around before this one.

  9. Always curious to find how are we so sure on Aurangzeb or his supposed atrocities? If Audrey Truschke’s or some other work highlights the fact that the record is mixed and difficult to see him outside the context of his time- why not argue on facts? History and historiography is now quite well defined and all ideas are extensively peer reviewed. Instead the response is to start calling her ‘Tucchi’ or ‘missionary’ or other assorted words from ‘dharmic shabdkosh’ alluding to world’s oldest profession.

    On the point of him demolishing temples and there being an unbroken continuum of this since centuries, a recent guest of BP podcasts seems to be having ideas on supreme court 🙂 building


    Maybe the ‘Indic renaissance ‘ give a new meaning to ideas of conservatism. Ma Durga bless everyone:)

  10. What he actually meant to say was:-
    “quit yer whinging, ya dindus! Toe the political line of your colonial overlords!” but since he’s a Leftist with quark sized testicles, he hides behind a passive aggressive rhetorical question.

    “Why is Mudi talking about a 300 yr old Mughal?”
    Because Aurangzeb is one of the exemplars of the enduring cultural&political legacy of Islamic Fascism in the subcontinent. He is still relevant because he’s like the grandfather of the Ideologies that caused the Partition&Indo-Pak Wars.

  11. I think Frum needs to be viewed in context. There is alarm in the West that India is getting too nationalistic. Some of this concern may be justified but you get the sense that Frum and his ilk doesn’t care about India and their alarm about India is for other reasons.

    I say that because he supports a hypernationalistic Israel for tribal reasons (he’s Jewish). Nationalism, even aggressively racist nationalism, is not beyond him as long as his own people are doing it.

    So it’s not about principles. It’s about the fact that a secular/liberal India will be more pliable for the US than a nationalistic India.

    But like so many people in the West, his takes on India are comical and likely influenced by far-left agitators such as Audrey Truschke.

  12. shekar gupta’s lament in print:


    in karnataka congress had no opinion on the hijab/halla/azan row. its muslim m l a s are unhappy at being restrained from talking on these issues. only siddaramiah is making some noises.
    i feel if muslim m l a s desert congress for jds, congress may be in advantage of shaking off the ‘secular’ image and fight b j p on caste basis, where it appears stronger.

  13. The same man who was a major instigator of the Iraq War which killed half a million people and caused untold suffering in the Middle East is trying lowkey to criticise Modi’s policies towards Muslims.

    This is the lack of self awareness mixed in with neocon style self-righteous that leads to the online hostility he’s getting.

    I don’t condone trolling or harassment, even against warmongers like Frum. Still, a bit more perspective and humility when commenting on issues they know nothing about is something I’d like to see from America’s twitterati.

    The growing number of Indians posting online is leading to more American elites to realise that the Indian liberals who write op-eds for New York Times or the Washington Post and call Modi a fascist are far removed from the views of the Average Indian.

    It’s not just geopolitics and the desire for a weaker and more Westernised India, American elites have retained the white man’s burden to civilise the browns and will so whatever it takes to save a billion plus souls, whether or not it serves the US’ geopolitical interests to lecture the Indian government like a child.

    This is the same government whose genius foreign policy planners pushed China and Russia together and would definitely attempt a color revolution in New Delhi if they had the capacity to do so!

  14. Haven’t heard of the chap myself, but from what the other commenters have noted he seems like someone who’s being made politically irrelevant in his country and he’s fighting to stay relevant. Basically someone who’s comments shouldn’t be taken seriously.

    The H-right does seem to think of itself as uniquely villified by the west, but passing judgement upon everyone else is one of the few things that unites the western left and right and this is nothing but a form of sizing up potential rivals and threats to power. Nothing to get too flustered about, they are best ignored or briefly responded to like FM SJ did recently.

    Articles decrying China have been coming thick from the western agitprop mills for decades which no one takes seriously anymore. I remember the flurry of such articles in the run up to the Beijing olympics, but they still queue up to do business with China. And post 9/11 until the recent rise of Islamophobia as a verboten term the Arab and muslim world was widely villified, and at one time the most common villains in film and TV (of course it’s back to the bad ol Russkies now).

    The only benign foreigners in the eyes of the Anglo-west are the Japs, Germans, French, Spanish, etc – former fierce rivals now reduced to exotic lapdogs.

  15. I remember the old Indian Lefty view (expounded famously by A Sen, among others) is that Akbar was the “good Mughal” while Aurangzeb was the “bad Mughal.”

    Weirdly, I’ve not seen any Twitter Lefties making this argument recently. In the thread, the few Lefties (it’s overwhelmingly Righties responding to Frum) are just trashing Modi and the BJP. None are actually answering his question.

    Have they abandoned that talking point?

  16. Thinking strictly along the lines of left and right isn’t helpful let alone consistent.

  17. There are no real Indian elites. It is a made up category used by folks who can’t think originally and can only repurpose American vocabulary and ideas. The churn is too high. Former kings and ministers with net worth in a few tens to hundreds of millions of dollars get overshadowed by mere Saari/Mattress/Spice traders of their hometowns. Multi generational bureaucrat families are being humbled by sons of their chaprassy working in Silicon Valley.

    1. @bhimrao
      This is a good point. I can only speak to my personal exposure, but I’ve seen the churn of influence (on the household level) from the feudal class to the educated lawyers/journalists /bureaucrats to highly resourceful kleptocrats and now to the money power of small capitalists. The latter could be a family with a regionally scaled fruit trading business, a real estate portfolio and leverage within a religious trust. The question is, how enduring is institutional influence at all echelons of society. Think of massive educational trusts, monastic orders like the mutts in the south, and trade organisations. Are they seeing churn within?
      Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics. All said, it feels like a trans regional elite is coalescing, and unlike the post-independence one, they have real assets to endow their longevity

      1. “The question is, … churn within?”

        Vey few Indian institutions say clubs to educational organizations have reached the prominence and scale required for enduring prestige. There are no Oxford or Yale in India that can endure generations of nonsense and yet sustain the name-fame of their multi-generational patrons. Ones in India who try to sail against the currents of talent and hard work are failing in-front of our own eyes. Think of all the British-Colonial/Waqf/Hindu-Mutt type organizations, lets take the example of say Doon school or Mayo school. These places were never truly special to begin with and as their patron’s have lost power their prestige will wither even further. Organic organizations with sound allocation of brain, money, and power are already replacing them.

        I am not familiar with Southern Mutt affiliated organizations. Please write more about them.

      2. Business organizations are a prime example of the churn. My father is member of a national level small industries association. I was surprised at the collaborative effort it’s members put in to get their point across, how well thought their organization, events, donations, … are, how much influence they exert on politicians (of all sides), media, and police. These are men who have risen from petty jobs, from welding shops, from small contracting, … and yet they have achieved so much.

        “Apart from this, on the highest levels, the top 100 corporations and 20 media houses, is there any actual passion for ideology? I feel like in the higher circles one moves, you find more tactical thinking and fewer true believers. Even the most anglophone nehruvian types have better internal links to the BJP than to vernacular politics.”

        Ideology doesn’t make money. To me Girish Mathrubootham in suit >>> Sridhar Vembu in Lungi.

        Law is open to interpretation in India. This makes taking hard position impossible for most businesses. Think of what Mayawati did to Sahara India, what Yogi did to the Samajwadi affiliated builders.

  18. strategically , India has already been beaten . partition meant two parts, pakistan and bangladesh could and would always be used against us. Whether by china or west. There is no getting around nukes of pak. So, at best we can become resilient. Thats about it.

  19. @Ugra
    Have you been following the Ola Electric scooter fires and production hell?

    There is a slim but increasing chance that the lohar (Aether) might beat the Vyapari (Ola).

    1. @bhimrao

      I am following it carefully. Ola seems to have survived the inferno. My engineering WhatsApp group is trying to figure how did Ola manage to datastream the vehicle even after it went down. At least the bike magazines are convinced that there is no equipment malfunction.

      Gadkari is overeacting – typical bureaucracy influence! Such incidents will happen until the “perversity” quotient of the public is sated.

  20. When i studied in Sikh school,they taught sikh history there ans we studied all that there what PM has said. It is only in school books of NCERT where marxists have spread their venom. What PM has said is correct esp when leftists writing books to justify Aurangjeb

  21. sedition for trying to chant hanuman chalisa? well, uddav seems loosing it. also when did marathis start chanting hanuman chalisa, that too in hindi? a pandurang abhang would have been the order of the day?
    anyway, chanting hindi hanuman chalisa is rather new in karnataka.

  22. There is this weird fixation on casting themselves as having been historically victimised by the Hindu right. I don’t know what drives it. It’s not the trait of a successful, dominating people.

    1. Some of it happened. Some of it is insecurity. Most of it is political expediency

  23. i feel congress did well in not agreeing to let in prashant kishore. the following might be the reasons:
    i) nobody wants to see/read a 600 page p p t and think to come back to power. it is good that ‘the mother and son’ gave the p p t to a committee to ‘study’.
    ii) p k is more of a ‘ karyakarta’ type, talking about how to message etc.
    iii) the real issue is lack of message. nobody knows what the party stands for.

  24. The second terrorist attack in Pakistan, directed at Chinese nationals happened today.

    It’s the same group, related to Baloch. This is a CIA-backed group, just like the diaspora Uighur groups are. The Pakistani establishment will feign ignorance and horror but this is happening under their noses and full knowledge. It’s the same old tactic of pretending to not to have groups under control, that they’ve used against India. Now it’s against China.

    Wait, you might ask, why China? Aren’t they allies? Pakistany is also a contested space between China and the US and the Pak establishment has chosen the US. Imran Khan had to go as part of that deal. China is next on the hit list.

    As I noted earlier, China has no chance compared to the West when it comes to conferring benefits to Third World elites. Pak elites, like all Third World elites, are deeply corrupt and care more about their personal enrichment than the prosperity of their country.

    Pakistan is now re-orienting itself to be America’s bitch. Their finance minister is an ex-IMF man and their central banker is an ex-IMF man. Colonialism never ended for Pak, it merely switched capitals. But their elites are willing accomplices. Anyone who opposes that gets purged. Just ask Imran Khan.

  25. Chad Jaishankar giving it to some Europeans in Delhi –

    …..when rules-based order was under challenge in Asia, the advice we got from Europe is – do more trade. At least we are not giving you that advice…

    1. If the Russians had stuck to proxy wars (like Pakistan does) rather than launch an open invasion, the Europeans might still be trading with them. Proxy wars offer plausible deniability (that the “rules-based international order” is not being threatened) unless concrete evidence of state involvement can be marshaled.

      So Jayshanker’s comment is a bit disingenuous. Russia clearly is an aggressor, but our govt’s pronouncements have been on the lines of “everybody, please stop fighting and start talking”, as if “everybody” (instead of Russia solely) simultaneously started the war. This is different from Afghanistan, where the Taliban were fighting in their own country (though for sure they got help from Pakistan, but unless there is crystal clear evidence of that, it’s not the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine.) I understand the govt’s constraints and compulsions here, but there’s no need to be holier than thou about the decision we have chosen to make.

      1. @Pandit Brown

        You are clearly sounding like a “proxy liberal” today.

        What is a “proxy war”? Is it like the “proxy trade” that the Europeans are doing with Russians today – handing out close to 1.5 billion euros every day just for gas. And all the while pretending to sanction Russia with their domestic constituencies.

        Jaishankar is downright brutal for the liberal order which used to think trade can solve real world problems. Like the joker Friedman, who used to pretend that the presence of McDonald’s could prevent wars.

  26. I find Europeans to be 10x more annoying than any American. All the arrogance/self-righteousness of the Americans with none of the power to back it up.

  27. Have an Indian acquittance who is pissed every time, Musk is called African American. Says not everyone can be ‘African American’ just because they were born there.

    His family moved from Bangladesh to India in the 80s.

  28. rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.

  29. rahul gandhi, pl. come back from vacation. it is only april and you have already taken three breaks.

  30. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-26/india-woos-intel-and-tsmc-to-set-up-local-semiconductor-plants

    As a side note, I find the Indian ministers running the show when it comes to IT to be fairly impressive. Rajeev Chandrashekar, who is in charge of these negotiations, is a pretty accomplished guy who succeeded a lot on his own and isn’t where he is because of a last name.

    I know very little about chip manufacturing, but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. So why subsidise foreign companies? Wouldn’t it be better to start at a mature node and work yourself up the way the Chinese did? If subsidies should be used, then shower it on local companies.

    1. “I know very little about chip manufacturing”

      See this video of a guy making a chip at his home, explains the gist of it:
      Intel does what he does time 10 Billion.

      “but I’m fairly confident that India should have the talent base to create their own entire industry if they set their mind to it and work on a realistic time table. ”

      We do have lots of designers in Bangalore but fabs are a different game.
      India has zero chance of running a domestic foundry that is even 30 (maybe even 40) years behind current technology within the next decade.

      1. SCL runs a foundry for ISRO and is at 180 nanometer standard. That is of 1999 vintage. DRDO has its own facilities for military applications which is at 90 nm std (2003 vintage).

        Its a bad state but not that bad. Most military equipment use India fabricated chips. Actually many of the commercial application will work fine with 180 nm standards. Example – the NAVIC Indian GPS locators are fabricated with the ISRO chips. We are about 20 years behind. But most strategic uses are now covered.

  31. Frum is exasperating but I did realize one thing… The birthday of the ninth Sikh guru, was just a few years after the New York Times’s year zero, 1619. So it’s an interesting opportunity to put Indian and American historiography side by side.

  32. Startups from Chennai seem to have a much stronger technical basis, and aim to solve harder problems.

    This appears to be very different from the Bengaluru, Mumbai or Delhi startup scene. I am wondering if there is a genuine cultural basis to this difference, or just a statistical effect (other cities have more startups, so the technical ones get crowded out).


  33. The other day I heard some S Indian diaspora late 20s guy say “Jay Sean looks Persian bro. Many people from North India look like Persians man. It is because of Mughals and them taking over India for so long.”

    Another, of E Asian persuasion, responded, “Wow teaching me history. Cool stuff.”
    The ignorance is glorious.

  34. The temperature is hot hot hot and getting hotter.

    What are the consequences both political and economic for this climate change in India/ did anyone analyse?. Will politicians do better by offering some respite to summer temperatures, will work time change during summers?.

    I am waiting for thorium based salt molten reactors from china, a trial project was supposed to start last yr. If it succeeds, in 10 yrs. China might dominate energy sector through this. any news regarding this?

    1. “ Will politicians do better by offering some respite to summer temperatures,“

      Free AC with free power. That’s the best they can do. And they will.

    2. Thorium Based Molten Salt reactors don’t offer significant benefits compared to regular PHWRs unless you’re worried about having to import uranium like India. India’s three stage nuclear program would offer much of the same benefits if they could gather the money and political will to get it done. However the cost of nuclear power would still be more than solar and would be much more if you consider the upfront capital cost that is prohibitive in a country with scare capital like India.
      The best long term solution to rising temperatures in South Asia would be something like a Space sunshade. This would not not only mitigate climate change but could also decrease temperatures even further to improve productivity. If Elon Musk can get starship working this might become viable.

  35. never thought that aazan loudspeakers could be silenced so easily in karnataka, although, the volumes has decreased in recent days. temple/ hindu religious loudspeakers have been taken care to a great extent.

    1. India should probably play a bit more hardball with Sri Lanka given that the corrupt clique

      Confirms my view that you Tamil Diaspora.

      However India knows the need to balance, else SL will go full china. Maybe sell Trinco port too.. Any even now SL is getting decent hand outs from China. USD 8 billion I last heard.

      ====== Related
      There is no doubt Beijing investment has powered a renaissance at the port since the Greek government was forced to sell it – and other public assets – in the aftermath of the economic turmoil that hit so hard in 2008.
      The boom at Piraeus – including job opportunities for locals – mirrors a wider transformation in Greece’s financial fortunes. It is now one of the fastest growing EU economies.
      – and recalls that China was the only investor to come forward at the time the Greek government was forced to sell the port.

      Following the 2008 crash, the so-called “European troika” of the European Commission, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund were adamant the port be sold to help service Greece’s spiralling debts.

  36. The Twitter fracas between Ajay Devgan and Kannada actor Sudeep is one among the many long term emergent challenges facing cultural consolidation of Hindutva.

    Admittedly Ajay Devgan (or his Twitter team) were more concerned with a bread and butter issue – more and more South Indian movies with nativist appeal are being dubbed into Hindi and taking away screens and revenues from Bollywood productions.

    Bollywood – filled with Punjabis and the Gangetic “survival secularism” ethos has never really owned or warmed up to Hindu narratives. Now it’s coming back to bite them in the rear.

    Ajay Devgan smoothly converted this into a language issue while in fact it is a cultural war. Congress and JD in Karnataka have hijacked the issue to their own political ends. Really a minefield!

    Hindutva (from Western India) has won only one part of the war – the political mobilisation in Gangetic India. It must also win and vanquish its cultural foes. For now, Bollywood remains the last outpost of Gangetic secularism.

    1. @Ugra
      This time Telugu cinema (RRR) has pulled off Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka better than Bollywood. Earlier Andhra didn’t have the scale, production, star power of Salmon Bhai.

      The central issue is this: any movie Bollywood makes in 2022 could have been made equally well in 2012, formulaic 55 yo uncle’s naach-gaana around crystal hearts and giggling women in bikinis just don’t sell in the age of Tiktok and Instagram. That is stagnation. Look at the horrid CGI and nonexistent scripts of Bollywood.

      1. Movies made in 2012:
        Gangs of Wasseypur, Barfi, Agneepath, Dabangg 2, Jab tak hai jaan, Talaash.
        The movies in 2022 are not better made than these movies.


        This was not true in 2002-2012 when the production-quality/themes objectively improved.

        1. Amazon (Prime) is throwing bad money after bad money on Indian content. Not sure how many of its shows will stick. Considering that shows have faced the same issues as Netflix India. It has now faced up to the facts, and relented itself to become an Government of India media wing.

          But since its Amazon, it can.

      2. @Bhimrao

        RRR is beyond “Naach-Gaana-Dhoom-Dhadaka” – there are elements in it that posit the Brahmin/Kshatriya – Tribal interactions in a Puranic light. I don’t think Bollywood has ever dared to adapt any of the Itihaasas/Puranas to modernity and refocus the freedom struggle in their light.

        There is extreme swing in Bollywood – from a point in time when only “poor/suffering” stories sold to now “conspicuous consumption”.

        It’s either socialism or faux modernity – no middle ground. All the breakway directors/production houses of Bollywood that delivered good lines/stories in 2012 have been co-opted into the lunatic asylum in 2022.

        The last great crossover from Bollywood into South India (remakes/plotlines) was Vidhu Vinod Chopra (Munna MBBS, 3 Idiots) for their universality. Otherwise it’s just a one way street in terms of remakes and dubbings from South Indian movies into Bollywood. This is the reason for a clear sense of siege among Bollywood actors.

        How can one not be amazed that there is almost no big-ticket Bollywood movie about RJB (either the courtroom drama or ground actions) and other Hindu consolidation? All of these empty spaces are getting exploited by SI Cinema.

        1. Folks made similar predictions after Bahubali. SI cinema has all of the same vices as Bollywood sometimes to a far greater degree : misogyny, hero-worship, nepotism, naach-gaana, …

          It will take a long winning streak to dethrone Bollywood. Chiknesh Shroff/Kapoor can keep their cities, Hindi speaking towns and villages are ripe for the taking.

          I am cheering any decent Madraasi actor over Gutkh-ajai Devgan.

          1. @Bhimrao

            You are tremendously mistaken in putting them on the same shelf.

            SI Cinema has produced Chief Ministers from its ranks. It has proven itself in cultural exports and ideological oeuvres.

            If I see what’s happening across North India, there is a vacuum between political demands of the burgeoning middle classes and the cultural output. Forget supplying, Bollywood doesn’t even know how and where to start.

            Netflix, TV, streaming can only compete for pulp and cheesecake. Only the big screen can satisfy mass demands.

          2. I am not putting them in the same shelf, they just share the same vices.

            Two movies from late 2000s, Magadhera (muscular Hindu) vs Jodha-Akbar (Ganga-Jamuni) exemplified the core difference between the two worldviews.

    1. What can I say bhai?
      Indian armed forces lumber one, most super-duper professional forces in the world. Indian babus best of the best. Low quality human resource, low quality planning, low quality outcomes, squandering decades.

      This is a re-run of the fuckups in Aircraft procurements. Five out of seven companies have dropped out. Everything from guns to fighters will then be bought and begged on ’emergency’ basis.

      Weep at the low quality men we have. These Generals and Babus will make us celebrate ‘shitty Sukhois dodging AAMRAMs’, send young men to face F-16s in 1960 vintage Mig-21s, make up excuses for launching Brahmos into Pakistan, sink their own submarines, capsize their own ships, crash on a monthly basis. No one takes responsibility, the nation pays. Our national character on display. What Google : Infosys, USA : India.

    2. Surrounded by countries whoring themselves out to China, hosting even Chinese nuclear submarines (SL, Pakistan) one would think Indians will have some sense. One day in near future a Chinese aircraft carrier will come visit. But here we are…

  37. New genetic proof links 246 Indian soldiers killed in Punjab’s Ajnala during 1857 uprising to Gangetic plains.

    The study, published in the journal Frontiers in Genetics on Thursday, identified the individual remains as belonging to that of soldiers of the 26th Native Bengal Infantry regiment of the British Indian Army. The new evidence has put a lid on all hypotheses and folklore swirling around the Sepoy Mutiny in this Punjab district..


  38. Are Indian immigrants good for America?

    Is Roe Leaker Another Unscrupulous Indian Trying To Destroy The Country?

    Twitter and Gab are aflame with speculation, and the outright accusation that Amit Jain, a communist, anti-American Indian, is the U.S. Supreme Court clerk who leaked the court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. If true, the move is typically underhanded Indian subversion.


    1. ‘With six communist Yale law students, he wrote a piece for The Nation with this line: “If anything, our legal training has taught us that civility has its limits, and that disruption, creative protest, and rule-breaking are valid and often necessary tactics to effect change”’

      Jains trying to be ‘combative’ is cute.

    2. Minorities who are richer and then subvert the values of the majority are generally not liked. Jews are fine in the US because they are generally indistinguishable from the white majority and Christian Americans are weirdly very pro-Jewish, so only the very committed racists notice. Wrt to Indians, the average American has begun to notice.

      1. @hj
        Is Indian-American activism simply mimicking the worldview of the US managerial class? Tempted to think we have a innate talent for this BS and wonder if satyagraha was anything but obnoxious woke theatre to ensure that Indian independence was the transfer of control to a specific class of Indians and not to a feudal or military elite.

        1. This is true. Indian Bronson on Twitter has a good thread arguing that Indian Americans are just adopting the worldview of the PMC class. But the problem with such striving minority groups is that they rely on the patronage of a faction of the majority/dominant group. Sort of like Jews under liberal European monarchs in the 18 and 19th centuries, Christian Arabs under Baathist leaders in the mid-20th century or the Chinese in Southeast Asia under the colonial Europeans. But if that faction gets replaced as it did in all three above cases, then the striving minorities are screwed.

      2. Wrt to Indians, the average American has begun to notice.

        And many of those Americans who keep noticing in public to make sure other Americans notice also happen to be Jewish (e.g. Amy Wax).

  39. https://youtu.be/aDU50er5zGc

    A short documentary on Royal Enfield, which under Siddhartha Lal, has been beating American and Japanese manufacturers in their home markets.

    RE has been wowing customers in LATAM, NA and European geographies with a different marketing proposition of torquey, low-gadget and maintenance-free bikes. So much so that RE is the only bike manufacturer offering a 3 year warranty on its bikes.

    For long, Western proponents of globalisation hawked a left brain – right brain model, where marketing, artistic, design & craft jobs will remain in the West while low-skill production would get outsourced to India and China.

    RE beats that mindset with customer need discovery for engineered products. This should rank Siddhartha right up there with Ambani, NRN and Indian origin tech CEOs.

    Btw, the documentary maker notes that Siddhartha is the only CEO to ride a bike to his job regularly – the mark of a craftsman CEO as opposed to a financial whiz.

  40. is boria mazumdar vs saha spat only a case of bengali bitching or is it a upper caste vs lower caste thing?

    1. How can anyone be intimidated by someone named Boria Mazumdar, is beyond me..

      Its like being intimidated by a Jain

  41. https://kannada.news18.com/news/mandya/tipu-martyrdom-day-on-may-4-some-organization-arrange-dodda-nanjegowda-day-one-who-killed-tipu-in-mandya-sgmtv-ggb-762474.html

    tipu sultan died on july 4th 1799. we all believed that an unknown british soldier killed him in battle. now there are groups in karnataka, saying that tipu was killed by dodda nanje gowda and uri gowda and these groups are to celebrate this event in response to some events glorifying tipu.
    does any body know if there is any truth in this matter?

      1. For Punjabis like Fawad Chaudhry, Mysore or Bengal, they all the same shit. Pakistanis see India in the following 3 divisions:

        1) Punjabi Sikhs
        2) Hindustanis (UP/Bihar)
        3) Rest of India all sem 2 sem

        1. Not dissimilar to how Bengalis see the subcontinent as well.
          1. Poonjabis (Sikhs)
          2. Hindustanis (Bihari+UP wallahs+Pakistanis)
          3. Madrasis

          1. I have an intelligent Marathi fob software engineer friend who didn’t know Bangladeshis are Bengalis.

            Many hard science / engineering type people I meet are fairly unaware of things outside of their narrow area of expertise. Not limited to Indians.

      1. There probably was a fracas. Tlpu was generally feared rather than admired. In the mele some of these guys might have given a blow or two.
        Lots of things needs to be uncovered.

        There is no full disclosure as to who Mir sadak was!!. We don’t know his father, family, native place etc. On a trip to srirangapattana 40 years back as college students, a guy volunteered to be our guide, which we all refused. He requested us for a minute and said that Mir sadik was a palegar of ganjam, (a near by village), and that tipu had converted him forcibly and thus he took revenge. I have not been successful in knowing the truth either.

    1. @Bhimrao

      he has one of the most popular platforms. I also like that his questions were the most challenging and IK deflected most of them with his usual rhetoric, and had no real answers to them. So it kinda tells me that IK has no real plan to change any status quo in Sindh, so Karachi/Sindh is going to be f88ckd regardless of who wins the next elections.

      1. I think this is exactly the bane of the subcontinent. The expectation of our politicians being superhuman while the regular population ( from which they come from) being mostly average.

        I see imran side stepping issues as coming to terms with limitation of Country’s governance structures. No politician can really achieve more than what the nation resources can provide. It’s similar to modi”s tenure where pretty early he found out that there is precious little he can do economically, so might as well do a better redistribution job.

  42. Heard a bit of crockshit of ghazala wahab on seen unseen with amit varma. Never heard of more softer balls than him. He might have just shut up all along. Gems of amit verma – “islam gained perhaps because it is a simple story and others are complex, there was syncretism all around, etc etc. Temples were destroyed to bring down the local kings and for loot and not religion . Hinduism didnt exist, it was made under british, peaceful sufism, etc.”
    None of this works for Islam. Because it carries the rules that blasphemy shall be put to death and apostacy shall be put to death. Where a group has legal views that bounds it in such way, one cannot make use of pedestrian arguments that ,”bro, they are not very different from others who did such things before bro, its just money bro, its just similar violence as before bro etc”. Legal laws of such kind binds a group and distinguishes it from others, that is its purpose. That even as people work together, even as people might share some common interaction for decades or centuries, such norms that distinguishes people and especially legal codes of such kind means that all such syncretism, interaction is temporary and is meant to dissolve through a series of disputes and violent events. Like castles build on a sand collapses every time and no one wonders why. Words like syncretism and complex interaction mean bs. That is why in Today’s world the same idiots insist on “secularism, constitution, etc”. Hence the polytheists of arabia dont exist, zoroastrians in persia are now caged, buddhists dont exist in most of central asia. any place vectors are used in sociological, historical research?.

    1. so, continuing to listen after skipping ahead, they speak of these, but put blame on wahabists, etc .Original islam was simple sufism etc. “Indian muslims are not extremists, sufis vs wahabis etc”. Indian muslims have achieved more than most, they literally created pakistan. Something even isis could not achieve anything like that, and went on to help taliban come to power. And did all this without oil. Such simplistic tales. Basically peddling “explanation” for radicalism among muslims to non muslims.

      I do this so you dont have to.

      I guess, it has to be this lengthy, this bad, this indirect tour to address and try to come out with “explanations”. Is it harder to come up with a face saver for islam than it is for other religion to square up with modern notions of rights and progress?.

    1. @thewarlock

      Brother, have you ever encountered any hatred from East Asians in US? I have faced either indifference or sometimes hostility from many of them.

      1. No, not really. I grew up in an area that was about 15% S Asian and 15% E Asian. There were just a lot of us. My town in particular was actually a lot more E Asian.

        There was always joking racial banter. It very rarely got ugly, but even more rarely did it ever escalate beyond that.

        I hear in Singapore it can get nasty. But I haven’t really seen that type of stuff.

        1. East Asians are quite an interesting group. Where I live, most East Asians still wear masks outside. Hostility by a people who live such fearful existence just makes you laugh.

        2. @thewarlock

          That is good to hear brother. I dont know why such ignorant people like in the video you linked feel the need to behave so badly. Dont they have shame? AASI unites us with all East Eurasians.

          1. To be fair, “why don’t you learn Chinese part after being here for 7 years,” part I get a little bit.

            People should really learn the language of places they go to. English speakers in general are too arrogant about this. I hear Hindi speakers in S India are the same way.

          2. @warlock
            The vast community of blue collar Hindi belt migrants to the south learn the local languages very quickly. The older established business communities tend to also speak these languages flawlessly and on occasion better than certain highly anglophile locals. The friction is with recent migrants who are often the relatively well educated middle class types who work in MNCs. They have very portable skills and tend not to invest in a long term connection to a new place. They could be in Bangalore today and Hyderabad or Singapore tomorrow. I get their predicament, but despite their relatively fortunate circumstances, there’s a contrast of manners that rubs people the wrong way.

          3. @girmit

            They have very portable skills and tend not to invest in a long term connection to a new place. They could be in Bangalore today and Hyderabad or Singapore tomorrow. I get their predicament, but despite their relatively fortunate circumstances, there’s a contrast of manners that rubs people the wrong way.

            Speaking at least of Bangalore – the place is too cosmopolitan and you can easily get by with just English. These are the tradeoffs you make when you become an economic centre.

            Having said that, people who do end up staying for long eventually pick up the language and their kids do too. Assimilation is a multi-generation process.

            If you are a young person in your 20s and don’t know where you’ll be in two years’ time then it doesn’t make much sense to pick up Kannada.
            Fast forward 10 years, you’ve bought property and your kids go to school there, it’s quite likely you have started speaking the language. I know such people.

          4. @warlock
            Well guy is speaking to him in English the whole time then all of a sudden only pretends to speak Mandarin. Saying that he can’t understand, this is Taiwan speak Mandarin etc.

            Mandarin itself is a bit of an imposition in Taiwan and the local mutually unintelligible “Taiwanese” language is dying out.

            And then there is the question of Austronesian “native Taiwanese” languages which have a few dozen speakers each and are almost dead.

            It is what it is.

            Language is primarily a means of communication and will tend towards standardization over time.

  43. nice that kejriwal is becoming a normal politician :
    i) using police
    ii) selectively withdrawing power concession. soon the choice given will go away.
    iii) not supporting muslims!!
    iv) giving advertisements of delhi govt. in places where it hardly matters like bangalore etc.
    he will turn out to be the biggest disappointment of the middle classes after rajiv gandhi.

  44. Anurag Kashyap on Gangs of Wasseypur, a decade later

    Interesting interview. This was a generation defining movie for people of my vintage.

    In the interview, Anurag Kashyap claims that he wanted to tell the political history of Bihar. And that the original movie 7 hours long but had to be cut down to 5.5 hours. I’d love to see the original unedited version once.


  45. The shameless degree of denial on part of muslims is pissing me off. whether it be of medieval past, or denial of armenian genocide which is what inspired hitler or total apathy towards non muslims forced due to partition. I believe one should give incentives and disincentives . If I belonged to a community that voted for partition, I would do my best to stand and speak for the rights of those who now suffer as a consequence of it. I would be morally be consumed by it. But there is very little if at all on part of Indian muslims in terms of introspection. If introspection does not come on its own, perhaps it can be elicited through incentives and disincentives and that might indeed lead to real peace. Real peace only happens if muslims will stand up for the rights of non muslims under muslim majority countries in a robust way. I dont believe that carrots only policy that has been applied thus far will bring any significant improvement. Jinnah’s hostage theory / nehru liaqat ali khan pact are as good grounds for people to start taking active interest. It is criminal that most Hindus too look the other way on the suffering of those on the other side that the great gandhi, nehru and congress abandoned. I wonder whether it is possible to sue congress for abetment to genocide and ethnic cleansing in how it left those people behind. This should become something of value to aspire for. A political call for people to stand up for. stand for the real people who are persecuted and subjected to genocide. And by doing so, we might actually build peace for all in Indian subcontinent.

    peace= introspection. Non introspection= hostility.

    1. I think the current BJP government has taken steps towards recognizing the Armenian genocide. There is still an Armenian community in Kolkata, who escaped during the original genocide perpetrated by the Turks.

  46. @thewarlock, @Qureshi

    Pakistani Di Caprio for you.



    “she accused Liaquat of forcing her to make adult videos to “send to people abroad” and locking her up for five days if she refused to do it. She also said he “forced her to appear before non-mehram men”. She also accused him of being impotent and consuming drugs.”

    Pakistani national character on display.

    1. Muhammad to Chisti, Jinnah to Imran puri quom ghatiya thi, hai, aur rahegi.

      1. This was expected. I won’t go into the age gap and power assymetry stuff again. It’s been discussed.

    2. 11.5 crore Rs was the Haq Mehr, that she will have to return if she initiates the divorce.. only way she gets to keep that is if she proves he was abusive to her.. So lot of money at stake here, she will say whatever to get this amount. I won’t be surprised if Amir Liaqut has already lined up his 4th new wife.

  47. The reddit sub for Western classical music has 1.4 million followers.
    The sub for Indian classical music has 4000 followers.

    Western schools have done well to incorporate classical music into their core curriculum. I dont know if even well funded Indian schools offer any classes in Indian classical.

    1. @Vikram

      This is a pigheaded way to compare. Why the eff would Indian classical music lovers head to Reddit and discuss technicalities in English? Go and check out the magazine circuit or the gana sabhas during the music season or the sales of classical music labels. It is quite vibrant. And one more…….

      Indian classical music is also far better linked to that modern instrument called Cinema. You will find a full composition in the middle of a major movie – completely mass scaling the reach of that performer.

      Western classical performers have not reached the level of this penetration into their societies. Hence the need for sensitisation from an young age.

  48. This tyrant Aurangzeb destroyed the most magnificent Hindu Temple of its time, the Dehra of Keshav Rai, because it hurt his ego to see something taller and more beautiful than the grandest mosque in India at the time. It was more than seven stories tall, with a very bright light shining at its peak. A European who observed the main sanctum of the temple even after its destruction stated that it was one of the few buildings in the East that a European architect could learn and take cues from. I have seen that it used arches and domes and spires beautifully. We have lost so much heritage and culture and beauty because of iconoclasts like Aurangzeb. I can only imagine what else existed in the past 500-1000 years that no longer exists. The temple that existed at Mathura before Turkic invasion and destruction was also supposed to be grander than anything one could imagine, and the Kanishkaa Stupa comes to mind as another example in the past, tallest building ever made in ancient time. We must keep digging and find more about our past brothers.

    1. stop digging and caring for monuments lost and care for those left behind. people before buildings and past.

  49. https://livewire.thewire.in/personal/dont-call-me-a-hindu/

    “ That’s when I lost it: “Don’t call me a Hindu! I don’t want to identify myself with a religion which is terrorising people across the country, whose members are murderers, criminals and bullies! What peaceful history are you talking about? For the longest time, we Brahmins – whom you refer to as priestly, godly and knowledgeable – have supported and sustained the most oppressive system of social stratification in the world – the caste system – and ill-treated, subjugated and enslaved entire generations of our own fellow citizens. We still continue to exploit them and you are saying we are peaceful? How hypocritical is that?”

    Naitri Derasari is a second-year graduate student pursuing B.A in psychology and uses writing as her means of coping mechanism.

      1. It took 3 years from 2016-2019 the last time around. I think it would be quicker this time.

  50. decline of desi tamil influence in delhi is fairly steep. we don’t see likes of
    c. subramanian, s.shivaraman, m.s.swaminathan any more. yes, there are a couple of nri economists, but real power wielders are missing. mani iyer is perhaps the last of this gang, but he is hardly a tambi…!!
    is it because of brahmin flight ? or that tamil nadu is so inward looking that delhi hardly matters to it now. also lost political clout is adding to this. interesting…

  51. decline of desi tamil influence in delhi is fairly steep. we don’t see likes of
    c. subramanian, s.shivaraman, m.s.swaminathan any more. yes, there are a couple of nri economists, but real power wielders are missing. mani iyer is perhaps the last of this gang, but he is hardly a tambi…!!
    is it because of brahmin flight ? or that tamil nadu is so inward looking that delhi hardly matters to it now. also lost political clout is adding to this. interesting…

    1. Good riddance if u ask me.

      They always have over sized influence , much like Bengali C.R.Park diaspora. Swamy is last of the lot.

    2. @Brown

      Strange comment…..clout of the Tamil professional class is peaking with 2 out of the 5 member CCS being Tamilians (Jaishankar & NS).

      Mercantile/political power also has manifested itself – you can see some of the FTAs focus on industries – protectionism rules for auto and chemicals which are traditionally strengths for TN.

      What you are actually missing is noise – after the demise of LTTE, political heat has visibly gone down. Instead there is a more fruitful and quieter dynamic.

      This is a bit surprising, not many know it- 2 of the top 3 richest men in India speak Tamil fluently. By effort and design, the Bengaluru-Chennai corridor will become the “Blue Banana” of South Asia.

      Careful political articulation and stability of the modern “Thambis” are definitely one of the ingredients. You are seeing the rise of a new Empire – a modern Vijayanagara/Chola gandabirunda!

      1. nice observations: few points:
        1. jaishankar and nirmala are probably not considered ‘real’ tamils by the ruling dravidians as they are brahmins. so far they have not been owned up as yet.
        2. considering the constant anti hindi, anti north indian stance of the ruling elite in tamil nadu, will ordinary northies move voluntarily there for working?
        3. the chennai- bangalore corridor should also give some thing to bangalore. if it is seen as some thing which helps only chennai, there will be push back from bangalore.

        1. @Brown

          Most of what you say makes sense.

          Bangalore and Chennai are symbiotic. Bangalore needs a port and the hinterland ( literally on TN border). Chennai needs a global managerial class within 1 hour of flight time.

          This Dyad is a total winner – have automotive, unicorns, IT, chemicals, AI, medical tourism and hard research in their portfolio.

      2. Nirmala and Jaishankar are proof Gujju bhais can’t crack TN. They are from the wrong caste, opportunistic entrants into politics (no real commitment), they are (like Venkaiah before them) ‘token Madraasis’ who can’t even win one LS seat but BJP needs to appear ‘pan India’. Had Sushma-Jaitley-Parriker lived or Gadkari-Shivraj-Fadnavis been more ambitious Nirmala+Jaishankar had no place in the CCS.

        Tejasvi is the only Madrassi who can hope to become PM. May God save India from Madraasi-Mallu-Bengali Brahmins.

        1. U are too kind for considering Nirmala and Jaishankar LS leaders. They wont win election if it was held in their own house.

          I dont think anyone can save India. We are cursed with overdose of talkative-thinker castes within the whole mercantile-martial caste matrix. So the opposite of what Pakistan suffers. There, folks first do something stupid and then realize. Here, in India, we bore folks to death by overanalyzing.

        2. @Bhimrao

          NS and JS are Modi picks. He knows who delivers the goods.

          Foreign policy and the Economy cannot be left to political leaders from the Gangetic Areas. Most of them are morons who peddle socialist shit and subservient attitudes. Only chads make empires.

          One of the serious deficiencies of the Indian model is that it elevates leaders from weak, anemic, underperforming areas that only know how to spend rent.

          For me, the current admin is stuffed with administrators from West and South India who know their job.

          1. “NS and JS are Modi picks. He knows who delivers the goods.”

            NS is a liability. JS’s job is not that hard to begin with.

            “Foreign policy and the Economy cannot be left to political leaders from the Gangetic Areas. Most of them are morons who peddle socialist shit and subservient attitudes. Only chads make empires.”

            NS and JS are not even ‘political leaders’. Jaitley and Sushma would disagree with ‘socialist shit and subservient attitudes’.

            “One of the serious deficiencies of the Indian model is that it elevates leaders from weak, anemic, underperforming areas that only know how to spend rent.”

            Other deficiency is unnecessarily sucking up to people who don’t vote BJP in the first place. Then these folks (Tamils, Mallus, and Bengalis) will milk their own party and the national party.

            “For me, the current admin is stuffed with administrators from West and South India who know their job.”

            Leaders from West and their ‘yes boss’ secretaries from the South.


            Again, I have no problem with folks from anywhere in India to rise to the top. I only have problem with 10-D chess Gujju bhais play rewarding good for nothing (politically) groups over ones who have actually voted for them. BJP will never win TN. NS and JS are not committed lifelong leaders (like Annamalai or Simha or Tejasvi). NS is not even talented or good at her job.


          2. There is not much of 10-D chess happening. Both the finance and external affairs are being handled from PMO. Both Jaishakar and Nirmala are , as u said, secretaries. They in this case just happened to be Tamils. If not these posts, as u described, ‘good for nothing (politically) groups’ would have been handed animal husbandry or some shit dept, just for the sake of political representation.

            Contrary to what it seems, post 2020s , the BJP is rewarding ‘folks who voted for it’. It used to throw money in TN (to prop up AIADMK) and political capital in Bengal (CAA ). But check how recently it has curbed its excess. On resources spent, we still get the bulk of central taxes etc.

            The era of expansion is over. The era of consolidation is in.

  52. “Shiva Ji says:
    April 10, 2022 at 8:45 am
    you never forget to remind us that you cluster with SI brahmins.”

    Responding to this from Gujurati Genetics thread.

    Um dude because I do. It gives a relation on the cline. If you see my results on Harrapa, legit the first bunch of things are those groups. There is nothing special about it.
    I also consistently mention my YDNA is H and mtDNA is K1a. It’s accurate. That’s why I do it.

    But if you want to make implicatory remarks like the one you just made go right ahead. It shows more about you than anyone else.

  53. Sri Lanka is melting down in chaos. MLAs are getting killed and the PM resigned. Meanwhile in Pakistan, the new PM is calling IK a combination of Mir Jaffer and Hitler. Openly threatening IK. Given IK’s devoted following, the potential for civil unrest is very real if Establishment take strong action against him.

    Whatever problems India (and Bangladesh) may have, they are islands of stability in a stormy sea.

  54. https://theprint.in/50-word-edit/punjab-cant-let-usual-suspects-light-fire-again-state-centre-must-work-together/949916/

    as feared, aap’s win in punjab hs opened the way for’ usual suspects’. shekar gupta laments that state and centre are at fighting each other. if the state govt. does not cooperate with centre, it should either be dismissed or army should be called out to control the situation in the beginning. i am sure courts will have no other coice than to accept this.

    also the remit of b s f was extended to 50 kms width. looks like it is not very effective.

    1. People always argued with me about Khalistani threat. I keep warning not to down play it. It is a minority but an extremely steadfast one, armed to the teeth with ISI weapons and NRI money.

      Biradri ethonosupremacy and Hindu hatred runs deep.

  55. https://www.outlookindia.com/national/historians-deny-bjp-mp-diya-kumari-s-claim-on-taj-mahal-cite-documents-as-proof-news-196317
    what is not denied is that taj was earlier a haveli of the rajputs. this was never told to us. there are sure to be some shrines there in the original haveli which were not removed.
    i feel that there is nothing in the 22 rooms which are ‘locked’ , otherwise some retired pande, mishra or sharma of the archaeological survey of india would have blurted out.
    or may be there is something???!!!….

  56. There is a whole sub culture of NI Brahmin and Thakur Twitter users (trads?) that makes up imagined stories of Brahmin/Rajput historical greatness and strength of character. Self congratulates. Writes BS about how their group had done fala dhikana… makes up nonsense about rituals and tries to appear knowledgeable by throwing ‘dharmic’ jargon.

    This is our Bharat rising. Self respect bruh! LoL.

    Abhi kamandal se maarenge shraap Sharma ji sab dhuan dhuan ho jaaenge. Jaante nahi ho paanch pushton ke chapraasi hain.

    Frankislegend maharaj ki ragon mein Surya vansh ka khoon behta hai. Issiliye dalali karte hain stocks ki.

    1. These Trads are full of hatred like Wokes. They are a sad lot. They both hse and hominem against me so all the same lol

    1. I don’t think even the Prithiviraj Raso (on which the movie is based) terms it as a victory. It just gives a fanciful ending to the whole thing.

      1. Padmavat was a good movie while Paanipat flopped. Could be just a beard thing, wherever the righteous noble protagonist has a proper beard, he looks the part…

        1. Neither were good. When it comes to story lines, 90% of bollywood is awful. 90% of what is good is copied. 1% is good and original.

        2. One movie which was uncharacteristically good was Tanhaji. It was small in scope, and wasn’t wayward, and delivered.

          1. A movie on Kanhoji Angre would be awesome but with all the ships involved it is beyond India’s film making capability.

          2. ‘Quint ke ‘Meghnad Bose’ ke pet mein marod.’

            He can’t help it. He was born a Bengali.

    1. I used to not rate Rajnath. But he seems a better politician and administrator than that badbola Nagpuria named Gadkari..

    1. Araingang is basically engaging in “criticism as spectacle performance” for Whites. He should probably realise that Americans are among the few societies to write jurisprudence banning performance artists based on their skin colour. And whatever trends that are visible today in American showbiz are pendulum swings to the other side.

    2. The woman on the left would not be a minority in India. The woman on the right, most definitely will be an extreme minority since she is not even ethnically Indian so not sure if you can show 100 million women like those in India.

      1. I’m talking pure color. Both are extremes. Most India and are very much in between those. But you can find big minorities who are both their colors.

        And the average Indian is of course conventionally uglier than both of these top actresses. You can’t find a 100 million who look like either. They are top actresses for a reason and its not all acting ability…

      2. The woman on the Left is absolutely a minority in India. You have no idea what Indians look like, if you think the majority look like her, either feature or skin color wise. Feature wise of course most are not as pretty. Color wise, the vast majority are lighter. But maybe you believe typical Paki propaganda that average Paki is color of Benazir Bhutto and average Indian is the color of this woman. There is nothing wrong with either color of course. But these are not majority colors. Majority Indians are about the color range that I am, medium brown.

        1. //The woman on the Left is absolutely a minority in India. You have no idea what Indians look like, if you think the majority look like her, either feature or skin color wise. //

          The woman on the left has color palette + features that will only be found in India, Srilanka or perhaps Bangladesh. Makes sense because she is Tamil

          The woman on the right would fit right in Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Iran, West Asia or even Southern Europe more easily than in India. I have a female Greek colleague that looks eerily similar to Katrina Kaif. I doubt you would find any Greek colleagues that look exactly like Simone Ashley. One type can fit in entire Eurasian spectrum, the other is only Indian specific.

          //But maybe you believe typical Paki propaganda that average Paki is color of Benazir Bhutto and average Indian is the color of this woman.//

          I would say almost half of Pakistan (if not more) would be similar or fairer than Benazir.. Pashtun, Baluch, Hindkowan, Gilgati, Kashmiri even many Punjabis and Sindhis..

          This is not about color or features but you would be kidding if you equate the two.

          1. You’re delusional about coloring of Pakistanis. So I won’t debate further

            Indians have a range. And simone ashley is definitely on one extreme. Average color of Indians is mine. About 70% will be within a shade of mine

          2. “ I doubt you would find any Greek colleagues that look exactly like Simone Ashley.”

            Weird that you think only whites count as non-south asians.

            Simone Ashley can pass for any number of ethnic groups from Africa to Melanesia not just Indian.

            I would argue someone like Kumail Nanjiani is more stereotypically “Indian” looking. Wonder if he would get any roles back in the Pakistani entertainment industry.

            I don’t think he passes anywhere out side of South Asia.

          3. Sumit- can you post examples of the African ethnic groups that would look like her? She has a very South Indian/Srilankan look and this type of look is quite unique to India. I have never seen any Africans that come even close to these features unless they too are of Indian ancestry. My first impression was South India/Srilankan and after looking her up, it was spot on (Tamil).

        2. Hey Redemption/Statue would you like to join our South Asian genetics/anthropology community?

    3. I would put neither of these phenotypes as extreme. If anything, in the North and even Gujarat, you’d see a vast population with a similar tone to KK, particularly if they’ve had an indoor upbringing. If you include the true range of population and jati representation, Simone Ashley’s skin tone is probably typical of a significant % of penninsular Indians (controlling for indoor lifestyle), perhaps a third or more. The sun really does make a difference, my cousins and I who have either grown up in the west or in metro India are not even subtlely different in our complexion to our rural relatives, its practically on the other side of the scale.

    1. It is Jihad mindset. Radical Islam is the best propaganda tool humanity has created, perhaps outside of communism.

      If found guilty, killer must be immediately hanged for his heinous action.

    1. So many half truths and obfuscations.

      Pakistan produces one like him every few years. Ustad Nusrat ji, Rahat ji, Mehndi Hassan ji, Strings, Junoon, Jal… All (save the real masters) are quickly forgotten.

      His talks about (cough, cough) ‘South Asian’ (cough, cough) musical roots reminds me of his father’s inconclusive groveling in front of Indian or American audience.

    2. It’s an overrated song, not sure how this has blown up 100 million views. Started off slow, but recently picked up. I think could be because it became popular in India. Ali Sethi has done better before (Ranjish hi sahi)

      1. I feel Ali sethi overall is overrated. He is good. But Pakistan has produced better TBH.

      2. It’s an overrated song, not sure how this has blown up 100 million views.

        Indian YouTube is a monster. You’ll regularly see even random Haryanvi songs hitting 100 million views.

        Coke Studio is one of those things bros in Delhi will get really passionate about after a couple of pegs of whiskey. I got introduced to Pasoori by one such person at a party last night.

        I like some of the stuff from earlier seasons especially as indie music wasn’t as accessible back in the day. Haven’t followed lately.


        Also met a relatively young Kashmiri lady at the same party. She claims to speaks fluent Kashmiri and wears that ear thing married Pandit women wear. But has never been to Kashmir. Didn’t seem too political either.

        It’s interesting how people try to keep their culture alive when it’s so easy to just dissolve into the generic south Delhi lifestyle.

        1. Pasoori sounds like every other Bollywood -Punjabi song to my untrained ears, no idea why it blew up.

          I appreciate the production values in the new season but it seems to be moving away from the classical and folk focused fusion of the earlier seasons to a more radio friendly avatar. To me it’s a dilution and that’s sad, I find no replay value in these newer songs.

          Also, Fais Shafi! That guy is hilarious and has got serious flow. Good on him for getting featured in Coke studio. Arooj Aftab is another really cool (and very different) artiste that is receiving some good exposure. Any other interesting artistes that our Pakistani brethren think are worth sharing to a wider audience?

          1. It is way better and more classy than the standard Indian Punjabi song by Sidhu Moosewala or Mankirt Aulakh and the like.

            Reminds me of a Bollywood song from the 90s with the familiar catchy melody from Hindustani classical music, but in Punjabi instead of Hindi.

      3. @Sumit

        Sidhu Moosewala is basically Indian Rick Ross, only also a failed politician and perhaps even conventionally uglier to boot. Obese fake badass who makes songs with catchy beats and no substance.

    1. They will not be in power for long. A few weeks, maybe a couple of months. Elections are on the horizon and IK is set to win a landslide. And if he is ”stopped” by the establishment, it will be pandemonium against them.

      1. I doubt the Pakistani populace has the gumption to stand against the establishment. We Indians folks are meek lot. We talk a big game and then go bust. That has been our history TBH. That’s why our historical heroes are mostly pigmies who needed ballards to exaggerate their accomplishment. Our history is more of collaborators and trying to outdo other ethnicities by being best collaborators of the lot.

        1. Unfortunately, this is true, societies here have been so segregated and divided on the local village level between castes and biradaris that a violent united uprising was almost impossible. However this has changed quite a bit with penetration of social media and the smartphone. More than even 2018, TikTok has made inroads into rural crowd in the last 3-4 years that would usually decide the elections.. and now we are reaching a critical mass of rural dwellers that are also fed up of the status quo. When they see tiktok clips of IK telling them not to bow before anyone, it resonates, especially with the younger crowd who see their elders sucking up to the local strongman that is affiliated with these old status quo parties and power structures.

          Apart from Punjabis, I think everyone already is fed up of the establishment. And to be frank, the Pakistani establishment tries to not pick up a fight against a popular movement.. they usually retreat when public sentiment in Punjab is heavily against them. Ayub Khan and Musharraf, both stepped down when public sentiment was starting to turn against them in Punjab. This has happened now as well and Bajwa is under extreme pressure.. guy just wanted to retire peacefully in the US, but screwed up at the last moment. His meddling was disastrous for the slowly ailing economy that is now facing ruin again.. Hopefully PDM parties face the brunt of that backlash before elections are called.

          1. “ This has happened now as well and Bajwa is under extreme pressure.. guy just wanted to retire peacefully in the US, but screwed up at the last moment. “

            That’s what has mystified me all this while. Bajwa could have let the whole thing take its own course. Don’t see what he gained by edging out Imran. Everyone ( Imran , PDM ) had their reasons, apart from Bajwa. Or let’s just say he doesn’t seem to have a very compelling reason.

        2. ‘We Indians folks are meek lot.’

          {Pakistanis} ∉ {Indians}.


          All this drama is distraction from fundamental problems which Pakistanis don’t have the ability to fix.


  57. Hello Razib,

    What is your thoughts on recent ASI excavations at Rakhigarhi ? DNA wise i mean

  58. @Qureshi

    This former Afghan-NSA guy is back on the circuit swindling gora folks.


    Listening to them (save Amrullah Saleh) is like taking research advice from Elizabeth Holmes.


    Most military history is full of lies about men like Mohib. Folks like Erwin Rommel lied their way into ‘Desert fox’ stardom. Maybe one day Ghani and co. too will become ‘heroes’. The only problem is Afghanistan’s history is overcrowded at this point.


    Taliban are doing their thing. But not that bad actually for outsiders including Pakistanis. From India the place seems under control and stable on Afghan standards.


    There are these ‘Khorasani’ chutiya Tajik and Uzbek handles on twitter (not that different from the ‘Indus-man’ Pakistani chutiyas) advocating for partition of Afghanistan along ethnic lines.


    1. Afghanistan will eventually be partitioned, if not this decade, then in a few decades (more preferable). The place is ungovernable and there is no sense of national unity. Pasthun rulers created it and ruled it with an iron fist, and an odd genocide here or there. The same will continue until Iran or Russia decides to arm an ethnic insurgency against them. Until now, the Taliban are preferable to the Shias in Iran because of ISKP, but this may change anytime.

      A united Pasthun state on the border will be even more problematic for Pakistan, which is why it’s preferable that Afghanistan stays united for the next 25 years at the very least. After that, Pakistan’s roots in FATA will be deep enough that it can be confident in dealing with any Pasthun country to the West, and probable amalgamate it eventually within it.

      Amrullah Saleh, Ghani, Sadat etc are not important anymore, as they have no credibility. The previous Afghan government was always seen as American puppet, and they and anyone involved are now forgotten like a bad smell. Maybe warlords lik Massoud and Dostum are relevant but all others are irrelevant.

      1. “Pakistan’s roots in FATA will be deep enough that it can be confident in dealing with any Pasthun country to the West, and probable amalgamate it eventually within it”

        Interesting that you say so, any evidence for a gradual trend in this direction? Pakistan seems to be quite uniformly hated or looked down upon by Afghans as far as I’ve seen.

        1. We hardly hear much about Pakistani pathans , as the discourse on afghans is dominated by Afghanistanis and anti state/army pakistan pathans like Ali wazir etc. Though Pakistani Pathans today form the majority of all Pashtuns. Larger than what Afghanistan has.

          So I would not dismiss quereshi view outright.

        2. Afghans are also not a monolith, but let’s look at Afghan Pasthuns (about 40% of the population).. their main issue is that they do not accept the Durand Line for nationalistic reasons because it divides the Pasthun populated areas right down the middle. Afghanistan in their mind is a Pasthun state formed by a Pasthun king, and therefore it cannot exclude half of Pashtunistan. If this was 1947, this type of sentiment would have been quite common in Pakistani controlled Pashtun areas as well, but not really anymore since PakPasthuns are more or less well represented in the state and enjoy lot of privileges, state has deep roots, they are 3 times in numbers, and their economic and cultural output is strong. Without Pak Pasthuns, there is no Pakistan left since Sindh is quite nationalist.. Here is a pew survey for example, from 2009


          It also helps that Afghanistan is a failed state, is entirely dependent on Pakistan or Iran because its landlocked and many Afghans would rather come and live in Pakistan (the Pasthuns at least). The hate is amplified online though as most of Afghan diaspora blames Pakistan for Afghanistan’s ills, forgetting the fact that it was their own leaders that overthrew the monarch or got chummy with the Soviets and caused the destruction of their country. The Afghan diaspora is never going to return to the country, most don’t even speak local Afghan languages now and their opinion is therefore of little consequence.

  59. India projected to be the fastest growing major economy in 2022 by IMF.

    I think more a factor of being the unwitting beneficiary of several global trends rather than anything special the Modi government did.

    If I am being charitable they have kept things fairly stable and prevented things going to shit, which sort of counts as ‘special’ given the regional and historical context.

    And they deserve some credit for schemes like setting up banking and identity infrastructure for poor people which was utilized during covid to send direct transfers of aid, rather than running it through several layers of corruption where much of it would be siphoned off before getting to its intended recipient.

    1. With how much of a mess it is to govern. Hard to do better than they did. They known when to hold back and show restraint too.

  60. good win for indian men’s badminton team. mostly south indian, but no dravidians!!

          1. Yeah weird. They are Dravidians then, even by the anti Brahmin standards of staunch dravidianists

          1. others like slovakians, serbians are optional. it is a total no no for the western ukrainians.
            as i said earlier, i am yet to meet a kannadiga, telegu or a malayali claiming to be a dravidian. similarly iyers and iyengars from tamil nadu.

    1. Economist, NYT, WaPo… are just noise at this point. They had a sweet spot for about 15 years when the internet made them accessible to first generation of English speaking Indians. Now the window has passed. No one cares, they have to resort to ever shriller-louder noise to be heard.

      Think of them like first gen Gujju-Punjabi folks running motels in th US being received with reverence and awe when visiting India in 80s-90s. Now no one gives a shit. There is a window for these ‘aura’ sort of things.

      1. Your comments have grown in nuance and sophistication. I mean that genuinely. I like reading your stuff more and more. Good work

  61. “Bharat is a union of states, that is the line of the constitution. India is not described as a nation, it is described as a union of States meaning the people of India have come together to form a union”, Sh.
    @RahulGandhi Ji at Udaipur.


    Did he mistake Mewar for ‘muh-culture, muh-region’ Mallu-Madraasi-land?

    BJP will win again in 2024.

    1. BJP might win, but not because of rahul”s whole “union of state” speeches. Actually it’s a more shrewd move than one thinks.

      In my view Indian regions are already Divided b/w regionalists ( who believe in union of states , like Bengal , Tamil, Kerala etc ) and Indian-ists ( like North and West India. So he is appealing to his vote base. He has anyhow given up the latter, so might as well (try to ) consolidate his gains.

      1. Other than Kerala, Congress has no chance of taking the ‘regionalist’ states. Saying such things in Rajasthan is not going to win him love.

        To me Gujrat is nothing but coastal Rajasthan. Gujarati trading castes are nothing but apprentices of Marwaris. And so on…

        btw I also think that Mathura-Agra Braj is also Rajasthan.

        Had RSS not been born in Nagpur, something similar would have been born in Greater Rajasthan (i.e. Rajasthan + Bundel + Gujrat+Braj)

        I don’t see such talk winning any love in Mewar which Congress actually rules.

        I explain the reason for no regional political parties in Rajasthan is that the former kings have become leaders and now try (successfully) to rule the whole country from Delhi. Plus Rajasthani money is deployed across the country. Rajasthan is like the Karnataka of the north.

        1. Very accurate for merchant castes. But the peasantry is different in both places, as are the elites. Warrior caste power is much greater in Rajasthan. Brahmins are relatively sidelined in both places compared to UP+Bihar.

          1. Bhimrao and Saurav:
            [[I thought of a Gujju-Rajasthani RSS because of the social work (on caste lines) their folks do. Sangh pariwar does somewhat similar function (schools, dharmshala for the sick,…) in the rest of the country.]]
            This is true. I grew up thinking this type of organization was the norm, and am therefore surprised at the lack of similar set ups in the rest of the country (particularly North and East).
            On a somewhat related note, I am always amazed at the lack of grandeur /scale of supposedly super sacred Hindu temples in the east, North and sometimes in the South. This is of course excepting the many, many grand historic temple complexes in these areas. It just shows a lack of organization, collective effort etc. Not matter how poor a region is, it shouldn’t be hard to collect 50 crore (in today’s money) to renovate a temple that is supposedly super sacred and important, given the size of the Hindu population.

            [[Marwaris contribute the most for upkeep of Hindu institutions, have a pan India outlook. Gujjus seem to be narrow-minded and regional. Everyone reveres the Narayana temple built by Birlas, buys them goodwill and respect.]]
            Marwaris tend to be more free with their money than Gujaratis, that’s for sure. However, the other factor is that Gujarati charity in the 20th century was concentrated in the West (Gujarat, Maharashtra, Mumbai) and was of a more modern character (Sarabhais of Ahmedabad played a large role in building many modern science and management institutions for example).

            [But who can ever take Gujjus seriously when they say Ghanshyam Pande is lord Narayana’s avatar. Other cases of Gujju eccentricity include folks like Dada Bhagwan,…]
            These are both Patel movements, and not based in the Bania/Brahmin classes. I don’t take the Swaminaryan claims about Ghanshyam Pande (from Ayodhya) seriously but the sect a played a great role in organizing the Patidars/Kolis, elevating their status through Sanskritization and vegetarianism (a must in Gujarat for any caste to be considered relatively upper), and helping them organize into an economic force. They have done a lot of good for Patels.
            Dada Bhagwan is a neo Jain-Vaishnav fusion cult started by a Patel.Ironically they are sort of converting some Patels to their flavor of Jainism (their mantra = Navkar mantra followed by a line each for Vasudev and Shiv) , and have also attracted a lot of Jain converts (to the chagrin of the more conservative Jains)..I am surprised you know of them – didn’t think they were known outside of Gujarat.

            [[Over time everyone will get swallowed by a wave of Bansal-Gupta-Agarwal-Goels from the North.]]
            All sort of Marwari/Rajasthani even if they are now UP, Punjab or Delhi based :). Will be interesting to see how these Agrawal/Guptas dominate vs. other ambitious castes (Khatris, Tam/Southern Brahms etc).

            [[I agree that Gujarat in retrospect, could have had a RSS of its own, but during the time period we are talking about, Gujarat already had its own Hindu leader. His name was Gandhi.]]
            Good point.

            [[Anyhow in today’s timeline any Hindu organization/leader can sprout anywhere in the North/West region (parts of it u are already seeing) since its necessary homogenous enough in ‘Hindu-ness’. Modi is the biggest benefactor, being a Gujju and tallest leader in UP.]]
            Maharashtra is kinda unique in that it is not Southern/Bengali like, nor is it clear-cut Gujarat like.

          2. “I am always amazed at the lack of grandeur /scale of supposedly super sacred Hindu temples in … super sacred and important, given the size of the Hindu population.”

            On their pilgrimage to Dwarka (Dwarkadhish being our kul-devata) my parents were irritated by Gujju organizational acumen in Gujju temples. The Dhvaja sponsorship of Dwarkadhish is booked for the next 5 years even when it gets changed multiple (4?) times daily. My mother said these (Gujju) folks make castles out of mole hills and upsell even minor or made-up places of religious importance.

            Every people and place brings it’s own taste. I guess organizing them better is important but I do not favor changing their scale/size/architecture. Earlier I used to think outsiders should pour money and renovate/build temples. Now I am not sure. The ugliest NI temples are ones with tiles and concrete and marble ‘renovated’ by some local patron. NI Hindu has not developed good taste in architecture or appreciation for what makes good environment for puja. Should be kept away from touching historic temples. The prettiest ones are ones in the caves or made of lime mortar.

            UP-Bihar-Jharkhand brings a kind of rawness of bhakti that Gujjus and even Marathis can’t pull off. It might look silly and sweaty on the outside. But folks there are very very devoted. Think of the tens of thousands of kanwariyas walking to Baidyanath. Make it too glitzy it won’t work. A lot of charm is in how difficult it is.

        2. ‘Other than Kerala, Congress has no chance of taking the ‘regionalist’ states. ‘

          All the regionalist states are either ruled by Congress lackies (DMK, Commies, TMC) or they are in the opposition. The idea is to make it BJP-proof , who wins it is secondary, as they will anyhow come forward in an anti-BJP coalition.

          ‘Had RSS not been born in Nagpur, something similar would have been born in Greater Rajasthan’

          I doubt that. The Rajasthan belt is too mercantile-peasant caste combined to really come up with RSS, which had to have a Brahmin head (at least initially). No one would have followed the Marwaris, Patels, Jats or even Rajputs for a Hindu organization. They are good support system, but leading an Organization is a separate thing.

          The only two regions which had Brahmin pedigree was Maharashtra (because of Peshwas) and UP ( understandable). And they did birth two Hindu organization. RSS and Hindu Mahasabha. Its just that one outlasted the other.

          1. That is a good counter. I withdraw my point. Can’t see anyone willingly standing behind Rajputs. Jats and Patidars are not prestigious enough.

            What about Sharmas from eastern Rajasthan?

            With the right backing from Baniyas maybe they could have pulled it off?

            But maybe I am being too charitable in saying Sharmas of eastern Rajasthan when in fact Sharmas are of western UP.

          2. I mentioned a Rajasthani RSS because Rajasthan (and Gujrat) has the most number of Meena-chatravas, Marwari-dharmashala, Patidar-seva-aspatal type organisations. I thought maybe they could have organized themselves on Hindu lines too instead of caste lines.

            I have never seen a UP Kurmi/Ahir seva sangathan hospital. There are Brahmin-Thakur founder-named school, colleges but nowhere near the level of social organizations as in Rajasthan, Gujrat.


            I have stayed in such marwari dharmshala even in Jaigaon border crossing to Bhutan. Costed some Rs 5 per day for a clean dormitory and food. Marwaris are a very nice people. My father used to always stay in such dharmshalas when visiting Kota/Chittor/Jaipur/Udaipur/Surat…


          3. I doubt on either Sharma;s or Baniyas. Once in a blue moon u might have a leader who is a Punjabi (Arya Samaj) or a Bengali ( ISKON) etc who can pull off something, but wont last. Forget that , i doubt even Brahmins of any other region could have pulled it off.

            As i said, Marwari dharmshalas, or Patidar schools etc, are a good example of ‘support system’, but thats the extent of it.

          4. Saurav and Bhimrao:
            I am not really countering your point but Dayanand Saraswati was a proper Gujarati Brahmin from Saurashtra. Arya Samaj is a totally Punjabi org but the founder was anything but (by birth).

            While Rajasthan-Gujarat is really one large area, as reflected in culture, dressing, food, language, mores, religion (Jainism and Vaishnavism) they have really diverged in the last few centuries. Rajasthan is much more martial oriented with Rajput domination up to independence (and continuing legacy post) while Gujarat really undervalues martialness in favor of the mercantile ethos. Rajasthan has a section that is mercantile and highly successful but the preferred ethos of the state is Rajput oriented (honor, pride etc). Gujarat changed as it had no major Hindu rulers post 13th century (small kingdoms in Saurashtra notwithstanding), and was always coastal and outward looking.
            I agree that Rajasthan is an unlikely place for an RSS or any national org to be born, I am not sure the same applies to Gujarat. Gandhi and Modi (and to some extent Jinnah and Sardar Patel) were/are national leaders with few peers if any, and no other state has produced anywhere near the number of national leaders (Nehru/Gandhis are rootless, deracinated cosmopolitans so don’t count as Kashmiri or UPites and were just one family).
            Also you can’t have a successful movement without money and therefore mercantile backing. Arya Samaj (Khatris?), Congress (Marwari and Gujarati Banias), RSS (A lot of Gujarati/Marwari money), BJP (the same)..

          5. Like I said, I mistook similarity with same-ness. I thought of a Gujju-Rajasthani RSS because of the social work (on caste lines) their folks do. Sangh pariwar does somewhat similar function (schools, dharmshala for the sick,…) in the rest of the country.

            Marwaris contribute the most for upkeep of Hindu institutions, have a pan India outlook. Gujjus seem to be narrow-minded and regional. Everyone reveres the Narayana temple built by Birlas, buys them goodwill and respect. But who can ever take Gujjus seriously when they say Ghanshyam Pande is lord Narayana’s avatar. Other cases of Gujju eccentricity include folks like Dada Bhagwan,…

            Both coastal outlets of North India, Gujjus and Bengalis, produced many leaders and made oversized contributions.

            Over time everyone will get swallowed by a wave of Bansal-Gupta-Agarwal-Goels from the North.

          6. @Lurker

            I agree that Gujarat in retrospect, could have had a RSS of its own, but during the time period we are talking about, Gujarat already had its own Hindu leader. His name was Gandhi.

            Anyhow in today’s timeline any Hindu organization/leader can sprout anywhere in the North/West region (parts of it u are already seeing) since its necessary homogenous enough in ‘Hindu-ness’. Modi is the biggest benefactor, being a Gujju and tallest leader in UP.

  62. ab baba mil gaya.
    we were always told that the original shivaling which was hidden in a well was brought out and reinstalled in the present viswanath temple under the aegis of ahalya bai holkar.
    now that one more shivling has been found in a well inside the gyanvyapi mosque, all sort of questions arise.
    very messy indeed.

    1. https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/gyanvapi-mosque-dispute-kashi-vishwanath-temple-asi-7270802/

      ‘The Gyanvapi order combined with the Supreme Court’s willingness to entertain a plea challenging the Places of Worship Act (Special Provisions), 1991 is going to open another communal front. In the case of the Gyanvapi Mosque, there is no real dispute. It is widely accepted that parts of the Vishwanath temple were destroyed and its walls may have been raised on the plinth of the temple. One also does not have to deny that many Hindus experienced and have a consciousness of Aurungzeb’s reign as being characterised by religious bigotry. Historians can debate the context and the motives of Aurangzeb’s actions, and the complexity of his rule. But minimising the significance of his actions has always been a little historically incredible and politically disingenuous. If we rest the case for secularism in contemporary India on establishing Aurangzeb’s liberal credentials, then secularism will indeed be on rickety foundations. It will also legitimise Hindutva resting its case on Aurangzeb’s credentials.’

    2. words mean nothing, one speaks only after looking at real pictures and people of credibility checking it out.

    1. Pakistanis want to be Turks and Turks want to be European. Both groups are made for each other 😂

  63. Indians should be proud of their railways. One of the highest % of electrified network in the world. Canada for instance has 0 km of electrified railway. And lots of new metro and regional rail systems being constructed. The amount of projects over the last 2 decades mean that India has gained a lot of expertise in completing projects in a timely and cost wise manner. And because these projects are coordinated at a central level, the skills gained are transferable across cities. USA for instance has an extremely fragmented public transport systems meaning nothing is completed on time and is extremely over budget.

    There is also no desire to build anything new. A project like Texas Central Railway would have been completed long ago in India. Perhaps this comes down to India being a young and dynamic nation wanting to catchup to the West while the US is a tired old man, just trying to maintain what he has. The US did have this dynamism in the pre-WW2 era but its gone now.

    It’s safe to say that only Japan, Europe and China have better railways and given the extent of investment, India should be able to catch up in 2 decades.

  64. https://www.change.org/p/assaults-at-schools-protect-the-victim/c


    Please sign petition. This type of shit happened to me before too.

    My situation, it wasn’t racial. I was just a nerdy awkward, kid. But this type of stuff sucks. You have to teach kids defend themselves but also bring public attention to inadequate and biased action by the schools.

    My Dad def tried to teach me self defense. He grew up in some rough N Delhi schools. But I was unfortunately timid too long. Thankfully, I finally learned.

  65. https://www.change.org/p/assaults-at-schools-protect-the-victim/c

    Please sign petition. Indian American assaulted in school and punished more than assailant.

    Yes, I still believe teaching self defense is priority #1. But institutions must also be held accountable.

    I was a small, weak, and awkward kid and got my ass beat plenty. My Dad tried to teach me self defense over and over again. He went to some pretty rough schools in N Delhi, as a kid. But I was too timid for too long. Thankfully, I finally learned.

    Regardless, you have to hold schools accountable for this type of unfair treatment.

    Not sure what racial angle is. For my situation, it wasn’t racial. I was just a nerd who hit puberty way late, so I was really small for my age.

  66. I see too many hindutva hotheads after recent episode. One has to win first and fight if necessary, not fight and gamble on victory. We need to reach where china is. And then one can elicit introspection. ‘Hide your strength, bide your time’. one can begin with a law similar to holocaust denial for starts if necessary right now. I am worried about godse syndrome taking over. he turned gandhi into a martyr when in fact he would have lost credibility had he lived longer .

  67. hardik patel gone. in a way good for congress. they cannot handle these types of ‘in hurry’ characters. mamata left. sidhu could not get set. siddaramiah, in spite of being a full term c m is still not a full congress man as yet.
    life a slow grind in congress. they will wait. it is only its supporters like vir sangvi, shekar gupta, n d t v , rajdeep are in a hurry.

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