52 thoughts on “Open Thread – Brown Pundits”

      1. Looking forward to that. However, I’m very happy to have been forced to find this site. I enjoy all three of your sites, or soon will.

    1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48704352

      Former top policeman who blew whistle on Modi’s role in Gujarat massacres sentenced to life in prison on bogus charges.

      “Riots erupted in Gujarat after 60 Hindu pilgrims died in a train fire.”

      They did not just “die”. They did nothing wrong. They were all karsevaks burnt to death by an angry MUSLIM mob.


      Listen to the full story of Sanjeev Bhatt starting 5:50


      at 8:02

      All the charges by Bhatt against Modi and Shah were dismissed by the Supreme Court.

      Sanjeev Bhatt has been jailed in the custodial torture and subsequent death of Prahbhudas Vaishani circa 1990. Bhatt was dismissed from the police force for financial wrongdoing. Bhatt has also been implicated in framing false drug possession charges against Sumer Sing Raj Purohit.

      In short, Bhatt has not been jailed for supposedly “blowing the whistle” on the then Gujarat Chief Minister Modi as reported by the BBC. He has had every chance to defend himself in front an independent Judiciary from the district level all the way up to the Supreme Court in the world’s largest democracy.

      1. The theory that Muslims are responsible for the train fire that killed Hindus is not accepted outside of India. Neither is the idea that the BJP and their goons were properly investigated/tried by the courts.

        India is a democracy, much like South-Africa is a democracy. Meaning, yes, people vote, but their institutions (like courts) suffer from the same 3rd world maladies (rampant corruption, partiality, lack of independence, etc).

        More esteemed international organizations have looked at the evidence and concluded Modi and his goons engaged in wanton massacre of Muslims, and those who stood against their barbarism were silenced by the same “courts” that abetted the crime. Not for nothing was Modi banned from entering the US for his involvement (prior to his election).

        Your video is in Hindi which I don’t speak, but a cursory glance at the English reporting (which the BBC hints at) shows Bhatt was jailed for nonsense allegations that are impossible to prove or disprove, in a farcical campaign against him that “coincidentally” began after he spoke out against Modi.

        1. “Your video is in Hindi which I don’t speak, but a cursory glance at the English reporting (which the BBC hints at) ,”


          There are plenty of English videos/articles out there on the Sanjeev Bhatt matter. The Hindi speakers on this list can verify my translations about the Supreme Court rulings against Sanjeev Bhatt.

        2. “Modi and his goons engaged in wanton massacre of Muslims”

          Modi was investigated for gross negligence, not willful participation. And next time, instead of making vague appeals to authority, you should at least answer the following:

          1) Who exactly are the “more esteemed international organizations”?
          2) What are the actual claims they are making?
          3) What is the evidence for their claims?

          Then people can draw their own conclusions one way or another.

          “Not for nothing was Modi banned from entering the US for his involvement”

          But this was a political act driven by domestic lobbying and not a judicial decision (indeed it occurred years before the investigations and judicial proceedings were completed) so I’m not sure why this matters.

  1. I would like a chance to write an essay for Brown Pundits on the Sanskritist, Classicist and anti-modernist reactionary Revilo P. Oliver, who is little known today, but was a giant of white nationalist, anti-Christian and anti-communist thought in mid-century America. I also hope to trace the connections between white nationalists, supremacists and the burgeoning field of Indology, Sanskrit studies and Indo-Aryan studies in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

      1. Another name which I was trying to remember was Walter Wust , a Vedcist , sanskrit scholor and a regular Nazi, and rector of Uni of Munich

    1. In the 1920s and 30s some German indologists symphathised with Nazis. Jakob Hauer was one. Himmler imagined himself to be a Kshatriya. This has spawned quite a few books. You can also add Julius Evola and Savitri Devi. The last one was a class by herself.

    2. I have a sinking feeling that this guy’s (Revilo) scholarship may be more rigorous than that of present-day Indologists…

  2. PTM Longmarch to the UN Headquarter


    “The slow genocide of Pashtuns in Pakistan, the ongoing curfew in North Waziristan, illigal (sic) detention of PTM workers and the massacare (sic) in Khar-Qamar N-Waziristan left the Human rights group no other choice than going to the UN headquarters in order to seek justice.”

  3. https://www.amazon.com/Nay-Science-History-German-Indology/dp/0199931364

    The Nay Science: A History of German Indology Paperback – July 2, 2014
    by Vishwa Adluri (Author), Joydeep Bagchee (Author)

    “The Nay Science (a clever play on nescience, or ignorance) speaks to the institutional antagonism of 19th and early 20th century German Indologists towards ancient Indian scriptures, subsequently shaping a paradigm from which many Indologists CONTINUE to draw. Their assertion, backed by correspondences between Indologists and their own published works, is not so much a critique of Orientalism as it is a surgical evisceration of the scholarly field that has developed over nearly two centuries.”–OPEN Magazine (emphasis added)”

  4. https://twitter.com/hashtag/PashtunLongMarch2Geneva?src=hash

    This is very interesting and instructive. Unlike the Pakistanis, the Pashtuns seeking freedom from Punjabi oppression do not deny their pre Islamic history and consider Manzoor Pashteen as one in a long line of heroes that begins with the “1st Pakhtun” Zarathustra, going all the way back to the Varsagira war described in the Vedic and Avestan sources (check out the tweets from one Soma Chai above).

    They certainly hate the Mongols with whom they bitterly fought at the first battle of Panipat. For them language and ethnicity is far more important than religion. When one reads the Marxist historians’ version of history currently taught in Indian schools, all these things are glossed over and history is presented as a monolithic history of “Islamic” rule.

    Moreover, when the Pakistani army names their military assets, the Ghauris and the Babars are thought of as the SAME people and yet they BOTH are in their own way very distinct from the Punjabi generals who come up with these names!

    1. There is about as much support for “Pashtun independence” as there is for Tamil independence in India.

      These movements (which I’m fully supportive of), are aimed at addressing the human-rights abuses perpetrated by the Pak-military in the tribal areas, in the name of combating Jihadists. There are probably a few tribal groups who will try to squeeze autonomy concessions out of it, but they make up a tiny fraction of the Pashtun population in Pakistan.

      As for “Punjabi oppression”, this is a myth. Most of the soldiers stationed in these tribal areas are Pashtuns, just from different tribes/regions. Pakistan more or less follows the British strategy for managing the frontier, namely, having Pashtuns police (and brutalize) each other other.

    2. INDTHINGS is right…Pashtun (and Baloch) independence are nonstarters. And even if they had something to them, the Pakistani military is very talented at cutting short internal threats to its power.

      Things may change 50 years from now.

      Or they may not.

      1. I would say Pashtun nationilsm is still stronger than tamil Nationalism. It’s more similar to Khalistan/ Nagaland than tamil Nationalism.

        Also I don’t think the army ability is the question here. The Pashtuns are integrated enough in the Pakistani society for Pashtun nationalism to become a serious threat. That’s what army is banking on.

        1. There is no equivalent to Khalistani/Nagaland nationalism in Pakistan. Ethnic nationalism is not strong enough in a religious homogenous country.

          There isn’t an enemy country separating two wings of the country for however many miles.

          1. Well it depends on how you see it. The comparison I made with kahalistan has to with the fact that Pashtun nationalism has more support outside Pakistan than within Pakistani Pashtuns. It’s similar with Khalistan. Once in a while a Pakhtun Nationalist will be expected to Pakistan parliament and ditto for Khalistan.

            Khalistan is alleged to be supported by foreign elements and so is Pakhtun nationalism. So on and so forth

  5. Watched “Karachi Se Lahore” yesterday. Nice breezy comedy. It is surprising how fast Pakistani movie industry has come up. Movie certainly has finesse equaling any major world movie industry.

    The format and style of the movie is totally Bollywood though. Unless you pay attention you can be forgiven for mistaking it for any lighthearted caper coming out of Mumbai.

    The thing that surprised me most was the unabashed depiction of alcohol consumption. People drink freely; in parties, on beaches and such. Is alcohol really so freely available in Pakistan, or is it just cinematic license gone too far?

    1. “Watched “Karachi Se Lahore” yesterday. Nice breezy comedy.”

      ‘Lahore’ is a Serbian word which means ‘breeze’.

  6. Sanjoy Chakravorty in the BBC:
    “In a new book, The Truth About Us: The Politics of Information from Manu to Modi, I show how the social categories of religion and caste as they are perceived in modern-day India were developed during the British colonial rule, at a time when information was scarce and the coloniser’s power over information was absolute.

    This was done initially in the early 19th Century by elevating selected and convenient Brahman-Sanskrit texts like the Manusmriti to canonical status; the supposed origin of caste in the Rig Veda (most ancient religious text) was most likely added retroactively, after it was translated to English decades later.

    These categories were institutionalised in the mid to late 19th Century through the census. These were acts of convenience and simplification.
    What is now widely accepted as Hinduism was, in fact, an ideology (or, more accurately, a theory or fantasy) that is better called “Brahmanism”, that existed largely in textual (but not real) form and enunciated the interests of a small, Sanskrit-educated social group. ”

      1. “What is now widely accepted as Hinduism was, in fact, an ideology (or, more accurately, a theory or fantasy)”

        Lol, could you talk about any other religion as a “theory or fantasy”?

        What do those terms even mean in this context?

        1. His point is that it was the British who canonized certain Hindu scriptures such as “The Laws of Manu” and that modern understandings of Hinduism don’t date from time immemorial but rather from a relatively recent period. It’s not a particularly controversial point that it was the British who conceptualized “Hinduism” as a religion in the Western sense because that was the only way that they could understand it.

          1. Religion in the Western sense refers to faiths such as Christianity or Islam where there is one defined scripture, a priesthood etc. Hinduism wasn’t defined that way so perhaps that is why British scholars attempted to canonize certain texts such as “The Laws of Manu” and let Brahmins define what Hinduism was. Apparently Rammohan Roy, who was deeply influenced by both Islam and British Unitarianism, was the first to use “Hinduism” to refer to a pan-Indian set of religious practices. (https://rlp.hds.harvard.edu/religions/hinduism/evolution-hinduism)

            Also, the British census used to place everyone who didn’t specify that they were Christian or Muslim into a default “Hindu” category, which may not have matched the individual’s own self-identification.

  7. Rule of thumb, the more distance you travel from the Hindi heartland the less “Hindu” the region becomes , and that also proportionate to their understanding of Hinduism.

    1. Saurav, I find that Tamil Nadu and the south are the most “Hindu” parts of India. Not that Assam and other places are not.

      1. Just have to say, politics is downstream of culture. You need just to look at the politics of different region to understand where the culture of any region in India really is.

        1. Just have to say, politics is downstream of culture.

          Breitbart’s theory is not a good fit for India. Indian politics follows the patronage model (with feudal underpinnings) rather than the ideological model that has evolved in rich advanced societies that know no material want and have no resource competition (I’m exaggerating a little bit.)

          If you want to understand the south, I’d suggest spending some time in it rather than viewing it through Periyar’s writings and speeches.

    2. ” the more distance you travel from the Hindi heartland the less “Hindu” the region becomes , and that also proportionate to their understanding of Hinduism. ”

      How did this stupid comment get 5 likes?

      Have you ever been to any place in India that’s not “cow-belt”, Delhi, Mumbai, or Kolkata?

      1. I have Sir, and perhaps the reason it has 5 likes (not that i really care) could be because deep down we know its true (even thought we don’t say it openly)

  8. watched 30 minutes of *leila* at airport. seems like a *handmaid’s tale* knockoff (never watched *handmaid’s tale*). wouldn’t recommend.

    1. Swapan Dasgupta is a good man. We could use more people like him in Indian politics.

    2. “The few articulate views on the Hindu right on the rise of right in India”

      Labored brown sahib accent. Worthless unoriginal opinions. Total waste of time.

  9. Well, where we are up to?

    Hinduism is a fantasy?
    Caste were introduced by Poms to divide and easier manipulate one segment of population against the other, to prevent them to think about colonizers?
    Rig Veda was rigged and backdated? Maybe even Manusmriti, but definitely everything after that up to today (Modi)?

    We will also go back to the future and study Indo-Germanishe indologists from Nazi era? Maybe we will finally discover who were guys from the grassland (steppe). Have they spoken IG or Indo-European? Did they bring slavery or feudalism considering that castes did not exist? Or, maybe they were communists? Maybe, they were only nomads-cattlemen (otherwise what they would be doing in a grassland) and just settled into existing system? Most likely, they did not exist at all, just another English setup.

    Now, it’s time. For guys with non-erroneous theories who know the knowledge. Come forward, stop hiding behind initials. It’s time for both, ait and oip. Beforehand, read Chinese about ‘northern people’ or ask Japanese about 500 (and counting) grassland words in their language.

    Back to the square one.

    1. I am surprised with low response, almost ignorance, on assertions that Hinduism is a fantasy, Rig Veda was edited and the non-existence of castes before English. Maybe because it is coming from one (English educated) Indian scholar? I was expecting to see the reaction of the BP_Brown_Pundit_Man who, as a semi-official watchdog, should give a seal of approval for non-erroneous theories. Instead, he/she may want to tell us if the caste (like) system existed among the grassland (steppe, Scythian, alien) guys. After that we may try to draw some further conclusions.

  10. where there is one defined scripture, a priesthood etc. Hinduism wasn’t defined that way so perhaps

    this seems wrong. brahmins are obviously priests. and buddhists and jains both have religious officials. as for scripture, hindus had the vedas.

    i think ‘western’ probably more accurately describes an exclusive communal identity defined by confessional belief.

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