๐ Reflections on Kabir, Afridi, and the Compact of Coexistence
The recent incident involving Kabirย / Bombay Badshah / Honey Singh, and the orchestrated drama around his entrapment has, quite unexpectedly, become a catalyst for deeper discussion on Brown Pundits. While none have chosen to focus on analytics (โ2,000 daily visitorsโโthank you very much:-), the real story lies in how this drama has exposed, yet again, the deep ideological fissures within South Asian identity; especially in the India-Pakistan-Muslim triad.
Letโs begin by being honest: Brown Pundits, for all its digressions into Sri Lanka, Nepal, or Bangladesh, is still primarily a blog about India and Pakistan, and more crucially, about Indian and Pakistani Muslims. This is a feature, not a bug. The origins of the blog lie in the Sepia Mutiny, a scattered band of intellectually independent thinkers questioning dogma from every direction (which started in 2004 and if we are a “daughter blog” that we means have 20+yrs of intellectual antecedents on the Brownet), and it has now matured into one of the few platforms willing to wrestle with the ideological ambiguities at the heart of the subcontinent.
๐ง Kabirโs Point: Brotherhood, Boundaries, and the Big Choice
Kabir made an astute, if difficult, observation: that he views Indian Muslims as โbrothersโ, but does not feel the same about Pakistani non-Muslims.
This sounds contradictory until one understands the emotional exhaustion of watching Muslims oscillate between claiming ummah-hood when convenient, and weaponizing liberal values when needed. Itโs a cognitive dissonance that creates what I can only call the moral coexistence trap: the idea that Muslims, especially in India, demand maximum accommodation, of their food (their nauseating right to murder Gau Mata on Bharat’s sacred soil itself), Faith, festivals, and foreign affiliations, while rarely extending the same pluralistic courtesy in return.
And then thereโs that infamous Shahid Afridi clip, the one where he smashed his television after watching an Aarti, being performed. To many of us, that wasnโt just a cringe-inducing moment of bigotry; it begged a real question: Why do Indian cricketers continue to shake hands with Hinduphobes Hindu-hating men like Afridi and his ilk (the Pakistan cricket team)? At what point does tolerance become indulgence?
๐ฉ The Compact of Indian Minorities: Understand It or Leave It
Hereโs the hard truth: India is becoming a Hindu nation; not in the theocratic sense of Saudi Arabia, but in the civilizational, cultural, and aesthetic sense. The train has left the station. And everyone; Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs, Parsis, even Christians and some liberal Bollywood Muslims, has understood the compact: accept the saffronization of the public sphere, live your private truth, and be part of the greater whole.
There is no shame in adapting to that compact. I have done it myself. As a non-Muslim, I realized that I could either spend my life as a second-class citizen in the Ummah or evolve, Hindu-fy, Dharma-fy, de-Islamize, and embrace the broader civilizational arc that India represents (Aurangzeb and the Mughals are not a hill I will die on but Biryani maybe).
And letโs be blunt: in India, everyone is number one except the Muslimsโnot because of oppression, but because Muslims have failed to negotiate the terms of being a minority in a non-Islamic state. The Sikhs have managed it. The Jains have managed it. The Christians have found their way. But Muslims still demand parity on their terms; aashiq-e-Rasool one day, secular warrior the next.
๐บ Kashmir, Identity, and Moral Consistency
And this brings us to Kashmir. If the Ummah is so sacred, if the brotherhood of Islam is paramount, then by all means, let India relinquish Kashmir. But then the burden of choice falls squarely on Indian Muslims: choose Hindu India or Muslim Pakistan and let it be a final choice. There can and should be no space for Islam in the public space of India; this was Nehru & Gandhi’s fatal mistake, they didn’t demand a complete Partition (like Greece-Turkey). Either one separates completely or not at all. One cannot wave the flag of pan-Islamism and then expect Indian secularism to shield that flag from scrutiny.
The hypocrisy here is no longer tolerable to anyoneโleft, right, or centre. Muslims are not being asked to give up Islam. But they are being asked to give up the illusion that Islam can demand liberal tolerance while offering none in return.
๐ Partition 2.0? Or Integration 2.0?
What we need, perhaps, is a Partition of the Mind. Letโs stop pretending that everyone has equal emotional stakes in every narrative. Let Muslims who are committed to India fully integrate, do Aarti, eat prasad, learn Sanskrit, embrace the Vedas if they want to, and let those who feel emotionally tied to Pakistan or pan-Islamism leave, or at least admit their divided loyalties.
And for non-Muslim Pakistanis, the choice is even clearer. Learn from what Sindhi Hindus did in 1947: migrate, adapt, and embrace the civilization that accepts you, even if imperfectly. Stop pretending Pakistan will ever love you back. It wonโt. It canโt. It was never designed to.
๐ญ Final Thought: On Blogs, Battles, and Betrayals
Ironically, itโs Kabirโs betrayal, his โentrappedโ moment, his nearly forced exit, that may have revitalized Brown Pundits. In rejecting him, we were perhaps reacting not just to his views, but to the mirror he held up to all of us. A mirror that asked uncomfortable questions: What does it mean to be Indian? To be Muslim? To be post-Muslim? To be culturally Hindu? These are questions no one wants to ask, because the answers force us into binary truths weโd rather avoid.
But we must ask them. And we must ask them on the blog, in the open, without fear or favour.
After all, if Brown Pundits is to continue being the premier site for South Asian ideological discourse, we must earn that title; not just through analytics, but through moral clarity. Kabir may have almost left (for the 10th time), but the questions he raised remain.
Muslims don’t have a problem with being a “minority in a non-Islamic state”. I am from the US. You (XTM) are British. You know that many Muslims–from all over the world not just Pakistan– immigrate to Western countries and become patriotic, law-abiding citizens. It’s not as if Muslim Americans are insisting that Shariah be practiced in the US (This is a right-wing fantasy). I believe Britain’s current Home Secretary is of Pakistani origin.
The point is that though all these Western countries are Christian majority, they are constitutionally secular states. To give another example, Indians (even non-Muslims) move to the Gulf for work. They accommodate to living in Islamic authoritarian states. And by and large they do fine.
Indian Muslims are Indian citizens. Advocating for them to leave India (forcefully?) is advocating ethnic cleansing, which is not a tenable position in 2025. Your advice to Pakistani non-Muslims is also misplaced. I live in Pakistan. I know Pakistani non-Muslims. By and large they are patriotic Pakistani citizens. They appreciate the country that feeds them, sends them to school etc. Non-Muslims even serve in the Pakistan Army. Religion is no bar on patriotism.
Finally on Shahid Afridi: I believe that he smashed his TV (which I’m not defending) not because an aarti was being performed on TV but because his daughter imitated that ritual in front of him. A Muslim girl performing a Hindu ritual would be considered distasteful in many Pakistani families though of course his reaction was over the top. That said, he has the right to parent his children the way he sees fit.
Also for the record: The Ummah is not a really a big factor in my own thinking. I was referring more to the feeling among many Pakistani Muslims that Indian Muslims are our brothers. It’s not a deeply held personal conviction.
i have immense respect for my non-Muslim co-citizens (my tablawala is Christian) and would never question their patriotism.
That is fine but it is also right for the Indian Players to stop shaking Hands with Pakistani players.
That is disgraceful.
You end up justifying every behaviour; but why should liberal democracies be hijacked by illiberal minorities.
I am not Muslim btw fwiw.
Your โliberal valuesโ expire within the borders of Pakistan but explode outside of it. India doesnโt need to do ethnic cleansing; it simply to Hindufy a lot more.
I didn’t say you were Muslim. I said you were British. And as such you know that many British Muslims are assimilated. They are not pushing Shariah in the UK.
India is a constitutionally secular state. As long as Indian Muslims are obeying the law of the land, the way they choose to practice their religion should not be an issue. Of course, India is free to declare itself a Hindu Rashtra but that will take constitutional amendments.
Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. It’s not particularly controversial to believe that countries should be judged on the basis of what is written in their constitutions.
As for Indian players not shaking hands with Pakistani players, this is against all norms of sportsmanship. India can choose not to play with Pakistan. That’s their right. But if they play they cannot be rude and petty. Anyway, PCB has taken this issue up with the ICC.
I wouldnโt shake hands with someone who proudly smashes a TV over an Aarti; thatโs not just intolerance, itโs fanatical behaviour.
Itโs exhausting to constantly wade through technicalities while the moral rot is in plain sight.
And frankly, some of the public rhetoric coming out of British Muslim circles hasnโt exactly been a beacon of pluralism either. Letโs not pretend this is a one-way street.
Shahid Afridi is a conservative Muslim. He’s Pashtun and they generally tend to be more conservative than Punjabis (this is a stereotype but it holds as a generalization).
He was upset that his daughter was practicing a non-Muslim ritual. I agree his action was over the top. If my daughter (or son) was imitating a non-Muslim ritual, I would just nicely but firmly tell them that we are Muslim and we don’t do such things. But as a parent it is his right to parent his child the way he wants.
As for British Muslims: Would it not be fair to say that the vast majority are law-abiding citizens who are not causing the UK any problems?
Weโre not discussing the majority โ weโre talking about the minority of British Muslims, whose actions have had disproportionately destructive consequences.
Regardless of that, the Indian cricket team was right to draw a moral line and not shake hands with people, who proudly smash a TV over a Hindu ritual. Thatโs not just โconservative parenting.โ Thatโs an act of religious hostility in a pluralist world.
If youโre caveating that behaviour, trying to rationalise it instead of condemning it, then yes, youโre indirectly affirming the very sectarian impulses that feed into Pakistanโs deeper ideological crisis. Thatโs not a stereotype. Thatโs a pattern.
Shahid Afridi is not even on the Pakistan cricket team anymore. The refusal to shake hands has much more to do with Pahalgam than anything else.
Also apparently the Indian captain shook hands with the Pakistani captain and with Mohsin Naqvi (PCB chairman) at the tournament’s opening ceremony. He was viciously trolled back in India and that led to the change in policy.
This is relevant here:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1942210/pak-vs-ind-a-serious-crisis-brews-behind-pakistan-cricket-boards-letter-to-icc
Shahid Afridi is a right wing populist. I’m really not interested in defending him at length. But I will say that any parent has the right to parent their child exactly how they please (short of child abuse).
More gems from these Pakistani heroes:
Shoaib Akhtar
โIt is written in our scriptures that Ghazwa e Hind will take place. The river in Attock will be coloured red twice with blood. Forces from Afghanistan will reach till Attock. Then after that forces will rise from Shamal Mashriq, different contingents will arrive from Uzbekistan etcโฆthis refers to Khorasan, a historical region which extended till Lahore. Later those forces will conquer Kashmir, and then, inshallah, they will march onwards โ
Waqar Younis
“The best thing, what Rizwan did, Mashallah, he offered the Namaz on the ground surrounded by Hindus, that was really something very very special for me.โ
Some more Islamic crusader comments as well from this fellow.
Abdul Razzak
โIf one marries Aishwarya with the intention of having pious kids, it is not possible.โ
Saeed Anwar
โThere are 6 billion non-Muslims. They are all going to burn in hellfire. Itโs Muslimsโ duty to save them by converting them into Islam,โ
Ahmed Shehzad
In 2014, while walking back to the dressing room after a match vs Sri Lanka, Shehzad was seen on camera telling Tillakaratne Dilshan (who was born to a Buddhist mother) things like: โif you are a nonโMuslim and you turn Muslim โฆ straight to heaven. Then be ready for the fire.โ
Current Pakistani international team Faheem Ashraf
In 2025 posted image of pakistani soldier applying sindur to Bharat mata.
Miandad is co-father-in-law of Dawood Ibrahim.
Shame on BCCI for playing cricket with Pakistan after Pahalgam. How many Russian artists and atheletes are playing in the west? Win, lose doesn’t matter, it’s not about catharsis. Don’t play with Pakistan. Complete Boycott till dog whistling Munir is in power.
Shahid Afridi Quotes
โIndia carries out terrorism itself, is responsible for killing its own people, and then puts the blame on Pakistan,โ alleged Afridi while talking to local media reporters in Pakistan.
โThe terrorists continued to kill people in Pahalgam for an hour, and not a single Indian soldier out of 8 lakhs showed up. But when they did, they blamed Pakistan,โ Afridi claimed.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/sports/shahid-afridi-netizens-school-pakistan-cricketer-afridi-on-his-controversial-comments-indians-are-responsible-for-killing-of-their-own-people/articleshow/120689188.cms?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Shahid Afridi’s Behaviour towards Hindus
https://www.financialexpress.com/sports/shahid-afridi-pressured-me-to-convert-multiple-times-former-pakistani-cricketer-danish-kaneria/3776619/
Thank you
Just flagging that this account resumed activity right as the BBโHS profile went quiet. If itโs the same user, thatโs fine but be aware that Iโve consolidated all your recent comments into one link for tracking.
If the pattern returns, especially obsessive targeting of Kabir or Pakistan, moderation will begin accordingly.
That said, Iโve left the cricketer comment up. I personally agree: the Indian team shouldnโt be shaking hands with bigots.
Keep it sharp, not repetitive. Thanks.
Not me. Don’t know if it is this “HS”.
But good to see another patriotic Indian on this site.
This is like saying apartheid South Africa should be applauded for every racist act because with each such act they are fulfilling what is written in their constitution, while the US should be condemned for racist acts because they are falling short of the ideals in their constitution.
Why not step back and look at what the very constitutions say about the peoples who fashioned them, adopted them, and kept them?
excellent point
This point has been made to Mr Humanities multiple times, but he thinks he’s making a ‘clever’ argument with this constitution balderdash.
the spam filter on the site is being hyper-active; this went to spam
This is a personal attack. Back off.
It is not particularly controversial to believe that countries can only be judged on the basis of the ideals that they profess. I really don’t know why this goes over everyone’s head.
Pakistan is not apartheid South Africa. That’s actually a disgusting and anti-Pakistan comparison.
We are an “Islamic Republic”. We have a right to be one.
If India chose to become a Hindu Rashtra, it would be foolish of me to judge it by the standards of a constitutionally secular state.
The purpose of the analogy was not to say that Pakistan shares similarities with apartheid South Africa, but to highlight the absurdity of ending your analysis at whether a state is living up to its professed ideals, rather than pushing further and interrogating the merits of those professed ideals.
Yes, the peoples of Pakistan professed the ideal of religious majoritarianism, and Pakistani society and state have fulfilled that ideal. The peoples of India professed the ideal of religious neutrality and Indian society and state have struggled to fulfill that ideal.
The real question is what ideal should be professed? Do you support the ideal of religious majoritarianism or do you support the ideal of religious neutrality? Yes, peoples of a given territory have the right to choose which of these ideals to profess, but which one do you yourself prefer?
I am on record as saying that I prefer that states are constitutionally secular. Please do not forget I am a United States citizen. I grew up as a minority in a constitutionally secular state.
However–whether I like it or not– the constitutional framers of Pakistan have chosen to make the country an “Islamic Republic”. There is no movement in the country to reverse that. Nor will there ever be (barring some bizarre leftist revolution).
My disagreement with you and others on this forum is that I believe that judging a religious state by the standards of a secular one is intellectually foolish.
If India constitutionally declares itself a Hindu Rashtra, I will never hold it to the standards of a secular state. However, while it is still a secular state (on paper), I have the right to continue pointing out the way that the current Hindutva Regime fails Muslims.
Both states, and all states, regardless of their professed ideals, can be judged by universal criteria. An Indian Muslim who faces discrimination for practicing his faith in the Republic of India suffers harm and indignities that all liberal minded people should feel concerned about. If tomorrow Modi manages to cobble together enough votes to rename it the Hindu Republic of India and the Indian Muslim faces the same discrimination, he would still suffer harm and indignities that all liberal minded people should feel concerned about. The harm and suffering he endures is not wiped away by adding “Hindu” in the preface to the name of the country. This is an absurd notion that makes a mockery of fundamental liberal values.
No Western liberal government or NGO or academic that assesses other countries in these mattets employs different standards for different countries on account of their professed ideals. Iran, for example, executes gay men. None of these entities who evaluate countries on their human rights record ever give Iran a free pass on account of Iran being an Islamic republic and Islam not approving of gay men. Yes, Iran’s actions may be internally consistent; they may logically flow from their professed ideals. None of that makes it any less egregious when the Iranians kill a man because of who he loves. When the professed ideals are themselves misguided, focusing on how well the regime in question fulfills the misguided ideals is absurd.
While it is true that Pakistan excels in fulfilling its professed ideals, what good is that if in the grand scheme of things those professed ideals are not ideals we believe to be good or preferable? Yes, kudos to them for their internal consistency and unyielding zeal, but if the target is not good then overall that consistency and zeal are in service of something we do not think is good or preferable.
You are not going to change my mind on this. It is intellectually consistent to judge countries on the basis of what is written in their constitutions. Judging a Hindu Rashtra by the standards of a secular state would be foolish at best.
Pakistan needs to treat its non-Muslim citizens according to the Pakistani Constitution. It doesn’t do that and many of us are fighting for the rights of minorities. But holding an Islamic Republic to the standards of a secular state is absurd.
Is Israel violating Basic Laws?
My point is that 20% of Israel’s population is not Jewish. 20% of the population of a democratic state cannot be treated as second class citizens. That’s not how democracies work.
And that is within Israel proper. Israel Occupies the West Bank. Gaza and East Jerusalem.
Pakistan is NOT Occupying anyone else’s territory. GB and AJK are disputed but no country other than India calls them “Pakistan Occupied”.
The Arab population of Israel have the same rights as anyone else.
Sure, sell the Zionist lies elsewhere.
I have deeply researched the Israel Palestine conflict over many years. Don’t peddle this nonsense to me.
Israel isnโt violating Basic Law; it is operating exactly to its constitution.
Pakistanโs non-Muslims should chafe and accept Paksitanโs constitution but Israeli Arabs should resist?
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
They arenโt treated as second class citizens under Israeliโs constitution ..
Israel is Occupying the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. The entire world acknowledges that that is Occupied Palestinian Territory. Are you going to disagree?
Pakistan is not Occupying anyone’s territory.
Pakistani non-Muslims have the right to vote. There are Hindu representatives elected to Parliament on reserved seats.
By the way, “Israeli Arab” is an Israeli term. The rest of the world calls them Palestinian Citizens of Israel.
but even so the Palestinians Citizens of Israel have it easy; we aren’t talking abotu the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank..
I have done extensive research on Palestine. Let me quote from a piece I wrote. This is about the treatment received by Haneen Zoabi–a Palestinian Citizen of Israel and a member of the Knesset:
The full piece is here:
https://kabiraltaf.substack.com/p/review-goliath-life-and-loathing
Sorry but on this issue you are simply wrong and your opinion is not supported by the facts.
Kabir, youโre on very thin ground here.
You argue that each country must be judged by its own constitutional framework โ thus, India by its Nehruvian ideals and Pakistan by its Islamic character.
But then, inconsistently, you claim that Israeli Arabs โ a term you refuse to use, despite insisting on domestic legal definitions elsewhere โ are โoppressed.โ Your own logic would require you to accept Israelโs domestic definitions, yet here you break convention.
You cite Haneen Zoabi as evidence of democratic failure โ while ignoring far graver injustices, such as the Asia Bibi case in Pakistan, which involved blasphemy law, mob violence, and state-backed persecution of a non-Muslim.
If you canโt resolve this internal contradiction, itโs hard to see your contributions as anything other than ideologically driven deflection. This risks turning your presence into little more than Islamist rhetorical disruption โ not reasoned debate.
To be clear, we are not discussing the occupied territories, but Israel proper โ where your standards shift inexplicably.
Please clarify your position, or Iโll consider a moderation pause. This platform requires consistency, not selective outrage.
I’ve never defended Pakistan’s Blasphemy law.
I stand by my opinions on Israel. I’ve deeply researched the Israel-Palestine conflict over many years. The linked piece is a review of Max Blumenthal’s book. Blumenthal is a Jewish-American journalist.
I am not an “Islamist”. I’ve repeatedly made this clear. An “Islamist” is someone who advocates for Shariah Law, which I have never done in my life. I am a center-left Pakistani.
You can moderate however you like. I have no control over that. What you cannot do is force me to change my views.
Btw Iโve put all of your other comments on hold until you substantively address this.
You can call yourself a liberal who accepts Iran executing gay men because it is in accordance with their professed ideals, but nobody, including every other western liberal organization in the world, is buying that nonsense.
Pakistan’s professed ideals are bad. That these are their professed ideals speaks volumes about the peoples of Pakistan. Them living up to it is not a good thing.
I’m not getting into a discussion with you about what Iran does or does not do.
For the last time (because this is now getting increasingly repetitive): Judging Islamic Republics (or Hindu Rashtras) by the standards of secular states is intellectually foolish.
I don’t want to belabor this point further.
However, let me ask you this question: Does Israel have the right to be a “Jewish State”? If your answer is yes than Pakistan has the right to be an “Islamic Republic”. If your answer is no than at least you get points for being intellectually consistent.
I have already acknowledged that the peoples of various territories have the right to profess whatever ideals they want to, including those of religious majoritarianism.
But having the right to profess the ideal of religious majoritarianism does not mean that one ought to profess such ideal.
And we are all free to cast judgment on those who do profess the ideal of religious majoritarianism. And I, along with other honest and intellectually consistent liberals, do just that. Professing the ideal of religious majoritarianism speaks volumes about the persons and peoples who do that. It is a bad ideal to profess and reflects poorly on the peoples who do so.
I want Kabir to reply to my latest post as I am not convinced about his intellectual consistency right now
I’m not getting into a normative discussion with you. The point is simply that if Israel has the right to be a “Jewish state”, Pakistan has the right to be an “Islamic Republic”. India has the right to be a Hindu Rashtra. But it needs to declare itself one. Otherwise, I will continue to judge it by the standards of a constitutionally secular state–since it remains one (on paper at least).
You are free to judge me however you like. I don’t know you personally. You are a voice on the Internet. Your opinion of me honestly makes zero difference to my life. But you are not qualified to give certificates of liberalism.
You place too much importance on constitutions, I guess because you are an American and the US Constitution is indeed extremely important in that country and foundational to its sense of identity and propriety. Almost everywhere else in the world this is not the case. Traditions, common practices, and culture are much more important. The constitutions in most of the world (Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America) are more like settlements or compacts to be consulted by the ruling establishments, not venerated. Incidentally, Donald Trump is behaving this way, riding roughshod over US constitutional norms while acting like a monarch.
Hoju
This is like saying apartheid South Africa should be applauded for every racist act because with each such act they are fulfilling what is written in their constitution
You are ignoring the Elephant in the World (Room), ISRAEL
Israel is a Jewish Apartheid state, much much worse than South Africa. Pakistan does not even come close..
The UN inquiry sates that Israel is committing GENOCIDE
Worse the US says it is against the Law to compare Israel to the other European country that committed GENOCIDE
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, a UN inquiry says
https://www.npr.org/2025/09/16/nx-s1-5543246/israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza-a-un-inquiry-says
I. agree btw that genocide is taking place in Gaza
I have no love for Israel.
But intellectually the point is: If Israel has the right to be a “Jewish and Democratic state” (never mind that that is an oxymoron even within Israel Proper) why does Pakistan not have the right to be the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”?
Clearly people on this forum are not intellectually consistent.
By Hindufying, I hope that it does not entail India becoming a Hindu version of Islamic republics. That will not end well for anyone, including and perhaps especially Hindus. Religious extremism in Islamic republics have led to, more than anything, the death of Muslims and the restriction of their freedoms. Yes Afghanistan is an Islamic republic or emirate or whatever, but do you think the Muslims there are happy?
There are forms of paying homage to Dharmic civilization that I support, but not things that would significantly impede individual freedom. For example, giving foreign Hindus a right of return; using Dharmic aesthetics in government iconography; creating an association for Dharmic-majority countries; taking foreign dignitaries to places of Dharmic importance rather than the Taj Mahal; etc.
Afghanistan is not a good example
The Perfect example is Israel.
Afghanistan is not an Islamic Republic. It is an Islamic Emirate. Afghanistan was an “Islamic Republic” under Karzai and Ghani.
The reason foreign dignitaries are taken to the Taj Mahal is that–like or not– the Taj is seen as a symbol of India. It’s probably the only thing most foreigners know about India. Too bad that it’s a Muslim monument.
I mean your PM continues to give his Independence Day speech from the Lal Kila–another Muslim palace.
If everyone is so concerned about being “Dharmic”, surely the I-Day speech can be given from Nagpur.
To quote from a CNN article
With global anger mounting over the nearly two-year war in Gaza, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned Monday that Israel is facing a โkind of isolationโ that could last for years, and has no choice but to stand on its own.
As should bl (isolation). Israel is committing crimes against Humanity* This (Isolation) is despite US (and I think UK) laws against BDS (Boycott Divest and Sanction) The anger over Israel is palpable and deep in the US despite laws to prevent that expression. If one says anything in Public can have the anti-semitic canard and be cancelled, i.e.loose their job funding etc.
Anyway this is the way to do it, isolation. The same as Apartheid South Africa. That will cause economic collapse. Netanyahu is racing against time to accomplish a fait accompli
. i.e. Ethic Cleanse Gaza and possibly the West Bank .
*It appears many Indians do not condemn Israel because of their hate for Muslims
Netanyahu admits Israel faces prolonged โisolationโ over war in Gaza
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/15/middleeast/netanyahu-israel-isolation-intl
Absolutely. The Indian government doesn’t condemn Israel because Zionism and Hindutva both have Muslims as public enemy number one. Also, I believe India buys weapons from Israel.
India actually recently hosted Smotrich, whom even many European countries consider completely beyond the pale.
India’s Palestine policy is really pathetic. From being a country that was staunchly pro-Palestine it has now become completely Israel supporting.
The strike on Qatar got Modi to condemn Israel (though still not by name).
Thank you – yes .. I find the commentariat to fuel good pots.
For the first and the last time, I am not this “Honey Singh” you accuse me of.
That will be all.
sure ๐
You end up justifying every behaviour; but why should liberal democracies be hijacked by illiberal minorities.
Plenty of illiberal majorities in so called liberal democracies. eg the Tony Robinson movement in the UK.
Liberal Democracies are Liberal while the economy is doing well. As the economy sours it is dog eat dog/ There is No Unity in Diversity when the economy goes Bad.
Although I am nominally Hindu, I do not like this saffronized ideal you have for India, especially the encumberances it would put on individual freedom.
I do think it is OK and even good for India to pay some homage to Dharmic civilization. But I would do that differently and with a lighter touch that doesn’t limit individual freedom as much.
For example, your point about beef eating. I think historic instances of Muslims intentionally slaughtering cows near Hindu temples and even rubbing the blood of it inside etc is repulsive behavior. But today, if someone wants to produce and consume beef, they should be allowed to, just as they are allowed to do so with pork and chicken.
And this comes from someone who tries to adhere to a vegan diet for non religious ethical reasons. I think confining, harming, and killing sentient creatures for mere gustatory pleasure is sickening. But that is a conclusion for individuals to arrive at on their own, not something to be imposed by the weight of a religious majority.
Lastly, while I understand the desire from many for a “full” partition / population exchange, ultimately I don’t think this will solve much and regardless that is not the cards that we are dealing with. There is no changing the fact that India has a substantial Muslim minority. The goal should be to figure out how we can all live together and prosper.
I don’t think you’d find much disagreement with any of these points, even with the much maligned RSS for that matter.
I actually agree with you on both these points. Eating beef is not against the law in India. The majority (in a secular state) cannot impose their dietary preferences on the minority. There are Hindus (even in North India) who eat beef.
A “full” Partition/ population exchange amounts to ethnic cleansing. This is not tenable in 2025. More importantly, it goes against the vision that Pandit Nehru had of India as a state of all its citizens.
Is Pork allowed in Pakistan?
particularly in Tel Aviv and areas with Christian or Russian populations. A 1962 law prohibits the raising and slaughter of pigs, but it is not illegal for individuals to eat pork.
Lot of Similarities between Islamic and Jewish customs
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-effective-ban-economy-ministry-says-only-kosher-pork-imports-allowed/
Non-Muslims (ex. Chinese) can eat it.
Non-Muslims can drink alcohol.
Also you cannot compare India (which is still a secular state) to Pakistan.
If India becomes a Hindu Rashtra, they can of course ban beef.
Big breaking news –
Naxalites have surrendered.
One of the longest running insurgencies in India is dead.
Now only offshoots remain in Kashmir and the NE and even they are mostly dead.
The Indian republic marches on.
Incidentally, on the “handshaking” controversy:
Pakistan may be planning to withdraw from the Asia Cup. They canceled the pre-match press conference with the UAE.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1942441/asia-cup-pakistan-cancel-pre-match-press-conference-ahead-of-uae-encounter-as-crisis-deepens
I was at the barber shop yesterday and the guy who owns the shop (it’s a pretty upscale shop) was talking to my dad about the India Pakistan match. It was his opinion that as soon as the referee said that the Indians were not going to shake hands with the Pakistanis, the Pakistani captain should have said that then there was not going to be a match. We allowed our national honor to be insulted and that’s not right.
India has the choice not to play cricket with Pakistan. But money talks. BCCI doesn’t want to lose out on the Asia Cup’s revenue. Also apparently if a country refuses to play with another country at a multilateral tournament, it impacts their ability to host tournaments in their own country.
But if you are going to play, it is extremely rude and petty to humiliate your opponent like this. Pakistani cricketers are professionals doing their job. None of them were involved in Pahalgam. Incidentally, we have still not seen any credible evidence before the International Community that it was a Pakistan-sponsored act. Even if (for the sake of argument it was), it’s not like the Pakistan Army asks cricketers before sponsoring such an action.
didn’t India trash Pakistan?
You are supposed to shake hands both before and after the match. Apparently the referee asked the captains not to shake hands at the toss. At that point, Pakistan should have said “Fine, then no match” and walked away.
PCB about to cut off its own nose to spite their face, all over again.
The last time around, PCB tried whining about BCCI’s not honoring some supposed “MOU”, they ended up having to pay BCCI’s court costs.
This time around, if Pakistanis stupidly believe that BCCI needs the pennies of revenue from the Asia cup, it will lead them to once again overestimate their own importance and shoot themselves.
The only reason that the BCCI decided to participate in the Asia cup is because the revenue from this tournament is critical to its allies – the other Asian cricket countries – not just SL, Bang, AFG but also the newer ones -UAE, Nepal etc. What matters to the BCCI is not – as our Kabir bhai pompously believes – a handful of dollars that is merely a rounding error in the BCCI’s balance sheet. Its buying the continuing political patronage of the Asian boards which do desperately need that revenue.
If the PCB makes a big stink about ‘handshake-gate’ and disrupts the tournament, the BCCI can simply raise its hands and say, hey we didn’t do it, it was the Pakistanis.
This was the trap laid by the BCCI and it seems that the PCB is happily running right into it, and making it worse by feeding the froth of domestic pressure internally to ‘stand up for respect’.
This business of ‘defending Pakistani honour’ plays incredibly well for the domestic audience, allowing the temporary political cronies that run the PCB, to deflect criticism of their shitty performing team, and the naked crony corruption that is always ongoing at the PCB. So the incentives are skewed – Pakistan Cricket may not benefit from escalating this issue – but the PCB officials that make the decisions definitely do. Just as during that ill-advised lawsuit – if I recall correctly, the PCB hired and overpaid some London based Pakistani lawyers for gloriously mismanaging and losing the lawsuit. So even though the PCB lost, the cronies won.
This sort of self-inflicted disaster, in the name of ‘honor’ is completely similar to the other instances of IND-Pak conflict – because the incentives for the Pakistani military diverge from the nation-state and its citizens. So Pakistan can get bombed all over the place, from terrorist families in Bahwalpur, to decorated PAF personnel at airbases – but the leadership can lie to their people, claim they ‘successfully’ defended Pakistani sovereignty and appoint themselves failed marshal.
And this is why, like a broken record, I keep saying this – until the enslaved Pakistanis somehow manage to obtain Aazaadi and “self-determination” by freeing themselves from the clutches of the kleptocratic feudal zamindars Larping around with shiny medal covered uniforms, they are doomed to keep suffering.
Wanted to add, I do not think PCB have the balls neither the budget to try and attempt a ‘boycott’ of Asia cup. And they know it.
What’s underway is a massive PR shitstorm that they are trying to stoke and surf but in the end they’ll do what they have no choice but to do. Suck it up, hopefully with a figleaf of some kind.
Just as predicted, PCB made a big show of protesting and now are about to “surrender” and quietly play the game against UAE.
Its pathetic. But hey, it gives them the fig leaf they needed to paper over their “surrender”.
The irony is that this entire fake boycott drama only serves to highlight PCB’s fecklessness and impotency to the Cricket world, but Pakistanis will somehow see it as “taking a stand” and protecting their honor. Self-delusion is not just a cottage industry in the ‘land of the pure’ – its a 24/7/365 perpetual motion machine.
The offending referee apologized to the Pakistani manager and captain.
It is not the referee’s place to tell the team captains not to shake hands–whatever the Indian government’s policy.
I think what BCCI should have done is simply boycotted the Asia Cup and have hosted some “Vajpayee Cup” in its place.
Tell the other Asian boards – play the Asia Cup if you want or you can play this and you will get a share of the revenue and BCCI won’t keep anything.
To make up the numbers can just invite the likes of WI, NZ, SA who will be more than happy to send a B-C team at least.
Can even have an India A team like the Aussies used to have back in the day. These matches need not have T20I status and need not go in the stats but for the purpose of the tournament will be treated the same as the other T20I matches.
Ok, that’s just desi soap opera style fantasizing. Asia Cup is an established tournament that goes back years, with structured revenue sharing. Why should the BCCI blow it up when it can call the shots as it is?
It’s one thing to want to flaunt and gloat about BCCI’s clout in cricket. But you’re taking it way, way too far.
India has literally boycotted Asia Cup in the past.
And this was when India was so poor India needed Doordarshan to fund the team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Asia_Cup
that’s when it was just one of the equal-ish members of the Asia Cup, not the 800 pound gorilla it is today.
You are missing my point, of course India can boycott, the point is it doesn’t need to.
pakistan is boycotting. it’s a moot point now.
no they aint. They are pretending that they might. Its a fake figleaf drama.
We have apparently gotten the offending referee removed.
Your constantly calling Pakistanis “enslaved” is extremely offensive. The Pakistan Army is the only thing protecting Pakistan from Indian hegemony. Without our Army and our nuclear bomb we would have been a weak state subject to India’s designs.
Luckily India knows that if you bomb us we will bomb you right back.
enough with the threats Kabir
My point is only that if India doesn’t military attack Pakistan, Pakistan has no interest in militarily attacking India.
My “threats” are neither here nor there. I have no real power. But the Pakistan Army is certainly considering all eventualities and planning the next war. If war is forced on us we are ready.
But India DID bomb Pakistan and Pakistan was NOT ABLE TO bomb back due to the superior Indian AD.
The satellite imagery, the funeral processions, the videos all over social media, the acknowledgments by DGISPR point to that.
Where is the evidence of the corresponding damage on the Indian side?
for an “Indian Muslim” (Shi’ite) you certainly dislike Pakistan LOL
If a country does terrorist activities, they should be disliked. My religion does not come into it.
And India contributes to terrorism in Balochistan.
Two can play at this game.
That is an indigenous insurgency. India does not even share a border with Balochistan.
Sure, we are meant to believe you are not interfering. Sorry but try that nonsense on someone else.
What was Kulbushan Yadav doing in Balochistan? That too on a fake passport using a Muslim name? That man should be given the death penalty for trying to incite terrorism in Pakistan.
You do realize that Pakistan sent drones into Occupied Kashmir and Punjab.
We took down five of your planes as the entire world has acknowleged.
Don’t make military threats against a proper country–the Muslim world’s only nuclear power at that.
No one acknowledged “five planes”.
Shoe me ONE single international source which says “5 planes”. That is a complete Pakistani fabrication.
And drones are weak shit. They hardly did damage.
Even India sent multiple drones one of which crashed into Rawalpindi stadium stopping the PSL. Drones went as far as Karachi and Pashawar.
India bombed PAF bases and terrorist hideouts with missiles. Paksitan could do nothing in return.
Drones lol.
Donald Trump mentioned five planes.
Look the entire world knows we demolished five planes.
You can sell the Indian propaganda elsewhere.
The Islamic Republic of Pakistan will deter you. In the next war we will have better Chinese weapons. Don’t test us.
Fact check: Pakistan COULD NOT get the referee removed.
The ICC, whose chairman is Amit Shah’s son refused.
Pakistan is now boycotting the tournament lol.
As a self-proclaimed ‘liberal’ do you disagree with the assertion that Pakistanis in fact do not have the right to govern themselves and the Pakistan army is in charge?
Why is calling a spade, a spade, “offensive”?
a) I’m a centre-left Pakistani. My views align with Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz
b) Pakistan is a “hybrid regime”. I have never denied this. It was a hybrid regime under Imran Khan (who was brought to power by the Pakistan Army). It is a hybrid regime now under Shahbaz Sharif.
Pakistan Army “manages” elections. They shouldn’t do this but it’s reality.
Your use of the term “enslaved” is offensive.
You clearly have an anti-Pakistan animus.
One very interesting thing I have realized post “handshakegate” and also previously is that a lot of Pakistanis are genuinely surprised by the “new” behaviour of India.
Their argument is that terrorist activities etc took place in the 90s but cricket and ties continued.
What changed?
Here is what changed.
Decades of high growth vis a vis Pakistan (who are in economic stagnation) means India just has become more powerful vis a vis Pakistan. India will be the 3rd largest economy by next year and by mid century will be one of the global poles besides the USA and China.
Hence the attitude and viewpoint of most Indians vis a vis Pakistan is one of disdain and that affects policy now.
Also guys like Vajpayee and Manmohan who were born years before the creation of Pakistan did not really have that much venom against them.
Even the current Indian boomers while slightly more hawkish than the ones who came before are not totally disdainful towards Pakistan.
It is only when the millenials and onwards who have seen the brunt of terrorism as well as only seen Pakistan as a poorer country (and an inferior cricket/hockey team) come into power will Pakistanis see true disdain. Of course by that time India will have become even more powerful.
God help Pakistan then.
“God help Pakistan then”– We are a nuclear power. Don’t you dare threaten the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
India is never going to be a superpower. Neither the US nor China will ever allow it. You are completely and utterly delusional.
Not a question of “allow”.
India is already at 0.685 HDI.
India gets to 0.8+ HDI and with a 1.7 billion population, that is a superpower. India will reach that level in 15 years.
No one can stop that.
I agree that India will be the no 3 by mid century but will still be a superpower. No 1 or 2 is for the latter part of the century.
I know Pakistanis have this deep fear but no one can stop this growth, just like you haven’t been able to in the last 30 years.
India already has things like space programmes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, ICBMs which only three other countries have – USA, China and Russia.
And “atum bums” are useless when Pakistan is defeated by non-violent means, like making them pariahs in cricket.
You can keep denying all you like but you have seen the changes happen in your life and you will see it happening the rest of your life.
Good luck with that. China is never going to allow India to become a serious rival.
Pakistan will take you down if you become too big for your britches. We are not a piddly little country. We are a nuclear power and must be treated with respect.
India will not even get a permanent seat on the Security Council because no one wants you to get that seat.
You are completely delusional about how great you are. Reality is you are a poor country full of slums.
China cannot “allow or disallow” anything.
India has made:
Nuclear submarinesAircraft carriersICBMsMoon missionsAll without Chinese “allowance” and is part of 1 of 4 countries to have those.
Pakistan can’t even take down BLA/TTP who everyday send 10-20 Pakistani soldiers to their graves.
Pakistan IS a piddly little country.
Pakistanis are delusional about the gap between India and Pakistan. Reality is India is growing super fast (fastest growing major economy in the world) and is becoming richer.
Pakistan who is much poorer and has more slums with it’s anemic growth rate will remain stuck watching India grow in wealth and power.
Here are some stats with links (Although you will ignore it like you always do).
HDI:
India’s 2023 HDI of 0.685 is greater than China’s 2007 HDI of 0.680. So a 16 years gap.
Pakistan’s 2023 HDI of 0.544 is greater than India’s 2004 HDI of 0.538. So a 19 years gap.
Thing is India is growing faster.
India from 2013-2023 went from 0.615 to 0.685. An increase of 0.08
Pakistan in the same period went from 0.513 to 0.544. An increase of only 0.031.
That means the gap is increasing.
Check it out here:
https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/specific-country-data#/countries/IND
GDP pci:
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/IND/PAK
Ind’s went from 1.59 in 2015 to 2.88 in 2025
Pak’s from 1.54 to 1.58 in same period
Total stagnation
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/IND/PAK
Of course you will choose to ignore this and say something about “Islamic atum bum” so that’s fine.
But every year when the IMF releases its economic data and the UN its HDI data it will be posted here and you will see the gap growing.
Also India’s achievements will be posted here and again you can seethe.
Coming in the next 5 years:
Gaganyaan (Human spaceflight) – 4th independent country to do soBullet trainMade in India semiconductor (that is coming this year)Reminds me of this article by Kamila Shamsie:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/14/india.features116
The subtext was clear: a truly shining India would make Pakistan feel very dim by comparison
The Nation columnist Amina Jilani says: “Pakistan is loath to admit India even might be a growing power. In local idiom, we think we are both ‘same to same’.” – This explains Pakistani mentality
that’s a linear interpolation?
My point is that India is growing faster than Pakistan so the gap will grow.
India’s population growth/TFR is much lower than Pakistan so Pakistan’s GDP has to grow faster than India just to MAINTAIN the current difference between the GDP pci.
Because the denominator for Pak is growing faster the numerator also has to grow faster just to maintain the same level.
As long as India grows faster than Pakistan (or tbh even at the same rate or even a bit lower) the GDP pci gap will increase.
Now how much faster it grows depends on how the two countries grow.
But considering the economic structures of the two countries (investment rates/saving rates/fdi/security etc) India’s GDP will keep growing at a faster rate than Pakistan’s (and GDP pci even faster because India’s population growth rate is slower).
yes but life isn’t just linear interpolation btw. do read my posts
Quoting The Guardian from 2007?
In 2007, it was a Congress ruled India. There was been tremendous democratic backsliding in the last 11 years.
Wake up to reality.
The point wasn’t about Congress.
It was why Pakistanis underplay India’s economic growth vis a vis Pakistan even though stats by independent bodies show that quite a significant gap has opened up. Independent bodies like the IMF and WB.
The subtext was clear: a truly shining India would make Pakistan feel very dim by comparison
The Nation columnist Amina Jilani says: โPakistan is loath to admit India even might be a growing power. In local idiom, we think we are both โsame to sameโ.โ โ This explains Pakistani mentality
Because acknowledging Indian growth would mean acknowledging Pakistani failures.
Imagine the schoolmate you went with became rich and famous while you are still languishing at the same level.
Hence the denial.
Pakistanis won’t even admit that they are a country poorer than Bangladesh who has a higher GDP, higher GDP pci, higher HDI.
And even the cricket teams are at par.
Pakistani analysts like to believe they are closer to India who are the current world champions and the no 1 ranked team than Bangladesh (Pakistan is ranked 7, Bangladesh 8).
OK, economic growth is not everything. Cricket is neither here nor there.
Pakistan is the only nuclear armed state in the Muslim world. Bangladesh doesn’t have nukes. Until Sheikh Hasina was removed Bangladesh was effectively an Indian puppet.
The same institutions and publications that note India’s democratic backsliding and express concern over the treatment of religious minorities in India express even greater concern about Pakistan’s treatment of religious minorities and the status of democracy in Pakistan without employing any double standards on account of Pakistan being an Islamic republic. Since they are doing something which according to you is intellectually foolish by failing to hold Pakistan to a different standard, how reliable are these sources anyways?
Kabir calm
Disdain is…. accurate. Just look at how the Pakistani cricket team is so markedly inferior to their Indian counterpart. I mean, its not even close. But there is a massive lag in Pakistani perceptions catching up to reality – whether in cricket, or in other spheres.
LIke you said, many more rude awakenings await the Pakistani awaam and Allah help them cope. Because reality….is a …female canine.
No one gives a damn. We are a nuclear power and we are able to deter Indian hegemony. That is frankly the only thing that matters.
Certainly not able to deter Indian hegemony in cricket.
that’s true. India has just transformed the game.
So funny – one of Indiaโs coaches just walked in where I am. Momentarily I didnโt recognise him (I was distracted) and he was like hey Z..
Nice guy
You are in UAE?
yes
sweet.
does it?
The bottom line is Pakistan will never accept India’s hegemony in South Asia. This is an existential issue for the country. Every single patriotic Pakistani understands this.
All else is secondary.
And what do you define by “hegemony”?
India controlling global cricket and sidelining Pakistanis will lead to Pakistan using nukes lol?
I actually don’t care all that much about cricket. It’s a game.
If you turn off our water we will use nukes. If you put the state in existential danger we will use nukes. If we lose territory we will use nukes.
This is all publicly stated nuclear doctrine–stated by Lt. Kidwai years ago. Look it up.
But we bombed you and you didn’t use nukes.
We released water and you didn’t use nukes.
Take it up with Lt. Kidwai.
The nuclear bomb is not just for decoration. Don’t test us.
It is
how are you ‘deterring’ Indian hegemony? Last I checked Both Iran and Afghanistan have better relations with India than with the Pakistani state. And these are ‘muslim’ countries. Yes, the Chinese Communist party uses Pakistan to needle India, but what it extracts in return in terms of economic dominance is going to continue to play out for decades.
Nukes are useless status symbols at this point. India calls the shots in South Asia, including in Pakistan, where it can literally bomb airbases, target terrorists not just with drones and missiles, but with “unknown gunmen” in Karachi and elsewhere.
You are living under Indian hegemony. You just don’t want to acknowledge it.
“brother” spends his time watching indian dramas on amazon prime india and writing reviews on them.
We are not living under Indian hegemony. You all were forced into a ceasefire in four days flat. “Operation Sindoor” is “still ongoing” is an Indian fig life for domestic consumption. Also “Pakistan nay ultay hum pay hamala kar diya” was an absurd comment. You cannot attack a sovereign country and expect them not to respond.
“India’s Show of Petty Dominance in Cricket Administration Dulls Its Best Diplomatic Tool” by Sarayu Pani
https://thewire.in/south-asia/india-pakistan-cricket-bcci-diplomacy-shaking-hands
Older generations didn’t grow up with such huge Ind-Pak disparity so disdain isn’t there.
New gen looks down on Pakistan as a smaller poorer country.
The author of this article is a millennial (as am I). She just happens to be a left-leaning Indian with sensible views.
She was born in the 80s. I am talking more about the gen born in the mid 90s and later.
oh, god!! we are not bothered with pakistan.
pakistan is at most a punjab, haryana and western u p issue.
the ordinary muslim on the street is not bothered with ummah etc. pakistan and palestine are issues just to pin prick chav hindus. nothing more.