The Question the Thread Threw Up
Yesterday I asked whether Modi made India great again. The thread beneath it, the liveliest we have had in a while since the discussion on Gender, promptly asked a harder question: is Modi good for the Muslims? It is a fair question and it deserves to be held properly, so let me put two commitments on the table before anything else. Every minority and every people has its rights. And hatred is to be avoided at any cost. Nothing below moves either commitment an inch.
With that said, there is a question beneath the question, and it is the one this post is about. Is a self-confident Hindu a bad thing? Because that, stripped of the slogans, is what this era is actually contesting: whether the majority population of India, indigenous to the land, which did not opt for Partition, and which wrote its minorities in as full citizens, may consolidate its dharma, its mythos, its ideology into a confident and unified global identity.
Britain swears in her seventh prime minister of the decade today; India, one tenure deep since 2014, argues instead about what its majority is allowed to become. I know which argument I would rather be having.
Who Appropriated Whom
“Indians have been appropriating/adopting foreign culture for at least the past 4,000 years.” Q
Adopting, certainly. But appropriating runs the arrow backwards. Did India appropriate the zero (inventor: Brahmagupta), or give it like it did the “Arabic” numerals? Nalanda drew students from across Asia for centuries; Buddhism, born on Indian soil, remade China, Korea, Japan, Tibet, and Southeast Asia. One of China’s four great classical novels is Journey to the West, and the west in question is India. Columbus was hunting a route to India when he blundered into the Americas.
For most of recorded history the Indian subcontinent sat at the hub of the trade routes east and west and served as the reservoir the world drew on for the knowledge of the spirit. A civilisation that exports its mathematics, its religions, and its universities is not an appropriator. It is a source. Of course a civilisation can be both source and sponge; every great one is.
The question is the direction of the net flow. And it held its identity through a millennium in which political power over much of the subcontinent lay with Abrahamic conquerors, Muslim, then Christian, which is not a small thing to have done.
Foreign Conquest
None of this requires denying what that millennium gave. The Taj could only have been raised here. Biryani, Urdu, the ghazal, perhaps the English language itself as India wields it: the syncreticism real and it is glorious. But gifts do not retroactively turn a conquest into an invitation.
The indigenous development of Indian identity was interrupted; Iran suffered the same interruption and has never stopped arguing with herself. To say so is not hatred. It is history, read dispassionately.
And a people retains the right to resume its interrupted development where it chooses, peacefully, and within the constitution it wrote for itself (by a representative of its most subaltern classes). That last clause is not ornamental. It is the whole difference between confidence and revenge.
The Nehruvian Contract
Consider Nehru’s wager. Had he promised a Hindu republic in 1947, India’s minorities would very likely have embarked on Pakistan-style constructs of their own, and the subcontinent would have fractured further.
A counterfactual, yes, but not a reckless one: Partition itself demonstrates the mechanism. He promised the opposite, and for 67 years, until the election of Modi, India kept the contract.
Here is the part that many refuse to see: it keeps the contract still. India remains constitutionally equal and constitutionally secular, and it houses the largest minority population on earth as full citizens: voting, building, arguing, thriving unevenly the way everyone in India thrives unevenly.
There are hard questions, Kashmir first among them, and honesty requires reading the Pakistan-administered side alongside the Indian ones.
The thread yesterday traded cases and counter-datasets, Dadri against declining riot statistics, and that argument should continue in daylight; it is exactly the conversation this blog exists to host. But a majority growing confident within a constitution is not a majority tearing one up.
The Lover’s Quarrel
Calvin’s objections, that Aadhaar and UPI have Congress-era parentage, that the contractor class takes its cut of the highway boom, that personal incorruptibility has not percolated downstream, made the essay he criticised better, and we commended on them in the thread: facts that skewer our contentions are music to our eyes.
The outsider’s reading, teaches nothing. It reads every Indian advance as failure. Meanwhile the country simply gets on with it: a cricketing superpower, dominant in the game’s economy and increasingly ambitious beyond it, richer and more confident and more herself than at any point in our lifetimes. Inshallah, the next decade will be better still.
Inextricable Indianization
Dharma permits enormous accommodations of identity; that is its genius. Ghalib could only have emerged in an Indian context. So could the Taj. The Middle East has harees; the subcontinent turned it into haleem, and no one who has eaten both knows which is taster. There is pilaf across the Islamic world; there is biryani here. There is a magic to this land that masala-fies and beautifies whatever arrives, and perhaps that is the definition of India: inextricable Indianization.
It began at the very first encounter, Iranian-plateau farmers meeting the indigenous hunter-gatherers of the subcontinent, joined by the Munda arrivals from the east and later the Steppe pastoralists with their Sanskrit, streams braided into a composite that has held from the Indus cities to this morning’s repeat sambar with filter coffee. A civilisation that has digested everything from the Yamnaya to the Mughals to the East India Company is not endangered by its own self-confidence.
On the contrary. An anxious majority is a danger to its minorities; a self-confident majority, held to its contract, is their best guarantee.
Confidence within the constitution, never in place of it. So, is Modi good for the Muslims? Let’s continue auditing that question however the self-confident Hindu is not a problem to be managed. She is, if the contract holds, the precondition of everyone else’s ease.

There is nothing wrong with the “Self-confident Hindu”. That’s not my contention.
But this “self-confidence” shouldn’t come at the expense of minorities.
Conversely, there is always lots of angst about Pakistan on this forum. Why is the “self-confident Muslim” anathema to people here?
It shouldn’t be ..
When the first step of making an Islamic country is identifying the minorities and then declaring them non-muslim to make sure that can’t get into any govt position and are actively discriminated against. You can understand why most outsiders to Islam are wary of it. We can see this happening live in Syria where the Druze and the Christians are slowly being driven out.
This is tinged Islamophobic comment tbh.
It has no nuance or texture ..
We may write on this but not today..
Imo it is fair to say that our lived experiences and recent history shape the way we see situations, and that’s where I think OM-3 is coming from.
The word Islamophobia has unfortunately been used to decisively shut out any criticism of how political Islam is weaponized against non-believers more so when they happen to be in a minority.
Yes but we think it’s a lot deeper.
Islamism has been weaponised by Imperialistic powers to destabilise regions like the Middle East..
Druze should be cleansed with lot of nuance. Like Sindhis, Pundits and Yazidis. One must never miss the texture of the whole situtation.
Says the forum named brown pundits!
Are you for real? You are saying that committing Genocide is so integral to Islam that any mention of such genocides must be Islamophobic!
you are replying to yourself alas as we have removed Kabir’s last 10-20 comments and 0M’s last 5-10 comments.
people have to understand not to unnecessarily rile up the threads any longer.
Q has his views, which we disagree with, but very rarely is it emotionally tinged. we don’t care what the views are (as long as they are within the bounds of legality) but it has to be presented in a dispassionate way..
XTM I need you to understand that Kabir started the communal rhetoric at a link of an article. There was no inflammatory comment necessary for his communal tirades.
“He started it” is an excuse people use in kindergarten.
Grow up.
The ceasefires were working perfectly. That is the best way to keep people from “riling up the threads”.
If someone is going to be nasty towards me personally, it is unreasonable to expect me to take that lying down.
There was a comment like “guy who doesn’t understand democracy..”. Sir, I am an American national. I spent my entire life in the US. Don’t lecture me about democracy.
Don’t inflame and condescend to the Commentariat or your comments will be deleted en masse..
We are not liking the way everyone is ganging up on Calvin nor did we appreciate the term “feminazi” but even so everything seems very even keel until you push everyone’s buttons..
Q is even more extreme in his views than you but he rarely gets moderated since it’s presented in a fairly even manner. The tone matters
Again, you can delete whatever you want. That’s not existential for me.
I am noticing though that no one cares when my “buttons” are pushed. How many times have I had to complain about “kleptocracy”, “slavery of awaam” and other anti Pakistan Army comments?
I will not tolerate disrespect or condescension towards me. Whatever standards there are must be applied to everyone.
Let’s be honest Kabir…for you..things went downhill once XTM posted something positive about his experience in India. I am not sure why you cannot supplement/counter if you like, with something positive about Pakistan rather than litigate ever little tit-bit that is happening in India.
I do love India that is Bharat.
ok so their is bias :)…not sure why its a trigger for Kabir 🙂
Loving one country doesn’t preclude loving another fwiw.
I have no problem if “something positive” is posted about India. That particular essay read like cheerleading for the Modi regime. I stand by that opinion.
My comment was in the context of “pushing buttons”. Historically, on this blog, people–especially RNJ– use anti Pakistan Army phrases like “kleptocracy”, “slavery of awaam” etc. Such anti-Pakistan Army rhetoric pushes my “buttons” just as anti-Modi rhetoric pushes other people’s buttons.
Anti-Pakistan and Anti-Islamic rhetoric are my red lines as is any disrespect directed towards me personally.
This is exactly why the ceasefires were instituted.
Either no one’s comments should be deleted–unless they are objectively egregious– or everyone’s “buttons” should be respected.
Also, people don’t attack Q in the same personal manner that they attack me–for whatever reason.
I don’t understand these comment deletions or snowflakes on this blogs who can’t take a bit of criticism of their beliefs. This is nothing but STSJ on a smaller scale.
So what if I didn’t like Kabir’s or OM’s comments…Boohooo! I can counter it logically. But this is your forum and you best know how to run. I’m gonna get away from this circus.
I don’t want an overwrought blog..
I have never said that “committing genocide is integral to Islam”. I don’t know how you drew that conclusion.
Was the Holocaust perpetrated by Muslims? The Rwandan genocide? What is going on currently in Gaza?
But please continue to double down on your Islamophobia.
I have never defended the Pakistani parliament making Ahmedis non-Muslim.
My position is that whether someone is Muslim or not is between them and Allah. That said, the mainstream position in Islam is that Prophethood ended after the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Anyway, this happened in the 1970s. Pakistan become independent in 1947.
There is a lot of angst on BP about the very existence of Pakistan. Why should “self-confident” Muslims be expected to live under Hindu Raj? We had the absolute right to self-determination in the parts of the colony in which we formed the demographic majority.
The real problem people on BP have is that Pakistan is the world’s only Muslim-majority nuclear power. We don’t live in fear of India.
isn’t most of the angst post-2014 due to the loss of the muslim veto?
tbh there hasn’t been any significant commentary or angst regarding anything remotely Pakistani for several days now..also I agree that this self confidence should not come at the expense of the minorities…but you cannot make such an assertion without honestly debating whether this is indeed the case…
BP renews itself constantly ..
Riots where muslim mobs torture, murder and dump a Hindu cop’s body in the drain are called “pogroms” against muslims. I will register objection to such mischaracterization.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-delhi-police-proved-case-against-ex-aap-leader-tahir-hussain-in-2020-delhi-riots-11775002
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/pakistan-politician-reminds-islamabad-how-its-army-refused-dead-bodies-of-soldiers-in-kargil-101784559736498-amp.html
Pakistani right-wingers would rather be willing slaves of such an army, even happily defend the cultural genocide of fellow muslim Uighurs by the CCP, as long as the chooran of hate India hate Hindus is injected into their veins.
There were cases of Pakistani truck drivers whose Uighur wives and children were sent away to CCP ‘re-education camps’ for the crime of having a picture of Mecca in their homes. But its India’s secularism that the likes of Kabir choose to fixate on.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/india-operation-sindoor-big-success-pakistan-army-tried-to-hide-failure-says-imran-khan-sister-noreen-niazi-11796575?pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll
Just like Kargil, and 1971, the facts of Op Sindoor will eventually trickle out in Pakistan. And the media shills who are happily taking ISI retainers to spout BS will eventually spill the beans in “Sethi se Sawwaal” and such shows claiming they knew it all along but couldn’t say it publicly.
There’s at least 50 people shot in PoJK and all you can think about is a lathi charge.
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/indus-treaty-can-no-longer-function-in-its-current-form-says-india-plans-5-500-mw-of-new-j-k-hydro-projects-1784564600618
Pakistani leadership is content to let the status quo steadily erode Pakistan’s future interests – They are happy to keep blaming India for their own incompetence and failures. IWT suspension ironically makes this grift easier for them.
now do Imran Khan. Wangchuk was taken to hospital to address his failing health and to prevent unrest will lead to rating agencies degrading India in their democracy indices. But Imran Khan’s muffled voice will not reach rating agencies and hence we should not be surprised at increase in PK’s democracy rating.
Sonam Wangchuk did similar things in Ladakh back in Sept 2025 where his fast/protests resulted in violent mobs ransacking Leh Hill Council (gov) and ruling party offices and finally resulted in 4 deaths. You have your holy cows (military), we have more of those. Still Wangchuk is being treated fairly compared to how PK or even the west deals with outside sponsored provocateurs.
“All the CJP is asking for is the resignation of the education minister.”
As the protesters themselves acknowledged last few days, first is education minister and the Modi Sarkar.
The protest had long transformed from the initial grouse of NEET exam leak to a regime change effort and had been hijacked by other green + red cabal causes.
Coming to the original NEET exam leak, go through this Hindustan times report https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/3-teachers-behind-leaking-neet-questions-to-be-named-in-cbi-chargesheet-101779761030963.html which shows that teachers contracted to frame the questions were behind the leak. The whole question setting and exam conducting exercise needs to be reviewed and SC is actively monitoring that exercise. I can’t remember the CJP protesters making any suggestions around how to improve the process/system.
I’m gonna drop a hot take and say I’m not sure the ‘Self-Confident Hindu’ exists. The ones in India seem too preoccupied with passing a uniform civil code and those of us in the West seem to be dissolving in real time. The former seem to have no imagination to create something better for themselves instead of bringing others down (maybe the only time I’ll ever use such ‘woke’ language lol) while the latter are stuck as an infinitesimal minority between both traditional western ethnicities and new immigrants, and too invested in the rat race of modernity. Our families did not understand the places they were coming to, frankly, and many of them, I think, could not have prepared us for this new world.
Is anyone ‘prepared’ for the new world until after the fact though? Best laid plans almost always turn out to be either inadequate or wrong-headed. In hindsight of course.
At the end of the day, all you can do is stick to basic foundational ‘lessons’ that you can throw at your kids and families, and hope that something sticks, while the rest gets figured out as they go along.
That’s true to a certain extent but the Indians abroad were caught in a double bind because neither was their lived experience and knowledge of the old world the same as that of those whose families have lived here for generations, nor did their experience of modernity proceed at the same pace or to the same extent as ours have, having lived here in this increasingly accelerating feedback loop. India is only just beginning to make exponential strides whereas it was only arithmetically developing prior to this which means that had they stayed in India, their experience might have been more immediately useful to both us and them, instead of having to spend a great deal of resources on navigating an entirely new context for the very first time.
This expenditure of energy also made it all but necessary that certain tradeoffs would have to be made. Indians in the US at least (which is what I know about) have assimilated at such a pace that would have been unthinkable for Germans, Poles, and Italians just a century ago. Of course, part of that is due to new developments in technology, ideology, and political theory, but it is still quite the difference.
“Adopting, certainly. But appropriating runs the arrow backwards.”
While there is nothing wrong with adopting (all cultures adopt), appropriating is basically claiming something foreign without at least giving credit to it, and Indians love appropriating (not adopting).
Indians want to act insular, and believe that every part of their culture is ”indigenous”. 100 years down the line, Indians may even claim that democracy was actually invented and spread by Indians, and that human rights, feminist ideals, and communism/capitalism/socialism all were invented by Indians thousands of years ago. Inventing new facts to support their claims and denying everything that has actual evidence.
To be honest, when you are so invested as a people into emphazing indigenous origins, it often indicative of the opposite – that you know that most of these things are foreign and you are compensating by doubling down on the denial.
Ironic, considering that is what you’re justifying against Indian culture right now. In the real world, however, when once dominant societies whose cultures used to be a mark of prestige are no longer able to maintain their sovereignty, vultures and other types of scavengers come skulking around trying to pick the choicest pieces of flesh off the dying old man to adorn themselves with.
This video by the ethnomusicologist Farya Faraji points out precisely how this was done by the British to the Greeks (and continues to this day with Christopher Nolan’s “Odyssey”): https://youtu.be/yFn1JfOd3b0?si=7nQysaZj3MY-bUiC
Correct, but I have nothing against adoption. British and French kanged on the Greco Roman civilizations, but they don’t try to pass it off as their own. (there are some neo-pagans who do this but they are cringe). It’s completely fine to be an admirer of a foreign civilization.
Nationalist Indians on the other hand do love to claim things that have nothing to do with them – as their own achievement. The unique Indian caste system, it’s strict endogamy over 2000 years, it’s hierarchical nature, and its direct correlation to Aryan Invasions/Migrations make it even more weird. Just yesterday I was conversing with an Indian online who claimed Sansrkit was ‘his’ language, who was most likely a shuddar, and whose ancestors were banned from speaking or learning Sanskrit. Just weird. Perhaps this is the piece of flesh being ripped off the dying old culture.
India is a continent masquerading as a nation state, it’s illogical to claim everything even within India. One Indian’s god maybe another Indian’s devil.
The……combination of ignorance, ‘half-knowledge’ and arrogant
wish-casting in this comment is ….impressively funny. 🙂
Q’s a good stand up comic 🙂
most subalterns claim the high culture.
the English and the French don’t descend from Royalty but peasantry?
“but they don’t try to pass it off as their own”
Did you even watch the video? They’ve literally been trying to do this for 200 years. It’s the same thing they tried in India.
“there are some neo-pagans who do this but they are cringe”
These people are christians and atheists. The pagans are more justified in this, especially if they are theologically platonist.
The rest of this comment isn’t worth engaging with. If you’re going to lie and slander Hindus, we have nothing to talk about. Take your atrocity slopaganda somewhere else.
Indians aren’t ‘insular’ – In fact quite the opposite. “Indian” or “Hindooo” culture is among the rare ones that is capable of embracing modernity and external influences while managing to retain its heritage and essence. Unlike some other ideologies that start measuring beard lengths, pant lengths and so on in a quest for some regressive insular ideal dating back to a pre-literacy era.
Here are the steps:
1) Conquerors conquer India, imposing their will and culture on the native population
2) Native population adopts conqueror’s culture, adds own flavor to it.
3) Decades pass and now the native population starts to think it’s their own culture.
4) Centuries pass and native population acts as if they are the originators of it, inventing mythology around it and deintegrating the source where they got it from.
This is cultural appropriation in four short steps. The first three steps are natural.
The last one is an offence.
Indian cultural trajectory is pretty clear right now. They follow western system of governance (political and legal code), they adopted western ideologies (feminism, communism, wokeism etc), they mostly now wear western clothes, and speak bad English (or creole English) as their dominant language.
This is what the elite followed 30 years ago, middle classes are doing now, and the poorer classes will be doing 30 years from now.
And no, this is not ’embracing’ modernity, you were made to embrace it by the Brits and Americans by their trained Brown Sahibs.
LMAO, you are describing Pakistani identify fabrication but just projecting it on to Indians.
These arguments have always been rather woo woo and illogical. For most of recent history Italy and Germany have been just as divided as India as been. Italy has culturally appropriated Greek, Christian, and Western cultural ideas many of which were not created there and the same goes for Germany. The difference between Indians and Pakistani is that the Pakistanis can’t even correctly follow American and British instructions.
1-3 applies to Pakistanis, and many other countries.
# 4 applies exclusively to India.
Ok Mr “Qureishi”. 😀
“Indian cultural trajectory is pretty clear right now. They follow western system of governance (political and legal code), they adopted western ideologies (feminism, communism, wokeism etc), they mostly now wear western clothes, and speak bad English (or creole English) as their dominant language.”
This was probably the only thing of worth you’ve said in this whole thread.