Second Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal is an Indian Army legend. A National Defense Academy (NDA) and Indian Military Academy (IMA) alum, Khetarpal was commissioned into Indian Army’s armoured regiment, Poona Horse and won India’s highest gallantry award the Paramvir Chakra, posthumously, for his heroism in the 1971 India-Pakistan war. Sriram Raghavan’s Ikkis is an autobiographical account of Arun’s life and the Battle of Basantar. A battle where Khetarpal’s Centurion tank took on the Pakistan army’s Patton tanks and fought valiantly before he succumbed to injuries on the battlefield. The movie stars Agastya Nanda, grandson of Amitabh Bachchan, as Arun Khetarpal with Dharmendra and Jaideep Ahlawat. The former plays the role of Brigadier Madan Lal Khetarpal, Arun’s father and the latter plays the role of Brigadier Nisar of the Pakistan army.
The movie recounts the visit of Brigadier Khetarpal, in 2001, to Lahore where he is hosted by Brigadier Nisar of the Pakistan Army. The senior Khetarpal is visiting Lahore for his college reunion and to visit Sargodha from where his family had to migrate in the aftermath of India’s partition in 1947. This story track runs in parallel to the story of Arun’s days at the NDA, IMA, days leading up to the battle and the battle itself. The senior Khetarpal, now in his eighties is all dewy eyed for his roots and the younger one, who has turned 21 (Ikkis is the word for the number 21 in Hindi) is eager and keen to prove his mantle on the battlefield. The retired Brigadier is serenaded by everyone, by his hosts, his former classmates and the family that now lives in his ancestral house. The young second lieutenant is learning the brutal nature of combat and the human cost of war as he rolls on towards Basantar. The dramatic arc of the movie ends with Brigadier Nisar telling the elder Khetarpal that he was the commanding officer of the Patton that shot the lieutenant’s tank and it was his assault that proved fatal.
I am a big Sriram Raghavan fan. His Johnny Gaddar makes it to every list of top 10 Hindi movies that I have ever made. Raghavan has the knack of writing stories and characters that are unconventional for commercial Hindi cinema, his plot twists don’t disappoint and nobody uses songs from Hindi movies of the 1950s, ’60s & ’70s like Raghavan. He eschews over the top dramatics and gets his actors to deliver pitch perfect performances.
Ikkis is handicapped by the fact that it is autobiographical. Raghavan has limited scope for crafting a story that surprises. This is his attempt at making a war movie and the stories of the two Khetarpals is a prop. He wants us to see that Indians and Pakistanis are the same people, there are no winners in a war, soldiers are common folk who pay with their lives for the idea of nationhood, there is common humanity that binds us all and the Pakistan army, just like the Indian army, is a professional force doing what is necessary. He uses all the tropes to make these points. Scenes of the elder Khetarpal with Brigadier Nisar’s family, his former classmates, the joyous outdoor dinner organized by the occupants of his ancestral home, the bullets ridden, lacerated bodies of soldiers and the depiction of Brigadier Nisar as an honorable gentleman who represents the best of Pakistan army.
Raghavan is let down by the performances and the writing. Young Nanda is earnest and energetic but needs to hone his skills. Dharmendra is a bona-fide legend of Hindi cinema and this his last movie. Age had really caught up with our beloved Dharam Paaji by the time this role came around. Ahlawat does the heavy lifting, it is a measured performance and he is let down by a unidimensional character. A Raghavan movie with not one song that stays with you, well here is a first. In the end I was neither invested in the characters nor was I numbed by horrors of war.
I did take away the stereotypical take on India and Pakistan that Hindi cinema is mostly known for- India and Pakistan are the same. Raghavan adds to this mix the professionalism and humanity of the Pakistan army. Ikkis was released within a month of another Hindi movie Dhurandhar. Dhurnadhar takes a wrecking ball to this stereotype and the image of Pakistan’s armed forces and then does some more. In India Ikkis, by a section of the media, was considered an antidote to Dhurandhar’s ‘jingoism’. Dhurandhar we were told is the ruling government’s attempt to spread an insidious agenda and paint Pakistan as enemy. Ikkis, we were told, paints a more nuanced, realistic picture and brings out the horrors of war. Dhurandhar we were told is state propaganda and Ikkis is what art is meant to be.
If Ikkis is not meant to make a political point/ is not propaganda then I have a Mughal monument south of Delhi to sell you. Cinema in India has always been a propaganda tool. From Do Beegha Zameen to Home Bound. Its leading lights have never shied away from using it to communicate an ideology. Here’s the great Utpal Dutt making my case.
Yes, he is talking of theater but you can easily replace theater with cinema. The leading lights of Hindi cinema in the years after independence were members of India People’s Theater Association (IPTA). Here is the wikipedia entry on IPTA
What is Pakistan and what is its army like ?
Pakistan was created in 1947 when the British ended their colonial rule over the sub-continent and split on religious lines. It is a culmination of Muslim League’s campaign for a separate Muslim nation. The league and its supporters considered Hindus and Muslims incapable of living together in harmony. It is a well thought out idea of a nation for Muslims. Here are links to two podcasts that will tell you more about the idea of Pakistan.
Omar Ali on Pakistan Myths and Realities
The founders of Pakistan and those who have followed them have kept their word. Non-Muslims cannot hold top constitutional positions. Religious minorities make up for less than 5% of Pakistan’s population and the non Islamic parts of its history are absent from its cultural milieu. It has a blasphemy law on its statutes and in a 2010 Pew Poll 87% Pakistanis identify as “Muslims First” over nationality.
The highest amongst surveyed Muslim countries. Its 1973 constitution declares Islam as state religion. Pakistan is and for Islam. Pakistan frames its identity against ‘Hindu India’. Individual acts of graciousness that one may have encountered or heard of, do not change this reality.
Pakistan’s army is its foremost institution. Its outsized role in running the country is well documented. The saying- Pakistan is an army with a country attached to it exists for sound reasons. What was this army up to weeks and months before Brigadier Nasir’s exchange with Lieutenant Khetarpal? It was slaughtering Bengali Hindus in East Pakistan. Pick up this book, it is essential reading on Pakistan army.
Next time you hear the dialogue “Kaun Dushman” spare a thought for parents of Captain Saurabh Kalia
The motto of the Pakistan army is Faith, Piety, and Fighting in the way of Allah. Its role in fomenting Jihad in Kashmir and birthing and nurturing the Taliban is well documented. An individual officer’s behaviour is not what the institution stands for. Here is its chief laying out its vision and its core ideology.
It is the gap between the reality of India and Pakistan and what its army stands for that makes Ikkis a failed propaganda tool. In the age of social media, it is impossible to hide the truth and talk of Aman ki Asha. Raghavan is not helped by the caricaturesque nature of other characters in the movie and the mediocre performances of actors portraying those characters. Shri Raghavan if you want to make a war movie, don’t let your politics overshadow it. Just give us its brutality and futility. If you want us to join the Aman ki Asha write a more believable story.
If you want us to believe India and Pakistan are the same, do pass on whatever you are smoking.
only shombit patra can be a true replacement for utpal dutta.
>’Ikkis’ asked ‘Kaun Dushman?’ wrt Pakistan
>Sank without a trace on the box office
>No Pakistani is watching its pirated versions
>’Dhurandhar’ showed middle finger to Aman ka Tamasha
>Plethora of Insta Reelz of Pakjabis doing nautch to its songs
>Trends No 1 on Netflix in Pak
Chagnonpill is eternal.
BB, we don’t understand why you bear such animosity to Pakistan.
We haven’t amended your comment this time but if Q or K were to write in this manner about India, they would be edited out.
Your point has some validity (maybe South Asians like the rivalry etc) but “Pakjabi” are just cheap shots
Not justifying BB’s language – I do hope we can maintain this as a refuge of cordial, high signal conversation among all desis but anyone who lives in India and isn’t an Islamist or self-serving leftist has nothing but extreme dislike for Pakistan. It is only natural. 70 years of extending the olive branch have taught us some very hard lessons.
To illustrate the point – something interesting happened on Indian X the last few days. A lot of Congress aligned public intellectuals were panning Dhurandhar 2 for peddling propaganda etc – the usual tropes.
People then started looking up UPA era tweets from news outlets to find some truly appalling stuff – we had India’s home minister justify bombings on the grounds that handing Kasab had upset (Pakistani?/Indian Muslim?) feelings.
I deeply dislike the BJP but having seen the UPA as young adult, it is hard not to feel a burning rage against anyone who told us to take things lying down and to those have perpetrated horrors against us with impunity for decades.
Sikhs, Indian Muslims & mid-caste Tamils (who have Dravidian ideology) definitely do not share in this dislike .
I suspect neither does Christians or Parsis for that. Of course everyone knows what is required to blend into society (the visible animus towards Pakistan & the invisible one towards “bad Muslims”). The Pakistan phobia is a particularly localised phenomenon.
This is like when PM Modi made his trip to Israel; the subtext was all too clear at who it was aimed at.
The UAE & Saudi are being exposed right now. UAE in particular ..
Khalistanis propped up by Pakistan and British interests do not represent Indian Sikhs. We’ve lost enough Sikhs in India to Pakistani hands that the common feeling is not one of affection by any remote stretch of imagination.
It is the greatest misfortune of our democratic system that certain interest groups will always support Pakistan but that’s ok. Even Bangladesh has a significant percentage that is now pro-Pakistan due to the Jamaat’s efforts but that doesn’t mean the average Bangladeshi has forgotten what the Punjabis did to them. Most reasonable people know who the primary enemy is – and it is not the current Indian govt. The Indian Muslim, of course, is a different issue altogether that we can write reams about.
Yes Khalistan is entirely propped up by Pakistan.
This is not a serious analysis whatsoever.
Indians are entitled to feel whatever they want about Pakistan. Many (if not most) Pakistanis also have “extreme dislike” for India. The enmity goes both ways.
Pakistanis see India as a hostile state which has never wanted Pakistan to succeed. This goes back to the very beginning. We were denied our share of British India’s finances until Mahatma Gandhi went on hunger strike.
As I already mentioned, India broke Pakistan in 1971. That’s not something we will get over any time soon.
If Indians have a list of grievances against Pakistanis, we also have a list of grievances against India.
Our security establishment tells us that India is sponsoring BLA and TTP. Indians of course deny this.
But your claim that anyone who isn’t an “Islamist” or a “self-serving leftist” dislikes Pakistan lacks nuance. First of all, people use the world “Islamist” way too loosely. An “Islamist” is someone who advocates for Sharia law. That is the meaning of the word.
I have Indian friends who don’t fall in either of your categories. One of them is a professor of History in the US. His family has roots in what is now Pakistan and he has deep love for those roots. His PhD thesis was on Partition (specifically Evacuee Property).
I have deep love for my paternal grandmother’s roots in Agra. That doesn’t mean I like the Republic of India.
Yes the way everyone is trying justify BB’s behaviour is annoying.
Yes he has valid reasons to hate Pakistan; everyone has valid reasons to hate. The point is not to hate.
Indians can certainly have issues with Pakistan’s policies. Pakistanis certainly have issues with India’s policies
I think that there is something else going on though. A lot of Indians just cannot psychologically deal with the fact that their neighbor to the northwest is a strong and self-respecting Muslim-majority country.
Whether we like it or not, these two nations despise each other. They always have. It’s almost like Israel and Palestine–except in this case both parties are sovereign nuclear-armed nations.
But one should be able to separate a country’s government from individual people.
BB’s problem is that he gets personal.
Anyway let it be now- we were just issuing a directive that Pakjabi is an insulting term.
BB needs to also stop being vitriolic about Pakistan now, not just you.
It lowers the tone; there is a different standard expected from Authors & Established Commentators.
Don’t come to the Comment Threads & essentially spew hate.
Fwiw the peace of the world hinges on Pakistan now.
If a country has been causing terrorism in my country for decades now, animosity is well deserved.
And this nonsense was started even before independence (Direct Action Day).
The idea of Pakistan is rooted in a very evil foundation even if the majority of the population might not be.
My general policy is to ignore you but this has to be responded to.
“Animosity” goes both ways. India has been hostile to Pakistan from day one. India’s leaders believed Pakistan would not be viable and we would come crawling back in ten years. Unfortunately for you, we remain a strong self respecting nuclear-armed Muslim nation. Sorry that we are a thorn in your side.
India broke Pakistan in 1971. That is something that we are never going to forgive or forget.
“The idea of Pakistan is rooted in a very evil foundation”– Why is it “evil” for Muslim-majority provinces to refuse to submit to being a permanent minority under Hindu rule? This is simply the right to self-determination.
Would Hindu majority provinces have submitted to being a permanent minority under Muslim rule? Of course not.
Everyone is a minority if you look into it.
Sikhs are a minority in India as are Christians as are Brahmins as are Dalits.
Shias are a minority in Pakistan too.
The “evil” is in creating an Islamist supremacist state where non Muslims (including Ahmadis) have lesser rights and using methods which led to great violence to get it.
India didn’t break anything in 1971.
The Bangladeshis became free.
Their PM posted on X about Pakistani occupational forces which led to a lot of Pakistanis crying.
Like Afghanistan, even Bangladesh are on India’s side now contrary to the wet dreams of Pakistanis lol.
The Muslim-majority provinces had a right to our own nation-state. We were not going to live under Hindu rule and nor should we have been expected to. The Lahore Resolution was passed in 1940. This basically called for Pakistan.
If you wouldn’t expect Hindus to submit to Muslim rule, then you shouldn’t expect Muslims to submit to Hindu rule.
East Pakistan was unequivocally part of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. India was delighted to divide our country into two. We are not going to forget that.
Anyway this is all academic. Regardless of the feelings of Indians, Pakistan will remain a strong self-respecting nuclear-armed Muslim nation.
Pakistanis will never accept Indian hegemony.
This regressive demand that muslims cannot “submit” to non-muslim rule is to put it in Kabir’s terms – offensive.
Muslims live all over the planet under ‘non-muslim’ governance. If a simple numerical majority entitles a particular religion to demand secession, this can be applied in oh-so-many different ways, even to Pakistan’s detriment. Why is religion the sole criteria for ‘self-determination and secession? Why don’t the Baloch have a right to fight for a separate state? Tomorrow, why don’t the Sindhis.
Its all farcical really.
We don’t need to relitigage partition
then why is this nonsense about ‘muslims not submitting’ being regurgitated over and over.
Kabir is simply giving a foundational ideology.
you are on record multiple times saying that the TNT is nonsense, no?
You can believe it’s nonsense. Go ahead.
TNT is the ideology of Pakistan. It’s going to remain the ideology of Pakistan.
Unlike India, Pakistan is an ideological state. Pak Fauj is the guardian of that ideology.
But we don’t have precedent on this? This all started with the Pakjabi comment
I’m generally trying not to get into this again with you. But you fundamentally misunderstand history.
British India was not a nation-state but a colony. The Muslim-majority parts of that colony expressed the wish on 23 March 1940 that they did not want to live as a minority under Hindu rule. We didn’t take Hindu land for our country only land that was solidly Muslim-majority in the first place.
The “Two nation theory” posited that the Muslims of British India were not a minority but a nation. As such, we had a right to our own nation-state.
Pakistan didn’t “secede” from India. You cannot “secede” from a colony only from a nation-state.
“Muslims live all over the planet under ‘non-Muslim’ governance.”– Muslims are immigrants to the US (for example). We are not the natives of the land. If people choose to immigrate to a non-Muslim country, that’s their choice.
The Muslims of British India were natives of the land.
Sindh chose to join Pakistan. No one ever promised the Baloch a plebiscite. This whole argument is disingenuous.
Your fundamental problem is that you cannot stand the existence of a sovereign Muslim-majority state called the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Must be tough being you.
Not a question of “accept”.
Even in cricket, Pakistan didn’t want to “accept” Indian hegemony.
How’s it working so far?
Here again, the false equivalency between a state that has cynically deployed terrorism for 30 years, justifying it because the Bengalis secceded from Pakistan due to pogroms that arguably meet the threshold for genocide.
Blatant dishonesty like this in the guise of ‘patriotism’ is a disservice to the entire subcontinent, including Pakistan.
The path to reconciliation and peace begins with honesty.
India broke Pakistan. East Pakistan was unequivocally Pakistani territory. You like “facts” so much. These are simply facts.
You can never break Pakistan again since we now have nuclear arms. Our territorial integrity is an absolute red line.
You don’t have a monopoly on “honesty”. Pakistanis are entitled to our point of view.
There will no “reconciliation” or “peace” on your terms.
You are dealing with a strong self-respecting nuclear armed state. Wake up.
yeah we see the ‘self-respect’ with IMF and ‘bored of peace’.
How many Pakistani’s East Turkestani wives have been ‘disapperared’ by the Chinese communists in Uighurstan – where’s the self-respect then?
The place is called Xianjiang.
There is no “Uighuristan”. Don’t antagonize China.
It was the Republic of East Turkestan, a muslim country illegally invaded and annexed by the Chinese communists.
History is what it is. And I understand that you lack the …gumption to deal with such facts.
China’s territorial integrity is a red line. China is a nuclear state.
Reminds me of this
‘strong self-respecting nukulear armed state’ can’t even afford to allow an audience watch cricket games in its own stadiums, because its unable to provide security.
And you have feudal landlord princelings issuing threats on the interwebs on their behalf.
That has nothing to do with security. We’re running on austerity measures.
That’s the “official” reason.
If austerity measures, why not host closed games in Peshawar?
This is a ridiculous comment- we are only allowing it up to refute it. Pakistan “rooted” in this evil.
This is exactly how Israelis look at Palestinians; this is dangerous, dehumanising language.
We are simply allowing it this time to set a mini precedent that this won’t be tolerated (there will be no posts about “why Pakistsn is not evil).
Also terrorism is not the top 5 or 10 worries in any developing country. We also feel that “terrorism” is also leveraged by governments to get awash with agendas.
This is not to say one agrees with PakMil or ISI in anyway but even so it’s pretty obvious now Pakistan is emerging as a key player in all this. So it may just save the world; an opportunity India lost since it fell out post-Sindoor with the US, deliberately chose Israel & alienated Iran
Pakistan can become the main player of all that’s going on for all we care. We just want to be left alone but the Pakistani establishment just can’t let it be.
You may think terrorism is not a top 10 worry but national security certainly is and we have to worry about both – with due credit to Pakistan.
Does the BJP use Pakistan’s actions to garner votes – of course it does but do Indians expect it to not respond, absolutely no.
Our population had been too numbed, gaslit and dhimmi-fied by successive left aligned regimes to think that our only option was to turn the other cheek. That has changed and with the passing away of generations that had some personal connections with Pakistan still, the feeling of animosity will only grow.
Oh and at least some Indian Muslims are also onboard the great deter Pakistan project. May our numbers grow!
https://x.com/asadowaisi/status/1921214880256082019
National security is certainly a worry.
India is a hostile state to Pakistan. We will take whatever actions against you that we need to take as determined by our own national security priorities. There will be no more “Sindoors” ever. Just try it and
Pak Fauj will hit back with unbelievable force.
Pakistan’s national security is first and foremost–no matter who the enemy is.
Pak ‘phauuj’ is busy fending off the Afghans and Baloch. Barely able to do that, let alone any ‘unbelievable force’ against India.
I say good luck. Pak phaaujj needs it.
Don’t worry. We are fully capable of dealing with all national security threats. We are a nuclear power.
Pak Fauj exists to deter India. We will continue to do that.
Try another “Sindoor”. See what we do to you.
Pakistan comes first and will always come first.
Deal with it,
Your anti-Pakistan animus is repetitive and ridiculous.
The only difference between you and BB is that he is openly a troll and you try to hide behind fake “neutrality”.
You could’t do anything during the first Sindoor lol.
Admin Note: Kabir we asked you to calm it .
I’m definitely not ‘neutral’ when it comes to terrorism, and its corrupt vendors like the Pakistani Military.
or Apologists for such crimes against humanity.
Admin Note: BB you are at risk at having 20 comment deletion.
Keep digging. Anti-Pakistan troll.
When Pak fauj couldn’t even hit back with “unbelievable force” at the first Sindoor, how can it hit back in the future.
Next “Sindoor” will be even more devastating. Inda has been going up the escalation ladder each conflict.
Ye naya Hindustan hai, ghar me ghusega bhi aur marega bhi.
Admin Note: stop
Nothing in geopolitics is permanent. A decade from now, I expect to see India as one of the primary consumers of Iran’s energy exports. Its inevitable. Geography imposes its own destiny.
India is one of the countries that is allowed passage in Hormuz.
There is no alienation.
Iran is not going to break ties with the soon to be third largest economy in the world.
And Pakistan is neither “saving the world” nor “emerging as a key player”.
No meeting has taken place.
Pak media have a history of premature celebration.
They celebrated when Taliban took over in 2021 hoping that they could concentrate on Kashmir only to have Taliban turn on Pakistan and mend ties with India.
They celebrated when Hasina fell in 2024 hoping that a Pakistan allied Bangladesh could cause havoc in NE India only to have BNP explicitly say Bangladesh won’t be used for anti India activities and castigated Pakistani “occupational forces”.
Same with the “confirmed” JF-17 sales and the “mediation”.
Some Pakistani reporter publishes a speculative story. Someone else refers to it and so on using circular references and then they treat it as truth only for them to fall flat on face in a few days.
Same with the cricket boycott drama.
A country poorer than most Sub-saharan African countries with an economy smaller than the likes of Romania and Colombia will never be a global player.
Pakistan is basically the North Korea of the Indian subcontinent .
“Pakjabi” is a slur. It is completely unacceptable.
As a general rule of thumb, if language would be edited out when it refers to Indians then similar language should certainly not be allowed when it refers to Pakistanis.
Admin Note: Stop BB
No thanks. I don’t watch anti-Pakistan movies.
Bollywood in general is not to my taste.
You will find that after India violated our sovereignty last year, many Pakistanis have turned against your cultural products.
1. Pakistanis are economically insignificant as they are a very poor nation, below sub-saharan African countries.
2. Many Pakistanis who were banned on Indian social media made alternate accounts so they could make money off Indian engagement.
3. Both Dhurandhar movies are extremely popular in Pakistan. You can see clips on social media of Pakistanis watching it.
Admin Note: Kabir you are also at risk of comment deletion.
I don’t know what you said but you must have burst if your comment got deleted.
Can you disprove any of my facts without getting emotional?
Pakistan is extremely poor and is poorer than many SSA countries. IMF/UN data proves it. Crying about it won’t change the reality.
Yes – this time we allowed it simply to provide warning and context but BB crosses the line every time.
It’s an ugly comment to read
Quite well-written.
I think its …notable how Pakistanis demand an irrational sort of false equivalency when it comes to India and Pakistan, especially when it comes to questions of secularism and the respective national and legal structures that exist in the 2 countries.
In order for a genuine, lasting aman ki asha to blossom, a bit of honesty is required. If we keep glossing over the root causes, you are just repeating the cyclical doom loop of yesteryear.
South Asia has been continously inhabited by humans for over 70,000 years now, which is the longest stretch anywhere outside of East Africa. These types of movies that still seek to avoid dehumanization of the enemy are what will keep this stretch going, otherwise we will be seeing nuclear war in our lifetimes. The delusion is that movies based on soldiers’s memoir and a true story are now called propaganda, while fantasy fiction slop like Dhurandar is considered the truth.
The way Indians have been led to believe that they will defeat Pakistan in a decisive war is going to lead them to ruin. The Afghans in 1947 believed the same when they were stronger then Pakistan, and tried to destroy us when they could, look where are they now? India should have gone ahead with Operation Brasstacks but chickened out. This is their nature, they chicken out. Now it’s too late.
There is no point in ”peace”, we both can continue to wage a cold war because you believe your fantasy and we believe ours, but if you think you can light the match, we will bring the fire.
Reality is that India has “already” defeated Pakistan in a decisive war in which they lost more than hald the country. Greatest surrender since WWII.
All of this nonsense like “chicken out” and “bring the fire” sounds good on social media but doesn’t change ground reality.
Bangladesh exists as much as Pakistanis don’t like it. And it is a much richer country than Pakistan getting even richer plus with a better cricket team to boot.
For all the online bluster, reality is India has made Pakistan lose territory since 1947, not vice versa.
Even in 1971, apart from Bangladesh, India gained and kept more territory in Kashmir.
And Siachen pre 1984 used to be in Pakistani control.
>The way Indians have been led to believe that they will defeat Pakistan in a decisive war is going to lead them to ruin.
where’s this coming from? Nobody in India wants a war with Pak, let alone a ‘decisive’ one. India is focused on development and growth.
But yes, there is a significant emphasis on deterring terrorism and Pakistani jihadi shenanigans, crap which has shed a lot of Indian blood over last 3 decades.
>India should have gone ahead with Operation Brasstacks but chickened out. This is their nature, they chicken out. Now it’s too late.
Yeah, this is kinda racist, but whatever. I think any illusions of Indians “chickening out” have been updated with the Balakot raids, and now Op Sindoor.
India didn’t hesitate in initiating a military conflict with a ‘nukulear’ power in retaliation for a terror attack. And went up the escalation ladder by bombing PAF bases at will.
Keyboard warriors can console themselves in whatever manner they wish, but the demolished hangars and runaways speak a language all their own, and directly to the PakMil top brass.
>but if you think you can light the match, we will bring the fire.
Such regressive thinking is mirrored in PakMil leadership as well – the sad analogy of a gravel filled dumptruck to India’s shining Mercedes, made by your Failed Marshal.
Don’t you wish for a better future for Pakistanis and your children, than to be a violent spoiler ‘dump truck’?
Admin Note: Kabir you have been asked to stop. Cease now
Admin Note: do you want your comments removed?
@X.T.M – He is the one who went mask off
@RecoveringNewsJunkie – He really sounds like Major Iqbal lol
“Failed Marshal” is not acceptable.
He knows he’s being triggering.
Why do you allow blatant abuse of Pak Fauj?
Admin Note: Calm now
No “peace” on Indian terms.
They want us subservient to them.
Never going to happen.
Already happened.
World exists in reality not la la land.
In cricket Pakistan bends the knee like a good boy and does what it’s told. Attempts at rebellion are swiftly ended without any concessions.
Pakistani team is made to fly out in its own hosted tournament to play India in a stadium filled with an Indian audience with DJ playing Indian music.
In Netflix/Prime Indian execs block any Pakistani content from coming (helpless impotent Pakistani filmmakers have admitted to it).
As the economic gap widens, Pakistan themselves will come in line just so that they can make some money doing mazdoori in India.
Easier to just cross the border daily and do some labour (like Mexicans do in the USA) than go to the UAE.
Life is not Bollywood. You have an obsession with Bollywood and cricket. Neither matter as much as you think.
Admin Note: Kabir stop.
They do, no matter how you deny it.
What else do Pakistanis have?
Not really good in any other sport. No movie industry as such. Dramas are all cousin marriage slop.
No international artists come for concerts. No developed cuisine scene.
Pakistanis have no avenue for recreation or self expression.
You clearly know very little about Pakistan. It’s fine. Keep revealing your ignorance.
Writers from all over the world come for Lahore Literature Festival and Karachi Literature Festival. That’s just one example.
Clearly denigrating Pakistan serves some psychological need for you. It’s quite pathetic at this point.
Naah, the LLF and KLF barely hold a candle to the real big daddy JLF.
Their lineup is a pale shadow of the JLF which regularly has Booker/Pulitzer winners (which mind you no Pakistani or Pakistani origin writer has WON while plenty of Indian/Indian origin writers have).
Keep putting Pakistan down.
You are a troll.
You have the mentality of an adolescent boy. You are clearly not at my intellectual level.
Can you refute what I have said objectively?
Nothing I have said is not a fact.
You are right, they want everyone around them to be subservient, but they think they can do that without fighting. Outside of some warrior castes like rajputs and jutts, most Indians don’t understand that dignity & honor is sometimes more important than your life. Maybe on a conscious level they do realize it because they always harp on about how great their history is – perhaps to derive some form of dignity from that when it cannot be derived from the present.
Absolutely.
All the economic growth in the world cannot compete with ghairat.
We will never accept their hegemony. They cannot stand a proud Muslim nation of 250 million people.
Rich feudal English speaking Pakistanis might enjoy speaking this nonsense.
But the 70cc bike riding poorer than sub saharan Africa awaam might not think so.
They might not enjoy eating grass while the feudals gorge on nihari.
And last time it happened in 71 we saw what happened.
And economic growth leads to ghairat.
It is this loss of ghairat in cricket where Pakistanis are refused handshakes like pariahs, where their tournaments are taken away from them, where they are banned in leagues around the world that has led to much wailing within Pakistan.
Then there is the loss of ghairat when Pakistanis get visas rejected, have to go through extra checking in airports etc due to weak passport which is a downstream effect of the economy.
This is exactly the issue with a country like Pakistan – they are run by the people who drive around in Thars with caste stickers on the NCR.
Nothing wrong with that. You need some of them for serving in the military.
But you also need other kinds for economic/scientific gains (which also help in “fighting”).
This isn’t ancient times where you can march around on horses.
The Brahmos that wreaked havoc was made by Indian nerds.
The Indian economy which allows Pakistan to be sidelined in cricket and by Netflix/Prime was also guided by Indian nerds.
You can see this “honour” mentality with the Pakistani fellating of Kohli too as he is a “brave warrior” who has defeated them in cricket many times while ignoring the fact that Kohli is the result of a system and economy built by nerds.
Sarr what was the name of the richest baniya in Shivaji’s government when he was waging war against Aurangzeb?
Do you know? Yeah I don’t know that either. Because no body cares.
If this does not tell you what you idolize, nothing else will.
Paijaan but the Marathas won and ended the Mughal empire and that was due to both the “baniya” and the “warrior”.
Like I said, for all its martial posturing, Pakistan has lost territory/population to India post independence.
1. Bangladesh obviously the big example where Pakistan lost more than half the people
2. India gained more territory in Kashmir in 1971 and there are villages in Kargil which used to be Pakistani
3. India took control of Siachen which used to be under Pakistani control pre 1984
So paijaan, how did the martial paindu race lose people/territory to brahmin/bania while the reverse never happened?
Maybe because this martial race was so dumb that they did things like order winter gear from the same shop Indians bought from thus alerting the Indians?
“Paijaan but the Marathas won and ended the Mughal empire”
by getting rich?
BTW, Mughal empire ended in 1857, Marathas were done and dusted by 1805. I think you can do the math.
I see you avoided the question: what is the name of the richest bania in Shivaji’s government?
BTW, Mughal empire was relegated to a fiefdom around Delhi which paid tribute to the Marathas. Using similar logic, Marathas were a thing till 1947 or tbh even now considering many of the houses like Gwalior remained.
And yes, Marathas won by getting rich. The “bania” needs to fund the war effort so the warrior can fight.
There is a reason Pakistan has lost all its wars vs India and ceded territory/population in spite of being a “martial race”.
The name of the bania need not be known just like the name of the DRDO scientists who worked on the Brahmos.
Heck, the terrorists killed by the unknown gunmen are known while no one knows about the assassins.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/indian-government-assassination-allegations-pakistan-intelligence-officials
If Pakistanis focused on doing a job right instead of being “known” like some TikTok influencer, maybe the country wouldn’t be where it is.
And I see you avoided my question:
Why is it that the martial race has lost territory/population because of the bania but never the opposite?
Okay but whats the name of the guys who were funding the war effort? Must be one or two you idolize, right?
I don’t need to know him and I don’t need to idolize him.
This is just a cope you have invented about Indians “counting shekels” while the reality is that apart from “counting shekels” India is also militarily stronger and have inflicted territory losses to Pakistan multiple times in history.
What are the names of the generals who lost Kashmir in 48, Bangladesh in 71 and Siachen in 84?
Ok wait. So you claim in every goddamn post how you are rich and you are so mighty because of it and how you will crush everyone around you because you are going to be rich. And you claim how warrior groups are retards..
and yet you can’t even name a few rich guys you idolize in your history, while idolizing warriors yourself?
is this not a moment of introspection, a moment for self reflection?
Naah, this is your internal logic which you are using to justify things.
Like I said, this isn’t history where you can go around riding horses.
You need money in the present day to wage wars.
And I did say you need some “warrior groups” for fighting. Indian army still recruits a lot of jatts and rajputs and marathas.
It’s just not 1600 where a “warrior group” is enough hence Pakistan’s current state where even with “warrior groups” Pakistan constantly lose to India.
Imagine the Mongols or Uzbeks taking on China or India now lol.
As an addendum:
I mean even Pakistan’s relative success over the Afghans is due to Pakistanis being more of “banias” compared to Afghans and having an actual economy (no matter how poor) to fund weapons/arms.
Afghans used to rule over what is Pakistan for hundreds of years and are even more of a “warrior group” than the ones in Pakistan and had an actual empire rather than be some paindu landlord.
You need money in the 21st century to fight wars.
We’re not moderating this thread anymore as both sides seem to have gone off their rocker..
Have you seen dhurandhar yet?
Trailers at the cinema
as feared, he doesnt know anyone with money from the past.
as feared, Pakistan lost all the wars and lost territory/population
Ab Pakistan ka mustakbil, Hindustan tay karega.
You can continue to quote this stupid Bollywood trash.
We are a nuclear state. You raise your dirty eyes to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and we will give you hell.
Nothing and no one trumps Pakistan’s national security.
Chup Jihadi, you are the trash.
Kabir, kafiron ka jallad
Ghante ka jallad
These types of movies that still seek to avoid dehumanization of the enemy are what will keep this stretch going, otherwise we will be seeing nuclear war in our lifetimes.
Indian movies have only started to show reality and you’re finding that too hard to bear. Wait till someone makes a movie on Capt Kalia and what you lot did to him and his company. Pakistanis have a history of treating Indian PoWs like medieval savages than a civilized country. Thankfully the Indian public now knows better than to fall for such blatant propaganda.
I would much rather the subcontinent becomes a nuclear wasteland than it turn in to another Islamist hellhole like Afghanistan or Pakistan. I’d much rather my descendants turn to glass at the end of a nuclear bomb than convert at the business end of a gun. The sooner we learn to punch back than turn the other cheek, the better it will be for all humanity (barring Pakistanis, of course).
They should make a 1971 movie in two parts – the first part following RAW as they train Mukti Bahini and can be like a spy movie with the second part following the war and more of a traditional war movie while still following the cast of the first movie.
Honestly, I think the real story that needs to be told is the Kashmir War of 1947. So many good sub-plots like Brig. Usman’s gallant leadership, Muslim INA soldiers turning full-on Islamist jihadis and murdering their own comrades, Nehru being gaslit in to not recovering PoK by Mountbatten and his own Army Chief Roy Bucher who was serving British interests rather than India’s – I could go on.
Lots to be made.
Dhar has opened the gates.
“I would much rather the subcontinent becomes a nuclear wasteland”– Wow! Just wow!
@XTM: Is this kind of comment acceptable to you?
He can say it, it’s not his kids dying lol (if he has any)
One Indian poster asks: “Such regressive thinking is mirrored in PakMil leadership as well – the sad analogy of a gravel filled dumptruck to India’s shining Mercedes, made by your Failed Marshal.
Don’t you wish for a better future for Pakistanis and your children, than to be a violent spoiler ‘dump truck’?”
The other Indian says: “I would much rather the subcontinent becomes a nuclear wasteland than it turn in to another Islamist hellhole like Afghanistan or Pakistan. I’d much rather my descendants turn to glass at the end of a nuclear bomb than convert at the business end of a gun”
Guys look inside your own countries.
As the great General Zia ul Haq threatened: the Islamic civilization will survive any nuclear holocaust, Hindu civilization will not.
Again Pakistanis kanging on “Islamic civilization” while Muslims around the world have been killing each other for centuries (including the current conflict lol).
Pakistanis kanging on “ummah” is like some Indian Christian convert kanging on the British/Portuguese empire.
Pakistanis are converted Punjabi peasants from jatt/rajput/gujjar backgrounds.
They are not:
Arabs, as is evident by their treatment in the Arab countries where they form the blue collar labour class
Afghans, who are literally at war with Pakistan now and conducting bomb blasts within Pakistan’s cities
Mughals, the vast majority of whose descendants are Indian citizens and the majority of the ex-empire lying within India including the biggest monuments like the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort and the majority of the tombs
Just a bunch of paindus ruled by the British, the Sikh, the Afghans and the Mughals in that order.
I think this post literally outlines Indian inferiority complex.
Crab in a bucket mentality.
The racial self hatred and lack of self-confidence here is very prominent.
General Zia ul Haq said that because he knew this is the only way to deal with Indian’s racial self hatred: an appeal to a loss to Hindu civilization because otherwise the biomass is happy nuking the entire place.
I mean it is Pakistani paindus with the racial self hatred and inferiority complex who pretend to be other ethnicities like Arabs who literally make them clean toilets in the middle east or Afghans who call them daalkhor and parade their armymens’ corpses naked.
Completely an anti-Pakistan comment.
Your beloved India is full of malnourished and illiterate people.
You act like you are a citizen of a first world country. You’re not.
I actually am.
YOUR failed state of Pakistan is the one filled with malnourished and illiterate people.
In both metrics you are far behind.
Even if you are an American citizen, two things
1. There are way more Indian Americans than Pakistanis who are richer and more successful and they haven’t been sent to Guantanamo
2. You still live in Pakistan like a loser. Maybe you were deported, maybe you couldn’t hack it and needed to lord over 70cc bike riding serfs – you live in Lahore not Los Angeles.
@XTM: We are back to the “deported” rhetoric.
Claiming a Muslim has been deported from the US is a dangerous accusation.
This person needs his authorship revoked.
BB: I warned you not to get personal with me.
@S Qureishi @Bombay Badshah
Have we arrived at something? what unites us is perhaps a shared racial self-loathing, with albeit two different paths of “therapy”. Fitting that Brown Pundits has traditionally been ahead of the curve as a forum for south asian population genetics. XTM sits above the fray perhaps as his Iranian side doesn’t have the same neurosis. Sbarrkum has the right idea, until we love our black (AASI) selves, we won’t heal.
Indians are not pretending not to be Indians.
The transnational ummah aesthetic is a type of globalism, call it dubaification , much like global california. Indians definitely participate in this, and go to great lengths to look like other races. Its practically a meme.
On an individual basis maybe but not state policy.
And being groomed is not the same as looking like other races.
Pakistanis are far more attractive than you all.
Get over it.
You seem to get your cues from social media. Social media is full of Indians (both men and women) thirsting over Pakistani men.
Sbarrkum has the right idea, until we love our black (AASI) selves, we won’t heal.
Thanks girmit.
Not interested in movie reviews also dont read comment either.
Saw you had commented so looked.
Sometimes I wonder if the Indo Aryan animosity to Pakistanis is deeper. i.e. Pakistanis are more “Aryan” than the Indian Indo Aryan, many of who CLAIM to be Aryan
This anti Pakistani is not prevalent in the South, definitely not in Sri Lanka
Self-projection much?
And yet another anti-Pakistan comment!
We can all screenshot random comments without context.
“historically based on the amputation of India in 1947”– Do you all really not understand the difference between a colony and a nation-state? We’ve gone over this millions of times. There was nothing sacred about British India’s borders. The Muslim-majority parts of the colony had the absolute right to opt out of being part of a Hindu-majority nation-state.
Really, this phenomenon of Indians getting their jollies from putting Pakistan down deserves deeper psychological study.
Man, comments deleted. Qureshi and Kabir had posted a lot but deleted before I could read them.
After breakfast, I was ready for some panga but alas.
We removed 20 of your comments and 20 of Kabir’s .. We have also removed your Authorship rights.
This was started by you and “Pakjabi.” Kabir is also at fault for continuing it.
I should be given a month’s waiver from the release of dhurandhar for aggressive behaviour.
I am filled with a lot of josh.
You repeatedly promised not to get personal.
Comments about me being “deported” from the US are absolutely unacceptable. As is calling me a “Jihadi”.
I am not going to accept your apology again. Your anti-Pakistan trolling has gone on long enough.
“Josh” is not an excuse. You are free to enjoy your Bollywood fantasies but constantly spewing hate against Pakistan doesn’t add to this forum.
In any case, there is far too much discussion of Pakistan on BP as it is. Each and every thread is somehow turned into a discussion of how “evil” Pakistan is. BB and RNJ have no other agenda.
Baat sun oye Kabir tu aur teri jamat gaand ka zor laga lena behnchod iska mukabla nhi kar sakoge.
Aur ek din aayega Kabir jab yeh Hindustan wale tereko border pe le jayenge aur randi mujra karwayenge TAKDINADHINTHA.
This is a truly disgusting and homophobic comment.
What is wrong with you?
I will make you say Bharat Mata ki Jai
How are you going to do that? I’m not an Indian Muslim that can be forced into doing so.
I live in a sovereign nuclear-armed self-respecting Muslim-majority country. I will never praise “Bharat Mata” nor chant Hindu slogans.
This is precisely why Pakistan exists.
If I said “I will make you say Pakistan Zindabad” all hell would break loose on BP. Your comment is absolutely hateful.
Do read XTM’s latest post. Your beloved “Dhurandhar 2” has been called a bad and hateful film.
Naah it is a good film. I have explained to XTM why his analysis is wrong and what he missed.
It will be the highest grossing Indian film and is being loved by real Americans.
Pakistan’s truth is now exposed for all to see.
I will make you say Bharat Mata ki Jai by infiltrating into Pakistan and pointing a gun at your head.
“I will make you say Bharat Mata ki Jai by infiltrating into Pakistan and pointing a gun at your head”–
@XTM: This is an absolutely unhinged comment. Not only should BB’s authorship be revoked he should be completely banned from this site.
That is a threat of personal violence. This is not on.
@X.T.M – Dhurandhar one month waiver
@Kabir – Main aur Tu oooo
No matter how impressed you are by some Bollywood fantasy there is absolutely no excuse for threatening to point a gun at someone’s head.
It’s a different matter that “infiltrating” Pakistan is not as easy as you seem to think it is.
I’ve contacted XTM. You should be banned from this site.
Don’t threaten me.
Bhai you have a two month removal of Authorship; as Kabir said he won’t accept your apology.
Did you write this “will make you say Bharat Mata ki jai by infiltrating into Pakistan and holding a gun to your head”.
Tbh, that comment made me laugh because of how comically unhinged it was. The problem is that an anonymous handle (admittedly like myself) is trolling a real person (Kabir) which is very unfair. This highly discourages earnest discussion, even if its temporarily amusing.
Yes we may have to ban BB from commenting for a month; the threat of violence is not funny.
But we are investigating; as SP sahib told his talented deputy, Omar, where there is “shaq”, investigate.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/indian-government-assassination-allegations-pakistan-intelligence-officials
this will be your last comment until Thursday 2nd of April. do not comment after this as it will be deleted.
you need to reflect deeply and then send an email on the 2nd of April, which will be shared to see whether you will be allowed to comment again.
this was a VERY egregious comment – https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/03/28/on-dhurandhar-decorum-and-where-bp-draws-the-line/
lease see your email.
It was completely unhinged. How does he think he can carry it out?
Real life is not a Bollywood movie. One cannot easily “infiltrate” Pakistan.
On a more serious note, threats of violence should be a red line for everyone–anonymous or not.
Also the fact that he wants to make a Muslim say “Bharat Mata ki Jai” reveals a fascist streak. I’m Pakistani and therefore beyond his reach but there are plenty of Indian Muslims whom he can force to chant this slogan.
As XTM wrote in his review of “Dhurandhar 2” such films serve to normalize hate. It’s not just innocent entertainment. I can also enjoy a good spy movie at times but not when it’s so clear that it is propaganda.
Here is the full comment:
https://www.brownpundits.com/2026/03/26/ikkis-thoughts-on-another-propaganda-movie/#comment-129713
Threats of violence are not a joke.
If you have any shame you will apologize.
You should be banned from this forum entirely.
I don’t think a single other commenter here has ever threatened to hold a gun to anyone’s head. This is a new low.
I’m not sure how things work in India but in America this would be considered a death threat and law enforcement would have a word with you.
EDIT: The comment was for @bombaybadshah who posted a snippet from the propaganda movie “dhurandar” of Ranveer Singh pointing a gun and a phone at someone, with a cryptic message and threat towards Kabir. Since the comment has been removed, just wanted put this on the record that my comment wasn’t directed toward Kabir.
https://imgur.com/a/Bx98cZr
I don’t think it was a death threat. It was definitely a threat of violence.
To be honest, I’m still quite disturbed that anyone on this forum would think it is OK to write about making someone chant Hindutva slogans at gunpoint.
The thing that I find scary is that while his threats cannot be applied to Pakistanis, there are plenty of Muslims in his own country whom he can treat this way.
I know Indians and Pakistanis don’t like each other but there is online “debate” and then there are threats of violence. The latter are inexcusable.
In general, there has been far too much dehumanization of Pakistanis on BP. Mostly by BB but RNJ also has a lot of animus against us.
I apologize for getting carried away.
I really have no interest in attacking India but I will defend Pakistan when it is attacked.
Low effort posts only merit low effort replies – or none at all, don’t take the bait.
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