Note: As always, I do not tolerate anti-Pakistan comments on my threads. If you don’t respect the red lines, your comments will be summarily deleted. The usual suspects (they know who they are) have been completely banned from commenting on my posts. Don’t antagonize me.
By Anwar Iqbal in DAWN:
According to these reports, Pakistanâs military and civilian leadership has been in direct contact with senior US officials, including President Donald Trump, conveying Islamabadâs willingness to facilitate dialogue and reduce tensions.
Some accounts suggest that Pakistan has even indicated readiness to host talks in Islamabad if the parties are prepared to explore diplomatic channels.
Vali Nasr, a prominent Washington-based scholar, argues that any Pakistani diplomatic initiative is unlikely to occur in isolation from Saudi Arabia:
âPakistan will only step up if it has Saudi backing â and prodding. Riyadh is likely very much in the picture,â he wrote in a post on X.
And:
Pakistanâs value as a potential intermediary also stems from its parallel access to Tehran and Washington â a rare combination in the current geopolitical climate.
Analyst Michael Kugelman makes this point clearly: âPakistan is far from being an unlikely US-Iran mediator. Many high-level Pak-Iran meetings over last year. The US administration is very fond of Pakistan. Trump has said (Field Marshal Asim) Munir knows Iran better than most. Also worth noting that Pakistan represents Iranâs diplomatic interests in the US.â
Update: Pakistan stands ‘ready, honored’ to host US-Iran talks, says PM ShehbazÂ
But even 2021 hasnât been a failure per se.
The risk is that India RW has been so wedded to Zionism + American hegemony; itâs not willing to accept that the world irreversibly changed this week.
A pre-Pahalgam Pakistan was tottering on failed state status; a post-Pahalgam Pakistan is now lead diplomat.
Itâs a pretty insane turn of events. Even Afghanistan hasnât been a loss per se.
Everyone on this blog knows that we are no fan of Pakistanâs high commands decisions but they seem to be navigating it very well. Even the fact that Pakistan hasnât erupted with IK in jail.
China has been a big game changer to the Ummah; itâs infused this âpragmatic quality.â What has prosperity really done for GCC & Dubai; itâs made them cower in their boots, helpless to larger powers.
And they are too far behind militarily to catch up with Iran; & Pakistan is the only safe + trusted power because it is a proximate non-Arab military behemoth (Egypt + Turkey are less reliable).
But globally Pakistan is perceived to have done well in Sindoor; five French planes down with crazy Chinese tech and perhaps Pakistani skill is all people can remember.
Life isnât just Grand Strategy but daily tactics.
We wouldnât be surprised if PakIran become VERY firm allies.
As I keep saying on this blog (and the Indian nationalists refuse to understand): For Pakistan victory is defined as deterring India.
There is going to be no repeat of “Operation Sindoor”. If the Indians are unwise enough to do so, Pak Fauj will hit back with even more force. As we absolutely should. We cannot and will not allow our enemy to violate our sovereignty.
Pak Fauj’s main job is to defend Pakistan against India. If they cannot do that, there is no point to them.
“Next mischief, Pakistan will look like Gaza.”
This is an anti-Pakistan comment. India is not Israel and Pakistan is not Palestine. We are a nuclear power. Don’t forget that.
This is exactly why you are permanently banned from my threads. Any further comments will be summarily deleted.
Why on earth would you write something like that BB; itâs offensive on so many levels especially to the poor Gazans..
I think it points to a larger issue. Israel sees itself as the hegemon in the Middle East (to some extent it is since it is the only nuclear power). India sees itself as the hegemon in South Asia.
However India is not Israel and Pakistan is not Palestine. Pakistan has a powerful army and air force. We are a nuclear power. India cannot “mow the lawn” with respect to Pakistan the way Israel can in Palestine or in Lebanon.
Pakistan will never accept Indian hegemony. That would go against the very point of Pakistan existing.
“Pakistan hasn’t erupted with IK in jail”–
Pak Fauj runs Pakistan. Anyone who knows anything about Pakistan knows that. IK will remain in jail unless the Field Marshal feels like releasing him. Since IK unwisely made an enemy of Pak Fauj and particularly of the Field Marshal, his prospects are not good.
The May 9 unrest was a red line for Pak Fauj–as it absolutely should be. No true Pakistani patriot should even contemplate attacking military installations.
“Six Reasons Why Pakistan as US-Iran Interlocutor Is a Strategic Setback for India”
https://thewire.in/news/six-reasons-why-pakistan-as-us-iran-interlocutor-is-a-strategic-setback-for-india
When people say “âPakistan will only step up if it has Saudi backing â and prodding. Riyadh is likely very much in the picture,â they are completely wrong. Their analysis comes from them assuming a submissive role of Pakistan and that it cannot act independently of US, China or Saudi Arabia. Infact on the contrary, Pakistan has always acted independently but pragmatically, and the same applies here. Saudis want the war to continue, while Pakistan does not want to get dragged into it. This is why Pakistan is being pro active and trying to bring peace.
Just like Israelis know they cannot take on Iran without the US and want US soldiers to fight Iran, the Saudis are hopeless at fighting and want to expend Pakistani blood for their own objectives. This type of mentality should be nipped in the bud.
It appears that Pakistan is the only country apart from China that can mediate this conflict as the Iranians still trust us. Im not sure why the Iranians trust the Pakistanis but it does appear that we may have helped them in someway covertly during the previous war that formed this basis.
I don’t think the talks will amount to anything if JD Vance is not part of it.. since Kushner and Witcoff are Israeli agents, not American.
Pakistan does follow Muslim brotherhood ideology; it was explicitly created on the basis of that.
Islamic Revolutionary Republic of Iran, counts for something.
Jamaat e Islami (Muslim brotherhood org) opposed creation of Pakistan.
Pakistan was created by Aligarh modernists. Jinnah was a Secular Anglophile Shia Muslim.
Also, the ideological basis may have been important in the early days but it isn’t now since Pakistani identity is pretty well established after 80 years of nation building.
We meant in a looser sense; that Pakistan is and has been the most âUmmah-focussedâ nation on the planet. It is the national ideology.
Very much like Israel; religious Jews initially opposed it.
Yes it’s the driving ideology, but that isn’t just Pakistan itself but in general South Asian Muslims have been ‘Ummah focused’ after losing the Mughal Empire in 1857. Something to do with insecurity about minority status. All three movements (Deobandi, Barelvi, Aligharh) spawned after 1857 and are very pan-Islamist. Just like Hindutva is a pan-Hindu movement.
Yes but Pakistan crystallised that phenomenon.
I disagree with you about Saudi. I think Saudi–and the GCC more broadly– are also looking for an “off-ramp”.
Don’t forget that Pakistan has the second largest Shia population after Iran. Pakistan has played its cards well. We condemned the assassination of the Supreme Leader but we’ve also been supportive of the GCC. We’ve also managed not to upset the US.
UAE has already gone full Israeli camp. Now they cannot afford a hostile Iran 50 kms from across the gulf, their entire economic model is under threat
Saudi is vary of joining the Israeli side openly but they are egging Trump on behind the scenes. If Trump gets frustrated and decides to abandon ship right now, these countries are going to be left holding the bag, regimes will change and so will maps.
Situation is very delicate at this point.
Pakistan should seek to replace the US security apparatus in the GCC with itself. These guys invested trillions in the US to keep war away and still got war. They can pay big bucks.
as I have said earlier the Arabs will make official peace with Israel.
eventually, Pakistan will normalise with Israel, as this is what the elites want. the masses will get suitable message from the maulvis proded by Saudis.
If Pakistan replaces US in gulf, will they fight against Iran? gulf Arabs fighting Iran is a real possibility.
To be honest how is this not a defeat for Israel?
Like in 1956; it engaged in a bad war with England and France, which resulted in the latter two being eclipsed forever.
How is this not a 1956 moment? Even if the Yanks seize the islands; how will they not stop the Straits shutting down or every desalination plant in the regime from blowing up?
The Iranians seem to have comprehensively won this tbh.. and now negotiations are in earnest.
How is the American public not going to see this as Israelâs war
Israel has won if Iran cannot attack it in any substantial measure for next 10 years. It’s issue is existential.
For US it’s a war to push china out of the region and also to support Israel and Arabs. Arabs were scared of Iran for sure.
Iran defines it’s Victory if it survives.
Pre Khomeini Iran had no issues with Israel. Khomeini stole a revolution and opposed Israel to spite the Arabs and seek leadership of the umma.
In 1956 both UK and French were distant powers, with no local collobrator. Here, Israel is not distant, US-Israel have Arab support, hence it is different.
Side point: Israel has many Persian Jews in its power structure, including one of their former presidents.
Israel is super-Ashkenazi.
The stated goal was regime change.
+1
Kabir note: Comment deleted for celebrating the death of the Supreme Leader. Completely unacceptable.
“Let the Jews have their home”
Brooklyn seems like a good place for it. US can establish Israel somewhere in the vicinity of New York. USA can even ban immigration for 10 years and just take a million Israeli immigrants every year. High IQ Jewish immigrants will boost GDP per capita (which is all that matters apparently) and add human capital value. No more hiding in bunkers or living in fear of war. Finally a Palestinian state is made, and peace is achieved.
I disagree with you on this. Israel has a right to exist–despite the fact that the nation was founded on the Nakba.
But Israel must exist within recognized borders. The West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem must form a Palestinian state.
The alternative is one secular democratic state in Israel/Palestine. This state would of course not be “Jewish” and there would be no special privileges for Jews.
yes if both sides want a River to the Sea state then they have to work out its contours that benefit all
The Palestinians have consistently accepted the right of Israel to exist within its recognized 1967 borders. Israel has no right to the West Bank, Gaza or East Jerusalem.
It is Israel that has made the two state solution impossible. The only alternative is the current status quo (Apartheid) or a secular democratic state in Israel/Palestine.
IIRC it was the “right of return” demand that doomed the Arafat-Barak talks under Clinton. If it had been only about borders, East Jerusalem, and no-settlements, they might have produced a peace deal back then.
I don’t think Israel was ever serious about two states. You can’t continue moving Jewish settlers onto the West Bank and claim that you are working towards a two state solution.
Anyway, the two state solution is dead. Let’s not be delusional. The only alternatives now are the current status quo or a secular democratic state. But that secular democratic state would by definition not have any special privileges for Jews.
2 state solution where Judea and Samaria is in Palestine kind of negates the whole point of Zionism.. what’s the point of beaches when there are probably better beaches throughout the Med and world
“Judea and Samaria” is Zionist terminology. The world calls that area the Occupied West Bank.
The West Bank is outside Israel’s recognized borders (as is East Jerusalem). Even Israel hasn’t attempted to annex the West Bank. Probably because then they would be legally obliged to give citizenship to the Palestinian residents of the area which would then mess up the Jewish majority of the country.
Judea and Samaria sounds nicer than West Bank tbh
No state has a right to exist, people do. Sovereignty of a country is just guaranteed under interntional law, it has nothing to do with morality.. but that post WW2 order has now collapsed and with that any pretense of any rights accorded to states. People get shocked when I say this but this will be normal by 2030.
In any case, Israel is not viable due to several factors. It’s a small Jewish majority amongst a sea of Muslim majority states. They are mostly foriegn settlers replacing indigenous people violently and they feel the need to expand to guarantee their security and also religiously. They also fully act like a western outpost which is not viable long term with the decline of the west. So whether it’s 10, 20 or 50 years from now, I forsee the same fate as the Pieds Noirs in Algeria – they lost their colony and migrated back to their homeland. Israelis may also do the same and migrate to Europe, USA or Argentina. I heard they already have a back up plan to settle in Patagonia.
I don’t think Patagonia is real tbh..
I’ll have to disagree with you.
Sovereignty of nation-states is a basic cornerstone of international law. There are generations of people who have been born and raised in Israel.
We can’t wish them away.
It’s absolutely true that Israel is a settler colonial state and that European Jews are not the natives of the land. But now an “Israeli” identity does exist.
My preferred solution (not that I matter particularly since I’m neither Palestinian nor Israeli) is a secular democratic state from the Mediterranean to the Jordan. Jews would not have any special privileges.
I am not advocating anything though, just predicting the obvious. The era of solving things peacefully has been set back at least another 30-40 years after the Gaza genocide. Israel also does not have the numbers to overtake its nieghbours demographically so what is even their long term plan being belligerent like this? The country is run by extremists that fully take US support for granted, but that US support may not exist 10 years from now and they will be in big trouble.
Jewish-Americans are particularly influential among the baby boomers, their demographic strength, economic and cultural achievements peak in that cohort. The stars aligned for them, but my guess is things will return to “normal” levels of scepticism among millennials/gen z , the clock is running out. Maybe Israeli emigres can make the salt flats of the Kutch peninsula bloom đ
the Jewish people and Palestinians can co-exist
the Jewish people and Palestinians can co-exist
Zionist and Palestinians CANNOT co-exist
You need to read the Torah/Bible
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.ââ
Zionists aren’t usually religious?
Zionists arenât usually religious?
Maybe, but they use the Bible/Torah for their own ends
Netanyahu justified the killing of Gaza residents during the Israel-Hamas conflict b ..
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-cites-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings/articleshow/104802548.cms
No more hiding in bunkers or living in fear of war. Finally a Palestinian state is made, and peace is achieved
Quite a good possibility after this war has ended.
A mass exodus of high IQ in demand people going to happen.
from where?
@Kabir; that was an unnecessary deletion. You can also modify the offending bit and keep the rest of the comment, especially when it is a new commentator.
It’s my thread right? I have zero tolerance for celebrating the death of the Supreme Leader. That’s absolutely disgusting.
it may be your thread but you also must be judicious in how you moderate. simply remove the offending lines especially when it’s a new commentator who may not be fully aware of the rules.
I’m sorry but celebrating the death of the Supreme Leader is just something that disgusts me on a visceral level.
I will just edit out the offending lines next time.
he’s not the Pope for Heaven’s Sake
He’s not the Pope but definitely someone revered by most Shias.
specially for former_brown who thinks the the Gulf will play nice with US after the war is over.(last bit on youtube)
Trump administration has ‘no coherent objective’ in Iran war:Former US colonel
https://youtu.be/F1ZOx4PBdTM?t=439
yes it is very tough to “iterate.”
well! we can wait and watch.
but why is Iran talking to US ?.
looks like USA and Israel will have separate deals with Iran!! after all Jews have to live with Arabs and Persians. USA can and will walk away.
I just saw a Al Jazeera clip, where a Bahrain official said that mossad is in Bahrain helping them with security.
with the current regime in Iran, gulf states are under risk. in any false flag or mischief hit on Iran, gulf states are collateral .
about the YouTube clip. we see lots of mid ranked US officers talking. while they might have competencies in battle field, I am not sure if they have long-term view.
If they were so smart, why did they not become Generals?!
but why is Iran talking to US ?.
You got a source that says IRAN is talking to US.
CNN says “Trump says Vance and Rubio are participating in talks with Iran to end war“
And you believe Trumps claims
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/iran-war-us-israel-trump-03-25-26
yes lots of flailing about by the Yanks right now
is Iran speaking?
apparently, yes. they also need peace to survive. they will settle for a relaxation of sanctions, inspection of their facilities. in the extreme, autonomy for kurdish areas.
further they need to mend their fences in the neighbourhood. four countries have thrown out their ambassadors.
Iran has apparently rejected Trump’s proposal presented by a “friendly regional intermediary” (which I guess means Pakistan).
https://www.dawn.com/live/iran-israel-war
well the US is sending marines.
I’m definitely not blaming Iran for not trusting the US.
You removed my whole comment and that will result in others misunderstanding me.
I am glad that the Pakistan is being the mediator of peace. Hopefully they will learn that they will have to live with the others with what they got!
Most of my best folks here in the states are Iranian. I shed a tear when the American army bombed and killed a school full of little girls and I ache for the common Iranian folk. I heard first hand how the Shii’te regime enforces it will from my Iranian friends who are of Kurdish, Persian, Turkic, and Turkman ethnicities. How the regime constantly tries to eradicate the sub-cultures within to establish a truly monolithic state.
It seems like societies that are monolithic tend to not grasp the fact that there will always be others and you will have to live with it. Don’t think that we forgot about Jews being pushed around and harassed in the region prior to the formation of the state of Israel.
Kabir, this will be my last interaction with your posts. You don’t seem to be areasonable person who can appreciate others point of view.
Ruthvik we recommend you post this comment on “Is Hormuz, Israel’s Suez” thread as we are the moderators there.
Israel engaged in several documented false flag ops to lure Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews to Israel
I removed your comment because you seemed to be celebrating the death of the Supreme Leader. I find that disgusting on a visceral level. He was someone who was revered by the entire Shia world. Regardless of your personal views on him, assassinating the head of state of a sovereign nation is against international law. If you want to justify that, then all bets are off and any country with sufficient power can assassinate any leader they don’t like.
“Don’t think that we forgot about Jews being pushed around and harassed in the region prior to the formation of the state of Israel”– Israel was founded on the Nakba–the dispossession of the Palestinian people. The Palestinians are the natives of the land.
I have no problem “appreciating other’s points of views” but I will not tolerate anti-Pakistan comments or personal trolling.
Outside of my threads, people say the vilest anti-Pakistan things and I have to live with it. But at least I can control my own threads.
I feel the Pakistan tilt has definitely shifted in BP with Qureshis’s return?
There’s definitely more balance.
there is speculation that vance, witkof, jared were in india before proceeding to pakistan. pgurus, and the three generals are saying this openly. elbridge colby was also in delhi.
very interesting.
what for?
India seems to be playing a role much bigger than what is being seen.
If there had been no Israel visit & post-Sindoor fiasco (where Trump was denied credit); India would have been THE pivotal player in all this.
It is now Pakistan flanked by Ummah (Egypt, Turkey, probably by Malaysia).
This is Pakistanâs Destiny becoming Manifest tbh thanks to Modi & Nethanyahu.
It was interesting the late Ayatollahâs favourite country was Pakistan.
Wealth doesnât just bring respect; the impoverished scientist who served mankind is revered far more than the billionaire who didnât.
The Ambanification of India is not a good sign, which the current govt encourages. Money isnât the only deliverance of respect, wisdom is.