Now that the blog has a lease of new life i thought why don’t I join the fray.
Funny that Asim Munir is having lunch with Donald Trump only a day after Trump was having X diarrhoea threatening Iran and its leadership.
What could potentially be the points of discussion one wonders. I have a few wild thoughts.
- Trump is asking for Pakistani help against Iran. Either back-channel negotiations and/or direct intelligence. I am not sure of this one as this seems for a Pro-India cope which sort of makes sense of the ceasefire.
- Pakistan wants to remain the only Nuclear Islamic nation and hence is willing to get into bed with Zionists in Trump towers while giving a middle finger to Ummah.
- The felid marshal wants swip up some Tomahawks to counter Brahmos.
- Trump in all his infinite wisdom is playing at 56D Chess against China via flirting with the felid Marshal and Dumping Modi after a brief fling (or maybe it never was a fling).
- Trump wants to learn some catty dictatorship from the felid Marshal for the 3rd term.
Ironically Modi declined US invitation which seems to be related to either claimed US mediation into Op Sindoor or Israel Iran war.
Finally Sorry Amey and Poulasta but the podcast episode on OP Sindoor was terrible. Cant have a podcast where Omar’s wisdom is interrupted as frequently as that with all the rants and interruptions.
I hope to write a longish post from India POV about Op Sindoor and the future as soon as i get some brainspace.
Be civil in comments.ย
The Indian press is reporting that Asif Munir indicated that Pakistan would be nominating Trump for a Nobel peace prize and thereby received a lunch invitation.
Given that Trump was supposed to be in G7 it does seem to have been a very impromptu fortuitous meeting for FM Munir. It looks like Trump also tried to call Modi over to get a photo op and burnish his statesman credentials.
As to what they talked about, who knows with Trump, typically he tends to make it about himself. Here is a clip of a supposed secret meeting of Musharraf with State dept officials laying out his demands.
https://x.com/desishitposterr/status/1935258123180327009
Not 100% relevant here as Munir doesn’t have to win an election, but I think keeping Imran Khan in jail is a common interest to both. Mostly the lunch, like the flag poles is just a meaningless show while all eyes are on him.
Opposition to the Iran war is spiking with open revolt within the MAGA party, it feels like Trump has lost the window to pull the trigger. It is also being made quite clear to the American public that Trump is being led by the nose by Nethanyahu.
Iran I feel has longer staying power in this than Israel, the delay works heavily in their favour. Can reorganize and resist better with each passing hour.
it seems that way..
Turns out it is true. Nobel peace prize nomination was the price of a lunch.
https://trt.global/world/article/6b39f5f7eebb
And now …. On the back of the nomination…. the campaign starts.
https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1936182477565079940
Meanwhile Ishaq dar is on geo tv attributing the ceasefire negotiation to prince Faisal
https://x.com/VibeXavier/status/1936197375267397807
All those degrees in political science, philosophy, morality, ethics, aren’t worth the paper they are printed on with these champs ripping aside the veil of civility and exposing the ugly realpoltik of our world.
Point number 2 crossed my mind for sure. And thank you for voicing what I wanted to on that podcast with Omar Ali. The interruption was super annoying! I stopped listening after 20 minutes.
I need to synopsise the rest of it.
Sry can I influence you to leave that be. I too found it rather a poor podcast, seemingly done when tempers were flared and the desire to rant overwhelmed the need to rationally discuss.
Sure
This was the first occasion when a Pakistani army chief has been formally received by a US President. Musharraf and Ayub only met US presidents when they held the office of President of Pakistan.
This is being seen as a big deal in Pakistan. The Indian delegation only met JD Vance while our guy got to meet Trump himself.
According to DAWN, Trump said he was honored to meet the Field Marshal and thanked him for not getting into a war with India:
When questioned about the meeting in an interaction with the media, Trump said, โI was honored to meet him (Field Marshal Munir) today.
โHe (Field Marshal Munir) agreed with me. The reason I had him here was that I wanted to thank him for not going into the war [with India]. And I want to thank PM [Narendra] Modi as well, who just left a few days ago,โ he added.
โWeโre working on a trade deal with India and Pakistan. These two very smart people decided not to keep going with a war that could have been a nuclear war. Pakistan and India are two big nuclear powers.โ
https://www.dawn.com/news/1918093/trump-coas-munir-talk-counterterrorism-and-trade-in-cordial-meeting-ispr
Ironically, Modi had a phone call with Trump in which he pushed back on the narrative that the US mediated the India Pakistan ceasefire. Trump doesn’t seem to care.
I don’t think Trump really cares one way or the other about Imran Khan. Imran is pretty much irrelevant these days despite the hopes of the pro PTI people. The US knows that the real power in Pakistan is the Pakistan Army and that’s why Trump is dealing with the field marshal and not with Shahbaz Sharif.
I don’t know if Trump asked for Pakistan’s help in the Iran war. I don’t think Pakistan Army would want to help the US in any way on this since it would be deeply unpopular in Pakistan. Israel is our enemy and Iran is a brotherly Muslim country. Don’t forget that Pakistan has the largest Shia population outside of Iran.
But how would it get out that Pak Army helped Israel? I don’t mean they would or wouldn’t but they could easily do as Arab states have been doing with Israel for years now.
did your posting work btw?
Pakistan has no diplomatic relations with Israel. Pakistani passports explicitly say that they are valid for all countries in the world except Israel.
Why would Pakistan help Israel in this case? Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza and has now attacked Iran, a country which borders Pakistan. Around 20% of Pakistani Muslims are Shia. I really don’t see what we would gain by not siding with Iran.
Of course, enough American pressure can accomplish all sorts of things. But this is not something that the Pakistan Army would want to get involved with.
And Armenia
Armenia supports who now? Azerbaijan is pro-Pakistan I think?
Armenia & Iran are very close
Pakistan, Azerbaijan and Turkey..
I think Kabir is right..
But the Pak defence minister walked back on the claim (made by the Iranian general) that Pak would nuke Israel if Israel nuked Iran?
Not seen any other Muslim country come to the overt support of Iran ironically.
I think it’s wait and see?
I think Turkey has been pretty supportive of Iran?
Words not deeds though
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/who-is-indias-all-weather-friend-in-this-world
This article seems relevant here. “Who is India’s All-Weather Friend in This World?” by Christophe Jaffrelot
Worth writing on this?
Should you have an all weather friend? It is precisely because Israel has an all weather friend that it commits atrocities with impunity.
The bigger state just enables the smaller state towards reckless maneuvering spawning war after war.
WW1 was started because the Austrians had a German all weather friend and the Serbians had a Russian all weather friend. Then everyone called up their pacts and jumped in.
The wire is always ready to publish anything that makes India look bad, zero thought around the logic of what they are advocating.
The article is about the differences between a transactional foreign policy and one based on alliances.
Christophe Jaffrelot is a major scholar on South Asia. You need to stop focusing on where something is published and focus on the expertise of the person making the argument.
I tend focus on what is being said and countering it with an argument rather than who is saying it. Experts are often very biased and can collude to throw out misleading narratives (covid origins).
Transactional foreign policy is not a bad thing. China is a much preferred partner in Africa as it does not try to impose a value system.
“The Wire is always ready to publish anything that makes India look bad”– Dismissing the platform where something is published is not focusing on what is being said.
I have read the article and given a counter argument. Historically I really would like to find an instance when an “all weather friendship” is not abused.
UK troops died in Afghan and Iraq wars due to their “friendship”.
Japanese girls are raped in Okinawa, the soldiers are never tried in Japanese courts for a civil criminal offence due to theirs.
Multiple instances of American diplomats/military personnel fleeing accidents in UK/Japan and not facing jail time – Hit and Run with impunity.
Israels multiple atrocities, middle east domination, Palestinian genocide, 75 year targeted assassination program of hundreds of people, this Iran war, are all perpetrated with the complete support of their “all weather friend”.
These are just off the top of my head. The list is endless.
I don’t know how well versed you are in the Mahabharat but Karna (in most versions) is considered to be perfect in every way, loyal, generous to a fault, humble, skilled, honourable. His only fault is that he stands by Dhuryodhana as an all weather friend and enables his deviation from dharma.
The wire is biased, I have argued this before but never dismissed any of their articles without an argument for why it is so. The logic of posting articles and expect them to be unchallenged just due to the academic qualifications of the writer is not one i subscribe to.
There is no news platform that doesn’t have a bias or an ideology.
We get it that you don’t like “The Wire” because it is left-wing and anti the Modi government. You do realize you sound like the conservative Americans who constantly dump on The New York Times (which frankly in the American context is the newspaper of record).
If you don’t like left-wing sources you are free to post from more right-wing ones.
Focus on the argument. You just concentrate on my judgement of the source while happily ignoring all the examples, the surveys, the papers that I quote. I don’t like to label myself or anyone else without justification, data and history are my guides.
Consistent bias will be called out, the wire does have some good reporting too, it is a pity you don’t bother posting any of those articles.
Frankly your “judgement of the source” is getting pretty annoying.
It is not good argumentation to constantly say “Oh this was in The Wire”. It’s exactly like MAGA going “Oh but NYT!”
I’m going to leave this here. It’s obvious to me we don’t understand each other. I’m very much on the center-left and you seem to be on the other side.
what’s this royal ‘we’ all about? Calling out the wire for its horrendously overt bias seems to trigger you. Not sure why that is.
Every news source has a bias of some kind. Your issue with “The Wire” is that you don’t approve of their ideology. That’s fine but it’s your personal problem. This is not good argumentation.
Wire, Jaffrelot both highly biased and anti-India.
Sorry this is just bad argumentation. If I started dismissing news sources as “anti-Pakistan”, you would call me out on that no?
I always read articles independent of the source. Unfortunately, Jaffrelot’s articles have become more contrived rather than coming from a place of genuine academic rigour ( seen this pattern over time). The same can be said of the NY times frankly.
Agree with xperia’s cogent explanation on the biasedness issue; nothing for me to add.
Even as a staunch Indian nationalist, I do see stuff that I would call anti-Pakistan in some articles; I dismiss those too. I can’t stand contrived nonsense either way.
You will have to be more precise in your definition of “anti-India”. “The Wire” is certainly anti the Modi government. But to call that anti-India is a stretch. Only about 30% of voters voted for the BJP. Presumably the people who vote for Congress etc are not anti-India according to you?
This would be like me deciding that any opinion which is anti Pakistan Army is therefore anti-Pakistan. I don’t share this position but many Pakistanis do. I would call them out on their bad argumentation as well.
Indian equivalent of Tomahawk is Nirbhay. Pakistan already has equivalents of Brahmos in C602, YJ 12 (CM 302). PNS Ahsan in Ormara, which operates the Pakistani Brahmos, has radars on a 1600 ft hill right next to ocean, and is the most formidable naval bastion from Suez to Hainan. IN will sail to die on that hill.
Brahmos warhead is pretty small and the missile is grossly over-rated in terms of bang for buck. Americans don’t make an equivalent because such an expensive weapon does not make sense. They either establish ‘dominance’ in other ways and then pound the enemy with cheaper stuff. Everyone else who is incapable of enforcing SEAD/DEAD the American way, from Japan to Taiwan to Pakistan, already has an equivalent of Brahmos. Indians stupidly overuse Brahmos in so many possible Jugaad ways. Bholari and others could have been blown up a lot more cheaply, probably Indians were using up the stock that was going to expire.
In anti ship roles too Brahmos and it’s equivalents fly higher than Tomahawk (or Nirbhay or Pakistani equivalents) and therefore gets detected earlier. Brahmos worship is silly.
Great comment
Worship or over reliance of any one weapons system is always silly. What works in one engagement is inevitably countered in the next.
That said, the Brahmos is a cruise missile and therefore operable at different heights. I don’t see why it should fly higher when the flight path is adjustable down to 10 meters and has launch range outside radar detection.
Pakistan made a big thing of hitting S400 in their Bunian op (quite a bold faced lie). But as can be seen with Iran, the S400\300 air defence is just one layer in a comprehensive air defence system.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/16/borders-closing-and-airspaces-shut-as-israel-iran-conflict-rages
Pakistani politicians will make all kinds of statements supporting Israel in public as their awam has been fed a daily drip of hate against it.
The actions are very different.
Likewise all the Jinnah being shia (the supreme court ruled he was definitely not shia 30 years after his death just so everyone could feel a little better about it), Bhutto being shia is just misleading dross, the reporting on sectarian violence in Pakistan is very different. There are just too many links to paste, but overall similar numbers of Shias are killed in Pakistan as Hindu Muslim communal deaths combined in India.
*supporting Iran in public, hate against Israel
Yes, there is sectarian violence against the Shia. But this is not the State’s policy.
Many of us are from mixed Shia Sunni families. In most cases this is not an issue.
Nice to have your assurance about it.
Normally at this point I would post a survey for you to ignore but it looks like this lady has written an excellent paper on it.
https://journal.ipripak.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Article-7-IPRI-Journal-XXI-2-Maheen-Ahmed.pdf
Also, from a favoured publication arguing for the effectiveness of paying heed to the survey data.
https://www.dawn.com/news/742373/who-gets-to-be-a-muslim-in-pakistan
Surveys are fine. In this case, lived experience counts for more.
Shia and Sunni intermarry. This is really not an issue for most people.
The sectarian violence occurs because Iran and Saudi Arabia have each been conducting a proxy war against each other on Pakistani soil.
you are so quick to defend, justify, normalize sectarian issues in Pakistan, and yet when others point out that the Indian constitution is secular, you resort to repeating BJP/RSS/Hindutva = Nazis. Massive blind spot for a self-professed “centre-left” academic.
What exactly am I normalizing or justifying? All I pointed out was that Shia and Sunni intermarry. Yes, there is sectarian violence (and I’m not going to justify that) but it is not a concerted policy of the Pakistani State.
The RSS was inspired by European fascism. This is not a controversial fact except maybe in your own mind. Perhaps you need to introspect about your own blind spots?
are you asserting that the RSS as it exists and operates today, aspires to ‘fascism’?
I was very clear in what I wrote. The founders of the RSS were inspired by Mussolini and Hitler.
I don’t want to re-litigate this. Before asking others to introspect about their “blind spots”, you should examine your own.
lame attempt to dodge a very specific question asked. Thanks for making my point for me. You have a blind spot when it comes to India, and so-called “hindutva”. And are happy to hurl propaganda talking points.
“so-called Hindutva”– So now you’re denying that Hindutva (or Hindu Nationalism or whatever you want to call it) is a thing?
You can call me whatever you want. I don’t care. I can call you Anti-Pakistan. I’m sure that doesn’t bother you.
This conversation is pointless. So I’m not going to be responding to you further.
wait wot? where am I denying anything? you are just trying to shift goalposts. And badly at that.
Cling on to that frog in the well perspective with massive blind spots, while telling yourself you are “centre left”. Whatever floats your boat.
You used the adjective “so-called” before Hindutva. The implication was that you don’t believe Hindutva is real.
It’s nice that you’re obsessed with calling out my blind spots. Clearly you have some “massive” ones of your own.
This is really getting very boring now. I guess you haven’t studied the humanities because your grasp of argumentation is quite weak.
still dodging the base question – are you asserting that present-day RSS is a ‘fascist’ organization?
Finger-pointing and ad hominem attacks really aren’t doing much to bolster your ‘centre-left’ claims. More like Hard Right.
Besides, its funny to watch you try and bully your way around a simple discussion. ‘oh I’m from a rich family’. ‘oh you haven’t studied humanities’. you may think its showing ‘strength’, but its more like flailing desperation when your biased assumptions are called out. Such “Tu jaanta nahi main kaun hoon” Baqwaas may be effective in closed echo chambers. Not in an open free space ๐
For the record, I only brought up my family background when I was being trolled by someone who told me that I wear shalwars and ride around on a motorbike. I’d sooner not bring up my family again.
You’ll have to point out where I ever labeled the RSS “fascist”. It may or may not be “fascist” (I’m not getting into that) but it is certainly a Hindu Nationalist organization that is against the Nehruvian Secular values of India’s constitution.
One of the foremost scholars studying this subject is Thomas Blom Hansen (Reliance-Dhirubhai Ambani Professor at Stanford University). His book The Saffron Wave: Democracy and Hindu Nationalism in Modern India “explores the larger phenomenon of Hindu nationalism in the light of the dynamics of India’s democratic experience”
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/001946460103800309
I guess you’ll now dismiss Professor Hansen as being biased. But you can’t say I didn’t try.
r s s was formed in 1925, so no hitler, mussolini inspiration. it certainly had inspirations from european movements probably garibaldi’s brown shirts(?)
Which is why you guys got pummeled soundly by the Brahmos, eh? Keep pretending otherwise, suits us just fine. Quereshi by another nom plume?
๐ I thought so too (Quereshi).
๐ I ran that comment through chatgpt after providing it samples for control.
his new sample is highly likely (85โ95%) to be written by the same author as the previous five.
Differences:
But the core fingerprints โ tone, sarcasm, critical posture, writing rhythm, sociopolitical bent โ are strikingly consistent. If not the same person, it would have to be someone intentionally imitating their voice with some domain-specific variation.
Would you like a consolidated linguistic profile of this author? Or compare this to other new samples?
๐ AI. Gonna take over everything soon.
oh my I had no idea he was Qureshi as it’s a different IP..
Chatgpt can be used to disguise writing too.
Next time I guess.
Nice detective work ๐ Though both of us independently, seem to have auto-deduced that more likely than not, it was Qureshi. Even the name, a total giveaway. Qureshi likes KK songs perhaps? ๐คทโโ๏ธ
One of the better articles I’ve read on the Munir Trump meeting:
https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/it-was-the-best-of-times-it-was-the-worst-of-times-for-pakistan-8707719?pfrom=home-ndtv_premium
This is DAWN’s editorial today. https://www.dawn.com/news/1918330/power-lunch
The operative paragraphs are:
“The Iran-Israel situation also came under discussion between Mr Trump and the field marshal. The significance of this is considerable, as Pakistan is a neighbour of Iran, while it also shares decades-old military ties with the US. Whatever decision Mr Trump takes vis-ร -vis Iran โ and it is certainly hoped that he decides not to join Israelโs reckless war on Tehran โ the civilian and military leadership here must keep in mind Pakistanโs position on the conflict.
Pakistanโs parliament has passed a unanimous resolution condemning Israeli aggression against Iran, and expressing solidarity with our western neighbour. Political parties and civil society here are also opposed to Tel Avivโs military action against Iran. Therefore, however things develop on the battlefield, Pakistan must maintain this position, and stand by its neighbouring state.”
to what extent will Pakistan standby..
Pretty sure Pakistan will covertly support an American invasion if needed.
Look at what they do, not what they say.
It would be extremely hard for Pak Army to sell action against Iran to the Pakistani people.
On the other hand, maybe not actively supporting Iran counts as helping the US and Israel?