This post is to be treated as Precedent on two matters.
First, on moderation
We have been alerted by Hamza that a number of Pakistani commentators on this site have been using anti-Dravidian racialised language against South Indian communities. This will not be tolerated on Brown Pundits.
Any comment that uses racialised language against Dravidian, Tamil, or South Indian communities will be removed, and the offending commenter will have twenty comments removed instantly as an automatic fine. There is no warning phase.
This is personal as well as editorial. DLV’s family was driven out of Sindh by Muhajirs at Partition. It was the Dravidians and the Tamils of Chennai who welcomed them, gave them a second home, and treated them as their own. Any racialised language against those communities on this site will be met with the full weight of the moderation tools available.
To Kabir’s credit, as far as we are aware, he is the only regular Pakistani voice on this blog who has never used racialised language of any kind, even in sharp disagreement. He remains institutional and high-minded even when the argument turns to nuclear rattling. He does not share in the wider Desi pathology with regards to skin colour and race, and that exception is worth naming. It may be the American side of him. Whatever the source, it is the standard this site expects of every commenter, Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, or otherwise.
Second, on substance
The post below establishes a framework for how this site will discuss the sacred geographies of Partition going forward. The recent Kabir-Kishore exchange on Sikh holy places, is the occasion, but the framework is intended to apply across all such disputes: Hindu sites in Pakistan, Muslim sites in India, Sikh sites on both sides of the Wagah, Buddhist sites across the subcontinent. Future BP posts on sacred geography should refer back to the founder-institutional distinction laid out here.
Founder Sites and Institutional Sites: A Note on Sikh Sacred Geography
A recent exchange on this site sets out two claims about Sikh holy places. The first says Sikhs lost most of their sacred sites to Pakistan in 1947. The second calls that claim nonsense. Both are right, and the disagreement turns on a distinction neither has named: founder sites versus institutional sites.
The Pakistan-side Holy Sites
- Gurdwara Janam Asthan, Nankana Sahib (Guru Nanak’s birthplace, 1469)
- Gurdwara Darbar Sahib, Kartarpur (where Guru Nanak spent his final eighteen years and died in 1539)
- Gurdwara Panja Sahib, Hasan Abdal
- Gurdwara Dera Sahib, Lahore (martyrdom site of Guru Arjan, 1606)
- Gurdwara Rori Sahib, Eminabad
- Gurdwara Sacha Sauda, Farooqabad
Every site tied to Guru Nanak’s own life sits inside Pakistan. That is the founder geography.
The India-side Holy Sites
- Harmandir Sahib, Amritsar (the Golden Temple, the spiritual centre of the Panth)
- Akal Takht, Amritsar (the first and highest of the Five Takhts)
- Takht Sri Patna Sahib, Bihar (birthplace of Guru Gobind Singh)
- Takht Sri Kesgarh Sahib, Anandpur (founding of the Khalsa, 1699)
- Takht Sri Hazur Sahib, Nanded (cremation site of Guru Gobind Singh)
- Takht Sri Damdama Sahib, Talwandi Sabo
- Gurdwara Bangla Sahib, Delhi
- Gurdwara Sis Ganj Sahib, Delhi (martyrdom site of Guru Tegh Bahadur)
Every Takht, the entire seat of institutional Sikh authority, sits in India. That is the institutional geography.
Both claims resolve
The life of the founder runs across Pakistani soil from birth to death. The living architecture of the Panth, its temples of sovereignty and its mother shrine, sits in India. Neither reading is false. They are counting different things.
The Bahá’í parallel
The Bahá’í Faith shows the same structure in sharper relief. The founder sites sit in Iran: the House of the Báb in Shiraz, the Síyáh-Chál of Tehran where Bahá’u’lláh received his revelation, the family homes across Mazandaran. Each is a pilgrimage site. The institutional sites sit in the Holy Land: the Shrine of the Báb on Mount Carmel, the Shrine of Bahá’u’lláh at Bahjí near Acre, the Universal House of Justice in Haifa. Each is also a pilgrimage site. Both geographies are sacred. Yet the Holy Land matters more than the cradle. In a strange way the Faith needs Haifa more than it needs Shiraz just as the Roman Catholic Church needs Vatican more than Jerusalem.
The House of the Báb in Shiraz was demolished by Revolutionary Guards in September 1979, paved over, and the site converted first into a public square and later into a road. It was the single most sacred site in Iranian Bahá’í geography. Its destruction did not end the Faith. The pulse had already moved to Mount Carmel.
The deeper argument
Founder sites are irreplaceable in sentiment. Institutional sites are irreplaceable in function. A religion can survive the loss of its founder sites. It cannot survive the loss of its institutional sites, because institutions are what transmit the tradition across generations. The Sikhs kept the Akal Takht. That is why the Panth remains coherent despite losing Nankana. The Bahá’ís kept Haifa. That is why the Faith remains coherent despite losing Shiraz.
The Kartarpur Corridor
The visa-free bridge from the Indian border to Gurdwara Darbar Sahib was finally inaugurated in November 2019, more than seventy years after Partition. It operated through the pandemic, through diplomatic chills, through successive Pakistani governments. It was closed, by the Indian government, in the wake of Operation Sindoor in 2025. A corridor that took half a century to build took weeks to shut. The founder site is once again out of reach, visible through the binoculars the Indian government installed at the border.
The puzzle of Sikh consent
Given that partition cost the Sikhs their founder geography, why did the Sikh leadership consent to it? Master Tara Singh unsheathed his kirpan outside the Punjab Assembly in March 1947 and led the Akali Dal into the partition camp. The calculation was political survival against sacred geography, and political survival won. The Sikhs feared Muslim-majority rule in a united Punjab more than they feared losing Nankana. They traded Nankana for the Akal Takht. It was a rational trade. It was also a tragic one. They kept the pulse of the religion and lost its cradle.
The Confederation that never was
Here is the counterfactual the subcontinent refuses to examine. Partition was not the only way to resolve 1947. A confederated India, organised into cultural and linguistic zones rather than two warring states, could have preserved every sacred geography across the board.
The zones write themselves from the map:
- Zone A: Greater Indus, stretching from the Khyber potentially to Delhi, anchored on Lahore and Karachi
- Zone B: Hindustan proper, the Gangetic heartland
- Zone C: Greater Bengal, centred on Calcutta and Dhaka
- Zone D: A Dravidian south, anchored on Madras
Extend the logic outward and the confederation could have drawn in Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, the Maldives, and Mauritius. A subcontinental bloc stretching from Kabul to Yangon would have been a hyperpower nothing could deconstruct.
The Brits failed at this. So did Congress. So did the Muslim League. Everyone wanted unilateral power. No one was a visionary. Jinnah wanted a sovereign Pakistan. Nehru wanted a centralised India. Mountbatten wanted a quick exit. None of them imagined a structure that could hold Nankana Sahib and Harmandir Sahib inside the same polity while still granting Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, and everyone else genuine self-governance over their own cultural and religious space.
This is the genius of the Jambudvīpa idea, and of Dharma more broadly. The Indic civilisational tradition has always understood that the subcontinent is not one thing but a federation of things. Bengal is not Punjab. Tamil Nadu is not Gujarat. Sindh is not Kashmir. Each has its own language, its own saints, its own temperament. A confederation that recognised this, granted each zone real autonomy over its own religious and cultural life, and pooled sovereignty only for defence, currency, and external relations would have given every community the one thing 1947 actually denied them: the freedom to be themselves inside a structure too large to fail.
Instead the subcontinent got two states, three wars, a bomb on each side, and a Kartarpur Corridor that opens and closes with the weather of the relationship.
Closing
The wish that Punjabi Muslims claim Guru Nanak as shared heritage is worth supporting. Nanak’s teaching that there is neither Hindu nor Muslim was not sectarian diplomacy. It was a theological claim about the singular source of God. A Punjab on either side of the Wagah that could hold that claim would be closer to what Nanak actually taught, and closer to the confederal Jambudvīpa that 1947 destroyed.
Until then, the binoculars remain.

1) Sikhs loosing their cradle and keeping takhts. Happens all the time.
Similar to Serbs loosing kosavo, Russians loosing Kiev, Armenians loosing van, Hindu Bengalis loosing east,mohajars loosing ajmer and nizamiddin, sodha Marwadis loosing amarkot.
2) Dravidian south cannot be anchored in madras. Well, many tamilians including some political parties are distancing from Dravidian ‘faith’. Also sadly a majority of south Indians are not willing to accept noisy Tamil overlords and not willing to be called Dravidians as the word has a narrow meaning these days.
Why would they make racist comments or derogatory comments towards Dravidians is beyond me.
We have preserved our culture, we are thriving, and we are educated. Nevertheless, there’s a lot for us to achieve.
We have a rich history, arts, poetry, and monuments to showcase, within peninsular India and thousands of miles of away.
Because of skin colour I assume.
Pakistan also has a lot of darker skinned individuals, but mostly poorer/lower caste hence there is a mental association of superiority.
Not only are Dravidians the best off in South Asia and have a really bright future (Will be the first part of South Asia to become “first world” they have also had a far glorious past than what is Pakistan).
The Indo-Islamic culture that Pakistan claims is 85-90% within India.
And to cap it off, Dravidians are the most friendly people towards Pakistan with no specific animus towards them.
Pictured: Pakistani Christian cricketer Yousuf Youhana of the chuhra caste. He later converted to Islam. Probably the greatest Dalit cricketer.
It’s not about color, it’s more of a reaction against your constant obsession and vilification of Pakistanis and the repeated insults against our identity and country. It’s the fact you can dish it but can’t take it and this is a common pattern across social media platforms when Pakistanis do react in kind.
Nuh-uh, don’t lie.
Why Dravidian though? Why not something like Bihari? Biharis are the poorest and most backward community in India.
Is it because of plenty of Biharis in your own country, including ones controlling the financial capital of Karachi?
Are you one too?
Bihari control financial capital in Khi? Memons?
Just Mohajirs in general.
Muhajirs are more white collar. It’s memons who dominate business in Pakistan. Whether it’s the new owners of PIA or the various media houses in Pakistan.
Memons are also Muhajirs, just Gujarati ones instead of from UP/Bihar.
Most of them don’t identify as such and Sindhi nationalists don’t exactly consider them muhajirs as their ancestral roots go back to Sindh.
Memons identify as Muhajirs (and still do) in opposition to Sindhis and others. But since they are not urdu speakers, they also don’t fit perfectly, but because they are urban, they are still culturally more aligned with Muhajirs than Sindhis.
Yeah I guess it’s more nuanced.
Karachi’s financial sector is dominated by Memons and some other ethnic groups I won’t name for national security reasons.
Why Dravidian though? Why not something like Bihari? Biharis are the poorest and most backward community in India.
There isn’t a lot of them on the internet and majority of the hate we’ve detected on Pakistani forums and social media spaces traces back to southern India or the south Indian diaspora in America. There’s a lot of evidence for this and a topic of conversation within the community. They use messaging services like whatsapp and telegram to coordinate disinfo campaigns and brigade Pakistani online spaces.
This isn’t racist, it’s just a data-driven observation.
There are a lot of Biharis on the internet especially X and they are at the forefront of online Hindutva and Pakistani hate. eg HindutvaKnight etc.
This isn’t the 2010s anymore.
All Biharis have internet due to Jio.
Maybe but not to the extent of south Indians. They don’t do it as a hobby, a lot of major tech companies and “body shop” consultancies have online troll farms and disinfo teams, they make their employees post nationalist propaganda and anti-Pakistani, islamophobic content, which does violate their visa. Most of the internet traffic on Pakistani websites and online spaces comes from India and that too, mostly from southern India.
Respectfully, I need numbers! How do you even track these ?
skin color, urdu pronunciation, and ‘bad’ English/ accent are common Pakistani dog-whistles on bigotry aimed at Indians, and not just Hindus.
The delusion and bigotry go together. The feigned superiority is a common symptom of an inferiority complex.
Pakistanis have even worse English though.
“Boys played well” is a common joke in cricketing circles.
I don’t think bragging about accents or ‘English’ is a “win” for either party. It just betrays an immature mindset.
It’s a joke only among Indian circles stemming from Inzamam’s use of that phrase.
Indian circles ARE cricketing circles.
Check out r/cricket lol.
That sub is like 80% Indian
Exactly.
Indian circles ARE cricketing circles.
Which makes them just Indian. The “running joke” is just regular Indian bigotry against Pakistanis.
Inzamam and “running” is another joke in itself. 😂
Good batsman though. Scored plenty of runs against us.
Unlike the current day crop of “King”, “No Look” etc.
>skin color, urdu pronunciation, and ‘bad’ English/ accent
Indians are extremely sensitive about all these three, and Pakistanis have picked it up on it.
I remember vaguely when the opening match of the 2011 was played between India and Bangladesh in Dhaka, I was in an Indian group. The amount of racist and vile comments against Bengali women passed on by Indians whenever the camera panned into the Dhaka crowd was shocking, because funnily enough these same guys had opposite reaction when the camera panned into the Pakistani crowd in another match in the same tournament. We know your dirty secrets dude.. and from the trends on X, it appears that even the whites are now catching onto it.
Bad Urdu & English pronounication is just a low hanging fruit, most Indians speak these langauges pretty confidently but they speak it improperly, it’s just lunch for the bullies.
Yeah there’s a lot of racism towards Bengalis and Sri Lankans from Indians and towards other Indians. Even now the nasty stuff heard from Indians about Bangladeshis is insane, like the slurs they came up with – I’ve never heard a Pakistani ever say that. They really look down on Bangladeshis. As for Sri Lankans, I remember back in school there were a lot of Indians (mostly south Indians) in my class and they would make fun of the darker skin ones in their group as “Sri Lankan” even though there’s really no discernible difference but they do have this superiority complex against Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans.
Ironically the most racist stuff I’ve heard about south Indians has come from North Indians in America (mostly Gujaratis, Punjabi Sikhs and Indian Bengalis), for some reason they think I’d approve of what they’re saying as a Pakistani but I don’t have an interest in India’s internal dynamics.
So you are a cricket fan and lived through Mohali. 😆
Wonder what the breakdown will look like if you do the sites of the Indo-Islamic culture that Pakistanis claim.
Almost all of the major palaces, capitals, tombs, monuments etc are within India whether they are from the Delhi Sultanate era, the Mughal era or the later Nizam/Nawab era.
Lahore is the only site with a few major Mughal monuments.
A similar sites division of the Sikh Empire and the IVC will be far more favourable to Pakistan imo.