This is a genocide every which way but I would be interested to hear the views of the commentariat.
I am very pro Zionist for what it’s worth.
I’ll explained my thoughts later on in a proper post, but I am interested to see RW Indians reflect on Gaza.
So if I comment here, does that mean I consider myself Right Wing?
It’s a strange feeling, I always thought of myself with left wing sympathies, probably time to burn that copy of the motorcycle diaries.
Anyway to list the problems in Gaza, that it is a genocide is a given, in order of blame for it.
People always want to start with October 7, 2023 as if the events on that day occurred in a vacuum (Note: I am not defending those events at all). Gaza was an open air prison long before October 7, 2023. Zionists argue that they unilaterally “disengaged” from Gaza in 2005. Yet, according to International Law Gaza remained occupied. If an entity’s borders, airspace etc is controlled by another entity, the latter entity remains the Occupier. I remember protesting for Gaza in 2009, 2014 etc. However, the situation just seems to get worse and there doesn’t seem to be a way out.
In my opinion (and that of an increasing number of people around the world especially young people), Zionism is simply settler-colonialism. It has been clear for decades and should be crystal clear now that Israel’s leadership has no intention of ever allowing a Palestinian state. On the contrary, they are even now floating maps of “Greater Israel” that even include parts of Saudi Arabia.
Israel is being enabled by the US. I remember growing up in the DC suburbs, there was literally no sympathy for Palestinian suffering. The Zionist narrative was the default. I only got an alternate version because my parents were Pakistani and of course they had read Edward Said. But of course now, students in the US are increasingly aware that Israel is the root of the problem.
I wasn’t saying you were RW – just that the broad commentariat tend to skew that way. Sorry I do need to expand on the post
I was just prodding at the clumsy phrasing. FWIW I would claim to be a rationalist eschewing wing labelling. A nationalist rationalist? Self labels do have only limited value though, and the fences move so fast nowadays.
The Jewish claims to Palestine are based on fables from the Bible,
Judaisim, Christianity and Islam are nasty Patriarchal blood thirsty religions from the same source, the Genocidal God of Abraham
Some verses
1 Samuel 15:3 **
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Zephaniah 2:4-7For Gaza shall be destroyed, and Ascalon shall be a desert, they shall cast out Azotus at noonday, and Accaron shall be rooted up.
1 Timothy 2
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
**Netanyahu used this verse to justify murdering Palestinians.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu justified the killing of Gaza residents
..
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-cites-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings/articleshow/104802548.cms
The Jewish claims to Palestine are based on fables from the Bible,
Judaisim, Christianity and Islam are nasty Patriarchal blood thirsty religions from the same source, the Genocidal God of Abraham
Some verses
1 Samuel 15:3 **
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Zephaniah 2:4-7For Gaza shall be destroyed, and Ascalon shall be a desert, they shall cast out Azotus at noonday, and Accaron shall be rooted up.
1 Timothy 2
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
**Netanyahu used this verse to justify murdering Palestinians.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu justified the killing of Gaza residents
Maybe I’m just cynical, but the conflict industry will never let this be resolved.
Not just the conflict industry, the religious dogma.
The Land Chosen by God for Gods Chosen People
However, if the US support for Israel ends specially funding, that will be the end of the Ethno Religious Jewish State
Religion is used as an excuse (as it often is). The real issue is European colonialism. Israel is one of the (if not the) last colonial states in existence.
Equating Netanyahu and Hamas is not correct. Israel is a nuclear power. Hamas has nothing.
No Israeli government (even the supposedly left-wing ones) was ever serious about a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.
I think any analysis should always start with how terrible both Hamas & the PLO was.
The mistakes the Arab states made in not accommodating a Jewish state in the beginning with the 1947 plan.
I disagree with you profoundly. The British had absolutely no right to create a “national home” for Jews at the expense of the natives of the land–Palestinian Muslims and Christians.
The Palestinians did not accept the partition of their land. Would you accept someone coming from outside and demanding half your home? I would certainly make sure that that person never tried that again.
The contrast with the Partition of British India is relevant here: British India’s Muslims were native to the land (unlike European Jews). And our Partition was negotiated between the Muslim League, the Indian National Congress and the colonial power. It was still a horrible botched mess.
“Hamas” is a creation of Israel. This is part of the historical record.
All that said, the Palestinians had accepted the two state solution. I would say it was very generous of them to settle for only part of their land rather than demand all of it returned to them. But Israel’s intransigence and Jewish settlements in the West Bank have now made that solution a non-starter. Eventually there will have to be one democratic state between the river and the sea. Of course, this state will not be “Jewish”.
I disagree with you profoundly. The British had absolutely no right to create a “national home” for Jews at the expense of the natives of the land–Palestinian Muslims and Christians.
It’s true that the modern borders of these states were decided by the British and French. But the situations are not the same. Palestine was the only one of these states which was settled by outsiders who decided that they wanted to take over the land at the expense of the natives. Jordan belongs to the Jordanians, Iraq belongs to the Iraqis etc. In the same way Palestine belongs to Palestinians.
but their rulers were planted!!! from meccan islamic eilte family.
Please XTM
The biggest mistake was for Britain to create a Israeli State in Palestine.
What was the justification, some fables in the Genocidal Bible
I don’t think you need to single out the Bible (in this case you mean the Torah) as being particularly “genocidal”. All religions have violent parts.
But I absolutely agree with you that Britain had no right to create a Jewish “national home” on Arab land.
The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The Torah is also known as the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses
Yes. I am aware of that. The Torah is also called the “Old Testament”.
I don’t think the issue here is really religion. It’s colonialism. Europeans had their so-called “Jewish problem” and thought they could off-load the Jews onto the Arabs. The Arabs obviously wanted none of that. Why was it their problem that Jews were persecuted in Europe? The Arabs were not the ones persecuting them. And obviously no one takes kindly to someone coming from outside and claiming one’s home.
Here we are today where “Israel” is the last outpost of the West in the Arab Middle East.
I accept that “Israel” is here to stay. No one can send the Jews back to Europe. But they do need to go back behind their internationally recognized border (The Green Line). They have no business in the West Bank, Gaza or East Jerusalem.
_No one can send the Jews back to Europe_
Economics will cause the educated to leave.
One of the most important ideas was Israel was same because of the dome. That has been proved false in the recent war with Iran which Israel started.
so a few points
a) Who is going to fund the technology centers destroyed by Iran (eg Weizmann Institute and Microsoft ? campus),
b) Will other businesses feel safe investing money in Israel at eternal war with its neighbors
c) Will Boycott, Divesy, Sanctions (BDS) increase. Essentially strangling Israeli economy
The economic fallout will become apparent in a year or two
To clarify my point: I don’t believe that Israelis can be made to disappear. They can’t be “thrown in the sea” which is a Zionist talking point. The creation of their country was unjust but it exists now and we have to deal with it.
There are only two moral solutions (the third solution is the status quo of genocide and apartheid): 1) Israel withdraws behind its internationally recognized borders (pre June 1967) and allows a Palestinian Arab state in the West Bank and Gaza with its capital in East Jerusalem.
2) A secular democratic state between the river and the sea. Obviously this state would no longer privilege Jews.
1) Israel withdraws behind its internationally recognized borders (pre June 1967) and allows a Palestinian Arab state in the West Bank and Gaza with its capital in East Jerusalem.
two points need clarification:
i) what happens to the first nabka ‘victims’ ? right of return goes?
ii) will jews be allowed to live in a palestine arab state. is it secular?
iii) what is preventing west bank officials to take control of gaza today?
Hamas won elections?
Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.
In June 2006 Israel launched a series of raids into Gaza and the West Bank. Israel destroyed civilian infrastructure and arrested dozens of Hamas supporters, including elected cabinet ministers and members of the PLC. On 28 June overnight, the army invaded Gaza and performed airstrikes, bombing infrastructure such as bridges and an electricity station.
XTM you have drunk deeply of the Zionist Propaganda and keep on Parroting the Talking Points
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
Yes. I am aware of that. The Torah is also called the “Old Testament”.
The Torah is PART of the Old Testament. Five Book
The Old Testament books varies by Christian denomination; Protestants have 39, Roman Catholics have 46, and Orthodox churches have even more, while the Hebrew Bible contains 24 books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament
Freerice.com lets you donate food via the UN World Food Program. Please help the starving people of Gaza.
Do they also mention how much of that food gets through to people in Gaza?
This is a really good interview with an Israel-based American political theorist. I don’t agree with all of it but it is certainly interesting.
https://thepointmag.substack.com/p/the-lefts-violence-problem
“The Truth About Gaza: 2005-2023” by Todd Hasak-Lowy
https://toddhasaklowy.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-gaza-2005-2023