Yes, the Pakistanis are eager to gratify and are very flexible. The diplomacy gymnasts are putting on a show.
Meanwhile the US screw tightening on India lends a background cacophony of wailing in the Indian press.
There is much hand wringing too over the ineffectiveness/absence of lobbing by the diaspora. What is the point of celebrating all those Indian origin CEO’s if they produce little visible benefits to the Indian masses.
I wonder if the Americans are going to keep lecturing everybody about ‘democratic values’ as shamelessly as before.
Indian nationalists need to be taken down a few pegs. They have this attitude that India is some kind of superpower in waiting. What they don’t realize is that asides from its large market, it’s not a country that is really important to anyone. America was interested in using India against China but now President Trump clearly doesn’t care about doing that.
As a Pakistani, I’m not particularly thrilled with PM Sharif calling Trump a “man of peace” when the US is the main obstacle in ending the genocide in Gaza. But no one can deny that flattery works. PM Sharif also gave him credit once again for forcing India into a ceasefire–music to President Trump’s ears.
From the time when the Biden administration wouldn’t give Pakistan the time of day and was firmly in India’s camp to the current day when India is firmly on the outside and PM Sharif and Field Marshal Munir are in the Oval Office–the times are truly changing.
What strikes me is the eerie parallel, almost a cyclical repeat of the 1920s era where American isolationism was a powerful force politically. I mean well into the 1930s where mainstream personalities like Charles Lindbergh advocated isolationism to the extent of making nice with the Nazis….
The flu pandemic of 1918 (also started in China IIRC), the international trade turmoil, the billionaire era, – just so many parallels.
If I were not an optimist I’d start to be seriously concerned about WW3 being around the corner.
The fears of the US going ‘full authoritarian’ are overblown IMHO. Has Trump permanently scarred American democracy? Undoubtedly. And the sins of early 2000s ‘corporations are people’ and failure to enact campaign finance reform are reaping the whirlwind structurally. But, lets not get carried away.
From an Indian perspective, it is indeed a bit hard to stomach the extent to which Pak has been excused from its ostracization post-pahalgam. And is it all due to Trump’s transactional instincts seeing a significant leverage opportunity?
Or is it due to some re-balancing of Pak and Ind based on the military outcomes of Pahalgam? I mean, its clear that ultimately India prevailed in the short skirmish, but Pak managed to land a few blows early on, and expensive ones at that. If this is a factor even a minor one, its a theory that is obviously utterly unappetizing for hardcore Indian nationalists to stomach.
What happened here? Did the Pakistanis bomb their own people?
There are pictures of Tirah valley Pastuns holding up fragments of the Tail fins of Mk-80 series American bombs used on them.
Looks like non-surgical strike, dumb bombs killing women and children victims. (Some reports have more deaths than India’s strikes in Muridke and Bhawalpur)
let the man have his snark. I mean folks like BB are snarky enough in ‘retaliation’. As long as there are guardrails to prevent him from monopolizing the conversation, and carpet-bombing his skewed perspective, I think its not the worst thing to give him a bit of rope.
Lives lost is always tragic, but the reality is that this is depressingly ‘normal’ as far as Pakistan goes. Balochistan and East Durand line areas have been perpetually abused since 1947. I do not see this changing anytime soon.
ebb and flow will continue, but PakMil strong enough to continue dominating the geography. But not strong enough to pull a ‘Jaffna’ style extermination – militarily as well as politically.
Its a human tragedy. And with PakMil being propped by by Uncle Cheen, Saud and now once again Uncle Sam, expect the status quo to persist.
Sure, absolutely. Btw how do you feel about the Pak airforce massacre in Tahir valley?
You seem very quiet over it. I’ve mentioned it twice.
Could not contain your loquacious anguish over the women and children killed in the Bhawalpur compound of Masood Azhar.
I know, I know. It’s hard to pin this one on India.
Your legitimate PM sitting in jail is tweeting about it though (#TirahValley). Facts can’t be ignored forever.
It’s ok, what Pakistan does in its own territory isn’t a topic that really interests me at all. I just wanted to drive in the point about very selective heartburn.
If something is not reported in DAWN or in reputed global media, I don’t need to take it seriously.
“Your legitimate PM”– Imran Khan is NOT the legitimate PM. I don’t know what you are smoking. He was removed through a parliamentary vote of no confidence in 2022. Parliamentary votes of non confidence are a perfectly normal part of the Westminster system. He was not a candidate in 2024 and he’s not likely to be contesting elections anytime soon.
In any case, if he ever comes back to power, he’s not going to surrender before India. So I don’t know why you have great love for him.
Aljazeera not legit anymore I see – look at the link, Dawn will never ever report it (for obvious reasons).
Personally I like Imran Khan, I don’t agree with any of his politics, but there is a basic decency about the man, he stands for something (democracy and some level of honesty), that is rare and should be encouraged.
Anyways, this is one more of those critical dissonance moments Kabir, it really does not matter what evidence is shown, you could see the bomb falling in front of your very eyes and you will deny it. As a genuine question, what atrocity will it take for you to see the reality of your political & military establishment.
Gaza is happening only with continued Trump patronage, it would be impossible without, your leaders are nominating him for a Nobel prize and cozying up with glee.
Imran Khan does not stand for democracy. The fact that you think he does means that you know next to nothing about Pakistan. He was brought into power by the Pakistan Army– at a time when Mian Sahab and Maryam Bibi were in jail– and was removed when he got on the wrong side of the Pakistan Army. Imran Khan would be fine with military rule if it meant he got to be PM. That’s literally all he and his people care about.
Plus he’s incredibly right-wing. He is on record as stating that women are raped because they don’t wear appropriate clothing. He was not called “Taliban Khan” for nothing. He said extremely nasty misogynistic things about Maryam Bibi (some of those things are unforgivable).
I already noted that I’m not happy that PM Sharif called President Trump a “man of peace”. Please don’t forget I’m an American citizen. It is my tax dollars that are being sent to Israel. One can recognize the hypocrisy of Pakistan’s leadership while also recognizing that flattery can sometimes be a diplomatic strategy.
In contrast, India might have the moral high ground but when you’ve lost the goodwill of the most important country in the world, what does that moral high ground really get you?
It’s interesting every active member of the Commentariat now has Author Privileges; but Kabir started off with them first.
I feel the Pakistan(i)s are always held back by their arrogance, to some extent. but then interestingly enough they are arrogant in a South Asian context but never in a Western or especially Middle Eastern context.
It makes perfect sense. I’m not going to interfere in your threads that don’t have to do with Pakistan. But attacks on my country have to be countered.
Indians and Indian-Americans have been attacked relentlessly by MAGAs and their affiliates since Trump’s reelection. I wouldn’t be surprised if even the richest and most powerful Indian-Americans (especially if they are first-generation immigrants) now feel a lot of apprehension about their own place in American society and question the degree to which they belong there.
On social media, assorted white nationalists (MAGAs and others) keep thinking about (and ranting about) Indians as a collective, when in reality, all Indians immigrate to the US as individuals (or at most, nuclear families). Other than being somewhat relieved at seeing the faces of people who look like them, Indians in the US have very little sense of community as a whole. They definitely aren’t like the mid-19th century Irish who moved en masse as a community and didn’t take slights from the nativists lightly.
So I’m not surprised by the lack of public commentary on India-US relations by prominent Indians in the US. They are looking out for themselves and their families, first and foremost. In the current political climate, any defense of India, however mild, will be perceived by Trump’s base as virtual treason. On various social media forums, the only things Indians are allowed to do (lest a swarm of MAGAs descend on them) is shit on India and other Indians, wile portraying themselves as exceptions who fit into Western societies.
Protestants – Republicans – Conservatives have historically loved Arab Muslims Orientalism etc
I have no idea what you are smoking. It is just the Lawrence of Arabia, also called Orientalist types that loved Arab Muslim Men. I hope you know which team Lawrence of Arabia was on, it is the other team.
Lot of English upper class, Eton, Oxford types also “Love” Arab Muslim men.
I have family in Edison. I have spent years in finance tech. What’s your point?
Its one thing to have a hostile perspective, quite another to let bias slip into plain old prejudice. Might want to think about that. Your anti-India emotions are a bit more politely camouflaged than Kabir’s but lately the mask is slipping, and frequently. Just an observation.
The Trumpists barely care about democratic values at home, let alone abroad. So there won’t be any lecturing from them.
But, as we have seen recently, the absence of lecturing is not friendly support and tolerance but rather arm-twisting, squeezing, and blackmail.
As our right-wingers have hopefully realized, it’s better to have (in the US Oval Office) a schoolteacher who is generally friendly and well-meaning but occasionally indulges in paternalistic rebukes rather than a mob boss that won’t lecture you but will keep trying to collect hafta from you.
Hope these fools have realized that Trump and MAGA were not the better option for India compared to Democrats just because the New York Times and the Washington Post occasionally wrote editorials critical of Modi.
Yeah I think Modi really did not expect Trump 2.0 to take this hard turn on a trivial Indo-Pak war credit.
To be fair it is very very confusing.
The deep state US (CIA etc) felt far closer to the democrats & there is the perpetual fear within the BJP that the US ‘deep state’ bats for the congress with NYT, WaPo, Economist & meetings with Donald Lu & Rahul etc. Trump was supposed to be ‘cleaner’, but now with the Epstein mess these are very muddy waters.
Modi seems to have completely given up on US reconciliation and is now playing the self reliance card.
I know it all sounds very conspiracy theory, but I think we will see the Indian Govt really try to batten down the hatches and just focus on domestic issues for the next 6 months.
I think Trump is addicted to zigging when zagging is the ‘expected’ move diplomatically. The idea that he can somehow find a way to take credit for a grand bargain in the middle-east, and use the Pakistanis in that process is simply too …tasty for him to ignore. Even if it doesn’t work, he can still get a lot of ‘glory’. That for him is the bigger carrot, not the Ind-Pak ceasefire ‘credit’ IMHO.
This, so much this. The passionate simping for Drumpf and Maga by Indian RW-ers has karmically (comically) come to bite them. Its almost….. satisfying if not for the real economic costs and pain being inflicted on vulnerable Indians.
bombay_badshah
2 months ago
I mean beyond some photo ops, what has it changed on the ground?
Kashmir’s status remains the same. IWT is in abeyance (big thing which Pakistanis have completely ignored).
Pakistan economy is still in the doldrums. BLA/TTP still rampant.
There is some value in the photo ops, don’t disregard it so easily.
Still, I think the Israel – US – Gaza – Qatar madness has created a very fast moving board.
In some ways it is better not to play this game, we have neither the nimbleness nor the moral flexibility.
Thankfully we stuck it out with the Russians, they sort out the energy issue. India is on the cusp of self sufficiency for everything else. This is an added impetus. Long term all these (Tariffs/H1B/Immigration shutdown) are positives with some short term pain.
There is a great deal of realism in India about its standing in the world and the power differentials that exist. The smart thing to so is to “hide your strength, bide your time”
yes, but the problem is the shrinking window to bootstrap manufacturing. Sleeping on this during the 2008-2020 years may yet hamstring India’s future. This is a non-trivial risk and requires an emergency ‘all hands on deck’ approach for reform and economic stewardship. And to be honest, while there is some tangible progress its nearly not enough. Yet.
Pakistan has less than half the tariffs that India has – thats not a photo-op, its real economic consequences.
And you simply cannot deny that Pakistan has been given a public let-off from the ‘penalty box’ it found itself in the post BinLaden era. That in itself is a massive W for Pakistan.
You cannot be taken seriously if you’re going to be one-eyed. Objectivity is important.
Honey Singh
2 months ago
I would like to apologize for my behaviour on this site, especially when I have resorted to vile insults.
I apologize to anyone who is hurt including @Kabir
This is my last post on this site as I retire, having passed on my mantle to my good friend @Bombay Badshah
Really? I thought Shahbaz is there precisely because he has no charisma and cannot be the popular leader.
Musharraf, Imran, even Nawaz to some degree came across with the energy and charisma.
Shahbaz tends to wave his hands about and gesticulate wildly. Also terrible suits.
I don’t get the suit and haircut issue. So easily fixable. But the guy I think knows that he is being laughed at, and embraces it, slightly to his advantage at least as far as domestic politics are concerned.
Interestingly, Netanyahu’s speech and visual prop and map he held up at one point seemed a review of all the regime changes in the Middle East. “We removed an existential threat to Iran, to Israel, rather, and a mortal threat to the civilized world. We lifted a dark cloud that could have claimed millions and millions of lives. But, ladies and gentlemen, we must remain vigilant,” he said.
Syria was also overthrown, and Lebanon’s Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah assassinated last year
Nivedita said Trump may go, but America has shifted permanently to a more insular, xenophobic state.
Not quite xenophobic as in getting rid of potentially a vocal Pro Palestinian population like Ilhan Omar and Zohoran Mamadani (Mira Nair’s son),
There is talk in WhatsApp etc that the anti H-1B is a AIPAC (Zionist) agenda that Trump has been forced to adopt. It is not spoken in US Public because can be labelled Anti Semitic and then get cancelled.
Keep in mind AIPAC controls many in Congress.
Something to put in your pipe, smoke.and think about
Indians abroad (the CEO’s and the other “thought leaders”) are all paper tigers imo. Good followers who do well in
More like they know who is calling the shots, so lying low and keeping quiet
Last edited 2 months ago by sbarrkum
sbarrkum
2 months ago
Although Iranian officials in January confirmed that orders had been placed for new Su-35 fighters, which are considerably larger and longer ranged, the possibility remains that the MiG-29 will be procured in greater numbers, with the aircraft having far lower procurement and operational costs which may lead them to be seen as more cost effective.
Also rumors that Iran is buying Chinese J-10C jets.
That should make the Israelis think twice about attacking Iran again.
Despite Israeli and US (Zionist AIPAC) propaganda, Iran is a much more peaceful country compared to Israel.
Since Oct 7th 2023 Confirmed killed: at least 65,549 people, including at least 19,424 children. Injured: at least 167,518 people
See Israel-Gaza war death toll: Live tracker on Al-Jazeera https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iranian-air-force-first-new-russian-fighters-30-years
I’m sympathetic to Iran generally but a bunch of MiG-29s and J-10Cs are not going to stop Israel. I’m pretty sure it will have an opposite impact because Israel will attack with even more fervour.
Iran resists Israeli air attacks only if China directly gets involved. But who knows, maybe China will get involved.
fwiw I don’t agree with Pakistan’s foreign policy AT ALL. I would suggest to Pakistan to immediately disclaim any interest to any claims outside it’s current borders and focus on HDI metrics
but again I’m trying to understand where was the evidence to suggest Pahalgam was Pakistan?
I’m just saying a thorough investigation that would have further isolated Pakistan. the rational logical approach.. is far preferable
sbarrkum
2 months ago
A message from Iran to Israel ??
include the full names, personal details, addresses, and professional links of 189 nuclear and military specialists connected to Israeli weapons programs
addition, there are documents showing official influence exerted by Israeli officials and American senators on the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and their receipt of information about our peaceful nuclear program.”
Assata Shakur passed away September 25, 2025 (aged 78)
in Havana, Cuba(aged 78)
Listen to Assata, the opposite of Martin Luther Kings message and in very similar intonation and accent. A pleasure to listen
born JoAnne Deborah Byron; July 16, 1947[a] – September 25, 2025) was an American political activist and a member of the Black Liberation Army (BLA). In 1977,
Married Louis Chesimard in 1967; div. 1970
as if not expecting black people to be intelligent and engaged. She said she was taught a sugar-coated version of history that ignored the oppression suffered by people of color, especially in the United States. In her autobiography, she wrote: “I didn’t know what a fool they had made out of me until i grew up and started to read real history.”
====
Even when in Sri Lanka I was into the Black power movement in my early teens
Yes, the Pakistanis are eager to gratify and are very flexible. The diplomacy gymnasts are putting on a show.
Meanwhile the US screw tightening on India lends a background cacophony of wailing in the Indian press.
There is much hand wringing too over the ineffectiveness/absence of lobbing by the diaspora. What is the point of celebrating all those Indian origin CEO’s if they produce little visible benefits to the Indian masses.
I wonder if the Americans are going to keep lecturing everybody about ‘democratic values’ as shamelessly as before.
I think many forget this quote Indians are learning
“It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.” ― Henry Kissinger
Indian nationalists need to be taken down a few pegs. They have this attitude that India is some kind of superpower in waiting. What they don’t realize is that asides from its large market, it’s not a country that is really important to anyone. America was interested in using India against China but now President Trump clearly doesn’t care about doing that.
As a Pakistani, I’m not particularly thrilled with PM Sharif calling Trump a “man of peace” when the US is the main obstacle in ending the genocide in Gaza. But no one can deny that flattery works. PM Sharif also gave him credit once again for forcing India into a ceasefire–music to President Trump’s ears.
From the time when the Biden administration wouldn’t give Pakistan the time of day and was firmly in India’s camp to the current day when India is firmly on the outside and PM Sharif and Field Marshal Munir are in the Oval Office–the times are truly changing.
Naah, Pak nationalists need to be taken down a peg.
India is indeed a superpower in waiting.
The third largest economy in the world is super important.
Even Trump admits India can sustain a war in some other continent.
That “large market” will lead to dominance.
Trump flips all the time. He will be gone in 2028. Ind will be even richer. Pak even poorer.
hmm will Trump be “gone?”
Let’s see.
What strikes me is the eerie parallel, almost a cyclical repeat of the 1920s era where American isolationism was a powerful force politically. I mean well into the 1930s where mainstream personalities like Charles Lindbergh advocated isolationism to the extent of making nice with the Nazis….
The flu pandemic of 1918 (also started in China IIRC), the international trade turmoil, the billionaire era, – just so many parallels.
If I were not an optimist I’d start to be seriously concerned about WW3 being around the corner.
The fears of the US going ‘full authoritarian’ are overblown IMHO. Has Trump permanently scarred American democracy? Undoubtedly. And the sins of early 2000s ‘corporations are people’ and failure to enact campaign finance reform are reaping the whirlwind structurally. But, lets not get carried away.
From an Indian perspective, it is indeed a bit hard to stomach the extent to which Pak has been excused from its ostracization post-pahalgam. And is it all due to Trump’s transactional instincts seeing a significant leverage opportunity?
Or is it due to some re-balancing of Pak and Ind based on the military outcomes of Pahalgam? I mean, its clear that ultimately India prevailed in the short skirmish, but Pak managed to land a few blows early on, and expensive ones at that. If this is a factor even a minor one, its a theory that is obviously utterly unappetizing for hardcore Indian nationalists to stomach.
r u staying or leaving. I thought you had gone for good?
I wasn’t going to post on this, as Kabir was supposedly not around.
But now that he is.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/23/calls-for-probe-after-killing-of-civilians-reported-in-northwest-pakistan
What happened here? Did the Pakistanis bomb their own people?
There are pictures of Tirah valley Pastuns holding up fragments of the Tail fins of Mk-80 series American bombs used on them.
Looks like non-surgical strike, dumb bombs killing women and children victims. (Some reports have more deaths than India’s strikes in Muridke and Bhawalpur)
yes it’s fine; I don’t mind Kabir returning but he shouldn’t be snarky
let the man have his snark. I mean folks like BB are snarky enough in ‘retaliation’. As long as there are guardrails to prevent him from monopolizing the conversation, and carpet-bombing his skewed perspective, I think its not the worst thing to give him a bit of rope.
Considering KPK, Balochistan, Afghanistan TFRs Pakistan is in for decades of pain.
Kashmir meanwhile TFR has declined a lot. The issue will die completely in two decades.
You need young men for armed insurgencies.
Lives lost is always tragic, but the reality is that this is depressingly ‘normal’ as far as Pakistan goes. Balochistan and East Durand line areas have been perpetually abused since 1947. I do not see this changing anytime soon.
Increase in capability though.
2nd worst loss of security forces so far since 2000 (2009 was higher) and we still have 3 months left.
And in the late 2000s insurgent death to soldier death was 5:1. Now its roughly 1:1 so bad times for Pakistan.
ebb and flow will continue, but PakMil strong enough to continue dominating the geography. But not strong enough to pull a ‘Jaffna’ style extermination – militarily as well as politically.
Its a human tragedy. And with PakMil being propped by by Uncle Cheen, Saud and now once again Uncle Sam, expect the status quo to persist.
That’s good enough.
An occupied Pakistan with a shit economy means India peels away further and works on Kashmir more.
Calm your language pls somewhat or less crude
If you write about my country, I will have to comment.
Otherwise, I don’t care.
Sure, absolutely. Btw how do you feel about the Pak airforce massacre in Tahir valley?
You seem very quiet over it. I’ve mentioned it twice.
Could not contain your loquacious anguish over the women and children killed in the Bhawalpur compound of Masood Azhar.
Not responding to your propaganda sorry.
I know, I know. It’s hard to pin this one on India.
Your legitimate PM sitting in jail is tweeting about it though (#TirahValley). Facts can’t be ignored forever.
It’s ok, what Pakistan does in its own territory isn’t a topic that really interests me at all. I just wanted to drive in the point about very selective heartburn.
If something is not reported in DAWN or in reputed global media, I don’t need to take it seriously.
“Your legitimate PM”– Imran Khan is NOT the legitimate PM. I don’t know what you are smoking. He was removed through a parliamentary vote of no confidence in 2022. Parliamentary votes of non confidence are a perfectly normal part of the Westminster system. He was not a candidate in 2024 and he’s not likely to be contesting elections anytime soon.
In any case, if he ever comes back to power, he’s not going to surrender before India. So I don’t know why you have great love for him.
Aljazeera not legit anymore I see – look at the link, Dawn will never ever report it (for obvious reasons).
Personally I like Imran Khan, I don’t agree with any of his politics, but there is a basic decency about the man, he stands for something (democracy and some level of honesty), that is rare and should be encouraged.
Anyways, this is one more of those critical dissonance moments Kabir, it really does not matter what evidence is shown, you could see the bomb falling in front of your very eyes and you will deny it. As a genuine question, what atrocity will it take for you to see the reality of your political & military establishment.
Gaza is happening only with continued Trump patronage, it would be impossible without, your leaders are nominating him for a Nobel prize and cozying up with glee.
Imran Khan does not stand for democracy. The fact that you think he does means that you know next to nothing about Pakistan. He was brought into power by the Pakistan Army– at a time when Mian Sahab and Maryam Bibi were in jail– and was removed when he got on the wrong side of the Pakistan Army. Imran Khan would be fine with military rule if it meant he got to be PM. That’s literally all he and his people care about.
Plus he’s incredibly right-wing. He is on record as stating that women are raped because they don’t wear appropriate clothing. He was not called “Taliban Khan” for nothing. He said extremely nasty misogynistic things about Maryam Bibi (some of those things are unforgivable).
I already noted that I’m not happy that PM Sharif called President Trump a “man of peace”. Please don’t forget I’m an American citizen. It is my tax dollars that are being sent to Israel. One can recognize the hypocrisy of Pakistan’s leadership while also recognizing that flattery can sometimes be a diplomatic strategy.
In contrast, India might have the moral high ground but when you’ve lost the goodwill of the most important country in the world, what does that moral high ground really get you?
It’s interesting every active member of the Commentariat now has Author Privileges; but Kabir started off with them first.
I feel the Pakistan(i)s are always held back by their arrogance, to some extent. but then interestingly enough they are arrogant in a South Asian context but never in a Western or especially Middle Eastern context.
Mere paas Maa hai.
Hahahaha, this explains the Pakistani mentality.
When a country is powerful enough you don’t need the goodwill of the “most important country in the world”. And that power is only growing.
But when one is used to being a pet, what do they know?
Well actually that makes no sens; this is not the only space that writes on Pakistan
It makes perfect sense. I’m not going to interfere in your threads that don’t have to do with Pakistan. But attacks on my country have to be countered.
Why “brother”?
This is just some online space. How do “attacks” here affect you?
Why don’t you counter “real” attacks on your country?
Like the one @Indosaurus mentioned?
Isn’t Tirah valley Pakistan? Didn’t Pakistani women and children die?
Or are you insinuating it is not Pakistan?
Are you in agreement with Afghan nationalists about the invalidity of the Durand Line?
Ok Honey Singh. Calm down.
Don’t deflect?
Do you consider people from FATA less “Pakistani”?
I have immense respect for each and every citizen of Pakistan. Is that clear enough for you?
BB – let Kabir breathe please. I have given you Author privileges, write what you want.
this is classic example of the Streisand effect; the more you try to “Defend Pakistan”, the more the threads become derailed by Indo-Pak.
in your absence (as Indosaurus predicted, a few days); the tone and tenor were rapidly shifting..
Indians and Indian-Americans have been attacked relentlessly by MAGAs and their affiliates since Trump’s reelection. I wouldn’t be surprised if even the richest and most powerful Indian-Americans (especially if they are first-generation immigrants) now feel a lot of apprehension about their own place in American society and question the degree to which they belong there.
On social media, assorted white nationalists (MAGAs and others) keep thinking about (and ranting about) Indians as a collective, when in reality, all Indians immigrate to the US as individuals (or at most, nuclear families). Other than being somewhat relieved at seeing the faces of people who look like them, Indians in the US have very little sense of community as a whole. They definitely aren’t like the mid-19th century Irish who moved en masse as a community and didn’t take slights from the nativists lightly.
So I’m not surprised by the lack of public commentary on India-US relations by prominent Indians in the US. They are looking out for themselves and their families, first and foremost. In the current political climate, any defense of India, however mild, will be perceived by Trump’s base as virtual treason. On various social media forums, the only things Indians are allowed to do (lest a swarm of MAGAs descend on them) is shit on India and other Indians, wile portraying themselves as exceptions who fit into Western societies.
yes I wrote a tweet on this; this is the WASPification of America
Protestants – Republicans – Conservatives have historically loved Arab Muslims Orientalism etc
but Empire is Empire
Protestants – Republicans – Conservatives have historically loved Arab Muslims Orientalism etc
I have no idea what you are smoking. It is just the Lawrence of Arabia, also called Orientalist types that loved Arab Muslim Men. I hope you know which team Lawrence of Arabia was on, it is the other team.
Lot of English upper class, Eton, Oxford types also “Love” Arab Muslim men.
Once again, this is a short term pain, long term positive. Nothing rallies people to their tribe faster than fear.
some days the comment threads don’t budge; others it just races ahead.
it might be the Kabir effect tbh
he does have an outsize effect on the comments.. but also we then do become more IndoPak..
so BP has the choice; double down on our strength (IndoPak) or try to be more esoteric
Variety I would say. Indo-Pak is just boring pointless point scoring.
Comments are bound to get busy on a Friday evening.
Yup. Plus more Indians will come in as more Indians come on the internet.
good point my sense of day and weekday and travel is totally messed up by travel
Ultimately still perceived as the pagan outsiders, that I think is definitely a part of it.
Thats inherent in Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Islam included and its sects.
Indians in the US have very little sense of community as a whole.
Pandit Brown
a) Have you ever lived in the US, Ever heard of Edison and Jackson Heights?
b) Ever Worked in a Tech Team, specially in Finance ?
Get on to a more “white” forum. H1-B are disliked by middle class “American” tech types.
in Link below read the comments about H-1B
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/09/links-9-20-2025.html.
I have family in Edison. I have spent years in finance tech. What’s your point?
Its one thing to have a hostile perspective, quite another to let bias slip into plain old prejudice. Might want to think about that. Your anti-India emotions are a bit more politely camouflaged than Kabir’s but lately the mask is slipping, and frequently. Just an observation.
I made an observation about the weakness of the Indian diaspora in “influencing”
would be a good post
The Trumpists barely care about democratic values at home, let alone abroad. So there won’t be any lecturing from them.
But, as we have seen recently, the absence of lecturing is not friendly support and tolerance but rather arm-twisting, squeezing, and blackmail.
As our right-wingers have hopefully realized, it’s better to have (in the US Oval Office) a schoolteacher who is generally friendly and well-meaning but occasionally indulges in paternalistic rebukes rather than a mob boss that won’t lecture you but will keep trying to collect hafta from you.
Hope these fools have realized that Trump and MAGA were not the better option for India compared to Democrats just because the New York Times and the Washington Post occasionally wrote editorials critical of Modi.
Yeah I think Modi really did not expect Trump 2.0 to take this hard turn on a trivial Indo-Pak war credit.
To be fair it is very very confusing.
The deep state US (CIA etc) felt far closer to the democrats & there is the perpetual fear within the BJP that the US ‘deep state’ bats for the congress with NYT, WaPo, Economist & meetings with Donald Lu & Rahul etc. Trump was supposed to be ‘cleaner’, but now with the Epstein mess these are very muddy waters.
Modi seems to have completely given up on US reconciliation and is now playing the self reliance card.
I know it all sounds very conspiracy theory, but I think we will see the Indian Govt really try to batten down the hatches and just focus on domestic issues for the next 6 months.
I think Trump is addicted to zigging when zagging is the ‘expected’ move diplomatically. The idea that he can somehow find a way to take credit for a grand bargain in the middle-east, and use the Pakistanis in that process is simply too …tasty for him to ignore. Even if it doesn’t work, he can still get a lot of ‘glory’. That for him is the bigger carrot, not the Ind-Pak ceasefire ‘credit’ IMHO.
This, so much this. The passionate simping for Drumpf and Maga by Indian RW-ers has karmically (comically) come to bite them. Its almost….. satisfying if not for the real economic costs and pain being inflicted on vulnerable Indians.
I mean beyond some photo ops, what has it changed on the ground?
Kashmir’s status remains the same. IWT is in abeyance (big thing which Pakistanis have completely ignored).
Pakistan economy is still in the doldrums. BLA/TTP still rampant.
There is some value in the photo ops, don’t disregard it so easily.
Still, I think the Israel – US – Gaza – Qatar madness has created a very fast moving board.
In some ways it is better not to play this game, we have neither the nimbleness nor the moral flexibility.
Thankfully we stuck it out with the Russians, they sort out the energy issue. India is on the cusp of self sufficiency for everything else. This is an added impetus. Long term all these (Tariffs/H1B/Immigration shutdown) are positives with some short term pain.
yes I agree India should stay out of “Great Games” as it is consolidating
There is a great deal of realism in India about its standing in the world and the power differentials that exist. The smart thing to so is to “hide your strength, bide your time”
yes, but the problem is the shrinking window to bootstrap manufacturing. Sleeping on this during the 2008-2020 years may yet hamstring India’s future. This is a non-trivial risk and requires an emergency ‘all hands on deck’ approach for reform and economic stewardship. And to be honest, while there is some tangible progress its nearly not enough. Yet.
Pakistan has less than half the tariffs that India has – thats not a photo-op, its real economic consequences.
And you simply cannot deny that Pakistan has been given a public let-off from the ‘penalty box’ it found itself in the post BinLaden era. That in itself is a massive W for Pakistan.
You cannot be taken seriously if you’re going to be one-eyed. Objectivity is important.
I would like to apologize for my behaviour on this site, especially when I have resorted to vile insults.
I apologize to anyone who is hurt including @Kabir
This is my last post on this site as I retire, having passed on my mantle to my good friend @Bombay Badshah
Thanks brother.
Happy retirement.
I will carry forward your legacy.
🙂
friends like these..
😢
I’ll work on this post in a bit but I think the Commentariat are look at math more than personality.
Shahbaz, like Imran, is a scion of the Elite is very charming on a personal level
Really? I thought Shahbaz is there precisely because he has no charisma and cannot be the popular leader.
Musharraf, Imran, even Nawaz to some degree came across with the energy and charisma.
Shahbaz tends to wave his hands about and gesticulate wildly. Also terrible suits.
personally charming in private audiences
His willingness to be humble is ….strikingly noticeable given the ‘default’ Pakistani instincts to strut around demanding ‘respect’.
I don’t get the suit and haircut issue. So easily fixable. But the guy I think knows that he is being laughed at, and embraces it, slightly to his advantage at least as far as domestic politics are concerned.
Shahbaz Sharif is PM because:
1) Mian Sahab didn’t want to be PM of a coalition government. He is a three time PM and last time he was in power had a parliamentary majority
2) Shahbaz is a placeholder for Maryam Bibi. She will be the next PM and has great personal charisma.
Makes sense.
Interestingly, Netanyahu’s speech and visual prop and map he held up at one point seemed a review of all the regime changes in the Middle East. “We removed an existential threat to Iran, to Israel, rather, and a mortal threat to the civilized world. We lifted a dark cloud that could have claimed millions and millions of lives. But, ladies and gentlemen, we must remain vigilant,” he said.
Syria was also overthrown, and Lebanon’s Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah assassinated last year
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/netanyahu-touts-regime-change-across-middle-east-un-speech-thanks-america
Nivedita said
Trump may go, but America has shifted permanently to a more insular, xenophobic state.
Not quite xenophobic as in getting rid of potentially a vocal Pro Palestinian population like Ilhan Omar and Zohoran Mamadani (Mira Nair’s son),
There is talk in WhatsApp etc that the anti H-1B is a AIPAC (Zionist) agenda that Trump has been forced to adopt. It is not spoken in US Public because can be labelled Anti Semitic and then get cancelled.
Keep in mind AIPAC controls many in Congress.
Something to put in your pipe, smoke.and think about
Indians abroad (the CEO’s and the other “thought leaders”) are all paper tigers imo. Good followers who do well in
More like they know who is calling the shots, so lying low and keeping quiet
Although Iranian officials in January confirmed that orders had been placed for new Su-35 fighters, which are considerably larger and longer ranged, the possibility remains that the MiG-29 will be procured in greater numbers, with the aircraft having far lower procurement and operational costs which may lead them to be seen as more cost effective.
Also rumors that Iran is buying Chinese J-10C jets.
That should make the Israelis think twice about attacking Iran again.
Despite Israeli and US (Zionist AIPAC) propaganda, Iran is a much more peaceful country compared to Israel.
Since Oct 7th 2023 Confirmed killed: at least 65,549 people, including at least 19,424 children. Injured: at least 167,518 people
See Israel-Gaza war death toll: Live tracker on Al-Jazeera
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iranian-air-force-first-new-russian-fighters-30-years
I’m sympathetic to Iran generally but a bunch of MiG-29s and J-10Cs are not going to stop Israel. I’m pretty sure it will have an opposite impact because Israel will attack with even more fervour.
Iran resists Israeli air attacks only if China directly gets involved. But who knows, maybe China will get involved.
for a successful invasion / attack; you need a 3-1 ratio..
Israel is constantly shooting its shot and turning itself into a global pariah. shocking really
the genocide equivalence
if pahalgam was so profitable to pakistan, what prevents them to have one more go else where?
Pakistan didn’t do Pahalgam but it was the histrionic reaction to it; that actually made Pakistan win.
Life is not only strategy but tactics (which is probably 95% of a victory tbh).
Great Empires have been brought down by guerrilla tactics. I need to expand the posts.
“didn’t do Pahalgam”?
Erm.
was there evidence to suggest that?
it’s a serious question?
fwiw I don’t agree with Pakistan’s foreign policy AT ALL. I would suggest to Pakistan to immediately disclaim any interest to any claims outside it’s current borders and focus on HDI metrics
but again I’m trying to understand where was the evidence to suggest Pahalgam was Pakistan?
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/operation-mahadev-amit-shah-shares-crucial-evidence-linking-recovered-guns-to-pahalgam-attack-8972522
btw this would have gone to spam btw
I’m just saying a thorough investigation that would have further isolated Pakistan. the rational logical approach.. is far preferable
A message from Iran to Israel ??
include the full names, personal details, addresses, and professional links of 189 nuclear and military specialists connected to Israeli weapons programs
addition, there are documents showing official influence exerted by Israeli officials and American senators on the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and their receipt of information about our peaceful nuclear program.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/iran-publishes-alleged-leak-israeli-nuclear-sites-secret-files
Assata Shakur passed away September 25, 2025 (aged 78)
in Havana, Cuba(aged 78)
Listen to Assata, the opposite of Martin Luther Kings message and in very similar intonation and accent. A pleasure to listen
born JoAnne Deborah Byron; July 16, 1947[a] – September 25, 2025) was an American political activist and a member of the Black Liberation Army (BLA). In 1977,
Married Louis Chesimard in 1967; div. 1970
as if not expecting black people to be intelligent and engaged. She said she was taught a sugar-coated version of history that ignored the oppression suffered by people of color, especially in the United States. In her autobiography, she wrote: “I didn’t know what a fool they had made out of me until i grew up and started to read real history.”
====
Even when in Sri Lanka I was into the Black power movement in my early teens
https://web.facebook.com/reel/1464533218101918