A precedent post on who is the successor state of the Mughal Empire (as specified by X.T.M in a comment)
There has been a lot of back-and-forth in the comments section about who gets to “claim” the Mughals.
The Republic of India is the successor state of the Mughal Empire as I explain below.
Note: When I use India below I mean the current day Republic of India, not the region of “India” which also encompasses some territories of the modern day states of Bangladesh and Pakistan
The Land
The Republic of India encompasses around 70 percent of the Mughal Empire at its greatest extent.
Again, possession of majority of the land is not a necessary condition. The UK is the successor state of the British Empire, Turkey is the successor state of the Ottoman Empire and so on. But having possession of the majority of the land makes the case stronger.
The reason that the UK, Turkey, France etc are the successor states of various empires is because they house the “core” – the capital, the ruling elite, the major monuments etc.
The Capital
The Mughal Empire lasted for around 300 odd years.
It’s capitals were:
Agra for 61 years
Delhi for 228 years
Fatehpur Sikri for 14 years
Lahore for 12 years
The first and last capitals were in India and for 96% of the existence of the empire, the capital was in India.
These capitals still exist in India and are UNESCO World Heritage Sites as well as Monument of National Importance by the Archaeological Survey of India.
The last capital is still used by India in official functions but more on that below.
Agra Fort, Agra
Purana Qila, Delhi
Buland Darwaza, Fatehpur Sikri
Red Fort, Delhi
The Tombs of the Emperors
Four of the six great Mughals have their tombs in India.
Thirteen of the other fourteen.
Humayun’s Tomb, Delhi
Akbar’s Tomb, Sikandra
Taj Mahal, Agra
Aurangzeb’s Tomb, Khuldabad
The Monuments
The crowning glory of the Mughal Empire, its most famous monument The Taj Mahal is in India (pictured above).
Similarly, the vast majority of Mughal monuments including tombs of ministers, wives, poets as well as gardens and masjids are located in India.
Shalimar Bagh, Srinagar
Ghalib’s Tomb, Delhi
The People
The Mughal Empire and its ruling class was a mix of Hindus and Muslims. In the declining days of the Mughal Empire, many of these elites broke off to form their own kingdoms. The descendants of these elites stayed behind and are Indian citizens.
It is difficult to trace the lineage of the Mughals post 1857 although some of the descendants do live in poverty across India.
Sultana Begum is one.
The fate of the descendants of the breakaway states fared better.
The three biggest Muslim breakway groups were Awadh, Bengal and Hyderabad.
Kingdom of Awadh
The descendants of Wajid Ali Shah are spread across Kolkata, where he was exiled. Some work in government, lots are teachers (including in Aligarh), one runs a Mughlai restaurant.
Manzilat Fatima is the fourth generation descendant of Wajid Ali Shah and runs Manzilat’s , a Mughlai restaurant in Kolkata
Bengal Subah
The descendants of Mir Jafar are scattered around Murshidabad. Few of them have been affected by the SIR in Bengal , a recent topic of discussion.
Nizamate of Hyderabad
Unlike Bengal and Awadh, Hyderabad never came under British rule completely and remained a Princely state. Upon accession to India, the last nizam Asif Jah VII stayed back in India and died in India. He also helped fund India’s war effort in 1965 vs Pakistan.
The later nizams don’t live in India but they do keep visiting to maintain their properties and are buried in India.
The Rest
There were various smaller Muslim kingdoms within India whose descendants live in India in varying degrees of prominence.
One of the captains of the Indian cricket team was the titular nawab of Bhopal and Pataudi. His children are Bollywood actors.
The present Raja of Mahmudabad (whose grandfather funded the creation of Pakistan) is a professor at Ashoka university. He was in the news during Operation Sindoor.
Currently runs Awadhi cuisine pop ups in his palace as well. If I ever am in Lucknow during one of them, will check it out.
Modern Legitimacy
The Red Fort was the “last” palace/capital of the Mughals and the one that was the palace/capital for the longest.
It is still used by the Indian Government, especially on Independence Day when the Prime Minister unfurls the flag.
Similarly, Jama Masjid was the imperial mosque of the Mughals and is still an active mosque.
Apart from these continuations, the thing is apart from India no one else really even “claims” the Mughals officially, despite internet fights.
Here is Manmohan Singh at Babur’s tomb (which was visited by Nehru, Indira as well).
And again here at Bahadur Shah Zafar’s tomb in Yangon.
And *gasp* Hindu Hriday Samrat himself.
Has the head of government of any of the other claimants done a foreign visit where they paid “tribute”. It is a a very nominal thing but it is a thing nonetheless.
Rejection by “Hindu” India
X.T.M argues that India has “rejected” the Mughals and therefore cannot claim the culture.
I disagree. India has not “rejected” anything. “Some” Indians have.
As discussed above, the Mughal monuments are still celebrated and are monuments of national importance/UNESCO world heritage sites, the vast majority of Hindustani Muslims in the world are Indian citizens and did not migrate to Pakistan during partition including the very elite, Urdu is still very much an Indian language with the status of an official language where it is spoken (No point in imposing Urdu on non-speakers – doesn’t end up well like seen in 1971).
“Some” Indians don’t accept the Mughal culture. Which is fine, it is a democracy.
India is a civilization state encompassing a multitude of empires/kingdoms over many millennia. It is the “successor state” to all of them. Many of these polities were in opposition to each other so depending on which of these polities people identify with in the current day, they might not be particularly fond of some others.
And this is not even a Hindu-Muslim issue.
The battle of Bhima Koregaon is seen very differently by Mahars and Brahmins. Mahars do an annual pilgrimage honoring this battle which actually led to clashes in 2018 between Hindu right wing groups and Dalit groups.
Victory Pillar, Bhima Koregaon
Even outside India, this is common.
In the Southern United States, White and Black Southerners have different views on the Confederacy.
Whites celebrate the heroes and symbols of the Confederacy.
Southern rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd with the Confederate flag
Blacks don’t and are actively removing monuments (due to control of the heavily blue cities).
The Robert E. Lee monument in New Orleans being taken down
Very familiar, isn’t it?
X.T.M’s use of the Babri Masjid is a bad faith argument.
The Babri Masjid was not a particularly important mosque and its only purpose was a victory monument in one of the holiest sites of Hinduism.
It is not the “Notre Dame” of the Mughals. That would be the Jama Masjid, the Imperial Mosque of the Mughals which is still being used today (as shown above).
Its destruction was fitting (and I would say the same if ever someone demolishes the Jama Masjid and builds a temple over it. I would advocate for the “shifting” of the temple and re-building a new mosque).
I do not agree with the method of destruction nor the riots that followed but the building of the Ram Mandir was the right thing in the end.
Gyanvapi in Kashi is being “reclaimed” by more civil methods, as it should be.
Extending X.T.M’s logic – if Congress and BJP governments keep alternating power, does India get to claim Mughals during Congress rule and not BJP rule?
That is an absurd argument.
Domestic political fights do not override geography, history and demographics.
The religion/language/traditions of the Mughals are still alive in current day India.
It isn’t in Egypt, Scandinavia, Greece etc. But to say that the current day polities are not successor states of the older pre-Islamic/pre-Christian kingdoms would be foolish.
As long as India holds “the land” and “the people” as discussed above, it is the successor state of the Mughal Empire.
The pre and post Mughal Muslim states
Apart from the Mughals, there were various Muslim states in India both before and after.
The Sultanates and the Sur Empire
Using the same logic as discussed above, India is the successor state of various pre Mughal Muslim kingdoms.
Like the Mughals, the Delhi Sultanate and the Sur empire encompassed regions outside India but unlike the Mughals, the capital was always in India (Delhi/Sasaram) so an even stronger claim than over the Mughal empire.
The southern Bahmani Sultanate and it’s successor Deccan Sultanates are completely contained within India so there isn’t even an opposing claim here.
Qutub Minar, Delhi
Tomb of Sher Shah Suri, Sasaram
Gol Gumbaz, Bijapur
The post Mughal States
As discussed above, the three big post Mughal states of Hyderabad, Awadh and Bengal came to India with the descendants of the rulers still living here. Part of Bengal is with Bangladesh but the capital Murshidabad stayed in India. Awadh and Hyderabad are wholly in India.
Nizamat Imambara, Murshidabad – The largest Imambara in the world
Bara Imambara, Lucknow – The second largest Imambara in the world
Falaknuma Palace, Hyderabad
Other Claimants
There are current day polities which were once part of the Mughal Empire – Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh namely. A few of their people might claim the Mughals on the basis of this.
These places were always on the “fringes” of the Empire. The core of the Empire is firmly within India.
Arabia, Greece etc cannot claim the Ottoman Empire. Algeria, Vietnam etc cannot claim the French Empire.
Yes, you could point to the various monuments in these countries – Bagh-e-Babur in Afghanistan, Lahore Fort and Badshahi Mosque in Pakistan, Lalbagh Fort in Dhaka etc but “most” are in India including the important ones.
Similarly, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Myanmar have a Mughal emperor buried there but like noted above, the “vast” majority rest in India.
India was part of the British Empire but cannot claim the British Empire because it was based out of London. Similarly, parts of India were under the Portuguese Empire but India cannot claim the Portuguese Empire based out of Lisbon.
Side-note: Both the UK and Portugal have had Indian origin Prime Ministers and quite recently too
And even India has “monuments” stemming from those empires which are UNESCO World Heritage sites.
Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, Mumbai
Basilica of Bom Jesus, Goa
Hypothetical Analogues
There have been many incorrect analogies made regarding India so I would like to create some hypothetical scenarios where those analogies would actually fit.
Byzantia
People were comparing Jinnah with Ataturk so I thought a more objective look was required.
Imagine if there was a country called Byzantia which included the Christian territories of the Ottoman Empire (Greece, Bulgaria, Balkan countries) etc as well as Western Turkey with the capital at Istanbul.
Assume the Arabs broke off earlier (a la the Afghans) and Byzantia had some areas which were never under the Ottomans (a la the Northeast and the extreme south of India).
Imagine there was another country with two wings on the opposite ends of Byzantia corresponding to present day Kurdistan and Albania/Bosnia. Some Turks moved to Kurdistan but most stayed back (can have moved to the western wing as well but either will work for this thought experiment).
Let’s call this Kabistan (K for Kurdistan, A for Albania, B for Bosnia). Kabistan’s official language is Turkish imposed by the migrant Turkish ruling class.
At some point, Albania/Bosnia don’t like this imposition and secede (with a little help from Byzantia). They form a new country called Albania.
This is the correct analogue.
Englandia
There was even an attempted retort that someday India might even claim “British” high culture.
Well, the circumstances are completely different and like the Ataturk example, a wrong analogue. Let me give the correct analogy.
Let us consider an alternate history – Imagine that after the Second World War all the other British colonies became independent including Pakistan. But India and Britain decided to merge into one polity where India was no longer a colony but on “par” with Britain. The Welsh and the Scots opt out and form their own country. Let’s call it Welscotland, in keeping with tradition regarding abbreviations. Assume the Northern Irish have left and merged with Ireland.
Welscotland gets an influx of Englishmen who make English the official language. India and England form a polity called Englandia with the capital at London.
Wales breaks off due to English imposition and forms Wales, with a bit of help from Englandia.
In this scenario, British high culture is indeed Englandian as is King Arthur, Queen Elizabeth I, Shakespeare as well as Gandhi, Nehru, Chandragupta Maurya, Shivaji, Ashoka, Akbar, Mirza Ghalib etc etc.
Conclusion
Now that we have established that India is the successor state of the Mughal Empire, it stands that the current day rulers of India are in a way continuation of their Mughal counterparts.
May I present Shahenshah Narendra Damodardas Modi and some of his navratna – Raja Jaishankar and Raja Rajnath Singh.
Bravo! Enjoyed the maps and other visuals.
Thanks. Will do some more later.
Lovely post – this is a Precedent post.
Will add that in the post.
Good job, BB! I see it has triggered the usual suspect in to a reflexive reaction without any substance almost immediately! 🙂
More in the pipeline.
Itna bam maarenge ki pura dhua dhua ho jayega
He just posts rubbish to push “Anti-Pakistan” stuff down although this post isn’t even against Pakistan and refers to Pakistan in the same breath as Bangladesh and Afghanistan. But then that might be considered “Anti-Pakistan” to Pakistanis.
who are you guys trying to shadow-Tweet; Kabir or Q.
to be honest it’s not really a good idea to be ungracious, we are trying to get Kabir to actually bring back BB & RNJ.
BB was wrong and said very terrible things to Kabir; we do note no one on the Saffroniate bench actually reprimanded BB..
it’s interesting how a troll on one side is a friend for the other.
this isn’t constructive engagement..
BB’s posts are essentially boiling down to how terrible and unimportant Pakistan is; the problem with that thesis is when reality contradicts (as it has), the terribly unimportant Pakistan is suturing a global wound then it becomes a data point to subvert.
We are our Narratives after all; BP relies on the fact that We stay above the fray and we encourage others to do the same by posting original work rather than just fodder in the comments (which admittedly are very stimulating, for instance relitigating Babri from a different angle).
if y’all want to have outstanding discussions, civility can go a very long way. for instance a new commentator did disagree with Kabir and Kabir is engaging with him. so there is something about fundamental respect.
also respect to Kabir; he stood his ground even against us and we relented, by allowing him exceptional carve-outs, which now the entire Authorial class benefit from. the right to delete the comments of the Editors.
that’s a very significant victory as we discussed in our Precedent Post:
https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/04/25/passive-aggression-is-bullying/
https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/04/23/kabir-the-anchor-of-the-crescent/
Kabir.
I have noticed whenever there is some “Anti-Pakistan” post, he quickly does a repost of an existing article – a book review or an article on Hindustani classical music to push the original post “down”.
if you are worried about that; do not worry we can change the time of publication or make your post sticky.. we must all play by the rules
Make it sticky please.
It would not be fair to overwrite Kabir’s novel posts.
If you are talking the reposts then Novel Posts outrank Repost.
We will do that now.
Sure thing. Don’t mind that.
The pattern is very obvious.
Yup.
Fwiw, based on my interactions with Kabir, on his topics of interest he writes well and we can have a very nice conversation on it. In fact I’m inclined to think that he’s too Indianized / westernized for the Pakistanis but too Pakistani for the Indians based on the positions he espouses on various topics.
He kind of gets derailed when it comes to some of his bugbears on Pakistan(is). The funny thing is I realized he used a similar tone and argument when SQ seemingly downplayed the Punjabi nature of Pakistan.
Yes Kabir is a multiplicity like all of us. We show different sides to the “Other.”
Kabir doesn’t usually react to our criticisms of Pakistan because it comes from a place of
Love (most of the time)..
But we want to see Pakistan triumph. We assume it will triumph through Dharma but we could be wrong.
The only alternative to Dharma is Persian Fire; it’s quite assuming as we seem to be more of an Aryanist than Abrahamic though of course Faith is uber-Abrahamic.
Like we said; we are all multiplicities.
>The only alternative to Dharma is Persian Fire
Is there going to be a post on this at some point, I look forward to that.
And a question for Kabir (I’m unable to make comments in one of his posts), have you ever written on your lived experience as a Shi’ite in Pakistan? I was in fact never aware that you’re a Shi’ite, despite having read your posts/comments on BP and your blog since almost a decade, albeit sporadically.
Kabir is from the highest strata of Pakistani society; sectarian divisions there do not matter.
neither do religious distinctions. for instance if people have a “Muslimish name”, it’s pretty smooth sailing (a lot of the Christians have Muslim names).
it’s a little bit still oppressive in the sense, there is no “public space” in Pakistan as there is one in the West..
Great read and graphics!
Pakistan and Pakistanis as a consequence have fallen between two stools. Neither here nor there. That self-loathing manifests as Dharmaphobia and is peculiar to them alone. Unfortunately, this results in their inability to move forward despite having got what they wanted at Partition.
@Kabir in his post has said that Pakistan must be allowed to assert the same claim as being a “successor state” due to having Mughal “heritage”.
I disagree.
As described in the Other Claimants part of this post – Pakistan alongside Bangladesh and Afghanistan were always the fringes of the empire and never the core.
They can celebrate the “heritage” and the culture, sure. They have all rights to it – but they are not the “successor state”.
In a way Pakistan’s relation to the Mughal Empire is similar to India’s with the British Empire –
• Was a part of the empire for many years
• Monuments/sites strewn across the country some of which are UNESCO World Heritage Sites
• Adopted the language of the empire as an official language despite majority of the population not speaking it
• Adopted cultural norms/cuisine – Urdu ghazals, nihari etc in Pakistan, Parliamentary democracy, tea/biscuits etc in India (India’s famous chai culture was introduced by the British)
But it would be a stretch to say that Shakespeare, Austen etc are “Indian”.
you are turning Pakistanis into Palestinians mon ami.
Palestinian Nationalism is famously the most famous Arab nationalism; it is the strongest. It is directly fed by Zionism and the consequent oppression.
The incessant need to destroy Pakistan and wish Pakistan ill; has turned the entire country into a VERY nationalistic entity. Just as the Ummah stood by Iran, with the exception of the UAE.
It is interesting the only real Epstein link in the ME was in the UAE.
Ummah stood by Iran? Not sure what the Saudis, Bahrainis and Kuwaitis feel about that.
they didn’t attack, did they?
no one has attacked Iran apart from US & Israel
US bases are located where again?
yes and we suspect there will now be a massive recalibration.
one must remember the Persian Gulf statelets (which are the last Absolute Monarchies on the Planet) are designed for a particular reason.
This Greater Bahrain Region (the Southside of the Persian Gulf) is essentially the inverse of the North Side. Both are heavily Shi’ite Persianised Arabian populations.
It is just that the Bedouin family dynasties were allowed to maintain their fiefdoms.
In some ways Pakistan does represent a balm for the Muslim world as it is explicitly Ummah-focussed. But one would do an error in reading the past for the future.
This was not Iran being attacked by everyone of her neighbours; one cannot overstate just how popular Pakistan’s diplomacy has been domestically.
Doesn’t Bahrain use Pakistani soldiers to keep the majority Shia population in line?
Jamadar of the Ummah..
SaaS – Security as a Service
droll
I suspect you are over estimating both, the strength of the Ummah and Pakistan’s diplomacy. All these states have their own vested interests vis-a-vis Iran and Pakistan in addition to the regional dynamics.
perhaps – we are speaking rhetorically
but the precedent has been Muslims as a chaotic disunited bunch; it might be changing..
Bahrainis are Shia majoirty dude, they love Iran.
Kuwaitis, Qataris & Saudis are being cautious. They obviously don’t like Iran because they are being attacked by Iran. But they also don’t want to fight Iran because that will be like taking the side of Israel in a war against a Muslim country. This is a poisoned chalice.
UAE is the only odd duck out, and even here there is a growing rift between Dubai/Sharjah and AbuDhabi.
MBZ is in trouble, whether he knows it or not is another question.
Not at all. Israel does not recognize Pakistan and is actively building settlements.
India and Pakistan recognize each other’s borders.
And again I am just making an argument with my points, just like Pakistanis are free to make their own argument (which then I am free to respond to and so on).
if u detest a side you will accordingly see it with mud-tinted glasses.
thus ur arguments win on the technical side (the letter) but not necessarily pass the sniff test (the spirit of the law)..
Everyone’s got their biases. It’s human nature.
do we?
Yes.
🙂
Kabir made a comment, which offended us greatly but we will reproduce it.
Indians love ghazals but can’t pronounce it.
It is interesting, when the letter z has been banished, how does one expect to be the Heir.
It is also an interesting meditation, who is the Heir to the Family; the Blood Heir (Pakistan) or the Current Owner of the Family Seat (India).
That is how we would define it. the Karachiite Muhajir, the Bloodstock of the Old Muslim ways, infused their life spirit into a Nation. Pakistan’s High Culture entirely stems from that (probably till the 80’s-90’s Pakistan’s entire culture was recognised ONLY to be that, regionalism only really became acceptable in this millennia in what is now West Pakistan)..
Again the same mistake – “Most” Indians can’t pronounce it because most Indians are not even Urdu speakers (or for that matter Hindi speakers).
Urdu speaking Muslims in India are “also” Indian.
There are way more Urdu speaking Muslims in Lucknow, Hyderabad, Delhi plus all across the Ganges plains than in Karachi/Pakistani Hyderabad.
And an interesting thought experiment.
Urban richer populations have lower TFR. Rural populations have higher.
As urban families have less children, rural people migrate to the city and make up the numbers.
So Lahore is augmented by the Punjabi countryside, Peshawar by the Pashtun countryside, Lucknow by the Hindustani countryside and so on.
Mohajirs in Karachi don’t have that luxury as they left their hinterland back in India.
So Karachi will become a Sindhi/Pathan city at some point.
That is how Mumbai became more Marathi and Hyderabad more Telugu.
Even in cricket, you hardly see much Mohajirs anymore in the Pakistan cricket team. There are probably more Hindustani Muslims in the Indian cricket team.
you misassume the nature of Elites, which is not demographics. Who lives in Clifton and Defence.
Even elites ultimately decline on a long enough timeline with the propping up of new elites.
Parsis in Bombay still occupy elite circles but their influence is nowhere near what it was. Similarly Deccani Muslims in Hyderabad.
Doesn’t speak the language but claims ‘it’s our langauge’ to those who can actually speak it.
lol
Not really.
India has more Urdu as a first language speakers than Pakistan. Hindustani Muslims outnumber Mohajirs by large numbers.
“Most Indians” do not have Urdu as a first language just like “most Pakistanis”.
It’s just that Indians are proud of their language and won’t accept erasure of their language unlike most Pakistanis who would abandon their centuries old tongues of Punjabi/Sindhi etc to speak in some alien tongue and cosplay as someone else.
You talk a lot about “resisting” and maintaining local traditions while Pakistan itself is the opposite of that.
Credit to the Bangladeshis, they did not take this lying down.
the whole Hindi, Hindu, Hindutva movement?
Hindi as part of Hindutva is niche. People outside Hindi belt speak their own language including the two current centers of the movement – Gujarat and Maharashtra
Bombay Badshah: Editing out this comment because it used crude language and made fun of mispronunciations which is a dog whistle as discussed on BP.
The basic gist of the comment was a retort on how Indians change their claims every day – Mughal, British, Maratha, Rajput etc.
This is a reply to the common statement by Indians on how Pakistanis change their “fathers” every day –
Monday: Arabs
Tuesday: Persians
Wednesday: Turks
Thursday: Mughals
And so forth.
But again, the Pakistanis have made a mistake.
India is the “successor state” to all those polities – Mughal Empire, Rajputana, Maratha Empire, British India (not British Empire – that is for the UK) due to control of “the land” and “the people”.
Arabs, Persians, Turks, Mughals don’t fulfill the same criteria with Pakistan. Pakistan might have been part of their empires at some point but they were at the fringes and didn’t control the “core” land nor do they have the majority of the people, including the ruling elite. Their successor states are the modern nation states of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, India.
The correct Pakistani equivalent would be
Monday: IVC
Tuesday: Sikh Empire
Wednesday: Soomra Dynasty
Thursday: Langah Sultanate
Etc
Thing is some of them are non Muslim and the Muslim ones are smaller entities so that’s why Pakistan lay claim on the bigger foreign Muslim empires (Mughal, Ottoman, Safavid, Ummayad, Durrani).
This behaviour does explain a lot of Pakistan’s misadventures.
Pakistan in trying to claim the larger foreign empires (cue naming stuff after Ghazni, Ghori, Bin Qasim etc) has made itself bigger in its perception of itself than it actually is. Hence, they overreach a lot and then it blows up in their face.
We can currently see it in the delusions of being the “leader” of the Muslim world.
even though overreach has blown up in its face (1971) but Pakistan has rapidly adapted
Isn’t Sindoor a misadventure?
What has it achieved apart from twinning Pakistan and America with Israel-India as counterpoint?
Shifted the overton window more to the right?
That proxy attacks in Kashmir will be replied to by attacks on military targets including in “Pakistan proper”.
Post 1971, Pakistan never fought a direct war with India due to acknowledgement of the fact that it can’t take on a bigger foe but instead used proxies for plausible deniability (hence the clamor for “evidence”) as well as restricted most of its attacks to Kashmir (“disputed area” hence not India).
Sindoor showed that there is a method of direct engagement with Pakistani Armed Forces below the nuclear threshold.
From a religious and all weather ally angle, the US and Israel are magnitudes closer compared to US-Pakistan. The US is known for its treacherous ability to use and discard inconvenient allies. Israel is so far the exception that proves the rule.
Pakistan has adapted well to assessing when the US needs it to extract maximum benefit from this very transactional relationship.
There are no permanent friends or foes, only interests are permanent. Something India has finally learnt, a bit late but still, better late than never.
US has a huge Jewish elite. AIPAC is big.
Haha indeed. Including the Rothschild by marriage; socialist Amartya Sen 😁
Pakistan’s diplomatic resurgence chronologically co-relates to Op Sindoor, but causally connects more to Oct 7th and the US-Israel’s newfound utility for Pakistan vis-a-vis Iran.
I do not know why you keep ignoring this obvious detail.
but post Oct 7th US-India relations were strong.
Combination of both that and Sindoor.
Trump needed people for his Gaza plans (Peace Board etc).
He got the ceasefire for Munir during Sindoor.
In return, got Munir on board the Peace Board (not a particularly popular decision in Pakistan) and now also used as a “mediator” vis a vis Iran.
yes, thats the point – if anything Op Sindoor increased the leverage that Drumpf could exercise on Pak and Munir. Spinning that into some sort of a ‘victory’ is…..a propaganda exercise, one that takes….quite a bit of chutzpah and suspension of reality to accept face-value. Which is why I’m a bit puzzled as to why XTM continues to repeat this – maybe its a sop to …balance out things on BP. *shrug*
If XTM doesn’t do that, the entire Pakistani contingent will run away and without India-Pakistan fights, BP traffic is very low.
If there are no villains, who will the heroes fight. 😂
We don’t see it that way; we just see Pakistan strutting the global stage when a couple of years ago it was slinking away from it.
We aren’t reading so deeply into it but we have touched on it where the presumption is that Team RW (Bibi, Trump, Modi, Orban) are playing 5d chess.
Bombay Badshah: Removed due to use of aggressive language and falsehoods. The official Wikipedia article lists the result as a ceasefire. Claiming “victory” is a falsehood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_India%E2%80%93Pakistan_conflict
Lol, You are clearly capable of some analysis when you choose to. Can you point to specifics about how India was ‘defeated’?
Arguably Donald took notice because he saw a strongman who could be leveraged at his weakest and would jump at the chance to serve to push Drumpf’s agenda, no?
Bombay Badshah: Removed aggressive language against the author
Everyone else in the world from Libya to Qatar and from Russia to Poland also leveraging the same?
As I said, you guys can’t see it even if it stares you in the face.
All sides hide actual losses (even the US), but countries closely monitor these conflicts via their intelligence agencies (to study & learn about new capabilities, tactics, startegy etc and how it fared in live combat).
They know who won and who lost, they saw the capabilities, and it shows.
How in the world are these countries “leveraging” it?
Using your logic, countries across Southeast Asia like Vietnam and Indonesia are looking to get the Brahmos. Philippines already got them.
https://news.usni.org/2025/11/07/philippine-marine-corps-unveils-first-brahmos-anti-ship-missile-battery
Is that due to the performance in Sindoor? Did India “win” then?
Claiming “victory” when the length and breadth of Pakistan was bombed (and the reverse could not be done) is a choice.
Munir got Trump to save him and in return swore fealty.
Let it be, its harmless if some Pakistanis choose to swallow ISPR propaganda. Arguably beneficial even.
Bombay Badshah: Removed aggressive language
So? Brahmos performed well, and they are interested in that equipment.
But just war is not about one or two items performing well, it’s about strategy and objectives.
India failed to achieve any objectives, hitting no target of any strategic value, and causing no significant damage. Whereas Pakistan showed superior strategy, dominated in the air and achieved all war objectives that a nation defending can achieve. This is the reason why they are being welcomed everywhere, not just in the USA.
we don’t appreciate the last line; but yes we just don’t understand how Sindoor was good for India..
Pakistan was on its last legs. now it has full legitimisation and is very much in the game
India achieved all its objectives. It’s objectives were initially to attack Pakistani terror outlets on Pakistani soil and then expanded to military targets after Pakistan kept sending missiles (which kept getting intercepted). Pakistan’s entire philosophy of using proxies was to avoid direct military confrontation which ended with the strikes on the PAF bases.
On the 7th they targeted the terror hideouts and hit all of them. Pakistani media themselves carried news of the “significant” damage.
On the 10th they targeted PAF bases and hit all of them, taking out Pakistani personnel. This has been admitted by Pakistan themselves.
Now these are all “admitted” losses so who knows the true extent.
Pakistan failed to hit any targets on the 10th and was repelled by Indian air defense.
Pakistan had to go to Trump to get a “ceasefire”. Remember, on the 10th India was bombing Pakistani bases, not the reverse. Pakistan failed to hit anything. Satellite data and coverage by international media attests to that.
And Pakistan isn’t being welcomed “anywhere”. Trump uses them for stuff like Board of Peace and “mediation” while banning citizens from immigrating.
>India failed to achieve any objectives, hitting no target of any strategic value, and causing no significant damage
Its mystifying how you manage to conclude this. India’s initial objectives were to bomb LeT and JeM HQ in Muridke etc, along with designated terror sites strewn across PoK. All of which it bombed successfully. Albeit with a few machines lost.
Secondarily, Indian objectives were to defend and deter Pakistani retaliation – which Indian Air defence managed to achieve with minimal damages as 3rd party satellite imagery shows.
On top of this, to force the adversary to cease attempting further strikes, India managed to target and bomb multiple Pakistani bases with surgical precision. There is literally tons of satellite and Pakistani imagery to prove this.
From this how does a sane, educated person conclude the above, is…an exercise in self-delusion.
we will leave it to BB (as it is his thread) whether to moderate this insulting comment to India that is Bharat; though we don’t approve it.
but on a more serious note, India has a variegated and multi-faceted heritage so the fact that BB is laying claim to the Mughals is interesting.
though the question is this is a syncretised or subordinated heritage. Pakistan and India seek to deprecate the “Other” Inheritance
It’s only as insulting as Indian claims about Pakistanis changing fathers every now and then. I just refer to the mirror, perhaps they will understand now.
But Pakistanis do change their fathers to people who were not their fathers. Indians don’t. The claim their actual fathers.
There is no “mirror” here.
It would be a mirror if Indians claimed to be British, French, Portuguese etc.
“India has a variegated and multi-faceted heritage”
Oh I am fine with it, infact this is what I want for them – to claim their Mughal history because Mughals were native. Instead of millions of people throwing hissy fits over Aurangzeb 300 years after his death
I just saw a hilarious parallel about their claim that Pakistanis are ‘confused’ when they celebrate “invaders”
And this is also what we want from Pakistanis – to claim their own native history – both non Muslim (IVC, Sikh) and Muslim (Soomra, Langah) instead of trying to claim “sexier” foreign histories like Mughals, Safavids, Ottomans (cue Ertuğrul and “our” history) etc etc.
Just because your father isn’t particularly glamorous, doesn’t mean you abandon him and get a new father.
You can’t change biology just like you can’t change geography and history.
And Pakistanis do celebrate invaders though. Neither Bin Qasim nor Mahmud of Ghazni were born in Pakistan or died in Pakistan. They came, conquered, left.
SQ,
How many times has the statue of Sikh King Ranjitsingh been vandalized in Pakistan? Would that constitute a “hissy fit”?
I think the pushback of the pendulum against the mughals in general, and Aurangzeb in particular is more a result of Marxists propaganda allowed to dominate ‘official history’ than other factors. Something for you to consider.
You know I was correct which is why you changed my comment and wrote a 10 page essay within it to reply
It isn’t. You used dogwhistles which are not kosher on BP so I saw fit to edit it. No dogwhistles on my threads – whether pertaining to mispronunciations or fearmongering about “Central African boyfriends”.
I wrote a “10 page essay” to correct your mistake.
All of those “10 pages” are the truth.
The “fathers” Pakistanis claim are not their fathers. The “fathers” Indians claim are theirs.
Bombay Badshah: Removed due to use of sexualized “incel” language
presumably ur grandsons; Chads are for males?
You are the one who brought it up as a dogwhistle. There was no need to mention any race when you were making the point.
And what happens if your hypothetical daughter (or for that matter son considering you live in the west where homosexuality is permitted) gets “railed” by an African “chad”?
It’s their life. Let them enjoy.
Are you saying if your grandkids are half black, you will disown them?
Bombay Badshah: Removed due to whataboutery resulting in transphobia and support of restrictions on female sexual autonomy
We are not moderating but BB does have the right to call this in but it’s his judgment call.
It is also their thread so the Badshah may do as he likes.
Human beings have to understand we don’t own our children.
If you are not comfortable with the choices they make, you can disown them (post adulthood) but controlling them is illiberal.
If you truly wished to live such a life, you should have stayed back in Pakistan.
In a freer society, it is natural that people will not be repressed and express bodily autonomy.
Sir how many children do you have to make such statements?
Who told you I am a liberal or concerned about being illiberal?
You don’t need children to know what’s right or wrong?
How many do you have?
You seem to be very young. In your “Andrew Tate” phase so to speak, with the usage of words like “chad”, “railing” etc.
Its like the broke guy giving advice on how to get rich. You dont know what you are talking about because you dont have children. I have several children so its funny to hear advice about them from people with no children.
people can do whatever they like; eventually children grow up. BB seems chill and relaxed.
who cares who dates who and sleeps with who..
How many children do you have to make ridiculous statements like these?
BB this is a misuse of handle. you cannot replace what Qureshi wrote with your opinions just the violations.
Ok. How about I replace with violations and then put opinions in a reply, does that work?
yes that is absolutely fine..
as if on a que, this article appears in todays’s print.
https://theprint.in/opinion/hyderabad-heart/hyderabad-mughal-history/2917209/
Why Hyderabadis need a history lesson beyond the Mughal court
From the Bahmani to the Qutb Shahis, Hyderabad’s local identity is far more complex than the standard Mughal-centric narrative suggests.
The article argues history textbooks distort Mughal rule, overemphasizing their control while neglecting rich regional histories like Hyderabad’s. It highlights Hyderabad’s independent rise under the Qutb Shahis before Mughal destruction in 1687. The author advocates for prioritizing local narratives and a balanced view of Indian history.
this feels like Divide and Rule.. subdivide Islamicate identity into its constituent parts so that it can be digested
Naah. Mughals actually fought and defeated the Qutub Shahis to take over. Mughals had Rajput generals. Qutub Shahis were allied with the Marathas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Golconda
There was no “Islamicate identity” then as there isn’t now. The “ummah” has always fought amongst itself.
well, that’s how life is. it is said that tipu wanted to have marriage alliance with nizam of hyderbad so that the combined strength could resist the british. the nizam refused as apparently tipu was a ‘local’ and hence not of high birth.
it matters even today, if we see the muslim matrimonial sites !!!
The Nizams were smart and flipped flopped a lot.
Started out as governors under the Mughals, became independent once Mughal power weakened and fought with Marathas, allied with British against the Marathas, existed as a princely state till independence and even today own vast properties including palaces, some of which are five star hotels.
That’s more than 300 years.
The other Mughal governors fizzled out.
this article was written by yunus lasania ,a muslim
Googled this guy.
Observations here – https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/04/29/india-is-the-successor-state-of-the-mughal-empire/#comment-133641
Isn’t this just refuting the Hindustani narrative? Islamicate Deccan has its own glories
I mean Hyderabad wasn’t even in the Mughal Empire for very long. There’s like 30-40 years between the loss of the Golconda sultanate and the formation of the Nizamate.
I suspect that the minority within the minority voices is often given prominence by the majority.
Fair point, especially if the audience is global, but if it’s domestic consumption, then the deccan – hindustan split is real. I think it’s genuinely empowering for muslims to own their local histories, especially when non-muslims actively do so. For a karnataka muslim to own renaissance men like ibrahim adil shah ii or mahmud gawan or tipu or ferishta should be encouraged by us non-muslims in so far as they can lead to enriching the memory of the place we commonly belong to. A lot of Delhi based intellectuals are essentially propagating a narrative that reinforces the idea of political centralisation, of a sort that may have never existed. Which is why this conversation about mughal inheritance is interesting, the whole idea of Delhi as an imperial metropole is an Islamicate one. Not only is the most left leaning JNU prof carrying water for the Indian imperial project, and *needs* the Mughal inheritance to justify the legitimacy of the current structure, but so does the ram rajya crowd. The Indian capital being located outside of Hindustan proper is unacceptable to the latter.
yes you are right; we fell prey to polarisation as well. thanks for the correction
it’s all getting very serious, so some thing also brown to laugh..
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LL4QTWo4iJU
Hilariously true 😆
So @formerlybrown had posted an article by this Hyderabadi Muslim writer Yunus Lasania so I checked him out.
Some interesting observations related to previous discussions.
Even he is running a “bougie” Hyderabadi food pop up like the Raja of Mahmudabad which was mentioned in my post.
https://www.instagram.com/pazirai.hyd/
Now that Indians have a bit of disposable income, these “elevated” experiences are popping up everywhere. The 2010s were mostly “pan-Indian” “fine dining” with menus representing the entirety of India – a sort of Indian “greatest hits”.
2020s onwards lots of “local” restaurants/popups have emerged which focus on the cuisine of a certain state/region/ethnicity. And because there is greater focus now a lot of the “courses” are super specialized and not really well known outside of the community itself.
Another thing I noticed was his partner was a Muslim lady called Samiya Shakir, who has full tattoo sleeves which reminded me of the point I made where Muslims can live way more libertine lives in relatively liberal India compared to Pakistan.
India’s economic growth has meant a whole lot of new economic avenues are opening up and it is interesting to see the ways Hindustani Muslims are using it to “modernize” their culture – Zakir Khan’s Farzi Mushaira another in that vein.
Israeli Arabs are probably more advanced than Palestinians and most other Arabs but are a subordinated ethnicity.
India is not Israel; India is by definition pluralistic. But there has been a RW project to displace that.
For instance we are not Muslim or Islamicate but Persianate so we blend very well with this. We mourn Babri Masjid for its heritage value as opposed to its spiritual value. For instance we can see the Birthplace of Lord Ram is a sacred place and we are actually in excavating all sites to see what lies beneath.
The Lord Krishna Masjid comes to mind; we would be in favour of moving that Masjid so that a Temple can be built. If the Egyptians, with the help of the Soviets, could move Abu Simbel, which was a mountain, and do it perfectly then surely monuments can be moved.
Israeli Arabs have no influence over the Jews at all though. They don’t even speak the same language.
Indian Muslims have a huge influence on all Indians – music, food, language, history etc which Israeli Arabs don’t have on Israel.
Yes, I agree with doing ASI findings and then shifting if temple is found.
That is being done with Gyanvapi. Also technology has become more advanced so more methods available to determine pre-existing structures.
The ASI has found a mandir below it and the case is now going on. Not that you ever needed it considering this is more open and shut case with the temple visible but procedure must be followed.
Krishna Masjid is at a much earlier stage and the survey hasn’t been done but that too should be done in a proper manner.
In a way the Congress should have done all this in 1947 like it did for Somnath and stopped the BJP from ever forming.
In a way, having BJP in power means this is done in a more “proper” way.
Impressive building.
A lot of citizens wealth and labor spent
But does it benefit the average citizen
Did the Moguls build schools, hospitals and roads.
The Brits plundered.
But they did build railways, roads and tea plantations
Not talking about the “benefits” of these kingdoms/empires but the civilizational inheritance.
And India is the “successor state” to British India too as will be discussed in another post.
[…] Bombay Badshah on India is the successor state of the Mughal Empire (and the various Sultanates) […]
these articles in Hindustan times covers everything.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/specials/The-Mughal-Legacy-500-Years-On-101777553545934/index.html
[…] RecoveringNewsJunkie on India is the successor state of the Mughal Empire (and the various Sultanates) […]
Nice post. Loved seeing all the various monuments in their glory! In my humble opinion, you missed out on one – Bibi Ka Maqbara. Also known as, the poor man’s Taj Mahal 🙂
There will be too many.
Tomb of I’timād-ud-Daulah and Safdarjung’s Tomb are a few more.
Put this through ChatGPT as well just for fun.
Modern India is usually seen as the strongest single successor polity of the Mughal Empire for reasons of capital continuity, territorial core, institutional inheritance, and symbolic legitimacy.
1. Delhi = the imperial heart
The Mughal Empire’s political center, especially from Shah Jahan onward, was Delhi.
Red Fort was the imperial palace
Jama Masjid, Delhi was the symbolic congregational mosque
Shahjahanabad was the Mughal imperial capital
Modern India’s national capital is the same civilizational-political center: Delhi.
This continuity matters enormously. Capitals define successor legitimacy.
Britain itself recognized this—after the 1857 revolt, the British Crown deliberately took direct control from Delhi because Delhi symbolized imperial sovereignty.
2. The final Mughal emperor was deposed in Delhi
Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Mughal emperor, ruled (symbolically) from Delhi.
After the Indian Rebellion of 1857:
he was removed by the British
the Mughal Empire was formally abolished
British India became the direct successor state
Then:
British India → Dominion of India → Republic of India
This is the strongest line of formal political succession.
3. Largest share of Mughal core territory
The richest and most central Mughal provinces were largely in today’s India:
Delhi
Agra
Awadh
Allahabad
Malwa
Gujarat
Bihar
Bengal (shared historically)
Deccan provinces later
While modern Pakistan contains important Mughal regions like Lahore, Multan, and Sindh, the imperial “center of gravity” was more heavily in northern India.
Especially:
Delhi + Agra > Lahore alone
for imperial legitimacy.
4. Administrative inheritance
The British inherited and adapted many Mughal systems:
land revenue structures
district administration
elite bureaucratic patterns
legal-fiscal governance
imperial road networks and political geography
Independent India inherited much of British India’s institutional framework, which itself sat on Mughal foundations.
This creates indirect but real state continuity.
5. Symbolic ownership of Mughal monuments
India contains many of the most iconic Mughal imperial monuments:
Taj Mahal
Red Fort
Humayun’s Tomb
Fatehpur Sikri
Agra Fort
These are not just buildings—they are imperial legitimacy anchors.
6. Successor states are not about religion
Some assume Pakistan is the “natural” Mughal successor because the Mughals were Muslim rulers.
Historically, that is weak logic.
Successor states are usually determined by:
institutions
capitals
dynastic seat
political continuity—not religion alone.
Example:
modern Egypt is successor to the Pharaohs, not because religion stayed same, but because territory + state continuity did.
Same logic applies here.