277 thoughts on “Open Thread – 08/12/2022 – Brown Pundits”

  1. @Dathang

    Sports gene wise, what does GWAS show for different Indian ancestral groups? Like if you were an Indian sports committee chairman, how would you invest funds and into which sports, if genetics is all you were looking at

    1. I am not aware about the GWAS stuff on sports across populations. If I were a chairman, I would take random cohorts from various places and test them on various athletic attributes. People are likely not the same everywhere. Some places will turn up with better marathoners, some/others with better long/high jumpers, some/others better at other track and field events, some/others at boxing etc. etc. Based on this, if the p-value is significant over a few years of testing at least, I would weigh allocation of resources for the respective sports. For example, places proven to have more potential for 3,000 meters will get a certain higher percentage of funds for the sport in comparison to the average place.

      How well off people are, and how much effort is directed to sports in a place a priori might affect this like Jharkhand putting more effort than Bihar but a sports chairman can only do much.

      1. rajiv gandhi tried it, by encouraging north eastern tribals to archery, siddis of karnataka for long distance running. things didn’t work out. it was a novel effort.

        1. It always saddens me that Gujarat’s only has ever produced a single medalist, Raj Bhavsar, and he did not grow up in Gujarat. I definitely envy the greater sports emphasis in other cultures

          1. Interesting. They are also present in Gujarat. Kolis and Kunbis span both places too. Patels, patios, marathas, etc are genetically similar

          2. Another great Guju descent gymnast is Akash Modi of Stanford. Almost made US Olympic squad.

          3. Raj Bhavsar is not only a Gujarati but also a Jain. From a Times of India article on him: “Raj is the son of Jyotindra and Surekha Bhavsar and has been raised as a devout Jain in Houston”

            And it seems Akash Modi is a cousin of Raj Bhavsar, so possibly a Jain too. “… If he makes the Olympic team, he will carry on a family legacy following his second cousin Raj Bhavsar. ..”

            Gujarati and Jain Olympians. Culture/Nurture matters.

        2. Sides are Bantu descended aren’t they? Should have tested for a range of different thing in many groups instead of lining people with a couple of sports without testing. Which is the important part- the testing, investment without knowledge is a shot in the dark.

  2. Unrelated a Friday night comment

    Mano Dibango; Soul makkosa. I think some of the first African music I heard (and Osi Bisa). Courtesy of the American Center, then at Galle Face Court.
    I had been a long time member of the British Council Library, then in Colpetty. Had been member since the age of ten and possibly below. That was my fathers doing, he enticed me by taking me once or twice and then showing me how to get there by train from koralawella. (about 12 km away00

    Anyway around age 13 or so (1974ish) heard about the Amerrican center. So walked,, about a km. Apparently could not become a member till I was 16. A disappointed me who was leaving was told by this ‘”old” gent a kind of minor employee said that i could listen to records and read magazines without becoming a member.
    And thats what I did,, listen to records and read magazines every I came to get //return books at BC.

    So one of the first, I heard. Mano Dibango; Soul Makkosa.
    Hopefully this Link works,

    1. Is track and field big in Sri Lanka? Very happy to see a S Asian from there break 10 second barrier

      1. thanks warlock..
        Is track and field big in Sri Lanka? Very happy to see a S Asian from there break 10 second barrier

        Dont know re track and field being big in SL.
        That or else is not a big issue for me/

        In US when I was fat an overweight (200 lbs and 5’4′) I beat my friend an African American Marathon runner on a short 25 meter run

        Wsrlock. I agree much untapped potential. Jeebus, SL is just 22 million compared to India’s 1billion plus.

  3. Hey, some questions to Razib (and others)

    – Is there strong casteist bias among non Indian South Asian Muslims (born and raised in the west) in the west?

    – Has any of you ever experienced subtle casteist behavior from fellow South Asians in the west?

    – Is the south asian community in the west very strict towards casteism in the west?

    – What are your takes on a study published some weeks ago found Anatolian farmer ancestry in IVCp contradicting Shinde et al that found no Anatolian farmer ancestry in IVCp?

    – Does it mean Iran_Chl migrated to South Asia in multiple waves, if IVCp really had Anatolian ancestry? Or this ancestry came from Iran_n not Iran_Chl?

    – What modern population of South Asia is closest to Rakhigarhi woman? As per Shinde et al, she had 73% Iranian related ancestry. Is that population, Gujar or Baloch?

    – Were Iran_N or Iran_hg present in South India during middle bronze age (2500-3500 BCE)?

    – As per your estimate, what would have been population size of Iran_n/hg and steppe pastoralists when they migrated to South Asia? What about the population size of South Asian_hg?

    1. In hindsight there are were 2 or 3 subtle instances I can recall where Indian fobs subtly asked me (like getting asked my last name at a weird time). But this is very minors and I never felt discriminated because of it.

      By contrast my race is written on my face and I have been openly mocked for looking Muslim / Hindu / Indian etc multiple times. And countless subtle jibes. One manager at a previous role joked about me being a rapist during the gang rape publicity in India. I am to an extent perceived as a perpetual foreigner no matter the level of assimilation. This racial stuff is also not THAT big of a deal, but it’s several orders of magnitude more prevalent and severe than caste.

      So I am 100000x more concerned about non-Indian / non-Hindu caste Karens, acting from ignorance or bad faith, using caste stuff as a tool for oppressing the uppity Brown.

    2. >– What are your takes on a study published some weeks ago found Anatolian farmer ancestry in IVCp contradicting Shinde et al that found no Anatolian farmer ancestry in IVCp?

      Do tell more about it. I have not heard of it.

    3. – What modern population of South Asia is closest to Rakhigarhi woman? As per Shinde et al, she had 73% Iranian related ancestry. Is that population, Gujar or Baloch?

      Check her GEDmatch number. I believe it is TP7757435. Some guy posted a harappaworld breakdown on reddit, check it out.

      >– Were Iran_N or Iran_hg present in South India during middle bronze age (2500-3500 BCE)?

      Iran_N/HG weren’t present in unadmixed forms in all likelihood. But maybe, a population with that ancestry could have migrated. Do I think it did in that time frame? I am not sure, I suspect that the first migration into South India proper of a population carrying that Iran ancestry would have started maybe 3,000 BC at most. To confirm or deny this, you’d need samples older than 3,000 BC from deep in South India like Karnataka, Telangana, Adhra and regions south of it.

        1. Meat eating Jains. Probably didn’t have plenty of other aspects of the religion as well.

          1. Many religions at the time would have been different so ‘most polytheist faiths’ covers a very very broad territory. To zoom in, try and see the distinctions within India. For example, most ivc related goddess-like figurines are from the western zone, possibly from middle eastern influence. So the eastern ivc religion could be more truly native.

        2. The Rakhigarhi woman’s harappaworld breakdown is eerily similar to mine. Same S Indian (mid 40s), NE Euro + Caucasian( low tens), same NE Asian even (3% range, most Indians score lower on this). My Baloch is a couple ppt lower but also in the mid 30s, the difference being made up for mostly by higher SW Asian.

          If they find male IVC samples I suspect R2a will be a major haplogroup if not the dominant one

          Move away Dravidians, MaruGurjars are the true sons of IVC

    4. No brown has ever asked or cared my caste. I grew up in a brown ethno-suburb on the West Coast.

      A few Whites have made fun of me for being Hindu, some others have thought I was Muslim and made fun of me for that.

  4. 1. No. There isnt even casteist bias among Hindus that is of any notable significance barring some very exceptional cases. This is all a DEI money scheme and power grab.
    2. Yes. Some Jats and Patels. But they form a minority within a minority. The strictest test is endogamy. Those communities pass it the best.
    3. Interesting finding. Need more samples
    4. Possibly
    5. It doesn’t matter too much. She is one individual roughly in the middle of a cline. Indus valley had a cline from 50% aasi to 0% aasi and the rest being Iran Mesolithic HG related. Closest people to Indus Valley are those who have 0 steppe and fall somewhere on the cline. S Indian mid castes, Patels, and Toda are closest. Baloch and Gujar have too much steppe
    6. Yes
    7. Hard to say but substantial enough to make a genetic impact, so numbers can be disparate but not exceedingly so.

    1. “2. Yes. Some Jats and Patels. But they form a minority within a minority. The strictest test is endogamy. Those communities pass it the best.”

      TamBrahms are pretty bad too. TelBrahms don’t seem as bad by comparison though.

      Jatts and Patels get a bad wrap for a bit uncouth and on the nose with their jaativaad. This sort of performative, ritual status-establishing aggression is common among landed Shudras and Kshatriyas. It doesn’t mean that Brahmins and Baniyas are less casteist, they just don’t need to deal with the lowers at the ground level on a day-to-day basis in quite the same way.

      1. There is a huge number of them on reddit. They love genetics subreddits, as expected lol.

  5. Peggy Lee — Is That All There Is? 1969
    Pretty much sums up my philosophy of life, Is That All There Is. Maybe, might have thought different if I was tortured in some prison camp. Who knows, still got a couple of years to go.

    Peggy Lee (May 26, 1920 – January 21, 2002), born Norma Deloris Egstrom in Jamestown, North Dakota. Beautiful woman, Beautiful music, wrote her own songs, what more can I say.


  6. we are living through a crazy period. I guess once a civilization reaches its peak, it can waste away its resources , time, energy on nonsense. Humans are very good at nonsense. I want to fast forward the world by 150 yrs. I expect better things then.

  7. Scientists were able to sequence DNA from the Ganga Mesolithic sample. Hopefully that will be our first AASI sample. They were also able to get DNA from South India during the megalithic period (600-1000 BCE). The paper will come out soon.

    1. Which mesolithic group was it from Damdama? Also will the sample be published with re-checked radiocarbon dates?

  8. More on Sri Lanka’s high literacy rates before independence, even by 1921 the country had very high literacy rates. So this isnt a 1940s phenomenon. The British seem to somehow prioritized public schooling a lot more in Sri Lanka.

    “By 1921, within just 20 years, literacy rates among the island’s male population rose to 66 percent for Christians, 50 percent for Buddhists, 45 percent for Muslims, and 37 percent for Hindus. For women, 50 percent of Christians were literate, while literacy rates among Buddhist, Muslim, and Hindu women rose to 17 percent, 6 percent, and 10 percent, respectively. When independence was granted in 1948, Sri Lanka had 5,895 schools enrolling more than 1 million students. The nation’s literacy rate was 57.8 percent, the highest among both Great Britain’s colonies and Asian nations.”

    Read more: Sri Lanka – History Background – Percent, Tamil, Tamils, and Island – StateUniversity.com https://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1420/Sri-Lanka-HISTORY-BACKGROUND.html#ixzz7brYhdrM3

    1. Sri Lanka was always governed separately from India. Maybe the Brits who ran Sri Lanka cared more about education than the ones who ran India?

      1. Yes, this seems to be the case. I think Sri Lanka was a consolidated colony, it encompassed all the strategic and economic value for Britain in a single geographical space. India was different.

        Different regions in India were colonized for different reasons and were even governed differently. The coasts were important for trade and considered somewhat livable. The interior was not favored as much, apart from Punjab, and upper tracts of the Ganges basin.

    2. Vikram and HJ
      The Bits were not too interested in education for all. They (eg Royal College) or the Anglican Church (eg Trinity, S. Thomas) built elite schools to get Brown Sahibs to be secondary administrators.

      The big numbers were from
      a) Buddhist Temples/Pirivenas in rural villages that taught basic reading/writing and arithmetic
      b) The American Christian Missions and US Buddhist Theosophical Society.

      The American Mission were only allowed to operate in the North and East. Huge schools (see Jaffna College) and Hospitals were built. Many Tamils in Jaffna took advantage, got an education and converted. eg My great grandfather. By the next generation his eldest son was married to an American Missionary, Kitty Wood. Grandfathers brother was sent to the Maldives as the Brit Government agent. He and the wife started to translate the Bible into Divehi. Then he got yellow fever and died. The three children left for US. As they landed in US around 1905 all three were children were found to have TB (long ship journey) . All the children died. Wife came back to SL, rejected by family funded and ran an orphanage in the Hill Country.
      Note: The American mission activity was only in Jaffna Peninsula and in Batticoloa in the East. The rest of the huge swath of the Vanni remained untouched and even to this day is less well off than Jaffna or Batticoloa.

      So the Jaffna Tamils had a huge head start in English education and soon became, Doctors, Engineer and filled the clerical staff of the Brit Admin in then Ceylon Quite a few were recruited to Malaysia and served under the Brits as minor Administrators. Others went independently as lawyers and doctors as there was good money.

      Now to the US Buddhist Theosophical Society.
      The premier Buddhist schools were founded by them, eg Ananda, Nalanda, Visaka . European secular education, with Buddhist instruction.
      By 1935 there were 407,904 children, or 65%, receiving an education in Buddhist schools of which 229 were administered by the Theosophical Society. Even the BUDDHIST FLAG (1886) was designed by the TS. Wesak fullmoon day being declared a public holiday was also TS effort.

      ==========Links ============
      .If you get a chance read White Woman’s Other Burden, Kumari Jayawardena
      In The White Woman’s Other Burden, Kumari Jayawardena re-evaluates the Western women who lived and worked in South Asia during the period of British rule. She tells the stories of many well-known women, including Katherine Mayo, Helena Blavatsky, Annie Besant, Madeleine Slade, and Mirra Richard and highlights the stories of dozens of women whose names have been forgotten today. In the course of this telling, Jayawardena raises the issues of race, class, and gender which are part of current debates among feminists throughout the world..

      The Theosophists were for “education for all” as part of their creed of “Universal Brotherhood”. Olcott was dismayed that caste considerations were inhibiting the development of the Karavas, Salagamas and Durawas

      Inspired by Theosophists, the Buddhist Defense Committee, the Buddhist Theosophical Society and the Young Men’s Buddhist Association accommodated people from all castes.
      Swami Vivekananda was protege Theosophical Society
      Jaffna Tamil refuse to identify themselves with the wider Tamil community. In attempt to express their own identity in Malaysia, Jaffna Tamil have sought to distance themselves from Malaysia’s Indian Tamil community (one and a half million Tamil Indians from Southern India) along class lines.

  9. Mohammed Zubair is a Tamilian. He hails from a village near Thally, not far from Hosur and also close to the place where Rajaji (C Rajagopalachari) hailed from.

    I have my own doubts about his exact linguistic group. That place is a trijunction between Andhra, Karnataka and Tamilnadu where it is the usual norm to be linguistically fluid. It seems very probable that they are Dakhanis who immigrated recently from the Hyderabad region.

    Overall this corresponds with a trend where leading ideologues across the political spectrum are overwhelmingly concentrated within the economically dynamic regions of a nation.

    Across the non-political Right, ideologues like Sai Deepak are forming the crux for the next major thrust on the judiciary, the last institutional refuge for Gangetic secularism. While Islamist ideologues like Zubair are also driving globalization strategies using social media.

    Within the cultural space, the Telugu film industry is setting the benchmark for native expression on the big screen. It is close to occupying the space vacated by Bollywood (filled with Punjabis and the Gangetic Khans).

    The Gujarati focus on mercantilism has had the biggest effect on political patronage for money/trade networks such as UPI, India Stack and ONDC (the next big revolution).

    These continue to accelerate the trend of the Indian centre of gravity moving to the Western/Southern regions.

  10. The request for the Chinese ballistic missile- and satellite-tracking vessel Yuan Wang 5 to call at Hambantota Port for replenishments, which was deferred earlier, has now been granted.

    “Having considered all material in place, on August 13, 2022, the clearance to the Embassy of the People’s Republic of China was conveyed for the deferred arrival of the vessel from 16-22 August, 2022,” the statement read further.


    1. hmmm. IN ppl and parties will be advised to remember this episode the next time they feel the urge to help our neighbors.

  11. The indian matchmaking season 2 shows that indian americans generally dont care about caste even in the context of arranged marriages.

    1. Even the fob folks don’t care. I would guess there are 5 Indian guys to 1 Indian girl in any US STEM grad program. The competition is too stiff to care about caste.

  12. The village I live in, Eluwamkulama. 40% Muslim, 40% Sinhalese (mainly catholics) and 205 Tamil. Former border village, many here were killed by the LTTE terrorists.

    This is the dry zone of Sri Lsnka, which gets only 3 months of rain a year. 1500-2000mm /per year all in 3 months, just like Tamil Nadu. Lush and green because of the reservoirs built by the Sinhala Kings. This is a minor reservoir, does not get mention in history. 30,000 of these reservoirs all over the dry zone.

    Commentary in Tamil

    Mobike ride to eluvamkulama, reservoir spillway.

    Gangewadiya, about 7km from where I live.

    The River that borders my property.
    Video from nearby USD100/night hotel

  13. It is interesting that independent India’s greatest socialist leader was a baniya (Ram Manohar Lohia).

    I wonder what Saurav has to say on that.

    On a related note, it seems to me that baniyas started taking education quite seriously 20-30 years ago. In general, the baniya move towards the world of intellect has been more successful than the Brahmin move towards business.

    1. Banias are like jews in a some regards. One such regard is a penchant for intellectualism across the political spectrum. Hence, many looney leftists thought leaders are banias.

    2. @Prats
      I do not see any real Brahmin move towards business. A big reason for Bania success has been the JEE/NEET coaching industry centered near their home ground (in Kota). North Indian Baniyas can afford to send their children to coaching for 2-3 years for ~4-6 lakh rupees. Only the government servant bamans can
      do the same.

      1. I do not see any real Brahmin move towards business.

        I recently came across a stat that stated that almost 40% of all company board seats in India are held by Brahmins.

        A big reason for Bania success has been the JEE/NEET coaching industry centered near their home ground (in Kota).

        If you look at UPSC results, you would find a lot of Guptas and Jains too among the top rankers. This wasn’t the case till a few years ago.
        Just seems like a natural consequence of living in a knowledge economy. You gotta study to make the big bucks.

    3. @Prats

      I noted one another time that Lohia and JP have been the most influential Gangetic political thinkers who successfully peddled low brow socialism to the UP/Bihar masses. Both of them were educated in the West (Lohia – Germany, JP – USA) and brought back the worst economic philosophy possible!

      Together with Nehru’s influence, these gentlemen thoroughly discredited capitalism in the Gangetic hinterland.

  14. One of the best podcast episodes / documentaries about India that I have seen. “Vijayanagara – The Last Emperors of South India” from Fall of Civilizations podcast.


    Stunning visuals of Hampi. It’s 3 hours long.

    Starts with ancient / classical India, then the Delhi Sultanate, and then leads to the Vijayanagara Empire, its rise and fall. Didn’t agree with all of it, maybe some smudging when it comes to things like AIT and Islamic conquest, but all in all it is amazing.

  15. Sri Lanka should be punished for letting the Chinese spy ship dock. These beggars keep provoking India despite so much one sided goodwill for decades now.

    1. Sri Lanka should be punished for letting the Chinese spy ship dock. These beggars keep provoking India
      Sri Lankans, specially the Sinhalese know thats the general thinking among Indians. Sri Lankans should be nice little darkie Dalits who will roll over at India’s bidding.
      No question Sri Lankan are little darkie Dalits . However, we dont have 2,000+ years of higher varnas telling us we are stupid and only fit to clean shit. So we know how to play the game.

      So we now have China in our corner. I am sure they too think we are dumb little darkies. Thats fine, they can counter balance the Indians and both will fight to give us more goodies.

      1. It’s rich for you to play the race victim given the severity of Sinhala racism against Tamils. And yes, there are Sinhala supremacists who boast about their racial superiority vis-a-vis the SL Tamils and South Indians.

        But ultimately what you propose is a winning strategy for the Sinhala. India will never stop giving the Sinhala state anything and everything it wants. The tail that wags the dog.

      2. Lmao, bro , The Sinhalese Themselves are descended from Upper Caste Immigrants from Bengal, Tamil Nadu and Orissa. Whom are you fooling by saying we Sinhalese are Very egalitarian ???

    2. @Bhim

      Not our dog, not our fight…


      I am sympathetic to the Sri Lankans. But frankly the game of paying both sides, would not end well. Nepal tried it pretty recently, and India just started ignoring and stopped sending goodies, which brought the Nepalese to their senses, and they soon backed off on their whole border thing and cooled their bravado.

      1. @Saurav

        I am usually hands-off Sri Lanka camp, I have no beef with them other than this nuclear submarine and spy-ship business. This is them going too far and shows sheer malice and disrespect especially when we have done nothing to provoke them.

        Think about it, we pay these losers money to buy fuel and food to eat, and this is what we get in return. We did nothing to hurt them, didn’t fuck with elections, didn’t fuck with their lenders. Even in Nepal’s case it is 2 steps forward (for them) and 1 step back. And I consider Nepalese a far friendlier people than Sri Lankans. Nepalese made a unilateral map at the same time Pakistan made one, included territories they did not even have a claim over in the past. Even if Nepalese talk nice, the map remains. No velvet gloves for any of there folks, fuck them and bring their heel. India has interests, we will pursue them, let this be known.

        1. Our only interest from SL is that it ports are not used to spy/attack us, especially during war time. And the money we provide is sort of payment for that.

          Apart from that there is not much use of Indo-SL relations. Its better to keep a hands off approach. And if the Chinese are willing to pay money to just dock their submarine during a peace time situation, to boost their ego, then i think we shouldn’t begrudge SL fleecing the Chinese a bit.

          1. Jal mein rehkar magar se bair …

            I don’t think India will let Sri Lanka do this for long. This will have consequences. These things only escalate, and given how shameless, greedy and irresponsible these Sri Lankan losers are they will only use this exception as an excuse the next time it happens. Indian leniency is what got the port sold off to Chinese for 100 years. They knew it was a shitty project, yet they chose to be a sugar baby. I am fine with stupidity, everyone is stupid. But Sell to Arabs, sell to Russians, sell to Americans, sell to anyone other than the Chinese. These Chinese folks will colonize us all one day. But Sri Lankans are a petty scheming people their whole long term deal is to extract rent from their location i.e. trans-shipment from the ‘region’ i.e. India and tourism.

            If India is made to choose between safety of Madraas and vanity of SL, the decision is pretty clear.

  16. Video of woman and house in a very small village Okewela in the deep south.
    The woman had worked three years in Lebanon and also in Saudi.
    Apparently knows Arabic too.

    She the the guy was from Ukraine, though he did not understand.
    he is from Azerbaijan

    Main point, see the house she has built around 9:20 mins into video.
    Partially built.

    Another video of woman with running a small food place.
    Apparently her house had caught fire and she is in the process of building again.
    speaks functional English
    The jak fruit is young jak fruit

  17. Rushdie getting stabbed is so sad. It is so hard to keep a balanced view in such situations.

    One can argue-debate and what-not but the lasting solution is relentlessly attacking Islam like a sickness. In places like India the process is already on with the ex-muslim movement. China-Russia have their own ways. Westerners are the most creative of us all, I hope they know what they are doing.

    Muslim immigrants must be vetted and ones with extremist views must not be allowed in. If such steps are not taken there will eventually be riots for retribution like we see in India.

    1. The right response to Khomeini’s bounty on Rushdie would have been to declare a bounty on him in return. The British govt (I think Rushdie was a British citizen then) should have told Khomeini: “if Rushdie dies, so do you”. If leaders of countries want to behave like mob bosses, they should be treated as such.

    2. The reaction on social media from the Muslim world was sad and enraging. Many prominent accounts (and an endless sea of less prominent ones) were openly celebrating and adding more names to the kill list. Twitter made no efforts to clamp down on these overt death threats since the DNC / Left always looks the other way (and sometimes even encourages and justifies) when it comes to Islamic extremism.

  18. Happy Independence Day.
    Jai Hind.

    Something Telugu cinema should come up with is simple (i.e. excellent hindi lyrics), patriotic songs that can be played on 2, 15, and 26. Same old ‘Ae mere watan ke logon…’, ‘Vande mataram’ (Rehman), … have been playing for 20+ years now. Will win Telugu actors enormous goodwill in UP-Bihar, National days are a big deal in small towns and villages here where school-events are the only ‘entertainment’ in town.

      1. Mostly it is Punjabis because their language and manner of speech is high on exaggeration and hyperbole.

        (Dumb) Sikh Punjabis remember Khalsa-Raj and (Dumb) Muslim Punjabis think of their majority.

        Not the same in Bengal. Refugees from Bangladesh, especially folks in Siliguri-Assam, fucking hate Bangladeshi Muslims and say so openly.

  19. https://www.dawn.com/news/1704682/the-sad-story-of-the-rejection-of-science

    Pakistan sucks.

    India sucks but not at the same level. Even to whiners like myself India offers some carrots like a job at Google/Samsung/MS research in Hyd/Blr or at TIFR/IISc/ISI/(old)IITs, plenty of other top places like AMD/Intel/Nvidia/… in Blr.

    Can’t think of any reason why any talented Pakistani, attending grad school in the US, would ever want to go back to their shitty country.

  20. warlock
    Is track and field big in Sri Lanka? Very happy to see a S Asian from there break 10 second barrier
    spoke to a classmate who is big into athletics. He says there is a system put into place, now about 50 years. There are school level events. They become spring boards to district level events at Under 12. Then onto National Events and then South Asian games.
    Since about 2012 or so after the war ended to integrate the Vanni into the system. The vanni is the area that was under LTTE control . Took a while as first the infrastructure needed to be built. Roads, schools and grounds etc.
    It was only recently it has paid off, they are seeing Tgirls shining at National event.
    If you start shining at national events, that means easy entry into big company or the Army, Air Force.

    Its pretty much the same as for cricket. But because the potential for big money lot of intereference from high ups and politicians.
    Prior to 80’s all cricketers were from elite English speaking schools. It was only after rural school cricketers (eg Sanath Jayasuriya) started get into SL team did we win test matches. Now the problem is political interference.

    I think the key point is there is hidden talent even in the boonies. It has to bee found and fostered and the nation benefits.

    reminds me of
    Full many a gem of purest ray serene,
    The dark unfathom’d caves of ocean bear:
    Full many a flower is born to blush unseen,
    And waste its sweetness on the desert air.

    The flowers and gems need to be found and appreciated

    1. Meet Kalaiyarasi Sadasivam. This 15-year-old girl, like thousands from her country Sri Lanka, loves cricket. She has been selected for Sri Lanka’s provisional Under-19 squad.

      What marks Kalaiyarasi apart is that she is already breaking down barriers for people in her community by being the first Tamil girl to enter the national cricketing arena.

      Kalaiyarasi hails from Kilinochchi, in Sri Lanka’s north. For years, this region was ravaged by the civil war. Opportunities and facilities for budding


      I think Kilinochi and the greater North abd East is going to be big talent pool for sports.

      1. Thanks for info. On an unrelated note, why is Sri Lankan cricketer accent less thick compared to Indian counterpart. I noticed this in post match press interviews.

      2. The Hindu article shows a destroyed water tower and implies Kilinochi is some kind of wasteland.

        Kilinochi, was the LTTE capital. The water tower, reservoirs and town was destroyed by the LTTE as they retreated.

        one of the first thing the Army did after the town was captured was to build temporary water towers. Now some brand new water towers.

        You can judge if Kilinochi is a wasteland
        kilinochi Town

  21. 30 yrs, 15 to 20 trillion dollar economy. Followed by military tech. That is what matters most. Asking or aiming for anything else is wasting time, energy, emotions etc. A politics that is ruthless in its logic with a velvet gloves covering it.

  22. ‘It is interesting that independent India’s greatest socialist leader was a baniya’

    Well there are black sheeps in each community. 90 percent of all Baniyas vote BJP. But then we do have Tanuja gupta, No?

    On a side note, Baniyas are curios mix of being both a economical strong caste with next to nil political significance. So they hitch their bandwagon to whichever ‘ideology’ gives them power , and fast. During the 90s they quickly bankrolled the RJB movement. Similarly after the death of Nehru, Lohia saw an opening and captured the ‘socialist’ space to gain power. So no surprises there…

  23. Interesting ranking of countries with most highly cited papers (1%).


    It’s only in STEM. India is now ranked above SK and Japan and sits at #7 in the world. As late as a decade ago, it wasn’t even in the top ten. Unsurprisingly, China is now #1.

    Translating research papers into commercial success is a completely different skillset and one in which the US holds the overwhelming advantage. What we’ve seen so far from China hasn’t been too impressive. Let’s see how India fares.

    1. In biology/medicine, there is a major lag time between basic science to clinical trial success to commercial success. The key is leading basic success and going from there. I think it’s too early to judge how well China has turned its basic success into commercial success

      1. One roadblock is VCs are all quite scared of investing in China after it started reigning in its equivalent of big tech and semi-nationalizing companies which become too big.

        The VC business model relies on a very tiny number of big wins to offset many loosing investments, so effectively the risk / reward just isn’t there (esp in current climate but even otherwise)

        But who knows, it is possible China will stumble upon a better capital allocation solution that is less skewed in terms of inequality, and granting too much power to big tech companies while still incentivizing impactful investments.

        Anyways pleasantly surprised to see India have such a big improvement.

    2. China’s papers tend to be have only senior researchers as authors. The classic US academia brilliant grad student first author, professor second author combo seems to be missing.

  24. @Prats

    Since 1990s, Baman hold over universities has been broken by Mandal quotas and merit based entrances (backed by coaching industry). Bania fortress of business has only become stronger since liberalization. Bamans outnumber Banias in PhD programs in the US, mostly because of cultural reasons. There is over representation of bakchod folks like TamBrams, Bhadraloks, UP-Bamans, …

    I think even UPSC has got a lot to do with coaching industry. Only folks who can stay unemployed in Rajindernagar for 3-5 years get in. Banias have more money so they can afford it.

    Director posts, MBA/consulting type bakchodi is right up baman alley. The real prize is small and medium businesses that sustain the country. Bottling plants, transport, gas agencies, edible-oil/sugar industry, retail,… Bamans just don’t do these things. Other than IT either they are babus, peons or farmers.

    1. It doesn’t seem to me that there are a lot of UP Brahmins in higher academia anywhere. They are the black sheep of the Brahmin family.

      You would, though, find a lot of UP Brahmins working as janitors or security guards in Bangalore or Mumbai.

      Maybe because there are far more UP Brahmins than other breeds.

      1. UP Brahmins also have to muscle in power politics in UP, so they engage in same ‘lowly’ work as other castes.

        Brahmins in other areas have seceded from politics in other areas (largely) so they moved to private space entirely (Education, Business etc)

      2. ‘UP Brahmins working as janitors or security guards in Bangalore or Mumbai’

        This reminds me a Tomara rajput ward boy (in his late 40s) who resented a Dalit doctor (in her 30s) who was treating my family members during delta wave. The guy was mostly assigned to cleaning and resented working under her because of her caste. She was very rude to me and I would think would have been a complete bitch. This Tomara fellow would recite from the Ramcharitmas to show off his ‘higher’ status whenever he had to show even though professionally he was low he was ritually ‘high’. I had always seen Kshatriyas to be very religious almost reaching Baman fanaticism for purity and spectacle in yajnas but without the dietary restrictions of the Baniyas. But on seeing that ‘lowly’ ward-boy thakur, it finally dawned on me how Kshatriyas were just a version of Brahmins and vice-versa. Baman-Baniya-Thakur are one and the same, they will amalgamate within a few generations.

        1. “Baman-Baniya-Thakur are one and the same, they will amalgamate within a few generations.”

          Why not extend it to OBCs and Dalits too. The Thakur ward-boy and Dalit Doctor dynamic is recreated with OBCs vs Dalits or Dalits vs Tribals or even with intra OBC/Dalit rivalry. Everyone has a place in the ritual ladder, socio-economic ladder, power ladder etc and the ladders do not overlap. Everyone has someone to kick down and others to envy.

          IMO, all Hindu castes are very similar, normalized by region. Same people, same mentality, same ethos. Differences are superficial at best but because of little real achievements people hold onto these differences very dearly.

          Urbanization and capitalism is melting away caste but I do think it will remain salient for a long time yet. There are just too many Indians around.

          1. Excessive pride in group identity is often a cope for lack of individual accomplishment.

            Better to strive to become the sort of individual your group can be proud of.

          2. @ Sumit

            “Excessive pride in group identity is often a cope for lack of individual accomplishment.

            Better to strive to become the sort of individual your group can be proud of.”

            Good perspective. To extend this further, as we continue to modernize and start climbing the ladder of achievement as a country which is only possible when a critical mass of Indians accomplish the same individually and consistently across the spectrum of collective identities, the salience of caste is bound to diminish. Then whether casteism is demolished or is driven below surface would become nothing more than semantics

  25. https://twitter.com/Astro_Raja/status/1558951198656499714?cxt=HHwWhMC4oeD2wKIrAAAA

    ‘On Indian Independence eve I’m reminded of Indian diaspora that I could see from @Space_Station where my immigrant father’s home town of Hyderabad shines bright. @nasa is just 1 place Indian Americans make a difference every day. Looking forward to @IndianEmbassyUS celebration’

    Bhai when is our own Space Station coming up. Banao BC Madraasiyon yeh sab jaldi se hamara khudka. Itna time kyu lag raha hai? Gaganyan keeps getting delayed.

    1. Madrasi have forgotten their role. They want to act brawny now , they don’t get that’s our job. Their job is to the moolah for the country

    2. Madrasis busy with Aamka. No time for peaceful space stations. SSLV also far more important. PFBR and IPHWR-700 fleet mode also. And a 80 kn turbofan by 80th birthday.

      1. @Ugra

        IPHWR-700 is being built in numbers that make sense, makes me so happy. Each of these reactor is 100s of good engineers added to the workforce. Please post something about IPHWR-700, I am getting old listening about the fast breeder coming up, it just keeps getting delayed.

        I never took any energy and power courses or bother to pick up their texts. Don’t really understand the field. Have zero clue about nuclear beyond the very basic UG 1st year stuff. I don’t care about the endless caste or AIT-OIT or genetics discussions. Please post something covering the current state of the affairs of Indian civil nuclear program focusing on what our own Madraasis have been up to in a language that an engineer from a different field can understand. I don’t give a shit about Amreeki-Euro-Rusi maal, our purchases keep their engineers employed at the cost of jobs in India. Fuck their expensive stuff.

        How will the turbofan happen? I kind of get the basics of what they do at a 2nd-3rd year thermo course level, I remember solving textbook Brayton cycle problems but that was years ago. What has India cracked now that was unavailable earlier. I remember going to a big museum of science and tech in the US and looking at the intricacies in the cross section of a modern jet engine turbine blade and thinking India will not be able to make this for decades. What has changed? Have we cracked the engine core materials?

  26. So, had a discussion with a family member telling a bit about Islam and true source of problem. And he confessed to being a coward who will be submissive. Is very much the secular type. It is fair to code secular =islamocowardice.

    All of it is cowardice masquerading as morality /empathy, minority rights claptrap.

  27. https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/how-the-country-s-middle-class-came-to-be-so-patriotic-11660580047350.html

    ‘I don’t know about India in its early years after independence, but I can tell you that in the 1980s, most Indians I came across were not patriots. People felt stronger about their religion, language and their castes, if they belonged to upper-caste communities, than about their Indianness. We did not think very highly of ourselves. We were expected to ‘love’ India, somehow, and also flee India. It is not that we felt nothing. No doubt we wanted India to win a cricket match (though in Madras, you could not be sure of this when India played West Indies).

    How did this happen? It is not as though India became impressive in any special way. In fact, since the 80s, even though India has progressed, the Asian developing world has left us far behind. India continues to be a difficult place. The best thing money and success can buy is still a golden visa out of here. So what made us patriotic?

    We can understand the process through four people all of us know.

    One: that new non-resident Indian (NRI).

    Two: that urban villager.

    Three: that anti-Left guy.

    Four: that defeated intellectual.

    The first time I met a person who truly loved his nation was a Sri Lankan refugee. This was in the 1980s, when his nation was being destroyed by a civil war. Maybe you have to lose your nation to love it somewhat. Or maybe patriotism was always only a form of mourning that the world misunderstood as adoration.

    1. It is commensurate with the rise in literacy and access to knowledge. Our education system is quite nationalistic, I still remember my shock when I learned that foreigners did not call India’s anti-colonial movement, the freedom struggle. There is genuinely a lot to be proud of.

      I dont know why Manu pulls NRIs and intellectuals into everything. Idea that anyone outside Bengal and Kerala paid attention to leftist intellectuals is laughable.

  28. @Saurav

    I think the author has several blindspots.

    First, India is not an exception but the rule. As countries become more powerful, patriotism/nationalism tends to rise. Even if India is still a poor country, it is already a Great Power and is set to become more powerful. People enjoy being part of a powerful political entity. Breaking off on your own would now be a net negative even for the most developed states.

    Second, as Indians became less insular in the 1990s and onwards, I suspect there was a bifurcation. Liberals become even more cosmopolitan and less India-centric leftists (e.g. non-aligned movement no longer popular) but right-wingers started to appreciate their uniqueness even more. In a globalised world, you have to latch onto your identity even more fiercer to keep it.

    Third, the author’s upper-middle class milieu was never very representative. BJP has won over the OBCs in a way that they failed in the 1980s and 1990s. Many of the more successful “noveau riche” OBC types have become big supporters of the BJP. This can come across as crass to established cultural elites, but it surely also affects the rest.

    All in all, the very peculiar Indian “upper-middle class leftist” that dominated West Bengal and some southern states like Tamil Nadu were always the outliers. It’s amazing they held onto their cultural power for so long. Indian elites are still liberal, but there is a greater acceptance of talking frankly about the negative effects of the Islamic invasions etc. The cultural hand-me-downs from cultural Marxists like Romila Thapar was a phase that is thankfully never coming back. It seems the author still mourns that.

  29. I think the NRIs does protest too much.

    Its no shame in admitting that most of the upper-middle class (which also makes the bulk of NRIs) were hardly patriotic/nationalistic. Add to that the less-Hindu regions, and you get a majority of India growing up the 70s and 80s hardly identifying themselves as Indian, as soon as they stepped out of India.

    When the NRIs and current upper-middle class are reminded of that fact, they deflect by saying ‘Oh it was just Bengal/South’ (as if these regions are not Indian) . The ironic part is even today when leftist and commies govern more than 1/3rd of India, we still relegate these views as fringe.

    All in all, India’s patriotism/nationalism(right or wrong) is co-terminus with its ‘Hindu’ regions. The higher the ‘Hindu’ quotient, the more patriotic the regions is. Of course, we all know the regions by now 🙂

    1. Madraasis (except maybe Kaanadas, the absolute worst are Telugus) and Bengalis are the worst when it comes to bleaching their innards and trying to be a coconut. Have seen dozens of examples from these ethnicities desperately trying to be Americans at any cost to their self-respect. Folks scheming for a US job or visa as if their whole life depended on it.

      I like Telugu simplicity and work-ethic but America or IITs are not worth such lobotomy. Sad bit it that their parents and family in India too pushes them to act like this, as if their own lives and identity are trash and worthy of sacrifice. Marriage negotiations of Telugu guys in the US with a Telugu girl in India are depressing. Their lives, choices and world view sucks.

      I suppose Gujjus and Punjabis lied, schemed and ‘married’ their way in too but that was decades ago and I only ever meet their ABCD 2nd gens. I just don’t find ABCDs relatable. Their ideas don’t resonate with me.

  30. Bhimrao and Saurav
    Back to the Chinese ship docking and India protesting.

    Initially SL govt deferred to India and asked China to delay ship. Then Blinken ordered SL Foreign minister Ali Sabry to make sure the Chinese ship did not dock. I assume that set off alarm bells, and the Chinese was given permission to dock. SL may be be a piddling little country, but does not rollover to big bullies.

    One must remember, that Sri Lanka won the 30 year war against the LTTE terrorists with Chinese money and arms. Thats the war as a result of India training, funding, providing arms and safe haven to the LTTE terrorists. Of course it turned out the lTTE Tamils were Sri Lankan, not like Indian Tamils, servile and ready to orders from India or anyone for . They chased out the Indian army while killing a few thousand soldiers (note: LTTE must have been at most few hundred). worse, they went onto Indian soil and assassinated Rajiv Gandhi. I doubt if India got humiliated to that extent even by Pakistan.

    The Port Project was first offered to India. They refused and China jumped in.
    The project was started in 2008 and first phase was opened in 2010

    In 2015 US and India colluded and funded to defeat the China/Russia leaning Rajapakses. The liberal West leaning UNP of Ranil Wickremasinghe won with a small majority. The new govt needed raise foreign exchange in order to repay maturing sovereign bonds unrelated to the port. The West or India was not will to fork money out. So the West leaning PM who had bad mouthed the Chinese bum sucked.
    The Chinese had not forgotten, they wanted their pound of flesh, the Port. Talk about unintended consequences of India and US interfering in SL elections.

    Many Indians specially those living in the West think the US is a natural ally of the US/UK (high steppe illusions), The natural allies of the US are other countries of Anglo Saxon origin, such s UK, Aus and Canada. India was ecstatic about joining the Quad and participated in Naval exercises. Then reality set in, AUKUS partnership was formed and plans to have nuclear submarines in Perth Port. Egg on face of India that was hoping for a couple of nuclear subs. Cant give brown coolies, nuclear subs noh.
    Also a reminder, during the Bangaladesh war, the US was on Pakistans side. They were in the process of sending a US navy fleet to side with Pakistan. The then PM Indira called Russia and they deployed warships from Vladivostok. The US backed off.

    India, is just a pawn to the US. what US would like is goad India in getting into war with China. Just like Ukraine got goaded into provoking Russia. Two birds with one stone. An India China war will slow or stop India (more so) and Chinas development.

    The Chinese have some basic principles about other countries sovereignty. Unlike India or US sneaky tactics like funding terrorism and regime change. Note China has not funded or trained terrorists of Assam or Arunachal Pradesh. It would be quite easy to do so, with just a few million.

    So, Bhimrao I just observe and comment as I see it. I dont know anyone in the higher echelons of power in SL, neither do I want to know.
    So Bhimrao, good luck with your advise of asking India to “punish” Sri Lanka. More power to you and India.

    1. Indias gift of a Dornier reconnaissance aircraft to Sri Lanka arrived on the same day the Chinese ship docked.

      I was reminded of “Beware of Greeks Bearing Gifts” a quote from famous ancient literature.

    2. > Note China has not funded or trained terrorists of Assam or Arunachal Pradesh. It would be quite easy to do so, with just a few million.

      I wonder where the Naga rebels get their guns from.

      India should have never lent Sinhalas a single rupee. Sri Lankans have some little boy syndrome.

  31. one should concede that modi’s political brain works overtime. the fact that he dropped shivraj and gadkari, ( elections in their states are bit away) and pulled in yeddi is a masterstroke.

    1. Gadkari is a lightweight who was on BJPs panel just because he is an RSS man. Now with junior Gadkari (Fadnavis) in the helm in the state, there is no use of Gadkari. This could be his last ministerial stint. Same with Shivraj, but with no ready replacement (OBC CM) , he might be given a long rope.

      Yeddi has been pulled into the centre to get him away from the state, where he seems to undercut Bomai. Modi himself was a victim of that once.

  32. modi’s or whoever’s idea of giving d d a houses to rohingyas was ???!!!!.
    the base will not allow modi to become a secular messaih.

  33. @Qureshi


    ‘Shehbaz Gill was stripped naked and tortured, says Imran Khan’

    I had predicted this months ago. Specifically I had said Shahbaz Gill should be easy picking as he has no real base.

    Just listen to what Imran says in Hindi 😂! Hilarious😆.

    I don’t think too highly of Imran but he is a relatively honest man. The problem with him is that he is too nice to actually enforce. PTI needed it’s own Rana-Sanaullah/Amit-Shah.

  34. The torturing of Shehbaz Gill seems like an insanely stupid overreach. The army’s reputation will only take a further hit. Bajwa isn’t ruthless, he’s just being stupid.

    Making a martyr out of your opponents is just about the dumbest move you could make.

    1. But Shahbaz has no real on ground support, there are no folks who will riot on streets and meet baton charges in the open for their ‘leader’. Folks say he is an American citizen. In him I see the naked stupidity of Pakistani (expat) hubris and tall-talk.

      Shahbaz is a regular overconfident Pakistani troll who has snaked his way up the cracks of American society. I don’t respect Dr. Gill because his academic appointment at UIUC has come most likely from long term ass-licking at UIUC and not merit or open competition. For over a decade he was their post-doc, lecturer and now a non-tenure ‘clinical’ assistant professor. I seriously look down on such incestuous appointments. Every American university department has such laggards. If someone is worthy then prove it in the open market without support of godfathers.

  35. warlock
    why is Sri Lankan cricketer accent less thick compared to Indian counterpart. I noticed this in post match press interviews.

    Kumar Sangakara is elite familiy and school.
    Russell Arnold is Protestant Jaffna Tamil* though Colombo born and bred , so neutral accent, I think. *(relative connected in many ways)

    About rural others may be they pick up the neutral accent / pronunciation associating with the Colombo clubs guys.

    Kumar Sangakkara Interview

    Russel Arnold
    Speaking in Tamil
    In English

    Sanath Jayasuriya from medium size deep south Sinhala school;
    To me he slips on and off with rural pronunciation

    Sri Lanka, I call it Heaven on Earth – Wasim Akram

  36. I was just thinking, Sri Lankan blue collar workers working overseas are kind of like the Brit Colonialists workers.

    Many only see those like Robert Clive who ransacked India. Even the rank and file of Brit India and Ceylon (the equivalent of SL/Indian expat blue collar) gained handsomely by salaries and pensions.

    One thing that could be said of the Brits, almost none wanted become Indian.
    Unhappily, Indians (and Sri Lankans) want to be Americans and Brits.
    Servile people or what.

    So back to “Sri Lankan blue collar workers working overseas”, just making use of opportunities. Not because SL has the ability to dictate any policy.

  37. Glad to see tons of people on the right openly criticizing Bilkis’ rapists being released and welcomed.
    Reasons like these are why I have never voted, and will probably never vote. Every other politician is nothing more than a degenerate. You pretty much need to be a thug (or have their support) to be a politician in most places. Hindus deserve better representation.

    And milords deserve to have their teeth kicked in at this point. Terrible judgments every single day. Lost count.

    1. Fidelity to rule of law application for clearly documented heinous crimes like these is low hanging fruit for the BJP. Absolutely moronic behavior

  38. @bhimrao

    We figured out some important things in the last 50 years, a rarity outside the UNSC. Even Japan and Australia are laggards when it comes to thorough exploitation of nuclear tech –

    1. To set up nuclear plants far away from the Coal Ground Zero in Bihar/Jharkand – this maximises the resource efficiency of the whole electrical grid in terms of transmission and competing sources for baseload supply.

    2. Mastery of PHWR tech – which is the most natural fit for us given our nuclear ore resources. PHWR uses natural U as fuel – Bhabha set this course with the negotiations with Canada. If we had chosen LWR, we would have entered an endless cycle of fuel-dependency (enriched U) from others.

    3. Sizing – We have figured out a best-fit at 700MWe and 2000MWTh/per reactor for operations. The trick is then to set up many reactors at the same site (Kakrapar, Kaiga etc.)

    4. Vajpayee and MMS started a synchronised jugalbandi that threatened the nuclear ayatollahs in the West with breakout proliferation, culminating in the nuclear deal. We capped some military reactors but overall we have now tremendously increased access to uranium (natural and enriched).

    5. The nuke SSBN fleet (LWRs) is on track (2 in the water and 2 in the shed). The SSN fleet will follow, far easier to design and construct. In this regard, we are the only non-US member in the QUAD that operates nuclear submarines today. Japan/Australia may get them but they will be effectively US controlled.

    6. The PFBR is, perhaps, being purposefully delayed to meet some unknown strategic timeline – either the arrival of plutonium generators (like the 10 PHWRs) or to safeguard the strategic stock of fissile plutonium for submarine warheads.

    The net result is that – we have gone from 100 MW of commercial nuclear power in 1972 to over 7000 MW in 2022 – a CAGR of almost 9% – while retaining strategic autonomy. If we hold the same rate for the next 25 years, we will be at 70000 MW in the year 2047.

  39. Feel there’s too much focus on unicorns in the West (and in India) without asking “for what”. Quality over quantity. Ecommerce, social media, fintech start-ups are all vacuous nonsense.

    The Chinese are cracking down on these types of start-ups and redirecting funds towards actual engineering projects and companies doing hard science stuff (rockets, semiconductors, materials science, AI, quantum computing etc).

    There’s probably too much ideological baggage to do something similar but we could need it. I just roll my eyes whenever I see people yapping about “web3”.

    1. It looks that way on the outside but then some of the web3 yada-yada folks actually do something very-very useful. Online payments in India was unthinkable 10 years ago. I remember the Razorpay guys being seen as somewhat losers ~7 years back, but now here we are 9-5-ing in Bay Area while they are billionaires. I had another couple of friends, quite talented, who yapped about autonomous driving, then yapped about ML based X-ray annotation. Had some basic products ready but never got anywhere even after 2 years full time pitching in Blr-Hyd. Finally moved to the US for graduate degrees. Raising VC money is hard, generating revenue is impossibly hard.

      No point complaining about them. VC is not government money and no one but the VCs should have any say over it. If someone thinks their ideas and instincts are divine they should prove it and then make a VC fund for hardtech from their own money.

      1. I somewhat agree with Principia’s point here. Something Sumit alluded to above as well.

        VC is just one way of allocating capital in a society and a very inefficient one at that.

        What you want at the end of the day is economically sustainable innovation that can make people’s lives better, whatever way you define it – create jobs, create missiles, self-reliance etc.

        “VC is not government money and no one but the VCs should have any say over it.”

        The largest LPs are sovereign funds and pension funds. They do often dictate where the money goes indirectly through policies like ESG.

        The laconic VC on Twitter is mostly a service worker in this capital allocation game. We don’t need to give them more importance than they deserve.

        “If someone thinks their ideas and instincts are divine they should prove it and then make a VC fund for hardtech from their own money.”

        Free markets are useful but let’s not buy the American kool aid on this stuff. Governments can and do influence where money goes. Especially any government in an industrialising country. Even the US is doing the same with things like Inflaction Reduction Act.

        America has far too much excess capital. So it can afford to throw it on frivolous things. Great for them.
        The sheer volume of deal making ensures that for a hundred ‘Yo’ messengers, they will also throw out a Tesla.

        We would be suckers to play the same game mindlessly.

        Also, I’d suggest that if you live in Bay Area and earn a few hundred thousand dollars a year then direct some of that as angel funding to your friends in Blr-Hyd trying to do hard tech startups. You can become part of some syndicates on AngelList.

        There is a growing cohort of young folks who are remaining in core engineering and doing startups there thanks to the EV revolution. Hope that has a flywheel effect.

        1. @Prats Bhai,
          What I said is my cope to make sense of the world. I know that advertising technology and network effects are nothing compared to things like electric airplanes. I feel excited about solving real problems and have lost out on a lot of hard cash by trying to build things rather than do tech enabled marketing.

          “What you want at the … create missiles, self-reliance etc.”

          I just want Indians to have money rest will follow. Poverty sucks.

          Heart of the problem is that some new, small, and cheap interventions make lives of millions of people better and it’s founders get paid billions for it. Most hard tech (except Semiconductors or Biotech at the very limits of engineering) does not do it. Zoom meeting beats aviation, Google map saves more fuel than the best engineer at Ford. No one dislikes hard tech, but if hard tech does not make money it is hard to justify spending on it.

          Academia and R&D is chock full of chutiya pretenders who will never do anything meaningful but get by with ‘Oh I am doing hard tech’.

          “The laconic VC … they deserve.”

          I give them their lane as I give banking, insurance, and investment professions their lane. People trust them with money, they must be somewhat competent.

          “Free markets … Reduction Act.”

          I would never say that, Indian government should do what Indian government must. I fully support things like spending on indigenous rail, roads, nuclear, aero, … but the truth is Indian government and Indian people are not serious or worthy. They will talk tall about startups, hand out 5 crores a year to build fission reactor fitted into a reusable rocket and then give away 5 billion USD of free electricity for votes.

          Yeh desh chutiya hai, iske logg gandu hain.

          I have a front row seat to the American startup scene. These people are very professional and wicked smart. They just put on this nautanki with t-shirts, pyjama and chappal look. All of it is curated.

          “Also, I’d suggest … AngelList.”

          Few hundreds ke liye bhai Google ki gaand chatni padegi. Abhi I am taking some chances at smaller place. Dekhte hain kya hota hai.

          Kiya tha maine bhi contribute bohot thoda sa, I had very limited means . These two guys had raised USD 30-35K in seed from friends and family. Paid their bills for 2 years.

          Syndicate ki aukaat hai nai yaar meri, I just don’t have that kind of money. India ke launde BC chutiya se pitch ka USD 5 million valuation mangte hain. Yeh mere chutiye dost khud USD 1.5 million ka valuation bata rahe the. Main bola, gandu kaunsi charas kari hai tune? Basically na paisa hai, na connections, na skills to be a angel. Abhi nai hoga yeh wala.

          Baki yaar ab dekho kya hota hai. Mann toh hai mera khud kuch karne ka.

          ‘There is … effect.’

          Doing startups in the US?

        2. Govt should not be allowed to touch private money. They have tax resources to do their own thing. At best they can incentivize certain fields and nothing more.

          Otherwise we will end up pauperized.

    1. The average 2nd gen Indian American (if even aware of this) will blame it on white supremacy.

    2. These Western leftists and Khalistanis are strange bedfellows with right wing Hindutva nationalists in their hate for Gandhi.

      Seems every corner of the political compass hates Gandhi, but he is beloved by the center.

      1. The Indian RW’s hatred for Gandhi is unparalleled. It’s really sickening how they speak of him. They are deeply ashamed of him, they feel he emasculates them. They revere violent nationalists like Bhagat Singh to compensate and provide support for their muscular nationalism.

        It’s pathetic.

      2. Moderate Muslims of Pak even denigrate him quite a bit. To them, he is a caricature of the skinny, weak but conniving “Hindu Baniya” they so love to put down in their media.

        Specifically, in the subcontinent, whose entire independence from the British he worked for, only the Indian center right to center left like him. He still has a good reputation in the West. MLK and Mandela giving him props makes a huge difference. It puts Wokes in a bind and forces them to reconcile with Mahatma’s views evolving, instead of just zoning in purely on his time in S Africa.

        He was too pacifist for my taste. But collective action can work, when one has a huge population majority like British Indians did over their colonizers. This was part of Malcom X’s critique of MLL using Gandhi’s strategy. Even have gave props to Gandhi, but he recognized the American Black situation was different.

        Gandhi’s personal behavior with his nieces was unacceptable. His refusal to give his wife treatment was even worse. But I think on balance, he did some incredible things.

        Watch “Rapes but saves” comedic sketch by Dace Chappelle. He hilariously illustrates a paradigm to reconcile historical leaders arguably doing overall societal good but having some clearly documented personal demerits.

    3. next is chaps like Hoju, Tamil supremacists knocking down Nehru family statues.
      Heck Hoju was happy that his beloved LTTE murdered Rajiv Gandhi .

  40. @Saurav and others,
    Happy Janmasthami!

    There is a open competition going on in my family WhatsApp for the best dressed baby Krishna. Seen more than half a dozen of little boys dressed as Govinda since morning, lots of gopis too. A Sikh neighbor’s 2 year old son was dressed up as a Gopi.

    1. “ A Sikh neighbor’s 2 year old son was dressed up as a Gopi.“

      Hindu nationalism on the rise 😉

  41. Meanwhile, climate changes marches on. This year we are seeing simultaneous droughts that are impacting the Colorado, Rhine, Danube, and the Yangtse. The situation on the Yangtse is most alarming because of the shear # of people impacted and the larger political impact since massive project for transferring water from Southern China to the parched North. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South%E2%80%93North_Water_Transfer_Project ]

    I expect that the Chinese efforts to divert the waters of the Brahmaputra will accelerate as a result.


    1. thanks JT
      Wow, the sheer size of the project.

      Maybe the US should also have thought ahead of moving water to the West and south west.

      Climate change is already baked in.
      Even if emissions are cut to zero tomorrow it will not change what is going to happen in the next couple of decades.
      So it is all about climate change mitigation i.e. planning for the consequences of climate change, eg
      a)breakwaters and sea walls for sea level rise,
      b)water diversion to predicted more arid regions
      c) Storm run off and drainage systems to handle deluge like rain.

      Much of what we are seeing was predicted 20 years ago by climate models.
      a) large increases in rainfall for Sri Lanka (we have floods all the time now)
      b) Drought conditions in West and South west US
      c) Moderate rainfall in East US. Cant recall what if Gulf Stream shuts off. Probably drought in East US

      So kudos to China for getting prepared for climate change impacts

      1. E India will be in trouble with redirection of Brahmaputra. It may lead to Indian state fucking with Indus origin. It will just get ugly in general. Bangladesh is also fucked. Cheap desalination tech is def a big priority

        I know you, as Sri Lankan nationalist, dislike the Indian state. But Indian state capacity is literally incapable of the hegemonic style aggression that China is about to unleash. The US is no angel either and has done more historical damage to places. But looking how China is dealing with Uighurs, their model seems to be even more aggressive going forward.

        CCP and radical islam, outside of climate change, are the greatest threats to peace and stability in our time.

        1. “As such, the percentage of glacier melt in river flow is approximately 12%. A report by the IWMI puts these estimates at an even more conservative – 2% glacier runoff contribution and 2% seasonal snowmelt contribution to the Mean Annual Flow (MAF)”


          I think the Brahmaputra threat is much too hyped up. Up to 90% of its water is due to rains in Arunachal and Assam. So, unless rains stop here, there is little China can actually do.

          1. I agree that the glacier runoff for the Brahmaputra originating on the Chinese side of the border is relatively small. But this is where Arunachal Pradesh comes in. India is going to have to get its act together if China were to launch a serious thrust in Arunachal Pradesh and/or at “Chickens Neck”.

            Agreed that Indian state capacity has been historically low grade. Perhaps the advent of Modi and the BJP changes that.

            The bigger challenge for India is receding glaciers that feed the Indus and Ganges ecosystems. Climate models are full of dire predictions for South Asia.

        2. I know you, as Sri Lankan nationalist, dislike the Indian state.
          But Indian state capacity is literally incapable of the hegemonic style aggression that China is about to unleash

          warlock, no question I am a Sri Lankan nationalist. i dislike the Indian state for its hegemonic interventions in Sri Lanka.
          You live in US (citizen maybe) and non citizen Indian Nationalist of sorts. Nationalism is world of difference when one is a citizen of that country, only.

          So keep in mind, China/CCP has never interfered in SL’s internal affairs, supporting terrorists like India. In fact China has helped with weapons and money to fight the LTTE terrorist. So call me justifiably biased for China and against India.

          China is definitely aggressive, but in business sense. China wants to be the #1 producer of needs and wants, but without military aggression. The place that US and Europe were for over half a century, while using military force to extract resources and enforce unequal trade pacts.

          E India will be in trouble with redirection of Brahmaputra.
          Two Philosophical/political question.
          a) Does the river water originating in country A also belong to countries B and C. In SL, even when the terrorist LTTE controlled the Wanni, the irrigation systems diverting central highlands* water to the Wanni was never reduced or stopped. To the contrary it was the LTTE that destroyed the reservoirs and irrigation channels as they retreated, depriving their own Tamil people of water for personal and agricultural use. Immediately after the war was over, civilian and army personnel were sent to rebuild the destroyed water systems (eg see Iranamadu Reservoir and Kantalai Reservoir). Even now there is a mega project to take central highland water to Jaffna, via Kanagarayan Kulam->Iranamadu Reservoir->Jaffna.
          *All rivers in SL originate from the Central Highlands.

          b) Does a port belong to a country or are there constraints. Apparently the hegemonic US and India think they can dictate and control how a port is used.

          The US is no angel either and has done more historical damage to places. But looking how China is dealing with Uighurs
          warlock, you are buying into US propaganda.
          I would suggest you have a look at how African American are treated. Despite reams of law and legislation, the reality of discrimination and police brutality has not changed much over three centuries.
          The US has 698 prisoners per 100,000 of which close to 50% are black AfricanAmericans. There are more black men in the U.S. prisons than the total prison population in India, Argentina, Canada, Lebanon, Japan, Germany, Finland, Israel and England combined.

          Now to IDPs (Internal Displaced Persons) due to US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. There is a total 5,281,872 IDP’s in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, respectively 4,000,000, 847,872 and 434,000. The total population in 3 countries is 70,886,000. So about 7% of the populations have been displaced because of US hegemonic wars, and still ongoing.
          eg Somalia was bombed for the third time this year (Aug 14) and has been so for 15 years.

          CCP and radical islam, outside of climate change, are the greatest threats to peace and stability in our time.
          I suggest you take a hard look at the data, i.e.# wars, deaths and IDP and it will be quite evident which country is causing instability and outright wars.
          Note, China says it is Uighur Islamic extremists that are in prisons.

          Regards , Islamic Extremism we can thank the US for that fostering too.
          eg1 Carter in 1979 arming the mujaheddin which meta morphed to Taliban/Al Qaeda
          eg2; Supporting Saudi Arabia, with petrodollar and military hardware. SA is the biggest propagator of Islamic extremism via funding of madrassas, extremist Wahabi preachers.
          eg 3 In Somalia, Al-Shabab (an al-Qaida offshoot) was created when the United States helped to overthrow the Islamic Courts Union after 9/11,

          So, I think its the US and its support Islamic Extremism are the greatest threats to peace and stability in our time. Plenty of data to support my view.

          1. “China is definitely aggressive, but in business sense. China wants to be the #1 producer of needs and wants, but without military aggression”

            Lol, that’s a laugh and a half.

            Off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen instances of Chinese military aggression – the brutal invasion of Tibet and the destruction of ancient Buddhist monasteries and murdering of monks, invasion of India in the 60s, invasion of Vietnam in the 70s, the creation of artificial military Islands in the SC sea and naval bullying of Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. and finally the military aggression in Ladakh in 2020.

            The list is probably longer, but don’t let me stop you from enjoying that sweet Chinese kool-aid.

          2. Siddarth

            Off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen instances of Chinese military aggression
            I gave hard numbers of people killed/IDP by the US recent wars of aggression in the mid east.

            So why dont you make a list of the wars by China, real wars and those dead and IDP’s

            creation of artificial military Islands in the SC sea and naval bullying of Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia
            Nobody dead or displaced. Compare to the displaced of Diego Garcia and Bikini/Bimini. The UN has asked the UK/US to vacate Diego Garcia, not happening.

            invasion of India in the 60s, invasion of Vietnam in the 70s,
            First it was a border war, unlike US invasion of Vietnam half the globe away. Worse the US was there to help the French colonizers hang on to their colony.
            Vietnam’s estimate of deaths from China war 65,000.
            The US Vietnam war of aggression, Vietnamese civilian dead: 405,000–2,000,00.
            Siddarth you really have problem in comparing numbers.

            military aggression in Ladakh in 2020.
            Clutching at straws Invasion by 200 Chinese troops. Really.
            Heck, India sent in 100,000 Indian People Killing Force (IPKF) in the Sri Lanka invasion.
            Extracts from Wiki.
            The IPKF perpetrated a number of human rights violations, including rapes and massacres of civilians. Almost all against Tamils.
            Indian forces indulged in a number of civilian massacres, involuntary disappearances and rapes during their time in the Northeastern province of Sri Lanka.[31][5] These include complicity in the incidents such as Valvettithurai massacre in which on 2, 3, and 4 August 1989 over 50 Tamils were massacred by the Indian Peace Keeping Force in Valvettithurai, Jaffna. In addition to the killings over 100 homes, shops and other property were also burnt and destroyed.[32]

            Another notable incident was the Jaffna teaching hospital massacre on 22 October 1987. Following a confrontation with Tamil militants near the hospital, IPKF forces quickly entered the hospital premises and massacred over 70 civilians. These civilians included patients, two doctors, three nurses and a paediatric consultant who were all in uniform. The hospital never completely recovered after this massacre.

            Sino-Indian War between China and India occurred in October–November 1962
            Again a minor border war. Indian estimated 1,383 killed Indian Army dead. Really Siddarth, scraping the bottom of the barrel, noh.

            the brutal invasion of Tibet and the destruction of ancient Buddhist monasteries and murdering of monks,
            To quote: Tibet came under the rule of the Qing dynasty of China in 1720 after the Qing expelled the forces of the Dzungar Khanate. It remained under Qing rule until 1912.
            After the Xinhai Revolution in 1911, most of the area comprising the present-day Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) became a de facto independent polity, independent from the rest of the Republic of China.
            I am not really interested in debating China’s claims on Tibet. More the hard numbers.
            Apparently 5,700 dead and 3,000 surrendered.

            So not a “brutal invasion” along the lines of US?UK invasions of the middle east.

            The list is probably longer, but don’t let me stop you from enjoying that sweet Chinese kool-aid.
            I would contend that you Siddharth are the one who has drunk the US/UK kool aid. I have given hard numbers.


          3. Lol, that’s a laugh and a half.
            Off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen instances of Chinese military aggression

            I would contend that the Indias
            a) funding and training of LTTE terrorist
            b) IPKF massacres of Tamil Civilians an rape of Tamil women

            is much much worse than the so called Chinese aggression.
            So, Siddharth do you want to debate the numbers.

          4. I wasn’t them comparing to the Western colonialists (in which list I’d include the US), the Euros were obviously orders of magnitude worse. Just disproving your statement that the Chinese don’t do military aggression.

            And are you really comparing the actions of the IPKF to the Chinese in Tibet? Hahahaha

          5. I’m never a fan of comparing numbers of dead, massacres, etc. as that’s in poor taste but since you actually think the IPKF were comparable to the what the Chinese did (and are still doing in Tibet), here are some numbers from a very cursory look on the internet –

            “Although the Cultural Revolution in China was unleashed by Mao to eliminate his enemies and reshape relations within the party,[8] in Tibet, the Cultural Revolution was aimed to destroy Tibet’s religion, culture and identity. When it ended with Mao’s death in September 1976, more than 6,000 monasteries and religious institutions in Tibet laid in ruins. Millions of ancient and priceless manuscripts were burnt. Statues made of gold, silver, or bronze were removed from the temples and shipped to China.[9] The physical torture and psychological traumas endured by Tibetans during public “struggle sessions” and imprisonment were beyond human comprehension. At least 92,000 Tibetans who were subjected to “struggle sessions” died or committed suicide[10] and around 173,000 Tibetans died in prison, or in “Reform Through Labor Camps”


            For someone who’s a proud Sinhala Buddhist, you seem quite forgiving for the irreversible destruction the Chinese have done to Tibetan Buddhism and culture

          6. Siddharth
            I am a Jaffna Tamil (3/4th) and a 800 year documented direct male descendant of the CinkaiAryan (in Sinhala AryaSinghe) family of Jaffna.

            Regards Tibet.net thats like one of the Khalistani rags that talk of Sikh genocide.
            I sure I can find better links
            India fought tooth and nail to forestall the intended referendum. It sent a dossier to the British government blaming Pakistan and Paramjit Singh Pamma, “an ordinary criminal”, for sponsoring the event. The UK rejected the request.
            The riots resulted in genocide of thousands of Sikhs. Not only the Congress Party leaders like Sajan Kumar and Jagadish Tytler but also police colluded with the killers. India’s then foreign minister
            Also see box on left side, HR Violations in IIOJK
            And are you really comparing the actions of the IPKF to tibet
            I was comparing IPKF invasion of Sri Lanka to your claims of Chinese invasion of India in the 60s and military aggression in Ladakh in 2020.

          7. “b) IPKF massacres of Tamil Civilians an rape of Tamil women”

            So massacres of Tamil civilians and the rape of Tamil women is only bad when the IPKF does it? When the Sinhala supremacist state does it at a much grander scale and over a longer time period, it’s all good?

            “For someone who’s a proud Sinhala Buddhist, you seem quite forgiving for the irreversible destruction the Chinese have done to Tibetan Buddhism and culture”

            The Sinhala learned a lot from China on how to commit crimes against humanity against its minorities. The Sinhala supremacist state is colonizing the predominantly Tamil Hindu northeast, destroying Hindu temples, erecting Buddhist sites, and engineering demographic swamping.

          8. Siddharth

            since you actually think the IPKF were comparable to the what the Chinese did
            I was comparing Indian IPKF invasion to what you consider major Chinese aggression against India, the Sino-Indian War in 1962 and Ladakh in 2020..

            In Ladakh it was a “major” aggression by 200 Chinese troops. Really.
            1962 Sino-Indian War 1,383 Indian Army dead. No civilian deaths.

            Of course Indians dont think the Indian IPKF was an invasion into SL.
            i) India sent in 100,000 Indian People Killing Force (IPKF) to SL
            ii)IPKF did number of civilian massacres, disappearances and rapes
            iii)Over 100 homes, shops and other property were also burnt and destroyed by the IPKF
            iv) The Jaffna teaching hospital massacre by IPKF. Massacred over 70 civilians. These civilians included patients, two doctors, three nurses and a pediatric consultant who were all in uniform.

            Tibet.net is no different than khalistani mouth piece. Hardly neutral or unbiased and prone to exaggeration.
            The Lamas were no real Buddhists by any stretch, despotic medieval feudal landlords, much like Indian society in the past. Siddharth, you really should read up how the Lamas treated the peasants Absolutely no concepts of equality or egalitarianism and absolute exploitation of the peasants who were all worse than serfs or slaves.

            Regards Tibet, China claims it was part of China in past and even in the 19th century. Anyway, I consider Tibet to be a Chinese internal matter. I dont there will be ever a R2P type action.

            I’m never a fan of comparing numbers of dead, massacres, etc. as that’s in poor taste
            Poor taste or not the numbers of death and destruction give a idea as to which cultures and nations are a threat to peace and stability.
            Just keep in mind Vietnamese civilian dead of 405,000–2,000,00 by the US is a million times more than all the so called Chinese aggression.

          9. Siddharth
            For someone who’s a proud Sinhala Buddhist, you seem quite forgiving for the irreversible destruction
            First I am a proper Sri Lankan, i.e. a mutt with 3/4th Jaffna Tamil ancestry, Sinhalese and Irish ancestry divide equally.

            Also a atheist since about the age of 13, and Buddhist philosophy (not Religion) is closest what I think. That difference in concept well acknowledged by the Sinhalese. Buddhist Philosophy= Buddha Dharma and Buddhist religion= Buddha Aagama.

            My paternal jaffna tamil family have a documented 800 year history in Sri Lanka. The family name was CinkaiAryan (AryaSinghe). Web search of CinkaiAryan will give you plenty of hits.

            The first documented ancestor, Magha of Kalinga completely destroyed the ancient Sinhalese Rajarata around the 12th century. That said they claimed direct descent from the mythical Sinhabahu of Kalinga who is supposed to have lived around 500 BC. The Sinhalese claim descent thru Vijaya, Sinhabahus son who was banished from Kalinga.
            Even genetically the Sinhalese and Jaffna Tamil are closer to each other than they are to Indian Tamil. Also closer to Bengalis compared to Indian Tamils.

            If you are really interested in the Jaffna Tamil history read “Yalpana Vaipava Malai”. The English translation is available at ‘noolaham.net/project/47/4684/4684.pdf”

        3. Reading this guy, I no longer feel bad for what is happening in Sri Lanka. These guys think that it was some India+US scheming that brought down Rajapaksas.

          People deserve their rulers. Yatha praja tatha raja.

    1. LOL

      All desi ethnicities want to appear both as ‘martial’ as well ”non collaborators’ , but its a fine line to walk.

  42. Infosys cuts variable pay. On one hand there appears to be a hiring spree, but big guys are downsizing. Difficult to understand.

  43. Below some the many clips from Latcho Drom by Tony Gatlief. Its about the interconnected paths of the migration of Gypsies of Indian origin, probably from Rajasthan.

    My first interest in Gypsies was first from reading about Nellie (I think) the Gypsy in The Talisman by Sir Walter Scott. Scott was a favorite of my father, and he had many of his novels.

    No TV etc, so I as a young teenager read pretty much all of my fathers books. Scotts novels were very readable and adventure for even a young boy like me,, eg Ivanhoe and Sir Nigel. Sir Nigel, had much about the siege of Jerusalem by Saladin and mentioned that he was a Kurd (I think). Not much spin or propaganda. Saladin (Sala ud Din i think) is shown as a very noble literate person.

    Later in life I was intrigued how two extreme cultures, the Jewish and Gypsy. One literate obsessed with history, the other illiterate, and no wish for history. Both managed to preserve, and even more so spread their culture world wide. In the case of the Gypsies their music and dance, eg the guitar/sitar, flamenco.

    Now the Gypsies call themselves the Roma or Gitanos (Gita ?) and many famous artists are of Roma origin, eg Django Reinhardt, Charlie Chaplin, Shakira and Michael Cain.

    Flamenco Spain



    I fortunate to see the below in Byrant Park, Mid Town, NYC. Probably in 2007.

  44. Another sad article from just a few months ago related to the Sinhala supremacist state’s domestic endeavors.


    “Years after civil war, Tamils and Muslims in Sri Lanka still fear persecution”

    Really hope to see the arbitrary detention of minorities and the torture of such detainees come down, but it is unlikely. The Sinhala supremacist state, backed by the Sinhala majority, seems incapable of it.

  45. Another sad article from just a few months ago related to the Sinhala supremacist state’s domestic endeavors.


    “Years after civil war, Tamils and Muslims in Sri Lanka still fear persecution”

    Really hope to see the arbitrary detention of minorities and the torture of such detainees come down, but it is unlikely. The Sinhala supremacist state, backed by the Sinhala majority, seems incapable of it.

    1. “We do not have the right to even organise a remembrance event every May 17 to pay homage to our loved ones,” says Lavakumar Lavan, a friend of Nesan who held a Mullivaikkal memorial event in Batticaloa in the east in May 2020.
      If one reads the article you would realize all these people have been arrested for LTTE related activities. That includes mourning defeat of the LTTE (Mullivaikkal memorial ) , celebrating LTTE heroes day etc.
      All such events are against the law in SL.

      No different from Germany where celebrating Nazi events are prohibited, even after 70+ years.

      What is sad is there are such Lawyer chaps like Hoju that will try to drum up hysteria so they can cash in with various lawsuits. Vultures and ghouls who will always act anonymously.
      What more can you say of an Indian Tamil who is happy that the LTTE murdered Rajiv gandhi

      1. Sri Lankan Tamils should be allowed to mourn their loved ones who were massacred in war crimes. That they are detained and tortured for mourning their loved ones exemplifies the cruelness of the Sinhala supremacist state.

        1. Sri Lankan Tamils should be allowed to mourn their loved ones who were massacred in war crimes.
          Tamil Hindu LTTE terrorists are like Nazi.
          No public symbols etc for Nazis in Germany.

          No LTTE symbols or mourning in SL either.
          I think the same in Tamil Nadu too.

    1. Lol. This is a fail proof formula. Take anything Indian – then add casteism, erasure etc.

      I could write a script to generate these articles. Why do we let these mediocrities earn money from such bad takes. Bhim bhai, you could be earning a good side incoming and funnelling it into your friends’ startups.

  46. https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/nonsensical-nemo-dear-bhadralok-bengalis-please-stop-cancelling-people-who-dont-like-rabindranath-tagore

    “ Bengali Exceptionalism – the most annoying export

    In the unique experiment that is the Indian sub-continent, with its share of sub-nationalism from the Kashmiri ‘leke rahenga azaadi’ to Southern state’s ‘look at our huge GDP contribution, please don’t take your labourers back’ to subaltern Bihari pride of knowing that Lollipop Lagelu and Lalu are their greatest imports, Tagore remains an indelible part of Bengali sub-nationalism.

    For Bengalis, Tagore is the eternal wingman, the man who ensures that despite no tangible superiority, Bengalis will always feel smug.

    It does not matter how poor we get, or how bad our politicians are, or the economic status of the state. It is immaterial if doctors are being attacked or if Left has destroyed industry beyond repair. It doesn’t even matter if we are sitting on a COVID-19-time bomb, where the state’s law-and-order machinery can be held hostage by a community.

    As long as we have Tagore, we are always going to be superior. Tagore’s influence is such, that his songs became the defining war cry for the people of East Pakistan, current Bangladesh, who chose their cultural moorings over their religious identity. He is without a doubt, the bedrock of Bengali exceptionalism.

    Bengali exceptionalism – the notion that Bengalis are superior to every other race of people by virtue of their ‘kultchaar’ – is even more perverse than American exceptionalism, which at least has some real-world basis thanks to Uncle Sam’s capitalist military complex juxtaposed with the counter-culture liberal ethos.

    On the other hand, you’ve Bengali exceptionalism.“

    1. Everyone other than Bengalis privately considers Bengalis chutiya.

      I always say that no one in India wants to be an ordinary Indian. Every loser wants to be ‘martial’, ‘Syed’, ‘Suryavanshi’, ‘Gauda/Kanyakubja/Saraswat/Chitpawan/…’. Sab saale gandu hain.

      Kolkata is the shittiest large city in India. Half the folks in Bengal look malnourished, piss-poor, haggle over 2 rupees, and have ‘farms’ smaller than American backyards but will do loud and shrill bakchodi on Communism and Kultchaar.

      These pretentious fuckers have been doing the same type of art for atleast 70 years now, not even made even one good thing like manga, or any new music. Same shit ‘rabindro-songeet’, over and over again. It sucks!

      The food is same old, static, unchanging, other than maybe fish, Bengali food sucks! BC Kolkata street food is so ghatiya when compared to Mumbai or Delhi or Bangalore. Bengalis cinema is full of cheap bollywood type suggestive titillating nudity and sex, ghanta ‘culture’! Go to Bombay Talkies in Midnapur and see their cultures as they howl and shout lewdly when a bikini clad actress comes on screen. Repeat the experiment in UP or Rajasthan and see the ‘decency’ difference.

      Bengalis are a laggard-lazy people who do not want to work. They have no balls for industry or commerce. Their ‘artsy-ness’ is skin deep and in reality their cultural aspirations is to be peons and clerks across India ( or to be ‘researchers’ with no KPIs in the US) while pretending to be enlightened. I wish Bengalis listen and change. But they won’t.

      1. Ask a Punjabi woman to travel in bus in Kolkata and Lucknow and to report how lecherous people are. Or got to a Durgapuja in Allahabad vs Kolkata. Bengalis are fucking tharki, they just keep lying to themselves they are somehow more ‘evolved’. I don’t get it how can they miss the on-ground experience.

          1. the reported number of crimes against women, especially sexual crimes, tends to increase as women feel more comfortable reporting such crimes. so it’s not easy to compare on that basis.

            other measures however don’t have this same issue

            look at the sex ratio for example


            the sex ratio shows that peoples in UP and Bihar are far more likely to abort female fetuses or kill baby girls.

            the percentage points difference in male literacy and female literacy is much higher in UP and Bihar, which shows that peoples in UP and Bihar don’t educate girls and women.


          2. Bhimrao

            Good to hear Tamil Nadu and Nagaland have the lowest rate of crime against women. kudos.

            very surprised, that Kerala has high rate of crime against women, comparable to that of Uganda

          3. Sex ratio reveals a deeper moral rot. Folks who kill babies are evil (of the dumber kind) and will never achieve much in life. I don’t know anyone who has done it so don’t have any insights. Unfortunately, older folks in even my own family do get more happy about baby boys.

            Literacy difference could be explained due to the lag between Hindi heartland and WB-TN-Kerala-… that has been slowly closing.


            If we are going to talk about UP-Bihar’s sex ratio then also talk about Gujrat-Maharashtra’s sex ratio too. If we are going to pick and talk about gender differences in literacy rates in UP-Bihar (20%), then talk about Tamil Nadu (13%), MH(14.5%), Andhra (16%), Karnataka (16.5%), Guj (16.5%) too.

        1. Bimarus denigrating other Indian states for being regressive&lazy is like the black hole calling the kettle black lol

          1. Dravidians calling Indians Bimarus and then wondering y no one cares when their brethren quashed by Sinhalese lol

          2. @Enigma

            Regressive maybe yes, lazy definitely not. It is my folks who do all the hard menial work from Dubai to Africa, Kashmir to Kerala, and Bhutan to Mumbai.

            Regressive works both ways though, in Bengal TMC folks get away with murder and gang rape. In UP-Bihar-MP ‘eye for an eye’ keeps things in check.

      2. You don’t seem to understand the term Bengali culture. When Bengalis use the term it usually refers to the culture of Bengali Pantheists, not the culture of the entire Bengali population.

  47. Israel Conquers the World
    Fealty to Israeli and Jewish interests is the new normal
    Putin has lately been brave enough to compare and contrast what the Russian military has been accused of in Ukraine with what Israel has been doing to Gaza. He has done so by asking a series of questions that together demonstrate the hypocrisy of Washington and of some Europeans over what constitutes war crimes or crimes against humanity. The questions were “First, are there any sanctions against Israel for the murder and destruction of innocent Palestinian women and children? Second, are there any sanctions against the United States for killing and destroying lives of innocent women and children in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Cuba, Vietnam, and even stealing their diamonds and gold? And third, were there any sanctions against the US and France over the killing of Muammar Gaddafi and the destruction of Libya?”


    1. Western countries are selective in their concerns about war crimes.

      They never cared — and in fact supported — West Pakistan in their genocide of predominantly Hindu East Pakistanis (now Bangladeshis). They have done nothing to hold the Sinhala supremacist state accountable for their war crimes against the predominantly Hindu Tamils of Tamil Eelam.

  48. now sandeep ghose gossips that adani might buy ‘the hindu’. my god, who took away my curd rice???

  49. seriously, i feel sambit patra should start a side career in bengali films as the new utpal dutt. he fits the role perfectly with his cold diabolical dialogues and frog eyes.

  50. Extremely interesting article.
    Some excerpts.

    How Brown People Run The White Empire

    When I came in through UK immigration most of the people manning it were brown. When I applied for visas they were all brown. When I get here there’s a brown man in line for Prime Minister. Upper caste brown people are just the latest people in line for whiteness. We’ve clambered up the ladder to kick down; never, ever to flip it over and share the ground.

    This all seems new and unusual, but it’s not. Brown people were always administering the White Empire, they never stopped administering it, and the same bad medicine is still going down. Our troops were the boots of the East India Company, the mace of the Queen, the enforcers for the white man against our own people. Our elites were the rulers of neutered kingdoms, traders of stolen goods, getting paid off with wealth plundered from our own land*.

    As much as I talk about how what white people have done to us, the fact is that brown people have done to us. The fact is that as much as they put us down, we never stood up. Divide and conquer was a hell of a tactic. We still fight among ourselves—our proximate neighbors like Muslims or Tamils or China or whoever—and never once focus our attention on Whitey. Why beat ’em if you can join ’em? Beat the other colored man and become whitey.

    Irish have gone from being neighborhood beat cops to politicians passing ‘crime’ bills that have incarcerated the most people (mostly colored people) in human history. Irish people—once oppressed in Ireland and then in America—have become part of the oppressing race. It’s the American Dream.

    Upper-caste brown people (whatever that means) are on the same trajectory. In business, we have taken over institutions like Microsoft and Google and Twitter while their dilettante white creators run off and drop acid. In politics, we’re Vice President in the United States (Kamala Harris’s mother comes via Chennai) and possible Prime Minister in the UK. We’ve got to the top of the ladder and we didn’t get there by resisting whiteness. We got there by preserving it. By becoming it. The one rule of climbing the ladder is that you must kick down most viciously.

    Within the conventional thinking about ‘racism’ it is impossible that brown people could preserve it, that is literally getting colors wrong. And yet brown is white. We’re the next in line for whiteness, just as the previously denigrated Irish were last century.

    The fact is that the real color of whiteness is invisibility. When a brown man can ‘run’ for Prime Minister with little mention, his ‘race’ has already started to disappear.

    My comment
    * The Tata’s are a good example. Opium merchants in China. Britain and us did the gun boat diplomacy i.e. forcing China to accept Opium as payment for its industrial goods thru gun boat diplomacy. The Indian merchants such as Tatas were the wholesale drug dealers, selling Indian Opium in China.

    full article here

    1. I think the “white empire” is probably news to most white people, who don’t see the benefits from it. (I’m generally skeptical of the received notion in India that the West got rich from colonsiation. It doesn’t explain countries like Finland, Czech Republic, Austria etc).

      Moreover, white nativists probably don’t like seeing more non-white immigrants every year. So terming it “white empire” is probably misleading because its main function isn’t to promote a race but the economic interests of an oligarchy. These oligarchs make common cause with oligarchs in other parts of the world, e.g. Ambani’s properties in London and so on.

      Had India industrialised faster (and seen a faster fertility decline) then brown oligarchs would have imported poorer white labour to India. Would that have been a “brown empire”?

      1. I agree. To me this brown vs white narrative, very prevalent in diaspora but also in India is utter nonsense. There is no great white conspiracy to keep oppressing us browns. Living in the West, it is very clear that upper and middle class whites actually hate lower class whites more than any group. New York white liberal vs Appalachian white or London vs North England. And if anything, the upper class whites see educated brown immigrants in the West as part of their coalition.

        A comparison can be made to the dynamics between upper caste Indians and lower caste Indians a few decades ago and how much the upper caste Indians would prefer to associate with whites than low caste Indians. The rise of Hindutva/Indian nationalism has decreased caste dynamics to a large extent, but there is no such popular nationalism among whites.

        1. A comparison can be made to the dynamics between upper caste Indians and lower caste Indians a few decades ago and how much the upper caste Indians would prefer to associate with whites than low caste Indians. The rise of Hindutva/Indian nationalism has decreased caste dynamics to a large extent, but there is no such popular nationalism among whites.

          I suspect this might change in Europe. The reason is similar as for India: rising Islamism. Islam until the 1970s or so was fairly moderate in the world (by Islamic standards), and then Wahhabism and other extremist ideologies began to be pushed by the Gulf states.

          This meant that upper-middle class Indians could no longer ignore slow-moving radicalisation not just in Pakistan but also even in Bangladesh and of course domestically.

          These factors don’t exist in North America: Latinx working-class immigrants are fairly Westernised already in their home countries and moslem immigrants tend to be fairly educated and liberal, so I they have no incentive to change.

          For European cosmopolitan liberals, it’s different. The moslem immigration is much bigger and thus harder to ignore. In addition, the geographic proximity means that these people can more easily go back even for the summer than e.g. a moslem immigrant in America or Australia.

          The big problem for these European liberal elites is that the social values of the white working class is much more conservative on feminism, LGBT etc. It would be very hard for “radlibs” to relinquish those issues. But if they were convinced that there was a genuine Islamist threat, they would probably bury the hatchet with the white working class at least temporarily. We’re already seeing incipient signs of this in countries like France.

          1. I don’t think the European white working class will be able to defend their somewhat conservative social views against both white liberals and Muslims. They don’t have the political or economic capital to do that. And European white working class are already extremely liberal by global standards. Very few among them oppose gay rights or women’s rights. For them it’s not a question of whether gays have a right to exist as it might be for an average Iraqi but whether gay sex should be taught in elementary schools. If they could come around to the former view, they will definetely come around to the latter one. And even the far right parties of Western Europe dominated by the white working class have LGBT wings. These people hate foreign Muslims more than their richer brethren.

            I think what will happen in the coming decades is that the white working class will just end up adopting the views of upper class whites on social issues. Both groups will fuse together to become one voting bloc. Extremely liberal with regards to in group LGBT and women, but extremely xenophobic towards outgroup Muslims. Also isn’t that what is happening with Hindutva in India? It undertake progressive reforms wrt to women/Dalits but is anti-Muslim.

      2. principia
        I think the “white empire” is probably news to most white people, who don’t see the benefits from it.
        I agree the use of “white empire” is a misnomer. It should be a global cosmopolitan elite, the new plutocracy albeit one in which (as yet) the majority is white, but changing fast.

        Moreover, white nativists probably don’t like seeing more non-white immigrants every year.
        Exactly, the “deplorable” non elite types do not like the new brown elite who become their overlords. Their is much resentment for even the brown doctor types who man the hospitals in US nd UK. The brown computer types are the equivalent of the brown clerks of the British Raj. Peons essentially, but still having significantly higher income than white nativists.
        To me the corollary is that US and UK have failed to educate its own, one of the many reasons its cheaper to import.

        I’m generally skeptical of the received notion in India that the West got rich from colonsiation. It doesn’t explain countries like Finland, Czech Republic, Austria etc
        I think three reasons
        a) The poor left Europe to settle in South and North Americas and Australia. Sweden was an extremely poor country, and then mid 1800’s half the population mainly peasants emigrated. eg 1.3 million to the US eg. Minnesota.
        b) Many such as Swiss and Austrians worked for the Colonial powers. The Swiss were famous for supplying mercenaries. They brought back money (and possibly loot) that was used as capital. No different from Sri Lankan unskilled and semi skilled workers bringing back 30% of SL foreign exchange.
        c) War and disease hollowed out Europes population and the remaining became richer. See link on that thesis below.

        Cruel windfall: How wars, plagues, and urban disease propelled Europe’s rise to riches
        In modern economic thinking, peace and prosperity go hand in hand. However, there are good reasons why in pre-modern societies, the opposite
        relationship held true – war, disease, and urban death spelled high incomes.
        This column explains why Europe’s rise to riches in the early modern period
        owed much to exceptionally bellicose international politics, urban
        overcrowding, and frequent epidemics.

        The Rise of the New Global Elite
        What is more relevant to our times, though, is that the rich of today are also different from the rich of yesterday. Our light-speed, globally connected economy has led to the rise of a new super-elite that consists, to a notable degree, of first- and second-generation wealth. Its members are hardworking, highly educated, jet-setting meritocrats who feel they are the deserving winners of a tough, worldwide economic competition—and many of them, as a result, have an ambivalent attitude toward those of us who didn’t succeed so spectacularly.
        Perhaps most noteworthy, they are becoming a transglobal community of peers who have more in common with one another than with their countrymen back home. Whether they maintain primary residences in New York or Hong Kong, Moscow or Mumbai, today’s super-rich are increasingly a nation unto themselves.

        Meanwhile, the vast majority of U.S. workers, however devoted and skilled at their jobs, have missed out on the windfalls of this winner-take-most economy—or worse, found their savings, employers, or professions ravaged by the same forces that have enriched the plutocratic elite.

        Swedish emigration to the United States
        While the land of the U.S. frontier was a magnet for the rural poor all over Europe, some factors encouraged Swedish emigration in particular. The religious repression practiced by the Swedish Lutheran State Church was widely resented, as was the social conservatism and class snobbery of the Swedish monarchy. Population growth and crop failures made conditions in the Swedish countryside increasingly bleak. By contrast, reports from early Swedish emigrants painted the American Midwest as an earthly paradise.

        Other Semi related link

      3. The argument is that eu countries like finland, sweden etc benefited by trading with neighbors like uk, fr and es who looted the colonies. There is some merit to this argument. The underlying reason is high HDI and high trust societies in eu.

        1. The underlying reason is high HDI and high trust societies in eu.
          Thats the cart before the horse. A century and more in the past these were poor illiterate countries. Think French revolution.
          Not much trust either, a lot of religious persecution. Obviously the Jews. Then there was protestant vs catholics. The Hugenots and the Quakers were some of the first emigrants to US because of persecution.
          A wealth of a country and economic stability increases, divisiveness takes a back seat. The flip side being is that as economic stability decreases divisiveness increases.
          Very obvious in SL. Incidents that would cause race riots in the past barely register even in the news. Thats even with some politicians trying to capitalize..

  51. for Siddharth mainly
    Tibet has the worst HDI of Chinas provinces. However it far far more better off than any South Asian country, even Sri Lanka.

    The Numbers:
    GDP per capita US$8,808 (SL the best in South Asia is ~USD4,000)
    GDP growth Increase 6.7%
    HDI (2019) Increase 0.608
    Life expectancy 72.9 (lowest in China, avg 77.3)
    Life expectancy (1935) 35.1
    Literacy 15-60 age group was 99.48% (a)
    Literacy 63% (lowest in China) (b)

    a) That means almost all those born after 1960 got educated
    b) Implies most born before 1960 were illiterate.

    I have no stand in Tibet Independence or Chinese claims.|
    However, Tibetan Buddhism has almost nothing of the agnostic Theravada Buddhist philosophy.

    I would go as far as saying Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism seems more like Hinduism, i.e. pre Buddhist gods have being incorporated into Tibetan Buddhism
    There is the same issue in SL too in Sri Lanka.
    However, there is some degree of seperation. Almosr all sinhalese Buddhists are aware that Agnostic Buddhist Philoshopy (Buddha Dharma) is incompatible with rituals and worship of pre Buddhist gods, many rebranded as Hindu gods . (eg In the deep south town of DeviNuwara, God Upulvan (who is in colour like the lotus) is now considered to be Vishnu.

    Some excerpts
    Many prefer not to talk about the Tibet under the Dalai Lamas. Belied by the enchanting charismatic smile and wonderfully pleasant personality of the 14th Dalai Lama, and under his and his predecessors’ direct political, social and religious leadership, Tibet was a feudal serfdom created by the integration of religion, politics and the dictatorship of monks and aristocrats

    the cocktail of religion and politics in the Dalai Lama’s Tibet was the guarantee of its feudal serf system. When their traditional indigenous animist and shamanistic belief systems lost out to the new progressive but agnostic Buddhism in the 8th Century AD, many Tibetans quickly embraced Buddhism and thus believe in an afterlife. Gradually, the monks of a revised “Tibetan” Buddhism, with the Dalai Lama as its Head, quickly became the overlords and made their Tibetan Buddhist believers their serfs — never mind that this was not in accordance with Buddha’s original Buddhist scriptural teachings or principles! Tibetan Buddhists are expected to work ungrudgingly for their spiritual masters, to whom they owe a blind devotion.

    The serfdom in Tibet controversy is a prolonged public disagreement over the extent and nature of serfdom in Tibet prior to the annexation of Tibet into the People’s Republic of China (PRC) in 1951. .

    More on the serfs or not in wiki link below.

    tibet seems clean,, reasonably prosperous.

    Inside a Tibetan Home!

    Tibet Rural Life: Remote and Quiet Tibetan Villag

    1. he rides on the now popular hindu belief that ait/amt is defeated. even koenraad elst does concede that ait/amt is not conclusively defeated.
      we need someone like razib to put across the ait/amt view in a ‘non technical’ sense so that the common hindu understands this.
      frawley’s paradox needs to be addressed.
      the idea of brushing aside talegeri’s work as coming from a bank clerk needs to be countered. his works needs to criticized for its content.
      parpola and others speaking of an ‘aryan language’ and not the race of people is confusing.
      this blog should put all these together for better clarity.

    1. That’s a good take. I’m surprised I never had an inkling of that rationale before. I feel dumb. Like I got the hustling from DEI companies and wanting to fake a public image for corps but never the litigation part.

      1. Richard Hanania has made this argument for a while now. He says a lot of these are based on executive orders that a Republican President could easily repeal. Trump repealed some, but only in the last days of his Presidency. Why he didn’t do so earlier is anyone’s guess.

    2. The study only concerns data from 1971 up to 2002 when US liberalism was much more “sane”, so it makes sense that the effects were limited or non-existent.

      The real question is what happens post-2016. My suspicion is that there’s much more blatant race-based discrimination going on against white men in particular but will probably be extended towards Asian men in time. This is already the case in universities but IMO it’s only a question of time until it hits Asian men in the workforce too.

      You can already see the initial inklings of this with the excessive focus on caste in recent years within the US media. Won’t be long until “upper-caste Indian men” will be treated as badly as white men in the media – or perhaps worse.

  52. regarding ghulam nabi azad’s resignation:
    in my opinion the main reason why the party is not winning and that there is confusion in the ranks is the fact that congress does not have an ideology and in general does not know what it stands for.
    now a a p:
    a a p’s platform will fall flat out of delhi, where it is essentially running a municipality. if this party is an alternative to bjp, the party needs to be questioned on foreign policy, privatisation of state enterprises, ‘ secularism’, ‘ freebies’, etc.
    as such it is taking congress’ space and acts like bjp’s b team.

  53. @Razib


    Death of merit. Supreme Court is about strike down hidden quota based admissions , where it is clear some groups can score entire standard deviation lower and get same admit results. The solution and also a way to inflate incoming score stats is to make it so some groups don’t even have to submit a score. This is disturbing.

    At least in India, reservations are clear. American elite higher ED is in the business of gaslighting.

  54. Visited Mumbai last week for the first time since 2019.

    I have mixed views about the city. It definitely has some kind of energy. People mind their own business. Only city where people follow lane discipline and general traffic etiquettes.

    But it’s also a very sad place. Half the buildings are decaying, People are jostling crowded like insects. The economic disparity is very very stark. Doesn’t hit you like that anywhere else.

    Few questions and general observations:
    1. Why are buildings decaying?
    Is it the sea? But then why is that not the case in say Chennai or any of the other large coastal cities in the world?
    Is it old money not being able to manage upkeep?
    Extreme under-investment in infrastructure?

    2. I have noticed that most folks from my cohort in college have left Mumbai. Most are in the US but those in India are primarily in Bangalore or NCR.

    Seems Mumbai has been left behind in the tech race and finance is not that lucrative of an industry anymore.

    Is Mumbai going to decline as a city?

    3. One question everyone seems to be talking about is what is ailing Bollywood. There’s a bit of gloom in those filmmaking circles. Also a fair bit of schadenfreude.

    My friend who’s a movie maker believes that pandemic has fundamentally changed Indian audiences. People have consumed so much new kind of content that they are never going to go back to Bollywood.

    Like all outsiders, he dislikes the old guard and is happy that this is happening. It’s opened up good business opportunities for him on OTT platforms.

    What do you guys think?

    4. A lot of people that ‘people like us’ think are living mundane meaningless lives actually harbour ambitions.
    Met this Uber driver from Kota who had dropped out of college to pursue magic as a career. His company went bankrupt due to floods. So he had to resort to driving cabs.
    He’s also a dancer and a musician. Writes and sings in Hindi, Marwari, Punjabi.
    He’s saved some money now and is going to give another shot to his music career now.
    I’d have written this as a one off Kaushik Basu type experience but I’ve seen this quite often. The guard in my building in Bangalore used to be a trilingual rapper in Nepali/Kannada/Hindi. He’d even written a concept album and was looking for someone to produce it.
    My building guard in Noida is also an aspiring rapper and has some 500 followers on Instagram.

    Couple of thoughts here:
    a. Rap music resonates a lot with this strata of young lower middle class men.
    b. There is some opportunity to bring these folks into more formal economy. The Uber driver was borrowing money at 3% /month of interest. He was also not insured.
    How does one do that?

    1. Why are buildings decaying?
      apart from sea, rains adds to the problem of building decay. the joint ownership patterns as in housing societies may not be very successful.
      bangalore will have this problem in 15-20 years.
      to be very honest, bombay was not an visually attractive city. its attraction was in the scope of providing lively hood to all. now all of india’s cities have become like ‘bombay’ of the yore. most big cities are cosmopolitan and all have migrants from elsewhere. even chennai has changed beyond recognition in this regard.

    2. 1. decaying buildings is partly due to rent controls


      my dad inherited a pretty decent place there and it just sits empty because he is scared to rent it out. Its a dysfunctional system.

      Also there is the issues of ‘FSI’ which results in slums because the city is an island.


    3. Your point about Mumbai being behind in the tech race and Bollywood’s hiccups are actually connected. Many people forget that Hyderabad is the second biggest tech hub in the country. Modern movies are fundamentally driven by tech, and the director in many ways is directing the VFX personnel more than the actors themselves.

      See this video about the tiger scene in RRR for example:

      It is all Rajamouli and the tech artists. The actors are not in the picture, quite literally.

    4. Some of my family has been occupying the top floor (we jokingly call it Penthouse) and terrace of a building in Tollygunge, Kolkata for over 80 years. The rent is a few hundred rupees, the building is decaying, some folks in the building still get water from bhishtis in mashak (goat skin bag). This building also has a pulley thing to bring up drinking water. Ten years ago the owners would have paid 2.5 lakh+ to the tenant (i.e. my aunt) to vacate the property, would be much more now. The whole place is a circus populated by dhoti wearing Baman, cab driver, beautician, cook, rikshaw puller… I used to love going there on vacations.

      Landlords are also quite benign, having accepted that things won’t change. Most of the times larger buildings are caught in a court cases about inheritance. The rents are too low for upkeep and owners are waiting for the building to collapse so they can sell the land. Tenants stay because these places are usually closer to important thoroughfares, transport links and places of work. Tenants are multi generational, four generations of my father’s first cousin’s family have lived there. Places like Kolkata and Mumbai can be cruel and unforgiving. Having social bonds is India’s emergency services subscription. Over time the relations with the village/town fray and these neighbors are all that remain for many people.

      Decay is also due to the poor quality paint and shitty Indian masonry. Most Indians don’t get their roofs tiled, or covered in asphalt, a cement roof will leak no matter what you do. That is why all Indian homes have rain water seepage and peeling paint. A lot of folks in Chennai and Bangalore do get their roofs tiled.

      My friend lived in ‘ancient’ chawl when they began their IT jobs in Mumbai. For 7K/month it is excellent value for money.

    1. @warlock
      This is sadly not as rare as one would imagine. In fact I’ve seen more of this racism from diaspora Sikhs than even Pakistanis. Sikhs have gotten a total pass on their genocide of muslims during partition (i realise it was bilateral, but they slyly maintain silence when it’s implied that Hindus were equal participants). They can’t play victim, be genocide deniers, shift blame to Hindus, and then be outrageously racist as a cherry on top. Its gotten to a point where this needs to be pursued through institutional channels in the west. These Khalistani groups shouldn’t be held accountable on the basis of separatism, but on the basis of hate speech, as long as such laws are on the books and are being weaponized against other Indians. I say this as someone with admiration for the Sikh community broadly and great friends there, but the diaspora encourages some nonsense which is enabled by clueless liberals.

      1. Sikh Punjabis are radically different from the average Gangetic Indian or some weak-limbed Gujarati. Due to their superior steppe genes, they are well respected for their martial talents. Brahmins in the UP are basically 1% of the population, the peasant Sikh Jat constituted a far greater portion of the pre-1980 Punjabi population and had very high steppe. Not only this, their superior sexual morals are also well studied. According to the latest NFHS data (2019-21), only less than 10% of the average Sikh Jat male and female has indulged in premarital sexual activity….whereas for even upper-caste Gujaratis, the rate is well over 35%. Such is the glorious difference between the Sikh and the Hindu. No wonder why the existence of Khalistan is violently demanded by diaspora Sikhs, they are merely reiterating their hidden desires. 90% of Sikhs in Punjab also want Khalistan but they can’t it say out loud while they are suffering in India.

      2. I know people on here do not believe in Biradri ethnosupremacy in S Asia. I think it is still there, but there are enough other groups to keep it in check and give it a bloody nose. In America, it runs more rampantly. This is most pronounced in the Central Valley of California. Razib has seen it first hand. There are segments of that population who view other S Asians as literal subhumans, especially those with greater AASI (I know that most don’t know percentages but surrogate markers of it- eg. darker skin, tropical features, etc).

        1. this kind of ethnoracial supremacy among Punjabis is also common to encounter in the Greater Toronto Area. of course many of them are normal and great, but there’s definitely a subset of young-ish (15-40) men who are like this, and they are vocal and prone to violence.

      3. “They can’t play victim, be genocide deniers, shift blame to Hindus, and then be outrageously racist as a cherry on top.”

        You have described every non-Hindu group in the subcontinent.

      4. At some point you begin to wonder whether Pakistan has the right approach when it comes to the Sikhs. They are denied basic rights, they cannot become the Prime Minister of the country as a matter of law, many of their places of worship damaged, their women abducted and converted… and yet you don’t hear a peep about Pakistan from the Sikhs.

        Maybe Pakistan is doing something right. Alternatively, maybe it’s being dominated by AASI-shifted subhumans that really sets them off.

      5. girmit

        In fact I’ve seen more of this racism from diaspora Sikhs than even Pakistanis.
        i have yet to hear of a Sri Lankan, Sinhalese of Tamil complain about Sikhs.

        From the few first hand Sinhalese reports, they seem to get on fine. Both Sikhs and Sinhalese being hard drinking, beef eating party animals might be a big factor.

        Or maybe because many are singh or singhe.

  55. A week back, few Indian-American women faced racist attacks in Texas


    ‘The ladies being abused here are Hindu, Indian, Bengali Americans. Approached by Hindu groups wanting to help. They rejected them saying, “We want nothing to do with you Hindutva types.” Instead they took the help of CAIR as fellow “brown” Sooth Asians. Held a Presser with CAIR.’

    1. CAIR inserted themselves, the press conference thing has been debunked.
      That said, the son of one of the women, asked Hindu organizations to refrain from using the incident ..”we will not be used for your nationalist causes”. He got ratioed on Twitter and had to delete the tweet. He is a non-profit, volunteer type guy, so this is probably a calculated move to further his career .

      1. Well i wouldn’t have been surprised, had the case been true.
        Especially, considering the ethnicity of the folks involved.

  56. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11162895/Hey-pick-bean-burrito-leave-California-man-arrested-racist-rant-Taco-Bell.html

    ‘Pick up your bean burrito and leave… this ain’t India’: Taco bell customer, 37, is arrested for vile racist rant branding Hindu man the N-word and spitting at him for not getting beef burrito

    Krishnan Jayaraman was at a Taco Bell in Fremont, in the Bay Area, on August 21 when he was confronted by Singh Tejinder
    Tejinder, 37, of Union City, California, hurled racist abuse at Jayaraman, insulting Indian people and ranting about vegetarianism

    Tejinder was charged with a hate crime and gave his identity in charging documents as ‘Asian/Indian’

    It is thought that Tejinder is a supporter of an Indian separatist movement

    1. Indians complain about Sri Lanka playing both sides but then go and play both sides. Its what weaker countries do to survive, nothing more to it. I find some of the previous comments here, mad at Sri Lanka for allowing the Chinese ship to dock, quite funny. Its not very different from what Americans felt about India wrt to Ukraine.

      1. India under Modi and other third world countries see the writing on the wall. The world order is changing and many are hedging their bets.

        Even India and China sabre rattling is a lot of kabuki theater. Ladakh incident was a nothing burger, a few farts and no shit. Even the 1960 Sino India was nothing at all.

  57. Average life expectancy decreased by 2.7 years, 76.1
    Native Americans a 6.6 year drop compared
    black and Hispanic 4 year drop
    White people 2.4 year drop

    most of the decline in life expectancy took place during the first year of the pandemic for nonwhite populations, while white Americans suffered the worst losses during the second year.
    the primary factor in driving down life expectancy was the Covid-19 pandemic, which has contributed to the deaths of over one million Americans. “Unintentional injuries” – a category that includes overdoses and other drug-related misadventures
    The wonders of privatized medicine


    1. I wonder if there is some quirk of statistics going on. The US for instance calculates infant mortality rate differently than other countries counting deaths of premature babies as infant mortality, which boosts mortality rates. And there are more premature babies in the US because parents are less willing to get abortion. IIRC, in Europe at least on the other hand it’s not counted as part of the mortality rate. There are also some other statistical factors which artificially boosts the infant mortality rate in the US.

      Of course, the life expectancy could be completely accurate given how fat this country is and how much drugs we consume.

      1. I wonder if there is some quirk of statistics going on. The US for instance calculates infant mortality rate differently than other countries counting deaths of premature babies as infant mortality, which boosts mortality rates.

        It really does not matter re methodology if is consistent. You look at trend and if there is an anomaly like the dip in life expectancy, you figure out why.

        To compare countries with different methodologies, you compare trends over period of time*.

        There are known instances where methodology changes.
        eg1: About decade ago UK and Netherlands started including estimates of illegal prostitution and illegal drug trade into their GDP calculations (not believable noh). Most likely to bring down Debt/GDP ratio.

        eg2: Dow Jones. Ever so often DJI will drop companies that are doing badly and replace with companies doing well. So it appears the DJI is consistently increasing.

        *This was a statistical trick I learned in another life decades ago. Simple example you compare estimates of rainfall from rain gauge vs rainfall from satellite cloud imagery. At times you see changes in rainfall, often due to that area being built up (urban heat island effect). I was not interested in that particular problem per se but read much of the research in resolving the issues and used it for my own work. Using different different satellite images to estimate ocean parameters.
        Even in a different area that knowledge came in useful. Wall Street; Bond and Derivative Analysis to estimate credit curves. I was just lowly number cruncher, it was the traders who used the analysis, who made the big bucks.

      2. Illegal drugs and prostitution boosted the UK economy by £9.7bn – equal to 0.7% of gross domestic product – in 2009, according to the ONS’s first official estimate.

        Netherlands includes its drug trade of about EUR 2.5 billion in its GDP.

        Italy just outdid them all by including Drugs, prostitution and smuggling as a part of GDP calculations


        The decision committee of the DJIA evaluates several factors before making a decision to remove or add companies to the index. Commenting on the index’s decision to remove Exxon and retain Chevron, Goldman Sachs’ Neil Mehta said that the index committee decided to keep Chevron because it has better FCF generation, stronger balance sheet and better operational and earnings execution.


    1. The least a migrant can do in my opinion is to display loyalty to their new country. Mexicans in the US supporting Team Mexico or Indians in the UK supporting Team India over the country they actually live in can be considered treasonous behavior. Particularly so if you are second generation. Not legally but spiritually/morally. But the Western elites don’t have any loyalty to their own countries either so it all works out.

    2. Something hilarious about subcontinentals brawling over a sport that the British empire introduced to their respective homelands… in the UK several centuries later. Perhaps even a bit poetic.

      Anyway, looks like a pretty minor affair and of course various RW hysteria accounts will blow it up like some mini-civil war (as they always do). Mostly just looks like bored young men trying to find an excuse to timepass.

    1. I have to embarrassingly admit that before I started reading this blog I didn’t realize that the right wing Hindutva ideology was anti-caste or at the very least inclusive of various castes.

      I just assumed a sort of republican / Democrat type dynamic. The Indian political landscape is a much, much more complicated.

      1. Shekhar Gupta has this quote, Can Hindutva unite what caste divides, or can Caste divide what Hindutva unites, decides Indian politics.

        Mandal vs Kamandal

    2. Trust me regionalism-casteism-communism-communalism in India were far worse 20 years ago.

      So much intermarrying happening across caste and region lines, this whole thing will get sorted in time.

      1. I sometimes even meet few Tamils/Bongs who are Indian nationalists.

        I mean, who would have thought that, 20 years back?

  58. India just crossed/equalled uk gdp. A significant event. India in publishing scientific papers is now in top 10. Also a significant development.

  59. https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/why-western-compliments-are-so-confusing-for-others-11662309442708.html

    a great article.

    “It never so happens that a Russian or a Turk or a Syrian is first loved in Bolivia or India or South Africa. Or that Thailand gives a prize to an exceptional Brazilian. ‘International’ adoration emanates only from the West. When a person is loved more outside his nation, it means only one thing—that the West likes him.”

    “The West is not only a bloc of nations in North America and Western Europe, but also a highly successful theology, with a sophisticated system of transmission. It has a monopoly over the idea of goodness, and also the capacity to transmit it across the world. And every now and then, the West extols a politician, activist or artist who has done something agreeable. What is extraordinary about most such tributes in the modern world is that the subject of Western adulation is almost always reviled by his or her own countrymen or not taken so seriously by them.

    At first glance, it may appear that Mohandas Gandhi was an exception. His stardom in Britain was not contradicted in India. Yes, there were Indians who disliked him; he was even assassinated by one whose ideology has gone mainstream, but it would be hard to argue that Gandhi was reviled in India. He was loved in his time, and is loved as much today out of national habit. But the global consensus on Gandhi is a feature of his time. His stardom in Britain contributed to his rise in India, to his initial stature. A bit like how, years later, the Caucasian ethnicity of Mother Teresa was crucial to her legend. The fame of Gandhi is more a reflection of the power of Western transmission in a simpler time when information was controlled by a small elite. In a more democratic world, a Gandhi cannot happen—that is, a public figure who is adored by both the West and by his or her own people.

    The principle works with hate too. There are politicians who are hated more outside their nations than within. In fact, some of these leaders are wildly popular in their home countries. They are also known as “strongmen”. And the foreigners who hate them are, at first, the West, who then transmit that hate across the world.

    Before he attacked Ukraine, Russian president Vladimir Putin was a man who was hated more outside his nation than within. Now, it is unclear whether he has retained his popularity in Russia. The Burmese aristocrat, Aung San Suu kyi, was at first loved more in the Westernized world than in her own nation. Today, she is despised more in the West than in her own nation.

    A global emotion, it appears, is always moral, with low stakes; a local emotion is always grey with high stakes.

    1. Gandhi came to be universally admired in the West well after India became independence. This is what the most popular man in the West thought of him,
      “He ought to be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back.” – Churchill

      Shahid Amin’s Making of the Mahatma is a good source to start understanding how Gandhi became popular among the Indian masses.

  60. Visited Chennai this weekend. Been to the city 3-4 times now but haven’t really explored it much.

    My Tamil friend who studied up north before going back has now become a full on Dravidian. He believes MK Stalin is not Dravidian enough.

    Oddly enough, he’s also become more “Hindu” in that he believes India shouldn’t be so secular. And thinks that Rahul Gandhi can never truly understand India because among other things he is a ‘Christian’.

    But he still dislikes Modi or at least wants an alternative.

    It seems there’s a non-Hindutva Hindu identity in TN. So I’ll give points to Ugra on this over Saurav.

    Chennai seems much better than Mumbai as far as infra and general greenery is concerned.

    Even Tam Brahm weddings now play Punjabi songs. But it’s interesting how multilingual wedding music is these days.
    You get to hear Hindi, Punjabi, Telugu, Marathi. And then someone will ‘ironically’ play a Bhojpuri song as well.

    1. @prats
      I think that “hindu” masks two different concepts in the south vs north. In former it is a kind of ethnocentrism, and in the latter closer to an actual confessional identity. Consider that a UPite hindu and muslim appear very similar to a southerner, but in their own region, a muslim is highly distinct. By language, dress, and often by phenotype.
      In the cultural politics of the north, because of how similar culturally both groups are, hindu advocates apply loyalty tests to their own group, eg whether you eat beef ect. I imagine that if not for a few of these habits, not much keeps an individual from passing convincingly as the other. Commonality of language allows for religious idioms to be widely understood by both groups. This is not nearly as easy in most parts of the South (kerala maybe an exception). So in a sense, the idea that one has an inner self that’s possibly muslim, is quite far fetched to most, let alone struggling with it.
      Final thought, people really underestimate how ethnocentric South Indians are. It runs counter to the idea that high literacy, english proficiency or proximity to the coast leads to openness. We bang cousins. (At least until very recently). This deep contrast of cultural attitudes of North vs South in this matter can explain a lot. Might even hold clues as to why conversion rates to Islam in the south were so low even in regions with long-standing political presence. Endogamy limits the ability for marriage alliances between elites to change cultural paradigms.

      1. In terms of ethnic differences between Hindus and non-Hindus in South India, I think there is some nuance there. Ethnically Dravidian Muslims (and virtually all Christians) are not viewed as being of a different ethnicity. Urdu-speaking Muslim communities across South India are quite distinctive and different. This contributes to your perception of Kerala as well, where most of the Muslims are ethnically Dravidian, unlike much of Telangana, Karnataka, and northern Tamil Nadu, where they are Urdu-speaking communities.

        I’ve never sensed any difference of ethnicity among Christians and Hindus in South India, even if there are tensions between the communities at times.

        I would also note that surveys indicate that SIs are on average less averse to inter-religious marriages.

        I think you are correct that South Indians are quite ethnocentric. South Indians’ liberal-ness and progressiveness is not always genuine. Sometimes the real goal is more autonomy, which at the union level manifests itself as a laissez faire approach to social policy. Sometimes it’s because SIs define themselves vis-a-vis the more populous North in the way Canadians define themselves vis-a-vis the US. It is important for Canadians to be more progressive than Americans, it’s a sort of left-wing nationalism and feeds a sense of superiority.

    1. Lmao, Brits allowed thousands of their own children to be groomed and raped by Islamist gangs. So they would rather kill their own mother than adopt the “American” concept of allowing law abiding citizens to defend themselves. Its a hopeless country.

  61. some karnataka notes:
    1. 99.5% of bangalore is yet to drown. my rajastani friends were worried for our safety.
    2. native sons of soil, should not react emotionally if a few ‘northies’ bad mouth the city. i feel that if they leave the city, the others should not take it ‘personally’.
    3. murugha mutt case is becoming increasingly murky. girmit and bhumiputra can comment if the backlash will pull the lingayats back deep into ‘hindu fold’.
    4. umesh katti, who was a votary for state’s division died yesterday.

      1. at the aam janata level it is 100%, i.e they identify with hindus generally and not with muslims and christians. few idealogues claim seperateness similar to sikhs and jains.

  62. Some queries about South Asian ancestry for Razib:

    How much Anatolian/Anatolia and CHG ancestry do South Asians have, particularly in the North and Northwest?

    Can someone breakdown the math here:

    The Harappa Ancestry Project has a “ South Indian” component, which is apparently 50% West Eurasian and 50% East Eurasian, or ASI. Initially people thought the ASI was fully East Eurasian.

    Now I realize that since then, we have further refined ASI into AASI and Iran-related ancestry, the question is, what ratio is this ancestry present in?

    Is ASI 33% West Eurasian and 66% AASI? Or is it 30% West Eurasian and 70% AASI? I’ve heard both numbers quoted and wanted to confirm.

    Finally, I’ve read that AASI, particularly in the NW, has residual West Eurasian affinity as well, from ANE admixture. Do we know anything about this in terms of raw numbers?

    So if someone starts out with 40% South Indian, they would be 20% ASI, of which 33% is West Eurasian, so they would be around 13.4% AASI or East Eurasian, and 86.6% West Eurasian. Is this correct?

    If anyone has input, please chime in. Thanks all.

      1. It’s all about being thorough. The initial estimates had ASI at 25% West Eurasian and 75% AASI, then it was adjusted to 30% West Eurasian and 70% AASI and finally it was fine tuned to 33% West Eurasian and 66% AASI, or so I’ve heard — I need to confirm this breakdown with other folks.

        I’ve also heard that AASI has some West Eurasian admixture baked into it as well — both from ANE and other sources— with the NW AASI strain having even more so of this West Eurasian admixture. So I think the West Eurasian-ness of South Asians is yet to be fully deciphered. Percentages of West Eurasian will go up across the board for all South Asians, and particularly so for the NW.

        Appreciate opinions and info.

  63. the pak-afghan fracas in sharja brings into open the understanding of the two peoples with respect to the afghan situation. looks like this is similar to the india-bangladesh understanding wrt 1971 war.

  64. The sheer arrogance of west, death of queen and even defense by taleb and more, its pissing me off. But best revenge as they say is a massive success. I cant wait for us being superpower in 50 yrs time. I promise to live that long and die only then.

  65. Most of Britsh populace accusation on the Royal family and fake pretense of being anti monarchists, would make one believe that they had somehow no role in colonization and they didn’t benefit at all. The royal family sort of takes all the blame, while the sweet sweet folks of Britan are totally without fault.

    Its a bit like how back in India, we hide behind our freedom struggle, conveniently forgetting how for the most part we were collaborators to our own colonization.

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